Shamrock teaches Marines how to be the world's most dangerous men

[Sayeret]

Susanville resident Ken Shamrock shared some of the hand-to-hand combat techniques he's learned and perfected over the years with U.S. Marine Corps instructors during an Aug. 17 visit to the Martial Arts Center of Excellence in Quantico, Va.

By Sam Williams
Sports Editor

Shamrock, a four-time mixed martial arts world champion who was dubbed “The World's Most Dangerous Man” after winning the first Ultimate Fighting Championship title in the 1980s, said he wants to give back to the soldiers who are helping to protect our freedom.

“This is probably one of the best things I've ever been involved with,” Shamrock said. “I'm one of the first instructors in the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCAMAP). I teach the instructors and then they teach the Marines.”

Shamrock taught his first clinic in Okinawa in 2001 before the Sept. 11 attacks. Since then he's led a number of clinics at Okinawa and Virginia.

Of course, Shamrock said there's a world of difference between fighting in a ring and fighting for your life in hand-to-hand combat.

“The techniques have to be adapted to fit their needs,” Shamrock said. “The Marines are more in real life. When we fight in the UFC, it's on a nice clean mat. When the Marines fight, they're in the dirt, and it's not quite the same when bombs are going off and bullets are flying over your head. From the time you engage to the time you finish has got to be 3 to 5 seconds. You don't have much time. You either throw the opponent down or take them down with a body throw, and once they hit the ground, immediately snap the neck or knock them out. It's going to be clench, take down and finish quickly.”

For the full story, see the Sept. 20 Lassen County Times.

http://www.lassennews.com/News_Story.edi?sid=2857

[Midav]

Ken Shamrock is bad ass! Glad he's helping our guys out!!! woot

[Sayeret]

Ken Shamrock is bad ass! Glad he's helping our guys out!!! woot

If like that article, you should read this:



Frank Shamrock Real Fights

"...Frank
I have, I've been in two altercations that I could not avoid.

Q
Could you describe them for us?

Frank
The first one, I was actually at the UFC in Birmingham, Alabama, and one of the fighter's corner men threw a hamburger at me and just wanted to fight me, so I did what all good fighters do; I ran, and I said please leave me alone, and he just kept pushing and coming and coming, my friends tried to stop him and he wouldn't stop, I kept scooting around and getting away and saying, hey what's the deal, and he finally grabbed me, I couldn't get away, and at that point I finally had to do something, he grabbed part of my shirt and I did the old hockey move, took my head back out and he's standing there with two handfuls of shirt and I threw about 20 right hands in his face. Then it was over. He went down hard.

Q
Tell us about the other incident?

Frank
The second one was a Home Depot in LA, I was standing in line and a guy just cuts in a head of me and puts his stuff on the counter, and I said, hey dude, the line's back there, and he said yeah whatever, and he just stayed there. Anyway, I tried talking to him a few more times and he just told me to **** off. Anyway, I apologized to the people around me, I just had one item, he goes out, I follow him out to his car, I didn't want any trouble but I just wanted him to get it, so I tell him that his actions weren't very nice, he said, look man, I told you to **** off, get out of here, (he made a move) I defended myself with a front kick to the stomach, he bent over, then I kneed him in the face, he lifted his head up and I got him with my right hand, and his face just exploded. So he falls on the ground, reaches into his back pocket then pulls out this huge knife, and he's just about to throw it at me, and like any good fighter, I RAN…I just ran around, back into the store, and ran out the back door and drove home..."

[Midav]

IMO he did the smart things if true.

He's already proven what he really can do.

[ABNINF]

And anybody with experience will tell you the same thing, cause it's not like Steven Segal, and you can just disarm a guy with a knife, cause odds are you're gonna get cut. If somebody pulls a knife on me, and I don't have something bigger, I'm gonna run too.

[St Fubar]

Is it just my imagination, or is the "run away" tactic slightly less suited for marines than it is for ordinary people? ;) Wouldn't they benefit more from being taught "How to defend yourself against armed assault" as the title of a certain book says? Shamrock practically admits that it's not his area of expertise.

ABNINF,
Had that problem once. Would have ran, if I would have had any reasonable chance of getting away. Didn't even try, took the knife away from the guy that was waving it at me and threw it as far as I could. Hell, most people who pull knives don't have any idea of how to use them.

[pathfinder82]

Seems to me Ive seen Shamrock get his ass handed to him a few more times than he'd like.

[supercontra]

He still got his ass handed to him by Tito

[FallenAngel]

And anybody with experience will tell you the same thing, cause it's not like Steven Segal, and you can just disarm a guy with a knife, cause odds are you're gonna get cut. If somebody pulls a knife on me, and I don't have something bigger, I'm gonna run too.

Rule #1 of a knife fight- You're going to get cut. Its unavoidable. Now, if you know where you can take a cut or two without bleeding out or something, then you've got a fighting chance. If you know what you're doing (and it helps if the other guy doesnt) it only takes a few seconds to disarm someone if they have a knife.

Course, I wouldn't suggest trying it.

[magicpie]

"the world's most dangerous men"

lol typical

[supercontra]

Frank > Ken > Kimo > Tank

[mudbunny]

Who was the guy, in one of the first UFC's, who came to the ring with a giant cross on his back? That guy was pretty hardcore too.

[*Teryan*]

Gracie > all

[Midav]

Shamrock > anyone posting in this thread
;)

[California Joe]

I don't know. If I was an 18 year old kid and I had a chance to get trained in unarmed combat a little by a guy that knows how to fight dirty what harm could it do.

[ibstolidude]

He still got his ass handed to him by Tito
Ken, yes; Frank, no.

[Thor]

http://urban.hunter.cuny.edu/~olivenci/shamrock2.jpg

He's probably already a member of mp.net..

[Abolith]

I don't know. If I was an 18 year old kid and I had a chance to get trained in unarmed combat a little by a guy that knows how to fight dirty what harm could it do.


exactly! so what if he isn't the absolute best anymore, he still knows how to get the job done fast, and I don't see any other UFC or MMA fighters jumping to help the Marines.

[NewsMan]

I wouldn't want to fight him.

[Sayeret]

Is it just my imagination, or is the "run away" tactic slightly less suited for marines than it is for ordinary people? ;) Wouldn't they benefit more from being taught "How to defend yourself against armed assault" as the title of a certain book says? Shamrock practically admits that it's not his area of expertise.

ABNINF,
Had that problem once. Would have ran, if I would have had any reasonable chance of getting away. Didn't even try, took the knife away from the guy that was waving it at me and threw it as far as I could. Hell, most people who pull knives don't have any idea of how to use them.

Perhaps the person you had to deal with didn't know how to use a knife but it takes a lot more skill to disarm someone using a knife than to cut or stabbed by the person with the knife. It's not easy to disarm most people with knives.

[Paracaidista]

time to get the old chainmall back ;)

Seriously, I remember listening to my father about how to engage someone with a knife (say dagger or bayonet). Well an answer was to get a 'soft' shield as soon as possible, such as a sweater wrapped around an arm (if given enough warning), or even a book or equivalent. That's it something enough to block or deflect a blow while punching back. But everything depends on the skills of the attacker and how his initial attack is performed (swing or punch).

For the marines I'll suggest more bayonet-on-rifle training first.

[Ratamacue]

For the marines I'll suggest more bayonet-on-rifle training first.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain that the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program includes fighting with your rifle and/or bayonet, knives, etc., not just unarmed combat.

[Paracaidista]

I believe knives/bayonet combat training is standard for the armed forces in most countries, the USMC is not exception (I hope). The question is to what level this skill is mastered.

[nagant_m44]

Gracie > all

Sakuraba>Gracies (except Rickson, since he retired.)

Just look at the record.

[Beppo]

In related news, the Gracies teach the Ranger Regiment.

[Wolf]

In his day Ken Shamrock was an awesome fighter.

I doubt it does any harm to learn the sought of techniques they talk about in the article but in real life I doubt they'd ever really be used. I mean imagine in the heat of battle trying to "take a guy down to the ground with a throw" it's just not going to happen soldiers are generally too hyped up to be able to pull off that kind of manouver.

The way it's going to be is shoot the guy, if you cant shoot him, stick him with your bayonet, if you can't stick him with your bayonet, hit him with your rifle, if you cant hit him with your rifle well something has seriously gone wrong!! and then it's simply absolute violence till the bastard is dead!

This would more likely be in the form of punching the guy to the floor then kicking and stomping him to death, nothing fancy but it'll get the job done more effectively than trying to grapple with someone (especially when they could very well be bigger and stronger than you).

Maybe the US marines should look up a guy called "Spud" Ely to teach them what to do when fighting hand to hand. I'm reading a book of his in which he describes an incident during the Falklands War when he jumped on and Argy soldier and head butted him to death. He served with the 2nd Battalion the Parachute Regiment during that campaign and certainly knew how to get the job done when it came to the crunch.

Also while I'm on the subject of doing what you have to to survive I saw a program recently on the SS in which one of the German SS soldiers told how a Russian soldier had over run his position and had knocked him to the ground, he said the Russian was huge and too powerful to push off him, so he reached up grabbed his head and bit through the Russians throat, now that is hardcore!

[California Joe]

Look up the thread on Michael Yon and his blog. Sgt Prosser........

[Ratamacue]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of MCMAP is that a great deal of the actual moves taught in MCMAP are more non-lethal, i.e. choke-holds and whatnot so they have more options when taking down civilians during peacekeeping and the like. The real value for a combat situation is not the moves they're taught, but the sense of pride and natural aggressiveness it brings out within Marines.