Now Canada wants to sue US Gun Makers

[nognig]

Martin to press Rice to help stop U.S gun smuggling

Alexander Panetta
National Post (http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=582c92c0-c274-463c-93b1-70be7d6e7a5a)

October 25, 2005

CREDIT: Canadian Press

OTTAWA -- Prime Minister Paul Martin says the Americans have an obligation to help stop the smuggling of guns into Canada.

Martin made the comment Monday as his government prepares a series of gun-control initiatives aimed at curbing a wave of violence in Toronto. Those measures, which sources say could include suing U.S. weapons manufacturers, will be announced next month. But the prime minister used a visit by U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to press the issue immediately.

He said the Americans expect Ottawa to help keep their borders secure and Canada expects the same in return.

"The Americans ask us to do things in terms of the border; I think there's an obligation on their side to work with us to prevent gun-smuggling into Canada," Martin told a news conference.

The prime minister said up to half the gun crimes in Canada involve weapons smuggled from the United States.

One federal source said the government could file lawsuits against gun manufacturers when they lose track of those weapons.

"If (gunmaker) Smith & Wesson says to us, 'Well, we're not responsible for tracking the weapons once they leave our factory' - that's not good enough guys," said the official.

"At some point in time there's a breach.

"These guns aren't ending up in the hands of folks in Canada by accident. So the question is where did this thing fall apart?"

The official said Ottawa won't take kindly to the suggestion that the guns are being stolen: "If that's the case, start protecting your shipments. Get a Brinks truck."

But federal border agents say they're puzzled by attempts to blame the United States for Canadian gun crime.

They point out that the United States has agreed to open a Toronto office of its Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Department and has promised to share more ballistics data with Canadian authorities.

The national president of the Customs Excise Union said Canada should add border patrols and arm its agents - not point the finger southward.

"We find it difficult to understand why we would count on another country (to stop gun-smuggling) for us," said Ron Moran.

"There's a series of shortfalls on the Canadian side that need to be addressed."

Moran said half the illegal guns in Canada are stolen in Canada, and half are smuggled from south of the border - hardly the Americans' fault.

U.S. ambassador David Wilkins has also called such criticism unfair and officials at the U.S. embassy repeated their position.

But one senior federal official said Canada is only doing the same thing the U.S. does when it's unhappy with Canadian public policy.

"The U.S. doesn't hesitate to speak out about our domestic policies where they feel they have an interest at stake - such as combatting (marijuana) grow ops (and) defence spending," he said.

"Fair enough. By the same logic, we will not hesitate to point out that gun crime is an issue of growing concern to Canadians."

The federal government earmarked $433 million over five years for border security in the last federal budget.

That will pay for 270 more border guards - including an 11-member special unit responsible for gun-smuggling investigations.

Martin spoke amid concern about continuing gun violence in Toronto.

Another three men were killed in gun attacks on the weekend - bringing the year's homicide total to 64, with the number of deaths by firearms climbing to a record 44.

One senior Liberal source said political focus groups show gun violence is a front-centre issue for Toronto voters.

A federal election is only weeks or months away - and Toronto has more federal seats than any other city in the country.

The Conservatives dismissed Martin's tough talk as domestic politics designed to gain votes in Toronto.

"I know that this guy governs completely by polls and reacts to whatever the issue of the day is," said Tory deputy leader Peter MacKay.

"But I think he's got enough on his plate that he should be raising (with Rice), most importantly softwood lumber."


What a joke. Why should US gun makers be liable when someone legally buys a gun in the US, then smuggles it into Canada?

NN

[nognig]

Here is what the Deputy Prime Minster had to say 2 months ago:



"First of all, we have no evidence there are more guns being smuggled into the country now than ever before," Ms. McLellan said. "Sometimes people easily blame the United States for a smuggling of guns. That too is a simplistic response." -- Deputy PM Anne McLellan, Edmonton Journal, August 25th, 2005

"Regardless of what their domestic gun laws are state by state, they have taken for years a very, very tough line, one of the toughest in the world in relation to guns being smuggled into their country or out of their country." -- Deputy PM Anne McLellan, Edmonton Journal, August 25th, 2005


Link (http://www.stephentaylor.ca/archives/000431.html)

Hmm.....

NN

[Geezah]

Here is what the Deputy Prime Minster had to say 2 months ago:



"First of all, we have no evidence there are more guns being smuggled into the country now than ever before," Ms. McLellan said. "Sometimes people easily blame the United States for a smuggling of guns. That too is a simplistic response." -- Deputy PM Anne McLellan, Edmonton Journal, August 25th, 2005

"Regardless of what their domestic gun laws are state by state, they have taken for years a very, very tough line, one of the toughest in the world in relation to guns being smuggled into their country or out of their country." -- Deputy PM Anne McLellan, Edmonton Journal, August 25th, 2005


Link (http://www.stephentaylor.ca/archives/000431.html)

Hmm.....

NN

So the Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister can't seem to find any common ground on the issue?????????

[nognig]

So the Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister can't seem to find any common ground on the issue?????????

No I think it's more along the line of the Deputy PM is being honest, and the PM is thinking about getting more votes.

The US is likely to tell Canada to take care of their own backyard. So the PM wins either way. He can tell Canadians that he "tried" to stop guns from entering Canada, but the US won't play along.

NN

[Geezah]

According to the Toronto Star, the Liberal government is set to announce new and tougher laws to fight crime. In addition to proposed new legislation the federal government is also considering suing U.S. gun manufactures for the fact that some of their firearms are smuggled into Canada and used by Canadians to kill other Canadians. Toronto police have estimated that 50 percent of the guns that are found on the streets of Toronto have their origins south of the border.

The government intends to sue the manufacturers both in the United States and in Canada if the company has assets in this country. If the government intends to sue in the U.S. they better be quick about it. Last Thursday Congress passed, and George Bush is expected to sign, a law prohibiting people from suing manufacturers of guns because their products work as they are intended to work.

There is no doubt that the Liberals are in full election mode and an election is expected to be called within 30 days of the final report of Mr. Justice Gomery that is scheduled to be released on February 1. So this is the time that the Liberals start to promise everything to everybody as a prelude to the vote next spring. And the Libs are under more pressure this time around because of the negative fallout that will undoubtedly come from Gomery’s report. For Paul Martin fans that may be wavering this time around, Martin will be seen on being tough on the United States in the wake of that country’s refusal to abide by a NAFTA appeal panel’s ruling on softwood lumber that was favourable to Canada.

And the notion of suing American companies will play well with the not insignificant anti-American wing of the Liberal Party as well as those voters who are undecided between the Liberals and the NDP. Although Carolyn Parrish is gone for good from the Liberal Party fold, the good fight against those dastardly Yanks has to be kept up. At least suing American gun manufacturers is more grown up than calling Americans names or stomping on a George W. Bush doll on national television as Parrish had done.

It is hard to see how American companies who sell a legal product in the United States can be held responsible for their product getting past our customs officers. Beefing up the border might be a better solution but it won’t get as many votes as blaming the Americans will.

The proposals that were given to the Toronto Star seem strangely silent about the other 50 percent of the guns that presumably have Canadian origins. Oops – almost forgot the gun registry. The billion dollar boondoggle was supposed to stop all the violence that is currently taking place. But it seems that the bad guys aren’t registering their guns; they should be put in jail. So to all those who will get wasted in the weeks and months ahead on the streets of Toronto or Vancouver by a Canadian gun, looks like you’re out of luck. So sorry.

Along with blaming the Americans, there are other proposals to fight violent crime. It is being proposed that minimum sentences for the use of a firearm in the commission of a crime be increased from one year to a whopping two years. It’s as if someone will risk an extra year in jail (or realistically, 3-6 months) but not two years. This solution is too silly even for the soft on crime Liberals. And increasing minimum sentences will be a change from the mantra that Justice Minister Irwin Cotler has been constantly telling the unwashed masses that minimum sentences don’t work. Considering these sentences are often plea-bargained away, of course they don’t work.

Another proposal calls for the prohibition for possessing or owning a firearm be increased from the current 10 years to life!!! That’s sure to stop the killing. The reality is that many people who are found in possession of illegal firearms are already subject to a prohibition order. Ten years is long enough – most of these guys don’t live that long anyway. Increasing the prohibition to life sounds good but will have no practical effect; which is the way of course that the Liberals want it.

And of course there is something in the proposals for those such as Toronto Mayor David Miller and Police Chief Bill Blair who believe in the group hug theory of fighting crime--more money for education. What are they going to be teaching--that shooting people is wrong?

These proposed changes may improve the Liberals’ electoral fortunes but they will do nothing to reduce the violent crime on our streets. What we need is more policing and substantially longer sentences for no other reason than to keep some of the scum off the streets for a longer period of time.

Blaming the United States is nothing more than political claptrap. If the government was half as good at fighting crime as they are at fighting elections, Canada would be a much safer country.

Link (http://www.canadafreepress.com/2005/weinreb102505.htm)

More on the story......

[joe mama]

We really should have nuked those F'ing Canucks when they bombed the Baldwin brothers...BLAME CANADA!!!

[ed316]

The elections are coming up,so this is nothing more than playing the
anti-US card to pander for votes.

[ramy]

The elections are coming up,so this is nothing more than playing the
anti-US card to pander for votes.

+1
My govnt is full of asshats.

[ed316]

+1
My govnt is full of asshats.

...........and mine also:)

[wiking]

The elections are coming up,so this is nothing more than playing the
anti-US card to pander for votes.

And the "OMFG!!!1111 Guns are scary" card.
Bloody wankers who spend all day wacking each other off and humping each other legs instead of doing something usefull. That's politicians for you. p-)

[Para]

Now if cigarette manufactures can get sued then why not gun makers.

[ed316]

Now if cigarette manufactures can get sued then why not gun makers.

Why won't Canada try to sue their own gun makers.......wait there isn't one.

[joe mama]

Now if cigarette manufactures can get sued then why not gun makers.

Well, the lawsuits against gun companies usually deal with a product that was legally made by that company, with no attempt to hide how dangerous that product can be, and no attempt to make people get addicted to that product secretly (two of the big complaints against the cigarette companies) and then legally sold by that company. Just what exactly did the gun company do wrong? Make a dangerous product? Lots of companies make dangerous products that can be used safely.
If the person/company who legally bought the guns from the maker then turns around and breaks the law (sells them illegally, for example) or behaves irresponsibly (loses them, for example), how is that within the control of the gun company? Should Ford/GM/Chrysler/etc be used by the families of drunk driving vicitms? If a gun shop, for example, is breaking the law and/or "losing" weapons, then the ATF should pull their license, and THEN, IF a gun company still sold to them, the company could, arguably, be at fault.
By the way, if people have evidence that cigarette companies did something illegal (such as hiding the dangers or making them more addictive in secret or similar) then perhaps they should be able to be sued. But if you want to sue because you got cancer from smoking, and warning labels have been on the packs for 40 years, ummmmmmmmmmmmm, that's crap. YOU'RE the one that picked up those cigarettes and ignored the warning. I'm pretty sure Joe Camel didn't force you to do it...

People seem to confuse not being able to sue Smith & Wesson because some gangbanger got a Smith illegally or because someone pulled the trigger and the gun functioned as it was designed and fired and someone innocent got shot with banning all lawsuits against gun companies. I've yet to hear anything that says that if the product was defective (because the company was negligent for example) or the company broke the law (sold to an unlicensed dealer, for example) they can't be sued. The protection these bills try to pass is to avoid bullsh*t suits against companies following the law and making products that perform exactly as designed.

[Field_Gunner]

all of this due to a rise of gang violence in toronto... whats the death toll for this year up to now like 50? they should take a look at a same size city in the states that probably has more than 200 gun related murders a year.

next eletion I'm voting to get these liberal panzies out of office....like I've been doing for the past 8 years!

[wholagun]

im all for a tougher Canadian stance towards the US, i support stirring up **** with the US. Im of the opinion this is to create a stink in the US and maybe scare some Americans and make them believe that Canada does have balls. What'd really piss of the US is if we taxed them on the oil and gas they buy from us. I think it's all connected to the free trade issue.

[ed316]

im all for a tougher Canadian stance towards the US, i support stirring up **** with the US. Im of the opinion this is to create a stink in the US and maybe scare some Americans and make them believe that Canada does have balls. What'd really piss of the US is if we taxed them on the oil and gas they buy from us. I think it's all connected to the free trade issue.

When Canada rattles their dinner knife we yawnrofl

[wholagun]

When Canada rattles their dinner knife we yawnrofl

you really under estimate the power Canada has if it used energy - however we won't.

We are America's biggest supplier of energy, if we tax America it will only make prices at the pumps and for heating homes that much higher. We have the largest oil and gas reserves on the planet.

if you come from the southern US you won't realize just how importatn Canada is as a trading partner then if you live in the Northern States. However I dont'want this to become a Canada vs US issue, especially since im one of the few Canadians on this site that supports a tougher stance against the US.

[ed316]

you really under estimate the power Canada has if it used energy - however we won't.

We are America's biggest supplier of energy, if we tax America it will only make prices at the pumps and for heating homes that much higher. We have the largest oil and gas reserves on the planet.

if you come from the southern US you won't realize just how importatn Canada is as a trading partner then if you live in the Northern States. However I dont'want this to become a Canada vs US issue, especially since im one of the few Canadians on this site that supports a tougher stance against the US.

I don't have anything against Canucks.

[wholagun]

I don't have anything against Canucks.

I never said you nor any other Yanks do.

[Geezah]

joe you hit the nail on the head.

[wholagun]

all of this due to a rise of gang violence in toronto... whats the death toll for this year up to now like 50? they should take a look at a same size city in the states that probably has more than 200 gun related murders a year.

next eletion I'm voting to get these liberal panzies out of office....like I've been doing for the past 8 years!

the reason there is less gun deaths is b/c we don't have the same gun laws as in the US (thank God). The reason people are pissed off is b/c guns deaths were low in Canada and Toronto, but now recently over the past few years they've been going up as have the number of hand guns.

[joe mama]

the reason there is less gun deaths is b/c we don't have the same gun laws as in the US (thank God). The reason people are pissed off is b/c guns deaths were low in Canada and Toronto, but now recently over the past few years they've been going up as have the number of hand guns.

So gun deaths are less because you don't have the same laws as the US, huh? Ok, have the laws changed? Because if they haven't, but the deaths go up, even though the laws haven't changed, then it isn't the laws, it's a little more complicated than that...

[ArmedPacifist]

Why won't Canada try to sue their own gun makers.......wait there isn't one.


This has nothing to do with the thread, but buddy your averaging...

Total Posts: 406 (64.98 posts per day)


Stop wasting ****ing bandwidth and not comment on every damn thread you see to raise your post count.

[v-twin]

heh, welcome to Canada, the land where we can sue the producers for the stupidity of the end-users.

Yeah, now the Provincial Governments can sue tobacco companies to get back the money they're spending on smoking-related illnesses, forgetting that they already have HUGE taxes on tobacco.

This is one weird country :S

[mi35d]

And the US supplies Canada with a good portion of its food supply and raw goods. Its a trade partnership. To play the "we'll cut off XXX" is assinine.

[EvanL]

And the US supplies Canada with a good portion of its food supply and raw goods. Its a trade partnership. To play the "we'll cut off XXX" is assinine.
what food supplies do you guys supply us with?
most of our wheat and meat is sent down to you.
you guys supply us with more raw goods like metals.. not foods.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

And the US supplies Canada with a good portion of its food supply and raw goods. Its a trade partnership. To play the "we'll cut off XXX" is assinine.

Trade partnership eh? Thats why we pay a tax on sending you good wood (you know the stuff that doesnt warp) to build your house with, because your contractors complained (saying companies were government subsidized) because it hurt there buisness. Despite many rulings from NAFTA and the WTO mostly ruling in Canada's favour that the tax is retarded, its blantantly ignored on the American side and buisness goes on as usuall for them.

This has continued over 10 years, turning some towns into ghost towns and effecting many Canadians including myself. Enough is enough, stir the **** pot, its about time we did something to return the favour.

[Field_Gunner]

just wait till the yanks find out we have over 10% of the worlds oil supply then the action goes from iraq to us...by the way, I love canadian beef!

[ed316]

This has nothing to do with the thread, but buddy your averaging...

Total Posts: 406 (64.98 posts per day)


Stop wasting ****ing bandwidth and not comment on every damn thread you see to raise your post count.

Wow a mathmatician!

[ArmedPacifist]

Wow a mathmatician!

That information is conveniently provided under your profile to automatically let you know when you need to shut the **** up for a little while.

[ed316]

That information is conveniently provided under your profile to automatically let you know when you need to shut the **** up for a little while.

Didn't realize you were the Queen bitch of the site, but now I know.