Euro Immigration Position-

[BMF_EOD]

I have a legitimate question that I would like to discuss in a mature & intellectual (no flames required) manor.

For the Europpeans on this board:

What are your feelings towards immigration into your country; specifically in regards to immingrants from North Africa, Pakistan, and predominately Muslim countries?

I ask becuase my country (America) was built by the hard work and dedication of immigrants. Unfortunately, world events lead me to wish we could severly restrict U.S. immigration. I am somewhat ashamed at this reality and have mixed emotions when I read the poem below.

(The following poem was written to help raise funds for the Statue of Liberty)

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to
breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming
shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-lost to me
- Emma Lazarus, "The New Colossus," 1883

[stephane from Paris]

I remember the reply of the french far right leader to a US journalist who ask: "why are you againts imigration , here in the US looks what it has done"

"Well, Miss, we europeans are like americans indians natives when they saw imigrants! At the beginning they were friendly, but at the end they killed their culture, their people and took their homeland!"

If this guy isn't a democrat and a nice guy, he's not totally wrong.
Too much imigration from the same side don't do better country but a country with 2 strong cultures, and sadly satTV and religions enforced the "nationnalism" of new imigrants and their sons and the sons of their sons!
Ethnics wars like in Balkans is the way we goes if we don't act now.
5 to 6% of muslims isn't a problem but now in France we have 9% of muslims (and thousands of illegals who comes every years) and more and more don't accept europeans way of life as a model!
And the wars in muslims World done the rise of a muslim nationnalist!

[tsuri]

We don´t really have problems with Muslims as such. Those from the Balkans,Turkey,Iran, Afghanistan etc are usually very well integrated into our society. There are however groups of Muslims, mainly Turkish, who oppose our ways of life,don´t speak our language etc.
Usually they have poor education, along with their children and isolate themselves from our communities. They have lived here for generations and yet they need translation everywhere.
Turkish Newspapers,Turkish TV in Cable and on Sat only reinforce that.
But they are not so many that they cannot be dealt with.

Other Immigrants are usually no Problem.
Except maybe for the Russia Germans who are all socialized like russians and so behave very strangely.

I think we need no further Immigration to cope with population shrink. We have to make procreation more worthwile and import a few highly educated specialists.

[stephane from Paris]

France= 5 to 6 millions of muslims
UK=Germany= 2 to 3 millions of muslims
And germans are 80 millions, we're just 62 millions!

The problem isn't imigrants but the number of imigrants from the same origin!

[Weasel]

France= 5 to 6 millions of muslims
UK=Germany= 2 to 3 millions of muslims
And germans are 80 millions, we're just 62 millions!

The problem isn't imigrants but the number of imigrants from the same origin!
What do you fear?

[Wodan]

I think we need no further Immigration to cope with population shrink. We have to make procreation more worthwile and import a few highly educated specialists.

Very true:

1. we cant replace all people by immigrants, the masses that would be needed arent integrateable, so we need to replace labors by procreation.

2. all immigrants that are bad educated, we dont need, they will just cause even more costs (either they take a germans job, which means we have one german more to finance with our welfare system, or they dont get a job byself, and we have one more foreigners to finance by our welfare system)
OR we have to pay much money to educate them, which could be the same way be done with our own children.


3. all immigrants that are good educated, were expensive for their own nations, and we somehow steal them from their own nation, so there j ust the bad educated people stay, how shall those nations develop? How shall they develop if their whole elite comes to us, on short term, it will make that impossible, and on long term, if we do this on long term even more, cuz there is also a genetical factor on intellgence, all intellgent persons come to us, get part of our gene pool, and the stupid ones stay there, so we will have highly intellgent people in Europe, and retarteds in the underdeveloped world, thats a modern form of colonialism!

4. Immigrants have a higher unemployment rate, than germans, and several times higher rate of people taking "social welfare", so in average the immigrants take more/bring less, than the average german. (and dont come with this ****, they do jobs germans wouldnt do, tell me WHICH job, besides of working for McDonalds, what would also be done by germans, like germans work in super markets or in regular restaurants, McDonalds would pay better, if it had to.)

5. Immigrants have a much higher crime rate, 80% of criminals in youth-prisons are foreigners, also offical statistics, also 80% of organized crime is done by immigrants.

6. There are some immigrants who dont want to integrate, build their own ghettos, dotn want to accept german as the leading culture, dont want to learn our language etc.



My opinion:

Foreigners that are criminal, unwilling to accept the german leadingculture, unwilling to work, can be replaced by german employees that are as same good educated should be put out of our country, same for foreigners that already have our citizenship, as at least parts of the conservative party wants it:
http://www.taz.de/pt/2005/09/13/a0065.nf/text

[stephane from Paris]

What do you fear?


We took several centuries to stop the control of religion on the state and on our life, now we have a massive imigration that don't accept secularism and wants building a community in the community! The problem is their number!
I spent 20 years of my life in a hot subburn of Paris where europeans were the minority, i saw and knows that their number will cause BIG problem is the future!
What do i fear? That my daughter have to be dress in sportwear like a boys to don't be call bitch by muslims in the street or in school like tons of europeans girls are treated now in some area.
To never have some charia laws in my country.
To save the identity and the culture of my fathers.

No problem with imigrants, no problems with muslims (our culture isn't better than their), i have a problem with NUMBER.
At this time we see the rise of muslim nationnalism, of black pride (black panthers view now come here) and it will give as a result the rise of european nationnalims and i don't want another Hitler in Europe.

[Sharp]

by muslim you mean arabs i'm sure? muslims is a big word, from wich nationality, exactly, would you say this?

stephane is true, and i will add one point : who burn or breaks the cars in the streets? who insult the police? always the same guys.......

And i would add, i think the problem is more biggest in France that anyother country, because a majority of this immigrants come from French countrys ... maroc... algeria... so they can stay here more easily

[Weasel]

@ stephane from Paris

I accept your worries about the future of your daughter. But I don´t share your fear of cultural problems. If french nationalism isn´t strong enough anymore to compete against foreign nationalities then the french nationality isn´t worth existing. You know what I mean? You french people are still the majority and you have better chances to develop your country than any other group inside France.

[Wodan]

Thread Date Comment
Euro Immigration Positio... 11-01-2005 04:53 PM go back to the Reich bunker...fuhrer


it says in the User control panel, why does somebody make such comments, and who is it, and why does the admin allow ops that are that much biased, and even show it so openly (their anti-european, anti-white agenda)

[roland]

France doesn't integrate immigrants.
France assimilate there sons.
That mean that after one generation, two max, except the color of skin, there is no more difference between French of different origines than between French of different region.
But for some reason, France largelly failed to assimilate the last wave of immigrant.
So we're having some "Communities", people who don't feel loyal for there own country that feel different because of there race or religion.
That's NOT acceptable.
So the door must remain closed as long as we wouldn't have assimilated the last wave of immigrant.
And by door closed, I mean closed. I'm affraid our politicians or other European partners don't realise how important it is. Carefull: The French don't want "communities" led by extremist clerics occupy parts of our land.

[Belrick]

Democracy will win in the end. If the Islam culture becomes the majority within France then stephanies daughter will be forced to wear a burkha.

However if Stephanie wants her daughter to wear what the hell she wants them she can either A: Breed like a mad thing. B: Use her democratic rights to put a limit on immigration.

Why is B: a bad thing? Why in modern times is it considered bad to protect your way of life? (culture). If all cultures are equal then why are you and I glad to be living in nations with a secular society and freedom of speech? Where our woman are mostly treated as equal to men?

[BMF_EOD]

So, if I am I understand correctly- the predominate opinion of the Europeans that responed is that: "imigration in their country needs serious re-evaluation" or something to that effect. More controls over who, and how many people are allowed in to your country?

If this is true I think it is pretty much on track with most Americans and further clouds my understanding of what exactly Muslim extremist think they are accomplishing with their actions.

[GermaniaInvicta]

We become extinct in our own lands by floods of immigrants from the south, so in future there will be no variety in white ppl, no more blonds, redheads, bruenettes and no more sparkling lite eyes, as we enjoy it today.
If immigration will last on for the next 50 years there will be no more blond people in about 200 hundred years from now on, redheads will be extinct some 50 years earlier, according to the WHO. The result of this process will be a uniform brown mass, thanks to over ass licking socialist pc maniacs.
He, at least they will reach their old aim of all ppl being equal.

As far as it concerns myself, I don't want get extinct and neither my dna.
I don't want a world where my children lack the opportunity to choose a blond blue eyed partner.

I'm not amused to be the last mohican.

[Weasel]

We become extinct in our own lands by floods of immigrants from the south, so in future there will be no variety in white ppl, no more blonds, redheads, bruenettes and no more sparkling lite eyes, as we enjoy it today.
If immigration will last on for the next 50 years there will be no more blond people in about 200 hundred years from now on, redheads will be extinct some 50 years earlier, according to the WHO. The result of this process will be a uniform brown mass, thanks to over ass licking socialist pc maniacs.
He, at least they will reach their old aim of all ppl being equal.

As far as it concerns myself, I don't want get extinct and neither my dna.
I don't want a world where my children lack the opportunity to choose a blond blue eyed partner.

I'm not amused to be the last mohican.
You prefer tall, strong, blue eyed and blond Germans with pure DNA?

[Esszett]

I have a legitimate question that I would like to discuss in a mature & intellectual (no flames required) manor.

For the Europpeans on this board:

What are your feelings towards immigration into your country; specifically in regards to immingrants from North Africa, Pakistan, and predominately Muslim countries?

I ask becuase my country (America) was built by the hard work and dedication of immigrants. Unfortunately, world events lead me to wish we could severly restrict U.S. immigration. I am somewhat ashamed at this reality and have mixed emotions when I read the poem below.

(The following poem was written to help raise funds for the Statue of Liberty)

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to
breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming
shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-lost to me
- Emma Lazarus, "The New Colossus," 1883

To get back to the original issue:
I have to agree with Wodan here.
The difference between the immigrants who came to the USA in the past days and the ones who come to Europe nowadays is the immigrants who come to Europe nowadays are not needed.
In the past days the USA desperately needed immigrants to settle in their huge land. They also needed "manpower" for their industry.
After WW II the Germans were in need of "manpower" too. The booming German industry desperately needed more workers. So they "imported" many so-called "guest-workers" from Portugal, Italy, Greece and other European countries and later from Turkey.
Many of them stayed in Germany or at least developed strong ties to Germany. All in all, it was a win-win situation, the foreign workers who couldn't get a job in their countries were deployed in Germany and sent money to their families or brought them with them and the Geman industry had the workers it needed.
At this time this wasn't much of a problem since there was more work than workers and the cultural clutch wasn't that big (at least not concerning the European "guest-workers").
Nowadays the situation is totally different.
There is a high grade of unemployment in many European countries. And the reason is not just that the unemployed in western Europe don't want to work. The most of the unemployed here are very unhappy with their situation. Even if they can live a pretty comfortable life even without a job, many of them feel it is a shame for a healthy person not to work.
The unemployed in western Europe are mostly those who learned jobs which don't require a high grade of education since these jobs are more and more transferred to countries with extremely low salaries (thanks to globalization).
The immigrants who come here now are no "guest-workers". They come here as refugees. In most cases just refugees from the very bad living situations in the countries they come from. There is no work here for them. We don't even have enough jobs here for many Germans, who still are very much better educated than the vast majority of these immigrants.

So what are we supposed to do? Our social systems, that make sure even the ones who are not lucky enough to find a job can live a decent life and of which we've been ever so proud, are about to break down.

Should we get more people who will not be able to work here?
Should we get rid of our idea of social capitalism and shut down our social security systems?
Should we lower the minimum-wages to be able to compete with countries in Asia (which would turn our country partially in a third world country and would cause many social problems maybe even riots)?

IMO there is only one sane decision to make: limit immigration very strictly.
Maybe we should do more to increase the quality of living in the countries the immigrants come from.
And NO, by that I don't mean we should just give their governments more money so their corrupt leaders get richer and richer and their power is even strengthened.

[Esszett]

Oh, and to make sure noone gets it wrong:
The above statement I made has nothing to do with racism.
I am very well aware of the fact that something like "pure northern blood" or "pure German blood"/ DNA/ whatever doesn't exist.

Even though I am blond and blue-eyed.p-)

[GermaniaInvicta]

Sic est, a clear analyse of the work sector in Germany and western Europe.

[tsuri]

If immigration will last on for the next 50 years there will be no more blond people in about 200 hundred years from now on
No you missed the point of the Study. Blonds will die out because the gene for blond hair is recessive.

[Wodan]

No you missed the point of the Study. Blonds will die out because the gene for blond hair is recessive.

yeah and only not-mixuring would protect it...

[Belrick]

Who cares? What has DNA got to do with culture anyway??? Even if your wife is black and your children appear black they still will be carrying 50% of your genes. Just as they would if theyd had a 'white' mother.

So why the fuss?

[tsuri]

yeah and only not-mixuring would protect it...

To prevent that you´d have to mate blondes specifically with blondes and ONLY blondes.
Eugenics to preserve a hair color?

[BMF_EOD]

To Esszett and the other Euro members that posted - thanks for sharing your insight. It's not far off what I had imagined (after living in Italy for 3 years).

Lastly I would like to say that my interest in immigration is purely related to my desire to preserve our "way of life" not our skin color. I seriously could care less what color your skin is, what country you are from etc.. if you come to my country adopt our way of life, and become a productive member of our society I will welcome you. If you want to change my country into your old one....don't bother coming.

It is interesting to me to see how closely the Euro-US views are on this subject.

[GermaniaInvicta]

Who cares? What has DNA got to do with culture anyway??? Even if your wife is black and your children appear black they still will be carrying 50% of your genes. Just as they would if theyd had a 'white' mother.

So why the fuss?

I care and most of you care if an endagered lemming species is dieing out on the north pole, Greenpeace and WWF are weeping around in world wide campaigns, but if people of mine kin are terminated it's ok, because it's their fate, instead we increase the speed and amount of this process by a murderous new culture of pc and forced mixing.

By the way, it would't certainly harm you to attend some genetic classes since it isn't that simple as you said. Yes, in this case my children would carry 50% of my genes, but they would't come to expression as high as 50% and in the next generation my gentics would even fade more.

[toki]

I care and most of you care if an endagered lemming species is dieing out on the north pole, Greenpeace and WWF are weeping around in world wide campaigns, but if people of mine kin are terminated it's ok, because it's their fate, instead we increase the speed and amount of this process by a murderous new culture of pc and forced mixing.

By the way, it would't certainly harm you to attend some genetic classes since it isn't that simple as you said. Yes, in this case my children would carry 50% of my genes, but they would't come to expression as high as 50% and in the next generation my gentics would even fade more.

Why do you bring the racial "issue" into this discussion. It's up to you who you mate. (forced mixing???) And has nothing to do with immigration. In your opinion the Lebensborn (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensborn)-project must have been a very good option.
And btw if you boast about taking genetic classes, homo sapiens is one species.

Could you just leave the racial crap out of a good discussion.

Btw i totally approve Esszett's post!

[GermaniaInvicta]

BTW if you boast about your education, than I must tell you that there are two species of homo sapiens, first the homo sapiens neanderthalensis and than there is the homo sapiens sapiens.
The next point is, starting reading what I wrote and leave thinking to horses they have bigger heads than you. I have never denied the fact that all existing homo sapiens today are one species.

In conclusion I have to tell you that the genetic pool of which I can choose my mate is getting smaller day by day.

[tsuri]

than I must tell you that there are two species of homo sapiens, first the homo sapiens neanderthalensis and than there is the homo sapiens sapiens.
Neanderthalensis is extinct. Or continues to live in us depending on who you believe.
So your little excursion is irrelevant.

[GermaniaInvicta]

The literacy is never irrelevant.

[Para]

No or little effort is made to control immigration with in Europe its self and this is only causing to fan the flames of discontent

[toki]

BTW if you boast about your education, than I must tell you that there are two species of homo sapiens, first the homo sapiens neanderthalensis and than there is the homo sapiens sapiens.
The next point is, starting reading what I wrote and leave thinking to horses they have bigger heads than you.I have never denied the fact that all existing homo sapiens today are one species.

In conclusion I have to tell you that the genetic pool of which I can choose my mate is getting smaller day by day.
v
v
I care and most of you care if an endagered lemming species is dieing out on the north pole, Greenpeace and WWF are weeping around in world wide campaigns, but if people of mine kin are terminated it's ok


You compared people of your skin being terminated to a species of lemmings being terminated.
Any further explanation?

Dude... it's all in your hand. Merry an "arian" girl and get happy, but don't speak up for others. It's pretty much your personal problem. I live in a free country and can mate whoever i want, i assume you, too.

Btw i know what homo sapiens neanderthalensis is. The first excavations are situated 10km from where i live. Neandertal (which still has the name) is part of a suburb of Düsseldorf.

No need to get further into your ideology. You just started to ruin a political discussion with your "biologic" explorations.

out

[roland]

Race is irrelevant as far as human is concerned: we are not dogs or horses.
There can be more genetic difference between a Scotish and an English than between an English and a Zulu.
What is relevant is culture.
I don't care, well in fact I'm curious, about foreign culture .. in foreign country. I believe of my country's culture superiority .. in my country.
The foreigners's chilrens should be educated according to French culture and there parent should make it the most easy possible.
If they don't agree they shouldn't come in the first place.

[Esszett]

Dude... it's all in your hand. Merry an "arian" girl and get happy, but don't speak up for others. It's pretty much your personal problem. I live in a free country and can mate whoever i want, i assume you, too.

No need to get further into your ideology. You just started to ruin a political discussion with your "biologic" explorations.

out

x 2

Well said.

[Mitch Rapp]

France= 5 to 6 millions of muslims
UK=Germany= 2 to 3 millions of muslims
And germans are 80 millions, we're just 62 millions!

The problem isn't imigrants but the number of imigrants from the same origin!

Those immigrants are like guests and they should obey the rules set by the host and owner of the house. I don't gather how they go to another place and try to establish their culture there. At the end of the day they are a MINORITY and should never forget that. The local authorities are also to blame because they didn't try enough to integrate the immigrants in their society. As a whole the French treat other nations not very good be they Algerians or Romanians. I guess too much national pride.

[GermaniaInvicta]

And btw if you boast about taking genetic classes, homo sapiens is one species.


You compared people of your skin being terminated to a species of lemmings being terminated.
Any further explanation?


And now you will tell me where I said that there is more than one species of homo sapiens today.




Dude... it's all in your hand. Merry an "arian" girl and get happy, but don't speak up for others. It's pretty much your personal problem. I live in a free country and can mate whoever i want, i assume you, too.



You are killing opportunities for future generations your selfishness. In few years from now on people won't have the possibilty to choose because the gen pool will be dried out. Even today it's hard to find a real blond mate.

[DeltaWhisky58]

WARNING

This thread is teetering on the brink at present, it is starting to get rather racial, and if this persists I will close/delete it - bring in back on topic NOW!

[BigBaribal]

What I read in this topic is just another example that words or concepts are soon to be replaced by facts.

[BigBaribal]

Mode off-topic on.


@Roland

About this:

There can be more genetic difference between a Scotish and an English than between an English and a Zulu.
What is relevant is culture.

It's a little bit off topic, but scientists, these days, are coming to a slightly different perception of the facts.

Some links from scientific or medical sources:

http://mednews.stanford.edu/releases/2005/january/racial-data.htm

http://www.princeton.edu/~amoroz/2005/03/family-tree-in-every-gene.html

http://flysci.com/article.asp?a=93&c=4


Mode off-topic off ;)

[Vorian]

You are killing opportunities for future generations your selfishness. In few years from now on people won't have the possibilty to choose because the gen pool will be dried out. Even today it's hard to find a real blond mate.

I can't believe what I am reading? Is it so important mate with blond girls? Btw you should know that gen pools are not dried out by mixtures between different kinds of people. Evolution needs this mix.
If you like only blondes good for you, there plenty of them up in Sweden :)

[BigBaribal]

Evolution needs this mix.

Not true.

Basically, a mix of 150 women and 150 men is enough to avoid any problems of consanguinity.

[Vorian]

Well, this completely off topic anyway.

[roland]

Mode off-topic on.


@Roland

About this:



It's a little bit off topic, but scientists, these days, are coming to a slightly different perception of the facts.

Some links from scientific or medical sources:

http://mednews.stanford.edu/releases/2005/january/racial-data.htm

http://www.princeton.edu/~amoroz/2005/03/family-tree-in-every-gene.html

http://flysci.com/article.asp?a=93&c=4


Mode off-topic off ;)

That's not my area of knowledge. i would have to work a lot to make my own opinion.
I prefer to stick with what I've been always taught: that race is not a relevant way to caracterize humans. Anyway, that's right according to my experience: I know some Arabs with french culture that are pefectly nice and rational people, Muslim like most French are Catholic: very moderately.
If one exist that's enough to prove it's possible.
In fact there is a lot but we never speak of them.
And the retarded of the suburb put shame on all there neighborhood and all suffer of that even those who try to make there life honestly and got discouraged.

A rotten socialist economy with high unemployment and a Republican school polluted by socialism don't help for sure.

Vive la Republique, Mort au socialisme.

[GermaniaInvicta]

Evolution needs this mix.
If you like only blondes good for you, there plenty of them up in Sweden :)

Go to Sweden and you will see whole cities are swamped by Arabs.

By the way there is a worm which is, as far as it conecerns genetic charts, 86% identic to an average male human.
What does this statistic say? Nothing.

[Wodan]

Go to Sweden and you will see whole cities are swamped by Arabs.

By the way there is a worm which is, as far as it conecerns genetic charts, 86% identic to an average male human.
What does this statistic say? Nothing.

men derive from worms