buff"Hoon".....he's shameless !

[Argyll]

This man needs beaten with an "serious attitude stick"

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-12985924,00.html

[marktigger]

wonder how cocky he'll be this afternoon when he meets the families of the 6 RMP guys that were killed in Iraq.

probably thinks he teflon like tony after hutton

[Argyll]

Same pompus arrogant bast*rd he was when he met Sgt Roberts's Widow

the man has no morals or shame at all

[Uncle Sam]

People are gonna start looking for a scapegoat

[cut]

bah, hopefully he'll step down after this inquiry, I bet Tony Blair's looking to get rid of him to distance him self from the WMD issue.

[DeltaWhisky58]

What a prick!

[Gringo]

Hoon is a f***ing coward who IMO shouldn't be cleared from that Hutton Report. He's an aggrogant pompous prick. And all that whitepaper ****, he stick it up his arse.

[Pille1234]

When they make Hoon the scape goat, Blair is off the hook again. It seems, Blair has seven lifes.

[jones]

A few words to sum up Hoon, useless pathetic arrogant C--T.

[Uncle Sam]

So I take it you guys really don't like "The Hoonster"

[usa320]

I dont know Hoon enough to comment, but i will make the statement that i think the witchunt needs to end. Firstly, there is still a chance that WMD of iraqi origin will be found- either in iraq, or in a third country. Secondly, instead of systematically hunting down people and taking things out on them, we should be spending the time and resources to analyze why and how our intelligence failed- if in fact it did. And instead of damage control, we should be supporting our troops and concentrating on making the future of iraq better.

[California Joe]

The Hoonstinian. I blame the British.

[Gringo]

The Hoonstinian. I blame the British.

What does that mean?

[Argyll]

320 you've obviously not been reading the reports about the Intel have you?
read the Mirage in the desert thread from Farmgirl,that'll open your eyes about so called Intelligence!

There is no witch hunt,Hoon as Sec.Of St.For Defence,has to accept responsibility of the British Operation......troops did not have the right kit,no kit,and in some case no weapons or ammo,and they were going to Fuc*ing war man!!!

This is the fuc*ing clown who leaped up and down shouting about WMD ready in 45 mins,and they sent British troops into Iraq with 1 fuc*ing Noddy suit!!.......If they did come under Chemical attack,they would have died in their thousands!!........you tell me that's a great Plan from a great Leader?
The whole of the MOD think tank are incompetent bumbling Pen pushing fuc*ing accountants,who go home and sleep with rent boys in silk sheets every night,whilst Soldier on the front line wonder where the Fuc* their Body Armour Plates are!..................oh yeah there should be a witch hunt ......and both he and "Tone" need to be tied to a steak in the Middle of the Square at Aldershot and burnt to death !!!

Spend time analysing why Inteligence failed?I said way back when this thing kicked off the Intelligence was ****e,and it looks more and more likely that it was!

Hoon has even said today that the 45 min claim was irrelevant!!!!
It was bloody relevant back in march
THE MAN'S A FUC*ING DISGRACE!!!
I'd love to get a punch at his face and wipe that smug look from it,but I think there are 50,000 squaddies in front of me!

[California Joe]

The Hoonstinian. I blame the British.

What does that mean?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. But everyone had pretty much called him an assclown so it would have been redundant. Nice avatar by the way.

[EvanL]

A few words to sum up Hoon, useless pathetic arrogant C--T.
Nice to see you back jones.

[California Joe]

How would one go about getting rid of him in Britain? Does Tony Blair just ****can his ass or what? Would he?

[Argyll]

Get a pissed off Squaddie to Shoot him and say hehad GW syndrome when hehad no plate in his BA......say it must've slipped his mind just like it slipped your's you fu*k when you sent me there without them!!

[California Joe]

OK. *backing slowly away from the angry kilted man*

[Royal]

OK. *backing slowly away from the angry kilted man*

Angry kilted (and not kilted) men.

USA320 - when you're old enough to wipe your own arse and finish up on the ground somewhere with no body armour, one NBC suit and an out of date respirator, maybe, just maybe, you'll understand.

[usa320]

oh, this is the fagbag that failed to properly give the Brits the right body armor plates?

I agree with all the earlier things that were said.

[marktigger]

right armour, enough ammo, enough NBC kit, Enough medical counter measures, etc etc never mind the non essential stuff like desert kit

he's at least admitted that the supply situation was worse than he had originally admitted and it effected troops morale

no **** sherlock

[cut]

bah and he's still banging on about WMD, when will he stop digging. Bring back the guilotine

[martinexsquaddie]

well I'm in favour of him being turned into pavement pizza by means of a challanger tank :lol:

[James]

Based on this article it appears that Hoon and Rumsfeld might get along quite well. :roll:

[marktigger]

the thing is rumsfeld had a vested interest in starting a war ie haliburton. Unless hoon is a shareholder in Haliburton that we don't know about then he didn't

[Argyll]

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040206/i/r1675697437.jpg

Rumsfeldt: I see you do not have any plates Geoff
Hoon:Don't you fuc*ing start!

[IDFM203]

To my Brit friends (If I have any left here ;) )

I don’t want to get into this WMD aspect of all this, for that can take pages of postings and that is not the crux of my post here.

I just want to address one theme that I have seen often from you Brits on this board and it is something I can relate to as well. (Unlike the yanks here with their almost unlimited budget ;) )

Ok in the IDF we are also severely lacking a lot of the basics…I mean there is not enough bullet proof vests. (yes there are quality ones in the IDF but not all front line troops have them) we also lack proper ballistic protection in a lot of our M113’s and even NBC suits we are a bit deficient in allocation of them.

Now believe me we also bitch and moan about it and there are things or people to point to blame and to demand improvements, however there is also a sad recognition of the IDF budget limitations and that although it is still unacceptable for soldiers to be in combat zones without the proper protection (a lot have it but there are some that don’t) it is a bit understandable due to the budget realities that Israel has :(

Now with the Brits, I don’t know hoon or how your MOD works, But I find it very hard to believe that your top chain of command would not provide the necessary things for British soldiers to protect thier lives when they go into battle. It seems from what I read that the brits also have budget problems and that has to be recognized as well.. In fact I am not sure that you guys have the same financial limitations of Israel. I think perhaps its that with you guys, the money that is allocated yearly from the national budget to defense is not enough and your society needs to recognize that and “pony up” more cash to the cash strapped military.

I want to stress that I am sure your criticisms of hoon and the MOD are justified, I just think perhaps your all using them as a total scapegoat for your own society refusing to provide the necessary full financial commitments (raise taxes if you may) to the military.

Anyways I could be way off on your situation there in your “island” and I guess Ill await for any response that you guys might share with me.


Shalom :D

[Argyll]

It is not up to society to provide the Armed Forces with personal protection IDFM203,it is the MOD and ultimatley the Government that is responsible.

You would not be allowed to work in a building site without adequare PPE,that is the Law here in the UK,under the Health and Safety at Work act,it is an employers responsibility to provide the PPE,and to make sure that the employee is given "Duty of Care"..........the Armed Forces are no different,they are still bound by the same Laws.

Soldiers were sent to the Front line without the neccesary PPE,such as Plates in thier jackets......that is negligence!
Soldiers were sent into battle with one NBC suit(Into a country that was allegedly ready to use WMD's in 45 mins).....that is incompetence!
If these Brigades came under attack from Chemical Agents,thousands would have died as a result!,2ndly the suit will only last 48 hrs or so before it needs changed........here they were without 2nd Suits,what would have happened if such an attack did occur would have been catastrophic for those men,the attack's momentum will have failed,and the war would have been lost right at that point!

New Labour want to cut the Armed Forces,they are all of the old school CND assholes,they could not give a **** about the poor bast*rd fighting in 40 degree heat in his one NBC suit,possibly facing Chemical weapons!

Accountability starts at the top where Health and Safety is concerned!!

[IDFM203]

Ok mate I can see that your quite passionate about all this (and rightfully so, heck I am too about these types of things in the IDF)….believe me we aren’t arguing here ;) …I am just trying to understand things better on your island there.


It is not up to society to provide the Armed Forces with personal protection IDFM203,it is the MOD and ultimatley the Government that is responsible. no I totally got that. I never said other wise…Ok what I am saying is that it is up to society to provide the government with the neccessary funds, through taxes, which in turn they provide to the MOD and to the the armed forces, the requisite funding so those agencies can provide the armed forces with the necessary protection.

Now if it is just a allocation problem or a mismanagement problem, meaning there are enough funds in the yearly budget for the armed services, just that the money is not getting there, then hell that’s a major problem and people need to be held accountable for it…..and perhaps that is it….it seems however that there is a funding problem and the simple fact is that the defense budget is not enough and it is not getting the proper funds to the MOD so they can go out and purchase all the necessary kit to provide to the soldiers.

In effect I am asking, is it that the government has the funds and just through gross mismanagement and gross negligence they haven’t properly used and allocated them to purchase the necessary kit or that the hard truth is that the budget is not enough and that more is needed, either taking from other non-military programs that Brits value so dearly or to raise taxes. (And the latter question is a society thing)…I hope your getting my drift here!!


Accountability starts at the top where Health and Safety is concerned!! True and they should be held accountable however you must also ask yourself, do they have the required funds to properly do their job and if not why not?

Shalom :D

[Argyll]

prolly cause they spent so much on that POS Eurofighter!!

the 6 P's come to mind when looking at the debacle about kit!

Planning
Preparation
Prevents
Piss
Poor
Performance !!

Somehow Hoon and his Whitehall shirt lifters failed to read these during the build up to war!!

[CX20]

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040206/i/r1675697437.jpg

Rumsfeldt: I see you do not have any plates Geoff
Hoon:Don't you fuc*ing start!

rofl rofl rofl rofl priceless

[Sixgun Symphony]

......troops did not have the right kit,no kit,and in some case no weapons or ammo,and they were going to Fuc*ing war man!!!

This is the fuc*ing clown who leaped up and down shouting about WMD ready in 45 mins,and they sent British troops into Iraq with 1 fuc*ing Noddy suit!!.......If they did come under Chemical attack,they would have died in their thousands!!........you tell me that's a great Plan from a great Leader?


If so, then that is really ****ed up. There should be accountability.

[Royal]

If so, then that is really f*** up. There should be accountability.

No **** Sherlock.

[mocking_loudly_died]

To my Brit friends (If I have any left here ;) )

I'll be your friend. :oops:

Say, can I borrow some lovely Israeli tanks this weekend to smite my neighbor’s party?

They smell.

[marktigger]

The New labour government have since they arrived in power been sending the army on deployment after deployment and at the same time cutting spending on top of the 3% efficiency saving they are required to make every year. There has been the promise at every round of cuts that there would be investment in new kit but it just isn't happening.
We are now regularly put into harms way with out the gear we should have and are promised we will have it by the time we get to theatre and it just doesn't happen. In the media at the weekend there was a story that the 6 RMP guys who were killed at al Kajha had 20 rounds of 5.56mm ammo each, no morhine as they had been taken of them to give the incoming MP company their war scale. A mate in the RLC told me our entire war stock of 155 ammo was on 1 ship along with our war stock of 105mm Howitizer ammo. There were press reports during the war of soldiers in logistic units going into Iraq with 10 rounds in their mags and some with empty mags. Our field hospitals had to rely on units to escort them as they had no weapons for the majority of their personnel and this was to deploy north.
The call that people should be held acountable for this is correct people should. But as Hutton proved this government will twist its way out of trouble. Don't even try and hold civil servants accountable. Then there is the Senior officers and service chiefs. Thease were the people who told whitehall we were ready to go when they were still struggling to to sort out the logistics mess. And who in the aftermath wrote all the glowing reports that the government use to say that everything went swimingly why because they want their next step up the ladder and their Gong. The last one to stand up for his service was Adml Boyce and he was forced to resign. I would sugest the guys at the bottom are starting to loose trust in the chain of command.

[Royal]

Mark. I agree 100%.

It is a damn shame that Blair managed to get rid of Adm Boyce.

Having worked for Gen Jackson before, I had high hopes.

No longer :(

[IDFM203]

To my Brit friends (If I have any left here ;) )

I'll be your friend. :oops: aww thanks :D though are you a brit or a Aussi?

I was referring to brits, mate ;)

(I got enough Aussie friends already ;) )




Say, can I borrow some lovely Israeli tanks this weekend to smite my neighbor’s party?

They smell. hey no problem :D …. if you are a brit, Ill just send back those old British Centurions that are lying around in storage. (Believe it or not some of them were still in use in the IDF till a couple of years ago……of course with added Israeli modifications :D )

Shalom :D