SF OD-A's

[FuturePara]

If there are any prior Army SF or guys who are well versed in knowledge about them, can someone answer a few Q's for me?
I understand how the whole OD-A numbering system things works I believe. I have heard acronym's used to describe OD-A's like MFF (Free Fall?) UWO, SADM...what do they mean...and are their other acronyms along with those?

[Apogee]

MFF = military free fall

Thats the HALO A-team in an ODC

[SHOOTERB]

The numbering thing works out by GRP/Co/Tm. ODA 711= 7th Grp, Co A, 1st team. there are 5 ODAs in a company, Used to be 6 when I was there, and on ODB which number is always "0". ODB 710. There are 3 "line" companys in an SF BN. A/B/C.

MFF= Military FreeFall, HALO, HAHO
UWO= Under water operations, or simply SCUBA teams.
SADM= man pack nukes. not used anymore went out with the Berlin wall.


anymore?

[fng]

Yes. I heard that the SADM teams where referred to as Green Light and that the predecessor to SFOD-D was referred to as Blue Light. Is that true?

[SHOOTERB]

The Green light/ Blue light was back in the 70's. Blue light was the Armys answer to "we need a quick fix now" response while the CAG was being built. After it was sanctioned (CAG) Blue Light went away. Just too expensive to keep to of those units running at the same time. 5Th grp sponsered Blue Light and had to take money out of hide while the CAG got its budget from the JCS types.

I dont remember anything about green light being the SADM teams. In the 7th GRP it was called PIG teams (Palmers' Imperial Guard). After Col Palmer who ran the GRP. They were all abn/ranger/sf/halo/scuba qualified so they could infil by all means and were supposedly the best out of the GRP. Thats what i was told and remember when i first got there in the 80's.

[Registration Information]

ShooterB, what do you think about the new contracts given out to people which grants them a straight road to special forces ( if they make it)? Do you think they will be properly trained to survive sf assessment with the lack of experience they possess?

[SHOOTERB]

First off JFKSWC does nothing without proper research. In the old days there was a similar program which has been dubbed by the "Old Timers" as the SF Baby program. That is where a guy could enlist in the Army for SF. He would do basic, AIT, ABN school, then go to Bragg for "Pre-phase training" (now SFAS), and finish the Q-course. My first Team SGT was an SF Baby and a finer SF soldier ive never met. These guys knew one thing by the time they had become SR. on the team and that was how SF operates. Thats a good thing. At the same time there were still guys coming into SF from the regular Army units and they brought with them "other" skills and expirence that would round out the A-team.

Today I see it as the same thing. Youre gonna get in a young guy with no Army expirence but the team he gets to will have to mold him over the years. It is a young mans game after all. Those who make it through the course will always make it no matter what! SF always gets the right person to train. Its up to the SR NCOs on the team to make him mission ready. I think its a good program. It gets younger guys in the ATMs and they grow under already seasoned combat vets, and hopefuly with the way the world is right now, they will get some combat expierence. Hope this answers your questions.

[Bing]

SADM: Strategic Atomic Demolition Munition

[fng]

Thanks, ShooterB. I heard something about the Blue Light team being tasked during the Desert One op to take down an apartment (?) that had a few hostages while Delta went after the main target. They had enfilled earlier and were waiting to launch when they heard that the mission was scrubbed. They had to E&E to the SE(?) through the desert and that the terrain was so rough that it ate up all the tires on the vehicles and they were forced to walk out something like a thousand miles. There was some complaint about the JCS dropping the ball and forgetting about the team. I have no idea if it is true or not but the story would make a good book.

[SHOOTERB]

The story is true. Or parts of it anyway. I had a company Sgm who was there and told it to me. I thought he was with a different unit at the time and never asked who he was with. Anyway he did the walk out and had said that was one of the most scariest things he had ever done... at the time.

[FuturePara]

SHOOTERB, could you possibly give me some insight into who Keith Idema is also. I know it's a big name that's looked down on in the SF Community. I tried to pick the info up on socnet but it's so spread out and diversified I couldn't really grasp the full story.

[fng]

Did he ever mention travelling through one of the 'stans and coming across an enclave of blond haired blue-eyed people in a mountain valley who were descendents of Alexander the Great's army, or some such?

[SHOOTERB]

Dont know the guy myself. Heard some bad **** about him. SF has its share of dip****s as well. Probably heard the same things you have. You need to remember that there are three forms of comunication, television, telephone, and tell a SF guy. By that i mean bad rumors get around fast and before you know it you could be a ****heel. I dont know the guy so Im not gonna contribute to the bad **** ive heard.

[fng]

:backhand:

Copy that. Thanks.

[FuturePara]

I know I'm probably bugging that crap out of you, ShooterB, your just a great source of information on this whole SF topic is all woot
I noticed you post something about SF guys being DA or SFARTAETC/CIF...
What's that mean, are those other designations for an A-Team as well, or are UWO and MFF the only designations OD-A's go by. If there are others, what are they?
Thanks again pal, your a big help.

[Registration Information]

Appreciate the info SHOOTERB. I just wanted to know how valid this contract was. I plan on either taking an Intel mos or this contract offer.

[SHOOTERB]

There are all kinds of "designations" out there. If you find something you dont know let me know and i'll try to help. SFARTAETC is a school that SF/Rangers/SEALS/ some law enforcement types go to. It teachs shooting at close quarters, breaching, and spec ops related material as far as urban ops go. A C.I.F is one specific company in any SF group where these shooters get assigned after they grad SFARTAETC. This units mission is training foregin nations tier 1 level assests how to conduct specialized urban missions. This unit may also conduct these "special Missions" if other national level assests are not available or they may need a little help. When i was in grp each company had designated teams to perform specialized infil/exfil techniques. MFF, SCUBA, ruff terrain/mountain, WIC (kyak), laser/ghost, and SOT teams. this dosent mean that on the mff team you couldnt have a scuba quald guy. he just wasnt getting paid for scuba.

The contract is valid. Its gonna be hard but if you realy want it youll make it. As soon as you question it youre finished. If you go intell you will never be able to go SF. Its a shortage M.O.S. They used to allow intell guys to go to the commo course and get the tab (if you were in a grp already) but your M.O.S. would not change to 18 nor could you wear the Green Beret.

If you dont want to go SF right away my advice is 11b ABN ranger. Get experience, get hard, then go SF. There are a **** load of bat boys that do that and they are a tremendous assest to the teams.

[Registration Information]

ShooterB, being done of college does a bach degree provide any kind of an advantage in getting into SF or is it just raw field experience that they are looking for?

[SHOOTERB]

Not for getting into SF. If you go enlisted it will help you out for promotions for E-7 through E-9. These are DA centralized boards where they sort through your records and look at your picture and decide who is best to be promoted. E-5 through E-6 are local boards held at the BN level based on a points system. It takes a lot to explain it but thats the jist. In SFAS they are looking for suitability for training for the "Q" course, and the mental and physical strength to go the distance. The bach degree will also help if you decide to become an SF Warrant Officer, or go the commissioned route. Higher education is smiled upon in the Army and youll fnd that most team members have a college degree or finishing one up.

[SHOOTERB]

Not for getting into SF. If you go enlisted it will help you out for promotions for E-7 through E-9. These are DA centralized boards where they sort through your records and look at your picture and decide who is best to be promoted. E-5 through E-6 are local boards held at the BN level based on a points system. It takes a lot to explain it but thats the jist. In SFAS they are looking for suitability for training for the "Q" course, and the mental and physical strength to go the distance. The bach degree will also help if you decide to become an SF Warrant Officer, or go the commissioned route. Higher education is smiled upon in the Army and youll fnd that most team members have a college degree or finishing one up.

[stoli]

is not SFAUC the current urban combat course for the SF

[SHOOTERB]

SFAUC is a course ran at the indivigual GRP level to keep the ATMs current on their shooting and warrior skills in an urban environment. SFARTAETC is an advanced skills course tuaght by JFKSWCS to qualify SF guys for duty in a C.I.F

There used to be a course called S.O.T but it was phased out by SWC and replaced by SFAUC in the GRPs. A lot of the pictures in the USSOCOM area here are either of C.I.Fs training or SFAETAETC instructors. When you see these pictures of the guys wearing the "black baseball" caps with the skull and crossed arrows on it they are normally current or ex- C.I.F guys. Each GRP has its own C.I.F

[sn589]

sorry to be the FNG but what does C.I.F. stand for?

[SHOOTERB]

C.I.F= CINCs In-Extremis Force. The make up and training is similar to the CAG. Snipers, Assaulters, Breachers, and a support cell. The ATMs are set up like normal ATMs TM LDR, TM TECH, TM SGT, INTEL SGT, SR Medic, JR Medic, SR Commo, JR Commo, SR ENG, JR ENG, SR WPNS, JR WPNS with some minor changes as to duties. Each C.I.F is structered differently from the next but for the most part they all perform the same mission and roughly have the same number of people.

[FuturePara]

Is there only one CIF OD-A per group, or it a complete company made of of CIF OD-A's in one group, how's that work?
Is that the training that is conducted down on Range 37?

[SHOOTERB]

There is only one C.I.F per group. The C.I.F is not an ODA but a Company with up to 7 ODAs in it and 1 ODB. Each C.I.F is structured differently. SFARTAETC is ran at Bragg. The newest C.I.F on the block is 3rd GRPs. Three of the C.I.Fs are forward deployed in their perspective AORs.

[fng]

Does the C.I.F. company get more direct action missions than the other companies in the group? Are they exclusively used for urban ops or is their charter broader than that?

[PSYWAR1-0]

"Special Forces no longer has a DA mission, all DA missions have been tasked to other units in SOCOM"











Its a joke, if you were in a certain forward deployed company in the 90s you will get it, or you wont get it and wonder why I wasted your bandwidth.

[SHOOTERB]

Just because There is CT involved does not mean its all urban. The C.I.Fs practice there trade in a rural and urban environment. Urban is the hardest as far as training goes (leaving a signature, and coordination). The C.I.F is used to train other Nations how to conduct CT. If the need arises the C.I.Fs may be put into action , but that all depends on JSOC. I get it PSYWAR-1. Were/are you with a unit?

[PSYWAR1-0]

ShooterB: Support side, NW of my current location 91-95. No longer a .mil, now a .gov I fix broke things and look for lost sheep.

Edited cause Im having trouble thinking in english these days

[SHOOTERB]

PSYWAR1-0: Are you working with a Mr Pyle or a Mr Friend at your current location?

[PSYWAR1-0]

You got me pegged. Billy sure can cook a pig. We had down time during Holy Week and I hung out there for a couple of nites.

Edited to say: You should see the killer 1946 HD with Side Car he found down here.

[SHOOTERB]

I think some one told me about that a while ago. Tell all the old guys hello. If you run into Booger there tell him everyone has read is article in News Week and he's still a copenhagen mouching bum! Take care and keep your heads down.

[fng]

Here's a question. What type of martial arts do SF train in? Is it one kind, like Ju Jitsu, or is it a mix of stuff and is it standardized?

[Piccolo]

I'm no BTDT, but I don't think there are any advanced courses taught throughout SFAS/SFQC. I know there are some moves taught durring SERE, and Basic/AIT of course, but no idea otherwise.

[TacoDelRio]

Does anyone know exactly what the White Star Teams were in VietNam?

Hooah p-)

[XASA]

White Star was a "black" op and the teams didn't operate in Vietnam. They were Special Forces and a few CIA officers working under the guise of Program Evaluation Office, a CIA cover. They were sent to Laos in 1958 to stem the advances of the NVA and Pathet Lao into the northern Laotian panhandle and were tasked with organizing and training Meo tribesman to fight alongside the Royal Laotian Army. The most famous member of the teams was Col. "Bull" Simons, who would later become famous for leading the Son Tay Raid.

[Sand Man]

Here's a question. What type of martial arts do SF train in? Is it one kind, like Ju Jitsu, or is it a mix of stuff and is it standardized?

Does anybody know the answer to this question? I would love to know myself ... Thanks!

[ed316]

Chuck Fu is what they are taught.

[Sand Man]

Chuck Fu is what they are taught.

I take it that's an "I don't know" answer dressed up to look like "I know so"

[Deuterium]

ShooterB: Support side, NW of my current location 91-95. No longer a .mil, now a .gov I fix broke things and look for lost sheep.

Edited cause Im having trouble thinking in english these days

Sounds like you spent too much time at the "date gate" on Clayton.

[Deuterium]

Does anybody know the answer to this question? I would love to know myself ... Thanks!

Every Group has its flavor of the month. LInes traiing was pushed for while SF wide but from what I saw each group tendedto exert its influence over what guys did. It was more a money thing than anything else.

[East]

Did he ever mention travelling through one of the 'stans and coming across an enclave of blond haired blue-eyed people in a mountain valley who were descendents of Alexander the Great's army, or some such?

Sweet zombie Jesus did I ever laugh when I read this! Congrads your the first guy to make me laugh hard enough for beer to come out my nose.

[Sand Man]

Every Group has its flavor of the month. LInes traiing was pushed for while SF wide but from what I saw each group tendedto exert its influence over what guys did. It was more a money thing than anything else.

I see. So there is no particular martial art or anything for a specific SpecWar unit ... as long as you can render an enemy incapable of inflicting harm at the shortest amount of time.