Iran´s T-72 photos

[Andrekid]

Anyone have photos of Iran´s T-72?
Thanks
Andre

[Uninen]

Here:

http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/01015234-t-72.jpg
T-72 with Explosive Reactive Armor.

From military parade in Iran, Tehran on 22.9.2003..

Source:

http://www.acig.org/

[Uninen]

Heres more:

http://personal.inet.fi/koti/uninen/uploads/Sekalaisii/tank_t72s_1_big.jpg
Couple of Iranian T-72s, on parade..
(Every single vehicle you see on this pic is T-72 with ERA.. in Iran..)

:lol:

*Edit*

I uploaded the pic on my space.. its 100x faster than the orginal host..

rofl

[DHN_STONE1]

the first time i saw them i thought the ERA were just bricks :oops:

[Uninen]

:D

Its not..

(The 'bricks' are full of explosives.. they are metal boxes..)

Like you propably already know,
Explosive Reactive Armors fuction is to defeat or lessen the penetrative power of HEAT (shaped charge) warheads or ATGMs, Recoiless guns projectiles and of AT-Rockets / Grenades..

And can even be effective against Kinetic Energy attacks..

(SABOTS, AP-ammo..)

:hug:

Heres more:

http://personal.inet.fi/koti/uninen/uploads/Sekalaisii/tank_t72s_1_big.jpg
Couple of Iranian T-72s, on parade..
(Every single vehicle you see on this pic is T-72 with ERA.. in Iran..)

:lol:

*Edit*

I uploaded the pic on my space.. its 100x faster than the orginal host..

rofl


daaaaaaaaaammmmmmmnnnnn

[AFACadet]

mmmmmmmm.... a bomber pilots dream ;)

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/bomber/b1_mk82.jpg

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/bomber/b1_cbus.jpg

p-)

[Uninen]

:lol:

In your dreams..

:lol:

Iran has F-14s and MiG-29s..

And its 'own' new fighter on the way..

Also and more importantly, they have 'double-digit SAMs'..

rofl

Those S-300s etc..

They are more than USAF can hack..

rofl

[soma]

Those silly iranians have to work on aligning their tanks. Turrets, the tank itself, the barrel. UGH.

[AFACadet]

YAWN....





http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/f22/images/raptor7.jpg

+

http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~dmbpilot/jsf.jpg

+

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/bomber/b2bombs.jpg

+

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/images/e-3-00000003.jpg

+

http://www.teao.saic.com/jfcom/library/aircraft/jstars.jpg

+

http://www.heise.de/tp/deutsch/special/info/11821/11821_3.jpg

+

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/dote98/98abl.jpg

+

http://www.bulba.eu.org/mil/free/bomb/jsow(5).jpg

+

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/jdam-002.jpg

+

http://www.rl.af.mil/tech/programs/ADII/images/satellite.gif


=

Iranian AF/AD speed bump

heh

[Uninen]

:roll:

Funny,

I dont remember anybody asking for USAF photo essay..

:petting:

[AFACadet]

I know


















But it was SO worth it


:D :D :D :D rofl woot

[ibstolidude]

:lol:

In your dreams..

:lol:

Iran has F-14s and MiG-29s..

And its 'own' new fighter on the way..

Also and more importantly, they have 'double-digit SAMs'..

rofl

Those S-300s etc..

They are more than USAF can hack..

rofl

Thats funny I dont remember anybody asking for your order of battle match up..

[Uninen]

:roll:

i didnt mention that until this one dude over there brought B-1s with em..

Before that..

I was just trying to find pics of Iranian T-72s..

And i did find em..

2 of them, and they are the only photos here posted about them..

:bash:

[FallenAngel]

Iran has F-14s and MiG-29s..

And its 'own' new fighter on the way..

Also and more importantly, they have 'double-digit SAMs'..


Iranians had F-14As AFAIK- which isn't too impressive. The latest version of the F-14 still isn't up to par with all it's improvements- they are slowly being phased out and being replaced with F/A-18Fs. F/A-18Cs are likewise being replaced with F/A-18Es.

MiG 29s are not very good on their own. They are designed to fill a niche in the greater air defense strategy.

The SAMs could be a problem, but the US would most likely take out all command and control first, leaving each SAM site to operate independently. From that point on, the liberal use of HARM missiles will temper that threat- assuming the Iranians have the tech to beat our ECM.

:bash:

[Ghostwolf]

AFACadet, JSOW is just a damn stupid glide bomb, replace it with this:

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/cool.pix/jassm.jpg

and this.....
http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=ALCM/v=2/l=IVI/*-http://www.my.fragweb.com/albums/album05/alcm.jpg

and definitely THIS!!
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/modern_flight/mf53c.jpg

[Kingpin]

ABL is not in service yet
F-22 is not in service yet
AWACS currently obsolete and should be replaced. Anyway target practice if you manage to move into firing position.
Predator very vulnerable to AA defences
Different guided and gliding munitions - not very impressive already
Satellites can be all destroyed or damaged in first hours of war (you need proper tech for it though).

yawn... Nothing interesting here. Move along boys.

[strubi99]

Different guided and gliding munitions - not very impressive already

Jsow uses are stealth weapons and can glide for more than 100 km if lanched from high altitude.
A B-2 can carry 16 of them. This means that 10 Spirits can wipe out in a single pass quite all the SAMs of country (excepts for very big countries) without no one knowing it untill it's done.

[wreck]

Different guided and gliding munitions - not very impressive already

Jsow uses are stealth weapons and can glide for more than 100 km if lanched from high altitude.
A B-2 can carry 16 of them. This means that 10 Spirits can wipe out in a single pass quite all the SAMs of country (excepts for very big countries) without no one knowing it untill it's done.
In theory yes.

Not everybody is as amateur as Iraqis.

[Kingpin]

Different guided and gliding munitions - not very impressive already

Jsow uses are stealth weapons and can glide for more than 100 km if lanched from high altitude.
A B-2 can carry 16 of them. This means that 10 Spirits can wipe out in a single pass quite all the SAMs of country (excepts for very big countries) without no one knowing it untill it's done.

First of all: Spirit is not Superman. It can be detected and destroyed (low probability here does not means zero probability). At least Russia have know-how on this theme.
Second: how can you guarantee that all JSOWs hit the target? Or even more: how can you guarantee that JSOWs hit real target and not mockup?

From Iraqi Freedom:
"....The pilots report that there is no way to know if the weapons released against the Iraqi air defenses hit the real targets or just more decoys. “…We engaged everything that looked like a radar. But there is no way in hell we can know what it really was!” – reported one of the coalition pilots back to ground control after releasing missiles against a suspected Iraqi radar site..."

"...The coalition aircraft over Iraq encountered a huge number of various kinds of target mockups and other decoys on the ground. Thus, for example, after the post-strike aerial reconnaissance mission of an Iraqi airbase near Basra it was determined that all of the 20 Iraqi aircraft reported earlier by the coalition pilots as being destroyed in the bombing turned out to be aircraft mockups. Additionally, nearly all Iraqi radars discovered earlier have ceased transmission and relocated to new positions. As the result, every third coalition aircraft designated for the role of suppressing Iraqi air defenses returned to base with its full combat load unused..."

[Seiyuuki]

F-22 is not in service yet

The training squadron in Tyndall, Florida is already up and running and the 27th Fighter Squadron of the 1st Fighter Wing have already started receiving their F/A-22 Raptor this year.

[strubi99]

First of all: Spirit is not Superman. It can be detected and destroyed (low probability here does not means zero probability). At least Russia have know-how on this theme.

Not from 100 km; low frequency radar can detect a B-2 due to the longer wave lenght which is less affected by stealth design, but low frequency means also less range of detection, no more than 30/40 km.


Second: how can you guarantee that all JSOWs hit the target? Or even more: how can you guarantee that JSOWs hit real target and not mockup?

Have you ever heard about SIGINT ? You listen to enemy emissions for a certain period and you'll be able to separate targets from garbage.

[Kingpin]

Have you ever heard about SIGINT ? You listen to enemy emissions for a certain period and you'll be able to separate targets from garbage.

And what?
First of all any inactive target still can't be recognized by this method.
As for actively emissing targets... Well, this things only make mockup manufacturing more difficult. All decoys simulating proper activity should be installed.

Anyway boys let's stop highjacking this thread. It was about Iranian tanks if you remember :)

[Kingpin]

Not from 100 km; low frequency radar can detect a B-2 due to the longer wave lenght which is less affected by stealth design, but low frequency means also less range of detection, no more than 30/40 km.


This is only technological question. You can't be sure about current developments. Don't forget that Russians developed almost all stealth theory by their own. This means that they know how it really works and where weaknesses can be found.

Also you can't be sure that there is no such radar on ground below you until it turns on. After it turns on you have very few time to evade missile attack. So once again i can repeat: low chance doesn't means no chance. Every conscript have a chance to down 2 billions wonder :)

[Nizark]

ABL is not in service yet
F-22 is not in service yet
AWACS currently obsolete and should be replaced.

AWACS is incredibly not obsolete. What would you replace it with?

[Sergei]

Here are some of the Iranian tanks taken from the site otvaga.ru.

http://www.otvaga.narod.ru/Otvaga/caleidoscope/iran/tank_safir74_big.jpg


Safir-74

http://www.otvaga.narod.ru/Otvaga/caleidoscope/iran/tank_safir86_big.jpg

Self-propelled gun "Zulfikar"
http://www.otvaga.narod.ru/Otvaga/caleidoscope/iran/tank_zulfiqar_big.jpg

T-62
http://www.otvaga.narod.ru/Otvaga/caleidoscope/iran/t62.gif

Regards,

[strubi99]

This is only technological question. You can't be sure about current developments.

Nope; it's a physics questions. The weakening effect of atmosphere on radar emission is proportional to the square of the wavelenght.
In other words; if you double the wavelnght; you have to increase by 4 the power in order to get same performances. A radar using 1 meter wavelenght signals needs 100^2 the power nedded by a millimeter wavelnght radar.


Also you can't be sure that there is no such radar on ground below you until it turns on.

Beacuse in order to emit a signal of "X" wave lenght you need at least an antenna of X lenght. Russiam low freq. radars are monsters with antennas big such as a three stories building; quite impossible to hide.
And you can't get the antenna smaller since you'll go against basics electromagntic physiscs rules.

[Operation Ivy]

Uninen is just mad cause the Abrams will rip those Russian tanks apart ;) :hug:

[Kingpin]

This is only technological question. You can't be sure about current developments.

Nope; it's a physics questions. The weakening effect of atmosphere on radar emission is proportional to the square of the wavelenght.
In other words; if you double the wavelnght; you have to increase by 4 the power in order to get same performances. A radar using 1 meter wavelenght signals needs 100^2 the power nedded by a millimeter wavelnght radar.


Also you can't be sure that there is no such radar on ground below you until it turns on.

Beacuse in order to emit a signal of "X" wave lenght you need at least an antenna of X lenght. Russiam low freq. radars are monsters with antennas big such as a three stories building; quite impossible to hide.
And you can't get the antenna smaller since you'll go against basics electromagntic physiscs rules.


Actually it depends from wavelength. But anyway you can increase power and sensitivity of radar. And this is technology.
As for size i can't say anything against you - those things huge and not mobile.

[Adri]

the equipment does not count as much in any war as the training of the crew/soldiers, and the US have much better trained soldiers, in a war againt Iran USA would win.

but to talk about equpment:
in the air the migs is mainly (my gess) of the type A...wich have no ECM.
the F-14 does have some long range missiles but the will not beable to use them cause of the ECM that USA and Russian now has in their air planes..wich the Iranian doesn't.
in the air, it is not big suprise that Iran would lose easy.
however, the S-300 is an unbelivable anti air mobile SAM, one of these have the range to cover the whole Iran.....but does the Iranian crew members have the training ?
I think that a lot of their soldiers would just leave their place, cause they does not have belive in their leaders or commanders, this will leave a lot of equiptment alone as an easy target to the USAF.
I realy doesn't think it would be so much diffrent from the iraqi war, the S-300 can not detect stealth and it isn't the smalest thing in the world... easy target for F-117 and it will probably be taken out in the first air attack.

if the Irani leaders doesn't do as Saddam and orders to digg down their air force rofl then maby we will have some air figthes, and even some shoot down air planes, a lot of the iraqi air force just flied over to iran during the first gulf war, but where now ?
USA does have awac suport and missiles will take out Irans radars in the first attack, so the Irani air fleet will fall down as rain.....
when it comes to the tanks, the T-72 isn't as bad as you think...but agains an A-10....good luck....
the range is not as good as a M1, if they doesn't hide them inside the cities the will become sitting ducks for the air force and armory.

my bett is that the war will maby be some harder then the iraqi war, but a clear victory for the coalition forces.
the time aften the war will be a lot harder, I gess more bambing attack and larger recistance, if the Irani commanders have learnt from iraq then they will prepare for gerillia tactic.

so, will the war ever come ?
no, Bush got in so much truble with the Iraqi war that he will not attack before he have a good reason or a large suport from EU/NATO countries/UN.

that is my gess.

[mustamato]

Uninen is just mad cause the Abrams will rip those Russian tanks apart ;) :hug:

I guess it would be the Abrams that would be ripped apart if the Iranian
tanks had depleted uranium rounds them too and they fired first, or why
not laser-guided anti-tank missiles fired from the 125 mm gun, with some kind
of DU-warhead on it, then they would definitively shoot first.

Of course USA could invade Iran anytime they will. It would cost a couple
of hundred american lives of course, but Iran would be occupied. It would
be interesting then though, Iraq is a little ****hole with very US-friendly
people compared to Iran. And if US even can´t handle the Iraqi resistance,
well, they better stay away from Iran. Even though they can´t use those
Iranian T-72´s their 125 mm HE-FRAG ammo would make for some nice IED´s.

[Uninen]

Those 125mm missiles have HEAT (tandem HEAT..) warhead, and if one would be actually used in combat against abrams, it would make quick job of of M1Ax..

:roll:

Oh yeah,

And the 125mm gun launched missiles out range M1Ax 120mm gun, with or with out DU rounds..

Iraq btw,

Didnt have those..

Im not even sure that had they anykinds of kinetic energy (Sabots..) rounds for their MBT cannon or just plain simple low velocity HEAT rounds and AP rounds..

Which both have limited effective range..

(AP rounds cause they lose V fast as they arent sabots, and HEAT rounds as they must fly slow to be effective when they impact and arent guided like the missile rounds..)

:petting:

[Operation Ivy]

Man u can never make joke on this fourm :roll:

[Falco]

Those 125mm missiles have HEAT (tandem HEAT..) warhead, and if one would be actually used in combat against abrams, it would make quick job of of M1Ax..

:roll:

Oh yeah,

And the 125mm gun launched missiles out range M1Ax 120mm gun, with or with out DU rounds..

Iraq btw,

Didnt have those..

Im not even sure that had they anykinds of kinetic energy (Sabots..) rounds for their MBT cannon or just plain simple low velocity HEAT rounds and AP rounds..

Which both have limited effective range..

(AP rounds cause they lose V fast as they arent sabots, and HEAT rounds as they must fly slow to be effective when they impact and arent guided like the missile rounds..)

:petting:

Same thing goes with the hellfire, TOW, etc being used against the T72. I doubt Iranien tankers are trained as well as american ones. After all, training is what makes the difference.

There is also the maintenance question. Are Iranian T72s maintained in a good condition? Are the 125mm cannon-lauched missiles still functionnal? Or have they met the same fate as most of the iranian F14s.

[mustamato]

Iraq btw,

I have a loose feeling of that the Iranian crews are for the first, more
competent, and secondly not chickens that run away and leave their
few brave buddies alone to face a hord of americans. The few reports
of tank clashes from the second gulf war I read indicates that the Iraqi
T-72´s even missed their first shots, and when they hit the rounds just
bounced off.

Iranians are more hardcore, and they´ll probably not miss with their
first 99 rounds either. This combined with better ammo and usage of
units that doesn´t run away immediately would probably be more lethal
than in the Iraqi case.

Not sufficiently effective, but they would kill more yankees during the "war-
phase" than the Iraqis did. And then kick them out with insurgent/
guerilla tactics.


Are the 125mm cannon-lauched missiles still functionnal? Or have they met the same fate as most of the iranian F14s.

And you don´t see any difference at all between a american F14A and
a domestically or russian-made anti-tank missile?

[Falco]

And you don´t see any difference at all between a american F14A and
a domestically or russian-made anti-tank missile?

That was an analogy. The point I was trying to make was whether or not the Iranian have kept their armor up to specs.

[AFACadet]

Iran still has a few F-14s left.

They ran out of AIM-54s, so now they use HAWKs instead.

[Uninen]

Iran still has a few F-14s left.

Word is that your few is the MOST, and that they are all (that werent shot down by Iraqis or lost in accidents..) operational.. reverse engineering can work miracles..

;)

[AFACadet]

No, they are actually using a number of the F-14s only for parts.

[HumanShield]

hurray for topic hyjackers!! weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :cantbeli:

[AFACadet]

;)

[Argyll]

Have you ever heard about SIGINT ? You listen to enemy emissions for a certain period and you'll be able to separate targets from garbage.


The same SIGINT that was used to great effect in Bosnia? ;)

[obd]

ROFLMAO, the Iraniam F-14's date from the time of the Shah and are no longer operable. The F-4 Phantoms arnt much better......But I hear that if you build enough paper airplanes and throw them into the air when US bombers and fighter fly overhead at such cowardly altitudes then, Allah willing, they will go up to 30,000 feet AGL and into the engines of the invader-pigs-devil infidel-scum who defial and debase the pure Islamic :lol: Democratic :lol: Republic of Iran!!!!

[Andrekid]

Returning to photos, anyone have photos of military parade in Iran , if they painted anything on the ground where the tanks passed or has only guide lines??
Thanks
Andre

[Marmot1]

ROFLMAO, the Iraniam F-14's date from the time of the Shah and are no longer operable. The F-4 Phantoms arnt much better......But I hear that if you build enough paper airplanes and throw them into the air when US bombers and fighter fly overhead at such cowardly altitudes then, Allah willing, they will go up to 30,000 feet AGL and into the engines of the invader-pigs-devil infidel-scum who defial and debase the pure Islamic :lol: Democratic :lol: Republic of Iran!!!!

Well wrong their f-14 are in working condition and AFAIK they use russina RD-33 engines from MIG-29 also they were modernised by iran couple of years ago... I'v read the article about them last year and it was impresive that they developed whole spare parts production line.. AFAIK also russian eject seats were mounted, and they are now capable to use both western and eastern arment, what interesting iran have some C-130 in which they use also russian engines :-)

[UoUo]

In the past i saw a pic of an Hawk Anti air missile...converted to an Air Air missile..hang on an iranian F-14.

[Marmot1]

http://orbat.com/site/maps/map_files/iran_afbases.gif

Iran Air to Air victories since 1976 over 100 confirmed Air to Air victories only on F-14's so they seem to have some experience...
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_210.shtml
That was funny :-)
Note 1: on 7 January 1981 the F-14A in question fired a single AIM-54A against four MiG-23BNs flying in a tight formation. The missile is confirmed as having hit the leading MiG, blotting it out of the skies, and causing sufficient damage for other two to crash seconds later. The fourth MiG apparently came away. For more details see: "Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988", by Tom Cooper & Farzad Bishop, Schiffer Military Publishing, 2002: http://www.schifferbooks.com/military/aviationjetage/0764316699.html



http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/gallery/images/f4/c12-5805-7.jpg

Hercules
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/312721/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/226342/M/

F-14 Teheran 2001 Military exhibition
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/253671/M/

More at
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?airlinesearch=Iran%20-%20Air%20Force&distinct_entry=true

http://users.fmg.uva.nl/rsetoe/history/war_pictures/31_iran_iraq_war.jpg

http://users.fmg.uva.nl/rsetoe/history/war_pictures/32_iran_iraq_war.jpg

http://www.airliners.net/Airliners_net_image.file?filename=5/4/7/452745.jpg&ZyXtCe=MjAwNDQ2&id=452745&ViD=big

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/iran_iraq_war/war_pictures/war_pictures.php
interesting galery

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/iran_iraq_war/iran_iraq_war2.php
History of IRAQ-IRAN war

[Uninen]

That Hawk modification.. well its purpose it to engage and down large aircrafts..

Like AWACS anf TANKERS..

Link to the pic! (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=253671&WxsIERv=R3J1bW1hbiBGLTE0QSBUb21jYXQ%3D&WdsYXMg=SXJhbiAtIEFpciBGb3JjZQ%3D%3D&QtODMg=SW4gVGVocmFu&ERDLTkt=SXJhbg%3D%3D&ktODMp=U2VwdGVtYmVyIDIwMDE%3D&WNEb25u=QXJhc2ggTmFnaGliLUxhaG91dGk%3D&xsIERvdWdsY=&MgTUQtODMgKE=T24gZGlzcGxheSBpbiBhbiBleGhpYml0aW9uIGhlbGQgaW4gY29tbWVtb3JhdGlvbiBvZiB0aGUgOC15ZWFyIHdhciBhZ2FpbnN0IElyYXEuIFB1YmxpYyBwaG90b2dyYXBoeSBhbGxvd2VkIGZvciB0aGUgZmlyc3QgdGltZS4%3D&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=Mjg0MQ%3D%3D&NEb25uZWxs=MjAwMi0wNy0yMA%3D%3D&static=yes)
On display in an exhibition held in commemoration of the 8-year war against Iraq. Public photography allowed for the first time.

(Pic is from september 2001.. p-) )

http://homepage.tinet.ie/~steven/images/F-14_IRAN2.jpg
Full loads of AIM-7/9/54 and other aircraft is also carrying that Hawk AAM.

http://www.afwing.com/gallery/iran/7.jpg
Close up of Hawk AAM.

woot

[UoUo]

About what you so happy?

[Argyll]

Maybe he's Iranian and has a bit of pride in his Armed forces?
Same way you do with yours?

Not all Iranians are Nutters or extremists!!

[UoUo]

Oh....i didn't know that he's from iran.
Ok...if it from iran he have the right to be proud in is country.

:hug:

[Va_Dinger]

:lol:

In your dreams..

:lol:

Iran has F-14s and MiG-29s..

And its 'own' new fighter on the way..

Also and more importantly, they have 'double-digit SAMs'..

rofl

Those S-300s etc..


Janes puts less than ten of those F-14's as operational. Its been a long time since they've been able to get spare parts.

They are more than USAF can hack..

rofl

[Uninen]

:roll:

Im not from Iran..

But i do think that we shouldnt bash them either..

;)

Virtual Finland - Your Window on Finland (http://virtual.finland.fi/)

;)

[IDFM203]

Not all Iranians are Nutters or extremists!! Hey believe me Israelis know that !!… I posted this a while ago…I think you or others might find it interesting. (http://debka.com/article.php?aid=746)

Its those Nutters (hehe love those brit words :D ) and Islamic fundamentalists and their elements in that nation that have hijacked their whole agenda and have made thier offensive and hostile intentions known towards us, that is the real problem…the other Iranians I have no problem with.


As for this thread in general….my only problem with it is that all I see are Russian equipment in Iranian hands, I would love to see some pics of some Iranian homegrown products. (Yes even the copies ;) )

Hell just because I might not be a big fan of Iran now, doesn’t mean I don’t want to see pics of what they have now (other then what I saw in the military ;) )

Shalom :D

[Uninen]

[quote=Argyll]
I would love to see some pics of some Iranian homegrown products. (Yes even the copies ;)

Then you shall enjoy this:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7914&highlight=

Your welcome!

;)

[IDFM203]

Ok thanks for the link ;)


Interesting stuff there…nothing too impressive ;) (except their ballistic missiles), but interesting nonetheless.

Ok these two things piqued my interest. The first is this bullpup….is this some clone or is this a homegrown invented Iranian weapon?…and is there any more info on this.
http://members.rogers.com/norinco78/Iranianbullpup01.jpg

As for this, it looks like the German wiesel (sp?) and it seems like a great little thing, the only downside based on the postings from the German wiesel thread is the protection that it has for as was explained to me about the germen version, is that it is lightly protected.

Too bad (well too bad in the sense of our case, for if not that limitation, I would love for the IDF to use them) for it would be a great MOUT vehicle if it had better protection.

http://www.ciar.org/~ttk/mbt/mbt/mbt.iran.zolfaqar.jpg

Shalom :D

[Uninen]

I tryed to search for the specs of the rifle..

I came out empty handed..

:cantbeli:

Khaibar is its name..

Hmmm..

http://66.113.139.219/pics/1382/8/Politic/363.jpg
Hmmm..

Look at this pic closely..

Its not a new weapon at all..

!!!

Its conversion of old G3 rifles!!!

And so it in 7.62x51 calibre..

rofl

Barrel is the give away..

;)

[Praxus32]

See what happens is first, we send about 700 Tomahawk missiles in to hit C2 instilations. So they will have about zero capability to control their military in any coherant manner. We will send in Stealth Aircraft(yes I know Stealth is not invisible to radar, however it makes detection significantly harder exspecially with destroyed C2)

As soon as they put aircraft into the air, AWACS will pick it up and fighters(with pilots that have significantly more combat experiance and flight hours) will be dispatched to engage and destroy the enemy.


Word is that your few is the MOST, and that they are all (that werent shot down by Iraqis or lost in accidents..) operational.. reverse engineering can work miracles

So your saying a bunch of mostly antiquited SAM systems with no Command and Control and a few dozen F-14's(with inferior pilots) and are going to somehow stop the most experianced and most powerful Air Force in the world?

Please come back to reality.

[Uninen]

Please come back to reality.

Take your own advise kid.

First off..

You dont have 700 tomahawks.

Second Tomahawk is inaccurate as can be, and its easy to shoot down.

Lastly the god damn topic T-72 pics.

:petting:

[Operation Ivy]

and were not gonna attack Iran ;)

[UoUo]

Yes you are.

I am jew...trust me...we run your gov'...not you.
:D

Just kidding. :hug:

[M1A2U2]

Mustamato, if you spent as much time hating evil countries who torture their own people and dont allow freedom of speach as you do hating america, you might actually have an opinion that other people respect. Im sure when the US invaded Iraq you wanted Iraq to win. ITs funny, sometimes i wish you people could live on the earth without the US for a year. Then see what happens

[Marmot1]

Well to 1776 we lived withou US... and everything was the same... we also lived without Soviet Union to 1917 and everything was ok.. (We never lived without China :-D that might be interesting... ) Actualy living without US might be easier than without china... since most of computer parts are MADE IN CHINA or somewhere close... and even my HP laptop is made in...china (but company is from US) so for me (computer adict :lol: ) china is more important... rofl

[Marmot1]

See what happens is first, we send about 700 Tomahawk missiles in to hit C2 instilations. So they will have about zero capability to control their military in any coherant manner. We will send in Stealth Aircraft(yes I know Stealth is not invisible to radar, however it makes detection significantly harder exspecially with destroyed C2)

As soon as they put aircraft into the air, AWACS will pick it up and fighters(with pilots that have significantly more combat experiance and flight hours) will be dispatched to engage and destroy the enemy.


Word is that your few is the MOST, and that they are all (that werent shot down by Iraqis or lost in accidents..) operational.. reverse engineering can work miracles

So your saying a bunch of mostly antiquited SAM systems with no Command and Control and a few dozen F-14's(with inferior pilots) and are going to somehow stop the most experianced and most powerful Air Force in the world?

Please come back to reality.

Ha ha 700 at once or in pack?? 6+1GRATIS??? you don't have 700 at a time to shoot in one salvo or even in one day.... and remember they have radars also so they would know about atack also, probably they would strike first i.e. at your cariers or other stuff when things would get messy... and they have also air to sea misiles...

S-300 well if you say it's antique... remember russian civilian plane shoot down neak Krimea *****ula 2 years ago??? it was on 20000ft when it was downed (it was accident but very imperesive) also their local industry is hardened in war production
and those inferior pilots only on F-14 have over 100 confirmed AIR TO AIR kills (see my previous post) and how many AIR TO AIR have US pilots totaly after vietnam??? their pilots have experience...
I know that they would lose in longer conflict but iran is 3-4 times bigger than iraq and mostly mountainous so you will need to ocupy them and this would take no less than 350 000 troops (over 100 000 in iraq and it's not enaught) so your economy would suffer greatly on that war and AFAIK in 2004 you have 500 bilions hole in budget you want to make it black hole...??? BTW Iranian's are Pers not Arabs and their mentality is little diferent their patriotism is greater than you can imagine so it would be totaly idiotic to atack and ocupy them... since it would take more than 500 KIA and last thing there is no reason to atack them... they are not dangerous they didn't invaded anyone in last 70 years or more ....

[M1A2U2]

O yes everyone did OK before 1776 considering most of the world was colonised. Thanks

[Operation Ivy]

I dont see why some of you Europeans hate the US so much and keep saying are military cant do this and that, everything we do is wrong blah exc exc,what have we done to Europe to make you hate us besides give u aid?Correct me if im wrong :|

[ExtraT]

I dont see why some of you Europeans hate the US so much and keep saying are military cant do this and that, everything we do is wrong blah exc exc,what have we done to Europe to make you hate us besides give u aid?Correct me if im wrong :|

It's simple. Europians understand that they have lost the war for global domination. First they lost all of their colonies, and now they are starting to lose their DNA. They haven't fully figured out the second part, thoughbut they will, eventually. :)

[Marmot1]

I dont see why some of you Europeans hate the US so much and keep saying are military cant do this and that, everything we do is wrong blah exc exc,what have we done to Europe to make you hate us besides give u aid?Correct me if im wrong :|

It's simple. Europians understand that they have lost the war for global domination. First they lost all of their colonies, and now they are starting to lose their DNA. They haven't fully figured out the second part, thoughbut they will, eventually. :)

WTF ??? DNA??? second part??? hey remember who exterminated native americans and who discriminated black just only 40y ago???.... europe...... no... great democracy behind atlantic...yes


I don't say USA is bad but you are overconfident about your army and you think that you can invade everyone.... you had a lesson in vietnam and in somali that not always everything runs smooth... think twice before you say that: "yeah we can invade them..." of course it is easy to invade but it's harder to ocupy... and rebuild... remember war is always cruel no matter how humane you will try to make it always there are bodies....

[Uninen]

and now they are starting to lose their DNA.

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Americans should talk about that..

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

(White american already are minority..)

:petting:

[Falco]

and now they are starting to lose their DNA.

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Americans should talk about that..

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

(White american already are minority..)

:petting:

Hum ... no. 77% of the US population is white.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html

:petting:

[Uninen]

:cantbeli:

(i really cant..)

What ive read and heard its 50-50 or 49-51..

rofl

[Marmot1]

and now they are starting to lose their DNA.

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Americans should talk about that..

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

(White american already are minority..)

:petting:

Hum ... no. 77% of the US population is white.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html

:petting:

white 77.1%, black 12.9%, Asian 4.2%, Amerindian and Alaska native 1.5%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.3%, other 4% (2000)
note: a separate listing for Hispanic is not included because the US Census Bureau considers Hispanic to mean a person of Latin American descent (including persons of Cuban, Mexican, or Puerto Rican origin) living in the US who may be of any race or ethnic group (white, black, Asian, etc.)

Sorry but Hispanic group is largest AFAIK... some of them are white some black some asian some mixed... he probably had a "pure white" on mind...
(BTW I am not a racist it's just statistic and "pure white" is not better than any other to me)

[Uninen]

So i was right?

'European Americans' are the minority?

;)

[Falco]

There are a little over 38 million latinos in the US that's a little over 10% of the total US population. Hardly a majority. Now lets stop hijacking the thread.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762156.html

[ExtraT]

and now they are starting to lose their DNA.

Americans should talk about that..

(White american already are minority..)

:petting:

I have used the DNA term alittle incorrectly - I mostly meant the european culture (Although genetics play a big role in this too). Americans are, essentically immune to effect of immigrants, because their culture is based on immigrants to begin with. Europeans are not. Also, Europeans made the mistake of believing their own wild theories too much, and now this is being exploited by those seeking to conquer them. I can't say I pity them too much, though - they are geting exactly what they deserve. The funniest part is, that they still haven't figured it all out - they still think that they can convert all these immigrants into their own culture. Pathetic fools.

[serbian boy]

All this american air superiority is bull****! The FRY destroyed 163 NATO and american aircraft during the NATO aggression on our country, shot down dozens of Hunter-Seeker UAV's and even shot down one of your "invisible" bombers and badly damaged the other. And with what? An SA-3! actually 2 but the one just scratched it. And do you know what we did with the pieces? Packaged them and sent them to our friends in Russia and China. Now we have radars that can track even B-2's!
Suckers!
Sorry, we didn't know it was invisible!!!!!! rofl

[AFACadet]

heh, that was funny to read


please, some more

:lol: rofl

[Uninen]

:lol:

I dont know about the 163..

But the rest is true..

Including tens of UAVs shot down, also large numbers of cruise missiles, and at least 1 F-16 and 1 F-117 shotdown, plus another F-117 badly damaged.

;)

Plus that despite NATOs / USAs 'air supperiority' Serbs flew Strike missions in Kosovo and Albania and Recon missions to Macedonia..

Yet NATO was unable to fly battle field strike at all..

They tryed..

Lost A-10 badly shot up and two AH-64s downed as they collied trying to avoid Serbian MANPADS launched.

;)

[cold0]

I dont know about the 163..

But the rest is true..

Including tens of UAVs shot down, also large numbers of cruise missiles, and at least 1 F-16 and 1 F-117 shotdown, plus another F-117 badly damaged.



Plus that despite NATOs / USAs 'air supperiority' Serbs flew Strike missions in Kosovo and Albania and Recon missions to Macedonia..

Yet NATO was unable to fly battle field strike at all..

They tryed..

Lost A-10 badly shot up and two AH-64s downed as they collied trying to avoid Serbian MANPADS launched.



You are saying a pile of bull****, uninem. No AH-64 was downed by Serbs but they are lost in flying incidents (for the first one you can find even a CNN video where you can see the Apache hit the ground). The only aircraft lost are the F-16 and the F-117, plus a damaged F-15C (hit by 20mm shells of another F-15, you can find a photo on internet), two damaged A-10 and a damaged F-117. The Iraqi, in 1991, performed far better (42 confirmed kills). The Serbs fired 900 SAM (mainly SA-3 and SA-6, but even 106 MANPADS and other IR SAM), and lost 6 MIG-29s in air battle. They aren't able to stop NATO hitting where want over Serbia a Kossovo.

But you can even belived that Serbs have shooted 163 NATO fighters with olds soviet SAM and a twelve MIG-29s A; the funny thing is that Serb Air Force pratically confirmed the NATO claims after the war. You can even find the "serbian victories" in a Serb museum at Belgrade.

For the Iranian F-14: the Iranian have tried to trasform the Hawk SAM in a ait-to-air missile to find a alternative to the few AIM-54s remained. The project simply didn't work so it was dropped. The avionic of the F-14A isn't never upgraded, everyone interessed can find the photos of iranian cockpit on

Airforce Montly. There's a projet to change the original TF-30 engines wth the new russian ones but, actually, no F-14 was reengined with the Flanker engines. Anyway the Iranian Tomcats can launch the R-73 Archer in conjunction with the Mig-29's HMS. The number of the operative F-14 is indicated in 10-30.

For the Iranian MIG-29s, they are all type A, even the ex-Iraqi ones. The Iran have tried, some years ago, to buy ex- Moldavian MIG-29C but it was stopped by USA that bought the aircrafts and use, for a brief period, in Dissimilar Air Training combat.

Regards,

[Uninen]

cold0,

Your a class A retard did you know that?


I dont know about the 163..

But the rest is true..

Including tens of UAVs shot down, also large numbers of cruise missiles, and at least 1 F-16 and 1 F-117 shotdown, plus another F-117 badly damaged.

Lost A-10 badly shot up and two AH-64s downed as they collied trying to avoid Serbian MANPADS launched.

READ.

Btw,

Those AH-64s were attacked:


collied trying to avoid Serbian MANPADS

READ.


But you can even belived that Serbs have shooted 163 NATO fighters

Now,

Dumb ass, where did i say i belive? And if you was not talking to me, but to Serbian boy you should have mentioned it.


I dont know about the 163..

But the rest is true..

READ.

And translation for you if you still fail to understand:

They did not shot down 163 Nato airplanes, but the rest of the 'story' is correct.

:bash:

[cold0]

uninem, you are just an asshole so it's useless to speak with you rofl

For the Apache losses, just find what happens in any newspapers or on internet

[Uninen]

:|




http://personal.inet.fi/koti/uninen/uploads/Sekalaisii/tank_t72s_1_big.jpg



:|


http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/01015234-t-72.jpg



I dont even get you guys and your BS, i mean the god damn topic is Irans T-72 MBT pics and theres grand total of 2 posted here, both by me.. you should be shamed.

:cantbeli:


For the Apache losses, just find what happens in any newspapers or on internet

I suggest that you take a look at the AirForces Montlys that you said you had, mine says that there has been reports of MANPADs launched at those AH-64s, but that Pentagon doesnt want to talk about it..

:cantbeli:

[cold0]

......and reports of MANPADs launched at those AH-64s don't make mid-air collision. ;)
I repeat the first AH-64 crashed during a exercise that should proven the "military-power" of Tak Force Hawk. The incident was filmed and trasmitted for days on TVs.
But, as I say, it's useless rofl

[Uninen]

They collied trying to avoid........

But whatever..

Suits me actually even more that the US aviators are just crappy amateurs, that cant even fly at day light..

[AFACadet]

heh YES!!!!!!!

EXACTLY what I was looking for:


Suits me actually even more that the US aviators are just crappy amateurs, that cant even fly at day light..


please, more, MORE, MORE!!!!

rofl :lol:

[serbian boy]

Coldo, your an asshole, 1 F-16! What are you ****ing nuts! The only reason you didn't see anything on tv about downed U.S. planes was because the government didn't want you to see how a small country like Yugoslavia was wupping the Amercian/NATO air forces ass! :slap:
In that 76 odd day campaign of terror on a country fighting terrorism, the FRY inflicted some of the heaviest loses on the American airforce ever.
And ancient soviet sams!, obviously there not ancient considering they shot down an F-117!
Sorry We Didn't Know It Was Invisible!

[-Max2-]

Coldo, your an asshole, 1 F-16! What are you f*** nuts! The only reason you didn't see anything on tv about downed U.S. planes was because the government didn't want you to see how a small country like Yugoslavia was wupping the Amercian/NATO air forces ass!
In that 76 odd day campaign of terror on a country fighting terrorism, the FRY inflicted some of the heaviest loses on the American airforce ever.
And ancient soviet sams!, obviously there not ancient considering they shot down an F-117!
Sorry We Didn't Know It Was Invisible!

:roll:

Another victim of Serbian propaganda...

[serbian boy]

If you don't beleive me go to www.aeronautics.ru
go to archive,yugoslavia,operation allied force and then to nato aircraft downs and hits.

[serbian boy]

MAX, I am sorry you been infected by the evil lies at that time but most people didn't really give a **** about Milosevic or Bill Clinton or whatever.
They were just trying to defend their home. I know! I was there! So don't go talking about Serbian Propaganda! The only reason they bombed nursery homes and the hospital where I was born at! THATS RIGHT! Was Beacuse Clinton saw it as an oppurtunity to get attention of his monica scandal! So you have no right to talk about it! The only sad part is they didn't execute one of those cowardly bitches who they caught who dropped bombs on children was becuase they were afraid to do it.

[-Max2-]

LOL

A Russian site. :cantbeli: Very objective... :roll:

Almost all Russians (if not all) were opposed to this war.

[serbian boy]

Max, you belgian ass wipe! Read carefully beyong the .ru it shows you the official NATO losses! ok? OFFICIAL NATO losses.
And of course the russians opposed the war, there are only allies! DUH!

[AFACadet]

No, SB,


You're the one that has lived in a world of lies and a dream land.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/ is about as accurate as Snow White and the Seven Dorfs.



I can count on ONE hand the amount of manned US planes shot down.

[serbian boy]

I now live in Canada and plan to join the Canadian armed forces, but I used to live in Yugoslavia so how do you figure I am living in a land of lies and dreams! What the **** does that mean you numbnut! What are you some B.C. pothead! They should kill all of those mother****ers!

[serbian boy]

Snow white and the seven dwarfs! what the ****! they shouldn't allow people under 15 years of age on this site. but thats okay your just an "special" exemption :petting:

[AFACadet]

oh, my my!!


what anger




Be sure to take some anger management classes before you do anything.


You're the one that has lived in a world of lies and a dream land.

HAS

:roll:

[-Max2-]

Max, you belgian ass wipe! Read carefully beyong the .ru it shows you the official NATO losses! ok? OFFICIAL NATO losses.
And of course the russians opposed the war, there are only allies! DUH!

Official NATO losses ?! LOL rofl I have read a similar Serbian article where they said that NATO lost dozens of aircrafts including B-2s, F-15Cs, AWACS, Tornados, Canadian F-18s and German MiG-29s and F-4s (!). In your site, they even said that Serbia shoot down a Belgian F-16 and captured his pilot... :roll: OK, so where are the wreckages of all these planes ? And why nobody here speak about these losses ? (families for example?)

But like Coldo said, it's useless to speak with you...

[serbian boy]

where are you from you racist sonofabitch! how would you feel if somebody bombed your country and you had have to live under unfair and injust sanctions for almost a decade! :fork:

[serbian boy]

OK, so where are the wreckages of all these planes ? And why nobody here speak about these losses ? (families for example?)
The families were paid up to not speak up about their "loved ones" missing! Okay! Simple as that! If youre a huge country like the U.S. and youre waging a unjust war against a smaller foe like F.R.Y. and youre taking it up the ass, do you want some teary eyed bitch talking about how her son was a pilot and he's been missing since he started bombing children in yugoslavia on CNN! I Don't think so! Dumbass! You racist murder!!!!!!!!! :slap:

[RuSoKaR]

Ok if you believe those NATO losses, could you show us some other sourses?

And there are someother people who are effected by other propaganda. woot

[serbian boy]

Who the hell are you now!!!!!!!!!
:fork:
:slap:
:-*$

[serbian boy]

It's sources not "sourses"
DUH!!!!
DUH!!!!
Please don't even get involved!
sourses rofl

[ibstolidude]

@ SerbianBoy - Does it bother you that you now live in a country that actively participated in the bombing (strike sorties) of Serbia and also contributes ground forces to the occupation?

Not trying to be rude... you just seem hostile to the US, I am curious if this plays out with living in Canada as they too participated.

[Uninen]

serbian boy,

You happen to be 'FRY2' by any change?

:D

[wholagun]

Ok aside and very off topic sorry Unien.

Two words to Americans that think they can invade Europe: Germany and Russia. :D If that don't make ya **** your pants then I don't know what does. :D Thats right fear us. woot woot



Just a joke folks, seeing we're talking about **** all I though Id add fuel to the fire. I wasn't being serious I was just trying to be funny so don't go off on me.

Sorry Unein tommorow I will try and find pics of T 72s to make up for it.

[cold0]

As I say, it's useless try to speak with sebian boy. It's just an asshole :fork:

http://www.aeronautics.ru/ is the most biased aeronautic site on internet rofl

For Uninen, the two 'copeter incidents happened during night exercises, but I agree with you that Task Force Hawk made a poor performance!

In the end NATO choised to not send the AH-64 in battle..... :(

[Uninen]

In the end NATO choised to not send the AH-64 in battle..... :(

That was because they knew how effective were the Yugos defences..

I just wonder, that how can they figure that the defences are too effective, if the defences are ineffective as you and Pentagon try to make us to belive..

Also about the targets hit.. at the time NATO reported that it had destroyed all Yugos MBTs in Kosovo, but today, its admitted that they in fact destroyed 13 or even less.. just like MBT / IFV / APC kill claims from Desert Storm have now dropped to 1/3 of the orginal claims..

:cantbeli:

And Serbs were able to make airstrikes and recon missions with their J-22 and MiG-21R aircrafts at will, now how is that possible if USAF ruled the skys?

Hint: AirForces Monthly 2002 April.

;)

[cold0]

Ok, Uninen now you seem more reasonable, so I don't start another flamewar but just to say my opinion: ;)

1- What the NATO feared was the low-level AAA and especially the last MANPADs (SA-16 and even the more advanced SA-18). These waepons have a short rage and max height of 10.000 (more or less). So they are useless agaist a jet fighter flying at 15,000 but they can be deadly against the slow and low fliying attack helichopters. Especially if the EW suit is no so good as the example of the Apache in Kosovo '99.

2- For tha damage inflicted to the Yugo Army I generally agree you. The serbs removed part of their destroyed equipments but, anyway, the effective losses of the Yugo tanks, APCs ect. are less that NATO, in a first moment, claims. This for two reason: the Serbs didn't have the necessity to deploy their armored forces to fights the Kossovars, so they concealed and camouflaged the tanks ect. The second reason was that NATo didn't use Special Forces to find targets for the Allies airforces, as we have see in A'stan. There were a political reason for this; the NATO political class wanted the minimal level possible so it was denied to send SF in Kossovo

3- What bring Milo and his friends to stop the operations in Kossovo and to surrender in the end was the strategic air campaign against the Serbia and not the tactical missions against the Yugo Army in Kosovo.

[Uninen]

1. I know all about SA-18, i know how to operate the damn thing.. ;) and btw, its effective against anything in its range.. :) EW or not, actually, only thing that even can be effective against it is a decoy flare, but SA-18s IR / UV range seeker usually renders those ineffective.. :)

(SA-18 is in the same line with latest FIM-92s.. or even better.. :) )

2. There was SF in kosovo, giving target designations, but not on large scale, as they would have been easy prey for JVA and PJP.

3. That is correct.

[cold0]

1- Good for you that in Finland Army you have the SA-18. That thing is a real killer! :D
The only thing effective against the advanced IR sensor ot the Groose is the new AN/ALQ-212 but, for what I know, it 's not deployed even in the US Army:

AN/ALQ-212 Advanced Threat Infrared Countermeasures (ATIRCM) In addition to the above LRUs, the ATIRCM adds a Jam Head Control Unit (JHCU, baseline of one), which performs the laser and lamp jamming control functions for the Infrared Jam Heads (IRJHs, baseline two), once provided a missile hand-off from the CMWS. Also added are: an Infrared Jam Laser (IRJL, baseline one), which provides laser energy to the IRJHs; and an Improved Countermeasures Dispenser (ICMD, baseline one government furnished equipment AN/ALE-47 sequencer and two "smart" dispensers). ATIRCM is required to demonstrate integration with the Army Suite of Integrated Radio Frequency Countermeasures (SIRFC). The Navy Integrated Defensive Electronic Counter Measures (IDECM) program is required to demonstrate integration of CMWS in the IDECM suite.

2- If you have any infod about the SF in Kossovo conflict plaese share!
I haven't found anything on the subject.

Regards,

[Uninen]

cold0,

To point nro 2: There has been reports at least of SAS / SBS teams on the ground.. :)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/318093.stm

Crack SAS troops are thought to have penetrated Serb lines in a crucial operation to guide Harrier bomber pilots to their targets.

Ministry of Defence comments that RAF Harriers GR7s have been able to attack despite thick cloud have led to increased speculation that the Special Air Service is on the ground in Kosovo.

[cold0]

Thankx, it's just something! :)

So, I can limited my asshole list rofl in this site to Serbian Boy...

[Uninen]

Uhm..

About the article i gave a link to..

"In terms of quality of soldiers there is not a single member of the Serb army that comes within 100 miles of their professionalism."

rofl :fork:

My ass.

:cantbeli:

[-Max2-]

The families were paid up to not speak up about their "loved ones" missing! Okay! Simple as that! If youre a huge country like the U.S. and youre waging a unjust war against a smaller foe like F.R.Y. and youre taking it up the ass, do you want some teary eyed bitch talking about how her son was a pilot and he's been missing since he started bombing children in yugoslavia on CNN! I Don't think so! Dumbass! You racist murder!!!!!!!!!

Damn you are really paranoiad, SB... rofl

And sorry but your site prove nothing at all. Where are the pics of downed B-2s, F-15Cs, A-10s, etc ? Where are the pics of downed NATO pilots ? Anybody can write that NATO lost "dozens" of aircrafts but without any proofs: NO credibility...

These guys are just saying what they want to hear...

[ibstolidude]

And Serbs were able to make airstrikes and recon missions with their J-22 and MiG-21R aircrafts at will, now how is that possible if USAF ruled the skys?

Hint: AirForces Monthly 2002 April.
;)
- at will? That means when ever, however, whereever they would choose.

You sure you mean that?
hint - Yugoslavian Airforce's published statistics on A/C lost in flight.

Even the site you posted contradicts your posting! http://www.aeronautics.ru/indexmain.htm

And I love the stuff about Tuzla Airbase getting BOMBED!!! hahahah atleast the guy admits he cannot confirm it. A strike package was sent. You can see the photos' of it on that sight. They were not successful. They did not bomb it AT WILL.

Serbia has a proud and excellant military history, they do not need people making **** up for them. Let their histroy and lineage speak for itself, but lets not pretend that they ran air mission AT WILL.

I hope I miss understood your post.

Serbs did however make excellant use of concealment & ruse for their ground forces that played hell with the high altitude bombing by NATO. I still have some photos of disabled armor that was left inside of a house. As in parked inside, under the roof.

[AlexNenadic]

SerbianBoy, let me set you straight.

NATO lost 2 planes to hostile fire in Operation Allied Force, 1 USAF F-16C and 1 USAF F-117A.

www.aeronautics.ru was put together by Venik, a Ukrainian music student and an avid US hater (living in the US of course!). He has been banned from such sites as www.acig.org, which is the most respected military aviation forum on the internet.

Why are you in Canada anyway? If you don't believe in the country, GET THE HELL OUT and go back to wherever you are from in Serbia.

[-Max2-]

AMEN

PS: i like your signature... :lol:

[AlexNenadic]

Browsing through this topic from the beginning, I saw a whole bunch of garbage posted, especially armor related.

Training and crews are ALWAYS the key factor, and US armored units would kick the crap out of any 3rd rate army the Iranians would throw against them. Just compare the defense budgets and how much is spent on training in the US, you can't beat $$$$$$$$$.

[RuSoKaR]

Btw it's only about the tanks in the army, there are anti-tank systems, which Iran defenetly has more then Iraq did.



Serbian boy makes me want to become albanian :-*$

[serbian boy]

Okay Alex, I love living In Canada and I didn't and don't blame Canada at all. I blame the U.S. and not the U.S. like the country but the politicians and their stupid foreign policy. The KLA had active ties with Al-Qeida, do you think the U.S. wouldv'e bombed us if they knew that Al-Qeida was gonna **** up WTC? We were fighting terrorism. And I am disappointed Canada joined the war but they are part of NATO and they were called up so they "had" to answer the call. The US started bombing and not Canada.A whats your guy's problem? do you support terrorist organizations or something? I'm sorry but you guy's seemed to think that defending a minority against rape and murder is, wrong! I my have gotten a bit over emotional but every were I go, if you say your from FRY or SCG or whatever,people are like oh look here comes a murder or an animal or something. How would you like if somebody thought of your ethnicity or nationality like that? And I'll admit we probably didn't shoot down some 163 but I know for sure we shot down more than 2! And also Max you didn't see anything about B-2's because they didn't participate!
Also Milosevic stopped the war because he was a pussy, not because the U.S. destroyed JA in kosovo, they only destroyed about 13 armoured vehicles max, the rest were well made and emplaced decoys, they even admited themselves. Milosevic resighned because NATO started destroying his houses and vacation spots! Obviously the man didn't like living in a bunker! :lol:

[AFACadet]

And also Max you didn't see anything about B-2's because they didn't participate!


Yes, they did. It was their first comabt missions. They hit high-value and air defense targets.

[serbian boy]

Some proof of this please?

[ibstolidude]

blah

[serbian boy]

Geez, I try to apologize and you guys act like little kids. Whats your guy's problem?

[AlexNenadic]

OK I see where you are coming from, but what makes you think the US started the bombing campaign? CF-18s were in the very first strike package that crossed over the FLOT.

Like AFACadet said, B-2s were used in 1999 for the very first time.

I am sorry but unless you can provide me with the tail numbers of shot down NATO airplanes I will have to say that only two were lost. It is kind of hard to hide a loss when each single airframe is registered.

Look, I understand what KLA (or UCK/whatever else they go by) did in Kosovo, I was close enough to be affected daily (Belgrade 1995-1999). They are terrorist assholes who should be brought to justice. But the fact remains that Serbs yet again tried to solve the problem in the worst possible way. You CANNOT try to displace 600,000 people and hope nobody notices. Imagine if the US in Iraq tried to empty the Sunni triangle, how would that work?? Fighting insurgents/terrorists and systematic ethnic cleansing are two very different things.

[Jack Mehoff]

and now they are starting to lose their DNA.

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Americans should talk about that..

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

(White american already are minority..)

:petting:


What the......?!

[Jack Mehoff]

SerbianBoy, let me set you straight.

NATO lost 2 planes to hostile fire in Operation Allied Force, 1 USAF F-16C and 1 USAF F-117A.

www.aeronautics.ru was put together by Venik, a Ukrainian music student and an avid US hater (living in the US of course!). He has been banned from such sites as www.acig.org, which is the most respected military aviation forum on the internet.

Why are you in Canada anyway? If you don't believe in the country, GET THE HELL OUT and go back to wherever you are from in Serbia.


Because his country sucks and that's why he moved to Canada :lol: woot

[Jack Mehoff]

Coldo, your an asshole, 1 F-16! What are you f*** nuts! The only reason you didn't see anything on tv about downed U.S. planes was because the government didn't want you to see how a small country like Yugoslavia was wupping the Amercian/NATO air forces ass! :slap:
In that 76 odd day campaign of terror on a country fighting terrorism, the FRY inflicted some of the heaviest loses on the American airforce ever.
And ancient soviet sams!, obviously there not ancient considering they shot down an F-117!
Sorry We Didn't Know It Was Invisible!

You are ****ing telling me the American/NATO pilots' relatives, love ones, friends and colleagues didn't say anything when their government trying to cover up MIA pilots? rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

If my brother get shot down along with his plane and the government is trying to cover his disappearance, do you know what i would do? I'll go to a local TV station and reveal the whole thing. The next thing you know is I'm going to be on the front page in New York times and have a chit chat with Diane Sawyer.


I've heard a lot of weird ass conspiracy but this is IT. rofl rofl rofl rofl

WELCOME TO THE DIGITAL AGE DUMBASS

[Marmot1]

Okay Alex, I love living In Canada and I didn't and don't blame Canada at all. I blame the U.S. and not the U.S. like the country but the politicians and their stupid foreign policy. The KLA had active ties with Al-Qeida, do you think the U.S. wouldv'e bombed us if they knew that Al-Qeida was gonna f*** up WTC? We were fighting terrorism. And I am disappointed Canada joined the war but they are part of NATO and they were called up so they "had" to answer the call. The US started bombing and not Canada.A whats your guy's problem? do you support terrorist organizations or something? I'm sorry but you guy's seemed to think that defending a minority against rape and murder is, wrong! I my have gotten a bit over emotional but every were I go, if you say your from FRY or SCG or whatever,people are like oh look here comes a murder or an animal or something. How would you like if somebody thought of your ethnicity or nationality like that? And I'll admit we probably didn't shoot down some 163 but I know for sure we shot down more than 2! And also Max you didn't see anything about B-2's because they didn't participate!
Also Milosevic stopped the war because he was a pussy, not because the U.S. destroyed JA in kosovo, they only destroyed about 13 armoured vehicles max, the rest were well made and emplaced decoys, they even admited themselves. Milosevic resighned because NATO started destroying his houses and vacation spots! Obviously the man didn't like living in a bunker! :lol:

Relax serbian I like serbs :hug: they are slavs just like me woot I have also friends in belgrad woot and I never thinked about whole nation as a murderers nation, but you must admit that there were etchnical clensing commited by your countrymens and your nation tried to protect them against justice and that looked relly bad from outside...

[cold0]

Serbian Boy, if try to apologize better for you. I haven't offended you until you started. I have never speak of political reasons of Kosovo war and, frankly, I'm more sympathetic with the serbs than the albanians, until your countrymen started the ecthnical cleansing.

For the NATO losses, I think it's clear what serbs have really shooted down and what it's sheer propaganda. And this isn't an offence to the serbian soldiers that fought against NATO in 1999. Especially the Yugo pilots that fought during the first days showed a great courage, flying against a superior enemy without hope of victory.

Regards,

[Kingpin]

Serbian Boy, if try to apologize better for you. I haven't offended you until you started. I have never speak of political reasons of Kosovo war and, frankly, I'm more sympathetic with the serbs than the albanians, until your countrymen started the ecthnical cleansing.

For the NATO losses, I think it's clear what serbs have really shooted down and what it's sheer propaganda. And this isn't an offence to the serbian soldiers that fought against NATO in 1999. Especially the Yugo pilots that fought during the first days showed a great courage, flying against a superior enemy without hope of victory.

Regards,

What really was shot down is still big question. If i'm not mistaken Marmot wrote some time ago about some GIs sent to home as car accident victims while they was killed at border with east Germany.

The same about planes. 2 kills were confirmed by video footage but... both sides stated approximately the same number of UAVs downed (about 30) but serbs provided evidences for very low number of UAVs (3-4). What if more aircrafts and helos was downed but as every sensitive matter real number may be not disclosed (note that US forces confirmed losses only after serbs showed video footages)

[cold0]

Well, the post war serbs claims confirmed the NATO losses, so I don't see the need to argue about the NATO losses in the Kosovo War but it's just my opinion... :D

The fact that serbs didn't showed the downed UAV is that they simply don't bother about these small drones without a pilot. They have more the 30 wrecages of these UAV so there wasn't to show all of them.
For the delayed time from the serbs claims and the NATO admitted losses is generally imputabled to the necessity to give time to CSAR helicopters to find and reusce the downed pilots.
NATO have admitted the 2 losses only after that the CSAR have reusced the pilots.

[serbian boy]

Okay, off topic of nato bombing for a sec', I know that in Kosovo there was no ethnic cleansing of Albanians and no displacement of 600,000 Albanians from Kosovo. My uncle and one of my best friends were sent to Kosovo when they were called up from there town of Kurshumlija-20km from Kosovo-Metohija municipality border in June 1997 as part of a reserve unit attached to the 221st motorized infantry brigade. The MUP and some army units were sent to Kosovo as far back as 1995 when troubles started. 4 years before NATO aggression. An also Arkan's Tigers and some Serbian White Eagles units were sent as a storm trooper type units to quickly counterattack UCK attacks on police. They might have commited crimes because they really weren't under command as much as YA and MUP. But they were pulled out of kosovo in 1997 the latest and replaced by Army and counterterrorist units. My uncle told me while serving there 1997-1998 his unit was one of the ones deepest invovled in fighting and also deepest in UCK territory. They were shown how to clear homes and occupied villages but were strictly told to treat innocents under human rights leagislation laws. The captured UCK prisoners were a different matter. It was practically like Vietnam, you just had to clear suspected villages, towns with aggresivness to protect your men. The stuff you hard about later during bombing was from reports almost 4 years old of Tigers and White Eagles commiting crimes. :hug:

[serbian boy]

Wacko Jacko Mehoff, how would you know SCG sucks huh?
Youre a ****ing redneck dude!
****ing Racist! :fork: :slap: :bash: :backhand: !!!!!!!!!!

[Jack Mehoff]

I'm a redneck?? Since when? Maybe you should check the "what's your nationality/background" thread in the Off Topic forum rofl Get the **** back to Serbia if you think your country is so great you dumb****. Why did you immigrated to Canada anyway?

"BOY", send me a PM if you want to meet me in person so we could "talk"

[Uninen]

Jack,

Actually.. you do sound / look like just a typical redneck here at the forum, but if im not mistaken, you was Vietnamese.. :) Redneck as such.. :|

[AlexNenadic]

An also Arkan's Tigers and some Serbian White Eagles units were sent as a storm trooper type units to quickly counterattack UCK attacks on police. They might have commited crimes because they really weren't under command as much as YA and MUP. But they were pulled out of kosovo in 1997 the latest and replaced by Army and counterterrorist units. My uncle told me while serving there 1997-1998 his unit was one of the ones deepest invovled in fighting and also deepest in UCK territory. They were shown how to clear homes and occupied villages but were strictly told to treat innocents under human rights leagislation laws. The captured UCK prisoners were a different matter. It was practically like Vietnam, you just had to clear suspected villages, towns with aggresivness to protect your men. The stuff you hard about later during bombing was from reports almost 4 years old of Tigers and White Eagles commiting crimes. :hug:

Dude you are cracking me up. There was no ethnic cleansing? Do you remember what happened when Croats kicked out about 500,000 Serbs from Republika Sprska Krajina (who then moved to Serbia)? Thats right, the Serbian government DENIED any existence of such refugees (I was one of them) for well over a year. Yeah lets all believe what they said, they must have been telling the truth, because I officially didn't exist in Serbia! :bash:

[Kingpin]

An also Arkan's Tigers and some Serbian White Eagles units were sent as a storm trooper type units to quickly counterattack UCK attacks on police. They might have commited crimes because they really weren't under command as much as YA and MUP. But they were pulled out of kosovo in 1997 the latest and replaced by Army and counterterrorist units. My uncle told me while serving there 1997-1998 his unit was one of the ones deepest invovled in fighting and also deepest in UCK territory. They were shown how to clear homes and occupied villages but were strictly told to treat innocents under human rights leagislation laws. The captured UCK prisoners were a different matter. It was practically like Vietnam, you just had to clear suspected villages, towns with aggresivness to protect your men. The stuff you hard about later during bombing was from reports almost 4 years old of Tigers and White Eagles commiting crimes. :hug:

Dude you are cracking me up. There was no ethnic cleansing? Do you remember what happened when Croats kicked out about 500,000 Serbs from Republika Sprska Krajina (who then moved to Serbia)? Thats right, the Serbian government DENIED any existence of such refugees (I was one of them) for well over a year. Yeah lets all believe what they said, they must have been telling the truth, because I officially didn't exist in Serbia! :bash:

So you're victim of ethnic cleansing? What do you think about ethnic cleansing performed by Albanian and Croats. May be it is time for NATO to start bombing campaign? No? :fork: Argh, damn world...

[serbian boy]

Alex Nenadic, are you a serb? If so you really must love the west! :lol: :hug:

[serbian boy]

and wacko jacko, please don't talk about being some tough guy, you can pump iron and make **** up about how you're some John Rambo and obviuosly we can continue to argue about this for hundreds of more hours but it' s pointless so let's just come to the conclusion that all the sides in the war were guilty and that everybody's nationality/country has it's own good and bad points, okay? :lol: :hug:

[Falco]

and wacko jacko, please don't talk about being some tough guy, you can pump iron and make **** up about how you're some John Rambo and obviuosly we can continue to argue about this for hundreds of more hours but it' s pointless so let's just come to the conclusion that all the sides in the war were guilty and that everybody's nationality/country has it's own good and bad points, okay? :lol: :hug:

And what's so funny about that?

[serbian boy]

Ah nothing, I was just trying to end the argument, is there a problem? :|

[AlexNenadic]

So you're victim of ethnic cleansing? What do you think about ethnic cleansing performed by Albanian and Croats. May be it is time for NATO to start bombing campaign? No? :fork: Argh, damn world...

Oh geez, what ethnic cleansing by the Albanians? Kind of hard to pull of don't when you're the minority don't you think?

I am VERY pissed that Croatia didn't get punished for the **** they pulled off, but the only reason that didn't happen is the idiocy of the Serb leadership who directly turned their back to the UN (the standard "our Russian brothers will help us" bull**** that has been screwing Serbs over for the past 200 years).

You'd think after 1812, WWI, and WWII they'd get the point that Russia WON'T help?

[Kingpin]

So you're victim of ethnic cleansing? What do you think about ethnic cleansing performed by Albanian and Croats. May be it is time for NATO to start bombing campaign? No? :fork: Argh, damn world...

Oh geez, what ethnic cleansing by the Albanians? Kind of hard to pull of don't when you're the minority don't you think?

I am VERY pissed that Croatia didn't get punished for the **** they pulled off, but the only reason that didn't happen is the idiocy of the Serb leadership who directly turned their back to the UN (the standard "our Russian brothers will help us" bull**** that has been screwing Serbs over for the past 200 years).

You'd think after 1812, WWI, and WWII they'd get the point that Russia WON'T help?

Albanian drove almost all of serbian population out of Kosovo and i suppose that they wanted this long before NATO invasion.

What about turks ans nazi?

And don't mix governoment and plain people. Volunteers tried to help all times.

[RATKO]

Samo vas gledam i pitam se kada cete prestati da lupate gluposti o Kosovu i Metohiji i ratu U Kursumliji je bila baza 354 motorizovane brigade-tamo sam proveo neko vreme pre nego sto sam prebacen na Kosovo Na Kosovu nije bilo arkanovaca ni belih orlova ni pre a ni za vreme rata bilo je nekih idiota koji su izigravali neke garde ali su to bili obicne bitange i nista vise
Pre 98 nije bilo vecih operacija vojske i policije na Kosovu protiv uck Do tada je situacija bila pod kontrolom i najvise je licila na severnu irsku osamdesetih godina i policija je izlazila na kraj sa njima bez vecih problema i gubitaka Sto se tice vojske bilo bi dovoljno da se provozamo tenkovima van kasarne i sipci bi se usrali od straha sranje je pocelo tek kad su ucke pocele da kupuju oruzje u albaniji gde je vladalo bezakonje i prebacuju ga s ove strane Prokletija
ALEKSA nisu nas Rusi nikada izdali 1812 Ruse je napala francuska i Rusi su morali da sklope mir sa turcima Isposlovali su nam autonomiju u okviru turske carevine ali smo mi to odbili i pojeli govno zbog toga
U ratovima za nezavisnost(1876-1878) bio je ogroman broj dobrovoljaca iz Rusije na nasoj strani ukljucujuci i glavnokomanujuceg generala Cernjajeva
U prvom svetskom ratu jedino smo od Rusije dobili besplatnu pomoc u naoruzanju nasi vajni zapadni saveznici su nam sve naplatili ukljucujuci i pertle za cipele srpskog vojnika Kada je Srpska vojska umirala na obalama albanije nasi veliki zapadni saveznici su to posmatrali i odbijali da nam pomognu sve dok ruski car nije zapretio da ce sklopiti separatni mir sa nemcima ako se ne pomogne Srbima Tek onda su nas prebacili na Krf
A koliko se secam puc 27 marta 1941 koji nas je gurnuo u rat sa nemcima je organizovala engleska obavestajna sluzba I koliko se secam englezi su 1943 izdali Drazu Mihajlovica i JVO pa su komunisti pobedili u jugoslaviji

[serbian boy]

I didn't say my uncle served in Kursumlija, I only said he lived there and not that he served with the 221st there. :lol:

[RATKO]

maybe he was with 211th armoured brigade from Nis :D

[serbian boy]

Yeah thats the one, I couldn't remember where that unit was from.
Thank You! :D