Italian Opposition Would Remove Troops from Iraq

[Bluezoo]

Italian Opposition Would Remove Troops from Iraq
By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE, ROME


Two main Italian opposition parties said Nov. 3 they would immediately withdraw Italian troops from Iraq if they win a general election next April.

“In the event of victory, we will decide to withdraw our soldiers the very moment the government takes office,” said Francesco Rutelli, head of Margherita, second strongest party in the center-left opposition lineup, in an interview with the magazine l’Espresso.

Massimo D’Alema, head of the ex-communist Democratic Left, the main opposition party, said he shared the views of opposition leader Romano Prodi.

“If the center left achieves power and Italian troops are still in Iraq, they will be withdrawn,” said D’Alema.

Prodi said last month he intended to pull Italian troops out of Iraq if he won the election, saying they are seen as an occupying force.

The return of the Italian contingent, demanded by a majority of public opinion, looks set to be a major theme of the election campaign, causing problems for Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, head of a center-right coalition government.

A total of 26 Italian soldiers have been killed in Iraq since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion that ousted Saddam Hussein.

Berlusconi’s government sent some 3,000 soldiers to Iraq but said earlier this year it would start a gradual withdrawal.

After a visit with President George W. Bush in Washington on Oct. 31, Berlusconi told journalists “the American government fears political change in Italy because it knows the plans of the left.”

Berlusconi has more than once said he would like to withdraw the Italians, indicating that withdrawal plans were in hand.

But he has had to admit that a decision required American endorsement.

“We are the closest allies of the United States and we have never thought of withdrawing before the mission is complete,” he said in Washington.

.....continued
http://defensenews.com/story.php?F=1221596&C=europe

[ed316]

Pandering for votes...they know the Italian population want troops out so they are Using it to their advantage. Just like Zapatero in Spain.

[Weasel]

Pandering for votes...they know the Italian population want troops out so they are Using it to their advantage. Just like Zapatero in Spain.

Yes, they want to fulfill the population´s demand. Just like Zapatero in Spain.

[M1A2U2]

Weasel, we all know you want the mission to fail you can save your breath

[M1A2U2]

The return of the Italian contingent, demanded by a majority of public opinion

what is the italian contingent?

[Omaha]

Sadly enough, the same thing that played out in Spain, is what is playing out in Italy.

Just seems like we can't trust the majority of the European people if this is a flowing trend.

[Weasel]

Sadly enough, the same thing that played out in Spain, is what is playing out in Italy.

Just seems like we can't trust the majority of the European people if this is a flowing trend.
It´s not a new trend. Even in countries like the UK, Spain, Italy - which supported the war - the majority of the population was against the war. They supported their own troops but they were againt the invasion.

[ed316]

It´s not a new trend. Even in countries like the UK, Spain, Italy - which supported the war - the majority of the population was against the war. They supported their own troops but they were againt the invasion.

not a suprise, really.

[M1A2U2]

It´s not a new trend. Even in countries like the UK, Spain, Italy - which supported the war - the majority of the population was against the war. They supported their own troops but they were againt the invasion.

Well in case you havent noticed the invasion is over.

[Macs.]

Sadly enough, the same thing that played out in Spain, is what is playing out in Italy.

Just seems like we can't trust the majority of the European people if this is a flowing trend.

Just like many europeans can't trust US politics on satellite pictures showing WMDs in Iraq.


What do you expect ? Of course the Italians want no troops in iraq.

[Weasel]

Well in case you havent noticed the invasion is over.
Now the left flank is safe?

[Count Lippe]

Well in case you havent noticed the invasion is over.

Where's sickofpretenders when you need him?

[Atlantic Friend]

what is the italian contingent?

2,900 troops IIRC.

I was under the impression that Berlusconi too favors the withdrawal.

[Omaha]

Granted, even if you completely hate the war, and you think us Americans lied our asses off for blood and oil, you do understand that if everyone just picks up and leaves, the Iraqi people are screwed.

I just don't see how just because you were against the war, you could be against the Iraqi people. Do you not understand that we MUST finish what ever it is we started, right or wrong?

Please tell me none of you disagree

[Count Lippe]

2,900 troops IIRC.

I was under the impression that Berlusconi too favors the withdrawal.
Yeah, he would favor everything that gives him voters!rofl

[RS_Leo1A5]

I just don't see how just because you were against the war, you could be against the Iraqi people. Do you not understand that we MUST finish what ever it is we started, right or wrong?
Nobody said the American forces would pull out...
It's their war, of course they can stay and finish their job.

[caridon]

Granted, even if you completely hate the war, and you think us Americans lied our asses off for blood and oil, you do understand that if everyone just picks up and leaves, the Iraqi people are screwed.

I just don't see how just because you were against the war, you could be against the Iraqi people. Do you not understand that we MUST finish what ever it is we started, right or wrong?

Please tell me none of you disagree

That statement could be used to jusify any invation ever. It is a clasical logical falacy (http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html#bifurcation) you claim that there are only 2 opotions. 1) the US(and others) stay an all is well or the US(and others) leave and everything goes to hell.

There are many other options available. (my favorite ever since 2003 has been replacement of the US with US troups paid by the US, cheaper for the US ,more troups on the ground,less hostility as the insurgents cant point to "the great satan" and less of a political preasureon the Iraqui goverment to do as the US tells them.)

So if you what to keep the italian troups you will have to come upp with a better argument.

/C

[Omaha]

That statement could be used to jusify any invation ever. It is a clasical logical falacy (http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html#bifurcation) you claim that there are only 2 opotions. 1) the US(and others) stay an all is well or the US(and others) leave and everything goes to hell.

There are many other options available. (my favorite ever since 2003 has been replacement of the US with US troups paid by the US, cheaper for the US ,more troups on the ground,less hostility as the insurgents cant point to "the great satan" and less of a political preasureon the Iraqui goverment to do as the US tells them.)

So if you what to keep the italian troups you will have to come upp with a better argument.

/C


"That statement could be used to jusify any invation ever. "

What? How does staying AFTER an invasion (the very same you said you were committed to) to help the people that LIVE there justify an invasion in the future? Maybe I am a little slow, can you draw that line a little bolder?

I think your argument would hold a little more water if this wasn't Iraq. If it was an actual stable democracy, or at least one that didn't kill it's citizens everyday.



"Nobody said the American forces would pull out...
It's their war, of course they can stay and finish their job."

You are right, we will never until the job is done. And I was not talking about Germans, you never went in with us. I am talking about the countries that went in, they should stay. At least until the Iraqi government has real power, and military.

[Atlantic Friend]

Granted, even if you completely hate the war, and you think us Americans lied our asses off for blood and oil, you do understand that if everyone just picks up and leaves, the Iraqi people are screwed.

I just don't see how just because you were against the war, you could be against the Iraqi people. Do you not understand that we MUST finish what ever it is we started, right or wrong?

Please tell me none of you disagree

That pretty well sums it up to me. I entirtely supportted the Us action against Afghanistan, and I weas glad France sent troops there.

I was not, however, convinced by the rationale behind the Iraqi operation, but I would have been glad to see Frenchy troops joining in an operation whose only rationale would have been that Saddam Hussein is a murderous son of a b***h, and that since every Western power had helped him stay in power when he was useful to us, we could just as well clean up the mess we helped create.

Now, the situation as I see it is as follows : the murderous son of a b***h has been removed from power, which is a really neat thing. But in doing so, Iraq has been destabilized - something that was bound to happen, and that WOULD have happened would SH have died in his bed or have been killed by some fed-up Iraqis. This instability is potentially dangerous for the ME region, as it is for the western interests.

Leaving now is a great disservice to the Iraqi people. Sitting on the fence is a great disservice to the Iraqi people. That doies not mean thatb the only way to help is to send or maintain militray contingents, but I'm pretty sure the newborn Iraqi regime is due for some severe storsm, be it ethnically, religiously, politically, economically or militarily.

I don't share the hopes of Richard Perle and consorts who thought in 2003 that democracy would blossom in the Iraqi sands, but even a semi-authoritarian regime as in Egypt or Jordan would be a HUGE improvement on either Saddam Hussein or civil war, so the situation to me is really clear : whatever was the perception of each and every country about the US-led operation, everybody must now work toward reasonable objectives, for no country can now afford a failure of this "Iraqi experiment".

This calls for a reassessment of the position of every country regarding Iraq - be that France, Turkey or the United States.

[Macs.]

Nobody said the American forces would pull out...
It's their war, of course they can stay and finish their job.

Yeah, but the italians also were there at the very beginning.

So I guess they have to take a bit of responsibility, too.

[ElHombre]

how does any arguement calling for staying in iraq until stability returns deal with the fact that the people who call the shots, i.e.: the bush administration, have thus far proven themselves negligent in running such an operation as they propose? it's hardly fair to demand that others share in the stupidity of others especially when that involves combat.

if you're calling for staying in iraq, you should also outline what changes are needed along with their costs that are going to have to be borne by the people footing the bill. if you want other countries to help us out in iraq then you need to be upfront with the fact that the administration has botched the iraqi reconstruction. you then need to say how things are going to be different. you then have to convince them that the administration won;t be screwing things up again.