View Full Version : Equipment ques re: Jarhead
chomstein
11-08-2005, 04:32 PM
In the movie, it's clear that optics/laser pointers were missing on all equipment. In Gulf 2, everyone/most have optics. Question:
1) Were optics only used by special forces in Gulf 1?
2) Was the movie inaccurate?
3) Were optics too expensive, or in short supply, in Gulf 1?
ed316
11-08-2005, 04:37 PM
1) Yes,
2) No, for the most part I'm a former Marine
3) The laser pointers were not what it is today
The movie takes place during 1989-91. Like ed316 said, optics and lasers,etc were no where near to what they are today. Only troops you'd see with scopes would be scout/snipers and some SF/SO troops. But nothing like ACOGs or anything like that.
catalyst
11-08-2005, 05:40 PM
anyone know where I can download it?
LibertyUnites
11-08-2005, 05:42 PM
yes, www.fbi.gov
:)
USMC8541
11-08-2005, 06:05 PM
Answer to question #2
Yes in many ways the movie was accurate but there are a lot of things that were WAY off track.
Such as the selection and indoc into the Scout/Sniper platoon. It doesnt happen that way. People don't get told to show up to it. It is all volunteer. Also, they made no mention WHATSOEVER about sniper school. They made it APPEAR as if the Marine Corps trains its snipers ONLY at the platoon level then hands them a rifle and says "spotter---shooter". Yes, the STA platoons do a great deal of platoon level training for thos who have not yet been to sniper school but it never has and never will fundamentally take the place of formal training. Only under some very rare and specific circumstances have non school trained snipers been given the 8541 MOS. This movie nor the people portrayed in it were ever in that situation.
Also, the STA platoon is made up of the top people in the entire batallion. Not a bunch of **** birds. Granted every unit has a **** bird or two but the way the movie portrayed that STA platoon was just laughable.
Also, live fire infiltration courses (where the Marine was showed killed in a training accident) do not happen. The military is not allowed, and hasnt been in over 50 years to conduct close-in live fire over the heads of troops under normal conditions. The only acceptions are in specific places such as the 400 ranges out at 29 Palms.
Also, in the tower when they were about to take a shot at the officer. The spotter was giving the sniper the range to the target. The spotter does not do this. The movies always seem to make this mistake (The Jackal). The sniper is the one who gets the range to the target using the mil reticle in his scope. So unless the spotter has a laser range finder then the sniper has to do it. And in the movie...the spotter was using standard Steiner binos.
It was full of inaccuracies from start to finish.
...oh, almost forgot. I did over a decade as a Marine Scout/Sniper so....
Scout/Sniper school was never shown in the movie because Swofford never went to it.
Copy an pasted from another forum
WHile we had our one or two individuals that were... well... less than stellar performers, on the whole, we retained Marines that were some what more attuned to the needed fieldcrafts, and had a better attitude towards what was needed for our peculiar duties, than you would find in the line Companies.
Was Swafford a Scout/SNiper? By MOS? School Trained? If I remember correctly, we did not find his name as having ever attended the School at 1st Marine Division aboard Pendleton. But... that doesn't mean that he wasn't in the Billet. Prior to 92 or 93, Battalion Commanders were authorized to award the Scout/SNiper MOS (8541) to those Marines in his Battalion that he felt had served in the Billet, and was justified in having the MOS, regardless of attendance at one of the formal schools.
USMC8541
11-08-2005, 06:28 PM
Scout/Sniper school was never shown in the movie because Swofford never went to it.
Copy an pasted from another forum
I know that. But what I am saying if you read my post is that the movie made it APPEAR as if that is how scout/snipers are trained. All the way up to the point where they are sitting at the table and the Plt. Sgt. points at them and says "spotter, shooter".
You have to understand that most of the public has no idea about things like this. So the movie leads them to believe that this is what Marine Snipers are and how they are trained.
I went thru what could very easily be deemed as the equivalent to Hell Week just to make it INTO my platoon...much less STAY there and then finally EARN the right to attend Sniper School almost a year later. This movie made it seem like it was all just a simple test of a few common infantry tasks. It truely pissed me off.
b.scheller
11-08-2005, 06:35 PM
anyone know where I can download it?
It's illegal to download, copyright material. Strict fines and penalties, may be placed on both the person, who requests and downloads and the host.
As for a question, regarding the uniform in the movie "Jarhead". Why, did none of the Marines in the movie have neither their name tape or the tape with the branch of Armed Forces. Were these not implimented until later? I thought that the U.S began, to put both name tapes, and tapes of the branch of service, during Vietnam?
-b.scheller
USMC8451, sorry about that, didn't full read what you wrote. I just added that quote to give a bit more info on non Scout/Snipers getting the billet. In the movie, when they showed the "scout/sniper" training, did they actually say that was the school? And was that the only training they got, just learning how to shoot the M40?I haven't seen the movie yet, so I don't know.
b.scheller, Marines didn't wear name tags on their uniforms untill a few years ago(on their BDU/MARPAT). As for them not wearing the branch of service tape, I'm not sure if the Marines had that, since they had the EGA on the left shirt pocket. Also, since these guys are STA, they woulden't wear short of stuff on their field uniforms anyway.
USMC8541
11-08-2005, 07:31 PM
It's illegal to download, copyright material. Strict fines and penalties, may be placed on both the person, who requests and downloads and the host.
As for a question, regarding the uniform in the movie "Jarhead". Why, did none of the Marines in the movie have neither their name tape or the tape with the branch of Armed Forces. Were these not implimented until later? I thought that the U.S began, to put both name tapes, and tapes of the branch of service, during Vietnam?
-b.scheller
Marines didnt start wearing name tapes on their uniforms until about 1992.
California Joe
11-08-2005, 07:45 PM
USMC8541, thanks for the clarifications. Feel free to illuminate the masses about your former vocation any damned time you feel like it. It almost sounds like hollywood loves to throw in a bunch of roughneck sh*tbirds into Marine movies. Just for effect. Like the truly dreadfull "Heartbreak Ridge" featuring Recon Marines acting like complete douchebags. I think your point about the average movie viewer is well taken. Regardless of the age level here on this board I'd say the majority are interested in military history and the military itself. Thus the general interest and knowledge level of the subject matter is better than the average person that will see this movie and believe everything in it.
I have a friend that was a sniper in the 101st during the first Gulf War. He won a bronze star. He has terrible physical problems now from whatever syndrome they are calling it these days. But it's very real. I hope you suffer no such ill effects.
Sgt.Axeman1224
11-08-2005, 07:59 PM
[QUOTE]Also, live fire infiltration courses (where the Marine was showed killed in a training accident) do not happen. The military is not allowed, and hasnt been in over 50 years to conduct close-in live fire over the heads of troops under normal conditions. The only acceptions are in specific places such as the 400 ranges out at 29 Palms.[QUOTE/]
Are you sure that they dont crawl under barbed wire with live fire over their heads because my step-dad (former marine) told me that they fired live rounds over his head during training?
I give my regards to all the vets that came down with Gulf War syndrom and to those who never made it back.
USMC8541
11-08-2005, 08:02 PM
[QUOTE]Also, live fire infiltration courses (where the Marine was showed killed in a training accident) do not happen. The military is not allowed, and hasnt been in over 50 years to conduct close-in live fire over the heads of troops under normal conditions. The only acceptions are in specific places such as the 400 ranges out at 29 Palms.[QUOTE/]
Are you sure that they dont crawl under barbed wire with live fire over their heads because my step-dad (former marine) told me that they fired live rounds over his head during training?
There are still some ranges where live fire over the heads of troops is allowed but it is very restricted and the only place that the Marines do it is out at the 400 series of ranges in 29 Palms, California. And the range that it is done on is a batallion sized assault course. Not in the back corner of some training site on Camp Pendelton as depicted in the movie.
If what was shown in the movie had really happened, the Range Safety Officer who would have been Jamie Fox, would have been immediately relieved pending an investiation as to the death of the Marine. Yet there he was the next day as if nothing had happened. The BS just kept on flowing in that movie.
Sgt.Axeman1224
11-08-2005, 08:23 PM
ok thanks for clearing that up. And i did find that funny that their sniper training seemed just like any other class. I know that is hardly that case.
mattnwnc03
11-08-2005, 08:36 PM
yes we didnt have the nice "high tech" , the great fandangled add on the soldiers use today. we were armed with spears and sling shots.
Apogee
11-08-2005, 10:15 PM
Anyone notice that Marines had Kevlar cover bands? I'd not seen that until very recently.
tribal
11-09-2005, 12:15 AM
just saw Jarhead tonite, strange film, not sure what i think of it yet. Im just curious, a modern marine helmet, what type of caliber can it handle? Can it stop or slow down a sidearm 9mm round, but not a 5.56? A 6.+ round? what are the limits of its effectiveness?
USMC8541
11-09-2005, 02:12 AM
just saw Jarhead tonite, strange film, not sure what i think of it yet. Im just curious, a modern marine helmet, what type of caliber can it handle? Can it stop or slow down a sidearm 9mm round, but not a 5.56? A 6.+ round? what are the limits of its effectiveness?
Well if the scene in the movie sparked your curiosity. It can not withstand a 7.62 round from an M60 at 10 yards. Not to mention that the scene in the movie never really happened in the first place. Read my posts above for a better explanation.
Ratamacue
11-09-2005, 02:17 AM
just saw Jarhead tonite, strange film, not sure what i think of it yet. Im just curious, a modern marine helmet, what type of caliber can it handle? Can it stop or slow down a sidearm 9mm round, but not a 5.56? A 6.+ round? what are the limits of its effectiveness? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that both the PASGT helmet and Lightweight Helmet now used by the Marines are only rated to stop shrapnel, though are sometimes able to stop light pistol rounds (i.e. 9x19mm). Same goes for the PASGT and Interceptor vests without insert plates.
Sepper
11-09-2005, 03:12 AM
Yes in many ways the movie was accurate but there are a lot of things that were WAY off track.
Such as the selection and indoc into the Scout/Sniper platoon. It doesnt happen that way. People don't get told to show up to it. It is all volunteer.
I don't mean to argue with you, but in the movie Sieks didn't tell Swofford to show up, he more or less suggested it.
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