Canadians to Bush: Hope You Lose, Eh

[army cadet_ngcsu]

Canadians to Bush: Hope You Lose, Eh
By Jonathon Gatehouse
Feb 6, 2004, 10:24

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According to a new poll, only 15 per cent of us would vote for the President

February 9, 2004-Maybe it's that smug little smile. His penchant for fantastically expensive military photo-ops. Or the swaggering, belt-hitching walk that cries out for a pair of swinging saloon doors. And though, God knows, we have too many of our own syntactically challenged politicians to be casting stones, shouldn't the leader of the free world know that "misunderestimate" isn't a word?

Yes, we're cavilling, but clearly there is something about George W. Bush that gets under the skin of Canadians. After all, vehemently disagreeing with the policies of American presidents is almost a national pastime. There has to be another explanation for our extreme reaction, the desire afoot in the land to see him turfed from office. That and the unprintable sentiment about him and the horse he rode in on. Even before we know whom he will be running against this fall, Canadians have made their decision. Only 15 per cent, according to an exclusive new Maclean's poll, would definitely cast a ballot for Bush if they had the opportunity. And if Americans remain almost evenly divided -- some 50 per cent approve of his performance in the White House and he's running neck and neck with his likely Democratic challengers -- there is no such dithering on this side of the border. Just 12 per cent of us feel Canada is better off since he took office, and only a third of respondents will admit to liking the world's most powerful man, even just a little bit.

It's an antipathy that appears to extend far beyond our traditional coolness towards Republicans, says Michael Marzolini, chairman of Pollara Inc., the Toronto-based opinion research firm that conducted the national survey. With a political spectrum that skews to the left of America's -- legalized same-*** marriage and the promise of looser marijuana laws being the most recent, and in some quarters, celebrated examples -- we've generally perceived Democratic presidents as being more in tune with our values. But where Ronald Reagan and Bush the elder were at least grudgingly respected, Dubya is decidedly not.

Despite a spate of polls showing a broad desire for improved relations with the United States after the often rocky Chrétien years, there is a sense that this administration isn't one we want to do business with. "These numbers really show the difficulty for Paul Martin," says Marzolini, the long-time pollster for the federal Liberal party. "He has to get closer to the Americans, but he can't get too close to George Bush. It's a fine balance." The intense sympathy Canadians felt following the attacks of 9/11 -- something that manifested itself not just in acts of mourning and charity, but in a willingness to support whatever actions the U.S. deemed necessary -- has dissipated. In its place is a deep dislike of the bellicose new global reality, and a lingering distrust of Bush's motives.

It's evident even within sight of the frontier. Stopping to take a picture of icy Niagara Falls on a recent frigid day, Mike Mitreveski tried to explain why he's uneasy about Bush. "I get a sense that he's in it for himself first and then the country," said the Windsor, Ont., graduate student. "And I worry that he's doing all of this stuff in Iraq for the oil industry. He used to be part of it and has lots of high-ranking friends." David Kowalewski, an engineering consultant from Niagara Falls, Ont., says he initially supported Bush's foreign policy, but now has grave doubts. "I thought it was noble at first, but now they've gone security crazy." Life has changed for the worse in his community, said Kowalewski, citing long delays at the border, and the fallout for local businesses that depend on tourism.

A trio of physicians taking in the sights on a day off were no kinder to Bush. On sober reflection, all asked that their names not be used. "Please, someone, teach him how to ****ounce nuclear," said one, a Toronto pediatrician. Another, an American who has lived on this side of the border for the past 14 years, said she understands why Canadians dislike so many of Bush's stances, even though she is troubled by the tone of the debate. A doctor friend from the Netherlands provided a reminder that opinions of the President are often even harsher abroad. "In Amsterdam," she said, "we think he is kind of stupid."

On the humid night in August 2000 when George W. Bush officially became the Republican nominee for president, the thousands of delegates and reporters packed into a Philadelphia arena were given a peek at what party strategists planned to sell to the American people. The beautifully realized infomercial was mostly shots of Bush at his Crawford, Tex., ranch, tending stock, mending fences, driving a vintage pickup truck with his spaniel perched on his lap, all the while talking about his vision of a big country with small-town values.

It was a persona lifted straight from a Hollywood Western. The likeable, soft-talking cowpoke who knows the value of an honest day's work and isn't afraid to take on the guys in the black hats when the town's in trouble. Reagan successfully mined the same vein for eight years. And it's an image that continues to pay dividends for Bush, playing off his folksy, good-natured strengths, and positioning him as someone who might reasonably be excused for not reading newspapers or knowing the names of his foreign counterparts. Clearing brush on the back forty is a lot more man-of-the-people than weekending at the palatial family compound in Kennebunkport, Me.

But Canadians have never been that comfortable with the type of cowboys who take the law into their own hands. Our frontier heroes were the scarlet-clad North West Mounted Police, not lone gunslingers. In a pre-9/11 world, when Bush was vowing to be a domestic-policy president, it didn't seem to matter that much. But over the past 2 1/2 years, his muscular commitment to protecting and advancing U.S. interests abroad -- unilaterally if allies and international bodies such as the UN fail to sign on -- has unsettled many around the world. There is a burgeoning cottage industry of writers and analysts exploring the underpinnings and fallout of this new American "imperialism." In Canada, a country that has always fretted about being swallowed up, either territorially or culturally, by the behemoth to the south, the spectre of an expanding American Empire feeds a deep-seated paranoia. At least for some.

David Frum, the Canadian author and pundit who spent 13 months working as a speech writer for Bush -- he is credited with co-authorship of the infamous "axis of evil" line -- says he doesn't believe polls that suggest a yawning chasm between American and Canadian perceptions of the President. "My contention is that the differences are much less dramatic than they are usually made out to be," he says. And if Bush is held in less esteem north of the border, adds Frum, it is largely because of the distorted lens the public sees him through. "The Canadian media have generally taken a very belittling approach to him. By and large, they do not take the terror problem very seriously, and they communicate that to public opinion."

Canadians might understandably prefer presidents who are reluctant to flex their global political power, either economically or militarily, says Frum, but when it comes to things that really matter, we should have the good grace to at least not stand in the way. "There's no expectation in Washington that Canada and the U.S. should agree on every issue. But they do, as a friend, expect to be given the benefit of the doubt on issues that they regard as essential to their security."

It's a point of view that many Canadians find difficult to swallow, given the dubious claims of weapons of mass destruction and hostile intentions that fuelled America's foray into Iraq. (The Maclean's annual year-end poll found that 75 per cent of Canadians believe Ottawa was right to refuse to commit troops to Iraq, even if it annoyed our closest trading partner.) Yes, we're friends and neighbours, but with feelings running so high, there is a danger that our distaste for the leader will spill over to the people he represents.

Clifford Krauss, Canadian correspondent for the New York Times, recently encountered two young boys on the street outside his Toronto home, holding a sign that read Honk if you hate President Bush! (This is a school project.) "I was shocked because of the word hate," says Krauss. "You'd never see a sign like that about Saddam Hussein, or Slobodan Milosevic." It's a virulent strain of anti-Americanism that the Times reporter says he encounters more and more frequently. "I've experienced rude and prejudiced behaviour, just because I'm an American," says Krauss. "I've lived in countries in Latin America that have tricky relationships with the U.S., but I didn't expect that sort of thing here."

Truth is, we might well be the ones in need of a dose of perspective. With the Canadian political landscape now virtually emptied of leaders we feel passionately about -- either negatively or positively -- we might be guilty of transference. Our growing distaste for Bush is smug and more than a bit juvenile, argues Reginald Stuart, a Mount Saint Vincent University expert on U.S.-Canada relations, now in residence at Washington's Woodrow Wilson International Center. "When the Communists were in power, we dealt with Russian leaders that we disagreed vehemently with on some very fundamental issues," he notes.

Our worries that the Bush administration, viewed by the bulk of the Canadian public as overly religious and conservative, will somehow interfere with progressive social policies in this country (the Maclean's year-end poll identified same-*** marriage and proposals to relax marijuana laws as new "wellsprings of national pride") are overblown, says Stuart. In Canada, there is still no surer kiss of death for a politician than caving into American pressure.

For decades now, we have alternately railed against, and revelled in, the generalized American ignorance of Canada. At the same time, we have prided ourselves on being one of our neighbour's harshest critics. At the centre of our relationship is the conceit that so much of what we produce -- resources, goods, culture, people -- flows south, that America must really need us. Now, with the U.S. showing a willingness to stand alone and demand the obeisance due to the last remaining superpower, Canada, like the rest of the world, is caught up in an uncomfortable new reality. Bush's repeated "with us or against us" declarations have made it clear that there are new, tougher requirements for being America's ally. And as long as he remains well-positioned for another four years in the White House, we may have to do our share of puckering up. Canadians know that. We just don't have to like it.



http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_4987.shtml

[Vance]

Because as we all know, Canadians vote for our President, not us.










/sarcasm :roll:

[SeanAshi]

Canadians to Bush: Hope You Lose, Eh

****ing liberal pussies :D

[Uncle Sam]

Canadian. Need I say more ! :backhand:...eh

[wholagun]

I love it how you Yanks make fun of Canada and Europe, but the second Canadians or anyone else says anything about America, you guys bitch and moan.

[SeanAshi]

USA rallies in third period for world junior hockey title
By Alan Adams, special for USA TODAY
HELSINKI, Finland — Patrick O'Sullivan is an example of how to overcome adversity. Off the ice, his family situation is not great. There is a restraining order against his father after years of physical abuse. His unsettled home life scared a few teams off at the NHL draft last year. Projected to be a first-round selection, he nearly slipped to the third round and was drafted No. 56 by Minnesota.

The USA's Corey Potter, left, Drew Stafford, center, and Patrick O'Sullivan celebrate after netting the winning goal against Canada.
By Pekka Sakki, AFP

He has also had troubles on the ice. He was sent home for a couple of weeks last year by Mississauga of the Ontario Hockey League. He's back with the team and life is much calmer.

Throughout his ordeals, hockey has been his constant.

O'Sullivan scored two goals in the third period Monday to propel a three-goal rally that gave the USA its first gold medal at the world junior hockey championships with a 4-3 victory against Canada.

He pulled the USA within 3-2 at 4:39 of the third with a blistering wrist shot that froze goalie Marc-Andre Fleury and breezed over his left shoulder. O'Sullivan's second, at 14:48, wasn't a thing of beauty. He was racing a Canadian defenseman to a loose puck. Fleury tried to clear it but hit teammate Braydon Coburn and deflected into the net for the winner.

"It was an unfortunate bounce and to have it come down to that goal makes it even worse," Canadian forward Anthony Stewart said. "To have it come down to that feels pretty cheap."

The goal was easily the biggest tally of O'Sullivan's career, and the victory was especially sweet, considering what he has been through.

"I had some tough times, no doubt, but that stuff is in the past," said a grinning O'Sullivan, the gold medal around his neck. "I am just excited to be playing, and winning this tournament is a highlight of my life."

When the final buzzer sounded, the Americans mobbed goalie Al Montoya, who was named to the All-Star team along with tournament MVP Zach Parise.

Coach Mike Eaves shook every player's hand, thanking them for delivering USA Hockey's first gold medal in 28 years of the world junior tournament.

"Being able to hug each one of them and look them in the eye, what an amazing experience for them," he said. "This is so hard to win. Being a champion doesn't happen very often and more times than not you are on the losing team, so it is a special moment."

Canada's last world junior title win was in 1997, when it beat the Americans 2-0. The players took Monday's loss hard.

"I didn't miss it (the gold medal) by much last year, and to miss it again with a great team, it is tough," said Fleury, who was on loan from the Pittsburgh Penguins.

The win was made all the sweeter for the 10 U.S. players who lost 3-2 to Canada in the semifinals a year ago.

"It has been a long wait, long wait to get revenge, but it is sweet," Parise said. "It is sweet revenge, and it was a great game."

Pointing to his gold medal, he said: "This is going to get framed and go on my wall."

The Canadians seemed to have the game under control going into the third period. They had a 3-1 lead and had dominated the Americans in the middle period.

Forward Drew Stafford said there was no sense of panic in the U.S. room. Eaves said few words.

"He said our best is yet to come. He told us we needed to relax and get our forecheck going and play how we know how to play," Stafford said. "It is an unbelievable feeling right now ... all the work you put in. Some say it is a tournament, but it is really a marathon. You play your heart out every game."

Added Montoya: "This is a team that never gives up, and that is how we played all tournament. We came in after the second period, and we said it is only two goals and we came back.

"We never gave up, and that is the team we have."

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/_photos/2004-01-05-inside-juniors2.jpg
Great Game! America Got The Gold!

[Uncle Sam]

I love it how you Yanks make fun of Canada and Europe, but the second Canadians or anyone else says anything about America, you guys bitch and moan.

Oh yeah...We're a SUPER POWER...and you aint ! :slap:

:P

[SeanAshi]

I love it how you Yanks make fun of Canada and Europe, but the second Canadians or anyone else says anything about America, you guys bitch and moan.

Thats what makes us Americans! ;)

[BlackRain]

SeanAshi - Very funny subtle post. I didn't realize the Canadians had lost in hockey to the Americans since 1997.

Most American's think of Canada very rarely. So, it is of little regard what Canadian's think about our president.

I can't remember the last time Canada has come up in conversation at work or home?

Unless, of course, there is a storm coming down from that area.

[wholagun]

with all these comments you guys are actually suprized that the world doesn't want to help you guys in Iraq.

What short term memory down in the land of milk and honey? Olympics, now thats bragging rights for 4 years.

[panzerfaust]

Ask the people who ended up staying in homes in Newfoundland after being devirted from their landing sites in U.S.A. when no planes were allowed to fly into America after 9/11. Ask them what they think of Canadians. How quickly ya'all fergit! Dawgnamit!

[BlackRain]

with all these comments you guys are actually suprized that the world doesn't want to help you guys in Iraq.


Trust me when I say this. American's will remember the lack of support for a very long time.

Everyone has their hand out to the USA in the event of a crisis or war; however, when the USA asks a friend for support...her alleged allies turn their back.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Everyone has their hand out to the USA in the event of a crisis or war; however, when the USA asks a friend for support...her alleged allies turn their back.

Since when? Did we not go into Afghanistan after 9-11? Just because we are not sending soldiers to Iraq all of a sudden you think we are not doing enough. :roll:

[wholagun]

with all these comments you guys are actually suprized that the world doesn't want to help you guys in Iraq.


Trust me when I say this. American's will remember the lack of support for a very long time.

Everyone has their hand out to the USA in the event of a crisis or war; however, when the USA asks a friend for support...her alleged allies turn their back.

When US asked NATO for help in Afghanistan they answered. However you can't expect the same level of military commitment from European states as US, Europe just don't got hat big a military. Who's running Afghanistan Germany Canada and the rest of NATO.

[Uncle Sam]

The Robin Williams Plan

I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a plan for peace. So, here's one plan:

1. The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past &present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo, Noriega, Milosovich and the rest of those 'good ole boys.' We will never"interfere" again.

2. We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea and the Philippines. They don't want us there. We will station troops at our borders. No one sneaking through holes in the fence.

3. All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or where they are. France should welcome them.

4. All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit. No one from a terrorist nation would be allowed in. NO ONE! If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available to anyone.

5. No "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's back home baby.


6. The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing non-polluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while. The Sierra Club, etc. will have to deal with it.

7. Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go some place else. They can go somewhere else to sell their production.
(About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)

8. If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere." They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.

9. We will ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island some place. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10. All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer. Now, ain't that a winner of a plan?

"The Statue of Liberty will no longer say 'Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free.' She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'You want a piece of me?'"

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Someones desperately trying to start a flame war ^^

[wholagun]

So much for democracy eh ripcord.

The day I see US not relying on oil I will donnate 1000 US dollars to the Repbulican party. That 1000 bucks ain't goen anywhere anytime soon.





























Yeah kiss my ass I ain't given up any 1000 US dollars thats like 1300 Canadian.

[EvanL]

Like its any ****ing surprise we would vote for him. geez u guys act like a bunch of spoilt children. oohh yeh, thats cus you are. Havent you noticed how the only ones posting here are the ones with no credebillity. I think Vance who i am surprised with his response, said it best. Whats with all the Canada bashing? Bunch of spoilt little children.

[Uncle Sam]

Someones desperately trying to start a flame war ^^

I don't think so.

[Uncle Sam]

Like its any f*** surprise we would vote for him. geez u guys act like a bunch of spoilt children. oohh yeh, thats cus you are. Havent you noticed how the only ones posting here are the ones with no credebillity. I think Vance who i am surprised with his response, said it best. Whats with all the Canada bashing? Bunch of spoilt little children.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v56/deathdot/smilebutt.gif Chill out.

[memphiz]

Like its any f*** surprise we would vote for him. geez u guys act like a bunch of spoilt children. oohh yeh, thats cus you are. Havent you noticed how the only ones posting here are the ones with no credebillity. I think Vance who i am surprised with his response, said it best. Whats with all the Canada bashing? Bunch of spoilt little children.
i couldnt have said it better.

and SeanAshi the US may have Beat Canada in JUNIOR hockeywhich really doesnt matter,We kicked your ass in the Olympics in the mens and womens

[Uncle Sam]

Like its any f*** surprise we would vote for him. geez u guys act like a bunch of spoilt children. oohh yeh, thats cus you are. Havent you noticed how the only ones posting here are the ones with no credebillity. I think Vance who i am surprised with his response, said it best. Whats with all the Canada bashing? Bunch of spoilt little children.
i couldnt have said it better.

and SeanAshi the US may have Beat Canada in JUNIOR hockeywhich really doesnt matter,We kicked your ass in the Olympics in the mens and womens

Follower! :P

[Haiw]

Netherlands > all in ice skating and swimming :P

[SeanAshi]

SeanAshi - Very funny subtle post. I didn't realize the Canadians had lost in hockey to the Americans since 1997.

Its always great when the other team puts the puck in their own net.

and SeanAshi the US may have Beat Canada in JUNIOR hockeywhich really doesnt matter,We kicked your ass in the Olympics in the mens and womens
But that was 2 years ago, juniors wasn't that far back, but that was a good sweep for Canada, men and womens were both great games.

[Sixgun Symphony]

The problem with Canada is that they have too many liberals running the show up there.

[budanski]

Canadian Hockey is so... Gay. ;)

http://budanski.mypicgallery.com/Image.aspx?/canadianhockey/14531_large.jpg

[wholagun]

The problem with Canada is that they have too many liberals running the show up there.

well those liberals are the reason why many elderly and sick Americans come to Canada to buy medication. Sometimes its not about business and the buck but about peoples lives.

[usa320]

America To Canadians: Shut the **** Up, please.

[Yard Ape]

The problem with Canada is that they have too many liberals running the show up there.We do. If only our conservatives could get thier act together.

[NcDeuce]

Canadian Hockey is so... Gay. ;)

http://budanski.mypicgallery.com/Image.aspx?/canadianhockey/14531_large.jpg

rofl

I don't know why we bash Canada. I bash Liberals. If you're a Canadian Liberal, you can be in the burst radius. :D

[SeanAshi]

I love Canada I've been many times, beautiful country, nicest people in the world, hockey is great so is Lacorsse, I just don't like Candaian politics.

US may have Beat Canada in JUNIOR hockeywhich really doesnt matter I doubt the Canadian juniors team doesn't share that view.

[SeanAshi]

If that were Calgary and not Vancouver, they would be swinging and not kissing. ;)
http://budanski.mypicgallery.com/Image.aspx?/canadianhockey/14531_large.jpg

[Yard Ape]

I just don't like Candaian politics.
I think it is fair to say both our systems have room to improve.

This is not one of those routes to improvment: Panel to recommend proportional voting for House of Commons (http://globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20040202/ELECTION02)

I would not mind the option to elect my Senators (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2003/12/19/292230-cp.html), but I am not keen on provincial governments appointing federal senators for me.

I think our Governer General (and your president) should be elected through a system where everyone gets a vote & every vote is equal.

[Sixgun Symphony]

I don't know why we bash Canada. I bash Liberals. If you're a Canadian Liberal, you can be in the burst radius. :D

A agree,

I think the problem is with people like the leftist author of that article posted on top who has the presumption to speak for all Canadians.

[Jack Mehoff]

with all these comments you guys are actually suprized that the world doesn't want to help you guys in Iraq.


Trust me when I say this. American's will remember the lack of support for a very long time.

Everyone has their hand out to the USA in the event of a crisis or war; however, when the USA asks a friend for support...her alleged allies turn their back.

When US asked NATO for help in Afghanistan they answered. However you can't expect the same level of military commitment from European states as US, Europe just don't got hat big a military. Who's running Afghanistan Germany Canada and the rest of NATO.
Honestly, did you just pull that out your brain we call an ass?

Only 12,000 troops from U.S. 10th Mtn and Special Forces hunting for the terrorists. Next time when you spout off, make sure you do some research first.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2513547.stm


There are already more than 1,000 German soldiers in Kabul, together with hundreds of Dutch troops, with whom they will share command of the 5,000-strong international force, which now comprises soldiers from 22 nations.


http://in.news.yahoo.com/040107/137/2arwg.html

There are 12,000 U.S.-led troops in Afghanistan hunting Islamic militants from the Taliban and al Qaeda

[NcDeuce]

with all these comments you guys are actually suprized that the world doesn't want to help you guys in Iraq.


Trust me when I say this. American's will remember the lack of support for a very long time.

Everyone has their hand out to the USA in the event of a crisis or war; however, when the USA asks a friend for support...her alleged allies turn their back.

When US asked NATO for help in Afghanistan they answered. However you can't expect the same level of military commitment from European states as US, Europe just don't got hat big a military. Who's running Afghanistan Germany Canada and the rest of NATO.

What a schmuck

[Yard Ape]

When US asked NATO for help in Afghanistan they answered. ... Who's running Afghanistan Germany Canada and the rest of NATO.Don't confuse ISAF as the only show in Afghanistan. A US led coalition is still hunting terrorists in that country. ISAF is only there to spank the terrorists that try to operate in the capitol.

It needs to get bigger & establish a security presence through the entire country, or all efforts in that country will come undone.

[pAt]

see IF Canada had money we would help out more in A-stan but we dont so we are limited to do barly anything.

[SeanAshi]

Trust me when I say this. American's will remember the lack of support for a very long time.

Perhaps we should just worry about the things within our border? And tell the world to "****off! were not getting involved" It seems at times that The Uniteds States and Americans are unappreciated.

see IF Canada had money we would help out more in A-stan but we dont so we are limited to do barly anything.
Give thanks to Chretien for that.

[Yard Ape]

see IF Canada had money we would help out more in A-stan but we dont so we are limited to do barly anything.
Give thanks to Chretien for that.
He is only the most recent of many who must share the blame. Lets hope Martin comes through on his musings of increasing the size of our Army.

[Seiyuuki]

with all these comments you guys are actually suprized that the world doesn't want to help you guys in Iraq.

:cantbeli:

[wholagun]

with all these comments you guys are actually suprized that the world doesn't want to help you guys in Iraq.

:cantbeli:

You must be there brains around here eh. I can see you sure do have a vast vocaburlary.

[Seiyuuki]

with all these comments you guys are actually suprized that the world doesn't want to help you guys in Iraq.

:cantbeli:

You must be there brains around here eh. I can see you sure do have a vast vocaburlary.

You must be the eyes around here because all I see in Iraq are U.S. troops.

[Ratamacue]

with all these comments you guys are actually suprized that the world doesn't want to help you guys in Iraq.

:cantbeli:

You must be there brains around here eh. I can see you sure do have a vast vocaburlary.

You must be the eyes around here because all I see in Iraq are U.S. troops.

You must be wrong then, because there are MANY countries with troops in Iraq.

[wholagun]

Honestly, did you just pull that out your brain we call an ass?

Only 12,000 troops from U.S. 10th Mtn and Special Forces hunting for the terrorists. Next time when you spout off, make sure you do some research first.

No, in fact the same source you happened to use for your first article.
Since your Mr up to date with the research you will notice that your first article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2513547.stm) is from Tuesday, 26 November, 2002, 11:03 GMT. Thats well over a year ago, times have changed.

Try this source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3465017.stm
Goes to show that yes US is in Afghanistan, but isn't the only one.

[Jack Mehoff]

Honestly, did you just pull that out your brain we call an ass?

Only 12,000 troops from U.S. 10th Mtn and Special Forces hunting for the terrorists. Next time when you spout off, make sure you do some research first.

No, in fact the same source you happened to use for your first article.
Since your Mr up to date with the research you will notice that your first article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2513547.stm) is from Tuesday, 26 November, 2002, 11:03 GMT. Thats well over a year ago, times have changed.

Try this source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3465017.stm
Goes to show that yes US is in Afghanistan, but isn't the only one.

Reading comprehension perhaps?

wholagun wrote:

Who's running Afghanistan Germany Canada and the rest of NATO.


From YOUR source bbcnews

Nearly 6,000 Nato troops are stationed in the capital Kabul, while other Afghan cities are policed locally.



The outgoing deputy commander of Nato forces in Afghanistan, Canadian Major-General Andrew Leslie, said in Kabul that Isaf should expand its force to up to 12,000 troops in order to maintain security


Mr de Hoop Scheffer has previously suggested closer ties between Isaf and the 12,000-strong US-led combat force deployed elsewhere in the country.

[wholagun]

I'll concede that yes NATO is not running Iraq, but it is there. Hopefully the 12 000 will go to Iraq maybe even 14 000.

Reading comprehension - yeah I am off the ball today, exams got me whiped read today alone 200 pages of text, and Im not done there, long night tonight. Had abit too much coffee very edgy today.

[Sixgun Symphony]

wholagun,

Are you a Canadian of Polish ancestry?

[Yard Ape]

12,000-strong US-led combat force
How much of this force is US forces and how much is allied forces?

[memphiz]

all the fighting between Canadians and Americans isnt good. the person who really screwed upour military was Trudeau and hes french. so instead of us all fighting over Canada and the US we should join forces and bash the french, what do you guys say :P

[wholagun]

wholagun,

Are you a Canadian of Polish ancestry?

Ja jestem Polakem ale mieszkam w Kanadge (spelling is off, reading and writing Polish is a bitch, I speak it fine just can't write)

Born in Poland moved to Canada when I was 6 been living in Canada ever since. Your new to this fourm so you don't know yet, but half this damn forum is actually Polish no joke, go to off topic humar and look up nationalities.

[wholagun]

12,000-strong US-led combat force
How much of this force is US forces and how much is allied forces?

if im not mistaken US has 12 000 and nato 6 000 which may go up to 12 000 or even 14 000.

[Yard Ape]

if im not mistaken US has 12 000 and nato 6 000 which may go up to 12 000 or even 14 000.Then why call it a "US led force" and not a "US force"? I though UK & Australia still had troops in the US led force.

[Yard Ape]

instead of us all fighting over Canada and the US we should join forces and bash the french, what do you guys say :PWould that really be progress?

[Jack Mehoff]

if im not mistaken US has 12 000 and nato 6 000 which may go up to 12 000 or even 14 000.Then why call it a "US led force" and not a "US force"? I though UK & Australia still had troops in the US led force.

I believe U.S. troops number is 10,000. The rest are probably local Afghan, Brits and others


The US military has a 12,000-strong force in Afghanistan hunting Taliban and al-Qaida forces after a US-led campaign ousted the ruling Taliban in 2001

http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,1135076,00.html

[wholagun]

if im not mistaken
Guess I was mistaken. [EDIT] No I guess I was right look above Jack's post.

Brain overworked today


Some advice for those studying and doing essaies for univeristy:
Procrastination is like masturbation in the end your only fu*king yourself.

[Sixgun Symphony]

wholagun,

Are you a Canadian of Polish ancestry?

Ja jestem Polakem ale mieszkam w Kanadge (spelling is off, reading and writing Polish is a bitch, I speak it fine just can't write)

Born in Poland moved to Canada when I was 6 been living in Canada ever since.

Ah ok,

I was curious. We have a polish friend who visits regularly at http://glocktalk.com/ He put up some interesting posts on Polish military history. The Polish winged cavalry was pretty kewl. :)

[SeanAshi]

He is only the most recent of many who must share the blame. Lets hope Martin comes through on his musings of increasing the size of our Army
Canadian Alliance needs to run things woot

[wholagun]

wholagun,

Are you a Canadian of Polish ancestry?

Ja jestem Polakem ale mieszkam w Kanadge (spelling is off, reading and writing Polish is a bitch, I speak it fine just can't write)

Born in Poland moved to Canada when I was 6 been living in Canada ever since.

Ah ok,

I was curious. We have a polish friend who visits regularly at http://glocktalk.com/ He put up some interesting posts on Polish military history. The Polish winged cavalry was pretty kewl. :)

Ah tak (yes) the Hussaria, they were really good ahead of their time and very adapted to the many threats at the time. During reading week which starts for me when I go home on thursday I will posting something about them in the history seciton of this forum.

[memphiz]

instead of us all fighting over Canada and the US we should join forces and bash the french, what do you guys say :PWould that really be progress?
yeh sure why not

[Yard Ape]

Canadian Alliance needs to run things wootThey've merged with the Conservatives. Hopefully this will let the Right bring thier act together. Hope General Lewis Mckenzie runs for them again. I want to see him in office.

[Shake n Bake]

Canadians have become soft people who try to hard to emulate europe.

[Yard Ape]

Canadians have become soft people who try to hard to emulate europe.
Intriguing. Can you prove this?

[Sixgun Symphony]

It is really sad that so many Americans will bash all Canadians for the anti-American rhetoric of the liberals in Canada.

Hell, we got the same kind of liberals here in the USA too.

[wholagun]

It is really sad that so many Americans will bash all Canadians for the anti-American rhetoric of the liberals in Canada.

Hell, we got the same kind of liberals here in the USA too.

The unique thing about the capital [L] Liberal party is that its politicians/members are small [l] liberals/moderates and even some conservatives. Liberal party of Canada and the old Progressive Conservative (whos name to me is an oxy moron, but thats not hte point) the point is that both parties had alot in common in thei reconomic policy. Left in Canada is the NDP, the Liberals are more moderates (such as myself) but they do have members that are conservative, the new conservative party well, it remains to been seen what they do. Canadian alliacne was too conservative for me.

liberalism in Canada is in the culture which spill over into politics etc, media very liberal in Canada.

[Sixgun Symphony]

liberalism in Canada is in the culture which spill over into politics etc, media very liberal in Canada.

I think it is mostly true for the urban areas.


Media is liberal here too, glad to have Fox news for a counterbalance.

[Ichhabe]

First of all, relax you Americans.
Under normal conditions, Canadians can't vote in the USA...




with all these comments you guys are actually suprized that the world doesn't want to help you guys in Iraq.


Trust me when I say this. American's will remember the lack of support for a very long time.

Everyone has their hand out to the USA in the event of a crisis or war; however, when the USA asks a friend for support...her alleged allies turn their back.

Man! You really sounds like a a woman scorned (sp?).
Like a bitchy woman you will remember forever and beyond forever. Ai Ai Ai.

For your information, my country was left alone in our darkest hour of history, when the Brits found out that it had started to burn somewhere else on the continent, and suddenly left.
But my forfathers did not lay down and started to moan and bitch about it .

And we don't do that today either.
But wet blankets like you, gonna write it down in your family bible, tatoo the creed on your firstborns and remember forever.

I pitty you.

[stuntman]

Look canada sucks, ur hockey is fake, your cadpat was stolen from us, and your m16 clone sucks to! Just understand that we baby sit you guys and you need to stop teaching your children that some how canada burnt our white house! That is false and so is ur currency! ur liberal healthcare sucks to and the water falls are ours to! Understand and except that!
Woodland!

[Yard Ape]

Look canada sucks, ur hockey is fake, your cadpat was stolen from us, and your m16 clone sucks to! Just understand that we baby sit you guys and you need to stop teaching your children that some how canada burnt our white house! That is false and so is ur currency! ur liberal healthcare sucks to and the water falls are ours to! Understand and except that!
Woodland!Thank you for introducing a new level of intellectual thought to this topic. Misinformation is also good.

CADPAT was first: http://www.hyperstealth.com/CADPAT-MARPAT.htm

Technically, Canada did not exist when the White House was burned down. The Brits get credit for that: http://www.vintagedesigns.com/fam/wh/1880/

[citizen-k]

The Robin Williams Plan

I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a plan for peace. So, here's one plan:

1. The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past &present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo, Noriega, Milosovich and the rest of those 'good ole boys.' We will never"interfere" again.

2. We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea and the Philippines. They don't want us there. We will station troops at our borders. No one sneaking through holes in the fence.

3. All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or where they are. France should welcome them.

4. All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit. No one from a terrorist nation would be allowed in. NO ONE! If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available to anyone.

5. No "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's back home baby.


6. The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing non-polluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while. The Sierra Club, etc. will have to deal with it.

7. Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go some place else. They can go somewhere else to sell their production.
(About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)

8. If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere." They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.

9. We will ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island some place. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10. All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer. Now, ain't that a winner of a plan?

"The Statue of Liberty will no longer say 'Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free.' She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'You want a piece of me?'"

"Just do it"

[wholagun]

Look canada sucks, ur hockey is fake, your cadpat was stolen from us, and your m16 clone sucks to! Just understand that we baby sit you guys and you need to stop teaching your children that some how canada burnt our white house! That is false and so is ur currency! ur liberal healthcare sucks to and the water falls are ours to! Understand and except that!
Woodland!

Oh that was harsh.
Lots of flame and little intelligence in that last post. Ah, noticed you put in all the (so called) negative aspects of Canada, good to know, considering we are neighbours and have the biggest bilater trade and the most undefended border. Dude some advice cold shower, you clearly have nothing intelligent to add to this discussion so its a good idea to take a cold shower and cool off.

[Sixgun Symphony]

That is what I am talking about. Too many of my fellow citizens will bash all Canadians when it is only some that are trash talking the US.

Embarrasing really.

[Yard Ape]

Some of your trash us, some of ours trash you . . . it's sad. But, when it impedes progress or when people start to believe it, then it is concerning. It is very often concerning.

[SFontaine]

Canada is like this little kid that runs around trying to feel all big an important around the big cool kid, America.

I swear to god. Everywhere I turn I see Canadians going on about how much better they are than "those Americans" and such. Seems the national pasttime here is "differentiate yourself from the US".

Canadians get pissed when an American from Florida doesn't know the capital of New Brunswick.. Why the hell should he? He's from FLORIDA in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. I can bet most Canadian's don't know the capital of Florida.

Same deal when Canadian's say "Most American's don't know our Prime Minister but we all know the US President", why the hell should American's know the Canadian PM? Does he have any impact on their lives? No. The reason all Canadians know the US President is because he is the most powerful and influential man in the world. Of course people will know him

Here's a good guide on HOW TO BE CANADIAN for some of you who need a little enlightenment. Good read and chillingly accurate of how most people are.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=3212

[hedgehog]

What was that? Americans don't care and shouldn't care about pathetic Canada? If you can't get the people that have an identical way of life, language, food, TV on your side and believe in your cause then how in hell is the states ever going to win a war on international terrorism?

[BlackRain]

That is what I am talking about. Too many of my fellow citizens will bash all Canadians when it is only some that are trash talking the US.

Embarrasing really.

The cycle has completed. People have forgotten what this thread was originally about. Canada despises our president, they refused the call to support us when we went to Iraq, and there is a general anti-American attitude in Canada. It is not some Canadians that feel this way but a plurality.

To rehash. A forum member posted a Canadian article stating that:


The Maclean's annual year-end poll found that 75 per cent of Canadians believe Ottawa was right to refuse to commit troops to Iraq, even if it annoyed our closest trading partner.


Clifford Krauss, Canadian correspondent for the New York Times, recently encountered two young boys on the street outside his Toronto home, holding a sign that read Honk if you hate President Bush! (This is a school project.) "I was shocked because of the word hate," says Krauss. "You'd never see a sign like that about Saddam Hussein, or Slobodan Milosevic." It's a virulent strain of anti-Americanism that the Times reporter says he encounters more and more frequently. "I've experienced rude and prejudiced behaviour, just because I'm an American," says Krauss. "I've lived in countries in Latin America that have tricky relationships with the U.S., but I didn't expect that sort of thing here."

Insightful Poll and Article: Are US citizen's bastards? Half of Canadian's polled said yes!: http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2003/America-Bastards-Parrish4mar03.htm


The tide of anti-American sentiment in Canada is running higher than it has since Vietnam.

"Do you have any advice for me?" a mild-mannered man asked me last week. "Whenever I try to stick up for the Americans at work, everyone shouts me down."

Poll of Canadian's anti-American attitudes: http://www.acs-aec.ca/Polls/Poll24.pdf

Anti-Americanism in Canada Post 9-11 article: http://www.robertfulford.com/AntiAmericanism2.html

Canadians are entitled to do what they want and believe what they want but they should not bitch when we decide to shut border crossings either.

[Salty Dog]

you're all ****ing stupid. especially you woodland. just stop arguing about who is better, and shut up. if you are canadian and you don't like americans, or if your american and you don't like canadians, then just shut the **** up. it's a ****ing dumb thing to be arguing about.

[BOB1]

I am not sure why people post these things unless its to reopen old wounds. Let the past be the past and stop trying to dig up anti Canadian and Anti American sentiments.

[Saint]

What I don't understand is why someone would post that article in the first place. We all see what happends because of it...its f****** ridiculous. Second, who cares what Americans think of Canadians. Personally, I would rather have America know jack-**** about us. Canada is a kick-ass country, great people, great environment, and so forth. Who cares what US-Canadians think about each other!?
I live in a border city near Detroit and see Americans everyday, and you know what, no one here cares....so lets drop this stupid f****** argument and grow up.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

What I don't understand is why someone would post that article in the first place. We all see what happends because of it...its f****** ridiculous. Second, who cares what Americans think of Canadians. Personally, I would rather have America know jack-**** about us. Canada is a kick-ass country, great people, great environment, and so forth. Who cares what US-Canadians think about each other!?
I live in a border city near Detroit and see Americans everyday, and you know what, no one here cares....so lets drop this stupid f****** argument and grow up.

I couldnt have said it better myself.


http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=3212

Thats funny rofl

Personally I couldnt care who's the president of the US, niether do the rest of us.

[Sixgun Symphony]

Canadians are entitled to do what they want and believe what they want but they should not bitch when we decide to shut border crossings either.

Canada has a large and growing Islamic community because of the liberal immigration laws there. The die-versity has made Canada into a place from where Al Qaida and other Islamic terrorist groups launched attacks on the USA.

We captured an Al Qaida terrorist operative coming into Washington State from Vancouver B.C.

If they don't tighten up on their immigration laws, then we will have to close the border.

[Falco]

The cultural diversity is part of the canadian heritage. We still need to be a little tougher certain aspects of immigration.

[Yard Ape]

We’re starting to sound xenophobic here.

Would you deny that the US also has a large and growing Islamic community?

Do you blame all members of the Islamic community for terrorism?

[Sixgun Symphony]

The cultural diversity is part of the canadian heritage. We still need to be a little tougher certain aspects of immigration.

Canada is a Western nation, meaning that its heritage is mostly from Europe. This "cultural diversity" mantra is a modern fashion.

[Saint]

Canada has a large and growing Islamic community because of the liberal immigration laws there. The die-versity has made Canada into a place from where Al Qaida and other Islamic terrorist groups launched attacks on the USA.

We captured an Al Qaida terrorist operative coming into Washington State from Vancouver B.C.

If they don't tighten up on their immigration laws, then we will have to close the border.

I fully understand what you are saying here. Yes. Canada has terrorist cells operating and possibly planning attacks on the US. However, is it fair to "blame" Canada for our lack of immigration security? Not to sound like a bastard, but didn't the 911 highjackers have US Visas and US pilot licenses? Once again, im not trying to be a prick and if I am wrong, by all means correct me...

[Sixgun Symphony]

We’re starting to sound xenophobic here.

Would you deny that the US also has a large and growing Islamic community?

Do you blame all members of the Islamic community for terrorism?


The "War on Terror" is really a clash of civilizations. Terrorism is merely a tactic, a strategy. This fighting you see today are the latest rounds in a thousand year old war between Islam and Western Civilization.

[[AFSOC]]

Wow....

Seriously you people care way toooo much. You think Canada is the only country who hopes Bush loses?

**** loads of Americans dont want Bush to win again either why do you care.

Cause a lot of ya'll are fags thats why.

[Sixgun Symphony]

[quote]
However, is it fair to "blame" Canada for our lack of immigration security? Not to sound like a bastard, but didn't the 911 highjackers have US Visas and US pilot licenses? Once again, im not trying to be a prick and if I am wrong, by all means correct me...

We are tightening up some. I don't think it is enough, but it is a start.

Canada has been a launching point for Al Qaida to attack the USA. It will continue to be a base for Al Qaida and other Islamic terrorists while Canada remains a hospitable environment for them.

[SeanAshi]

Do you blame all members of the Islamic community for terrorism?
9 out of 10 terrorist attacks seem to be muslim, not all muslims are terrorist but damnit they are ruining it for the rest of them,

Canada has been a launching point for Al Qaida
Canada did have the bad habbit of allowing arabs into their country without tracking them, the border we share with Canada is the longest open border in the world, I'm sure the terrorist knows this as well.

[Yard Ape]

However, is it fair to "blame" Canada for our lack of immigration security? ...Why would it not be fair to blame Canada for deficiencies in Canadian domestic security? At the same time, we should not pretend the Canada is "the weak link" in the USA's armour. Nor should we pretend that bad things only cross that border in one direction.

[Yard Ape]

Canada has been a launching point for Al Qaida to attack the USA. What has been launched from Canada? You may be buying into to much politically expedient propaganda comming from various elected US officials who are too weak to admitt that there is work to be done at home.

. . . I won't deny that Canada has a lot of work to do before we can say we are holding up our end, but I think you may have an overly high opinion of what the US has done internally.

[obd]

Hey wholagun, you know anyone not relying on oil these days outside of third world country's with no infrastructure...oh yeah and of course Canada which uses no oil, only reindeer fat and methane for its energy

[obd]

Oh yeah and I agree with you that the Canadian media is liberal. In fact they are so liberal that when the famed Candian snipers returned to Canada from A-stan and a heroes welcome in the United States for being credited with saving the lives of many US troops and having the longest confirmed kill recorded, the Canadian press called them "cold blooded murderers" and such. They even argued that the snipers were being crude and acting with dishonor for being proud of such a "macabre and gruesome accomplishment" (saving the lives of US troops by gunning down terrorists at extreme range). What next? Are the Candaian media gong to argue for the banning of .50 cal sniper weapons because they dont conform to Canada's ideas of fairness in war? It always makes me angry when I hear nations that are essentially security parasites on thier neighbors complaining of such things..........

[Sixgun Symphony]

Oh yeah and I agree with you that the Canadian media is liberal. In fact they are so liberal that when the famed Candian snipers returned to Canada from A-stan and a heroes welcome in the United States for being credited with saving the lives of many US troops and having the longest confirmed kill recorded, the Canadian press called them "cold blooded murderers" and such. They even argued that the snipers were being crude and acting with dishonor for being proud of such a "macabre and gruesome accomplishment" (saving the lives of US troops by gunning down terrorists at extreme range). What next? Are the Candaian media gong to argue for the banning of .50 cal sniper weapons because they dont conform to Canada's ideas of fairness in war? It always makes me angry when I hear nations that are essentially security parasites on thier neighbors complaining of such things..........



This is what I mean. There are plenty of good Canadians. But the freaky Liberals have the reigns of power up there

[Yard Ape]

In fact they are so liberal that when the famed Candian snipers returned to Canada from A-stan ... the Canadian press called them "cold blooded murderers" and such. They even argued that the snipers were being crude and acting with dishonor for being proud of such a "macabre and gruesome accomplishment" I saw nothing but praise for our soldiers in Canadian media. This includes when they were in Afghanistan & when they came home.

Going back to the origin of this thread . . . my preferences died when John McCain failed to beat Bush for the Republican nomination in 2000. In hind sight, Bush may very well have been the right man for these last few years.

As a Canadian, why should I have an opinion of who would be best for the US president? Because the decisions he makes will affect me. Why should my opinion matter to the average US voter? I don't think it should.

[flickme]

Dumb canadians. No offense. lol.