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fantassin
02-08-2004, 12:44 PM
At least some people are taking their infos on other channels than CNN and Fox news.


Current Operations of the French and German Armies
September 2003-Army Magazine


By Col. Peter Herrly, U.S. Army retired


That America undertook Operation Iraqi Freedom against the advice and without the participation of some of its oldest allies, including France and Germany, aroused considerable controversy and ill will during the run-up to and conduct of the war.

America's ties to France and Germany were severely strained by the political divergence over the war in Iraq, to the extent that many voices on the American political scene began questioning the utility of long-standing alliances like NATO. It is nevertheless remarkable that even when tempers were most heated, U.S., French and German soldiers continued to serve together in other coalitions as well as formal alliance efforts.

In fact, if we think of the continuing global war on terror as composed of various "fronts" where substantial active military forces are operating, it is remarkable that despite their absence in Iraq, French and Germany forces are present and operating with U.S. forces in multiple theaters. For the French Army, these include Afghanistan, East Africa, West Africa and the Balkans. German forces have broken with a long-standing reluctance to deploy outside of Germany and have been or are present in such areas as Somalia, the Balkans and Afghanistan.

These operations illustrate the complexity of the modern world. It is true that when an American asks -- "Are you with me or against me?" -- a Frenchman is ****e to answer, "On what issue?"

That complexity has been hard for many Americans to swallow as the country and Army geared up for a tough and difficult struggle in Iraq.

The dispute among allies over the Iraq conflict masked an often overlooked reality: The United States, despite its military might, will have a tough time taming an unruly world without its admittedly less muscular but still most militarily capable allies.

From the Balkans to Afghanistan and the Persian Gulf, the U.S. military maintains strong forces (at a considerable strain in operational tempo and soldier and family cohesion). Even so, tackling alone the laborious tasks associated with building enduring peace in difficult theaters does not present the optimum solution for the U.S. Armed Forces.

The complex realities of global operations are portrayed here, showing the French and German Armies in recent action in various hot spots around the world -- Afghanistan, the Balkans, the Ivory Coast and elsewhere. Often these forces are involved in training and operating directly with the U.S. Army or in similar missions. Like the U.S. Army, the French and German Armies have lost soldiers in the fight against the forces of global terrorism and instability.



The French Army
There are only a few armies in the world today that retain robust full spectrum capabilities. Beyond the U.S. and British Armies, the French Army is one of the few land forces that not only maintains a substantial worldwide presence and a capability to fight at high intensity, but also is increasingly optimized for power projection.

The French Army has recently completed the ambitious restructuring program it launched in 1995, despite the handicaps of budget constraints imposed by five years of a center-left government from 1997 to 2002. These funding constraints hit especially hard at equipment maintenance and modernization accounts, in part because the Army was so heavily engaged in a series of deployments and overseas commitments. Nevertheless, despite the strains of this vigorous operational tempo, the French Army has completed the transition to an entirely new force structure, converting from a division to a brigade-centered force, and making the transition to an all-volunteer force.

During the same period, adding to its long-standing presence in Africa and the Pacific, the French Army began in 1992 a substantial long-term and continuing effort in the Balkans, where nearly 100 French soldiers have perished in the intervening decade.

In addition, after September 11, 2001, the French Army was asked to mount a major effort in Afghanistan. There, French soldiers operate in close conjunction with their American counterparts, notably in training the Afghan Army, participating in the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF), and recently deploying special operations forces in a combat role.

To this has been added deployments to the Ivory Coast, where after helping evacuate American citizens, the French force has been engaged in a risky but so far successful effort to keep the lid on an explosive situation. Despite having fewer soldiers than the situation would seem to demand, French soldiers have employed their sense of the terrain and the overall environment to prevent the emergence of still another failed state, of still another spawning ground for instability and a potential safe haven for terrorists.

Recently, the French Army has also sent units to the Democratic Republic of the Congo for similar purposes.
At the same time, the French Army continues to develop its "Air-Land Operational Space" concept, a parallel to the U.S. Army's Future Combat System. This program's scope and bold vision, like the British Army's FRES (Future Rapid Effects System) effort, show that high technology in the landpower arena is not a one-way street from the United States to Europe.

Even in the domain of future high-intensity combat, the French Army remains centered around the soldier on the ground to maintain "Contact With Reality" as the current French Army doctrine states. Despite the deep tensions of the past year over Iraq, the French Army is more often than not still ranged solidly on the ground beside the Army of its oldest ally, the United States.



The German Army
In the past 12 years, the German Army has dramatically evolved from a Cold War border defense army strictly within the NATO framework to one that is operating worldwide. The German Army's new missions have led German soldiers to Cambodia, Somalia, Georgia, Kuwait, Afghanistan and Djibouti, and above all to the Balkans.

As recently as 1994 and 1995, the missions in Somalia and Bosnia-Herzegovina were watched very closely by Germans -- but now peacekeeping missions characterize the daily operations of the German Army, which bears the brunt of this commitment, adapting its force structure and equipment toward the new requirements. This reorientation continues; the objective is to obtain a balanced mix of light, medium and heavy army forces fitting into a prioritized deployability pattern. Today, some 6,000 German Army soldiers are employed abroad in different operations: with the special forces and in the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan; in SFOR in Bosnia-Herzegovina; in KFOR in Kosovo; with Task Force Fox in Macedonia; and in the German NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical) defense contingent in Kuwait.

Humanitarian and disaster relief missions. Humanitarian and disaster relief missions -- inside and outside Germany -- have a long tradition in the German Army. In Somalia, for example, the German Army deployed what was at the time the largest component contingent of the UNOSOM II (United Nations Operations in Somalia II) forces.

With operations in the Balkans, soldiers of the German Army became an integral part of international peace missions and crisis response operations and included work by supply convoys, engineers, army aviation and the medical corps.

The balance sheet for German Army contingents is impressive: 17,984 outpatient treatments; 2,277 inpatient treatments of people from 58 nations; 492 convoys/transport missions encompassing 5,615,000 kilometers; 12,100 cubic meters of fuel transported; 34,550 tons of cargo; 1,056 helicopter missions with 5,010 flying hours; 45 engineer working areas; nine overhauled/renewed bridges; 35 kilometers of road construction and 21 kilometers of road maintenance; and 38,200 meters of mine clearing (carried out by the mine-clearing vehicle Keiler).

Kosovo. The German KFOR contingent has approximately 3,680 soldiers. The commander of the German contingent is also the commander of the Multinational Brigade South (MNB [S]). In addition to the German troops, this brigade is composed of soldiers from Turkey, Austria, Switzerland, Georgia, Azerbaidzhan and Bulgaria. Focal points for operations in the MNB (S) are the enhanced surveillance of the borders with Albania and Macedonia, the assurance of the return of refugees, and support rendered to Task Force Fox in Macedonia.

Macedonia. Over 600 German soldiers participated in NATO Operation Essential Harvest.

Djibouti, Kuwait and Afghanistan. The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, triggered a comprehensive international struggle marked by extensive solidarity against international, Islamic-extremist terrorism. The German Armed Forces (Bundeswehr) participate based on U.N., NATO, and European Commission resolutions. Direct involvement encompasses the Army, Air Force and Navy with a total strength of up to 3,900 soldiers. In the course of these operations, the Army has been involved since early 2002 with special and NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical) defense elements in Operation Enduring Freedom against international terrorism, together with U.S. and Czech NBC defense elements.

Soldiers of the German Special Operations Command are deployed to Afghanistan to fight terrorism. Typical targets are storage sites, command, control and communications areas, cave and tunnel systems, as well as the infiltration routes of Taliban and al Qaeda fighters. The struggle against terrorism in Afghanistan has not yet been completed.

The International Security Assistance Force, operating under U.N. mandate, supports Afghanistan's state organs in the course of maintaining security in Kabul and the local environment. Since February 2002, a contingent of approximately 810 German Army soldiers participated in Operation ISAF. As the second largest provider of forces, Germany is tasked with the tactical leadership of the deployed forces of the Kabul Multinational Brigade (KMNB), which includes, in addition to a German-led German-Dutch-Austrian Battle group, one French and Turkish Battle group each, and other multinational contingents of various sizes. The German contingent, jointly with the Netherlands, assumed ISAF leadership from February 2003 on.

The mission is carried out under difficult circumstances and is primarily marked by an enduring high threat imposed by terrorist and criminal attacks as well as by mines and other ordnance. Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters who remained in the country endanger security in the greater Kabul area through criminal and terrorist attacks.

Outlook. Major parts of the German Army will be deployed for years to come, executing missions abroad. Currently more than 20,000 of its soldiers are involved with preparatory measures, deployment and post-mission activities.
Missions to pacify current and future crises will not be measured in months but in years. The Bundeswehr must be prepared for this eventuality. So far 56 German soldiers have lost their lives during the above mentioned missions, and others suffered serious injuries.


COL. PETER HERRLY, USA RET., is AUSA's Director of European Affairs. Formerly CJCS Chair at the National War College and U.S. Defense Attache in France, he also taught history at the U.S. Military Academy. The photographs and explanatory material for this article were furnished by Brig. Gen. Patrice Mompeyssin, Director of International Affairs on the French Army staff, and Maj. Gen. Werner Widder, commander of the German Army Training and Doctrine Command.





Copyright © 2004 by The Association of the U.S. Army[/b]

Kitsune
02-08-2004, 01:27 PM
Thanks Fantassin.

Operation Ivy
02-08-2004, 01:34 PM
Good Article

Dennis G
02-08-2004, 01:52 PM
Nice article

Schwabo Elite
02-08-2004, 06:12 PM
I agree. :)

Sixgun Symphony
02-08-2004, 06:18 PM
And how much of their budgets go into military expenditures.

It seems to me that the euro-socialists are starving their militaries and provide mere token forces to missions abroad.

obd
02-08-2004, 06:20 PM
Yes Fantassan good article yet that doesnt change my overall impressions of the French who see themselves as an "ideological counterweight" to the Americans. Those are not my words but the words of French president. Also, in many areas the French involvement in Africa is resented and many well remmember the brutal colonialist action of the French in Algeria which recently became a hot topic during the trial of a French officer accused of war crimes. During the trial several disturbing facts about french strategy in fighting the insurgency emerged creating quite a storm. Things such as mass rapes, mass killing, and various tortures such as burning alive, breaking of bones, ****** tortures of many kinds, blindings, etc etc etc and too numerous to list.....

Sixgun Symphony
02-08-2004, 06:35 PM
As much as I am disgusted with the French, I can't see them doing widespread rape and other such crimes. A few cases here and there sure, but not as a policy.

fantassin
02-08-2004, 06:35 PM
Yes, all Frenchmen are sadist and rapist, don't you know that?

BTW, the officer you mention, General Aussaresse was the French liaison officer to Fort Benning in the 60s at the height of the US involvment in Vietnam, as a technical advisor; that probably explains My Lai, the Cobra platoon from the 101st that went on a 6-month rampage of killing and rapes in VN etc...they must have listened to the good general teachings.

A picture of him speaking with US officers is visible in the old book by Leroy Thompson about VN war uniforms published by Blandford in the 80s.

The efficiency of the French paras in Algeria has been demonstrated over and over; they broke the back of the terrorists in Algier in 1957; that's why the film "The battle of Algier" is now mandatory viewing for US officiers going tyo Iraq.

The film was commissioned by the Algerian government after the war. It's extremly biased but few people seem to notice it.

Sixgun Symphony
02-08-2004, 06:40 PM
Why did the French give up on Algeria?

They could have won Algeria by moving much off their surplus population to what was then an underpopulated land and simply displace the Algerians with French.


Now days it seems as if the Algerians are colonizing France.

cut
02-08-2004, 06:40 PM
being of american bastard jealous of our empires

mustamato
02-08-2004, 06:47 PM
Yes Fantassan good article yet that doesnt change my overall impressions of the French who see themselves as an "ideological counterweight" to the Americans. Those are not my words but the words of French president. Also, in many areas the French involvement in Africa is resented and many well remmember the brutal colonialist action of the French in Algeria which recently became a hot topic during the trial of a French officer accused of war crimes. During the trial several disturbing facts about french strategy in fighting the insurgency emerged creating quite a storm. Things such as mass rapes, mass killing, and various tortures such as burning alive, breaking of bones, ****** tortures of many kinds, blindings, etc etc etc and too numerous to list.....

Could you actually read the article? :roll:

Schwabo Elite
02-08-2004, 07:22 PM
Why did the French give up on Algeria?

They could have won Algeria by moving much off their surplus population to what was then an underpopulated land and simply displace the Algerians with French.


Now days it seems as if the Algerians are colonizing France.

Actually there were a lot of French settlers. A lot of them were killed. But I find it interesting that you think of this idea of replacing indigenous people by French "surplus population". First of all France is sparsely setteld comparedto, for example, Germany, Belgium or the Netherlands. But secondly and most importantly, this idea seems to me very recycled. :cantbeli: Ah I remember... Sounds like "Unser Volk braucht Lebensraum im Osten!" Do I need to translate it? Ok, but just for you: "Our people need space of living in the east!"
:bash: :bash: You got a serious problem, guy.

By the way. Why do you feel disgusted by the French. What kind of bad expirience did you, personally, have with them?
I mean, it is ok if I, as a German, say: "The French dusgustme." hey that's only natural. We are neighbours. We have lived next door to the Franzmann quite some time. The USA still belonged to the First Nation Americans for more than half a millenia, when we founded an empire on French and German soil. We fought countless wars, in the last two they only won, because they cheated and got help from abroad. Yes it is ok for me to be disgusted. Yepp! If I tell my friends: "I hate the Frenchies." That's ok. Everyone knows I am envious. The nice girls, the good wine, beautiful cities, great movies, German soil ;) it's a wonderful country! And we should not forget that our French neighbours form the backbone of a great community together with us. The German-French friendship of the latter 20th century was a major winning factor in the cold war and has brought enormous prosperity to both our people.
Considering this, I think it is perfectly ok for me to say "I don't like them" It is more like "Hey asshole neighbour, how was your day?"

So what six-gun-pistolero of the NRA is your excuse for being disgusted by my ally?

SE

Sixgun Symphony
02-08-2004, 07:36 PM
Well German guy. let me remind you that we kicked your butts in WWII and you are still an occupied country. Understand the reality?

The French? Weak allies at best. They were Vichy in WWII, the resistance did not become really popular until they could see that the Allied forces were going to win.

Now as far as Algeria, I simply can't see losing what should have been an easy victory.

cut
02-08-2004, 07:37 PM
Well German guy. let me remind you that we kicked your butts in WWII and you are still an occupied country. Understand the reality?

The French? Weak allies at best. They were Vichy in WWII, the resistance did not become really popular until they could see that the Allied forces were going to win.

Now as far as Algeria, I simply can't see losing what should have been an easy victory.

What is you're intrest in this anyway?

Sixgun Symphony
02-08-2004, 07:39 PM
What is you're intrest in this anyway?

An interest in history. Also love to bash the Frogs and krauts from time to time.

Haiw
02-08-2004, 07:41 PM
Well German guy. let me remind you that we kicked your butts in WWII and you are still an occupied country. Understand the reality?

The French? Weak allies at best. They were Vichy in WWII, the resistance did not become really popular until they could see that the Allied forces were going to win.

Now as far as Algeria, I simply can't see losing what should have been an easy victory.
Try reading a book someday... :roll:

cut
02-08-2004, 07:41 PM
should have known

ibstolidude
02-08-2004, 07:48 PM
that's why the film "The battle of Algier" is now mandatory viewing for US officiers going tyo Iraq.
- HORSE****

It is not mandatory viewing for US officers deploying to Iraq.

Sixgun Symphony
02-08-2004, 07:48 PM
Try reading a book someday...

I could fill a library with the many books that I have read.

Schwabo Elite
02-08-2004, 07:54 PM
Well German guy. let me remind you that we kicked your butts in WWII and you are still an occupied country. Understand the reality?


"Well American guy" understand that in the 2+4 agreements Germany became a fully free coutnry again. not being in "immediate" danger of being overrun by the "homo-left-wing-european-communist-faggots" of the SU any longer and being one whole nation again, we achieved to stroke of this hard time of ours, too.
Let me further remind you that your beloved and great leader, erhhh... president, will pull out his troops of Germany.
Further on yes I remember you "kicked our butts in WWII", but not after you sold us machines to build up the bureaucracy needed to kill millions of innocence, you sponsored Hitler and earned a fortune by the suffering of others.
Further on don't try to beat me on the history level, I have the strong feeling you don't like loosing.

SE

Haiw
02-08-2004, 08:19 PM
Try reading a book someday...

I could fill a library with the many books that I have read.
I wasn't talking about comic books...

Sixgun Symphony
02-08-2004, 09:42 PM
German guy,

You people lost two wars. You are still an occupied country. 2 + 4 Agreements? heh! Look around you, Germany has been occupied by American troops since 1945.

The other **** sounds like revisionist history. Maybe you are going to say that the holocaust was an American conspiracy too? Talk about projection! rofl

Really, you people are such losers.

Rantanplan
02-08-2004, 09:55 PM
OMG! You are the stupidest User here since woodland!

Sixgun Symphony
02-08-2004, 10:01 PM
-sigh- more euro-trash come to nip at my ankles like a small dog.

Annoying, but it would look bad to kick such a small and weak creature.

Sixgun Symphony
02-08-2004, 10:10 PM
http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=french+bashing/v=2/TID=I001_0/l=IVI/*-http://www.bigmattress.com/mt-archives/iraqitraining.jpg


Q. What do you call 100,000 Frenchmen with their arms up?

A. The Army.

cut
02-08-2004, 10:11 PM
Sixgun probably is woodland, can you say weep 'em?

Kilgor
02-08-2004, 10:16 PM
Well German guy. let me remind you that we kicked your butts in WWII and you are still an occupied country. Understand the reality?



Further on yes I remember you "kicked our butts in WWII", but not after you sold us machines to build up the bureaucracy needed to kill millions of innocence, you sponsored Hitler and earned a fortune by the suffering of others.
Further on don't try to beat me on the history level, I have the strong feeling you don't like loosing.

SE

Your country is still full of guilt right ?
Typical, blame your aweful past on someone else.
Grow up, admit it, and move on.

Sixgun Symphony
02-08-2004, 10:28 PM
Sixgun probably is woodland, can you say weep 'em?

I am not this other person you speak of. You can check several other web forums where I have used the handle "sixgun symphony" for up to two years.

http://glocktalk.com/
http://glocksunlocked.com
http://darkforum.com/

Caesar
02-08-2004, 11:28 PM
Sixgun Symphony, I totally respect other's opinions, but one thing's for sure, don't go to far.

On a similar thread, I remember Memphiz saying


any ways why would Russia sell out for oil, i thought they have alot of it. i think we should nuke france and Quebec , damn french

As a Quebec citizen, I think this is very unrespectful toward millions of people in your own country, Canada. English canadian people owe a lot to French canadian and vice-versa. I'm still waiting for an apology.

I see that most of you still insist about what happened in WW2. Our French Canadian fought bravely for an oversees conflict.

The French did the best they could do considering the german "blitzkrieg". Nobody could have been prepared agaisnt such an attack. NOBODY, alright?

Some people talk a lot when they are not directly opposed to the conflict. I beat you would still be in your hole, waiting for the war to end.

Yard Ape
02-09-2004, 12:05 AM
Well German guy. let me remind you that we kicked your butts in WWII and you are still an occupied country. Some would argue this was done by a coalition of allied nations with the USSR bearing the brunt of the task.

surely if you want a ***** contest of nations, you can find something more recent, than the first half of last century, to base an argument on.

Yard Ape
02-09-2004, 12:28 AM
For those who would look to recent history & current trends to address this issue:

Military to military connections between the US and France have always been good. The Frenchmen I meet in Djibouti are first rate and have conducted hardcore training for some of our troops.

The issue has been a French foreign policy that has been quite consistent in its anti-Americanism. As I've heard said before, France is certainly not the 'evil empire'. In fact, during the Cold War, France actaully did some of the covert ops the US couldn't do after Gerald Ford. However, both left and right regimes in France create Polity and Policy with a perceived(and sometimes real sense) of fear for American hegemony.

So listen up, my French brothers, you won't hear bashing from me. Now, I may not like some of your government policies, as you no doubt don't care from some of mine, but civility can pevail.

I haven't posted much in these forums; I get pretty turned off by the whining, bull****, and too many people with a chip on their shoulder.From: No bashing here (http://www.militaryphotos.net)

Durandal
02-09-2004, 12:44 AM
I think this is very unrespectful toward millions of people in your own country, Canada. English canadian people owe a lot to French canadian and vice-versa. I'm still waiting for an apology.

I see that most of you still insist about what happened in WW2. Our French Canadian fought bravely for an oversees conflict.

The French did the best they could do considering the german "blitzkrieg". Nobody could have been prepared agaisnt such an attack. NOBODY, alright?

Ok, as an American, I can agree with most of you that Sixgun is a loon.

I have to step up to the plate on this one.

No offense Ceaser, and while I understand and very much respect the sacrifices made by the CANADIANS, selecting the thousands of the French Canadians as somehow providing more than their share is silly. The fought along side everyone else certainly, but in no way did they actually contribute the vast amount of resources the United States and the Soviet Union did.

And quit making it sound as if the German "blitzkrieg" was some super power used by the Germans. The French could have stopped it, but their training and doctrine and lack of responsive command structure prevented it.

Of course, the best way they could have prevented it was by crosssing a lightly defended Franc/German border why most Germany's mechanized forces were advancing through Poland.

Then again, hindsight is 20/20.

Yard Ape
02-09-2004, 01:04 AM
Durandal,
Concure that, if France had developed the proper parts of its military & had a better plan, France could have been prepaired for the German Blitzkrieg.

However, I though Caesar's comments were directed at Memphiz (not Sixgun), and were intended only to have recognized the French Canadian contribution to Canada's total contribution (and not in a global context).

Caesar,
were you suggesting more than this?

Durandal
02-09-2004, 01:14 AM
Durandal,
Concure that, if France had developed the proper parts of its military & had a better plan, France could have been prepaired for the German Blitzkrieg.

However, I though Caesar's comments were directed at Memphiz (not Sixgun), and were intended only to have recognized the French Canadian contribution to Canada's total contribution (and not in a global context).

Caesar,
were you suggesting more than this?

His comments were not directed at Sixgun. I just wanted to add my opinion of sixgun...so as to avoid confusion on where I stood.

Schwabo Elite
02-09-2004, 06:02 AM
Your country is still full of guilt right ?
Typical, blame your aweful past on someone else.
Grow up, admit it, and move on.´

I never said someone else is to blame for the 2nd Worldwar than Germany, but no one of any IQ above a tomato today is the opinion that Germany could have achieved all these savagery without some help, alot of "looking away" and some allies, as well as alot of sympathy in Europe and the rest of the world.
As allways dictators and their regimes need to see the "enemy" as weak and as easy prey. If the Munic Conference wouldn't have ended in giving Germany total freedom on the Czech issue and would the later "Allies" have declared war, Germany would have crumbled to dust, as it wasn't prepared for an allout war by 1938, not even 1939, not even 1941.

The German military was, by 1939, in a stage of massive build up, but its plans were to be ready for a war with England (all out war against only Enlgand) for 1948. by then the Navy would have been strong enough to defend the Home Fleet and the army and air force would be able to overrun French/British troops. Hitler started the war in 1939 against the will of a lot of his generals, who feared that Germany would feel instant punishment by the British (then patron power of poland) and France (allways feeling bad about Germany getting back old strength). These powers however were not prepared either, as weren't the USA who did not have a major sized army at all (conscript army back then), nor the Sowjets (just killed/deported their military elite). When Hitler realized that the F/B armies weren't to intervene and attack his weak French border he felt right about everyone being a bunch of idiots and this got him into major upwind (GröFaZ etc.).
There was plenty of opportunity to stop German savagery before it started and afterwards before it got to drastically, but the "Allies" were in fact just coexisting countries until Casablanca in 1943. Don't forget the British destroyed big parts of the French Navy, the French weren't homogenously against Hitler (Vichy France) and the US were still cought in their isolation-policy and quite unable to win anything by 1939/40.

SE

Saranof
02-09-2004, 08:14 AM
Why did the French give up on Algeria?

They could have won Algeria by moving much off their surplus population to what was then an underpopulated land and simply displace the Algerians with French.


Now days it seems as if the Algerians are colonizing France.




Your opinions are a bit neo- nazi. Care to explain exactley what you mean?

Haiw
02-09-2004, 08:30 AM
Sixgun Symphony, you know, there's a special saying, and it goes like this:

"If you don't know what you're talking about, SHUT THE F U CK UP YOU PIECE OF MORRONIC ****!!!!"

Schwabo Elite
02-09-2004, 08:52 AM
rofl

XASA
02-09-2004, 09:04 AM
Welcome to MilitaryPhotos.net Sixgun Symphony. Obviously, you're impressed by this site enough to post more than 80 times your first two days here. Too bad none of those posts were enlightening or worth the time it took for you to write them.

Haiw
02-09-2004, 09:53 AM
Well maybe that's a better way to put it...sorry for the little rant, the guy's just drawing the blood from under my nails as we say here.

Caesar
02-09-2004, 10:01 AM
I think this is very unrespectful toward millions of people in your own country, Canada. English canadian people owe a lot to French canadian and vice-versa. I'm still waiting for an apology.

I see that most of you still insist about what happened in WW2. Our French Canadian fought bravely for an oversees conflict.

The French did the best they could do considering the german "blitzkrieg". Nobody could have been prepared agaisnt such an attack. NOBODY, alright?

Ok, as an American, I can agree with most of you that Sixgun is a loon.

I have to step up to the plate on this one.

No offense Ceaser, and while I understand and very much respect the sacrifices made by the CANADIANS, selecting the thousands of the French Canadians as somehow providing more than their share is silly. The fought along side everyone else certainly, but in no way did they actually contribute the vast amount of resources the United States and the Soviet Union did.

And quit making it sound as if the German "blitzkrieg" was some super power used by the Germans. The French could have stopped it, but their training and doctrine and lack of responsive command structure prevented it.

Of course, the best way they could have prevented it was by crosssing a lightly defended Franc/German border why most Germany's mechanized forces were advancing through Poland.

Then again, hindsight is 20/20.

I agree with most of your points but...

Compared to our population and the fact that Canada was not directly attacked, Canada offered an impressive contribution to the war.

Also, the defensive line between Germany and France was very well defended. However, Hitler decided to attack from the North, attackting pacific countries like Luxemburg, Belgium... Thats why I said that the French was not prepared.

I'm not trying to defend the French, I'm sure they can do it by themself, but I like to make things clear.

Caesar
02-09-2004, 10:03 AM
Durandal,
Concure that, if France had developed the proper parts of its military & had a better plan, France could have been prepaired for the German Blitzkrieg.

However, I though Caesar's comments were directed at Memphiz (not Sixgun), and were intended only to have recognized the French Canadian contribution to Canada's total contribution (and not in a global context).

Caesar,
were you suggesting more than this?

Actually, yes, it was partially adressed to Sixgun but mostly to Memphiz. I can't stand someone bashing on others for no reasons.