Just like a Roman mob.....

[Vance]

These Iraqi Shiites are pretty weird. First, they are happy when we liberate them. Then, they make a pilgrimage to Karbala, WHICH WAS BANNED DURING HUESSEIN'S REGIME, the first pilgrimage since the 70s, and shout Anti-American slogans and want a radical Muslim government. Wtf is up with this? We give them their freedom and they tell us to **** off?

[Knave]

They must have learned that from the French.

[papabear]

Did you really believe that all Iraqis would welcome American help in getting rid of Saddam Hussein so that they could build a Western liberal democratic state?

[Vance]

I never said I wanted a ''Western liberal democratic state.'' I just think if they go along with this Muslim extremist thing it will go in a big circle.

[papabear]

Big circle? Maybe the Shiites would be content with a theocracy under their own terms, rather than the "secular" state set up by the Ba'ath party which repressed them for so long.

[stuntman]

It only proves that our men and weman died in vain! Sorry they are animals and although I supported the war and still think we did the right thing, it only shows the only thing care about is war and down with Isreal. they have this enormaous chip on their shoulder. They have been sore losers for the past 1000 years when in fact they hate us because of the crusades? Please the crusades were mainly fought between the Turks, Kurds and northern Africans and the arabs were in between on all sides! They need to grow up or die! Its my opinioun and im sure most people will hate me for it but it was said!

[Ichhabe]

Stuntman; I'm really impressessed by you're knowledge on the history of the crusades,...NOT!!! Please, study more on that subject.

[Knave]

Big circle? Maybe the Shiites would be content with a theocracy under their own terms, rather than the "secular" state set up by the Ba'ath party which repressed them for so long.

Maybe not as far as a US-hating, strict Islamic state like the former Afghanistan or Iran... but maybe seperation of Church and State doesn't need to be the case in Iraq - it's not always necessary for a democratic state to exist. I wouldn't see a problem with an elected government with a few clerics sitting on a council to figure out things for the country.

I do agree though, that Arab "pride" and "ego" is much larger than their actual courage and skill in a war-fighting sense. In the modern era, Arab armies have shown very poorly against well-trained and organized Western-style armies....

[yellowking]

I never said I wanted a ''Western liberal democratic state.'' I just think if they go along with this Muslim extremist thing it will go in a big circle.
It wouldn't be a big circle, they would be in charge now. :cantbeli:

[EliteWolf]

we dont need iraq to turn into another islamic fundamentalist state, having iran is bad enough, they support osama bin hiden too ya know...knowing bush, they are probly next on the hit list.

[Bing]

The Anti-American sentiments appear to be simply the people wanting America out because to them it seems like we're occupying their country. that was not one of our goals as part of this war and it was made pretty clear that we weren't going to occupy it. But what does appear to be happening is the American Gvt. trying to create a Pro-American Gvt. as we're always tried to do in the past. And that in itself is the problem. If the Gvt is Pro-American, but the people are anti-American, then that Gvt. will only last so long. What we need is the support of the people who will then elect pro-American officials. We had their support when we gave them humanitarian aid (food, water) but if we keep doing everything for them, they wont be able to have their own national pride in establishing themselves.

Personally, despite the lack of UN involvement in the war, I think it would appeal to the international community if Bush involved the UN because it is the one organization capable of being able to handle the humanitarian aid and act as an international mediator. I know we (and the British) made the majority of the sacrifices for this war, and some would argue that because we fought the war, we should get a major role in the post war Iraq. But honestly, doing it ourselves is both logistically and economically taxing. Sure we fought the war and we deserve every credit for it, but if you want to be the taxpayer helping people that want you out of their country, then by all means support the approach we seem to be taking now. What i'm trying to get at is, let the UN handle the humanitarian aid, let them take that burden off of us because supplying food, water, medical supplies etc. for an entire country is just something we can't keep paying for. Let the UN have a say in the development of a Post-War Iraq, but most importantly, let the Iraqi people, not just the majority Shi'ite people, but the kurds and other minorites get a say as well. If you want their support, then support what they want and respect that. These are a people who have been repressed for so long and now they are finally free just to see the Americans doing everything for them when infact they want to do it themselves. If i said something in my ignorance then please excuse me.

As for another war, i don't doubt the possibility, we've had two in his presidency already (war on terrorism, war in Iraq). But i doubt it would appeal to anyone at all for another conflict.

[papabear]

I seriously doubt the Shiites would be interested in having the UN come over and bring with them the various programs associated with the UN (namely abortion and birth control in the guise of women's reproductive health and population control). Humanitarian aid? Yes. Other UN programs as well? Probably not. No doubt the Sunnis are not much different on this point.

If they see the UN as embodying Western liberalism--or what they associate with it, it seems unlikely they would want the UN involved in the political restructuring.

[woodland]

Overpopulation and all that crap is BS!!! The UN is the most retarded, most useless, most evil organization ever! (I will go as far as to say that they as bad as Hitler and Stalin) The UN is all about "diversity" and "women's rights" and "reproductive health care" and "child prostitution". WHAT BS those damn stupid hypocrates!

They promote teenage *** and they sponsor the murder of millions of unborn babies each year! Damn fags! The UN should be NUKED! Why didn't the terrorists on 9/11 crash their planes into the UN instead of the WTC? I would have been so happy if the UN would have been destroyed! I would have been dancing in the streets with joy!

I hate, despise, and want to destroy the UN with all my heart, all my mind, and all my soul! Stupid moron globocratic assholes.

THERE IS NO OVERPOPULATION! BULL!!!!! Go home you damn pro-death "diversity" freaks! You are destroying indivuals and their cultures and instead implanting yor retarted politically correct UN culture! You damn criminals! Pro-choice is not that. The baby doesn't GET A CHOICE!
Pro-choice=pro-death! The UN hands out condoms all day to kids and tells them to have all the *** they want! Damn perverted teen *** advocating assholes! They cause young women to be pregnant and then force them to have abortions! Damn assholes! GO TO HELL!!! I hope they all die!

woodland! is a gay pro-UN freak!!!

[Chris1]

ignoring this obviously well rounded mature individual above (as I hope the rest of you do; don't feed the trolls)

I'm afraid some americans must accept that some people just don't like you
Yeah I know, doesn't life suck?
Be happy that they are throwing slogans and not hand grenades.
If they want a Islamic form of Government, thats what they should get.
If the US helps in its creation and steers it in the right direction, who says it has to be a oppressive US hating government?

[Duke]

Life and the study of history is never static, its always dynamic. Meaning you cant look at a few photographs (static) to understand a point in history, you must see the movie (dynamic) of that era. So the observation that the "Shiites are pretty weird" is totally inappropriate. Furthermore you can't just examine the Iraqi Shiite or Shia history to understand their anti-Americanism. You must examine their community from their religious, ethnic, national and sociological perspective to understand their anti-Americanism.
-Remember Islam is the center of most Arabs particularly the Shiites, and feel that their muslim brothers and sisters in Palestine are being oppressed indirectly by the US
-The Shiite uprising in 1991, instigated by the US, was hammered down by Saddam without US intervention, thousands of Shiites subsuquently died.
-The US used Saddam to off set the Iranian threat throughout the eighties regardless of the human rights abuses on the Shiites.
-Iran is a Shia or Shiite dominated country. They hate saddam as much as the Iraqi Shiites. Now the 60% Shiite population of Iraq will control the government. Of course they are tempted to look to Iran as a model of government.
-Saddam regime was a secularist government. The Shiites want nothing like Saddams government.

[warchild1/27scout]

we've seen this before.it is a big circle.in iran we set up a gov't. and the crazy muslims overthrew it and put thier crazy imams in charge of it and now the young people are going to overthrow the crazy muslim gov't. and become a some what free republic.we don't have to worry about iran.it will be changed by the young iranians.everytime a reporter asks "if we go into iraq does that mean we will go into iran too?"that just shows how stupid cnn,ted turner,aaron brown reporters are.gw is'nt losing any sleep on iran.syria's next stop for gw inc.

[vryhpyammoadded]

The US led coalition removed the Baath party so, therefore; they are responsible for cleaning up the mess no matter how long it takes. Doing it any other way (UN, non Coalition) would be wrong and leave the coalition open to suffer the consequences.
The coalition governments have had much experience in reforming subdued hostile states and Iraq is really no different from any other. The manuals have already been written and the tactics have not changed. Maybe some individuals are more fanatic but, the coalition forces are sharp so, give this time and let the carrot and stick do its thing.
I just hope the coalition is ruthless enough to do the ugly work needed to eliminate intrigue from all groups’ foreign, domestic and from supposed allies. Also, the US 2004 election will pretty much turn this into a success or failure depending on who gains control that term. Time, and a lot of wet work in Iran and the Middle East will tell.

[papabear]

The coalition governments have had much experience in reforming subdued hostile states and Iraq is really no different from any other.
To which hostile states, that have supposedly been reformed by Western coalitions, would you be referring?


I just hope the coalition is ruthless enough to do the ugly work needed to eliminate intrigue from all groups’ foreign, domestic and from supposed allies. Also, the US 2004 election will pretty much turn this into a success or failure depending on who gains control that term. Time, and a lot of wet work in Iran and the Middle East will tell.
And how are we supposed to remove intrigue from a religious movement that is at 1 billion + members and growing, without implicating ourselves as the culprits and thereby creating more martyrs for the cause?

[papabear]

we've seen this before.it is a big circle.in iran we set up a gov't. and the crazy muslims overthrew it and put thier crazy imams in charge of it and now the young people are going to overthrow the crazy muslim gov't. and become a some what free republic.we don't have to worry about iran.it will be changed by the young iranians.

That's a rather loose characterization of the Muslims with whom we have disagreements, isn't it?

Even if we were to grant that there are some in Iran willing to advocate a change in government, what makes you think that this movement will be successful, and won't be suppressed with violence if it ever gets "serious"? Perhaps the government of Iran is allowing such signs of reform in order to present a more moderate face and gain Western aid, when in fact no one in power intends such a movement to be successful or to have much influence?

[kimouche]

I never said I wanted a ''Western liberal democratic state.'' I just think if they go along with this Muslim extremist thing it will go in a big circle.

But that's exactly what islamic extremists want. They don't just want to kill americans and destroy Israel. The bigger picture is the whole world governed by Islam. That's what the jihad calls for.....

Therefore this Islamic state thing they want shouldn't be allowed.