Canada, "Who needs an army?"

[Sixgun Symphony]

By September, the Canadian army will have only 500 troops available for deployment, fewer soldiers than the National Hockey League has players.

Continued at:

www.theglobeandmail.com (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPPrint/LAC/20040114/IBBITSON14/TPComment/)

I hope their new Prime Minister can help that place.

[ArmedPacifist]

bull****.

[SeanAshi]

I hope their new Prime Minister can help that place
There is no quick solution for this issue, how do most Canadians feel about their military? do they believe the need a larger better equiped military or just leave it as it is?

[Sixgun Symphony]

how do most Canadians feel about their military?

They practically flogged their snipers for having been so good at what they do. Too many hippies are running the show up there.

[ArmedPacifist]

how do most Canadians feel about their military?

They practically flogged their snipers for having been so good at what they do. Too many hippies are running the show up there.

Again, bull****. You know nothing about the goings on up here.

[SeanAshi]

You know nothing about the goings on up here
Your right, thats why I asked
There is no quick solution for this issue, how do most Canadians feel about their military? do they believe the need a larger better equiped military or just leave it as it is?

[ShadowNeo]

Although of course a military forum is going to be biased on the military side, sometimes there isn't really a justified need for a large army.

I don't know the Canadia situation and I don't pretend to, but it does not seem that Canada needs a large military, living next door to the USA pretty much explains that. Of course it would be sensible to have a reasonable sized force that can be used for domestic affairs, but there is no real motivation for bolstering forces and there is for downsizing.

[Kaos]

Again, bull****. You know nothing about the goings on up here.
Just to add, that he knows nothing about everywhere in the world. but it's so fun to talk about things you don't know, or you don't see, or you don't understand.
but for sure, with guys like him, there is some form of life on the forum.
With some intelligence??? Well, sorry, but I doubt it...

[stuntman]

I don't really believe that!
I think they should only leave 500 behind for crisis! But the rest can go and fight. Although I tend to fight with our buddies from the north I literally pray this isn't true. Canada happens to produce a lot of our latest stuff from camo to lav's it's a real shame if this is true. IMHO...

[Chris1]

Don't be silly ShadowNeo, have you not heard about the militant Eskimo threat from the north?
with their infiltraiting immigration?
and suitcase nukes
and suicide walruses

SeanAshi, I believe the comment was aimed at Sixgun Symphony.

SS, believe it or not, there are other measurements for a Governments success than the number of men it has to beat the **** out of small countries.

[Sixgun Symphony]

Again, bull****. You know nothing about the goings on up here.

I live right by the border and get Canadian television. The way Canadian media covered the news about the prowess of the Canadian snipers, you would think they were criminals.

[Sixgun Symphony]

SS, believe it or not, there are other measurements for a Governments success than the number of men it has to beat the **** out of small countries.

Like living under the US defense umbrella. Yup, gotcha. The small token forces you guys can send make up for everything.

[Kaos]

So you got a TV????
:cantbeli:

[Chris1]

SS, believe it or not, there are other measurements for a Governments success than the number of men it has to beat the **** out of small countries.

Like living under the US defense umbrella. Yup, gotcha. The small token forces you guys can send make up for everything.
Congrats **** wit, you can make poor assumptions
I am BRITISH not CANADIAN
yes, there is a difference (has been for a while now)
Besides which, you know that ****-hole you AMERICANS started a few years back (I'll give you a clue, begins with an A) well who is still there?
Canadian soldiers
Canadian soldiers who have died helping you fight YOUR conflict
Where have you been that is so special that allows you to criticise them?

[Saint]

By September, the Canadian army will have only 500 troops available for deployment, fewer soldiers than the National Hockey League has players.


To clear something up, I believe what that article is refering to is that Canada will only have 500 troops for deployment IN Afghanistan come September. Here in Canada we will be giving the other soldiers a rest and re-building our strength for the next major deployment (if there is one?).
It's not the fact that we are loosing soldiers, they're just taking a break from deployment.
And Im in favour for Paul Martin throwin some more $$$ into the Military yes...please....

[Sixgun Symphony]

Chris,

I never did critisize the Candian troops themselves. I have only critisized the Canadian government for being so weak on their military spending.

[Nizark]

Question: Does Canada have any kind of law like Posse Comitatus here in the US where the military can't be used for domestic law enforcement?

Also, has the Canadian military ever been used on Canadian soil? Like for a manhunt or riots or whatever? Not including disasters.

[Whistler]

I'm a Canadian and I don't know why so many other Canadians get so pissed off when somebody points out the funding crisis in the Armed Forces.

Its a fact, they aren't trying to insult us. Instead of ignoring the fact and pretending that everything is fine in the military we should acknowledge it and demand that the Government do something about it.

Otherwise, it will never get fixed, and will pass breaking point (if it hasn't already).

And its not an insult to the troops either, they do a great job considering all the funding BS they have to put up with.

[Seraphim]

Question: Does Canada have any kind of law like Posse Comitatus here in the US where the military can't be used for domestic law enforcement?

Also, has the Canadian military ever been used on Canadian soil? Like for a manhunt or riots or whatever? Not including disasters.

Yes

[Whistler]

Question: Does Canada have any kind of law like Posse Comitatus here in the US where the military can't be used for domestic law enforcement?

Also, has the Canadian military ever been used on Canadian soil? Like for a manhunt or riots or whatever? Not including disasters.

No posse commitatus that I know of.

And yes, the military has been used on our soil, very controversially at times.

In the early 70s (1971 or 72 I believe) a bunch of rag tag seperatists started setting off bombs and kidnapping officials in Quebec, so the Prime Minister initiated the War Measures Act (like Martial Law, pretty much suspends ALL rights, so the cops can lock you up for no reason if they want) and sent in the Army + 1000s of police to keep order. There were also soldiers in Ottawa around the parliament to guard it.

http://www.cbc.ca/onair/shows/blackoctober/blackoct3-o.jpg

And more recently in the early 1990s a bunch of indians in Quebec had an armed revolt over land issues and started shooting at the Police, the Army was sent in to take care of that too.

http://www.campus-adr.org/webquest/images/Okamontage.jpg

[Sixgun Symphony]

Its a fact, they aren't trying to insult us.

I had no intention of insulting the Canadian troops. They're good soldiers and I hope that I did not come across in a way that would appear that I was disrespecting them.

I just wanted to point out that the Canadian government is starving their military. I suspect that there are too many hippies running the show up there and they loathe the military. I hope that new leadership will turn things around.

BTW, did those snipers ever get their medals?

[Chris1]

SS, unfortunately you're comments annoy me.

Military spending has a relationship to force commitments.
A country with low force commitments does not need a high level of spending.
Canada's spending is off, yep, know that.
However a country of iirc 27 odd million will never equal that of 270, yet Canada still maintains commitments oversea's.
It still needs to maintain a cycle of rest, training and a reserve for potential conflicts.
'Token' deployments to the US Army would be difficult for a country like Canada without affecting previous commitments and its force structure.
Simply throwing money at this will not fix this, only reducing the level of commitment and who is to say if they should send troops to the Balkans (a long standing commitment to improve the quality of life of the poeple of that region) or Iraq (a ****-hole which will inevitably lead to casualties)
The elected Government of Canada.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

To answer the original question yes we do have a problem with our military funding, but with time it will get sorted out.


It still needs to maintain a cycle of rest, training and a reserve for potential conflicts.

From what I understand thats the main reason why they are pulling out.

[[AFSOC]]

wha??

THey'll only have 500 troops available in Afghanistan. They styll have a **** load of troops in the Former Yugoslavia.

[Nunavut's sewage]

No Roto 14 is the last tour of Canadians in Boznia

[Nunavut's sewage]

No Roto 14 is the last tour of Canadians in Boznia

[Jack Mehoff]

They still need an Army to put down those pesky French Canuck in Quebec

[ArmedPacifist]

I was just annoyed because everyone who see's a TV report about the stae of the CF automatically claims to be an expert on the situation and demands more money be put into the military, well they are a bunch of armchair wannabe's in my opinion, because if they were experts, they would understand it's not how much you have, but what you do with the money you have. Recently a large majority of the CF defense budget was put into new facilities and re-vamping of garrisons and bases. This money could have been used for other things of course.

Also to expand on my original Bull**** comment to Sixgun potato shooter; only 500 troops available to go to Afghanistan? Do you know how many reserve units in Canada could be sent (on their way at least) to Afghanistan at any time of any day if the situation called for it? I'll give you a hint....more than 500 troops.


I also think it's funny that the major political commentary going on here about the CF is being done by people who have never served in the CF (or any other military group).
I myself am currently serving in the CF so I think that lets me know a few things the globe and mail doesn't.

[memphiz]

yeh its sad that they're pulling out of Afghanistan but the 500 being left there will just be rebuilding so thats good. our military is strong but stretched very thin, so by pulling out alot of troops it will give our military a chance to regroup, rebuild, and then get proper financing, for future operations. but most likly this will only be for a year (thats what ive heard) but im not in the military yet so im not completly sure of everything you'd have to ask Ducimus19 or or another person in the CF.

as for the questions about if Canada has used military on ownsoil, its yes as pointed out before-Trudeau called on the War Measures Act in 1970(i think it was the only time this was ever called upon) and it was called on against the FLQ(freedom les Quebecious, i think, im not sure 'bout the meaning of FLQ) but any ways the FLQ kidnapped politcal leaders etc..

and the OKA confrontation the War Measure Act wasnt called, because they we just security over the land dispute between the Mohawk Comunity outside Montreal( i think) and the town of OKA- they wanted to expand their golf course.. a cop was killed by a Mohawk sniper...

[ArmedPacifist]

The Army reserve was also mobilized to shovel snow in Toronto and battle the flood in winipeg.

[Sixgun Symphony]

Recently a large majority of the CF defense budget was put into new facilities and re-vamping of garrisons and bases. This money could have been used for other things of course.


There should be enough money to buy those new facilities and re-vamp garrissons and "other things" like adding a new airborne division or two. Add a few aircraft carriers and escort ships, then have some left over for a payraise to the troops.

BTW, I am only forwarding a newsreport. If it is really B/S, then send them a message about their reporting.

[ArmedPacifist]

Recently a large majority of the CF defense budget was put into new facilities and re-vamping of garrisons and bases. This money could have been used for other things of course.


There should be enough money to buy those new facilities and re-vamp garrissons and "other things" like adding a new airborne division or two. Add a few aircraft carriers and escort ships, then have some left over for a payraise to the troops.

First off, there wouldn't be enough money to do all of those even IF we scraped all our current programs, and second, WHY would we do something like that?

We no longer have an airborne regiment but why would we need one? It's not like we don't still have the para program in the CF, we have plenty of airborne units, aircraft carriers? Why the **** would we need those? We have "escort ships" they're called Destroyers, and pay raise to the troops? Not bloody likely.

I haven't read any of your other posts, but just from this one post you have made I can tell you have no military experience or you are just EXTREMELY naive and are in no position to comment on ANYTHING the CF chooses to do.

Aircraft carriers?! I mean...come on man :bash:

[Maverick77]

Canadian Military spending should be jacked up to to at least 7%

**** the education system thats already gone to ****

plus the french and indians get way too much money cause of Chretien.

but that will be fixed hopefully.


plus that 500 number is bull****

[SeanAshi]

Besides which, you know that ****-hole you AMERICANS started a few years back (I'll give you a clue, begins with an A) well who is still there?

al Qaeda started that **** when they attacked the United States

you are just EXTREMELY naive and are in no position to comment on ANYTHING the CF chooses to do.

Everyone is in the position to say whatever they want. ;)

[Sixgun Symphony]

ArmedPacifist,

US Navy veteran here.

You gotta learn to think big. If you don't, then you will always be begging for table scraps.

[ArmedPacifist]

ArmedPacifist,

US Navy veteran here.

You gotta learn to think big. If you don't, then you will always be begging for table scraps.

WRONG, you have to learn how to think realisticly you dumb piece of ****.

YOU have to learn that people who ARE currently serving in the CF know a hell of a lot more about things long range than you do.

Think big? If you were thinking big you would stop posting, that way your reputation wouldn't be that of an armchair general, strike that, you don't rate that good. Armchair "long term planner", sound nice?

[Yard Ape]

how do most Canadians feel about their military?

They practically flogged their snipers for having been so good at what they do. Too many hippies are running the show up there.
That is B.S. Our soldiers recieved no end of prais & public gratification when they returned from warfighting in Afghanistan.

The only bad press that came out of that was when the Prime Minister did not want to make a decision on certain . . . "ROEs". Our SF guys made the decision themselves when the time came and the politicians where called to task in the media for not having made decisions that where thier job to make. (Probably for the better though. The soldiers chose the right course of action & I doubt the politicians would have). The military came out of that issue clean.

[Sixgun Symphony]

That you are getting so angry, I must be touching on some raw nerves.

Do yourself a favor and vote in some pro-military candidates to national office.

Do more with less? :roll:

[SFontaine]

Again, bull****. You know nothing about the goings on up here.


I hope to god you don't take the quote in your sig literally. I was being SARCASTIC due to all the "YEY YEY CANADA" people.

[Whistler]

We no longer have an airborne regiment but why would we need one? It's not like we don't still have the para program in the CF, we have plenty of airborne units, aircraft carriers? Why the f*** would we need those? We have "escort ships" they're called Destroyers, and pay raise to the troops? Not bloody likely.



"Who needs an airborne regiment?"

That is Liberal party BULL****.

The Airborne Regiment was one of the most valuable units in the CF. Disbanding them was a retarded political stunt that had nothing to do with whether we needed them or not.

The Parachute companies we have now are great guys, but are nowhere near as capable as the old Airborne Regiment.

Cutbacks cutbacks cutbacks, what a joke.

I do agree with you on the aircraft carriers though, but our destroyers sure could use an upgrade (or even better, a modern replacement).

[Saint]

ArmedPacifist...what is your current affiliation with the CF if you don't mind me asking.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

I can definately see that they have been putting up new buildings in the military base in my town.

I dont claim to be an expert on this subject, but I'm just glad this problem is getting addressed. Its a step in the right direction, and hopefully when I join it wont be something I'd need to worry about.

[SOG]

I was just annoyed because everyone who see's a TV report about the stae of the CF automatically claims to be an expert on the situation and demands more money be put into the military,

funny, when americans get "annoyed" at the constant pecking at "everything" america does, were labeled as blind patriotic machine following fools. annoying isnt it? it could just be there is more of us then anyone at this site and various "americans" take stands on various topics, yet were all labeled?


Simply throwing money at this will not fix this, only reducing the level of commitment and who is to say if they should send troops to the Balkans (a long standing commitment to improve the quality of life of the poeple of that region) or Iraq (a ****-hole which will inevitably lead to casualties)

so iraq is a **** hole because you disagree with why were there? just curious? so it has no chance of being as you put it "a long standing commitment to improve the quality of life of the poeple of that region"? odd, i remember bush outlining long term plans and MANY opposing these plans both foreign and domestic. lead to casualties? the balkans has not? wow.

[ArmedPacifist]

First off to SFFontaine, I just put it in my sig to piss you off ;)

Second, we REALLY do not need an airborne regiment, especially the one we had, the individual jump companies we have now are much better.

Lastly,

ArmedPacifist...what is your current affiliation with the CF if you don't mind me asking.

I am an Army Reservist with 32 Brigade, do you wish to know my individual unit and MOC?

[Damn]

The Canadian government could take a big first step by chopping down on the enormous defence bureaucracy.

I read that the non-combatant (civilian) bureaucracy at National Defence HQ in Ottawa chews up more than 40% of the total annual defence budjet. That means more than 4.5 billion dollars could be reinvested into hiring more soldiers and buying new equipment rather than propping up the comfy lifestyles of fat civil servants....

[Sixgun Symphony]

ArmedPacifist...what is your current affiliation with the CF if you don't mind me asking.

I would ask him if he has any affiliation with political parties that are out to trim the military budget even more.

Of course smaller is better :roll:

[ArmedPacifist]

ArmedPacifist...what is your current affiliation with the CF if you don't mind me asking.

I would ask him if he has any affiliation with political parties that are out to trim the military budget even more.

Of course smaller is better :roll:

More like, thinking realisticly WITH ACTUAL military experience is better than sitting behind a monitor "thinking big" right?

[SeanAshi]

Canada is a target by the terrorist just as The United States and Israel, the word is that terrorist are recruiting people in Latin America, building arms, we know that there will be more terrorist attacks, but the question is when and where.

[ArmedPacifist]

Canada is a target by the terrorist just as The United States and Israel, the word is that terrorist are recruiting people in Latin America, building arms, we know that there will be more terrorist attacks, but the question is when and where.

I've heard both arguements and the conclusion that I came too was that the terrorist threat IS in Canada, but not targetting Canada, rather getting plans together for an attack on the United States while using Canada as a safe haven for those plans.

[Sixgun Symphony]

More like, thinking realisticly WITH ACTUAL military experience is better than sitting behind a monitor "thinking big" right?

You said that you were in the reserves, a "weekend warrior" as we active duty guys used to say.

I served in the United States Navy and oh yea! Bigger budget = more ships, more aircraft, more troops = greater capability.

Anyway, what is your party affiliation. I just bet this guy belongs to some liberal party that wants to make deeper cuts in the military budget.

[Minjin]

Two parts to my post.

First, opinions on the state of the military. I know some military personnel and I hang out with a bunch of airsofters and armchair military historians, so most of the people I hang out with and/or talk to support a revamping of the military. And growth. I find a lot of Western Canadians are all for helping out the military.

Second, Canadian targets have appeared on a number of lists of probable terrorist targets. Especially oilsands projects, refineries and nuclear power plants.

Anyhoo, off to scan the rest of the forums.

[Saint]

I've heard both arguements and the conclusion that I came too was that the terrorist threat IS in Canada, but not targetting Canada, rather getting plans together for an attack on the United States while using Canada as a safe haven for those plans.


Im gonna have to agree with you on that one. It does not seem like Canada is too big of a target, however, things can change.




I am an Army Reservist with 32 Brigade, do you wish to know my individual unit and MOC?


Sure, Im just curious in case you are wondering. I was an Army Reservist with the EK Scots about 2 years ago (took time off for school) and Im going back to that unit around may/june.

[ArmedPacifist]

I've heard both arguements and the conclusion that I came too was that the terrorist threat IS in Canada, but not targetting Canada, rather getting plans together for an attack on the United States while using Canada as a safe haven for those plans.


Im gonna have to agree with you on that one. It does not seem like Canada is too big of a target, however, things can change.




I am an Army Reservist with 32 Brigade, do you wish to know my individual unit and MOC?


Sure, Im just curious in case you are wondering. I was an Army Reservist with the EK Scots about 2 years ago (took time off for school) and Im going back to that unit around may/june.

Cool, I'll send it to you VIA PM.

Oh yeah and Six-Gun we in the Army have a few names for people in the navy, if you WERE even in the navy.

What's my party affiliation? Wouldn't you like to know, you make me fear for 14 year olds everywhere who are just like you.

[Sixgun Symphony]

So you want to talk **** eh?

Well how much do you, a part-timer, really know your job? Do you play basketball at your weekend drills?

I remember the last Gulf War, we had all of these reserves come in. If a reservist had no prior active duty service, then we had to show him how to do everything.

Civilians really.

[ArmedPacifist]

Never played basketball in my life and would you STOP comparing apples and oranges already.

We live in different countries and we serve/served in seperate branches of the military (if you did).

Talking ****? No, I'm pointing out facts, you don't have a clue what your talking about when you pipe up about the affairs of the CF as an American who has never served in the CF.

[Skaman]

I need an ARMY or else I dont have a job. :(

[soma]

http://www.campus-adr.org/webquest/images/Okamontage.jpg

What's sad is that the native looks better equipped then the real soldier :(

[Skaman]

http://www.campus-adr.org/webquest/images/Okamontage.jpg

What's sad is that the native looks better equipped then the real soldier :(


Hmm, bush caps are better than helemts, and scarfs are better than webbing?

[panzerfaust]

I wish we would grab a mit and get in the game- I really feel embarrased about the Canadian Armed forces- All my life they've been under-funded and the equipment sucks- I think we should gear up for the inevitable water wars that are to come- the invasion from the south- we gotta get an airforce and some tanks and stuff.

[ShadowNeo]

To be honest, what would be the real scenarios which would justify increased Canadian military spending?

1. Alien Invasion
2. Conventional World War 3
3. Alien Invasion
4. Cyborg Nazi Occupation of Alaska

Seriously though, Canada could always go along the route of smaller, but better trained/equipped. With smaller forces, they could expose a larger number of them to cross-training experiences (something I assume isn't available to all soldiers) and could do this more often. There are benefits to smaller forces if you take a while to think about them.

[Jack Mehoff]

To be honest, what would be the real scenarios which would justify increased Canadian military spending?

1. Alien Invasion
2. Conventional World War 3
3. Alien Invasion
4. Cyborg Nazi Occupation of Alaska

Seriously though, Canada could always go along the route of smaller, but better trained/equipped. With smaller forces, they could expose a larger number of them to cross-training experiences (something I assume isn't available to all soldiers) and could do this more often. There are benefits to smaller forces if you take a while to think about them.

Pesky french Canadians :lol:

[mack pl]

Oh,yeah.French uprising in Quebec.;)

[Caesar]

OMFG guys!

What's with all that Quebec bashing?

We are Canadian like you and we don't deserve to be insulted. English Canadians need French Canadian and vice-versa. Are you so "senil" to understand such thing?

[ArmedPacifist]

OMFG guys!

What's with all that Quebec bashing?

We are Canadian like you and we don't deserve to be insulted. English Canadians need French Canadian and vice-versa. Are you so "senil" to understand such thing?

Most of the French bashing is coming from Non-Canadians.

My only problem with Quebec is the evil Sergeant Majors that are born there.

[Caesar]

Most of the French bashing is coming from Non-Canadians.

No, there's a lot of Canadian, mostly from West, bashing Quebec for no specific reason. I'd just like to know why.

[Skaman]

Most of the French bashing is coming from Non-Canadians.

No, there's a lot of Canadian, mostly from West, bashing Quebec for no specific reason. I'd just like to know why.


I am from the West and I like the French, no worriers. People are just fed-up with separatist movements and French patronage appointments and 'back scratching'

Unbalanced bilingualism is also at fault.

Nonetheless, I think the French are great, and I won’t let these points skew my opinion.

[Maj12]

OMFG guys!

What's with all that Quebec bashing?

We are Canadian like you and we don't deserve to be insulted. English Canadians need French Canadian and vice-versa. Are you so "senil" to understand such thing?

STFU Frenchie!
:fork:
...and lock the door on your way out.

[Salty Dog]

Canadian soldiers who have died helping you fight YOUR conflict


if canadian soldiers are fighting there, wouldn't that make it their fight as well?........ :cantbeli:

[Scrim]

Ducimus loves the French. What a ****ing surprise.

[ArmedPacifist]

Ducimus loves the French. What a f*** surprise.

Yeah, liking your fellow country men should be illegal.

[Falco]

OMFG guys!

What's with all that Quebec bashing?

We are Canadian like you and we don't deserve to be insulted. English Canadians need French Canadian and vice-versa. Are you so "senil" to understand such thing?

STFU Frenchie!
:fork:
...and lock the door on your way out.

He's not from France :slap:

[Caesar]

Yeah I'm not from France, telling me you can't read at least my avatar.

If you want to insult French-Canadian or French, at least say why you don't like us. I can take it you know. All I read are bashing posts with no real point.

Come on now, take 5 min and empty your heart before us.

[Tommy Gunn]

The French have mede themselves very unpopular here in the States. They're backstabbers. :-*$

[Spleen]

ArmedPacifist...what is your current affiliation with the CF if you don't mind me asking.

I would ask him if he has any affiliation with political parties that are out to trim the military budget even more.

Of course smaller is better :roll:

More like, thinking realisticly WITH ACTUAL military experience is better than sitting behind a monitor "thinking big" right?

And how long have you been in the reserves? How much active duty have you seen? Hell, how many days of any duty have you done?

Being a fairly new infantry reservist doesn't exactly awe us all with your worldliness and military experience. Hell, I've met you guy, and you seemed all of maybe 17 years old, unless I've got the wrong Canadian "ArmedPacifist"? Wasn't that long ago either. Granted, you could just be one of those guys who looks younger than he is.

Don't try to pull an attitude you don't deserve to have, it really makes you look sad. If I have the wrong guy, I'll reconsider all your posts, but I would still like to know exactly how much service you have ( in terms of days spent on military service, not duration of service ). And I'd like to know how old you are, if you don't mind telling. And before the generic answer of all youth comes ( "Does it matter how old I am?" ), yes it does. Life experience is a great teacher.

Now, either make your points clear ( Why don't we need an airborne regiment? What makes the existing para-units better? etc. We want the reasons, not just the broad sweeping statements, with a qualifier of "You're wrong because you never served in the CF!" ) or at the very least show us that you have the kind of experience that lends some weight to these statements. Cause right now, you just annoy the hell out of me with your opinionated statements and ridiculous suggestions that you just know better than everyone else.

Sixgun Shooter has clearly stated that he served in the USNavy. Do you have any reason to doubt him other than the fact that he disagrees with your opinions? Why then should anyone here believe you about your service?

[Spleen]

French Canadians are very different from French from France. There are and have been many french canadians serving in Afghanistan. Do you look down on the French speaking people in the US becuase they share a language with a country who opposes your actions?

[fantassin]

From Army Magazine, September 2003

In addition, after September 11, 2001, the French Army was asked to mount a major effort in Afghanistan. There, French soldiers operate in close conjunction with their American counterparts, notably in training the Afghan Army, participating in the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF), and deploying special operations forces in a combat role.


The French Air Force was the second largest contributor to the air campaign over Afghanistan with Mirage 2000s, C160s, C130s, KC135FRs as well as French Navy's Rafales and Super Etendards.

Not to mention covert operation from September 2001

[Whistler]

ArmedPacifist...what is your current affiliation with the CF if you don't mind me asking.

I would ask him if he has any affiliation with political parties that are out to trim the military budget even more.

Of course smaller is better :roll:

More like, thinking realisticly WITH ACTUAL military experience is better than sitting behind a monitor "thinking big" right?

And how long have you been in the reserves? How much active duty have you seen? Hell, how many days of any duty have you done?

Being a fairly new infantry reservist doesn't exactly awe us all with your worldliness and military experience. Hell, I've met you guy, and you seemed all of maybe 17 years old, unless I've got the wrong Canadian "ArmedPacifist"? Wasn't that long ago either. Granted, you could just be one of those guys who looks younger than he is.

Don't try to pull an attitude you don't deserve to have, it really makes you look sad. If I have the wrong guy, I'll reconsider all your posts, but I would still like to know exactly how much service you have ( in terms of days spent on military service, not duration of service ). And I'd like to know how old you are, if you don't mind telling. And before the generic answer of all youth comes ( "Does it matter how old I am?" ), yes it does. Life experience is a great teacher.

Now, either make your points clear ( Why don't we need an airborne regiment? What makes the existing para-units better? etc. We want the reasons, not just the broad sweeping statements, with a qualifier of "You're wrong because you never served in the CF!" ) or at the very least show us that you have the kind of experience that lends some weight to these statements. Cause right now, you just annoy the hell out of me with your opinionated statements and ridiculous suggestions that you just know better than everyone else.

Sixgun Shooter has clearly stated that he served in the USNavy. Do you have any reason to doubt him other than the fact that he disagrees with your opinions? Why then should anyone here believe you about your service?

WELL SAID!

Merci :).

[pAt]

they bash Quebec cuz they tried to sperate from Canada a while back and it didnt work

[Whistler]

Things go deeper than that and it is mostly to do with the Fed Govt (the Liberals) and the Quebec govt.

Take a look at the latest newspapers and all the money laundering and **** like that. Thats what pisses people off.

Personally I'm pissed off about it and think the Quebec govt is a bunch of whiners, and the Federal Govt are a bunch of crooks that kiss their ass too much, but I still love Quebec and most French Canadians I know.

[ArmedPacifist]

ArmedPacifist...what is your current affiliation with the CF if you don't mind me asking.

I would ask him if he has any affiliation with political parties that are out to trim the military budget even more.

Of course smaller is better :roll:

More like, thinking realisticly WITH ACTUAL military experience is better than sitting behind a monitor "thinking big" right?

And how long have you been in the reserves? How much active duty have you seen? Hell, how many days of any duty have you done?

Being a fairly new infantry reservist doesn't exactly awe us all with your worldliness and military experience. Hell, I've met you guy, and you seemed all of maybe 17 years old, unless I've got the wrong Canadian "ArmedPacifist"? Wasn't that long ago either. Granted, you could just be one of those guys who looks younger than he is.

Don't try to pull an attitude you don't deserve to have, it really makes you look sad. If I have the wrong guy, I'll reconsider all your posts, but I would still like to know exactly how much service you have ( in terms of days spent on military service, not duration of service ). And I'd like to know how old you are, if you don't mind telling. And before the generic answer of all youth comes ( "Does it matter how old I am?" ), yes it does. Life experience is a great teacher.

Now, either make your points clear ( Why don't we need an airborne regiment? What makes the existing para-units better? etc. We want the reasons, not just the broad sweeping statements, with a qualifier of "You're wrong because you never served in the CF!" ) or at the very least show us that you have the kind of experience that lends some weight to these statements. Cause right now, you just annoy the hell out of me with your opinionated statements and ridiculous suggestions that you just know better than everyone else.

Sixgun Shooter has clearly stated that he served in the USNavy. Do you have any reason to doubt him other than the fact that he disagrees with your opinions? Why then should anyone here believe you about your service?

You have some good points so I'll respond to the ones requiring my response.

The first one that caught my attention was the age, which is not correct I was not 17, although I did start playing airsoft at the age of 17 (and I was in the reserves back then too) so you may have seen me at a game earlier, so 18 just to answer the question. How many DAYS of service had I have? No offense, but that's kind of a ridiculous question that I couldn't answser even if I wanted too (unless I went to payroll) By the way, the average age of the users here is 18-19, so there's nothing out of place about an under 20 reservist on these boards.

My experptise? Well, I'm not an infantrymen, I'm in a support Battalion so I think that would put me in a better position to understand the shortcomings of our equipment more than an infantry battalion (as I end up having to fix it).

The only reason I made the basic arguement "You're wrong because you never served in the CF!" which I didn't say so in so many words but did imply, was basically that someone who has served one day in the CF would know more about it than someone who has served for 1 year in any other military around the world.

I only made some of those stateements, because Sixgun suggested Canada needed aircraft carriers and then said I was bringing the country down because I wasn't "thinking big", so the attack started.

What "attitude" have I shown other than the fact I got a ltitle upset because sixgun seems like a troll?

As for solidifying my arguements, I'll keep that in mind for the future ;)

[Saint]

I like french-canadians. I've been to Quebec city to party, and Montreal and Laval for tournaments and they are generally nice people. I heard from some Reg force CF members that in St. Jean they hate you if you are anglophone and Military.

[Spleen]

You have some good points so I'll respond to the ones requiring my response.

The first one that caught my attention was the age, which is not correct I was not 17, although I did start playing airsoft at the age of 17 (and I was in the reserves back then too) so you may have seen me at a game earlier, so 18 just to answer the question. How many DAYS of service had I have? No offense, but that's kind of a ridiculous question that I couldn't answser even if I wanted too (unless I went to payroll) By the way, the average age of the users here is 18-19, so there's nothing out of place about an under 20 reservist on these boards.

The point of the question about days of service is theres a big difference between a reservist who has served for one year, only doing weekends, and a reservist who has served one year including a summer of full time. They are both 1 year of service, but the full time guy has at least 40 or 50 more days of service, equivalent to an extra year of every second weekend I believe? Therefore one has about twice as much experience as the other.



My experptise? Well, I'm not an infantrymen, I'm in a support Battalion so I think that would put me in a better position to understand the shortcomings of our equipment more than an infantry battalion (as I end up having to fix it).

The only reason I made the basic arguement "You're wrong because you never served in the CF!" which I didn't say so in so many words but did imply, was basically that someone who has served one day in the CF would know more about it than someone who has served for 1 year in any other military around the world.

The only thing they would know more about is what it's like to spend 1 day in the CF. Hopefully the CF takes experiences and lessons learned from other militaries into consideration, and I hope you can too.

Yes, it's hard for someone who has never served to know what the condition of our equipment is, whether it needs servicing, upgrading, or replacing, etc., but their opinions on how big a military should be, what type of equipment Canada could use etc. may well be well thought out and useful. To dismiss their opinions out of hand just because they never served in the CF would be folly, IMO.

That said, I THINK the Aircraft carrier line was a joke. If not, I'd love to hear what he thinks Canada needs an aircraft carrier (or two! )for!



I only made some of those stateements, because Sixgun suggested Canada needed aircraft carriers and then said I was bringing the country down because I wasn't "thinking big", so the attack started.

What "attitude" have I shown other than the fact I got a ltitle upset because sixgun seems like a troll?


The attitude I get from you is that you are 100% certain that you have thought everything through to it's ultimate conclusion, and there is zero chance of your being wrong. You don't address others points, you just dismiss them as discussed above. In my experience it's a pretty common attitude among youth who believe that they are more intelligent than everyone else. All the intelligence in the world won't help you a bit if you have no or little knowledge and experience to apply your reason to. Not that I'm saying you don't have much knowledge, but at 18 years old, I'm afraid I feel that the life experience is a bit lacking.

I'd still like to know why you think the para-units are better than the Airborne regiment. Not that I disagree, quite frankly I don't know much about the issue, and don't really have an opinion one way or the other, but I would honestly like to hear your reasons, as I'm pretty sure you have some!


As for solidifying my arguements, I'll keep that in mind for the future ;)
How about applying it to your past arguments in this thread? :D

Finally, I must congratulate you on your considered and calm reply. Some here would have flown of the handle at my comments which were, I must admit, not stated in the most diplomatic of fashions!

[ArmedPacifist]

You have some good points so I'll respond to the ones requiring my response.

The first one that caught my attention was the age, which is not correct I was not 17, although I did start playing airsoft at the age of 17 (and I was in the reserves back then too) so you may have seen me at a game earlier, so 18 just to answer the question. How many DAYS of service had I have? No offense, but that's kind of a ridiculous question that I couldn't answser even if I wanted too (unless I went to payroll) By the way, the average age of the users here is 18-19, so there's nothing out of place about an under 20 reservist on these boards.

The point of the question about days of service is theres a big difference between a reservist who has served for one year, only doing weekends, and a reservist who has served one year including a summer of full time. They are both 1 year of service, but the full time guy has at least 40 or 50 more days of service, equivalent to an extra year of every second weekend I believe? Therefore one has about twice as much experience as the other.



My experptise? Well, I'm not an infantrymen, I'm in a support Battalion so I think that would put me in a better position to understand the shortcomings of our equipment more than an infantry battalion (as I end up having to fix it).

The only reason I made the basic arguement "You're wrong because you never served in the CF!" which I didn't say so in so many words but did imply, was basically that someone who has served one day in the CF would know more about it than someone who has served for 1 year in any other military around the world.

The only thing they would know more about is what it's like to spend 1 day in the CF. Hopefully the CF takes experiences and lessons learned from other militaries into consideration, and I hope you can too.

Yes, it's hard for someone who has never served to know what the condition of our equipment is, whether it needs servicing, upgrading, or replacing, etc., but their opinions on how big a military should be, what type of equipment Canada could use etc. may well be well thought out and useful. To dismiss their opinions out of hand just because they never served in the CF would be folly, IMO.



I only made some of those stateements, because Sixgun suggested Canada needed aircraft carriers and then said I was bringing the country down because I wasn't "thinking big", so the attack started.

What "attitude" have I shown other than the fact I got a ltitle upset because sixgun seems like a troll?


The attitude I get from you is that you are 100% certain that you have thought everything through to it's ultimate conclusion, and there is zero chance of your being wrong. You don't address others points, you just dismiss them as discussed above. I'd still like to know why you think the para-units are better than the Airborne regiment. Not that I disagree, quite frankly I don't know much about the issue, but I would honestly like to hear your reasons, as I'm pretty sure you have some!


As for solidifying my arguements, I'll keep that in mind for the future ;)
How about applying it to your past arguments in this thread? :D

Well, I have done my BMQ and SQ course, answer your question?

As for the para, that was a conclusion I came to after discussing it with a QOR member who was part of the airborne regiment. He basically said the unit was unnessecary because Canada would most likely never have to fight a front line conventional war and would not have the airlift capability independent of the United States to support such a regiment, where as if we have soldiers who CAN be para dropped but are regular infantry, it will serve for a more efficent basis until we get our airlift priorities in order.

The CF has different needs, which are different from say that of the US, so someones experience of being in a military in the US would be quite different from the CF and their ideas wouldn't work.

[Spleen]

Well, I have done my BMQ and SQ course, answer your question?


Nope. :P Having completed those two courses, you could have served well over 1000 days or not one day more than it took to complete those training courses. Seriously, it can't take long for a bright lad like you to figure out roughly how many days you have done. It's not like you've been in for years, right? Besides, as much as training is important for any soldier, I don't think it counts the same as experience serving. Training tells you very little about the real status of service equipment, supply shortages in the field, the effectiveness of systems, etc. the very subjects we're discussing here. I almost suspect you're avoiding the question, mostly because your answers remind me so much of Bush's responses to the AWOL questions, lol. "Were you AWOL?" "I got paid didn't I?" JK.


As for the para, that was a conclusion I came to after discussing it with a QOR member who was part of the airborne regiment. He basically said the unit was unnessecary because Canada would most likely never have to fight a front line conventional war and would not have the airlift capability independent of the United States to support such a regiment, where as if we have soldiers who CAN be para dropped but are regular infantry, it will serve for a more efficent basis until we get our airlift priorities in order.

Canada's current military strategy involves very heavy integration with US and other allied forces, as outlined in both current and future military doctrine papers, so the importance of having the ability to independantly airlift them is greatly reduced. I'm not saying that negates the argument, but it might be worth taking into consideration. Thanks for answering that!



The CF has different needs, which are different from say that of the US, so someones experience of being in a military in the US would be quite different from the CF and their ideas wouldn't work.

See, here you say "their ideas wouldn't work". Not might not, just "wouldn't". That's that attitude I was referring to before. ;) The CF and US Military are more alike than they are different, in the big picture, and I think we'd be fools not to take their ideas into consideration. If there are clearly definable and stated reasons WHY their ideas don't apply to us, at that point we can dismiss them, but to not even listen to them in the first place, or have our minds set on the idea that their ideas "Wouldn't" work before we even hear them is just closed-minded. Many experiences of US mil are very usfeful to us. They have a much larger sample size, and can gather much better statistics much faster, just for starters.

Let's take as a simple example the question of the 5.56mm rounds effectiveness. The experience of a US soldier firing this round in Afghanistan is virtually identical to a CDN soldier firing this round there, so why not listen to what they have to say, since they've put 10 or 100 times as many 5.56 mm rounds downrange as we have? If there's a valid reason why their experiences with the same round in the same setting with the same purpose don't apply to us, hey, cool, but if not, why ignore it? This may not be the perfect example, but I've had a long day and it's the best I can come up with! I think it at least illustrates the point I'm trying to make, even if the specifics are off a bit.

[A Soldier]

Canada doesn't need a military, if they spend money for one they are wasting money if they were ever attacked they know the US would take that as a attack on the US and intervene very quickly.

[Jack Mehoff]

Still need an Army in case those damn peskey French Canucks in Quebec going postal

[ArmedPacifist]

The 5.56 round is one of the few things we do have in common, in some situations their experience could help us, but generally we use different equipment and as such on the most part, we have different experiences with different things. For example, or current MBT is the Leopard, while the US' is the Abrams. Our capabilities are also different, and a US commander couldn't simply step into the seat of a Canadian commander and "take over", he would need to prepare himself. That was all I was getting at.

I joined the Reserves when I was 16 years old, I am now 18. How many days have I served?

Well I've done almost every thursday of my life, plus almost every second weekend. So including the half days of thursday and friday for 2 years.

[Tommy Gunn]

Canada doesn't need a military, if they spend money for one they are wasting money if they were ever attacked they know the US would take that as a attack on the US and intervene very quickly.

They barely have a military now. They have a very small military. Just enough to send a small token force out on NATO and UN missions so their politicans can have a say in the policy of these world bodies

[Tommy Gunn]

The 5.56 round is one of the few things we do have in common.

I just can't fathom why your leaders would drop the FN FAL (L1A1) rifle in favor of the M-16 and its puny 5.56mm round. The 7.62 nato round is far more capable than the 5.56mm.