Russian Anti-Tank Weapon

[gabbys]

I am a first time poster, so I don't know if this has been covered.

A year or so ago there was a discussion as to what took out the M1's in Iraq.

It was thought that a new Tandem-Head RPG was being used.

It was thought to be a PG-7VR or RPG-29.

On a Russian Armor site there is this image, looks like they are saying this is the one that took out the M1's

Can anyone ID this RPG?

WARNING - the From link has some images of burned up tankers

From: http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/Modern/Abrams/oops/

http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/Modern/Abrams/oops/max.jpg

[eucalyptus]

RPG-7 with PG-7VL grenade

[akd]

Yup, good old PG-7VL. Decent conventional penetration, cheap, easy to use, innaccurate and short-ranged. A barrage of these from suicidal fanatics at close range stands a chance of disabling an M1. The perfect martyr's weapon. One shot and then it's off to Allah.

[Flying Dutchman]

http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/Modern/Abrams/oops/abrams_28.jpg
what the .... ?

[StukaJr]

^^ Barrel obstruction

[gabbys]

^^ Barrel obstruction


Pretty sure that it is part of the procedure for an incapacitating m1 abrams in the field.

Since it can't be moved the barrel is blown.

[Hukatus]

i don't think this was the case on that picture, probably the barrel just blew away unintentionally.

[StukaJr]

This is how Abrams gets destroyed when it suffers a mobility kill in the enemy occupied territory:

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img/img006/coalition_hardware_losses_iraq/web_gal/hardware/gallery/images/abrams_013.jpg

Airstrike

Now for this picture:

http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/Modern/Abrams/oops/abrams_28.jpg

The M1A1's barrels are a dime a dozen - the most valueble technology is inside the tank if one does not count the armor composite. The crew's job to prevent capture of their vehicle since WWII would nesessitate to set off an explossion and internal fire inside the vehicle - the prolonged fuel fire and ammo cook off would render the armor brittle and unsalvagable. I'm not sure if that is the case with M1's armor - fire would certainly take care of all of the internal equipment. And finally, destroying/dismantling the breach of the main gun makes a lot more sense.

The M1A1 in the picture I believe to be Saudi Arabian - accident during training.

[Hukatus]

The M1A1 in the picture I believe to be Saudi Arabian - accident during training.i think you are right, it looks like arabic text just above LIFT HERE sign.

[NINJA]

Those pictures on the blackboard looks photoshopped... As if they were pasted onto the blackboard.

Anyone agree?

[StukaJr]

Those pictures on the blackboard looks photoshopped... As if they were pasted onto the blackboard.

Anyone agree?

x2 Ukranians have very little reason to train against US as possible OppFor - not with recent Ukranian deployment in Iraq alongside the US

[FozzieBear]

that tank with the barrel blown is an m1a2 just so you know...

[Iron Duke]

We had a gunner in our platoon do the exact same thing to that barrel on his tank...he accidentally left in the boresight devise when boresighting on Table 7 in Grafenwoir (sp?).

Once the gun is fired the barrel splits into that pedal look, needless to say he was quite embarassed and his pay was docked month by month till he paid for it.

[demotivater]

We had a gunner in our platoon do the exact same thing to that barrel on his tank...he accidentally left in the boresight devise when boresighting on Table 7 in Grafenwoir (sp?).

Once the gun is fired the barrel splits into that pedal look, needless to say he was quite embarassed and his pay was docked month by month till he paid for it.
Ouch, that had to suck

[Name Taken]

What are the figures of Destroyed M1's in Iraq?

[Iron Duke]

Ouch, that had to suck

Heh, Aye it did.

Our company commander shot up the bore evacuation devise with the .50cal during the troop\PC engagement on Table 5. He overcompensated for shooting over the PC target, depressed the gun a bit too much, and shot it up. :) I don't remember exactly what happened "in the fallout" but according the the rumor mill, the CO didn't get into any trouble because his gunner took most the blame or somefink...been over 14 years so it's a bit fuzzy.

[Durandal]

I think its also important to note that most of these photos are mobility kills with (as Stuka) mentioned, follow on air strikes to destroy the vehicle.

Hell, at least one of the photos is of an M1 in a ditch stuck (which would happen to ANY tank) and another, maybe 2, aren't even from the Gulf.

So, if the purpose of the photo forum was to show a bunch of destructive kills as a result of an RPG it would be false. If its just to simply show M1s screwed up either as a result of a crew FUBAR or a tank after it received light damage and needed to be destroyed without recovery, then yes, the photo site is accurate.

[Durandal]

What are the figures of Destroyed M1's in Iraq?

According to a USA Today article in March of 2005, there were 80 M1s destroyed (doe snot specify how) with at least 5 soldiers killed within them.

When you consider that the over 70% of the roughly 1100 M1s stationed there have been hit by enemy fire that is not bad odds...I suppose.

Like any tank, the M1 is not invincible. There are places you can punch a .50 through. The armor is designed to stop almost ANY attack from a 90 degree arc from center and that is about it. A 500lb IED is going to bugger any body's day up and a RPG is going to sometimes get through and most definitely ruin a track...

They have yet to make a tank where this will not happen.

[GazB]

I remember the article about the so called silver bullet. They were commenting that the signature of the penetration seemed different from what they normally got from Russian weapon types. Personally I think it was probably a western type weapon used. I remember clearly that the article stated that where the weapon hit even a standard RPG-7 crap average warhead would have penetrated and the only thing that made it interesting was the different signature of the penetration.

[Field_Gunner]

a m1 was taken out by an old 122mm he round burried in the road(dirt road of course) only the driver lived...even if the armour on the bottom of the tank didnt blow in the crew in the turret would have been killed be the overpressure from the explosion.

[Asheren]

Tandem warhead was suspected due this strange penetration signature.

[gabbys]

I think its also important to note that most of these photos are mobility kills with (as Stuka) mentioned, follow on air strikes to destroy the vehicle.

Hell, at least one of the photos is of an M1 in a ditch stuck (which would happen to ANY tank) and another, maybe 2, aren't even from the Gulf.

So, if the purpose of the photo forum was to show a bunch of destructive kills as a result of an RPG it would be false. If its just to simply show M1s screwed up either as a result of a crew FUBAR or a tank after it received light damage and needed to be destroyed without recovery, then yes, the photo site is accurate.

The Russian site with the multiple photos is just showing M1's taken out.

Not for any specific reason.

I agree with an earlier comment that the RPG-7VR image is photoshopped, but I think they are trying to suggest that the 7VR is the weapon with the unique signature.

That is why I posted it here, to see if there is any other ideas about what punched that hole in the M1.

[Asheren]

I read somewhere that "hole" was too small for any standard Russian RPG round. That was a reason to suspect tandem warhead.

[gabbys]

I read somewhere that "hole" was too small for any standard Russian RPG round. That was a reason to suspect tandem warhead.



Which is why I was asking what the image depicted.

I thought that the image is of a RPG-7V.

I assumed that the RPG-7VR is this.

http://www.defesanet.com.br/wars/ttuiraq/img7.gif


Here a website with some more information on the 7V and 7VR.

http://www.rusarm.ru/p_prod/army/rpg7v1.htm