The Tomahawk goes back to war

[Sixgun Symphony]

ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/tomahawk_030415.html)

http://a.abcnews.com/media/US/images/ho_specopsdesert_030325_nh.jpg
Members of a Special Operations team deployed near Iraq prior to the start of combat hold tomahawks their unit purchased. Their identities have been obscured at the request of Army officials. (www.americantomahawk.com)

[11F5S]

The tomahawk was a worthless piece of **** back in 1967...and is a worthless piece of **** today.

[Royal]

Like most 'fighting knives' and entrenching tools it looks about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

Want a knife - get a Leatherman.

Want to dig an OP/Shell scrape - take a proper shovel strapped to your bergan/vehicle.

[George W. Bush]

What's wrong with tomahawks? :lol:

[flickme]

It was a pretty deadly weapon back in the days of cowboys and indians but i dont see how it could be much better than a hatchet or other tool.

[Sixgun Symphony]

http://www.bladeseller.com/Cold%20Steel/images/90VT%20Vietnam%20Tomahawk.jpg

Just a closer look at the reproduction Vietnam Tomahawk by Cold Steel company

[Argyll]

What's wrong with tomahawks? :lol:

Nothing he's a great skateboarder!! ;)

[usa320]

I dont think its made for use as a weapon, more of a tool- for breaching and the likes.

[Argyll]

Whats wrong with a hooligan bar for breaching?

[Roger Rabbit]

how long would it take to knock down a door with a tomahawk?

[usa320]

My guess would be two jabs to the hinges...doors in Iraq are far more shoddy and old than the locked metal doors you find here.

Also i could see it being useful for smashing padlocks off of doors...

[maw]

those hawks aren't p'os from the aforementioned snakeoil company. they're from atc:
http://www.americantomahawk.com/index.htm

personally, if you want the schnizz, you want one of these:
http://www.rmjforge.com/eagle_talon.htm

i think we've had this discussion before. plenty of active guys pack a hawk.

royal, you remember that thread?
i was ranting away how in a jungle you need a large blade and in the woods you need a camp knife. but in an urban scenario, anything beyond a leatherman and a folder is probably as useful as **** on a bull. but it all depends on the mission. having said that, i'm not sure what kind of mission requires a hawk, but in a jungle conflict (like vietnam) there are concievable scenarios where positions get overrun and the fighting gets up close and personal. in those kinds of stuations,

imho, for all the extra weight, i think you'd be better off carrying some ceramic plates, a spare bolt, some extra ammo and maybe some more water.

[Sixgun Symphony]

I am thinking that the tomahawk would be more useful in cutting brush for clear fields of fire and to camoflauge a position.

[ShadowNeo]

aren't machetes more useful for that?

[maw]

aren't machetes more useful for that?

yup, faster, more reach and less likely to get stuck in things.

[Nizark]

has the smell of airsofters trying to be orginal

[Tommy Gunn]

I guess that it combines the uses of a machete, a breaching tool, and a CQB weapon.

[Roger Rabbit]

Surely the small area that is edged would make it useless when compared with a machette for cutting through foliage?

[Sixgun Symphony]

Surely the small area that is edged would make it useless when compared with a machette for cutting through foliage?

You have made an interesting point. Maybe someone can do some field testing and then do a comparative essay?

[cut]

Surely the small area that is edged would make it useless when compared with a machette for cutting through foliage?

You have made an interesting point. Maybe someone can do some field testing and then do a comparative essay?

in terms of cutting through machettes are better, that's what made for, besides I havn't seen much foliage in Iraq. It's just a patriotic trinket a lucky charm, whatever. If they can find things to use it for that's great. Can we just leave it at that?

[Trident-za]

besides I havn't seen much foliage in Iraq

I was wondering when someone would bring that small point up :lol:

[Royal]

besides I havn't seen much foliage in Iraq.

Taken a look at the film of the British AO recently? ;)

[cut]

How I wish I knew what all you abv. meant.

[Royal]

AO - Area of Operations
TAOR - Tactical Area Of Responsibility
AOR - Area of Responsibility

[cut]

I'm not that bad... but thanks :)

[11F5S]

My guess would be two jabs to the hinges...doors in Iraq are far more shoddy and old than the locked metal doors you find here.
...

How many doors have you tried to breached with a tomahawk?


also i could see it being useful for smashing padlocks off of doors...

That's a job for bolt cutters, sledge hammer, or C4... not a tomahawk.

I have an original SF tomahawk in an old footlocker in the garage...I never found it to be my tool of choice for doing anything.

[Argyll]

My guess would be two jabs to the hinges...doors in Iraq are far more shoddy and old than the locked metal doors you find here.
...

How many doors have you tried to breached with a tomahawk?


also i could see it being useful for smashing padlocks off of doors...

That's a job for bolt cutters, sledge hammer, or C4... not a tomahawk.

I have an original SF tomahawk in an old footlocker in the garage...I never found it to be my tool of choice for doing anything.

Good for opening cans of Bud ?

[Haiw]

Not if you still want to drink the beer I'd say ;)

[bison]

they are really easy to throw, and looke badass.

[Truthsayer]

My guess would be two jabs to the hinges...doors in Iraq are far more shoddy and old than the locked metal doors you find here.
...

How many doors have you tried to breached with a tomahawk?


also i could see it being useful for smashing padlocks off of doors...

That's a job for bolt cutters, sledge hammer, or C4... not a tomahawk.

I have an original SF tomahawk in an old footlocker in the garage...I never found it to be my tool of choice for doing anything.

Didn't you know that usa320 has an opinion on everything and knows everything? =)

As for using an tomahawk: either they found some use for it we don't know about or the unit use it as some kind of gimick.

[11F5S]

As for using an tomahawk: either they found some use for it we don't know about or the unit use it as some kind of gimick.

It's a waste of funds...El' Crapito just as it was in in the 60's.

[11F5S]

they are really easy to throw, and looke badass.

Bull**** is easy to throw and some seem to think it makes them sound badass :lol:

Hand grenades are easy to throw, and they are badass. :)

[He219]

besides I havn't seen much foliage in Iraq

I was wondering when someone would bring that small point up :lol:

The population density of Iraq is concentrated about the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. The Southeastern part of the country bordering Iran is known to be marshland. They do have lots of reeds and foilage. Just think back at the pic's of the helos downed recently. Do you recall barren desert? I think not. The Area of Operations within the Sunni Triangle certainly has lots of shrubbery.

The Tomahawk is an extremely effective QCB weapon and exeptionally effective when thrown. Show it some respect when wielded in the hands of someone trained to use it, especially while boasting about the effectiveness of the Sirupati Gurkha Kurki.

[Haiw]

Yeah but it's not exactely like half the time in basic training is spent on Tomahawk training now is it? ;)

[James]

Yeah but it's not exactely like half the time in basic training is spent on Tomahawk training now is it? ;)

Well, when 11F5S went to basic training back in the 18th c. I imagine that he learned a bit about using tomahawks, along with proper use and maintenance of a musket or PA rifle. :D

11F5S,

Weren't you a founding member of Roger's Rangers? :P

[Russian Texan]

Using tomahawk
http://desantura.ru/4images/data/media/2/06.jpg

[Tommy Gunn]

A tomahawk was made obsolete by the large Bowie knives of the early 19th century. The Bowie knives were made obsolete by the Colt revolvers in the mid 19th century.

[A Soldier]

I think tomahawks are neat if your a Commanche. :lol:

[wholagun]

Using tomahawk
http://desantura.ru/4images/data/media/2/06.jpg


JEBUS, WTF is that!!!! Thats nuts but it looks so cool. Where the hell in a bloody battle is he even gonna go that, unless your Micheal Jordan or got an acne rocket up your arsae you ain't getting verticle like that, unless there is something I don't know about Russian soldiers.

[mocking_loudly_died]

There’s a massive amount of idiocy celebrated by the Russian forces.

At least they are good for a laugh.

[Andy Prisco]

I was reviewing our site statistics and saw that some folks came to visit our site from the links to it, posted earlier in this thread.

After reading it, let me share a few thoughts that may clarify the Tomahawk's utility to the Soldier.

It almost goes without saying that the Tomahawk as a weapon and tool, arguably helped settle our country during the expansion. While the trusty sidekick of every Frontiersman, it also became one of the most commonly traded items between Native Americans and the Pioneers, the latter bringing steel to the hickory instead of stone...which most Native Americans were still using back-in-the-day. Why? Because it was valuable to anyone who had one...valuable in its utility, its versatility, and its capability.

Fast-forward to today, the Army is purchasing our original Vietnam Tactical Tomahawk (VTAC) for inclusion to the "Modular Entry Tool Set". The set includes a sledge, bolt cutters, Hooligan, and our VTAC. This wasn't because they just thought the item was cool and they had money to burn. It was an uphill fight to get the item even considered...for almost three years. But it was added to the kit because in and of itself, it can do the work of all the tools in the kit when the task provides for it...in an item that's nearly 1 lb. I'm not suggesting that the VTAC replaces the Hooligan...but in the third world, how many Hooligans are used? That was the Army's aim by the "modular"-ness of the tool set.

The VTAC is manufacutured to never fail the Soldier, period. The spike tomahawk head design of Peter LaGana extends far beyond the utility of a simple hammer poll hatchet. It's small, light, and fast. It's five sharp cutting edges allow it to cut, chop, rip, rake, rent, penetrate, and devastate...the Stryker boys have begun calling it the "anti-Leatherman", because it takes stuff apart instead of putting it together.

The synthetic handle is precision mated to the head so well, we like to say that whatever it took to loosen or break it probably killed you first.

AARs we have on file include its tremendous usefulness in non-explosive breeching, brake-and-rake, extraction, egress, CQB, clearing shooting lanes, clearing cable, removing obstacles, venting fuel drums, opening crates, building shelters...the list goes on. It was tested at Aberdeen, NTC, and JRTC at length.

It's not for everybody...but for those who don't want or need to hump the breaching kit, it performs an incredible array of tasks and each of them, well.

It does throw incredibly well too...but more importantly, because anything can be thrown, it endures the rigors of throwing that nearly every knife and hatchet hasn't over the years. Our VTAC endured literally thousands of throws (mostly bad ones ;) ) at Best Ranger 2002 in front of cameras and spectators...and not one failed.

I could go on for hours, because I love talking about Tomahawks...but I just wanted to add a few thoughts that might explain why many of our Soldiers today consider it to be such a valuable tool.

Thanks,

[Quon Sen Hutt]

I gotta buy one of these weapons. :)

[Ma Rung]

I was reviewing our site statistics and saw that some folks came to visit our site from the links to it, posted earlier in this thread.

After reading it, let me share a few thoughts that may clarify the Tomahawk's utility to the Soldier.

It almost goes without saying that the Tomahawk as a weapon and tool, arguably helped settle our country during the expansion. While the trusty sidekick of every Frontiersman, it also became one of the most commonly traded items between Native Americans and the Pioneers, the latter bringing steel to the hickory instead of stone...which most Native Americans were still using back-in-the-day. Why? Because it was valuable to anyone who had one...valuable in its utility, its versatility, and its capability.

Fast-forward to today, the Army is purchasing our original Vietnam Tactical Tomahawk (VTAC) for inclusion to the "Modular Entry Tool Set". The set includes a sledge, bolt cutters, Hooligan, and our VTAC. This wasn't because they just thought the item was cool and they had money to burn. It was an uphill fight to get the item even considered...for almost three years. But it was added to the kit because in and of itself, it can do the work of all the tools in the kit when the task provides for it...in an item that's nearly 1 lb. I'm not suggesting that the VTAC replaces the Hooligan...but in the third world, how many Hooligans are used? That was the Army's aim by the "modular"-ness of the tool set.

The VTAC is manufacutured to never fail the Soldier, period. The spike tomahawk head design of Peter LaGana extends far beyond the utility of a simple hammer poll hatchet. It's small, light, and fast. It's five sharp cutting edges allow it to cut, chop, rip, rake, rent, penetrate, and devastate...the Stryker boys have begun calling it the "anti-Leatherman", because it takes stuff apart instead of putting it together.

The synthetic handle is precision mated to the head so well, we like to say that whatever it took to loosen or break it probably killed you first.

AARs we have on file include its tremendous usefulness in non-explosive breeching, brake-and-rake, extraction, egress, CQB, clearing shooting lanes, clearing cable, removing obstacles, venting fuel drums, opening crates, building shelters...the list goes on. It was tested at Aberdeen, NTC, and JRTC at length.

It's not for everybody...but for those who don't want or need to hump the breaching kit, it performs an incredible array of tasks and each of them, well.

It does throw incredibly well too...but more importantly, because anything can be thrown, it endures the rigors of throwing that nearly every knife and hatchet hasn't over the years. Our VTAC endured literally thousands of throws (mostly bad ones ;) ) at Best Ranger 2002 in front of cameras and spectators...and not one failed.

I could go on for hours, because I love talking about Tomahawks...but I just wanted to add a few thoughts that might explain why many of our Soldiers today consider it to be such a valuable tool.

Thanks,

I guess that the above post is the most well informed and knowledgeable one of this thread. As for myself....i am a non military person....never was, never will be (unless things get really out of hand)...but i have been using the Cold Steel Vietnam tomahawk for more than 15 years and have used it during (extended) survival hikes here (that is Holland) and in other countries to great effect. It came to my attention (late 80's) in book about Special Forces in which it was stated that it was used in combat in Vietnam. A few years later Cold Steel put their version on the market and i purchased one.....and the rest is history..;-)....as the saying goes. Since that time i have become interested in the tomahawk as a cultural object of great practial and spiritual meaning.....not forgetting its use as a (combat)tool with a long and interesting history. Although i have no CQB experience...i can easily imagine.....having had some martial arts training....that it can be used to devastating effect against opponents. While doing some research i found out that there's a whole bunch of people who are also interested in the historical and military aspects of the tomahawk. Thanks for reading and feel free to respond. Take care, be well

E

[PeterG]

Survival hikes - in Holland?

[Mastermind]

An excellent close-in weapon...one I have studied to some extent, both historically and in practical self defense classes (in my younger years).

In the hands of a reasonably trained individual, this is possibly one of the most deadly and effective personal fighting weapons. One blow and the opponent is critically injured if not outright killed instantly...where as knives, due to their light weight, have some pretty serious penetration problem, requiring much higher skill in accurate hits to softer body areas...and even with a successful knife hit, the opponent is very likely to continue fighting for some time before bleeding out. Tomahawks have excellent bone penetration...and the sheer blunt force trauma to softer tissue is incredible...it has been estimated a strong strike with a 16 oz hatchet can have the same ft- lbs of force as a heavy pistol shot.

In addition to the power using the tomahawk as a hand held weapon, it can be thrown with great accuracy and hit with stunning force. I was trained in both hatchet and knife throwing by an ex-WWII Marine...and in less than an hour of training, I could hit a man-sized (torso area target) at ten paces in less than one hour's practice...after a few weeks of training...approx 8 hrs formal training... I was very accurate and hitting with such force I could actually split the target planks. It is silent, effective, anyone can be trained in short time to use it with accurate, deadly force and it makes an excellent field tool.

There is a reason this weapon lasted through history and I am quite glad to see it being revived...glad so long as the users are on my side.... :-) of course.

[dracon49]

A much one missile cost? 1 million?

[Mastermind]

Well, if you were to gold plate them and set diamond studded handles...I suppose...make the head out of pure platinum.

You could get a heavier tomahawk to cost a million...but, it's going to shine a bit in the dark.

[James]

Thoughts of this thread have been weighing heavily on me for almost 6 years. I'm glad it's back.