M60 vs. M240

[Brabo]

Why is the M60 in the army replaced for a M240.
And why isn't the m60 replaced that is in use by the Navy Seals.

Thanks

[Doomsayer]

as far as I know the MAG is more reliable...

maybe its lighter (not sure of this one .. but I am to lazy to check)

[akd]

To put it in the most simple terms possible: M-240 is heavy and M-60 is not, and saving weight almost always means sacrificing something in return. The SEALs still use the M-60 because of its light weight, but want to replace it with the Mk. 48 SAW or something like it.

[Hydro]

MAG is more reliable than the M60, and has a quicker barrel change. It's heavier though. The SEALS use M60E4, it's lighter and more suited to "assault" roles - it's also been tweaked to make it more reliable than the original. It's not too well suited for sustained fire missions though. The MAG, while not perfect for the role, can handle sustained fire a lot more than the M60E4.

[McNasty]

Ripped off of Wikipedia.

Early history: Testing & Adoption

The adoption of the M240, has its origins in the late 60s/early 1970s and a project to procure a new vehicle mounted co-axial 7.62 mm machine gun (as well as replace the M85 .5 caliber mg (not .5 BMG)). It would go on to be deployed in this role in the 1980s, but spawn its adoption for the infantry and other mountings as well. It would be deployed in this, and some other roles into the 1990s and 2000s.

As mentioned, during the 1970s the Army was looking for new 7.62mm machine guns for vehicle/AFV mounts. The 1950s era M73 had been rather troubled, and the M73E1/M219 it was developed into was not much of a improvement. A number of designs of period from various countries were considered, but it was narrowed down to the M60E2 and the MAG. They underwent a large testing (the older M219 included as well).

Two main criteria analyzed were "Mean Rounds Between Stoppages" (MRBS) (jams that can be cleared within minutes) and "Mean Rounds Between Failures" (MRBF) (such as a part breaking). The results for these versions of the machine guns:


Type Rounds Fired MRBS MRBF
FN MAG 58 50,000 2,962 6,442
M60E2 50,000 846 1,669
M219 19,000 215 1,090
Minimum specified 850 2,675
Minumun desired 1,750 5,500

[mateona06]

According to Dick Couch in his "Warrior Elitie" "Finishing School" series of books, the M60, as opposed to the M240G is very resilient to salt water environments. That's why not just the SEALs, but the Navy in general still uses the M60. I've seen pics on this site of RHIBs still using M60's on the bow. And yes, weight is also an issue...

[Brabo]

Great info

[HoboWithAK]

To put it in the most simple terms possible: M-240 is heavy and M-60 is not, and saving weight almost always means sacrificing something in return. The SEALs still use the M-60 because of its light weight, but want to replace it with the Mk. 48 SAW or something like it.

Really? Are you a Navy SEAL?

[LoTek]

Hi,

Here is a link to the FN product the Navy is testing and procuring in the near future: http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/mg_mk46.htm

Thank you,

Robert

[Michael RVR]

Really? Are you a Navy SEAL?

He's probably not, but he's right according to everything i've read. ;)

[akd]

No, I am a highly trained Navy SEAL. I underwent months of grueling selection to determine my ability to distinguish between heavy and light. I am hard as steel now and can estimate the weight of squirrel at over 500 yards. :roll:

But the salt water bit is relevant also, but not particularly so in Afghanistan or Iraq.

[SMGLee]

The M240 is much more reliable then the M60, and it is a lot easily to disassemble and reassemble.

The M60s in the Navy WARCOM inventory is wearing out, that is why the MK48 is coiming on line fast....

[usafbalad]

Well the m-60 is still going to be around for a very long time at least on the aviation side of the house because they are used by the door gunners. I guess they could change the guns over to the m240 but I havent heard anything like that as of yet for the chopper guys.

[akd]

Well the m-60 is still going to be around for a very long time at least on the aviation side of the house because they are used by the door gunners. I guess they could change the guns over to the m240 but I havent heard anything like that as of yet for the chopper guys.

They are changing to the M-240. New version is being tested now.

[ABNINF]

The Army is already using the M240. It's called the M240D. The only Army units still using the M60's are National Guard units, and they are being phased out very quickly.

[Hukatus]

The M60 medium/universal machine gun was designed in the late 1940's and its initial design strongly borrows from WW2 German developments - the MG42 belt feeding mechanism and the FG42 gas-driven action.
M60 was barely adequate to its intended mission, and has some drawbacks: the bipods and the gas chamber were permanently attached to the barrel, so qiuick replacement of the hot barrel in the battle conditions was 'tricky' at least, and required the shooter to war heat-protecting gloves.
Another drawback (at least, it is known from my sources) was fragility of many of the parts in the operating group. Key among these, and inherent in the design, was the firing pin, which seemed almost guaranteed to break right behind the forward shoulder. The total acceptance troops of the M60 was not too god.
But it turned even worse when new, lightened variant of the M60, called M60E3, was introduced.
The new, light barrel was capable of no more than 100 rounds in rapid fire. 200-300 rounds of the rapid fire without replacing the barrel could simply destroy the barrel. The reliability of the M60E3, used by US MC, was even worse than of original M60

1010100101000101

[stupify]

M240 fires faster than the M60. It's more reliable, and has a greater effective range. Yes they weigh more, but after being on patrol all day heavy is heavy, M240 or M60. The general navy still employs M14's for service rifles. They don't really place a priority on having the latest and greatest when it comes to small arms. The SEAL's, I can't and won't speak on their behalf. I'd find and ask an active SEAL Team member why they use what they use (good luck).