UK and France join forces on combat units

[He219]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20040210/capt.sge.ium70.100204063633.photo00.default-384x238.jpg
French paratroopers deploy during an exercise. Britain and France are to create joint rapid deployment military units to be used in jungle, desert and mountain operations(AFP/File/Damien Mayer)


UK and France join forces on combat units
(http://search.ft.com/search/article.html?id=040209007624&query=french+rapid&vsc_appId=totalSearch&state=Form)By Judy Dempsey in Brussels and James Blitz in London
FT.com site; Feb 09, 2004

Britain and France are to take a bold step towards closer defence co-operation, joining forces to create a string of highly trained, rapid-deployment units for combat in jungle, desert and mountain operations.

As the leaders of France, Germany and Britain prepare to meet next week in a three-way summit that could deepen their mutual co-operation, London and Paris have drawn up detailed plans covering the deployment of Anglo-French battlegroups.

The ambitious plan, to be unveiled this week, is part of a strategy by France and Britain to beef up Europe's defence and for the European Union to take on more responsibility in promoting world stability by preventing atrocities and separating warring parties.

At next week's trilateral summit in Berlin, Jacques Chirac, French president, Gerhard Schröder, German chancellor, and Tony Blair, UK prime minister, also want to explore ways of boosting co-operation on economic reform and asylum and immigration policy.

The EU originally wanted to create a rapid-reaction force of 60,000, but this has been scaled back because military capabilities would not stretch to the soldiers and equipment needed. Nato is also re-assessing the make-up of its 21,000-strong Nato Response Force.

The latest Anglo-French initiative, which will be presented this week to the European Union's political and security ambassadors, sets out a detailed agenda and timetable describing how and where the new units will conduct missions, and at what level they will be trained. London and Paris want the units to work closely - but not exclusively - with the United Nations. Depending on the mission, they may have access to Nato resources.

Diplomats on Monday insisted the Anglo-French plan would not compete with Nato, but could contribute to the alliance's Response Force. The battlegroups will consist of 1,500 troops, be capable of being deployed within 15 days and operate under a UN mandate. The missions will last up to 30 days and will be "appropriate for, but not limited to, use in failed or failing states, (of which most are in Africa)".

The initiative is open to other EU states. But countries wishing to join "must show a high degree of interoperability" which means training and ope rating together.

London and Paris also insist the "overriding" criterion for joining "is ultimately military effectiveness". The UK and France want the plan accepted by all member states by June 30 and troops available by 2007.

[mack pl]

In UE rapid forces :| What with NATO Response Force ????

[Sergei]

In UE rapid forces :| What with NATO Response Force ????

Hey, NATO is for the Poles and other eastern europeans to shed their blood for the corporations.

P.S. Not meant as a flame, but that is one of the reasons, the veterans organization I am a member of here in Ukraine stands against the desire of ukrainian government to enter NATO. Don't want to see our kids die in some far away freaking war for some rich fat guy in a armchair.

[mack pl]

I have some questions to you, Sergei-1) are you Russian? 2)do you live in Ukraina?(or in Moscow) 3) wich war you are veteran(WWII,Afghanistan)? 4)are you communist party member? BTW for Poland jointed to NATO was very good , because we get new big allies. We are democratic independed state, not like when we joint to Warsaw Pact. So, i guess NATO was good choice for us. I think we dont fight for any fat rich people, like you think. We fight in last years only in Iraq, but it wasnt NATO operation. BTW my family is from Ukraine(Lviv, and they arent Poles, but Ukrainian).So, i love Ukraine. Im Polish, but i think for Ukraine it will be good to joint Nato too, like we do.Why i think that? Hmmm,Ukraine cannot be some part of russian imperium still. They cannot afraid what big Russian bear said. Ukraine, are involved in military operation now.In Kosovo and Iraq they are under polish command.In Kosovo its NATO command too, in Iraq it will be NATO command in second half of this year. I think Sergei, you dont look on the future.If you are some veteran , you must be old(maybe not 70, but i guess you are 50 or something). You talking like marxist, about this fat rich people . When soviet union fight in Afghanistan, young Ukrainians fight too. They die for who. F***n Brezniew, Czernienko, or someone like them(im not sure who was your first secretary) . I think Ukraine shouldnt affraid about theirs boys. If Ukraine dont want to send them on war, nobody will angry at you. Your boys are in Iraq(few of them die, here), but they make some excellent job here.They are building new democratic state.I hope Ukraine will be strong state .Ukraine must go in own way to future. I think for Ukraine , future in NATO willbe not bad.Maybe in future Ukraine will join to EU too, i hope that.Ukraine must be a strong state,and must choice-eastern allies(Russia,and other former soviet republic) or west-NATO and UE. Ukraine must choice WEST, or it will be situation like in Belaruss(F***n Lukaszenko) soon.Its the only way for Ukraine. Of course if they dont joint they will be independend and strong still, but only if Russia dont made from Ukraine second Belarussia.So, i like NATO, and Ukraine, and i hope Ukraine joint to NATO. It will be good choice.If you dont agree with me , you must be MURZIK(no offence)(im not sure is that correct, i have no cyrylica in my keybord).

[He219]

Hey, NATO is for the Poles and other eastern europeans to shed their blood for the corporations.
You may favor Isolationism, but FYI:

The United States is providing (http://www.usaid.gov/pubs/cbj2003/ee/ua/) USD 155 million to Ukraine this year through the US Agency for International Development.

Former President Clinton boosted US aid to Ukraine from $300 million to $700 million under Ukrainian President Leonid Kravchuk. The increase in aid reflected heightened interest by the Clinton administration in Ukraine, the second largest republic of the former Soviet Union and, with more than 1,600 nuclear warheads on its territory, the owner of the world's third most powerful atomic arsenal. [Economic aid: $350 million economic aid and $350 million to help disassemble the atomic weapons from the US in 1994 ]

25 September 2002 - U.S. Suspends Some Aid to Ukraine Over Kolchuga Sale to Iraq (http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/nea/iraq/text/0925usukr.htm)

"We've recently concluded an analysis of a July 2000 recording that was provided by the former Ukrainian presidential bodyguard, Mykola Melnychenko. On one of the tapes, Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma is heard approving the clandestine sale of 'Kolchuga' early warning systems to Iraq, and we believe this recording to be authentic," Boucher said.

"Our ongoing policy review reflects our serious concern that illicit transfers to Iraq were approved by President Kuchma, as well as our determination to discourage further transfers by Ukraine or by any other country that violates UN sanctions on Iraq," he continued.

USAID Regional Mission in Ukraine (http://www.usaid.kiev.ua/)



Don't want to see our kids die in some far away freaking war for some rich fat guy in a armchair.

http://www.nato.int/sfor/nations/various/ukraine/ukrainian.jpg

Force Structure Review (FSR) Project (http://www.nato.int/structur/nmlo/events/force-structure-review.htm)

In March 2002, Ukraine requested assistance in conducting a defence review. That request initiated a co-operation project. The International Military Staff with Ukraine emitted recommendations on how military co-operation could develop the Ukrainian Armed Forces' capacity to support the conduct of a force structure review. The aim is to support the implementation of the National Defence Reform Objective (National Goal 0001) that is "Review of Defence Reform Plans and/or Forces Structures". The FSR Project is in synchronization with the International Staff Defence Policy and Planning Directorate (IS/DPP).

NATO-Ukraine Commission Statement - 26 November 2003 (http://www.nato.int/docu/pr/2003/p031126b-e.htm)


but that is one of the reasons, the veterans organization I am a member of here in Ukraine stands against the desire of ukrainian government to enter NATO
:roll:

[mack pl]

Isolationism is good word.But Sergei is veteran, so he like uncle Joseph(Stalin) i guess.

[Sergei]

3) wich war you are veteran(WWII,Afghanistan)?

Are you serious about WWII? :cantbeli: I can't be that old.

Pridnestrovie, ever heard of such hot spot?

[mack pl]

Yeah, you cannot be so old. In polish its-Naddniestrze. Its in Moldova. But i dont know still, are you russian or ukrainian.If you are russian, you have been soldier in this former soviet republic, yeah?

[Sergei]

Hey, NATO is for the Poles and other eastern europeans to shed their blood for the corporations.
You may favor Isolationism, but FYI:

The United States is providing (http://www.usaid.gov/pubs/cbj2003/ee/ua/) USD 155 million to Ukraine this year through the US Agency for International Development.
Which was all conveniently stolen by Kuchma and his ilk. Way to spend taxpayers money! :D



Former President Clinton boosted US aid to Ukraine from $300 million to $700 million under Ukrainian President Leonid Kravchuk. The increase in aid reflected heightened interest by the Clinton administration in Ukraine, the second largest republic of the former Soviet Union and, with more than 1,600 nuclear warheads on its territory, the owner of the world's third most powerful atomic arsenal. [Economic aid: $350 million economic aid and $350 million to help disassemble the atomic weapons from the US in 1994 ]
I think USA got more out of this deal because Ukraine in 1992 used to be a third largest nuclear nation. Well it appears that Ukraine can be bought pretty cheap, just 700 million bucks to throw to corrupt politicians. Moreover, there is now talk around that some nukes have been shipped to Al-Qaeda from Ukraine. Bloody convenient way to blackmail a former nuclear power, isn't it?



25 September 2002 - U.S. Suspends Some Aid to Ukraine Over Kolchuga Sale to Iraq (http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/nea/iraq/text/0925usukr.htm)

"We've recently concluded an analysis of a July 2000 recording that was provided by the former Ukrainian presidential bodyguard, Mykola Melnychenko. On one of the tapes, Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma is heard approving the clandestine sale of 'Kolchuga' early warning systems to Iraq, and we believe this recording to be authentic," Boucher said.
So where is this Kolchuga? Another hoax like Iraqi WMD? Bush administration never seizes to amaze me.



"Our ongoing policy review reflects our serious concern that illicit transfers to Iraq were approved by President Kuchma, as well as our determination to discourage further transfers by Ukraine or by any other country that violates UN sanctions on Iraq," he continued.

USAID Regional Mission in Ukraine (http://www.usaid.kiev.ua/)

And that is called "interference into one's internal policy", since no proof has ever been found whatsoever. Note, I don't defend Kuchma, he is a son of a bitch, just not the US bitch, not yet at least.



Don't want to see our kids die in some far away freaking war for some rich fat guy in a armchair.


http://www.nato.int/sfor/nations/various/ukraine/ukrainian.jpg

Poor guy, I feel sorry for him. He is a mercenary in a foreign country which is under invasion not approved by international community. But what options did he have? Be dirty poor and do drugs or alcohol in Ukraine or earn some bucks by shooting a few Iraqis? I don't respect his decision to go to Iraq but i can understand his motives to go there.

[mack pl]

****, Sergei,poor mercenary???????So, who you are in Moldova?????Freedom fighter???????

[Sergei]

Yeah, you cannot be so old. In polish its-Naddniestrze. Its in Moldova. But i dont know still, are you russian or ukrainian.If you are russian, you have been soldier in this former soviet republic, yeah?

I am a Ukraine born citizen with russian and greek ancestry to be exact. Although at the time I was born I was a citizen of soviet union such thing as russian or ukrainian nationality didn't really matter. Yes, I was a soldier back then of soviet armed forces when the soviet union collapsed and some units on the territory of Ukraine had to be sworn to new Ukraine coat of arms. The officers were in bewilderment as to which army to join since the units had men from all over soviet union and there was no possibility for say kazakh soldier to swear allegiance to ukrainian banner. There were many russians who went back to join russian units in Russia proper. So some units lost 50-60% of their strength and were disbanded. That's when I understood that the was no more the army I had the honor to serve in and my "dembel" was approaching anyways, some 2 months away. There was a situation, when experienced soldiers were quitting left and right and so did I.
Pridnestrovie started and so I volunteered to help pridnestrovie citizens to fend off romanian nationalist fanatics.
I hope I explained to you everything you wanted.

regards,

[mack pl]

Yeah, you explain me everything. but ours point of view on Ukraine will be always different i guess. I want see Ukraine in west group of countrys(NATO,UE), you dont.But i dont care.I hope future of Ukraine will be very good :D BTW in Pridnestrovie, i guess fight some UNO/UNSO members, you know something about it??

[Sergei]

Yeah, you explain me everything. but ours point of view on Ukraine will be always different i guess. I want see Ukraine in west group of countrys(NATO,UE), you dont.But i dont care.I hope future of Ukraine will be very good :D BTW in Pridnestrovie, i guess fight some UNO/UNSO members, you know something about it??

I know quite a few of them, the most famous is Dmytro Korchynsky who is right now a TV star on a political talk show.
I actually don't understand the philosophy of these guys since they stick their nose everywhere there is a possibility for them to show their fists. Like First Chechen war for example where they fought for chechens and thus gave Ukraine a bad name among the Russians.

regards,

[mack pl]

I know they fight in Chechen,first war.One ukrainian nickname Consul(i dont remember exactly) get all russian platoon POW.I mean, he said them he is major, and he give them orderers to go with them. About they philosophy, are they some nationalist i guess?? But not a skinheads,hahaha. Regards.

[cut]

No-one will be able to insult french soldiers anymore :D

[mack pl]

cut, only French Foreign Legion is cool(many Poles) :D

[cut]

cut, only French Foreign Legion is cool(many Poles) :D
Yup and some brits too, but all the action they seem to get now is take pictures and riot control stuff.


But that is about to change, acording to this, we'll make fine soldiers out of the french.

[He219]

... acording to this, we'll make fine soldiers out of the french.


:lol:

[cut]

p-)

[mack pl]

Foreign legion is very good, but if French dont sent troops to any war, what they could do. They are in Bosnia or in Kosovo. unfortunently we cannot see them in action in Iraq, last year. I guess they could kick some ass, like Poles, Aussies, Brits, and US did. Regards ;)

[fantassin]

French dont sent troops to any war, what they could do.

Since 1969 and probably forgetting a few (not in chronological order):

Chad*
Lybia*
Mauritania*
Lebanon*
Zaire*
Central African Republic*
Ivory Coast*
Benin*
Comoroes
Congo*
Kosovo*
Bosnia* (UNPROFOR, IFOR, SFOR)
Macedonia
Gulf War 1*
Cambodia
Somalia*
Rwanda*
Liberia
Erytrea
Afghanistan*
East Timor*

* means involvement of combat air power

Yes, France never goes to any war...

Some Poles are so happy to finally get to play with big brother they are now convinced they are the baddest MF on the block; I have nothing against Poles but they should not get cocky because they suddendly get to go overseas a bit.

The British and French armies have been operating jointly on many of those campaigns so it's a good thing they are getting closer.

[tony6]

yeah-they (I mean French) sure do have quite an experience.

[RuSoKaR]

Ukraine and Russia is like West and East Germany, And if not Russian empire, then Ukraine would not even exist because polish would take over it.

[martinexsquaddie]

ran into a couple of scouse legionarres joined because they were wanted in liverpool for car crime :lol:
most police would reckon 6 years in the forign legion or a few month in jail I'd know which one I'd choose and it would'nt involve the kepi blanc :roll:

[Uninen]

You may favor Isolationism, but FYI:

The United States is providing (http://www.usaid.gov/pubs/cbj2003/ee/ua/) USD 155 million to Ukraine this year through the US Agency for International Development.

Wonder why? Their government sells all the state of the art Russian weapons they can get their hands to US for eval.. :fork:

Btw,

Their President actually 'offs' people, unlike Putin.. rofl

[perdurabo]

Ukraine and Russia is like West and East Germany, And if not Russian empire, then Ukraine would not even exist because polish would take over it.
ekhm?!? read some books about history ok?

[mack pl]

Fantassin, i was talking only about last year,ok. No about your all history-Asterix, obelix, Idefix etc. agains Ceasar etc. ;)

[Kaos]

Fantassin, i was talking only about last year,ok. No about your all history-Asterix, obelix, Idefix etc. agains Ceasar etc. ;)
It was not very clear in your post.

[mack pl]

You have right, my mistake :(

[Miles Teg]

Fantassin, i was talking only about last year,ok. No about your all history-Asterix, obelix, Idefix etc. agains Ceasar etc.

Operation Artemis and Licorne.

[RuSoKaR]

Ukraine and Russia is like West and East Germany, And if not Russian empire, then Ukraine would not even exist because polish would take over it.
ekhm?!? read some books about history ok?

It's just depends on what ype of books, but sorry I can't read polish :roll:

Btw didn't Ukranians rioted against Polish rule about 350 years ago?

[Rantanplan]

Ukraine and Russia is like West and East Germany, And if not Russian empire, then Ukraine would not even exist because polish would take over it.
ekhm?!? read some books about history ok?

It's just depends on what ype of books, but sorry I can't read polish :roll:

Btw didn't Ukranians rioted against Polish rule about 350 years ago?

Yeah, and the Russian Empire take over it :cantbeli:

[RuSoKaR]

:cantbeli: The leader of the Ukranian rebellion against polish rule, asked Russian Tzar to help them with the fight against Polish Rule, and then Ukranian Corssaks, became loyal to the Russian Tzar.

[DPGLAW]

So I assume that the french will be the cooks and human shields for the real soldiers, the British....or the French could just do what they do best, complain until the enemy gives up....Sorry if you guys don't think it's that funny but I can't pass up the chance to insult those French pussies

[haze99]

:| If the Warsaw Pact was disbanded in June 1991, why is there still NATO? And why add more countries to an organization that was established to counter a threat (WP) that no longer exists? Hhmmm.

[kinghk]

:| If the Warsaw Pact was disbanded in June 1991, why is there still NATO? And why add more countries to an organization that was established to counter a threat (WP) that no longer exists? Hhmmm.

WP wasnt established until 1955, NATO in 1949.

[kinghk]

So I assume that the french will be the cooks and human shields for the real soldiers, the British....or the French could just do what they do best, complain until the enemy gives up....Sorry if you guys don't think it's that funny but I can't pass up the chance to insult those French pussies

If you are so tough, tell that to a french soldier, face to face. I'll think he'll soon teach you who the pussy is,.

[Miles Teg]

So I assume that the french will be the cooks and human shields for the real soldiers, the British....or the French could just do what they do best, complain until the enemy gives up....Sorry if you guys don't think it's that funny but I can't pass up the chance to insult those French pussies

If you are so tough, tell that to a french soldier, face to face. I'll think he'll soon teach you who the pussy is,.

And in this case when insult somebody tell him in his native language.

[Kaos]

So I assume that the french will be the cooks and human shields for the real soldiers, the British....or the French could just do what they do best, complain until the enemy gives up....Sorry if you guys don't think it's that funny but I can't pass up the chance to insult those French pussies

It smells really bizarre???
Like.....****!!!!!!
Excuse me, but I don't have much time to talk to you.
Better for you, because it could have made you more clever.
:roll: