Poll: WMDs

[M1A2U2]

Where do you think the WMDs are?

a) Didn't have them since 91
b)Never had them and BUSH knew it!
c)Still in Iraq hidden very well
d)Iran or Syria

[Argyll]

define WMD?
where's your choice?

[Vance]

e) A pasta factory

[ShadowNeo]

f) moved to Egypt, then transported through a StarGate

[mustamato]

A and B.

[UkrainianAmerican]

D) Syria (definitely not iran though)

[Vance]

A and B.
:petting:

[ibstolidude]

Where do you think the WMDs are?

a) Didn't have them since 91
b)Never had them and BUSH knew it!
c)Still in Iraq hidden very well
d)Iran or Syria
Define what you mean...

Iraq's own published report stated they have chemical weapons that were still waiting to be destroyed but that had been disclosed to the UN..

The UN's own documents stated similiar.
There is no question that Iraq had this, by their own admission.

What exactly are you referring too? Did Iraq have the capability to threaten the Western world, perhaps or something to that effect?

[Miles Teg]

z) An American operator called LT.Copperfield make them disappear.

[ibstolidude]

A and B.
You are soooo biased that you actually answered that Iraq never had WMD's???

Whaaaat?

THE UN HAS STATED (as had Iraq (past tense)) that Iraq have had have WMD and WMD's that are un accounted for (all the way up to January prior to the war)...
ANYONE who states that Iraq doesn't/hasn't had WMD since GW1 is ignorant of the UNSCOM reports for the last 12 years.
Let us not pretend that Iraq has only had a few weeks prior to the war to get rid of this stuff in a manner not IAW UNSCOM mandate...There could have been reasons UNSCOM has been unable to account for amounts of these agents to include: they have been hidden, used, passed to other organizations/countries, traded, repeated oversight on the part of the UN AND Iraq, or the Iraqis just thought it would be funny to actually destroy them IAW mandate, but then tell everyone they didn't cause they like the attention.

BUT, that doesn't mean they have the stock piles of the weaponable/weapons grade Chemical/biological agents people have been lead to believe are 'lying' in wait. But the arguements there was no evidence to support that Iraq has WMD is false...there certainly was evidence..
"Was there evidence to support there was an immediate threat to national security of UK and/or US?" "Was UNSCOM not fit to continue the search?" and many others are entirely seperate questions.

By Hans Blix's on words given in text to the UN on 27 Jan 2003 - (these are excepts quotations taken in full)

"While Iraq claims — with little evidence — that it destroyed all biological weapons unilaterally in 1991, it is certain that UNSCOM destroyed large biological weapons production facilities in 1996. The large nuclear infrastructure was destroyed and the fissionable material was removed from Iraq by the IAEA.
One of three important questions before us today is how much might remain undeclared and intact from before 1991; and, possibly, thereafter; the second question is what, if anything, was illegally produced or procured after 1998, when the inspectors left; and the third question is how it can be prevented that any weapons of mass destruction be produced or procured in the future."

"I shall only give some examples of issues and questions that need to be answered and I turn first to the sector of chemical weapons.

Chemical Weapons

The nerve agent VX is one of the most toxic ever developed.

Iraq has declared that it only produced VX on a pilot scale, just a few [metric] tons and that the quality was poor and the product unstable. Consequently, it was said, that the agent was never weaponized. Iraq said that the small quantity of agent remaining after the Gulf War was unilaterally destroyed in the summer of 1991.

UNMOVIC, however, has information that conflicts with this account. There are indications that Iraq had worked on the problem of purity and stabilization and that more had been achieved than has been declared. Indeed, even one of the documents provided by Iraq indicates that the purity of the agent, at least in laboratory production, was higher than declared.

There are also indications that the agent was weaponizied. In addition, there are questions to be answered concerning the fate of the VX precursor chemicals, which Iraq states were lost during bombing in the Gulf War or were unilaterally destroyed by Iraq."

"I have mentioned the issue of anthrax to the Council on previous occasions and I come back to it as it is an important one.

Iraq has declared that it produced about 8,500 liters of this biological warfare agent, which it states it unilaterally destroyed in the summer of 1991. Iraq has provided little evidence for this production and no convincing evidence for its destruction.

There are strong indications that Iraq produced more anthrax than it declared, and that at least some of this was retained after the declared destruction date. It might still exist. Either it should be found and be destroyed under UNMOVIC supervision or else convincing evidence should be produced to show that it was, indeed, destroyed in 1991.

As I reported to the Council on 19 December last year, Iraq did not declare a significant quantity, some 650 kg, of bacterial growth media, which was acknowledged as imported in Iraq's submission to the Amorim panel in February 1999. As part of its 7 December 2002 declaration, Iraq resubmitted the Amorim panel document, but the table showing this particular import of media was not included. The absence of this table would appear to be deliberate as the pages of the resubmitted document were renumbered.

In the letter of 24 January to the President of the Council, Iraq's Foreign Minister stated that "all imported quantities of growth media were declared". This is not evidence. I note that the quantity of media involved would suffice to produce, for example, about 5,000 liters of concentrated anthrax."

http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/Bx27.htm

Regardless of distrusting Bush or disagreeing with his policies that have brought the war in Iraq...to say that Iraq never had WMD's is ignorant of the facts and of history.

[Uncle Sam]

Wow, that's a tough question...

...I guess the only person who would know...


...is the dude who transported them to Syria. :lol:

[Midtown]

Not a or B thats for damn sure. **** saddam

[mustamato]

A and B.
You are soooo biased that you actually answered that Iraq never had WMD's???

Whaaaat?

Of course Iraq had WMD. And we all know which country supplied them as well

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/rumsfeld_o_saddam.jpg

However they were defeated during the first Gulf War and they and UN
destroyed their stocks. Todelooo, that´s why US can´t find anything. I
think Bush knew that this "great threat to US national security" claims
were bull****. We know that CIA knew, it was never them that claimed
all that bull****, it was the White House.

[Argyll]

You know I keep going over this one in my head............humour me for 1 moment.

A convoy of trucks rolls into Damascus and the driver winds down the window and asks a bystander "Is this Syria?"
"Yes" the bystander replies
"Praise be to Allah" replies the truck driver"Now where do you want these WMD's?"

Has anyone got any ideas how long that journey is?
It's probably in excess of 10 hours,yet after that Sat photo nothing was seen again........why if there was an assumption that he was moving such items,was there no survaillance /strike ordered on it to prevent it from reaching it's destination?
Surely this was a High Value Target?
Despite this no arial survaillance was carried out.......I'd want to know why these weapons as claimed were Allowed to leave Iraq in the 1st place?

[NcDeuce]

Iraq's own published report stated they have chemical weapons that were still waiting to be destroyed but that had been disclosed to the UN..

The UN's own documents stated similiar.
There is no question that Iraq had this, by their own admission.

Many people forget this. :|

[George W. Bush]

Many people also forget that we found MOPP type suits, atropine injectors, gas masks, etc.

[Uncle Sam]

You know I keep going over this one in my head............humour me for 1 moment.

A convoy of trucks rolls into Damascus and the driver winds down the window and asks a bystander "Is this Syria?"
"Yes" the bystander replies
"Praise be to Allah" replies the truck driver"Now where do you want these WMD's?"

Has anyone got any ideas how long that journey is?
It's probably in excess of 10 hours,yet after that Sat photo nothing was seen again........why if there was an assumption that he was moving such items,was there no survaillance /strike ordered on it to prevent it from reaching it's destination?
Surely this was a High Value Target?
Despite this no arial survaillance was carried out.......I'd want to know why these weapons as claimed were Allowed to leave Iraq in the 1st place?

Couldn't have said it better myself...oh wait... :P


Wow, that's a tough question...

...I guess the only person who would know...


...is the dude who transported them to Syria.

[Tengu]

F) i bought them

(but dont tell anyone)

[mustamato]

Many people also forget that we found MOPP type suits, atropine injectors, gas masks, etc.

rofl

And they don´t exist in every army? It´s not like Sweden have WMD´s,
yet I had a gasmask in my combat belt etc. And it´s not like we would use
the WMD´s against our selves if we had any. God damn it man.

http://www.soldf.com/images/s_cvatskeskydd.jpg
Shock horror! Sweden has WMD´s! This is the proof!

[Uncle Sam]

*Swedish accent* "Take me to your leader, we come in peace !.....*snicker, snicker*"

http://www.soldf.com/images/s_cvatskeskydd.jpg

[Tengu]

ahahhaha rofl

[ibstolidude]

A and B.
You are soooo biased that you actually answered that Iraq never had WMD's???

Whaaaat?

Of course Iraq had WMD. And we all know which country supplied them as well

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/rumsfeld_o_saddam.jpg

However they were defeated during the first Gulf War and they and UN
destroyed their stocks. Todelooo, that´s why US can´t find anything. I
think Bush knew that this "great threat to US national security" claims
were bull****. We know that CIA knew, it was never them that claimed
all that bull****, it was the White House.
Then why did you answer that they never had them?

&
Perhaps you should have read the above post of mine... that isn't my OPINION... it is the report of the UN's Hans Blix. See what he says about post 91 products.

You seem to think that being against you is being for the other side of the arguement.. They are plenty of intelligent arguements for not going into a war with Iraq and plenty that can be said about intelligence failures, unfortunately nothing you have said falls into any these categories.

Just as your above post would like people to believe that the US government sold the weapons to Iraq when in fact that is completely false. There is no evidence to support this claim. The reality (more frightening to me actually) is that those agents were purchased from private companies and research firms and were shipped overseas as during that time frame it was LEGAL (very scary). Iraq is not the only one who benefited... such transactions were found to take place even domestically.

In fact much of what was sold was dual use or under the auspice of an advancement project (frightening that it didn't sound a few bells) and much came from Japan, France, UK, Germany, the list goes on and on.
an example from the US
http://cns.miis.edu/research/wmdme/flow/iraq/seed.htm

[marktigger]

Many people also forget that we found MOPP type suits, atropine injectors, gas masks, etc

maybe we gate crashed a meeting of the Iraqi Gas mask fetish club :lol:

[Argyll]

Many people also forget that we found MOPP type suits, atropine injectors, gas masks, etc.


Not being worn by frontline troops either,but stored in a safe place!

Maybe someone forgot to tell his troops that it was ok,that all the WMD had been moved to Syria?

What is fundamentally wrong with this scenario?

Why was there no attacks/seizures/SAD's ordered on these if they were such a big Danger? Did intelligence go to sleep when these convoys were moving from Iraq to Syria?
Why were they not being tracked by the wonder system JSTARS to determine their positions and Final Destinations?
Did Intelligence cover all the permutations over this one,or is this just another "assumption"?

[mustamato]

Perhaps you should have read the above post of mine... that isn't my OPINION... it is the report of the UN's Hans Blix.

Oh I know exactly what his opinion is, he attended a lecture at my
University a couple of months ago, and he is of course a celebrity here
in Sweden so I´ve heard it many times in TV and radio. He has never
claimed that neither the UN or US were right. But he definitively knows
that the "proof" presented were a bit erh excessive.

The only argument the White House and people like you has left, so that
the unjustified murder of tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians will not be
in your conscience all too long, is this "not accounted for". Well, have you
ever thought of where these numbers came from, possibly from the
supplier. And who was the supplier. *HINT Rumsfeld shaking hands with
Saddam HINT*

[M1A2U2]

Man, im gonna laugh so hard when they find them. Just keep talking guys your only digging your hole deeper. Sorry but the weapons cannot combust into midair...the UN inspectors saw them first hand...they are somewhere

[wholagun]

A for sure B most likely he knew.

But since this is a poll (where you can only choose one answer) I will pick A.

[ibstolidude]

The only argument the White House and people like you has left, so that
the unjustified murder of tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians will not be
in your conscience all too long, is this "not accounted for". Well, have you
ever thought of where these numbers came from? Possibly from the supplier.
And who was that?

People like me? You know nothing of me or my opinions on the subject as I have not posted them..

All I posted is you that you will and have posted any number of lies, BS in an attempt to further your bashing.

A simple reading of my past posts will reflect my critical nature of GBush, but NOT ARGEE WITH BUSH DOES NOT MAKE IT OKAY TO LIE TO MAKE MY POINT. You sir lie:

look at this thread first you stated that
a) Didn't have them since 91
b)Never had them and BUSH knew it! then you stated:

Of course Iraq had WMD. And we all know which country supplied them as well that makes you either:
a. a liar
b. schizophrenic

[SeanAshi]

Never had them and BUSH knew it!
Bill Clinton and his adminstration was sure Saddam had wmd.

[Cael]

You know where the WMD's at?? You really want to know?? It's in Al Gore's "lock box". :lol:

(Only refering to those who watches SNL)

Edit: grammar.

[budanski]

The anti-war coalition wasnt originally arguing whether Iraq had WMDs or not. They were upset that the US went in without UN approval. So tell me, if the US went in via UN, would the outcome for the search of WMDs ( including 3.9 tons of deadly VX nerve gas, 8,500 liters of anthrax, 550 artillery shells filled with mustard gas, and few other goodies Saddam confessed to prior to the UN inspectors being kicked out in 1998 ) come out different, seeing how you can't go wrong with anything the UN touches?:roll:

Just wondering.
Budanski

[stuntman]

I have no idea why everyone gets mad at what mustardmato states? He or finland have never ever mattered! They never have and again they never will!
finland is a country of poeple and a government who have no ambition in life and fins are not a progressive bunch. So again why do you even care what mustard man says?

[mustamato]

I have no idea why everyone gets mad at what mustardmato states? He or finland have never ever mattered! They never have and again they never will!
finland is a country of poeple and a government who have no ambition in life and fins are not a progressive bunch. So again why do you even care what mustard man says?

I think the difference rather is that we act via UN. Given the size of Finland,
we have just as big international commitment as in example Britain.
After the second world war Finland has had military personell in:

- Sinai 1956-1957, UNEF I.
- Libanon 1958, UNOGIL.
- India and Pakistan, UNMOGIP 1961 -->
- Middle East, UNTSO, 1967 -->
- Cyprus, UNIFICYP 1964 -->
- Sinai, 1973-1979, UNEF II.
- Golan 1979-1993, UNDOF
- Libanon 1982-2001, UNIFIL
- Afghanistan and Pakistan 1988-1990, UNGOMAP.
- Afghanistan and Pakistan 1990-1992, OSGAP
- Iran and Iraq 1988-1991, UNIIMOG
- Namibia 1989-1990, UNTAG
- Iran and Iraq 1991-2003, UNIKOM
- Somalia 1992-1993, UNOSOM I
- Croatia 1992-1993, UNPROFOR
- Macedonia 1993-1999, UNPREDEP
- Bosnia-Herzegovina 1996, IFOR
- Bosnia-Herzegovina 1996-2003, SFOR
- Croatia 1996-1997, UNTAES
- Croatia 1996-2002, UNMOP
- Macedonia 2003, EUFOR
- Kosovo KFOR, 1999 -->
- Kosovo UNMIK, 1999 -->
- Etiopia and Eritrea, UMMEE, 2000 -->
- Afghanistan, ISAF, 2002 -->
- Afghanistan, UNAMA, 2003 -->

Finland don´t give **** about the world eh? :roll:

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/rauhanturvaajat/images/fiilis_unefi_iso.jpg
My former avatar visiting troops in Sinai, UNEF 1

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/rauhanturvaajat/images/fiilis_undof_iso.jpg
Finnish soldiers in Goland, UNDOF

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/rauhanturvaajat/images/fiilis_unifil_iso.jpg
Libanon, UNIFIL

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/rauhanturvaajat/images/fiilis_ruokaa_iso.jpg
Namibia, UNTAG

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/rauhanturvaajat/images/fiilis_kukkula_iso.jpg
Former republic of Yugoslavia, UNPROFOR

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/rauhanturvaajat/images/fiilis_vuoret_iso.jpg
Macedonia, UNPREDEP

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/rauhanturvaajat/images/fiilis_ifor_iso.jpg
Boznia-Herzegovina, IFOR

Etc.

[Seiyuuki]

Oh I know exactly what his opinion is, he attended a lecture at my University a couple of months ago, and he is of course a celebrity here in Sweden so I´ve heard it many times in TV and radio. He has never claimed that neither the UN or US were right. But he definitively knows that the "proof" presented were a bit erh excessive.


So who is right and is it "a bit erh excessive" or "nonexistent?"



The only argument the White House and people like you has left, so that the unjustified murder of tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians will not be in your conscience all too long, is this "not accounted for". Well, have you ever thought of where these numbers came from, possibly from the supplier. And who was the supplier. *HINT Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam HINT*

You mean the "Great Satan" has a conscience?

[Uninen]

Finland don´t give **** about the world eh? :roll:

From all the nations on this god forsaken planet if people must chose one that actually does, it is Finland.

For starters, we have never been in a war that we have started, we have only reacted to invasions.

[stuntman]

I have no idea why everyone gets mad at what mustardmato states? He or finland have never ever mattered! They never have and again they never will!
finland is a country of poeple and a government who have no ambition in life and fins are not a progressive bunch. So again why do you even care what mustard man says?

I think the difference rather is that we act via UN. Given the size of Finland,
we have just as big international commitment as in example Britain.
After the second world war Finland has had military personell in:

- Sinai 1956-1957, UNEF I.
- Libanon 1958, UNOGIL.
- India and Pakistan, UNMOGIP 1961 -->
- Middle East, UNTSO, 1967 -->
- Cyprus, UNIFICYP 1964 -->
- Sinai, 1973-1979, UNEF II.
- Golan 1979-1993, UNDOF
- Libanon 1982-2001, UNIFIL
- Afghanistan and Pakistan 1988-1990, UNGOMAP.
- Afghanistan and Pakistan 1990-1992, OSGAP
- Iran and Iraq 1988-1991, UNIIMOG
- Namibia 1989-1990, UNTAG
- Iran and Iraq 1991-2003, UNIKOM
- Somalia 1992-1993, UNOSOM I
- Croatia 1992-1993, UNPROFOR
- Macedonia 1993-1999, UNPREDEP
- Bosnia-Herzegovina 1996, IFOR
- Bosnia-Herzegovina 1996-2003, SFOR
- Croatia 1996-1997, UNTAES
- Croatia 1996-2002, UNMOP
- Macedonia 2003, EUFOR
- Kosovo KFOR, 1999 -->
- Kosovo UNMIK, 1999 -->
- Etiopia and Eritrea, UMMEE, 2000 -->
- Afghanistan, ISAF, 2002 -->
- Afghanistan, UNAMA, 2003 -->

Finland don´t give **** about the world eh? :roll:

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/rauhanturvaajat/images/fiilis_unefi_iso.jpg
My former avatar visiting troops in Sinai, UNEF 1

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/rauhanturvaajat/images/fiilis_undof_iso.jpg
Finnish soldiers in Goland, UNDOF

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/rauhanturvaajat/images/fiilis_unifil_iso.jpg
Libanon, UNIFIL

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/rauhanturvaajat/images/fiilis_ruokaa_iso.jpg
Namibia, UNTAG

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/rauhanturvaajat/images/fiilis_kukkula_iso.jpg
Former republic of Yugoslavia, UNPROFOR

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/rauhanturvaajat/images/fiilis_vuoret_iso.jpg
Macedonia, UNPREDEP

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/rauhanturvaajat/images/fiilis_ifor_iso.jpg
Boznia-Herzegovina, IFOR

Etc.

This is real interesting I never said that finland wasn't the UN's puppet I just stated that you guys do not really matter in world Affairs!
And ok sending token forces doesn't count. When mustardland sends a brigade in size to most of it's occupational territories then you guys matter until then Sorry for ya!

[mustamato]

This is real interesting I never said that finland wasn't the UN's puppet I just stated that you guys do not really matter in world Affairs!And ok sending token forces doesn't count. When mustardland sends a brigade in size to most of it's occupational territories then you guys matter until then Sorry for ya!

I´m sorry to inform you about the harsh reality, but EU matters in world
affairs, and Finland is a member of EU. It´s not like Alaska matters in
world matters, but USA do. Sometimes the people of Alaska get it their
way in Washington DC, sometimes they don´t. The same thing with Finland,
given the population of Finland, it´s not by far the most influencal member,
but in example having the finnish chief of staff General Hägglund as a
chairman of the EU Military Committee is a exemple of that sometimes
things goes Finlands way as well, especially considered that Finland is not
or do not want to be a member of NATO. And by the way, Finland has a
brigade earmarked for international deployment (FRDF) within this EU-
army. Who knows, maybe some day. Maybe not.

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/rauhanturvaajat/images/henkilot/gustav_hagglund.jpg
Hägglund
by the way

http://www.marttitikka.net/images/eritrea/Unmee001.jpg
The finnish rapid deployment force (FRDF), within the rapid reaction
Pori Brigade has already been used in smaller scale in Kosovo and
Eritrea and Afghanistan

With a population of 5 million, having a brigade earmarked for
international duties is quite good dont you think? USA has like
250+ million, so in comparison USA should have 50 brigades
earmarked for international peace-enforcing/keeping missions,
have you?

[WARPIG]

I think that there are too many factors to give a one line answer to WMD’s.
My theory is that there were some WMD capabilities and some actual weapons.. meager but they existed.
I think George W. had more than enough reason to want to go to war in Iraq but knew that it would not be enough for public support. He put a full court press on his intel people to find something that would give him the public green light.
His intel and advisors were busy looking to tell him what he wanted to hear. If they were told to go and see how dangerous Iraq was right now without the road to war that was being built.. the intel would have reflected that Iraq was only a minor threat and the build-up to war and the increased pressure was effective in retarding Saddam’s capability.
The thing of it is… even if we would have not gone to war… accepted that the threat of force was enough to leash Saddam within reason… how long would that last? We would have had to keep a lot of soldiers in Saudi Arabia for quite a while just to keep Saddam from getting comfortable. They would still have been in danger. Saddam’s regime would still be slowly choking the middle east. The troops in Saudi would likely be in danger from terrorists ( like in Iraq now) since we are just hanging around the neighborhood. I think George W. is not a “legal” thinker. He doesn’t think about covering his ass first. Clinton would have taken the intel and asked for someone to “sign off on it” or guarantee it before making a decision. It covers his ass and makes the intel have to be 100% certain before they even mention anything to the Commander in Chief. This safe but not really practical. Us cowboy Americans would rather do the right thing first and ask forgiveness later. Bush just counted his chickens too soon.

[Argyll]

Spot on WARPIG!............at least you're honest!
I think if both sides of the Atlantic were more honest with their citizens then this would not be an issue today!

[Basil]

Sorry but a is wrong tIraqi had WMD post 91- UN teams were still finding WMD and destroying it right up till they were expelled in 98/ early 99. Hell in 98 they found roughly 5 tons of VX nerve agent- all previous intel said Iraq didn't have VX, they found that stockpile on a tip off. Saddams Government only really admitted to things when they'd been found.

WMD is only half the battle- you need to weaponise it and then have an effective delivery system. UAV- L-29- good for spraying own Pop'n- Iraq had Mig-23 or mirage F1's to deliver WMD and you only have to ask iranian troops if they used WMD.

Mush:- Anthrax is probably only WMD America supplied Iraq with. Sarin, Tabun are Soviet agents, the VX Iraq had is also a Russian derivative- thank god they didn't have Novichok though. App Syria has the formula- a Russian general was sacked in 96 because of this apparently.

Personally it's possible that there is WMD in Iraq somewhere. Probably buried like they bured those Mig-25RB's/ Su-25's. In which case it's no use to them.

Iraq was invoved in starting up the Libyan Nuclear weapon program or at leats Iraqi Scientists where involved to some degree. In all honesty the problem is not so much WMD itself- whether a country had WMD or Not isn't the issue- at the end of the day iraq had the people and equipment to make large volumes of WMD- but without a decent delivery system what would be the point from a military viewpoint.

Heard reports of a ex- iraqi Intel and Al Qaeda connection devloping a basic WMD capability in Northern Iraq- haven't heard much more on that.

I'm surprised people keep talking up US involvement in Iran Iraq war- sure they were involved in giving them intel- a few MD 500's. I'll think you'll find though it wasn't a US Nuclear raeactor being built at Osirak, or US built tanks, or Helicopters or fighter jets- most of the equipment was either French or Russian in origin, Germany also supplied arms. I guess France and Russia may have been interested in keeping Saddam in power to recoup some of there unpaid debts Saddam owed them.

[Sixgun Symphony]

D) Syria (definitely not iran though)

ditto

[usa320]

a) Didn't have them since 91

Mustumato truly shows his incompetence by voting for A.

Even the French and SWEEDEN agree Saddam had WMD in the mid 90's. The UN and US also concur.

If you ask me- i think that there are still some burried in Iraq, either in the middle of nowhere or hidden in shacks and homes. I also feel confident to say that there were probably some WMD transported to Syria, and some may have fallen into the hands of Certain elements within Iran.

[Argyll]

a) Didn't have them since 91

Mustumato truly shows his incompetence by voting for A.

Even the French and SWEEDEN agree Saddam had WMD in the mid 90's. The UN and US also concur.

If you ask me- i think that there are still some burried in Iraq, either in the middle of nowhere or hidden in shacks and homes. I also feel confident to say that there were probably some WMD transported to Syria, and some may have fallen into the hands of Certain elements within Iran.

Are you a store manager or an Intelligence analyst?

Your obvious intelligence expertise is obviously wasted stacking shelves in the wee small hours of the morning,why don't you phone Langley and offer your services as you seem to have the whole WMD issue solved :bash:

[usa320]

Come on- i aint no expert, but anyone with common sense knows you cant make a few hundred thousand 50 gallon drums disappear overnight.

STuff he had, and we tagged in 1998 is now nowhere to be found...what the hell do you think happened to it?

[Operation Ivy]

Wow this thread was flame bait :|

[cut]

STuff he had, and we tagged in 1998 is now nowhere to be found...what the hell do you think happened to it?
destroyed '99 along with the rest ;)

[Argyll]

Come on- i aint no expert, but anyone with common sense knows you cant make a few hundred thousand 50 gallon drums disappear overnight.

STuff he had, and we tagged in 1998 is now nowhere to be found...what the hell do you think happened to it?

No but that's what your assuming though,yet not a single Iraqi has come forward to claim he was a lorry driver,or helped load these trucks,or excavator operator who helped bury them,yet those who would be in charge of such an operation would by now, be fully aware that the Old Iraq is gone ,banished forever,and that Saddam along with the regime is also gone forever,so what would they have to lose by coming forward and asking for a $ 1 Million dollar tip off?


I got a question for you,where are all of Saddams body doubles?

[usa320]

We caught 2 of em back when we also caught his head bodyguard.

The rest have probably assimilated back into the Iraqi population.

[Argyll]

We caught 2 of em back when we also caught his head bodyguard.

The rest have probably assimilated back into the Iraqi population.


2 what truck drivers?Or Body doubles?

What's this "we" thing?...........were you there or do you mean the Coalition,just for your info ,not all the top 52 have been captured by the US Armed Forces ;)

I find it pretty funny that A Saddam lookalike can just "blend" right back into society..........very funny indeed.......where did you read that they had captured 2 of them?
Got a link?
I must have missed this one somwhere,as I would have thought it would have been flashed around the Globe ?

[usa320]

No, i cant find a link now- it was in like last june or something. They were in a basement with the head bodyguard. Marines found em.

Body doubles of course i mean.

As for destroying all that WMD in 1999, we would have known. Stuff has to be burned or exploded, and we would have been able to see the fire on satellite images or pick up the chemicals in the air by using air sampling.

Also, the sheer amount of stuff that was logged by the UN would take like a decade to dispose of safely.

Also important to note- in David Kays report, while he didnt find any stockpiles of WMD, what he did find is the equipment required to make them. According to his report


" Had Iraq Acquired Enriched Uranium or plutonium from a third party, they had the capability to build a nuclear bomb in as little time as one year."

[duck]

I'm beginning to have different thoughts on the issue. Even if the Iraqi intelligence was manipulated the Pakistanis have made every effort to share their nuclear expertise with their Muslim brothers ( and the most indidel North Koreans ). There is no way a nuclear attack in America, Japan or Europe would be the lesser evil to a war against a brutal dictatorship. In fact, a regime change in Iran is a very consequent next step when you think of it, and of course kicking out the fanatic religious parties from the Israeli government.

[usa320]

I definately think that we cannot make a serious effort in the war against terrorism and the war against proliferation of arms until we make a serious effort to either forcibly change the Iranian theocracy or incite the moderates and intellects in Iran to do it in a less violent fashion.

It has to happen though.

Syria must also be dealt with.

See Syria and Iran, and the groups they support, they are out to kill us all. Anyone who loves freedom. North Korea on the other hand is more or less out to do business...to blackmail...to make money...Sure they are a threat, but i think we need to concentrate on the more extremist threats first, and in the meantime plan our approach to the nuclear north.

[A Soldier]

Both c and d

[Tommy Gunn]

Of course Iraq had WMD. And we all know which country supplied them as well


It was France that built their nuclear power plant. It was German chemical companies that supplied Iraq with everything to make chemical weapons.

Iraq was invaded because they were not complying with UN inspections for WMD'.

[aFgHaNibOi]

I read a newspaper headline yesterday afternoon that said:

Bush acknoledghes that no weapons have been found, but war is still justified.

rofl

[A Soldier]

:backhand:
Yeah thats right the war is justified, because there were more factors than just WMD's. You have to think about humanitarian issues as well. Saddam in no way compares to Hitler but if he was left in power who is to say he couldn't become one, he has previously shown he is not far off.

[WARPIG]

If I rob a bank with a squirt gun in my pocket.. do the people in the bank feel less threatened? The threat of a gun or being killed by a gun was still there even though the gun never really existed. Signs of a real gun were there, maybe the real danger wasn't but the percieved threat was.
The person robbing the bank was the real threat and a criminal act, the act of robbery was also a criminal act. Is he less of a criminal than one with a real gun? Many criminals do not use guns because they think the lack of a real gun means lack of evidence.

Maybe not the best analogy but the threat or percieved threat that Saddam represented was there. Maybe we got the intel wrong. Maybe it was there and it was moved. Maybe the actual weapons were meager and no real threat. Cops don't question whether an armed suspect is really armed or using a squirt-gun. The US didn't need to question whether the actual WMD were there or just a meager start.

[Argyll]

So it wasn't a smoking gun were needed to look for, but rather a "Wet one"?