Video of Finnish Armored Brigade [new vids added!]

[Uninen]

Here:

armouredbrigade.fi (http://www.armouredbrigade.fi/)

Check out the Multimedia section, as that the main page, full of all things nice and interesting..

Video from me:

In DIVX format,

The Armored Brigade of FDF Intro Video (save as) (http://personal.inet.fi/koti/uninen/uploads/Sekalaisii/The_Armored_Brigade_FDF_Intro_Video.avi)

Some pics of the vid, also from me:
http://personal.inet.fi/koti/uninen/uploads/Sekalaisii/The_Armored_Brigade_FDF_Intro_Video_frame_0000.jpg
T-72M1 MBT in camo.

http://personal.inet.fi/koti/uninen/uploads/Sekalaisii/The_Armored_Brigade_FDF_Intro_Video_frame_0109.jpg
This T-54 MBT is about to become victim for T-72M1s 125mm 2A46M Rapira AT-Gun.

http://personal.inet.fi/koti/uninen/uploads/Sekalaisii/The_Armored_Brigade_FDF_Intro_Video_frame_0113.jpg
125mm hits T-54 MBT.

http://personal.inet.fi/koti/uninen/uploads/Sekalaisii/The_Armored_Brigade_FDF_Intro_Video_frame_0136.jpg
125mm hits T-54 MBT, note the flying debris.

http://personal.inet.fi/koti/uninen/uploads/Sekalaisii/The_Armored_Brigade_FDF_Intro_Video_frame_1262.jpg
T-72M1 MBT at speed.

http://personal.inet.fi/koti/uninen/uploads/Sekalaisii/The_Armored_Brigade_FDF_Intro_Video_frame_1670.jpg
T-72M1 MBT on speed in water.

http://personal.inet.fi/koti/uninen/uploads/Sekalaisii/The_Armored_Brigade_FDF_Intro_Video_frame_1955.jpg
Firing AT-5 Konkurs ATGM.

woot

Heres 3 'new' vids:

1. FDF BMP-2 and T-72! (save as..) (http://personal.inet.fi/koti/uninen/uploads/Sekalaisii/Weapons%20-%20armor%20-%20BMP-2%20and%20T-72.avi)

2. FDF Leopard 2! (save as..) (http://personal.inet.fi/koti/uninen/uploads/Sekalaisii/Weapons%20-%20armor%20-%20Leopard%202.avi)

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/ilma2002/images/film_panssari.gif
3. MBTs in action. (http://tietokannat.mil.fi/ilma2002/videot/panssari.mpg)

These new vids have sound, and the last one is especially good!

woot

[UkrainianSpetsnaz]

UNINENENENENENNENEN. whats the URL of that other forum where I signed on to? I lost the link!!

[Uninen]

http://rfforces.phpbbhost1.info/index.php

You can also find a link on my singnature, on that pic..

;)

[elguapo]

what's a 2A46M Rapira AT-Gun? :D

any photos?

[Uninen]

what's a 2A46M Rapira AT-Gun? :D

any photos?

It the Main weapon of T-72M1..

125mm 2A46M Rapira AT-Gun (link) (http://mainbattletanks.czweb.org/Tanky/subsys/tkn2a46.htm)

http://mainbattletanks.czweb.org/Tanky/subsys/tkn2a46.jpg
125mm 2A46 AT-Gun.

http://mainbattletanks.czweb.org/Tanky/subsys/2a46m4.jpg
125mm 2A46M-4 AT-Gun.

[elguapo]

oh I thought it was something else....

by the way any photos of the patria family? Do you know if it's operational in Finland yet?

[Operation Ivy]

woot

[Uninen]

by the way any photos of the patria family? Do you know if it's operational in Finland yet?

You mean AMV?

Sure..

Forget Stryker, we got something much better! AMV 8x8! (link) (http://rfforces.phpbbhost1.info/viewtopic.php?t=102)

Heres a teaser:
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patria/images/patria5.jpg
Wroooooooooooooooooooom!

:lol:

[Uninen]

:|

So nobody actually liked the video?

Sorry, i wont post anything important / rare again..

:oops:

[stuntman]

:|

So nobody actually liked the video?

Sorry, i wont post anything important / rare again..

:oops:

The country side is nice but the tactics and equipment are most definetly inadequate!
So please post current stuff! THX!
Or was this current?
lol

[Uninen]

:roll:

Its a PR vid.. :lol: also newest hardware is Leorard 2s and CV90s.. also, with the real tactics that those guys use and the skills they have you wouldnt want yours M1s to face those T-72s in that terrain, belive me..

;)

[stuntman]

:roll:

Its a PR vid.. :lol: also newest hardware is Leorard 2s and CV90s.. also, with the real tactics that those guys use and the skills they have you wouldnt want yours M1s to face those T-72s in that terrain, believe me..

;)
leo's and cv90 are second class untested platforms! Plus when was the last time a t-72 ever beat a m1a1/2? Never...
Not forgeting our superior air power! It's win/win for USA!
Again I win!

[Ratamacue]

:roll:

Its a PR vid.. :lol: also newest hardware is Leorard 2s and CV90s.. also, with the real tactics that those guys use and the skills they have you wouldnt want yours M1s to face those T-72s in that terrain, believe me..

;)
leo's and cv90 are second class untested platforms! Plus when was the last time a t-72 ever beat a m1a1/2? Never...
Not forgeting our superior air power! It's win/win for USA!
Again I win!

Guys, don't start this. We've had enough M1 vs. Leo and US vs. world flamefests already. It's lose/lose for everybody.

[Uninen]

CV90, best IFV that there is in west, and on the whole planet only BMP-3 is better, and even that is because of the BMP-3s MBT like fire power..

;)

[mustamato]

I´m not too impressed by the finnish armoured brigade(s) myself either, but I´m sure they´d manage to whoop stuntmans ass atleast, he probably don´t have a day of military training, so I really do wonder how he could see anything of the tactics used in that short low-quality no-audio clip :roll: The finnish tactics could be described as "Iraqi guerilla", and we see that they whoop american ass daily.It´s not like the finns ever even dreamed of being superior or having the intitative against Soviet Union during the cold war, guerilla war would be all that it was about. Even special guerilla teams are trained for wartime duties, and the finnish tactics and equipment (in example road-side mines so there would be ready IED´s to kill occupying yankees och ruskies with) is adapted to that as well.

Finnish armoured brigades wartime organization

http://www2.mil.fi/maavoimat/maavoimat/kokoonpanot/images/pspr_en.gif


Strength:

about 5700 men

Examples of materiel:

Main battle tanks about 65
Armoured infantry fighting vehicles about about 100
Armoured personnel carriers about about 100
Armoured command vehicles and
armoured C2 vehicles
about 25
Armoured AA vehicles 6 to 9
Armoured engineer vehicles about 20
Armoured forward observation vehicles about 15

Yeah the equipment is pretty old, but then on the hand Finland is not a tank-
country either. They are really only usefull in the southern parts of the
country, and they are even there higly bound to use the roads where they are vulnerable as we can see in Iraq today. Finland is
pretty much a defenders paradise and highly mechanized and heavy armour
is good **** in defendless desert countries like Iraq, but I don´t think the
Bradleys and Abrams would be too much use in terrain like the finnish one:

http://www.vivafinlandia.com/jpg/saimaa.jpg

[Uninen]

Even special guerilla teams are trained for wartime duties,

Yeah,

Its called Recon today, and like you said, they are experts of sabotage and ambush, guerilla warfare..

I and i know few such people, like my cousin thats Recon Sergant and one of my friends thats Recon trooper.. nasty things they learn to do..

;)

[Uninen]

terrain like the finnish one:

http://www.vivafinlandia.com/jpg/saimaa.jpg

Yeah..

324 000 square KMs, 130 000 lakes..

rofl

[Uninen]

And to add to that, ranges over 1km at our terrain are very rare.. and T-72s 125mm DU Sabot can tear trough any MBT at that range.. ;)

(Even its tungsten sabot can..)

Not to even mention those Leopard 2A4s, that will be upgraded as A6 model as i understand..

[stuntman]

I´m not too impressed by the finnish armoured brigade(s) myself either, but I´m sure they´d manage to whoop stuntmans ass atleast, he probably don´t have a day of military training, so I really do wonder how he could see anything of the tactics used in that short low-quality no-audio clip :roll: The finnish tactics could be described as "Iraqi guerilla", and we see that they whoop american ass daily.It´s not like the finns ever even dreamed of being superior or having the intitative against Soviet Union during the cold war, guerilla war would be all that it was about. Even special guerilla teams are trained for wartime duties, and the finnish tactics and equipment (in example road-side mines so there would be ready IED´s to kill occupying yankees och ruskies with) is adapted to that as well.

Finnish armoured brigades wartime organization

http://www2.mil.fi/maavoimat/maavoimat/kokoonpanot/images/pspr_en.gif


Strength:

about 5700 men

Examples of materiel:

Main battle tanks about 65
Armoured infantry fighting vehicles about about 100
Armoured personnel carriers about about 100
Armoured command vehicles and
armoured C2 vehicles
about 25
Armoured AA vehicles 6 to 9
Armoured engineer vehicles about 20
Armoured forward observation vehicles about 15

Yeah the equipment is pretty old, but then on the hand Finland is not a tank-
country either. They are really only usefull in the southern parts of the
country, and they are even there higly bound to use the roads where they are vulnerable as we can see in Iraq today. Finland is
pretty much a defenders paradise and highly mechanized and heavy armour
is good **** in defendless desert countries like Iraq, but I don´t think the
Bradleys and Abrams would be too much use in terrain like the finnish one:

http://www.vivafinlandia.com/jpg/saimaa.jpg

whoop american ass ? How because we lose one or two daily? How long would mustardland (finland) last in Iraq? Any ways we could run over your asses in a heartbeat and yes I might be military but If I tell you I would have to kill you..
ANd russian vodka is better!

[Uninen]

:lol: :roll: OMFG! I love it when people talk **** about matters they dont understand, you want that Bush tests your theory stuntman?

Bush to the generals:

Lets invade Finland!

Generals:

Uhm.. Mr.President, lets not..

;)

http://koti.mbnet.fi/~jjuvonen/tias2000/f-18_faf1.jpg
For more hints, check here! (click) (http://phpbbhost1.info/rfforces/viewtopic.php?t=164)
woot

[stuntman]

:lol: :roll: OMFG! I love it when people talk **** about matters they dont understand, you want that Bush tests your theory stuntman?

Bush to the generals:

Lets invade Finland!

Generals:

Uhm.. Mr.President, lets not..

;)

http://koti.mbnet.fi/~jjuvonen/tias2000/f-18_faf1.jpg
For more hints, check here! (click) (http://phpbbhost1.info/rfforces/viewtopic.php?t=164)
woot

lol more like
Bush to the generals:

Lets invade Finland!

Generals:

Uhm.. Mr.President to easy!
And so what I saw your little forum, it's full of really old and usless russian equipment and ok you have a couple of 1st generation f18 so what. Your pilots are still lackeys! Look I don't like the flame war but lets face it I win!

[Uninen]

Your pilots are still lackeys! Look I don't like the flame war but lets face it I win!

"Qualitas Potentia Nostra"

;)

[mustamato]

whoop american ass ? How because we lose one or two daily? How long would mustardland (finland) last in Iraq? Any ways we could run over your asses in a heartbeat and yes I might be military but If I tell you I would have to kill you..
ANd russian vodka is better!´

You know what they say, "kill a yankee or two a day and keep the american away" :)

[stuntman]

whoop american ass ? How because we lose one or two daily? How long would mustardland (finland) last in Iraq? Any ways we could run over your asses in a heartbeat and yes I might be military but If I tell you I would have to kill you..
ANd russian vodka is better!´

You know what they say, "kill a yankee or two a day and keep the american away" :)


Yeah I have also heard Kill one Fin and they become nazi supporters for the rest of ww2...
You like that!

[tony6]

Jeeeez ppl-don't You have some better things to do?
:)

[Uninen]

Jeeeez ppl-don't You have some better things to do?
:)

This is military pics forum, military and conflict goes hand in hand i belive.. ;) (LMAO)

[UoUo]

whoop american ass ? How because we lose one or two daily? How long would mustardland (finland) last in Iraq? Any ways we could run over your asses in a heartbeat and yes I might be military but If I tell you I would have to kill you..
ANd russian vodka is better!´

You know what they say, "kill a yankee or two a day and keep the american away" :)


Yeah I have also heard Kill one Fin and they become nazi supporters for the rest of ww2...
You like that!

Good 1 !!!! rofl

[Uninen]

:|

To defend our nation is more like it, and that defending didnt just include 'Finns' but Finnish Gypsies and Jews also.. who had no problems defending our great and free nation against USSRs invasions..

:petting:

[Uninen]

And what becomes to the 'rest of the ww2', you just dont know what your talking about. :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapland_war

LAPLAND WAR..

Correction to that text: Finns lost 5400 dead, Germans 5600 dead.

(and not 1000 and 2000)

So much for that.

:bash:

[UoUo]

I didn't get the meaning of that topic...in the buttom line you say that USA can't take Finland?

[Uninen]

UoUo,

No it can not..

Neither it can take Sweden or Israel either. :P

[Uninen]

Correction:


I didn't get the meaning of that topic...

Meaning of the topic was the god damn vid, and not this BS. :)

[UoUo]

Look....army vs army...USA can take evrey country in the world..maybe USA can't hold those countries...but in army vs army...they can Take every country in the world.

[mustamato]

Look....army vs army...USA can take evrey country in the world..maybe USA can't hold those countries...but in army vs army...they can Take every country in the world.

Exactly what I think as well. Occupying Finland would not be as easy as
occupying Iraq given the finnish terrain, but US would succeed. But then
defeating the guerilla would be a whole another matter. And in countries
like Finland where it´s quite obvious that the country would be occupied
the soldiers are given training in taking their own initiatives to some
extenth, we were learned to blow things up (in other words, set up
IED´s) and so forth.

If (and if) the occupier would be seen as the enemy and not the liberator,
then US could never win over us. Finns has been around for a couple of
thousand years, and first during the 20th century Finland became
indpendent. It takes more than some "just for the moment"-superpower
to defeat us.

[UoUo]

But you agree with me that if the USA just wanted to take the finish army She can do that in less then 24 hours?

And i am not talking about tanking the country...

And just to add: let's hope that the US is not just a"superpower to the moment"...the world shpuld be glad that he have USA.

[Uninen]

UoUo,

You really think that? :lol: I pitty you if you actually do, cause that isnt in touch with reality.. you have been fooled.. :(

From where should i start? Infranty and marksmanship.. in Kosovo and Bosnia, these marksmanship competitions.. Finns tend to win everytime.. once US commander said to the Finnish commader after such competion: Finn, you snipers are excelent.. to which Finnish commander replied: These are not my 'snipers' these are my average rifle mans, we have special people as our snipers..

and he was telling the truth..

It has gone so far that Americans even insisted that they must have a go with our rifles as they were no match with theirs..

Here:


What is even funnier:

:lol:

http://www.nato.int/kfor/chronicle/images/2003/chronicle_200306/18a.jpg
"Each person must shoot an excellent performance at every position to get the golden shooting medal",
US Troops with 7.62 RK 95 TP! (link..) (http://www.nato.int/kfor/chronicle/2003/chronicle_06/18.htm)

http://www.hut.fi/~jpkontio/suoritusmerkit/ampmki_1lk.gif
This is the golden shooting medal.
Letters SA in it stand for Suomen Armeija, Finnish Army.
(I have one.. but i earned it many times, they just give you that one.. ::(: cheap bastards! :lol: )


Shooting up to the point:

A shiny medal was in everybody's mind when ten US and Finnish soldiers got together on the rifle range. The main idea for the US soldiers was to shoot and to handle the Finnish army 7.62 RK 95 -assault rifle, made by SAKO. The idea increased, and most of the US soldiers had a chance at shooting the Finnish rifle and a chance at winning the shooting medal. The Finns also demonstrated and taught them how to handle the local (Zastava-Kragujevac) assault rifle, light machine gun, and target rifle. Many thanks go out to Saku Pesu, Fin Army and his team for organisning the event.

The shooting was divided into three different performance times. The first time they were in the lying position, the second time they were in the kneeling position and the third time (not shot yet) they will be in the standing position.

Each person must shoot an excellent performance at every position to get the golden shooting medal. After second shooting period there are still some shooters who have the chance to get that shiny golden medal.

The whole idea not only introduced the Finnish assault rifle, but also very good relationships were made.
:lol:

In the red text there a link to the source.. :lol:

[UoUo]

Tell me...how many tanks finland hold?

How big is your air force?

What aircraft you hold?

How many APC you hold?

[mustamato]

Tell me...how many tanks finland hold?

How big is your air force?

What aircraft you hold?

How many APC you hold?

Enough to not get defeated in 24 hours, if US doesn´t nuke us of course,
then it would take 24 seconds, and after another 24 seconds Russia would
nuke US (since Finland is neighbour with Russia and if we get nuked it sure
as hell also affects Russia). :roll:

24 hours rofl

Where the hell did you get that from?

[UoUo]

Tell me...how many tanks finland hold?

How big is your air force?

What aircraft you hold?

How many APC you hold?

Enough to not get defeated in 24 hours :roll:

hmm...you know what? 6 days...that all the time that the USA need to defeat you.

BTW: don't get me wrong....i am not bashing your army...but USA is the world super power..come on.

[Uninen]

Tell me...how many tanks finland hold?

About +160 T-72 Modified +130 Leopard 2s +70 T-55M Modified


How big is your air force?

At current moment they have personel (skilled pilots..) enough for 180 interceptors for around the clock operation.


What aircraft you hold?

F-18 C and D.


How many APC you hold?

IFVs and APC, several thousand BMP-1, BMP-2, CV90, AVM, Patria XA 180-203 series, BTR-50 and BTR-60 at least. plus tracked all-terrain vehicles that are protected against small arms fire.

[UoUo]

Soory...but this is nothing for USA.

And again i am not bashing your army...i am just saying that the only super power in the world can win your country.

[Uninen]

i am just saying that the only super power in the world can win your country.

:roll:

You think that they can bear 1 000 000 dead in 105 days like USSR?

:cantbeli:

[Javehn]

Nice stuff , Uninen , very nice stuff indeed . Respect .

http://rfforces.phpbbhost1.info/images/smiles/respect.gif

Nice forum you have by the way ... I know this Vlad guy (well , not personally , from other forum :roll: ) .

Somehow this forum manages to make everything very simple - our candy is better then your candy (and making everything political ) . Something i learned on this forum while ago , German tankers would kick US tankers ass for a while , in different competitions for NATO crues ,like CAT (Leo2 for German , M1 for US ) .

[UoUo]

i am just saying that the only super power in the world can win your country.

:roll:

You think that they can bear 1 000 000 dead in 105 days like USSR?

:cantbeli:

And how can you casue them 1,000,000 in 105 days?

You can't. :cantbeli:

[Uninen]

You can't. :cantbeli:

Thats true, but then again, they wouldnt be able to make us take that kinds of loses by conventional weapons, on our land. :cantbeli:

[Uninen]

Nice forum you have by the way ... I know this Vlad guy (well , not personally , from other forum :roll: ) .

Its Vlads.. ;) also his your country man.. woot

But you propably knew that already.. :)

[Kingpin]

Thanks a lot for this great video. Best advertising for good old T-72. :)

BTW it is wrong that USA can win army vs army against any country.
Try against Russia and you'll see.
1. Strategical Nuke strike. USA in ruins. Missile defence can't help
2. If both war goes without destroying whole planet Russia anyway can employ a lot of different tactical nukes against US army units.
3. If war goes 100% conventional it is still almost impossible to win over Russia. No matter how badly current army is equipped. Defence industry have to keep "special situation" potential. This means that after country attacked industry still able to produce required amount of weapons. Since that weapons designed for conscript army it is simple in production and reliable in battle. It is not required much time to train personel to use it. So within couple of months Russian army become armed to teeth and big enough to repel any attacks.
Among weaponry - intensive AA defences on all levels and large air forces. This means low close air support for US troops and air strikes on their heads.
Almost all terrains of Russia are well suitable for staging guerilla war by regular Spetsnaz units with help from local population.
And so on so on...

Well i agree that Russian army also have no chance to win against US army but anyway it willn't lose. This means pat situation for both.

[Uninen]

Thanks a lot for this great video. Best advertising for good old T-72. :)

Well,

It was better than one full of explosives and getting a Javelin hit to ignite those.. rofl

[UoUo]

I wanted to know something....

The american M-60 design to be used against the T-72 ?

[Uninen]

I wanted to know something....

The american M-60 design to be used against the T-72 ?

No,

M1 was.

T-55 and M-60 were one pair, M1 and T-72 the another..

*edit*

After that US is stuck with M1, while Russia has got T-80, T-90 and is about to get now new generation MBT in form of BE or T-95 or even both. :)

[UoUo]

I wanted to know something....

The american M-60 design to be used against the T-72 ?

No,

M1 was.

T-55 and M-60 were one pair, M1 and T-72 the another..

*edit*

After that US is stuck with M1, while Russia has got T-80, T-90 and is about to get now new generation MBT in form of BE or T-95 or even both. :)

Oh i see...

Anyone can gice me extra info about the T-72? engane and stuff.

[Javehn]

Have you felt the earthquake today , UOUO ? Spooky ...That was my good morning .

[Uninen]

Anyone can gice me extra info about the T-72? engane and stuff.

Here: T-72 MBT (http://rfforces.phpbbhost1.info/viewtopic.php?t=25) :)

[Uninen]

Have you felt the earthquake today , UOUO ? Spooky ...That was my good morning .

Vlad told me you had one.. (on messanger..) :)

[UoUo]

Have you felt the earthquake today , UOUO ? Spooky ...That was my good morning .

No...i was in deep sleep...but my parnets did felt the earthquake....

I heard that was about 5.6 richter.

EDit: the engane of the T-72 is only 780HP..how can it be?

[Uninen]

http://www2.mil.fi/maavoimat/kalustoesittely/00052_en.dsp

Read.. and it is..
combat weight 41.5 t
motor V-12 diesel, 780 hp
It weights 10 to 20 tons less than western MBTs.

[UoUo]

http://www2.mil.fi/maavoimat/kalustoesittely/00052_en.dsp

Read.. and it is..
combat weight 41.5 t
motor V-12 diesel, 780 hp
It weights 10 to 20 tons less than western MBTs.

Oh....i see.

thanks for the info.

[Javehn]

780 HP is good characteristics . Your car has something like 70 HP .
For example Merk 1 had 800 HP .

[duck]

"Foreign - Tuesday 10.12.2002

Prime Minister Lipponen discusses Russia with President Bush in Washington

No pressure on NATO issue; Cheney promises to reveal information of Iraqi weapons


Russia was the main topic in discussions when US President George W. Bush met with Finnish Prime Minister Paavo Lipponen in the White House on Monday.
In their talks lasting about three quarters of an hour, the two leaders also discussed the hottest issue on the world political stage: the crisis in Iraq. The United States also reiterated its desire that Turkey should be allowed to join the European Union.
The importance of the meeting from Finland's point of view was underscored by the fact that Secretary of State Colin Powell was also present.

Earlier in the day Lipponen had a separate meeting with Vice President **** Cheney, who said that the US is ready to publish its own reconnaissance material it says indicates that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. If there is a discrepancy between the US information and the report submitted to the United Nations by Iraq, it could be seen as a violation of UN Security Council resolution 1441, which Washington could see as a cause for military action.
Iraq also came up at the meeting with President Bush. Lipponen said after the meeting that Bush had expressed considerable skepticism about Iraqi claims that it had no more banned weapons.
Bush and Lipponen agreed that the UN arms inspections should be brought to a conclusion. If war ultimately breaks out, Finland is willing to help deal with the aftermath - by supplying humanitarian aid and taking part in a possible peacekeeping operation. Bush said that he appreciated Lipponen's offer, and Finland's contribution in the fight against terrorism.

Russia was an important topic in Lipponen's discussions with both Bush and Cheney.
"Bush said that relations with Russia were better than ever. I was able to say the same on Finland's behalf", Lipponen said.
In his discussions with both leaders, Lipponen took up the question of cooperation on environmental projects in the north of Russia. Some years ago the United States made what it called a Northern European Initiative, which Lipponen said fits in well with the Northern Dimension project of the European Union.
"In the new situation, with NATO expanding, it is important to intensify cooperation with Russia", Lipponen said, adding that it would be good for the United States to be involved, because Russia's northern areas present "great problems and great opportunities".

Both Cheney and Bush took up the aspirations of the key US ally, Turkey, to join the European Union. Lipponen made no promises, and said that the issue should proceed according to the EU Charter.

Under EU procedure, a European Union summit can make a decision on the launch of membership talks with an applicant only after the European Commission has certified in its own report that the applicant meets certain requirements concerning democracy and human rights.
There has been no such report concerning Turkey, and Lipponen doubted that one would be forthcoming even next autumn. The upcoming EU summit in Copenhagen at the end of this week could urge the Commission to make such a report, but it cannot make any decisions on the launch of membership talks.

The question of NATO enlargement came up in the talks with both US leaders. Lipponen explained Finland's policy of non-alignment, which Bush said he appreciates. Lipponen also said that Bush had told him that if Finland wants to join NATO, it would be welcome to do so. However, there were no sales pitches in either discussion. At the White House Lipponen brought forward his concern about relations between the United States and Europe. "We need each other, and we must be capable of developing our cooperation in a positive direction", Lipponen said.
He also said that he hoped that President Bush would find the time to come to Europe to hold talks with European leaders "so that we might better understand each other".

Lipponen described Bush as direct and open. "I told him how much we in Finland appreciate his leadership, when the question is one of very difficult global challenges", Lipponen said"

Finnish politicians seem a "bit" more realistic than some Miltaryphotos members.

[Uninen]

Its the torque that matters on tank motor.. not total hp.. :) speed is secondary, protection and fire power is vital, like in merkava.. ;)

[UoUo]

Its the torque that matters on tank motor.. not total hp.. :) speed is secondary, protection and fire power is vital, like in merkava.. ;)

Ha..i see...cuz i know that the M1A1 hold an 1500Hp...but as you said now i know why the T-72 don't need such huge HP.


Still - the Merkava mark4 kick T-72/80/90 ass.. :bash:

Just kidding..don't start a flame war. :hug:

[Kingpin]

Its the torque that matters on tank motor.. not total hp.. :) speed is secondary, protection and fire power is vital, like in merkava.. ;)

Ha..i see...cuz i know that the M1A1 hold an 1500Hp...but as you said now i know why the T-72 don't need such huge HP.


Still - the Merkava mark4 kick T-72/80/90 ass.. :bash:

Just kidding..don't start a flame war. :hug:

No flame war. This was not checked yet :) :)

[Uninen]

Lipponen described Bush as direct and open. "I told him how much we in Finland appreciate his leadership, when the question is one of very difficult global challenges", Lipponen said"

Now that funny.. :lol: The people here hate USA for what it has done since 911, like in every nation on the earth.

Politics is something unreal, and reality is very different. :cantbeli:

[Uninen]

Ha..i see...cuz i know that the M1A1 hold an 1500Hp...but as you said now i know why the T-72 don't need such huge HP.

M1A1 uses gas-turbine engine.. :)



Still - the Merkava mark4 kick T-72/80/90 ass.. :bash:

Just kidding..don't start a flame war. :hug:

On some fields it does, on other it doesnt..

Merkava beast those with KE rounds on kill distance, but in turn.. T:s have Gun lauched ATGM:s operational so they would have the first shot in desert war.. ;)

[UoUo]

Its the torque that matters on tank motor.. not total hp.. :) speed is secondary, protection and fire power is vital, like in merkava.. ;)

Ha..i see...cuz i know that the M1A1 hold an 1500Hp...but as you said now i know why the T-72 don't need such huge HP.


Still - the Merkava mark4 kick T-72/80/90 ass.. :bash:

Just kidding..don't start a flame war. :hug:

No flame war. This was not checked yet :) :)

And hope so it will never be. :D

I mean....Russia and israel will never fight...they don't have what for.

And i don't know if the arabs hold the T-80/90 tanks.

[Uninen]

And i don't know if the arabs hold the T-80/90 tanks.

Some Gulf States i think have T-90s.. But i could be wrong..

Ifo about T-90:
http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov/Tanks/MBT/t-90.html

On these pages theres lots of info about all new Russian MBTs..

[UoUo]

Hey ! the merkava also can lunch a ATGM rockets.

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/anti-armor/lahat/LAHAT.html

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/anti-armor/lahat/lahat_at.JPG


woot

[Uninen]

I know.. the site, (Israeli weapons..) is very dear for me.. ;) However, this 'Merkavas ATGM rocket' isnt operational.. Soviets / Russians have had Gun launched ATGM:s for dechades.. :) And they keep updating their all the time.. :)

(Btw, you can lose that word rocket from it, as rocket is something unguided, and ATGM = Anti Tank Guided Missile.. and thats what it is.. ;) )

[UoUo]

I know.. the site, (Israeli weapons..) is very dear for me.. ;) However, this 'Merkavas ATGM rocket' isnt operational.. Soviets / Russians have had Gun launched ATGM:s for dechades.. :) And they keep updating their all the time.. :)

(Btw, you can lose that word rocket from it, as rocket is something unguided, and ATGM = Anti Tank Guided Missile.. and thats what it is.. ;) )

Hmm...i think it is operational..we sell some to india...hm..i hope Javehn

Can say more about this missile.

And thanks for the correct me.

[mustamato]

hmm...you know what? 6 days...that all the time that the USA need to defeat you.

Based on what?

[Ratamacue]

Now that funny.. :lol: The people here hate USA for what it has done since 911, like in every nation on the earth.

Politics is something unreal, and reality is very different. :cantbeli:

Yeah, because you've lived and interacted with every country in the world, right?

Just wondering, but do you serve any purpose on this forum other than to bash the US?

[Operation Ivy]

After that US is stuck with M1, while Russia has got T-80, T-90 and is about to get now new generation MBT in form of BE or T-95 or even both

yup the Abrams is a piece of crap compared to the T-80 and up :roll:

[RuSoKaR]

Well Abrams are not that bad, but it's really heavy, but it's really comfortable in there, not like in the T-series :roll:
They even have a bio-toilet :cantbeli:
But as Russia generals may say, soldier should not sit on the toilet during the battle. ;)

[Uninen]

So that why American tankers never crap their pants? They have a toilet.. :lol:

Ratamacue,

My purpose is learn, and teach others about things i master, i wasnt the one that started this whole bashing thing..

Nor that i would want to continue talking about that BS either.. i just wanted to share that video.. :|

[Dalleer]

hmm...you know what? 6 days...that all the time that the USA need to defeat you.

Heh heh, you really think that a small army with a long guerilla-warfare based training methods are going to just lay down their rifles and perhaps knock down a few Runeberg statues while shouting "I love the USA" ?

No damn way, my good man.

There'd be no "opposition parties" to bribe into combat towards it's own government, and there'd be no "21 days" to Bagdad campaigns. You'd have another guerilla war, with people trained and armed better than the Iraqis at this moment.

And for the record, how does the USA plan to start their offensive in this "what if"-scenario?

A long airbombing campaign, perhaps?

[Javehn]

It's all cool , Uni , don't mind . You bringing good **** here .
About the M1 with toilets , i find that very extremely hard to bellieve , and until i find , or someone will bring me picture of it , i call it a big bull**** . Until then , that's what the hellmets good for :(

[RuSoKaR]

I know it's hard to believ but I'll try to find some info.

[duck]

:cantbeli:

Uh, where is the whole point of this. Some paranoid individuals make up paranoid scenarios while their political leaders are happy to maintain a good relationship with the USA. Mustamato and Uninen must be members of some local militia.

[Uninen]

:cantbeli:

Mustamato and Uninen must be members of some local militia.

:lol:

Sorry,

There no such things here.. i just conspire by myself to oust (our?) corrupt and unpopular government.. maybe the USA will help me to do that?

rofl

(p.s. Im not all that sure that Mr.Mustamato is even a finn.. :| )

[mustamato]

Local miltia would be cool, is it those guys with the airsoft/paintbolls guns
that go to war every sunday defending freedom?!?!?!


(p.s. Im not all that sure that Mr.Mustamato is even a finn.. :| )

Ei voi aina olla, joskus vaan :)

[kinghk]

Local miltia would be cool, is it those guys with the airsoft/paintbolls guns
that go to war every sunday defending freedom?!?!?!


(p.s. Im not all that sure that Mr.Mustamato is even a finn.. :| )

Ei voi aina olla, joskus vaan :)

huva peiva

[Uninen]

Menee yli ymmärryksen, miten niin 'ei aina voi olla'.. :) Kaksois kansalaisuus? ;)

kinghk,

:) Nice singnature.. i like it :)

[RuSoKaR]

:cantbeli: There is no Finnish translator on the net :cantbeli:

[mustamato]

:cantbeli: There is no Finnish translator on the net :cantbeli:

Ah we are just discussing wether I´m a finn or not. And the answer is:

"Olen ruotsinsuomalainen, syntynyt Ruotsissa. Vanhemmat muutti kansallisuuden kun olin pieni. Ei ole kaksoiskansallisuutta (vielä), piti hakea joku kuukausi sitten mutta huomasin että se maksais 400 Euroa! Ja ei sellaisia rahoja löydy mistään, saan hankkia sen myöhemmin. Ja kun on ollut jo täällä armeijassa enemmän kun 6 kuukautta, minä en tarvi Suomen inttiin lähtee jos en halu. Jne."

I hope this cleared things up for you RuSoKaR, the answer was perhaps :)

[RuSoKaR]

with uninen's help I did

[cbreedon]

Here:

armouredbrigade.fi (http://www.armouredbrigade.fi/)

Check out the Multimedia section, as that the main page, full of all things nice and interesting..

Video from me:

In DIVX format,

The Armored Brigade of FDF Intro Video (save as) (http://personal.inet.fi/koti/uninen/uploads/Sekalaisii/The_Armored_Brigade_FDF_Intro_Video.avi)



Is it right that video has no sound? Or am I missing a codec?

PS quick arguing whether the US could beat Finland. The US isn't going to so what's the point?

[Uninen]

The US isn't going to so what's the point?

:hug: woot

(Bingo..)

And yes.. the video didnt have a sound.. as i made it out of a flash file.. had only annoying music, and its better without it..

;)

[Uninen]

Updated the ****, check the first post for some additional heavy metal! ;)

[Marmot1]

Unien don't worry they (US) always have few thousand spare FFH future-fallen-heroes so they can send them to finnland to die for democracy/fredom/oil/country/whatever you want/ and then they can build memorial cementary for them and occupy part of finnland (under cementary) forever :-) Sometimes is hard to tell ppl that wining is nothing comparing to occupying and you know and I know that occupying finland or poland or any other country in europe is pain in ass since occupaton force must be verry huge and loses would be also huge ask germans how many divisions they had in poland durring 2wwar even when front line was 500 away... and how many soldiers per hour they were lossing during the whole war...

here is map of warsaw and military actions against occupant only in center of city in 7 months period of 1944.. at the 5th year of occupation when there was terror on streats and ppl were executed in retaliation...
http://wilk.wpk.p.lodz.pl/~whatfor/aa1/akcje_plan_bt.gif

[Dalleer]

huva peiva

Mitä sinä sanoa, eh?

[mustamato]

here is map of warsaw and military actions against occupant only in center of city in 7 months period of 1944.. at the 5th year of occupation when there was terror on streats and ppl were executed in retaliation...
http://wilk.wpk.p.lodz.pl/~whatfor/aa1/akcje_plan_bt.gif

Yes. In urban areas it can´t be easy to be occupier. Especially not to be a american occupier today since they can´t threaten to kill 10 civilians for every soldier that gets killed. Personally I live close to Copenhagen, even though the danes didn´t resist the occupation as much as the poles (probably since the germans were not as nasty against the danes) there was resistance movements in Copenhagen as well.

And sadly also danish terror-movements working with the germans against the danish, such as Brøndum-ligan that killed and blew up the housed of the people openly resisting the germans. And of course all the collaborators. The collaborators are always a great danger. I guess it happened everywhere where danish (resistance) killed danes (collaborators and traitors). But when it happens in Iraq today that Iraqi resistance kills collaborators and traitors some people are sooo schocked :roll: I´m sure that also the polish collaborators got what they deserved.

http://www.oresundstid.dk/dansk/svensk/oresundstid/1940-45/billeder/05-01.jpg
Sabotage against german military train transport by KOPA, that was
a communistic resistance movement, actually many of the danish resistance
movements where very close to start fighting each other, in contrast in
example BOPA was right-wing.

http://www.oresundstid.dk/dansk/svensk/oresundstid/1940-45/billeder/11-05.jpg
Danish resistance home-made armoured truck :)

http://www.oresundstid.dk/dansk/svensk/oresundstid/1940-45/billeder/11-04.jpg
The armoured truck was used in a firefight with Lorentzon-ligan,
danish collaborators, MG fire from the truck killed three in the gang

http://www.oresundstid.dk/dansk/svensk/oresundstid/1940-45/billeder/05-13.jpg
Collaborators Kaj Bothilsen-Nielsen and Henning Bröndum was part in
the murder of over 150 danes during the war. After the war they were
executed.

http://www.oresundstid.dk/dansk/svensk/oresundstid/1940-45/billeder/11-12.jpg
Gestapo HQ in Helsingør, when the resistance took over the HQ, they
placed collaborators and other people there

http://www.oresundstid.dk/dansk/svensk/oresundstid/1940-45/billeder/11-11.jpg
Resistance roadblock, note the submachine gun, probably danish "home-made" Sten

http://www.oresundstid.dk/dansk/svensk/oresundstid/1940-45/billeder/10-08.jpg
Resistance light MG Madsen, this was the first light MG in use, it was
used by the russians already before world war 1 in the Russo-Japanese war

http://www.oresundstid.dk/dansk/svensk/oresundstid/1940-45/billeder/09-16.jpg
A danish brigade equipped and trained by Sweden shipped over to Denmark
after german capitulation. If in example Finland would be occupied today I´m
quite confident in that there would be a lot of volunteer brigades abroad

http://www.oresundstid.dk/dansk/svensk/oresundstid/1940-45/billeder/10-09.jpg
The 5000 soldiers in the danish brigade shipped over from Helsingborg,
Sweden to Helsingør, Denmark. Note how close Helsingør is, you can see
it on the other side.

http://www.oresundstid.dk/dansk/svensk/oresundstid/1940-45/billeder/09-17.jpg
Danish brigade commander, note that the swedish m/37 helmet still seems
to have the three swedish crowns on it. In Copenhagen three of the soldiers
in the brigade was killed by snipers from the Hipo-movement, danish collaborators.

[Herrmannek]

I´m sure that also the polish collaborators got what they deserved.
Yes...But before they were executed they were court martialed, ussualy extramural, but still. We are proud that our official resitance(called AK*) was orginised and disciplined. This was whole undergorund country with schools, hospitals, fabrics, courts and such.

*There were also Bataliony Chlopskie(Farmers Batalions) directed by communists, and few smaller organisations(often mob alike) but they hadn't suport of our goverment in England and were eliminated literaly and in more civilised methods from the scene, as they were doing more harm than good.

[Marmot1]

1.I.1941 - 30.VI.1944.
damaged locomotives 6.930
locomotives held out in repair beyond necesary time 803
derailed trains 732
trains burned 443
damaged rail cars 19.058
damaged power lines Warszawa 638
destroyed military cars 526
rail bridges blown up (usualy with train :-) ) 38
destroyed planes (on ground) 28
fuel vats set afire 1.167
aditionaly tons of fuel destroyed 4.674
damaged oil rigs (:-) yep we have some in poland also) 3
military warehouses burned 122
military food depots burned 8
factories that for a longer time stoped becouse of sabotage 7
defective air engines produced (he he have a nice flight luftwaffe) 4.710
defective barrels produced 203
defective artilery rounds produced 92.000
defective air radios produced 107

Not bad for 4,5 years... and in adition
5437 germans executed (planned executions of officials, officers,policemans, civil workers etc.
note executions were limited to necesity since for every german 10 poles were executed... and only necesery executions were performed.

here very large galery of warsaw during uprising in 1944
http://wilk.wpk.p.lodz.pl/~whatfor/kris1.htm

[Marmot1]

I´m sure that also the polish collaborators got what they deserved.
Yes...But before they were executed they were court martialed, ussualy extramural, but still. We are proud that our official resitance(called AK*) was orginised and disciplined. This was whole undergorund country with schools, hospitals, fabrics, courts and such.

*There were also Bataliony Chlopskie(Farmers Batalions) directed by communists, and few smaller organisations(often mob alike) but they hadn't suport of our goverment in England and were eliminated literaly and in more civilised methods from the scene, as they were doing more harm than good.

Batliony Chłopskie - BK led by communists??? wtf GL - Gwardia Ludowa (Peoples Guards) wer run by comunist BK was a military wing of what we can call today PSL Polish Peasants Movement and in 1943 they were incorporated in Home Army... or at least 50 000 of them rest 50 000 was ndependent from home army but stil obeyed goverment on exile orders...

[Herrmannek]

I´m sure that also the polish collaborators got what they deserved.
Yes...But before they were executed they were court martialed, ussualy extramural, but still. We are proud that our official resitance(called AK*) was orginised and disciplined. This was whole undergorund country with schools, hospitals, fabrics, courts and such.

*There were also Bataliony Chlopskie(Farmers Batalions) directed by communists, and few smaller organisations(often mob alike) but they hadn't suport of our goverment in England and were eliminated literaly and in more civilised methods from the scene, as they were doing more harm than good.

Batliony Chłopskie - BK led by communists??? wtf GL - Gwardia Ludowa (Peoples Guards) wer run by comunist BK was a military wing of what we can call today PSL Polish Peasants Movement and in 1943 they were incorporated in Home Army... or at least 50 000 of them rest 50 000 was ndependent from home army but stil obeyed goverment on exile orders...
Forgive me :), I have exam tomorow and I was thinkig about something else when was writing it...

[Hannu_K2]

Lipponen described Bush as direct and open. "I told him how much we in Finland appreciate his leadership, when the question is one of very difficult global challenges", Lipponen said"

Now that funny.. :lol: The people here hate USA for what it has done since 911, like in every nation on the earth.

Politics is something unreal, and reality is very different. :cantbeli:

Hmm lapsellista.

Uskotko todella että me kaikki Suomalaiset inhoamme USA:ta? Missä paikassa sinä oikein vietät päiväsi? Hivenen alkaa kyllästyttämään sinun asenne koska mitään järkevää poliittista juttua sinulla ei tunnu olevan. Paskaa kyllä osaat jauhaa, se täytyy myöntää.

[mustamato]

Hmm lapsellista.

Uskotko todella että me kaikki Suomalaiset inhoamme USA:ta? Missä paikassa sinä oikein vietät päiväsi? Hivenen alkaa kyllästyttämään sinun asenne koska mitään järkevää poliittista juttua sinulla ei tunnu olevan. Paskaa kyllä osaat jauhaa, se täytyy myöntää.

Since this is a non-finnish forum I take it in english:

Maybe because this isn´t a political forum? And I don´t think most finns or swedes
hates US, we don´t because so much of our culture is influenced from the
american one nowadays, we watch american movies and so forth. I rather
think that Uninen was talking about what people think of US foreign policy,
and especially this "war on terrorism". Don´t forget that Jäätteenmäki had
to resign because of a lie where she accused Lipponen of supporting the war,
that says a bit, that she could gain some extra votes just because of that lie.

[Kingpin]

:) It is very interesting to read about resistance in Warsaw during WW2 in thread about Finnish armor :)

[mustamato]

:) It is very interesting to read about resistance in Warsaw during WW2 in thread about Finnish armor :)

Yeah. It´s all about wether US could crush Finland in 24 hours or not. I (and
many others) say no because of the resistance and guerilla war that would
follow a obvious occupation. It´s all hypotethical of course, but this with
collaborators and resistance movement have been seen during world war 2, and
is seen in places like Iraq today. So "24 hours" is just so bull**** that it has to
be debated. Or something.

I think Hannu_2k would be a collaborator if US occupied Finland (just kidding Hannu) ;)

[Dalleer]

http://www.oresundstid.dk/dansk/svensk/oresundstid/1940-45/billeder/11-05.jpg

Haa, that has to be the coolest pair of armored cars I've seen so far!

"Frit Danmark"

http://www.oresundstid.dk/dansk/svensk/oresundstid/1940-45/billeder/11-11.jpg

I've seen those helmets before, on a book which offered a very detailed view on the various individual countries' uniforms during WWII.

[Uninen]

Hmm lapsellista.

Uskotko todella että me kaikki Suomalaiset inhoamme USA:ta? Missä paikassa sinä oikein vietät päiväsi? Hivenen alkaa kyllästyttämään sinun asenne koska mitään järkevää poliittista juttua sinulla ei tunnu olevan. Paskaa kyllä osaat jauhaa, se täytyy myöntää.

Uhm..

Well all i can say to you is this:

If you live in any other place than some 'elite' neighborhood in Helsinki, you would know that the people have got enough for this BS for war against terror, and especially of the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq..

(I did say that we hate you for what you have done.. i didnt say: we hate you.)

Wake up from your American day dream.. :)

If the ever was a evil empire, well.. you know what they say.. right? :)

http://www.hermes-press.com/bush_evil.jpg

;)

[Uninen]

I think Hannu_2k would be a collaborator if US occupied Finland (just kidding Hannu) ;)

:roll: Kidding? I think not.. He would be proud member of American sponsored Police or Army of Free Finland.. :cantbeli:

[Jack Mehoff]

Too many Saddam loving bitches in this thread

[Kingpin]

Too many Saddam loving bitches in this thread

No, too low Bush loving bitches in this thread :)
Pimpin' ain't easy? :)

[Jack Mehoff]

I rather be Bush's bitch than Saddam's bitch.

[mustamato]

I rather be Bush's bitch than Saddam's bitch.

And soon you will be Kerrys bitch :)

[Kingpin]

I rather be Bush's bitch than Saddam's bitch.

Active or passive? :)

[Kaos]

I rather be Bush's bitch than Saddam's bitch.
What's the difference????
:roll:

[Uninen]

:roll: Nice to see that you guys discuss my posted armor vids.. as i recall, there i 4 of them.. :)

[mustamato]

http://personal.inet.fi/koti/uninen/uploads/Sekalaisii/The_Armored_Brigade_FDF_Intro_Video_frame_1955.jpg
Firing AT-5 Konkurs ATGM.

Well, one thing to discuss, is that a AT-5 Konkurs? Isn´t it rather a AT-4 Spigot?
Hm, or atleast AT-5 Spandrel and not Konkurs?

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/at5spandrel.jpg
PstOhj 82

http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/pkymasehist/mes03_13.jpg
PstOhj 82´s missile

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/mes03_13.jpg
PstOhj 82´s missile cut open, in launching tube

Note the difference on the ATGM´s on BMP-1PS and the BMP-2

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/bmp1ps.jpg
AT-4?

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/bmp2.jpg
Definitively AT-5

[bison]

is the us planning a counter to the new russian tanks? or that chinese leviathan? just wondering.

[Operation Ivy]

im sure were on top of that,u cant hide any new cool ideas anymore :(

[Uninen]

mustamato,

PstOhj 82 is AT-5, and its used on Finnish BMP-2s and 1s, in addition of that orginal ground launcher.. WE HAVE NO AT-4!!!

Also AT-5s REAL NAME IS KONKURS, i dont give a **** about those NATO names.. :)

[Uninen]

Note the difference on the ATGM´s on BMP-1PS and the BMP-2


Theres a difference because:

BMP-2s came with that launcher, BMP-1s (BMP-1s came with AT-3 Swatter launcher, which was removed..) did not, and to these ordinary infranty launcher were mounted.. almost as whole.. with no or little modifications to it.. :)

[serbian boy]

you guys don't pay attention to Wacko Jacko Mehoff from redneckville,USA. the only reason he supports bush is probably because of some family inter marrying connection! :hug:
Lets just talk about armor alright? woot
It's okay Wacko Jacko the elections will be quick and painless,it'll be okay :petting:

[Uninen]

Nobody is paying attention to Mr. Jack off.. :lol: You shouldnt either.. evil spirits dont show themself, unless called upon.. ;)

[stuntman]

Hmm lapsellista.

Uskotko todella että me kaikki Suomalaiset inhoamme USA:ta? Missä paikassa sinä oikein vietät päiväsi? Hivenen alkaa kyllästyttämään sinun asenne koska mitään järkevää poliittista juttua sinulla ei tunnu olevan. Paskaa kyllä osaat jauhaa, se täytyy myöntää.

Uhm..

Well all i can say to you is this:

If you live in any other place than some 'elite' neighborhood in Helsinki, you would know that the people have got enough for this BS for war against terror, and especially of the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq..

(I did say that we hate you for what you have done.. i didnt say: we hate you.)

Wake up from your American day dream.. :)

If the ever was a evil empire, well.. you know what they say.. right? :)

http://www.hermes-press.com/bush_evil.jpg

;)
Do you seriously hate bush that much? It so funny I love it when ever I see anti American sentiment and protestors wearing nike's and levis and **** wile chanting we hate America ! Sometimes I think you guys are mad that the US single handedly defeated the nazi's. It so funny when I read crap like "Russia can beat USA" ????? Are you kidding me ?????????????? Russia at one time was great but always lagged behind in technology, this is a known fact.
Look the russians and the chinease are finnally catching up in new mbt but think about how long we (western nations) have had our mbt! So just understand that America can take you or any of your sadam loving friends you dirty little nazi Colaberators.. I must ad that if you guys continue to acted up we will stop suporting your puppet government and the invasion will really start! And Ivy's tanks can lead the way! But the m1a2 sucks so I guess it should be easy right??????????? yeah ok keep dreaming you russian wannabies pillow bitting rino **** eating bad whole rippers!
bye!

[Uninen]

Sometimes I think you guys are mad that the US single handedly defeated the nazi's.

USA? rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Note: That pic is American mask man, and the pic is taken in US i belive.. :slap:

[Kingpin]

stuntman,

I don't wear anything american and don't use anything american except Intel Pentium inside my computer and good old iPaq (in 2001 there wasn't any Russian made alternatives).

Can you give me permission to hate Bush? :) :)


US single handedly defeated the nazi's

:) Good joke. Now go read history books.

[Hannu_K2]

Uhm..
Well all i can say to you is this:
If you live in any other place than some 'elite' neighborhood in Helsinki, you would know that the people have got enough for this BS for war against terror, and especially of the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq..


Well what can I say? You are so all knowing that I bow before you.
All Hail Uninen!



(I did say that we hate you for what you have done.. i didnt say: we hate you.)

Wake up from your American day dream.. :)


Thanks for wakeup call. I feel so refreshed when meeting assholes like you. And no I'm not dreaming America but I'm not bashing them without
sound reasons.



If the ever was a evil empire, well.. you know what they say.. right? :)

http://www.hermes-press.com/bush_evil.jpg

;)

Yep. The Evil Axis (TM). Cool. :roll:

[stuntman]

stuntman,

I don't wear anything american and don't use anything american except Intel Pentium inside my computer and good old iPaq (in 2001 there wasn't any Russian made alternatives).

Can you give me permission to hate Bush? :) :)


US single handedly defeated the nazi's

:) Good joke. Now go read history books.

look I understand that the russians were there but come on it wasn't your superior tactics that turned the tide it was other things like mother nature oh yea and her son the United States of America! Digging in and hopeing that (lucky for the russians) the winter would help is not how real wars are won! Ok so yes again we (USA) single handedly won the war. And I haven't forgotten about our Allies niether you know who you are. You can hate bush all you want because although I support him he is still a polititian!
And if you don't wear anything American that is impossible! Then what do you wear? Russian mock ups? And dont forget there will never be any russian pc chips, because russians lack the know how when it comes with technology. being in space first was luck, that sputnik was a fake I read that somewhere, and everybody knows the ak was copied from the nazis so gravitate around that!


I understand that he may be from USA but it just reminded me of photos of people burning US or Isreali flag wile wearing nikes or something of our coulture.
And by the way the finnish copy of the Ak is a weak and unsound gun I have fired it and it's very heavy and unaccurate, not modular and jams alot. Even the chinease norinco version is sounder, Think about that!

[Kingpin]

Thanks for wakeup call. I feel so refreshed when meeting assholes like you. And no I'm not dreaming America but I'm not bashing them without
sound reasons.
Yep. The Evil Axis (TM). Cool. :roll:

Argh! I'm in waiting of good flame fight here. C'mon boys. Go-go-go!

[Kaos]

As someone said before, try to read some books (If you can), sometime...
"Digging in and hopeing that (lucky for the russians) the winter would help is not how real wars are won! "
Did you ever hear something about Kursk? It's only an exemple.
Is your Vietnam war allready forgotten?

[Hannu_K2]

I think Hannu_2k would be a collaborator if US occupied Finland (just kidding Hannu) ;)

:roll: Kidding? I think not.. He would be proud member of American sponsored Police or Army of Free Finland.. :cantbeli:

Did I say I wanted US sponsored "anything" here in Finland? I just wanted to know why you bash US so eagerly without sound reasons? When reading your posts its like you know all about USA and not even try to think or question if it fits your USA = BAD thinking.

[stuntman]

As someone said before, try to read some books (If you can), sometime...
"Digging in and hopeing that (lucky for the russians) the winter would help is not how real wars are won! "
Did you ever hear something about Kursk? It's only an exemple.
Is your Vietnam war allready forgotten?

We didnt lose that war soundly like you were soundly defeated in Afghanstan!
And kursk, what about it ? It wasn't again a sound win do you have any idea how many casualties you guys had during your so called kursk?

But I do give credit for how you handled Berlin again your death rate rediculous but I have read "The Fall of Berlin" by Antony Beevor and it's a good read on the hearts of the russian fighters. I mean after 14million dead you guys finnaly catch up but only because russia is closer!

[Kingpin]

stuntman,

I don't wear anything american and don't use anything american except Intel Pentium inside my computer and good old iPaq (in 2001 there wasn't any Russian made alternatives).

Can you give me permission to hate Bush? :) :)


US single handedly defeated the nazi's

:) Good joke. Now go read history books.

look I understand that the russians were there but come on it wasn't your superior tactics that turned the tide it was other things like mother nature oh yea and her son the United States of America! Digging in and hopeing that (lucky for the russians) the winter would help is not how real wars are won! Ok so yes again we (USA) single handedly won the war. And I haven't forgotten about our Allies niether you know who you are. You can hate bush all you want because although I support him he is still a polititian!
And if you don't wear anything American that is impossible! Then what do you wear? Russian mock ups? And dont forget there will never be any russian pc chips, because russians lack the know how when it comes with technology. being in space first was luck, that sputnik was a fake I read that somewhere, and everybody knows the ak was copied from the nazis so gravitate around that!


You forgot Ardennes? We paid a lot of lives of our soldiers to save american asses there (we started unprepared offensive to ease things on western front).

Opinion about winter originating from nazi bastards lived in US after war. Well, that's true that nazi wasn't prepared good enough for winter warfare but it doesn't means that it was impossible for them to stay in defence positions for whole winter. But they failed even for this.

Yes Soviet army had heavy losses almost in many battles during WW2 but
1.not in all
2.it doesn't means army was weak.

I wear Russian and Chinese made clothes. I use Japanese, Korean and Russian built electronics. Well actually inside them can be found something like Motorolla chip but it doesn't mean that Japan or China (or Russia if someone does this investment) can't produce such things by itself.

Russia produced a lot of different electronics. Very advanced but mostly of military use. Most of supercomputers in Russia (all in world top list by performance) made of russian components. Why they haven't wide use by end customers? They incompatible with commercial software. Only with specialized one.

Now Russian companies producing a lot of different high tech: LCD displays, mp3 dvd players, different microprocessors, PC components of own design (production of PC things though mostly placed in Chinese factories)

[wreck]

I think Hannu_2k would be a collaborator if US occupied Finland (just kidding Hannu) ;)

:roll: Kidding? I think not.. He would be proud member of American sponsored Police or Army of Free Finland.. :cantbeli:

Did I say I wanted US sponsored "anything" here in Finland? I just wanted to know why you bash US so eagerly without sound reasons? When reading your posts its like you know all about USA and not even try to think or question if it fits your USA = BAD thinking.
Way to go Hannu, nice work with killing the finnish "spirit" with just few posts. Damn that kind of morons make my blood boil. If you have nothing else to say than argue about other peoples views, then please stay out of these forums. We have plenty of trolls already.

Suomeksi: Painu vittuun täältä jos et osaa muuta kuin lapsellisesti vääntää tosta USA-muu maailma jutusta.

[radon]

stuntman,

I don't wear anything american and don't use anything american except Intel Pentium inside my computer and good old iPaq (in 2001 there wasn't any Russian made alternatives).

Can you give me permission to hate Bush? :) :)


US single handedly defeated the nazi's

:) Good joke. Now go read history books.

look I understand that the russians were there but come on it wasn't your superior tactics that turned the tide it was other things like mother nature oh yea and her son the United States of America! Digging in and hopeing that (lucky for the russians) the winter would help is not how real wars are won! Ok so yes again we (USA) single handedly won the war. And I haven't forgotten about our Allies niether you know who you are. You can hate bush all you want because although I support him he is still a polititian!
And if you don't wear anything American that is impossible! Then what do you wear? Russian mock ups? And dont forget there will never be any russian pc chips, because russians lack the know how when it comes with technology. being in space first was luck, that sputnik was a fake I read that somewhere, and everybody knows the ak was copied from the nazis so gravitate around that!

Even if Ak and stg44 look the same , that doesent mean they are the same. And influences always exist, but saying ak is a german design is false. Usa won the war (the atlantic helps alot) but they did absolutely not singelhandledly win the nazis. Most of the nazis were on the eastern front remember.

Every time a American who says "We and only we defeated the nazis" , there is a failure in education. And i dont automatically mean you with this.

[Kingpin]

stuntman

And yes, bears still walking along our streets...

Watch it
http://www.rolsen.ru/
http://www.iru.ru/
http://www.roverbook.ru/
http://www.roverscan.ru/
http://www.sitronics.ru/products/
http://www.formoza.ru/products/motherboards/list/
http://www.rubin.ru/version/ru/enode/page_1.html

and so on

[Kaos]

As someone said before, try to read some books (If you can), sometime...
"Digging in and hopeing that (lucky for the russians) the winter would help is not how real wars are won! "
Did you ever hear something about Kursk? It's only an exemple.
Is your Vietnam war allready forgotten?

We didnt lose that war soundly like you were soundly defeated in Afghanstan!
And kursk, what about it ? It wasn't again a sound win do you have any idea how many casualties you guys had during your so called kursk?

But I do give credit for how you handled Berlin again your death rate rediculous but I have read "The Fall of Berlin" by Antony Beevor and it's a good read on the hearts of the russian fighters. I mean after 14million dead you guys finnaly catch up but only because russia is closer!
Don't be stupid!!!
If you start talking about casualties, how can you forgot Vietnam??? And Irak, now????
Try to get your ideas together before posting, it would be better if we want to discuss about them.

[mustamato]

mustamato,

PstOhj 82 is AT-5, and its used on Finnish BMP-2s and 1s, in addition of that orginal ground launcher.. WE HAVE NO AT-4!!!

Also AT-5s REAL NAME IS KONKURS, i dont give a f*** about those NATO names.. :)

http://www.mphelsinki.net/t160390-3.html

"Pstohj 82 = 9K111 Fagot=AT-4 Spigot -> ohjus 120mm, kant.2000m/läp. 460-480 mm
PPtohj 82M = 9M113 Konkurs=AT-5 Spandrel -> ohjus 135mm,
kant.4000m/läp.650mm Näillä kahdella on sama ampumalaite ja NL
valmistetta."

So if I understand it correctly there is a "M" in the designation of the
PstOhj 82´s on the AT-5´s. So the 82´s without a M are AT-4´s. In
addition I get catched up on this

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/at5spandrel.htm

"Unlike the SPIGOT the SPANDREL is intended for use on vehicles only...
...SPANDREL missile is considerably heavier... ...missile weight more than 25 kg

But on the other hand I guess this solves the case:

"Viimeiset Fagotit eli perus-82:t muuten ammuskeltiin Suomessa pois jo
osittain vanhentuneina viime vuosituhannen lopulla, eli niitä ei enää pitäisi
varastoissa olla."

So the ones used on the manportable PstOhj 82M´s are AT-5´s, but the
missiles are quite heavy, 25+ kg compared to half the weight of a AT-4
missile. So I guess they don´t deploy that long from their vehicle, <500 m.

[mustamato]

And by the way the finnish copy of the Ak is a weak and unsound gun I have fired it and it's very heavy and unaccurate, not modular and jams alot. Even the chinease norinco version is sounder, Think about that!

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/varusmies_fiilis2.jpg
"unaccurate, not modular and jams alot"

You know, you just make a ass of yourself when you make things up in
your wild imagination? Since when does a Kalashnikov-type jam a lot?
And you think that the milled receivers and high quality parts of a finnish
RK makes it break easier than a all-stamped Norinco? And since when
(see pic) can a Kalashnikov not be modular? God damn it boy, if you must
lie, then atleast try to be a bit classy. Check this site out and actually learn
something, it´s created by a american as well:

http://www.valmet-weapons.com/

"Valmet weapons originated in Finland, a country who has fought
numerous tough wars, in one of nature's harshest climates. The Finns
developed the Valmet rifle to operate reliably in this environment. The
result is one of the world's best weapons."

[Uninen]

Mustamato,

http://www.students.tut.fi/~satama/kpst.html

That AT-4/5 ground laucher takes both missiles.. just like the BMP-2s launcher, and also.. like i said we have no AT-4.. ;) (Not anymore.. that is..)

http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/pkymasehist/mes03_24.jpg
Kevyt sinko 55 S 55 :)

Funny how these are supposedly WFU.. i saw thewse on a armory.. as i saw also KP 31s also.. :) Maybe the regular force officers kept some for their own use? :)

Oh and this book i have, "Suomen Sotavarustus".. says that PSTOHJ 82 (Fagot/Konkurs) can be launched from both, from vehicle launcher, and from infranty mount.. ;) (Its SA-Publication, so it think that they know from what about they are talking about.. :) )

[Uninen]

wreck,

Was you talking about me when you said "moron"?

:cantbeli:

[TriggerPuller]

wreck,

Was you talking about me when you said "moron"?

:cantbeli:No but I did **** for brains!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bring it on anytime you want...tough guy!

TP

[Uninen]

:lol:

You really dont want that.. trust me.. ;)

Nor that i have nothing against you, so your safe.. can you people just start to concentrate on the god damn vids? :)

Or save your ****, cause i really aint interested.. :cantbeli:

[Rtq]

You yankees just don´t know when to zip it? :fork:

Even you have the greates army in the world, it doesn´t mean that you own the world. I bet that there are nice people in the USA, but evidently there are also loads of arrogant people too.

I wouldn´t be so sure about, how fast you can occupy finland, because the terrain here isn´t like in Iraq, so the "blitzkrieg" won´t work. (sorry for the typos :D )

[Maine Finn]

whoop american ass ? How because we lose one or two daily? How long would mustardland (finland) last in Iraq? Any ways we could run over your asses in a heartbeat and yes I might be military but If I tell you I would have to kill you..
ANd russian vodka is better!

Yeah, the ignorance of some American males has yet to cease to amuse me. You go right ahead and "declare" war on the Finns... you'll succeed only in pissing off a whole lot of Finns, over in "mustardland", as well as in America here. You would be surprised at the number of Finnish-Americans there are, I think. I also think that, despite the great deal of cold-weather training and experience of Finnish units, they would adapt quickly if such was expected of them, and they’d do their jobs regardless of any losses (“one or two daily”, which does tend to add up after awhile.) Why? Because we Finns have something called sisu. And yes, I’m being pro-Finnish because I am Finnish. Slam me for that if you want, I’m used to that sort of ignorance.

Ever heard of the Finn temper? A lot of us have it. It makes us ****e to defending ourselves and, quite often, our country and culture, from the ignorance of others who believe in their own supposed godliness. I once busted someone's nose for calling me a Lapp.... so maybe this is a topic you would be best served in avoiding. I would hate to see anybody flamed too hard for carrying on with their arrogant assumptions.

By the way, minun ystävä, I would like to point out that not all greatness is determined by direct, head-to-head confrontation and overt warfare. Sometimes subtlety wins more favour and renown than larger shows of force. (May I draw your attention to the Winter War of 30 November 1939 - 13 March 1940. Even though the Finns lost, they earned a well-deserved reputation for courage and skill in combat.)

Never had Finlandia vodka, then, I take it. Don’t know what you’re missing.

[Dalleer]

Maine Finn, you speak the word.

[Kingpin]

My respect to our northern neighbours :)

[duck]

The strangest thing about this thread is how some paranoid left-wing people first develop visions of a war between the USA and Finland and then accuse others of doing so.

The relationship between the two nations is as sound as ever and that will not change because of three fanatics on a web board.

[mustamato]

The strangest thing about this thread is how some paranoid left-wing people first develop visions of a war between the USA and Finland and then accuse others of doing so.

The relationship between the two nations is as sound as ever and that will not change because of three fanatics on a web board.

Or maybe you should learn to actually read whole post. And who knows,
maybe some day CIA makes up that Usama lives in Finland or oil is found,
then I don´t think the good relationship will last very long :) The discussion
was just theoretical and nothing else, not even hypothetical.

Btw, Finlands first female prime minister had to resign because she had lied
about her oponnent supporting the US-led war against Iraq, and thus gaining
some extra votes. Well, so that´s how things are. "The relationship is as sound
as ever". Yep.

[duck]

Stop hallucinating. Foreign Policy is more steadfast than pre-election mudslinging. Shouldn't you be more interested in anti-American Swedish politicians anyway?

[stuntman]

The strangest thing about this thread is how some paranoid left-wing people first develop visions of a war between the USA and Finland and then accuse others of doing so.

The relationship between the two nations is as sound as ever and that will not change because of three fanatics on a web board.

Or maybe you should learn to actually read whole post. And who knows,
maybe some day CIA makes up that Usama lives in Finland or oil is found,
then I don´t think the good relationship will last very long :) The discussion
was just theoretical and nothing else, not even hypothetical.

Btw, Finlands first female prime minister had to resign because she had lied
about her oponnent supporting the US-led war against Iraq, and thus gaining
some extra votes. Well, so that´s how things are. "The relationship is as sound
as ever". Yep.

Well mustardman do you have any idea why she was removed? I mean the circumstances? Well put it this way, what ever we told your boy Kadafi we told the finns. "Remove her or else face the consequences" And again American will comes on top! And I stand by what I say about the Finn rifle! Modulation makes the gun 3 times more expencive for your military and it requires training to use most nvg or tactical pieces. And finns are known to be incapable of using SPECIAL Equipment! So again understand that I am correct again! Please stop because resistance is futile! :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:

[Maine Finn]

Well mustardman do you have any idea why she was removed? I mean the circumstances? Well put it this way, what ever we told your boy Kadafi we told the finns. "Remove her or else face the consequences" And again American will comes on top! And I stand by what I say about the Finn rifle! Modulation makes the gun 3 times more expencive for your military and it requires training to use most nvg or tactical pieces. And finns are known to be incapable of using SPECIAL Equipment! So again understand that I am correct again! Please stop because resistance is futile! :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:

Explain to me, if you would, what you mean by Finns are known to be incapable of using special equipment. I mean, what evidence/proof do you have that you can readily show that supports this? If you have no basis to make claims that are potentially slanderous, don't make them. It's called informed arguing. Most people (at least the people that I know) try to have something that backs up what they say so that is not just their opinion and nothing more. If you are bent on critising the Finns, (or anybody, for that matter) I only ask two things:

1.) That you have some form of evidence to support what you say, and that doesn't mean you can just say that somebody else told you so. Substance is crucial to a good criticism of anything.

2.) That you at least have the courtesy to spell and punctuate correctly. It makes your posts easier to read, which eliminates the possibility of being misunderstood. Also, do have the courtesy to write "Finns" instead of "finns". If your post is any indication of the quality of the education wherever you're from, I'm glad that I didn't receive my high school diploma from there.

At the very least, show respect when voicing your opinion, and I for one will do the same. There won't be any problems between you and I as long as there is some semblance of respect of different opinions. We're entitled to that, aren't we?

(And no, I'm not now nor have I been an English teacher. I just prefer clarity when reading someone else's posts.)

[Stavka]

Interesting how far from the pictures this discussion has strayed.
Starting off with pics and vids of the finnish armoured brigade it turns into an international ****-fest based on "My country kicks your countrys ass..." not seen since the days of the Cuban missilecrisis.

The thread has developed so far as to slaughtering the swedish armed forces, and here I have to intervene.

A little background on me as I'm new to posting here, have been following the threads for almlost a year though.
I performed my military service in the Swedish armoured brigade 00/01 as a mech.inf. signaleer, serving from a PBV302 (basically M113 with a souped-up gun). After my mandatory service I joined the Territorial Army where I serve to this day as a medic.

First off, the comparison of US vs (insert preferred scandinavian country here) is a complete mockery of common sense. The US military forces would clobber any armed response from sweden in an invasion-scenario where we see a hands-on fight army vs army. No question about it.
The swedish armed forces are primarily a defensive force euqipped and trained to maintain our territorial integrity within certain standards. The Swedish armed forces are in the process of redefining itself from an invasionbased defence (from the days when Ivan was a threat ;) ) to a QRF, Quick Reaction Force, optimized for contained operations in various scenarios.
Its possible that Mustamato or other swedes might dispute me here, and yes, we DO have excellent weapon-systems in the swedish armed forces, alot of them serve in armies all over the world simply because they are the best, but this is just a matter of numbers.

How about comparing tanks, just as a comparison. Our approximately 140 Leopards vs thousands of Yank tanks of varying makes, predominantly M1 Abrams and its cousins? The debate on which is the better tank is indeed futile, the 2 tanks mentioned can be considered more or less equal for the purposes of this comparison. But the numbers still stand. Lots vs few.

When it comes to the matter of soldiering quality we could go on for ages and ages. The Swedish Army trains good soldiers. End of discussion. Those of you that wish to dispute this, please feel free to do so, but make sure you take a number of things into account before running rampant over your keyboards. Such matters are military doctrine, culture, and geography.
Swedens military doctrine, and indeed basic cultural values, greatly differ from those of the US and Russia (which seem to be the main involved parties here). This reflects in the training of soldiers, choice of equipment, and type of intervention.
Just look at our geography to start with. Sweden is more or less covered with forest. Theres a ****load of trees over here, and lets not forget the unique, subarctic climate. Hell, even the US military sends their guys over here to learn arctic survival from, thats right, swedish instructors! Thats just one example.

I like to compare the US military to a big sledgehammer that can be used to smash any type of standing army. Face it, you guys have a massive fighting machine, but youre not all that good at post-sledgehammering management. Whereas Sweden lacks the firepower to march in and subdue an entire country within weeks, we are internationally acclaimed for conflictmanagement. Wanna dispute? Read up first...
Russias way of handling the Chechnya conflict is, in my opinion, different to the way the US would have gone about it, and certainly different from a swedish point of view. Im not saying that it is the wrong way of going about it, im just saying that the methods are different.

Furthermore, Swedish soldiers have an outstanding reputation on an international basis. Those of you that have served in any conflict-zone where there has been a swedish prescence surely will agree with this. I have confirmed information from several sources in the US military that this is indeed the fact. Swedish soldiers have served in several active conflict-zones, by active I mean in the middle of war. Those of you that do not believe this is true, read up on our history, and especially what SWEBAT did in Bosnia. Try googling for Stupni Do and Vares.

Id like to quote Anthony Lloyd, formerly a rifleman in the British army and a veteran of northern Ireland and Desert Storm. In his book ”My war gone by, I miss it so” the swedes are described like this:
”The men inside (the APC) might have been UN but they were playing by a completely different set of rules.
They were Swedes; in terms of individual intelligence, integrity and single-mindedness I was to find them among the most impressive soldiers I had ever encountered.
In Vares their moment had come.”
This quote relates to swedish soldiers refusing to let a number of towns be massacred by the UCK. In Vares SWEBAT held their own and more against great odds.
Among other active conflict-zones that Sweden has taken an active part in we find The Kongo (in the 60's), Kosovo, Macedonia, Afghanistan (yes, a swedish contingent is there at this moment), Somalia and in a few weeks Liberia will be added to that list. There are more areas, but these are what I can refer to straight away.

I guess what I want to say is that before all the mindless "my country is better than yours" bashing, posted frequently by people who most likely dont even have the age required for armed service, nor the mental fortitude and physical strength, lets take into account that a country just slightly larger than California and on another part of the world, might choose to do things differently.

btw, Mustamatos "A day in the life of a Swedish Soldier" type-of-thing, is quite inaccurate. A typical day starts off at 0600, ends at 1700? Nope. Every day is quite different, and i cant imagine in what ways they would differ greatly from a day in the life of any soldier.

Thats all from me. Impressive length on a first post eh? ;)

[Russian Texan]

A level-headed person is always a great addition to any discussion, welcome.

[khukuri]

Stavka, the best post until now.

Can we now go back to the finnish equipment topic. I find it rather interesting. Thanks for the vids uninen

[mustamato]

And finns are known to be incapable of using SPECIAL Equipment!

http://guns.connect.fi/gow/m92psotr.jpg
Pimp pimp (RK 95)

http://guns.connect.fi/gow/txshot.jpg
... and this man could probably hit you from the other side
of the Atlantic with his RK 62 given your big and dirty mouth :)


btw, Mustamatos "A day in the life of a Swedish Soldier" type-of-thing, is quite inaccurate. A typical day starts off at 0600, ends at 1700? Nope. Every day is quite different, and i cant imagine in what ways they would differ greatly from a day in the life of any soldier.

Thats all from me. Impressive length on a first post eh? ;)

Well, there was also a note that "no day is like the other" and that it probably
was different from unit to unit. In example a guard is serving 24/7 during a week or
whatever and then have training exercises/is free. A badass paratrooper is 24/7
him ass well, and there are those other duties that are just like a 8 hour day at
work probably. The 06-17 was a generalization of course.

[Uninen]

The strangest thing about this thread is how some paranoid left-wing people first develop visions of a war between the USA and Finland and then accuse others of doing so.

The relationship between the two nations is as sound as ever and that will not change because of three fanatics on a web board.

You call me a left-winger? rofl

(Last time i checked i did wote for right..) ;)

Any how, it was not me that started the BS, it was STUNTMAN that started to BASH our tactics and equipment, like he would know anything about it.. :fork:

[Uninen]

And finns are known to be incapable of using SPECIAL Equipment!

:roll: What the hell? rofl

Please clarify? Cause now you really dropped me.. :cantbeli:

[Dalleer]

Well, after these few messages that have surely given us all something to think about I have a few questions to anyone willing to answer them concerning the RK95 and it's magazines.

Now, I've read that the new (read: plastic) magazines used by the FDF are supposed to somehow "break apart" from a small button situated at the bottom of the magazine.

Now according to rumours these plastic magazines are supposed to "break apart" easier than the ones made out of metal ?

And I do mean, "breaking apart" in training conditions or perhaps even during "the real thing"...


I guess what I want to say is that before all the mindless "my country is better than yours" bashing, posted frequently by people who most likely dont even have the age required for armed service, nor the mental fortitude and physical strength

Aaww, every freakin' time someone posts something like that I automatically assume it's targeted on me...

But, let's get to the topic:

The problem with these "Country Y Vs. Country X" fights is always the fact that they tend to attract these sorts of people that have nothing else to say besides their funny theories of one's nationality being unable to use 'special equipment' and what else.

Now I even considered to make this thread about a hypothetical "Finland vs. Sweden" scenario like portrayed in the book "Operaatio Finlandia" but I think I'll skip it...

[mustamato]

Well, after these few messages that have surely given us all something to think about I have a few questions to anyone willing to answer them concerning the RK95 and it's magazines.

Now, I've read that the new (read: plastic) magazines used by the FDF are supposed to somehow "break apart" from a small button situated at the bottom of the magazine.

Now according to rumours these plastic magazines are supposed to "break apart" easier than the ones made out of metal ?

And I do mean, "breaking apart" in training conditions or perhaps even during "the real thing"...

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/P1010127.jpg

Hm, hard for me to say, but the "lips" seem to be quite good enough? That
what you are talking about is definitively one bad thing with the magazines
on the AK5. Happened to me several times that the bottom simple fell of
and wooosch the rounds fell of. Happened once during a live fire exercise
when I was running in a trench, the bottom of the magazine fell of. I
couldn´t exactly stop right then so I went back to look for the rounds and
the spring afterwards, one dude in my squad found the spring, about 10
meters from the trench in a bush.

[Dalleer]

Well, after these few messages that have surely given us all something to think about I have a few questions to anyone willing to answer them concerning the RK95 and it's magazines.

Now, I've read that the new (read: plastic) magazines used by the FDF are supposed to somehow "break apart" from a small button situated at the bottom of the magazine.

Now according to rumours these plastic magazines are supposed to "break apart" easier than the ones made out of metal ?

And I do mean, "breaking apart" in training conditions or perhaps even during "the real thing"...

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/P1010127.jpg

Hm, hard for me to say, but the "lips" seem to be quite good enough? That
what you are talking about is definitively one bad thing with the magazines
on the AK5. Happened to me several times that the bottom simple fell of
and wooosch the rounds fell of. Happened once during a live fire exercise
when I was running in a trench, the bottom of the magazine fell of. I
couldn´t exactly stop right then so I went back to look for the rounds and
the spring afterwards, one dude in my squad found the spring, about 10
meters from the trench in a bush.

Yeah, I've heard of similar stories as well but they were surely experiences with either the RK95 or the RK62 with the plastic magazines in em'

Now apparently, someone had accidentally hit the magazines bottom to a tree-branch (?) and the damn insides were all over the forest, so I guess he had trouble finding the spring as well...

But, I see you've got photos of the plastic magazines there, ever seen or heard about them "green plastic RK magazines" that I think can be obtained from various "SA-myymälä" shops around the country?

Surely would light up a collection, I'd say..

[mustamato]

But, I see you've got photos of the plastic magazines there, ever seen or heard about them "green plastic RK magazines" that I think can be obtained from various "SA-myymälä" shops around the country?

Surely would light up a collection, I'd say..

I don´t really know what colour they should have, the one I have is grey,
dark grey rather than black. I´m somewhat hooked up with that they are
black, and that my grey is some old "early issue" one. Never really seen
any green ones, but maybe those in the SA-shops are grey/black magazines
that someone stored in a lot of humidity, so all the green is just mould :)

[stuntman]

Well, after these few messages that have surely given us all something to think about I have a few questions to anyone willing to answer them concerning the RK95 and it's magazines.

Now, I've read that the new (read: plastic) magazines used by the FDF are supposed to somehow "break apart" from a small button situated at the bottom of the magazine.

Now according to rumours these plastic magazines are supposed to "break apart" easier than the ones made out of metal ?

And I do mean, "breaking apart" in training conditions or perhaps even during "the real thing"...

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/P1010127.jpg

Hm, hard for me to say, but the "lips" seem to be quite good enough? That
what you are talking about is definitively one bad thing with the magazines
on the AK5. Happened to me several times that the bottom simple fell of
and wooosch the rounds fell of. Happened once during a live fire exercise
when I was running in a trench, the bottom of the magazine fell of. I
couldn´t exactly stop right then so I went back to look for the rounds and
the spring afterwards, one dude in my squad found the spring, about 10
meters from the trench in a bush.

LOL special weapons to confusing mustardman?
And by the way to mainpin Who cares I didn't read most of your post so make it shorter and maybe I will pay attention to it!
And also think about this I might be so called ignorant (So called American attitude) or another 20 dollar word but think about who's really the ignoramus? The ignorant, or the intelectual angered by the ignorant?
And mustardman where should I start?http://guns.connect.fi/gow/txshot.jpg
1. The scope is to powerfull for the finn range lacking rifle!
2. The scope isn't even straight.
3.The rifle is a finn rifle ! (for "mainfin"Finn mutinous mofo!)
And please I am my own great source I do not need to prove anything to anyone for I trust my self.
LAterz..

[mustamato]

2. The scope isn't even straight.

You have never fired a rifle in real life have you? :)

[Dalleer]

I don´t really know what colour they should have, the one I have is grey,
dark grey rather than black. I´m somewhat hooked up with that they are
black, and that my grey is some old "early issue" one. Never really seen
any green ones, but maybe those in the SA-shops are grey/black magazines
that someone stored in a lot of humidity, so all the green is just mould

I've seen em', man!

It seems that the green ones exist, they were apparently some sort of a batch of test products, so they ended up in the SA-shops after someone agreed that there really was no _need for green magazines on black and grey assault rifles_ .

Too bad that I don't have any pictures, but you can imagine one in green...

[Uninen]

2. The scope isn't even straight.

You have never fired a rifle in real life have you? :)

:roll: Him being just a nosy kind, i would guess NOT! ;)

Just ignore him, as he doesnt have anything of any importance to say.. :|

note what he said earlier:


1. The scope is to powerfull for the finn range lacking rifle!

:cantbeli:

1. The scope is PSO-1 with 4x magnification.
2. How can scope be too powerful?
3. RK 62 has more range and hitting power than any 5.56 weapon could ever dream of having..

:backhand:

Just ignore him.. ;)

[stuntman]

2. The scope isn't even straight.

You have never fired a rifle in real life have you? :)

:roll: Him being just a nosy kind, i would guess NOT! ;)

Just ignore him, as he doesnt have anything of any importance to say.. :|

note what he said earlier:


1. The scope is to powerfull for the finn range lacking rifle!

:cantbeli:

1. The scope is PSO-1 with 4x magnification.
2. How can scope be too powerful?
3. RK 62 has more range and hitting power than any 5.56 weapon could ever dream of having..

:backhand:

Just ignore him.. ;)

Yes I have onion!
I am expert better then what ever the vodka drinking Finns can throw at me!
:P :P

[Sergei]

Tell me...how many tanks finland hold?

About +160 T-72 Modified +130 Leopard 2s +70 T-55M Modified


How big is your air force?

At current moment they have personel (skilled pilots..) enough for 180 interceptors for around the clock operation.


What aircraft you hold?

F-18 C and D.


How many APC you hold?

IFVs and APC, several thousand BMP-1, BMP-2, CV90, AVM, Patria XA 180-203 series, BTR-50 and BTR-60 at least. plus tracked all-terrain vehicles that are protected against small arms fire.

You know Uninen, I think that kind of information should be classified in Finland. I mean what if US would really want to hit Finland and he is inquiring about your strength. They should form some kind of KGB in Finland. :D (I hope you understand that I meant it as a joke).

[mustamato]

Even if it wasn´t a joke I don´t know if it would be even possible to keep
something like that a secret. There are in example no official information
in Finland about how many PKM´s are in use, but atleast the russian supplier
and the finnish buyer (the defence forces) know. So even these "classified"
stuff is known by probably hundreds of people. And something like a tank,
well, not that easy to just "smuggle in to the country" without anyone noticing
it. "Oh what do you have there in your trailer?" :) And by the way all that expensive
stuff is the tax-payers money, and they sure as hell want to know what they get.

[Maine Finn]

LOL special weapons to confusing mustardman?
And by the way to mainpin Who cares I didn't read most of your post so make it shorter and maybe I will pay attention to it!
And also think about this I might be so called ignorant (So called American attitude) or another 20 dollar word but think about who's really the ignoramus? The ignorant, or the intelectual angered by the ignorant?
And mustardman where should I start?

I think that perhaps you're just sore about having a girl challenge you directly and reasonably.... hard on the ego I'm sure!!

Finn men are tough, to be certain, but Finn women are tougher. Ever tried telling a Finn woman that she's wrong? Be prepared for a fight. I learnt that lesson hard from minun äiti. Or maybe that's just my family, and I'm just stupid....

[wreck]

LOL special weapons to confusing mustardman?
And by the way to mainpin Who cares I didn't read most of your post so make it shorter and maybe I will pay attention to it!
And also think about this I might be so called ignorant (So called American attitude) or another 20 dollar word but think about who's really the ignoramus? The ignorant, or the intelectual angered by the ignorant?
And mustardman where should I start?

I think that perhaps you're just sore about having a girl challenge you directly and reasonably.... hard on the ego I'm sure!!

Finn men are tough, to be certain, but Finn women are tougher. Ever tried telling a Finn woman that she's wrong? Be prepared for a fight. I learnt that lesson hard from minun äiti. Or maybe that's just my family, and I'm just stupid....

A guy sitting at an airport bar in Atlanta noticed a beautiful
woman sitting next to him.

He thought to himself, "Wow, she's so gorgeous she must
be a flight attendant. But which airline does she work for?"

Hoping to pick her up, he leaned towards her and uttered
the Delta slogan: "Love to fly and it shows?"

She gave him a blank, confused stare and he immediately
thought to himself, "Ooh ****, she doesn't work for Delta".

A moment later, another slogan popped into his head. He
leaned towards her again, "Something special in the air?"

She gave him the same confused look.

He mentally kicked himself, and scratched American Airlines
off the list.

Next he tried the United slogan: "I would really love to fly
your friendly skies?"

This time the woman turned on him, "What the **** do you
want?"

The man smiled, then slumped back in his chair, and said...
"Ahhh, Finnair!" :P

[kinghk]

This time the woman turned on him, "What the f*** do you
want?"

The man smiled, then slumped back in his chair, and said...
"Ahhh, Finnair!" :P

Sounds more like ryanair.

[Maine Finn]

rofl

Cute, really cute. *Grin* I'll have to remember that one....


rofl

[Maine Finn]

And by the way to mainpin Who cares I didn't read most of your post so make it shorter and maybe I will pay attention to it!
And also think about this I might be so called ignorant (So called American attitude) or another 20 dollar word but think about who's really the ignoramus? The ignorant, or the intelectual angered by the ignorant?
And mustardman where should I start?http://guns.connect.fi/gow/txshot.jpg
1. The scope is to powerfull for the finn range lacking rifle!
2. The scope isn't even straight.
3.The rifle is a finn rifle ! (for "mainfin"Finn mutinous mofo!)
And please I am my own great source I do not need to prove anything to anyone for I trust my self.
LAterz..

Just a quick parting shot before I abandon this thread. First of all, it's only natural for intellectuals to be angered by the ignorant, because there is a gap in the development of thought processes. Meaning, in a nutshell, that it is difficult for an inttellectual to interact and communicate with a so-called ignorant, because the other party does not seem able to grasp what the intellectual is saying. It's a primary reason for formal schools, to lessen this gap between two different levels of people.

Secondly, I am not "mutinous" for voicing my opinion. I tend to think that most people who have well-reasoned opinions are entitled to them. I'm honestly attempting to look at both sides with equal objectivity. Perhaps you have not taken the time or made the effort to notice, but I'm not a Finn in that I wasn't born in Finland. I'm a Finnish-American who first drew breath in Maine Medical Centre in Portland, and therefore have loyalties to both countries. (As soon as I get out of college, I'm going into the National Guard.)

I guess if you get mutinous out of that, I have completely wasted everyone's time, not the least my own.

By the way, if you are your own great source, I fear greatly for the quality of your future arguments.

[5jumpchump]

Hahahahahhahaha the US having problems defeating Finland rofl

The only problem would be , well there would be no problems rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

[mustamato]

Hahahahahhahaha the US having problems defeating Finland rofl

The only problem would be , well there would be no problems rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Just like US is defeating the Iraqi insurgents?

[duck]

WTF is this thing about? :cantbeli:

How likely is a war between the US and Finland, or the US and Switzerland or China and Brazil anyway? The silent majority in most countries is pro-American anyway, why take the few misfits seriously?

[Uninen]

Only misfit here is stuntman, who started the whole ****.. http://rfforces.phpbbhost1.info/images/smiles/read.gif

I just posted some good vids, to which btw, nobody seems to paying any attention, so just drop it! :petting:

[Catch22]

U guys probably noticed that our brilliant stuntman is most probabyly the same individual known as "woodland!", well known for posting **** as started flames while adding comments to militaryphotos galleries pics. I mean he's probably some sort of sociopath hanging around militaryforums :roll: I would just ignore BS he posts - I know its annoying but this guy is a simple waste of time :D

Uninen and others - why actually Fins decided not to use 5.56 ammo instead of russian 7.62x39? because of resources? Parameters? Russia providers?

And as for quality of finnish guns - Sako and Valmet dont actually need any advertisment. Lapua rounds also ;-) It would be similiar to contesting quality of HK or FN.

[mustamato]

Uninen and others - why actually Fins decided not to use 5.56 ammo instead of russian 7.62x39? because of resources? Parameters? Russia providers?

That´s a good question. But I don´t think it really has to do with $$,
the the last assault rifles bought in the 90´s, the RK 95 (those that look like
Galils) were very expensive, if it just was about money they could just as well
have bought them in 5.56. I have four explantions to why the finns still use
the old but effective short 7.62.

1.) Money, replacing 500.000 assault rifles would cost a ****load of cash,
although, see my explantion above, I don´t think it´s really the reason.

2.) Power, the 7.62 short is better in the forests as found in Finland, because
the bullet is heavier and can pierce small logs and stuff that the enemy would
be hiding behind. Also the bullet doesn´t change direction (when hitting branches
and stuff) as the 5.56 would do.

3.) Range and ballistics is better on the 5.56, but Finland is covered with dense
forests and the combat distances would really never be 300+ meters anyway,
it would rather be 100 and less than that.

4.) The ability to use captured ammunition. If there would be a war against
Russia then the finns could easily use the 7.62x39 captured and also the 7.62x54.
The newer captured 5.45-rifles would probably be used as well, but by
second line troops, "factory guards" and all that.

[Uninen]

Yeah,

mustamato made the all right and good points, but the primary reason and point why we use 7,62 x 39mm is its hitting and penetrative power..

On a "weapons fire power display" they shot from 150m with RK 62/76 which uses 7,62 x 39mm ammo.. the bullets penetrated 1500mm (1,5m) of dense wood.. :P

So i guess its good enough for us..

[mustamato]

Yeah,

mustamato made the all right and good points, but the primary reason and point why we use 7,62 x 39mm is its hitting and penetrative power..

On a "weapons fire power display" they shot from 150m with RK 62/76 which uses 7,62 x 39mm ammo.. the bullets penetrated 1500mm (1,5m) of dense wood.. :P

So i guess its good enough for us..

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/effect.jpg
Note "only" 70 cm of wood with 5.56

From swedish SoldF 2001 (Soldier in the field)

http://www.fmuhc.mil.se/fmpub/pubbild/img_soldf.gif
http://www.fmuhc.mil.se/fmpub/pubdok/soldf.pdf

[Catch22]

Uhm thanks for explaining... I've heard some of arguments before (one about captured ammo in case of russian invasion - but since it's less probable now, and 74's are 5.45 I guess its not the main reason). One that appeals to me is that concerning the battle conditions piercing values and possibility of ricochets - that's a good reason for me :) Now there's another: Since the Scandinavinas are getting more and more involved into the peacekeeping missions - and they require certain unification I guess - is FDF/SA to equip their peacekeepers with AR's that are more standardised with other NATO armies rifles? I'm speaking of it because Polish expeditionary corps uses wz.96 Beryl which uses a standard NATO 5.56. There are many AKMS 7.62 still in use but theyre used mainly for training and guard duties. So whats the Finnish approach on this? I know that in many war-torn regions AK ammo is relatively easy to get but its quality is questionable... so logistics come in question :)

[Stavka]

Now there's another: Since the Scandinavinas are getting more and more involved into the peacekeeping missions - and they require certain unification I guess - is FDF/SA to equip their peacekeepers with AR's that are more standardised with other NATO armies rifles? I'm speaking of it because Polish expeditionary corps uses wz.96 Beryl which uses a standard NATO 5.56. There are many AKMS 7.62 still in use but theyre used mainly for training and guard duties. So whats the Finnish approach on this? I know that in many war-torn regions AK ammo is relatively easy to get but its quality is questionable... so logistics come in question :)

Swedish weapons are already NATO-standard when it comes to calibres. Take a magazine from an M16/M4/CAR15/SecretAlienDeathRay and it slots in nicely into the AK5.
Swedish firearms are in 5.56NATO, 7.62NATO or 12.7 (.50)NATO

[mustamato]

Uhm thanks for explaining... I've heard some of arguments before (one about captured ammo in case of russian invasion - but since it's less probable now, and 74's are 5.45 I guess its not the main reason). One that appeals to me is that concerning the battle conditions piercing values and possibility of ricochets - that's a good reason for me :) Now there's another: Since the Scandinavinas are getting more and more involved into the peacekeeping missions - and they require certain unification I guess - is FDF/SA to equip their peacekeepers with AR's that are more standardised with other NATO armies rifles? I'm speaking of it because Polish expeditionary corps uses wz.96 Beryl which uses a standard NATO 5.56. There are many AKMS 7.62 still in use but theyre used mainly for training and guard duties. So whats the Finnish approach on this? I know that in many war-torn regions AK ammo is relatively easy to get but its quality is questionable... so logistics come in question :)

No I don´t think our peacekeepers will get any 5.56 rifles. There is so much
logistics coming from home anyway all the time, and as well the ammunition
I guess. Also giving the peacekeepers new rifles gives a signal of "the rifle in
service is total **** and we must give our forces abroad new ones". Simply,
I doubt that they will get another rifles.

But I read that Finland is setting up a international elite force of about 40-50
men, FiGrom or something like that :) These will probably be equipped with
5.56 I should guess because they will work together with other countries forces.

http://www2.mil.fi/maavoimat/joukot/utjr/kovawww.jpg
Hae nyt = Apply now, recruitment add for this
finnish full-time unit. The finnish name for them
is "Erikoisjääkäri" (or special jaeger).



Now there's another: Since the Scandinavinas are getting more and more involved into the peacekeeping missions - and they require certain unification I guess - is FDF/SA to equip their peacekeepers with AR's that are more standardised with other NATO armies rifles? I'm speaking of it because Polish expeditionary corps uses wz.96 Beryl which uses a standard NATO 5.56. There are many AKMS 7.62 still in use but theyre used mainly for training and guard duties. So whats the Finnish approach on this? I know that in many war-torn regions AK ammo is relatively easy to get but its quality is questionable... so logistics come in question :)

Swedish weapons are already NATO-standard when it comes to calibres. Take a magazine from an M16/M4/CAR15/SecretAlienDeathRay and it slots in nicely into the AK5.
Swedish firearms are in 5.56NATO, 7.62NATO or 12.7 (.50)NATO

Sure about that? The AK5 doesn´t use the same magazines as the M16-series,
amonst others the feeding plate is different because the AK5 doesn´t have
that "last round lock up"-mechanism.

[Catch22]

I know Swedish army uses Nato 5.56/7.62/12.7 :) My question was about Finns... As for the mags - STANAG m16 type mags are accepted (from what I recall) by SA80, FAMAS and Beretta famliy rifles. FNC, G36, Beryl wont accept them - for example Beryl has got the AK style magazine lock and not the side one like armalites.

Maybe REMOV would provide us wiht more details :roll: ?

[mustamato]

http://www.hut.fi/~jpkontio/khmerkit/maav/psvm.gifhttp://www.hut.fi/~jpkontio/khmerkit/maav/pstm.gif
Armoured personel (crew) and anti-tank mans unit badge

http://www.hut.fi/~jpkontio/khmerkit/maav/psjaak.gifhttp://www.hut.fi/~jpkontio/khmerkit/maav/suojelum.gif
Panssarijääkäri, or simply "jaeger within armoured unit", BMP-1/2 squads etc.
And "guess what" protection squad unit. There are more badges but just as examples.

http://www.students.tut.fi/~satama/kuvat/rukpsv.jpg
Black beret with a knight in helmet as used by the armoured
brigades units. Note the fist on the uniforms badge, these are
thus armoured vehicle crews.

http://www.panssariprikaati.fi/images/komentaja.jpg
Present day commander of the Panssariprikaati, Colonel Kyösti Halonen.

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Henkilot/Heinrichs%26Lagus%26Talvela.jpg
And the most famous of the finnish armoured commanders,
Ruben Lagus that commanded the finnish armoured division
during world war 2, and did it succesfully as well. Lagus in the
middle, with Lieutenant general Axel Heinrichs on the left and
and major general Paavo Talvela to the right.

http://www.ilmatorjunta.fi/lohtaja/crotale_400.jpg
ItO 90 Crotale is used by the armoured brigades AA batallion

http://www.ilmatorjunta.fi/lohtaja/marksman_600.jpg
As the ItPsv 90 Marksman

http://www.ilmatorjunta.fi/lohtaja/igla_600.jpg
As the ItO 86M Igla

http://www.ilmatorjunta.fi/lohtaja/sergei_600.jpg
... and the "Sergeis", old model 61 here, modernized model
95 is simply a improved version with automated aiming etc.

http://www.ipmsfinland.org/galleria/referenssit/t-72/kuvat/30.jpg

http://www.ipmsfinland.org/galleria/referenssit/t-72/kuvat/10.jpg
Looks like a old T-72 used as a target.

http://www.ipmsfinland.org/galleria/referenssit/t-72/kuvat/37.JPG

http://www.ipmsfinland.org/galleria/referenssit/t-72/kuvat/11.jpg¨

http://www2.lut.fi/~kiviharj/harrastus/intti/images/vek5_JPG.jpg
And two grunts...

http://www2.lut.fi/~kiviharj/harrastus/intti/images/vek4_JPG.jpg
... as these two

[Uninen]

mm,

Thanks!

Ive always like the PST-Badge and i didnt even know that PanssariJääkärit have their own special badge, as i always tought that they use standard Jalkaväki-Badge..

--

http://www.hut.fi/~jpkontio/khmerkit/maav/kivaarim.gif

--

[Stavka]

Swedish weapons are already NATO-standard when it comes to calibres. Take a magazine from an M16/M4/CAR15/SecretAlienDeathRay and it slots in nicely into the AK5.
Swedish firearms are in 5.56NATO, 7.62NATO or 12.7 (.50)NATO

Sure about that? The AK5 doesn´t use the same magazines as the M16-series,
amonst others the feeding plate is different because the AK5 doesn´t have
that "last round lock up"-mechanism.

Yep. It works, but you wont be able to use the lockup mechanism.