Great Famine as Soviet-enforced genocide.

[ed316]

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/printer_friendly/news_logo.gif
Ukraine demands 'genocide' marked
Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko has called on the international community to recognise the 1930s Great Famine as Soviet-enforced genocide.
"The world must know about this tragedy," he said, at the opening of an exhibition dedicated to famine victims.
Millions of Ukrainians starved to death in 1932-33 as USSR leader Joseph Stalin stripped them of their produce in a forced farm collectivisation campaign.
A small number of nations have already recognised the famine as genocide.
Ukraine has designated 26 November as an official day of remembrance for victims of "Holodomor" - meaning murder by hunger - and other political crackdowns.

GREAT FAMINE
Called Holodomor in Ukrainian - meaning murder by hunger
About a quarter of Ukraine's population wiped out
Seven to 10 million people thought to have died
Children disappeared; cannibalism became widespread


There are plans to mark the anniversary this Saturday by lighting 33,000 candles - representing the number of people thought to have been dying every day at the height of the famine.
The true scale of the disaster was concealed by the Soviet Union, and only came to light after Ukrainian independence in 1991.
Cannibalism is reported to have become rife as a whole nation starved.
The tragedy should "become a lesson for our nation as well as for the whole world", Mr Yushchenko said on Friday.
In 2003, marking the 70th anniversary of the famine, the UN said the famine "ranks with the worst atrocities of our time" and a national tragedy - but left out any reference to genocide.
Russia opposed
Roman Serbyn, professor of history and a Ukrainian expert at the University of Quebec in Montreal, says: "Ukraine did not make a technically clear case."


He believes the "genocide" designation has proved elusive because the famine is often considered to have been aimed at a social group (peasants) rather than a national or ethnic group.
However, a strong case can be put showing that by closing the borders so Ukrainians could not escape to Russia, Stalin was targeting Ukrainian nationals, he says.
Russia opposes designation as genocide, he says, and "the biggest reason is national pride. But also the political and economic consequences... if you recognise a crime you might have to pay compensation". In 2003 Russia's ambassador to Ukraine, Viktor Chernomyrdin, was quoted by Interfax news agency dismissing talk of an apology or compensation, saying: "We're not going to apologise... there is nobody to apologise to."

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/europe/4471256.stm

Published: 2005/11/25 20:58:43 GMT

© BBC MMV

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

I suppose there should be some sort of day of rememberance for all the Ukranians the Soviets whacked.

[vryhpyammoadded]

This was a horrible and tragic event in human history.
I just recently finished researching Stalin’s propaganda campaign in the US concerning this genocide. I am amazed how thoroughly he bamboozled the US into not really paying much attention with only a few moles in the US media and leftist organizations.

[rocket13]

Stalin started the famine just because he thought the Ukrainians where a bit to nationalistic. The man gets my vote for being the worst human being ever in our history. He spilled more blood of his own people and the germans could in WW2.

[Atlantic Friend]

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/printer_friendly/news_logo.gif
Ukraine demands 'genocide' marked
Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko has called on the international community to recognise the 1930s Great Famine as Soviet-enforced genocide.

It would be about time, yes.

Aah, Uncle Joe, dear "little father" of the Soviet peoples, thy name is genocide.

[walford]

...I just recently finished researching Stalin’s propaganda campaign in the US concerning this genocide. I am amazed how thoroughly he bamboozled the US into not really paying much attention with only a few moles in the US media and leftist organizations.Stalin didn't need any propaganda campaign in the US. There were plenty of ideologically sympathetic reporters and politicians who did not want what was going on to come out. A notorious example is the NY Times' Walter Duranty who still holds a Pulitzer Prize for promulgating Kremlin-filtered news from the USSR in the early 1930s. There has been a campaign to strip it for the past several years:


Pulitzer-Winning Lies (http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/002/791vwuaz.asp?ZoomFont=YES)

...some of the lies contained in those dispatches, lies which the New York Times has never repudiated with the same splash as it accorded Jayson Blair's comparatively trivial lies:

"There is no famine or actual starvation nor is there likely to be."
--New York Times, Nov. 15, 1931, page 1

"Any report of a famine in Russia is today an exaggeration or malignant propaganda."
--New York Times, August 23, 1933

"Enemies and foreign critics can say what they please. Weaklings and despondents at home may groan under the burden, but the youth and strength of the Russian people is essentially at one with the Kremlin's program, believes it worthwhile and supports it, however hard be the sledding."
--New York Times, December 9, 1932, page 6

"You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs."
--New York Times, May 14, 1933, page 18

"There is no actual starvation or deaths from starvation but there is widespread mortality from diseases due to malnutrition."
--New York Times, March 31, 1933, page 13

...the UP's Eugene Lyons was telephoning the dire news of the famine to his New York office but the was ordered to stop because it was antagonizing the Kremlin. Ralph Barnes, the New York Herald Tribune reporter, turned to Duranty and asked him what he was going to write. Duranty replied:

Nothing. What are a few million dead Russians in a situation like this? Quite unimportant. This is just an incident in the sweeping historical changes here. I think the entire matter is exaggerated.

And this was at a time when peasants in Ukraine were dying of starvation at the rate of 25,000 a day.

In his masterwork about Stalin's imposed famine on Ukraine, "Harvest of Sorrow," Robert Conquest has written:

As one of the best known correspondents in the world for one of the best known newspapers in the world, Mr. Duranty's denial that there was a famine was accepted as gospel. Thus Mr. Duranty gulled not only the readers of the New York Times but because of the newspaper's prestige, he influenced the thinking of countless thousands of other readers about the character of Josef Stalin and the Soviet regime. And he certainly influenced the newly-elected President Roosevelt to recognize the Soviet Union.

[vryhpyammoadded]

Yep, Walter Duranty was exactly one of a number of individuals I was implying about. I hope more people learn about him and spread the word to vilify this monster so that future media propagandists can be spotted and stopped.

[asch]

Yup!
We ruskies ar krazy pipl! arrgh! kil all pipl...

come on, why you think they (we) need to do such things?
just because they evil incarnates? bwahaha. bs.
when empire collapses and you got a civil war on it's remains, bad things happends sometime.
or maybe you think people in countries around burst themselves from the gluttony?
Yushchenko - this bitch just want some political score and attract some attention.
and, of course, in "civilized" 21 century you can't fvck up your neighbours and make request to EU membership in the same time. so, you insult them in civilized way.
btw, present can change the past. and i would not be surprised if more horrible crimes will come to arena. crimes that not happends for now.

bwck!! my lack of english interferes me to correctly express my thought.

[nahimov]

So what about all the Russians that were killed? What would you call that? EVERYONE suffered during Soviet times. There were not Russians vs everyone else. There was a whole system which exterminated PEOPLE not just nationalities. Russians suffered just the same.

[Count Lippe]

Quite funny that the Russians on this board jump at this article... it didn't really accuse Russians, but Stalin and the Soviets.

[Dexx]

For me it seems like Yushchenko wants to use this to boost his political standing. While many Ukrainians are disappointed about his recent policy after the so called "revolution", almost all Ukrainians can agree with him on his call for genocide acceptance. It is a simple political motivated move played on the shoulders of the victims. If he had said it under different circumstance, I could have agreed with him though.

[Lazarou]

So what about all the Russians that were killed? What would you call that? EVERYONE suffered during Soviet times. There were not Russians vs everyone else. There was a whole system which exterminated PEOPLE not just nationalities. Russians suffered just the same.

Ok now that just made the bullsh*t meter go off the charts.

So how do you explain all the russianization and systematic extermination of ethnic minorities then?

[walford]

So what about all the Russians that were killed? What would you call that? EVERYONE suffered during Soviet times. There were not Russians vs everyone else. There was a whole system which exterminated PEOPLE not just nationalities. Russians suffered just the same.Quite funny that the Russians on this board jump at this article... it didn't really accuse Russians, but Stalin and the Soviets.Indeed. There is a bit of hypersensitivity here. Now I see why it is that Russians get so defensive when the Soviet era is brought up. Apparently they are wrapping their own identitity too much with that of Stalin. Most of us who bring this up do so to point out the dangers of concentrated power, not to paint the Russians as being inherently evil.

Of course Stalin killed a lot of Russians. He was very good at that, and not because he was a Georgian. He was a thug who weilded power in a regime that had the authority to arbitrarily issue any decree it wished. Stalin made good use of such power to indulge/cater to every possible paranoid, irrational whim -- at great cost to millions.

The USSR was a major reason why more people were killed by their own governments in the 20th century than in all of the wars combined.

[Kilgor]

Ok now that just made the bullsh*t meter go off the charts.

So how do you explain all the russianization and systematic extermination of ethnic minorities then?

It wasnt so much direct extermination like the nazis, but deportation to a siberian gulag to be built from scratch out of the freezing wilderness didnt leave that many survivors and the ones who did were left crippled.

Yes, "russians" suffered but certain groups got on stalins **** list. Such as the volga germans, cossaks, chechens, etc.

[daily666]

Yup!
We ruskies ar krazy pipl! arrgh! kil all pipl...

come on, why you think they (we) need to do such things?
just because they evil incarnates? bwahaha. bs.
when empire collapses and you got a civil war on it's remains, bad things happends sometime.
or maybe you think people in countries around burst themselves from the gluttony?
Yushchenko - this bitch just want some political score and attract some attention.
and, of course, in "civilized" 21 century you can't fvck up your neighbours and make request to EU membership in the same time. so, you insult them in civilized way.
btw, present can change the past. and i would not be surprised if more horrible crimes will come to arena. crimes that not happends for now.

bwck!! my lack of english interferes me to correctly express my thought.

Ok apart from the mumbo jumbo, denying that fact by the Russians is like a German denying that Holocaust ever happened (which is a crime in many countries). The soviets were equal murderers as nazis (or worse) but the problem is Uncle Joe had FDR in his pocket and they actually won the second world war (which they started btw) and as we all know winners take it all.

[asch]

denying that Holocaust ever happened
man, strong sht you smoke. don't remember that i post something like that.


which they started btw
it is hard to me to not beginning threatin you personally.
any facts/links or go fk urslf.

[daily666]

man, strong sht you smoke. don't remember that i post something like that.

it is hard to me to not beginning threatin you personally.
any facts/links or go fk urslf.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II#1939:_War_breaks_out_in_Europe

From Wikipedia:

"War broke out in Poland on 1 September 1939, with the German invasion of Poland. France and the United Kingdom honoured their defensive alliance of March 1939 by declaring war two days later on 3 September. Australia and New Zealand declared war the same day, although through the quirk of the international date line, New Zealand then Australia were the first to declare war on Germany. Canada followed a week later, on 10 September. Only partly mobilised and with troops inadequately equipped with largely outdated weapons (which included large numbers of horse-mounted cavalry), and without the anticipated support of French or British forces, Poland unsurprisingly fared poorly against the Wehrmacht's superior numbers and strategy of "blitzkrieg". In accordance with the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, the Soviet Red Army invaded Poland from the east on 17 September. Hours later, the Polish government escaped to Romania. The last Polish Army unit was defeated on 6 October. As Poland fell, the British and French were either caught unaware of German intentions or had not allowed themselves to believe that Germany would invade Poland"

from BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwtwo/invasion_poland_01.shtml

Invasion of Poland
By Bradley Lightbody

Nazi-Soviet pact

Hitler's only real concern was that a sudden German invasion of Poland might alarm Stalin and trigger a war with the Soviet Union. Stalin feared a German invasion and had been seeking an anti-Nazi 'collective security' alliance with the western powers for many years, but by July 1939 Britain and France had still not agreed terms. Poland had also rejected an alliance with the Soviet Union, and refused permission for the Red Army to cross its territory to engage the Wehrmacht in a future war. Hitler saw his opportunity, and authorised his Foreign Minister, Joachim von Ribbentrop to enter into secret negotiations with the Soviet Union.

The result was the signing of the Nazi-Soviet Pact on 23 August 1939. Both Hitler and Stalin set aside their mutual antipathy for national gain and in particular the restoration of their pre-1919 borders.

On 17 September the Red Army crossed the Polish border in the east, in fulfilment of the secret agreement within the Nazi-Soviet Pact, and ended any prospect of Poland's survival. Those Poles who could, fled across the border into Romania, and many subsequently reached the west and continued the war as the Free Polish Forces. Among them were many pilots, who were welcomed into the RAF and took part in the Battle of Britain."


you want more sources???