Photo of Kerry with Fonda enrages Vietnam veterans

[Tommy Gunn]

http://www.newsmax.com/images/headlines/Fonda_Kerry_arrow.jpg
Actress and activist Jane Fonda attends an anti-Vietnam War rally at Valley Forge, Pennsylvania. The rally was sponsored by Vietnam veterans. John Kerry can be seen directly in the background. 1970 Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, USA


*full story* (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040210-094330-7435r.htm)

Photo of Kerry with Fonda enrages Vietnam veterans
Washington Times ^ | 2/10/04 | Stephen Dinan


Posted on 02/10/2004 9:23:27 PM PST by kattracks



Photo of Kerry with Fonda enrages Vietnam veterans
Washington Times | 2/10/04 | Stephen Dinan

A photograph of Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts together with Jane Fonda at an anti-Vietnam war rally in 1970 in Pennsylvania has surfaced on the Internet, angering veterans who say his association with her 34 years ago is a slap in the faces of Vietnam War veterans.
The photograph, taken at a Labor Day rally at Valley Forge, has been circulating across the Internet, particularly among veterans. It was posted Monday on the NewsMax.com Web site.
Mr. Kerry spoke at the 1970 rally, the culmination of a three-day protest hike from Moorestown, N.J., to Valley Forge, which featured a speech by Miss Fonda and a reading by Hollywood actor Donald Sutherland.

[Tommy Gunn]

Someone should dig into this -- Fonda was paying for the protests, which Kerry organized. There is clearly a much stronger tie between them, then just "accidentally" being at the same protest.

Is Kerry a Manchurian Candidate?

[mustamato]

rofl

What is this, the last desperate attempt to try to keep him out of the White
House? Go Kerry! (Lovely victory with Clark pulling out and all).

[Seiyuuki]

Someone should dig into this -- Fonda was paying for the protests, which Kerry organized. There is clearly a much stronger tie between them, then just "accidentally" being at the same protest.

Is Kerry a Manchurian Candidate?

No...can't you see mustamato comment...he's the European Candidate.

It is his right to protest the Vietnam war and all, like it matter that his actions were used by the North Vietnamese to taunt Americans' POW at the time.

[martinexsquaddie]

rofl rofl
kerry went there did'nt enjoy and it said it was a bad idea
Bush got a nice cushy number and even sacked that :lol:.
In the UK the Old leftie tony Benn was a pacifist and anti military spending but on defense matter was always treated by respect as he had been a navigator in lancasters during world war 2.

[Sergei]

Veterans? Which veterans? They should check their facts.

Unlike Kerry, who really went to Vietnam and served there, Bush is a chickenhawk AWOL warrior.
I wouldn't want to be led by a person who was seeking shelter behind the backs of others who went to war to fight and die.

[Tane Angle]

I have seen nothing to indicate that Keryy's presence at those rallies noticeably worsened any POW's mental condition. If it wasn't him there it would have been somewhere else. If we're going to talk about POWs, we can start talkinga bout George Bush Sr., **** Cheney, Ronald Reagan, and a slew of other politicians masquerading as pro-military leaders. At least Kerry went over and made a decision based on what he experienced himself. He didn't want to lose any more men, that was his motivation, from what I understand. More power to him.

Also, they are clearly at least ten feet apart. Do you know how many tens of thousands regularly attended those rallies? I think this is making a mountain of a molehill. Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[XASA]

Since I was in the Army from 1965 to 1971, I can only say that, based on my experience, veterans of that era could care less whether someone demonstrated against the war or decided to avoid the draft. For those of you who are too young and have no recollection of that period aside from what they have read or seen on television, the vast majority of Americans including those in the military were against the war. We who served were not angry with those who didn't nor with those who avoided the draft. We made a decision to go others decided not to, that was their choice and they have to live with it.

Obviously, Republicans are running scared, especially with Bush's military record being called into question, and are making a rather lame attempt to connect Kerry with Jane Fonda. Aside from the fact that they were both against the war-- along with millions of other Americans-- they have very little in common. Also, the fact that Kerry was wounded three times means he could say anything he wanted to about the war without worrying about his patriotism being called into question by those who probably haven't served their country.

[Trident-za]

Excellent posts, Tane and XASA.

[Jack Mehoff]

rofl

What is this, the last desperate attempt to try to keep him out of the White
House? Go Kerry! (Lovely victory with Clark pulling out and all).


Obviously you don't serve in U.S. military and don't know the "love" from U.S. servicemen for Jane Fonda

[Uncle Sam]

I'm not "Fond-a" Hanoi Jane !!

[Swed]

GO KERRY!

[German_American]

XASA, my dad is a nam vet and hes pissed, he said kerry is no better then those hippys who called him and his buddies comming home a baby eater and is like spitting in his face. My dad didnt like the war either but when his service was over and he was home he didn't go to rallys out of respect for his comrades serving overseas. Personally, if he happens to become president and he is my commander in chief I hope his hippyness is all out of him.

[TriggerPuller]

"If you people knew what communism is and what it stands for you people would get down on your hands and knees and pray for it" QUOTE jane fonda at one of her many anti-war University protests.

TP

[Seoulstriker]

GO KERRY!


you know what? you want kerry to succeed because he would destroy america. why don't YOU vote for him, asshole? oh wait, you in f***ing sweden, where it is legal to have *** with animals!!!!!! :bash: :-*$

[Uncle Sam]

I'm not "Fond-a" Hanoi Jane !!

Again !

[Midtown]

hahaha thats the funniest thing you've ever said.

[TriggerPuller]

GO KERRY!


you know what? you want kerry to succeed because he would destroy america. why don't YOU vote for him, asshole? oh wait, you in f***ing sweden, where it is legal to have *** with animals!!!!!! :bash: :-*$Is this true? Damn if it is Iam moving to Sweden! Hell my sister lives there and she IS an animal!!

TP

[cut]

GO KERRY!


you know what? you want kerry to succeed because he would destroy america. why don't YOU vote for him, asshole? oh wait, you in f***ing sweden, where it is legal to have *** with animals!!!!!! :bash: :-*$Is this true? Damn if it is Iam moving to Sweden! Hell my sister lives there and she IS an animal!!

TP

rofl I bow to you TP

[Cael]

I'm not a Kerry man, i'm actually a bush man, but this connection with him and Jane Fonda is stupid. Just because the man spoke in the same place that Jane Fonda did doesn't mean he shares all the same values with her.

The one thing that they had in common was that they were both against the war. It didn't mean that he was pro-communism. He was just against the war. Now i've met a lot of vets in my life. And i'd have to say that it's even when it comes to those for or against the Vietnam war. Not everyone shares the same opinions about conflicts, but you still need to respect Kerry for having served his country in a time of war, and when he had to. And he did it very well.

At least he wasn't like Dean who had a "hurt" back. :D

As far as Bush goes, we'll see when everything gets uncovered.

[Rantanplan]

GO KERRY!


you know what? you want kerry to succeed because he would destroy america. why don't YOU vote for him, asshole? oh wait, you in f***ing sweden, where it is legal to have *** with animals!!!!!!

WTF are you talking about?!?!?! rofl

[Geezah]

The book he doesn’t want you to see: When Kerry ran for election to the U.S. House of Representative in 1972, “he found it necessary to suppress reproduction of the cover picture appearing on his own book, The New Soldier. His political opponent pointed out that it depicted several unkempt youths crudely handling an American flag to mock the famous photo of the U.S. Marines at Iwo Jima,” according to Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry. “Suddenly, copies of the book became unavailable and even disappeared from libraries. But the Lowell (Mass.) Sun said of the type of person shown on its cover: ‘These people spit on the flag, they burn the flag, they carry the flag upside down, [and] they all but wipe their noses with it in their efforts to show their contempt for everything it still stands for,’” the New American reported. Even today it is hard to find this infamous photo and book.
http://la.indymedia.org/uploads/kerrynewsoldier.jpg

What You Don’t Know About John Kerry

With his win in Iowa, Sen. John Kerry could be on his way to the White House. But most Americans are unaware of the real Kerry.

Here are facts and quotations that reveal the character of the new Democrat leader.

# Denouncing America with ‘Hanoi’ Jane: Although Wesley Clark and others have attacked former front-runner Howard Dean as a draft-dodging ski bum, Kerry is far more complex than the simple war hero he portrays himself as.

He became a celebrated organizer for one of America's most extreme appeasement groups, Vietnam Veterans Against the War. He consorted with the likes of “Hanoi” Jane Fonda and Ramsey Clark, Lyndon Johnson’s radical former attorney general.

He attended a seminar bankrolled by Fonda in Detroit in February 1971. Watching 125 self-proclaimed Vietnam veterans testify at a Howard Johnson’s about atrocities allegedly committed by U.S. forces, the man who would be president later said he found the accounts shocking and irrefutable.

Dubbed “The Winter Soldier Investigation,” the protest attracted minimal media attention, according to the Los Angeles Times, because Fonda insisted it be held in the remote Michigan city rather than the less “authentic” Washington, D.C.

Still, the event gave Kerry an idea for a protest that was sure to be a media smash, and he immediately set out to organize one of the most confrontational protests of the war.

Operation Dewey Canyon III began on April 18, 1971, when nearly 1,000 Vietnam veterans and people claiming to be veterans gathered on Washington’s Mall for what they called “a limited incursion into the country of Congress.”

The group staged mock firefights on the steps of the Capitol and Supreme Court and defied U.S. Park Police after the Department of Justice issued an injunction barring it from camping on the Mall.

# Those evil American soldiers: Testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on April 23, 1971, Kerry claimed that U.S. soldiers had “raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam.”

# ‘We are not the best’: In his testimony, Kerry claimed there was no communist threat and said: “In 1970 at West Point Vice President Agnew said ‘some glamorize the criminal misfits of society while our best men die in Asian rice paddies to preserve the freedom which most of those misfits abuse,’ and this was used as a rallying point for our effort in Vietnam. But for us, as boys in Asia whom the country was supposed to support, his statement is a terrible distortion from which we can only draw a very deep sense of revulsion, and hence the anger of some of the men who are here in Washington today. It is a distortion because we in no way consider ourselves the best men of this country ….”

U.S. Veteran Dispatch noted in 1996: “Kerry's testimony, it should be noted, occurred while some of his fellow Vietnam veterans were known by the world to be enduring terrible suffering as prisoners of war in North Vietnamese prisons. Kerry was a supporter of the ‘People's Peace Treaty,’" a supposed ‘people's’ declaration to end the war, reportedly drawn up in communist East Germany. It included nine points, all of which were taken from Viet Cong peace proposals at the Paris peace talks as conditions for ending the war.”

# Throw as I say, not as I do: On that same day he led members of VVAW in a protest during which they threw their medals and ribbons over a fence in front of the U.S. Capitol.

Kerry later admitted the medals he threw were not his. To this day they hang on the wall of his office.

# Communist stooge: The communist Daily World delightedly published photos of him speaking to demonstrators and boasted that the marchers displayed a banner depicting a portrait of Communist Party leader Angela Davis, on record stating, “I am dedicated to the overthrow of your system of government and your society,” the New American recalled in May 2003.

“By frequently participating in VVAW’s demonstrations, Kerry found himself marching alongside what the Boston Herald Traveler identified as ‘revolutionary Communists.’ While noting that known Reds had openly organized these events, the December 12, 1971 Herald Traveler reported the presence of an ‘abundance of Vietcong flags, clenched fists raised in the air, and placards plainly bearing legends in support of China, Cuba, the USSR, North Korea and the Hanoi government.’"

Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry says: “As a national leader of VVAW, Kerry campaigned against the effort of the United States to contain the spread of Communism. He used the blood of servicemen still in the field for his own political advancement by claiming that their blood was being shed unnecessarily or in vain.

“Under Kerry's leadership, VVAW members mocked the uniform of United States soldiers by wearing tattered fatigues marked with pro-communist graffiti. They dishonored America by marching in demonstrations under the flag of the Viet Cong enemy.”

Sen. John McCain revealed that his North Vietnamese captors had used reports of Kerry-led protests to taunt him and his fellow prisoners. Retired General George S. Patton III angrily noted that Kerry’s actions had “given aid and comfort to the enemy.”

In recent years when Kerry has exploited the Vietnam Veterans Memorial for photo opportunities on Veterans Day, some veterans, still outraged by his betrayal, have turned their backs on him.


# The book he doesn’t want you to see: When Kerry ran for election to the U.S. House of Representative in 1972, “he found it necessary to suppress reproduction of the cover picture appearing on his own book, The New Soldier. His political opponent pointed out that it depicted several unkempt youths crudely handling an American flag to mock the famous photo of the U.S. Marines at Iwo Jima,” according to Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry.

“Suddenly, copies of the book became unavailable and even disappeared from libraries. But the Lowell (Mass.) Sun said of the type of person shown on its cover: ‘These people spit on the flag, they burn the flag, they carry the flag upside down, [and] they all but wipe their noses with it in their efforts to show their contempt for everything it still stands for,’” the New American reported.

Even today it is hard to find this infamous photo and book.

# Friendly with the enemy: Kerry’s fondness for Vietnam’s communist dictatorship, one of the most oppressive in the world, continues.

As chairman of the Select Senate Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, created in 1991 to investigate reports that U.S. prisoners of war and soldiers designated missing in action were still alive in Vietnam, Kerry badgered the panel into voting that no American servicemen remained in Vietnam.

“[N]o one in the United States Senate pushed harder to bury the POW/MIA issue, the last obstacle preventing normalization of relations with Hanoi, than John Forbes Kerry,” noted U.S. Veteran Dispatch.

“But Kerry's participation in the Committee became controversial in December 1992,” reported the nonpartisan Center for Public Integrity, “when Hanoi announced that it had awarded Colliers International, a Boston-based real estate company, an exclusive deal to develop its commercial real estate potentially worth billions. Stuart Forbes, the CEO of Colliers, is Kerry's cousin.”

The “odd coincidence,” according to FrontPageMagazine.com, involved a deal worth $905 million.

Jeff Jacoby, the token conservative columnist at the Boston Globe, notes that Kerry continues his apologia for Vietnam's never-ending atrocities. "Far from taking the lead on the Vietnam Human Rights Bill, he has prevented it from coming to a vote. He claims that making an issue of Hanoi's repression would be counterproductive."

Kerry is also a fan of China’s communist dictatorship. “On May 19, 1994, five years after Tiananmen Square, Kerry spoke on the Senate floor against linking China's Most Favored Nation trade status to its human rights record,” Slate reported.

Kerry said: “China is the strongest military power in Asia. We need China's cooperation. We cannot afford to adopt a cold-war kind of policy that merely excludes and pushes China away.”

Limiting China's MFN status “would make us a bit player in a production of enormous proportions. We possess no stick, including MFN, which can force China to embrace internationally recognized human rights and freedoms.”

# More extreme than Hillary and Kucinich: Among the White House wannabes, long-shot Rep. Dennis Kucinich has the reputation of holding the most left-wing congressional voting record. In fact, this “honor” goes to Kerry.

According to American Conservative Union, Kerry has a lifetime rating of 6 percent, compared to 13 for the demolished Rep. **** Gephardt, 14 for Sen. John Edwards, 15 for Kucinich and 19 for Sen. Joe Lieberman.

Sens. Hillary Clinton and Tom Daschle score 13 percent. Only the likes of Sens. Teddy Kennedy and Barbara Boxer have more left-wing records than Kerry. In contrast, Sen. John Breaux, one of the upper chamber’s few remaining moderate Democrats, has a 46.

# Drive as I say, not as I do: Like Al Gore and other self-described environmentalists, Kerry has a radical agenda that would devastate the U.S. economy in favor of the likes of communist China, yet he enjoys the gas-guzzling modern conveniences that greens denounce. Kerry, a delegate to the environment-destroying Earth Summit in 1992 (where he met his future wife, left-wing activist Teresa Heinz, the multimillionaire widow of GOP Sen. John Heinz), the Kyoto climate talks in 1997 and the Hague Conference of the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change in 2000, has attacked President Bush for withdrawing from the anti-U.S. Kyoto Protocol. This treaty, which then-President Bill Clinton had signed, would impose severe restrictions on the United States but not Third World polluters that already enjoy huge trade surpluses with the U.S.

However, although Kerry spouts the party line on anti-U.S. ecopolicy, he doesn’t like to practice what he preaches. Kerry was humiliated in April 2002 when photographed attending a rally against energy independence and then heading back to his SUV, the symbol of all that is evil to self-described greens.

# Bone to pick: Bush-hating conspiracy theorists find it alarming that the president, like his father, was a member of the secretive Skull and Bones society at Yale University. Another alum of this club: John Kerry.

# Get out your wallets: One reason Kerry and Edwards did well in Iowa: Losers Dean and Gephardt admitted they'd repeal all of the president's tax relief. However, although Kerry has taken credit for middle-class tax cuts, child tax credit and relief of the marriage penalty, he voted against them, GOP.com disclosed.

"Kerry will have to expend an awful lot of time and money to convince people that he's not the classic Massachusetts liberal," Larry Sabato, a respected political analyst at the University of Virginia, told the Associated Press in December 2002. "And that's going to be tough, because mainly he is."

# Waffling on Iraq: Kerry has the tough job of wooing Howard Dean’s anti-war Democrats despite his support of the war in Iraq. His favorite tactic, claiming the president outfoxed him, doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.

On “Meet the Press” in late August, Tim Russert played a tape of Kerry addressing the Senate in October 2002 with a hard-line speech declaring Iraq “capable of quickly producing weaponizing” of biological weapons that could be delivered against “the United States itself.”

Kerry insisted: “That is exactly the point I’m making. We were given this information by our intelligence community.”

However, as columnist Robert Novak noted, “as a senator, Kerry had access to the National Intelligence Estimate that was skeptical of Iraqi capability. Being tricky may no longer be as effective politically as it once was.”

No doubt Dean, Lieberman, Clark and other rivals will now use these and other details to do to Kerry what the Democrats did to Dean.
http://www.jwsrockgarden.com/vvaw-rc.jpg
http://www.usvetdsp.com/t_ken_ker.jpg
http://www.usvetdsp.com/ker_tken.jpg
http://www.usvetdsp.com/ker_doi.jpg
http://www.usvetdsp.com/k_arrest.jpg

[Russian Texan]

I think Kerry's "Silver Star", "Bronze Star" and three "Purple Hearts" gave him right to protest.
He spilled his blood and killed in that war, he earned the right to voice his opinion.
I am neither Republican nor Democrat, I look at the candidate's personal qualities and integrity.
So what do we have? We have two man: one has proven himself under fire and another has proven to be an idiot...the choice is yours.
The bottom line is that certain party members/supporters are feeling vulnerable now and will do/say anything to put down their opponent. Unfortunatelly for them their attempts are so obvious and pathetic it only makes it worse.

[XASA]

Geezah, I know it's your first post, but, in case you haven't notice, the forum is "militaryphotos.net" not "republicanparty.net" ;)

Frankly, I didn't like it when a few liberal forum members were bashing Bush daily because I respect the office and I don't like it now that conservative members have put Kerry in their sights.

I believe political debate is healthy and encourage it but when the debate takes the form of regurgitated smear tactics used in previous elections it stinks to high heaven.

As Kerry builds momentum I'm sure we will be seeing many, many more of these political handouts followed by equally blistering attacks against Bush. I know it's an election year so it is to be expected; however, since we in America are bombarded with political dirt from both sides in the media, one would like to think one can find refuge on a site dedicated to military issues and international affairs. I know that is not going to happen so have at it.

[Russian Texan]

Military and politics always go hand in hand ;)

You respect office, I respect person in the office (well not now, but in theory :) ) And I respect your opinion.

[Rantanplan]

Word

[SeanAshi]

It is his right to protest the Vietnam war and all
Its our right to get pissed off at him.

[martinexsquaddie]

The funny thing is nobody seems to be asking about kerry polices :roll:

[Argyll]

Like big freakin deal,the man done his bit ,unlike our clowns in office,the "New Labour"(or the CND as it used to be known)Tony "Ban the Bomb" Blair.........wouldn't know the difference between a shovel and a spade!

[Jack Mehoff]

The funny thing is nobody seems to be asking about kerry polices :roll:

Good point

[Jack Mehoff]

GO KERRY!

Sad thing is you CAN'T vote rofl

[usa320]

All i know is Bush better (an pobably will win) because the second a democrat gets back in the white house they will base their policies on their hate for bush, not common sense.

They merely want to revise history. Leave Afghanistan. **** Iraq. They want us to slip back into the negligence and ignorance of the Clinton Administration.

That cant happen again. Because the minute we no longer show we are willing to stand up and fight terrorism, they will strike again- and next time it will make 9-11 look like nothing.

[Trident-za]

We on this forum supposedly look up to BTDTs, right? We respect their EXPERIENCE, right?Or is only those BTDTs who agree with our own political opinions?

I know the Vietnam war is (still) a sensitive issue, but... this is ridiculous. The guy fought their, got a few medals, got wounded etc. How many you guys have done half of what he has? Oh but wait.... it counts for **** because he dared to develop an opinion on the war he fought in (not the war he dodged, or the war he talked about on an internet forum), and it wasn't the gung-ho opinion the military wanted him to have. I mean really, how dare he?????

I don't know if he was right or not - but he earned the right to not like the war, based on experience rather than media/political BS. Does this mean he "helped Hanoi win".... you must be joking! Personally, I'd prefer a president who has actually fought in a war - one who knows the cost (I'm not talking political) of going to war. This is extremely rare nowdays, and its bloody dangerous in my opinion....

[usa320]

The funny thing is nobody seems to be asking about kerry polices

Thats because not a single democratic candidate has laid out their policies in clear fashion. They are running their campaign merely on their hate for Bush- and to be blunt, their apparent hate for America, ignorance to the world and disrespect for our fighting men.

A candidate who runs not to make a difference but merely to piss off the last president is not even a person worth my consideration. Thats the same thing that screwed howard dean.

[XASA]

The funny thing is nobody seems to be asking about kerry polices

Thats because not a single democratic candidate has laid out their policies in clear fashion. They are running their campaign merely on their hate for Bush- and to be blunt, their apparent hate for America, ignorance to the world and disrespect for our fighting men.



usa320, your youthful zealotry should be channeled into learning more about your country instead of denigrating people because they are Democrats. To say they hate America and disrespect our fighting men is the most childish rant I've seen here in a long time-- and that takes in a lot. Who do you think fought in all our wars? Just Republicans? Get a grip kid.

[usa320]

:roll:

My zealotry? Wtf?

Its obvious that Dean and Kerry do NOT support our armed forces in Iraq.

Even ****ing Hillary clinton had the decency to visit troops in the Middle East- granted the guys booed her off stage and heckled her- but she still went there.

[Argyll]

We on this forum supposedly look up to BTDTs, right? We respect their EXPERIENCE, right?Or is only those BTDTs who agree with our own political opinions?

I know the Vietnam war is (still) a sensitive issue, but... this is ridiculous. The guy fought their, got a few medals, got wounded etc. How many you guys have done half of what he has? Oh but wait.... it counts for **** because he dared to develop an opinion on the war he fought in (not the war he dodged, or the war he talked about on an internet forum), and it wasn't the gung-ho opinion the military wanted him to have. I mean really, how dare he?????

I don't know if he was right or not - but he earned the right to not like the war, based on experience rather than media/political BS. Does this mean he "helped Hanoi win".... you must be joking! Personally, I'd prefer a president who has actually fought in a war - one who knows the cost (I'm not talking political) of going to war. This is extremely rare nowdays, and its bloody dangerous in my opinion....

I could not agree more!
Most forum members here were not even born during the Vietnam war,and yet here they are bashing someone who earned a Silver Star,and 2 Bronze Stars and a few purple hearts,just exactly what gives them that right to do so,that man bled for his country,men under his command died for it,and they have the gall to question his background........some of them need to take a good look in the mirror and ask themselves what it was they did for their country in times of war,and if they have no answer they should S T F U !!!!!!!

[Argyll]

:roll:

My zealotry? Wtf?

Its obvious that Dean and Kerry do NOT support our armed forces in Iraq.

Even f*** Hillary clinton had the decency to visit troops in the Middle East- granted the guys booed her off stage and heckled her- but she still went there.


How in the fok can you know what they are thinking ,One of them maybe the Commander in Chief in November,you trying to tell me they do not care.............wake up you're behaving like a little kid who had his ball bust by the neighbours dog!

[Geezah]

Geezah, I know it's your first post, but, in case you haven't notice, the forum is "militaryphotos.net" not "republicanparty.net" ;)

The bigger picture here is that Kerry supported a traitor(Hanoi Jane) and so endangered the troops that were still serving in Vietnam

The American people of the early 50's, and their media, often seemed unaware that they were sending young men to fight and die in Korea. But they never betrayed us.
As the investigation of No Gun Ri proceeds, it may be prudent to evaluate the objectivity of today's media. To many veterans, specific media elements during Vietnam and Iraq consistently made reports of questionable truthfulness. Some consider media treatment of Vietnam veterans as shameless character assassination. Today, the media are actually attempting to honor Jane Fonda.

In fact, as with all human activities, Ms. Fonda's actions are subject to differing interpretations. The problem is to find interpretations which suggest objectivity, the principal requirement for intellectual honesty, and the principal duty of a free press.

Jane Fonda, nee movie queen, nee pampered child of privilege, media mega-mogul Ted Turner's former spouse. In evaluating the objectivity of today's media that so often idolizes her, while keeping aware that lies are sometimes also spread against her, one basic truth should be kept in mind.

Ms. Fonda was dubbed by Viet Nam vets with another name. It shouldn't be forgotten how she earned it.

Jane Fonda gave aid and comfort to our enemy, while ordinary American citizens were fighting and dying. She did great emotional injury and injustice to all Viet Nam veterans, and their families.

Far worse, she did great harm to all American citizens, because she helped polarize us against our government, and against each other.

"Truth", is all too often only subjective opinion, even with the best of intentions. The polarization Ms. Fonda helped encourage has gone far beyond expectation of legitimate differences in interpretation, it has led to general distrust. Distrust of those with differing political and religious convictions, of those with differing skin color, of our elected officials.

One positive by-product, it has helped make us aware of the need to always keep in mind the possible bias of those empowered to decide what can be presented to us as fact and significance, in today's current events.

That is the point of this site, and its connection to No Gun Ri.
http://www.korteng.com/KWjpg/hanoijane.jpg
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http://www.1stcavmedic.com/jane_fonda.htmurl

[Royal]

@ Trident - good post mate, I agree 100%



The bigger picture here is that Kerry supported a traitor(Hanoi Jane) and so endangered the troops that were still serving in Vietnam

How?

Did he fight for them?

Did he supply them with weapons, ammunition or materiel?

Last I heard freedom of speech (and thus I guess of thought) was enshrined in the US Constitution.

[SeanAshi]

The funny thing is nobody seems to be asking about kerry polices We already know how he would handle the middle east, he would send over Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter to get the peace process going again, we already know that **** wont fly.

[Jacko]

If a man goes to war, and upon returning, decides he wants his comrades/friends/brothers to come back because he doesn't believe that the war should be fought, why shouldn't he be able to protest said war?

[SeanAshi]

why shouldn't he be able to protest said war?
The man can say whatever he wants, but we have the right to agree and disagree.

[Geezah]

@ Trident - good post mate, I agree 100%



The bigger picture here is that Kerry supported a traitor(Hanoi Jane) and so endangered the troops that were still serving in Vietnam

How?

Did he fight for them?

Did he supply them with weapons, ammunition or materiel?

Last I heard freedom of speech (and thus I guess of thought) was enshrined in the US Constitution.


I believe in freedom of speech but when it involves sleeping with the enemy...that's different.

[Ichhabe]

So Geezah. What have you done for the good of your country?

You must have done something since your balls are so hairy that you have the guts to critisise Kerry the way you do?!?

Enlighten us...

[Jack Mehoff]

Jane Fonda, OSB, Saddam Hussein are some of the most highly prize targets if you ever serve in U.S. armed forces.

Another thing i don't undestand is why foreigners in this board care who get elected for U.S. president. I mean, it's not like they(foreigners) actually make a difference anyway since they can't vote

[Jacko]

why shouldn't he be able to protest said war?
The man can say whatever he wants, but we have the right to agree and disagree.

Of course. My point was just to address some people that seem to be making the connection between being a protestor and being a dyed-in-the-wool communist bastard. Obviously, his connections to Fonda seem to help with that, but I'm going to research that a little more before I make any conclusions. However, as illustrated elsewhere, people were young and it was a difficult time back then. Everyone makes mistakes.

[SeanAshi]

Every Presidential election year is the same thing over and over, dig up the dirt, point the finger, do whatever to discredit your opponent. I don't care about Fonda, but Kerry supporting :bash: Communism.... :bash:

[Ichhabe]

Another thing i don't undestand is why foreigners in this board care who get elected for U.S. president. I mean, it's not like they(foreigners) actually make a difference anyway since they can't vote

Maybe we care on what is going on outside our neighbourhood Jack.

I've been following foreign policy since I was 7 years old.

Always liked it, always will.

And why aren't you proud that we foreigners take an interest in whats going on in your country, eh?

[Jack Mehoff]

So, should I care who is the next president in Norway? Even if I do, what can i do about it? My opinion means nothing when i can't vote

[Jacko]

What goes on in American politics can affect the entire world. It'd be irresponsible for other people and other nations to ignore what we're doing. In the case of a presidential election, it gives them something of an eye into the future based on the candidate's platforms. Am I right?

[Dennis G]

**** Fanda and Karry

You would have love to seen my father talk about her rofl rofl

[Ichhabe]

So, should I care who is the next president in Norway? Even if I do, what can i do about it? My opinion means nothing when i can't vote

You don't have to care if you don't want too.

But I see nothing wrong in having an opinion if you think it would affect you way of living.

What the President of the USA mean and what he does, has an effect even for us up north in the corner of Europe.

[Geezah]

So Geezah. What have you done for the good of your country?

You must have done something since your balls are so hairy that you have the guts to critisise Kerry the way you do?!?

Enlighten us...

Wow.....so in order for me to have a voice I need to have served for my Country???
Well Clinton did real good but that wasn't an issue for Kerry was it!

[mocking_loudly_died]

Any hot chicks to vote for?

Polices are for the weak, ****s are for the strong.

[Ichhabe]

So Geezah. What have you done for the good of your country?

You must have done something since your balls are so hairy that you have the guts to critisise Kerry the way you do?!?

Enlighten us...

Wow.....so in order for me to have a voice I need to have served for my Country???
Well Clinton did real good but that wasn't an issue for Kerry was it!

When you have the balls to critisise Kerry, and we know what he did for his country... Yeah, then you at least should have done at least something in the close neighbourhood as what Kerry did.
Next thing would be that you called him a coward. :lol:

[Geezah]

So Geezah. What have you done for the good of your country?

You must have done something since your balls are so hairy that you have the guts to critisise Kerry the way you do?!?

Enlighten us...

Wow.....so in order for me to have a voice I need to have served for my Country???
Well Clinton did real good but that wasn't an issue for Kerry was it!

When you have the balls to critisise Kerry, and we know what he did for his country... Yeah, then you at least should have done at least something in the close neighbourhood as what Kerry did.
Next thing would be that you called him a coward. :lol:


# Friendly with the enemy: Kerry’s fondness for Vietnam’s communist dictatorship, one of the most oppressive in the world, continues.

As chairman of the Select Senate Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, created in 1991 to investigate reports that U.S. prisoners of war and soldiers designated missing in action were still alive in Vietnam, Kerry badgered the panel into voting that no American servicemen remained in Vietnam.

“[N]o one in the United States Senate pushed harder to bury the POW/MIA issue, the last obstacle preventing normalization of relations with Hanoi, than John Forbes Kerry,” noted U.S. Veteran Dispatch.

“But Kerry's participation in the Committee became controversial in December 1992,” reported the nonpartisan Center for Public Integrity, “when Hanoi announced that it had awarded Colliers International, a Boston-based real estate company, an exclusive deal to develop its commercial real estate potentially worth billions. Stuart Forbes, the CEO of Colliers, is Kerry's cousin.”

The “odd coincidence,” according to FrontPageMagazine.com, involved a deal worth $905 million.

Jeff Jacoby, the token conservative columnist at the Boston Globe, notes that Kerry continues his apologia for Vietnam's never-ending atrocities. "Far from taking the lead on the Vietnam Human Rights Bill, he has prevented it from coming to a vote. He claims that making an issue of Hanoi's repression would be counterproductive."

Having met a Vietnam Vet in Washinton(in 89) that was handing out litratue that highlighted the POW/MIA issue I think coward would be the last word I would use to describe him!

[ibstolidude]

Although Kerry has every right to his opnions and expression there of if conducted legally as it appears he did. Just as those who disagree with his philosophies have the right to consider his ideaologies of that era when casting their ballots (primaries/presidential).

I think anyone who serves his country with honor (military and civil service included) deserves respect, especially when serving in a time of war. But that should not however I feel preclude anyone from disagreeing with the choices he made post service.

[Tane Angle]

One thing I wanted to add: It was the Republicans who abandoned our people in Vietnam and Laos. Perhaps as many as 500 POWs, and it was under Ronald Reagan's watch (and on his orders) that the rescue was twice aborted after being sabotaged on the orders of Reagan and key Senators. So I'm pretty incredulous when people say that Republicans are necessarily good for the military. Kerry was right in saying that there were no POWs left in Vietnam in 1991. They were executed in 1983, having been imprisoned for close to twenty years for some in Laos. Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[SeanAshi]

What goes on in American politics can affect the entire world. It'd be irresponsible for other people and other nations to ignore what we're doing. In the case of a presidential election, it gives them something of an eye into the future based on the candidate's platforms. Am I right?
There are millions of issues at hand, President Bush can't do everything, if its not one thing its another...Alot hate Presidents Bushs unconditional support of Israel, Israel is a major allie and The United States will never comprimize Israels security, just as the Saudis support the Palestinians.

Although Kerry has every right to his opnions and expression there of if conducted legally as it appears he did.
I wonder if Kerry was waving around the Vietnamese flag like other hippy scum at the time.

[California Joe]

I was born in '62. The last official year of the baby boom. If you weren't born before me Shut the F*ck up about Vietnam. Gee the Democrats have a war hero candidate, lets see how we can label him because the Republican President was drunk that year. Pathetic logic.

[Salty Dog]

I think Kerry's "Silver Star", "Bronze Star" and three "Purple Hearts" gave him right to protest.
He spilled his blood and killed in that war, he earned the right to voice his opinion.
I am neither Republican nor Democrat, I look at the candidate's personal qualities and integrity.
So what do we have? We have two man: one has proven himself under fire and another has proven to be an idiot...the choice is yours.
The bottom line is that certain party members/supporters are feeling vulnerable now and will do/say anything to put down their opponent. Unfortunatelly for them their attempts are so obvious and pathetic it only makes it worse.

i agree.

[Jack Mehoff]

Most hated people in America:
1)Politicians
2)Lawyers

Most respected
1)Military officers
2)Doctors

[Argyll]

Most hated people in America:
1)Politicians
2)Lawyers

Most respected
1)Military officers
2)Doctors


Probably the same here in the UK Jack

Struck it Lucky if your a Surgeon General! ;)

[SeanAshi]

He spilled his blood and killed in that war, he earned the right to voice his opinion.
Everyone has a right to voice their opinion reguardles

[California Joe]

Have an opinion, don't assume you have the right to denigrate the service of a guy who won medals in combat because he decided a bull**** war wasn't worth seeing his pals dying in. Times change and hindsight is 20/20

[Truthsayer]

He spilled his blood and killed in that war, he earned the right to voice his opinion.
Everyone has a right to voice their opinion reguardles


Cocksucker!!

TP

Every man is equal - some more the others.

[kinghk]

GO KERRY!


you know what? you want kerry to succeed because he would destroy america. why don't YOU vote for him, asshole? oh wait, you in f***ing sweden, where it is legal to have *** with animals!!!!!! :bash: :-*$

How is the *** thing related to mustamatos views on politics?

[SeanAshi]

I was making the comment about the hippy protesters who were flying the Communist Vietnamese flag in our nations capital, I even saw pictures of North Korean, Chinese, and the Soviet Union flags

[11F5S]

Have an opinion, don't assume you have the right to denigrate the service of a guy who won medals in combat because he decided a bull**** war wasn't worth seeing his pals dying in. Times change and hindsight is 20/20

Amen!

[kinghk]

So, should I care who is the next president in Norway? Even if I do, what can i do about it? My opinion means nothing when i can't vote

Presidents in a monarchy is quite unusual.

[11F5S]

XASA, my dad is a nam vet and hes pissed, he said kerry is no better then those hippys who called him and his buddies comming home a baby eater and is like spitting in his face.

I'd guess that I spent a heck of a lot more time in Nam than your old man and I'm not pissed at Sen. Kerry. The old story of how hippys spit in soldiers faces has been overplayed way too much.



My dad didnt like the war either but when his service was over and he was home he didn't go to rallys out of respect for his comrades serving overseas.

There is very little to like about war. Some people are more dedicated to their convictions than others.



Personally, if he happens to become president and he is my commander in chief I hope his hippyness is all out of him.

There is a big difference between speaking out against a war/government policies and being a hippy....John Kerry a hippy!...now that is funny .

I hope you get a little more edumaction before you ever put on a military uniform.

[11F5S]

deleted

[Tane Angle]

There is a big difference between speaking out against a war/government policies and being a hippy woot

[Cael]

"One thing I wanted to add: It was the Republicans who abandoned our people in Vietnam and Laos. Perhaps as many as 500 POWs, and it was under Ronald Reagan's watch (and on his orders) that the rescue was twice aborted after being sabotaged on the orders of Reagan and key Senators. So I'm pretty incredulous when people say that Republicans are necessarily good for the military. Kerry was right in saying that there were no POWs left in Vietnam in 1991. They were executed in 1983, having been imprisoned for close to twenty years for some in Laos. Have a good one, and just some thoughts..."

I remember reading a little on this, but was it really the orders of Reagan? I know I read that it was by people in high ranks not just in senate but also in the military. There was also part of that matter in Haney's book.


Edited: Man I need to learn how to put quotes.

[Tane Angle]

Just highlight it and press "quote." Any yes, Eric Haney talks about it some, as do a few other authors. To be honest, I haven't got a clue who was pushing it totally, but I do know that the order could have come from the NCA-both the Secretary of Defense and the President. I hate to say it, but that's that. Heartbreaking stuff. Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[ArmedPacifist]

Jane Fonda was pretty hot.

[Cael]

Just highlight it and press "quote." Any yes, Eric Haney talks about it some, as do a few other authors. To be honest, I haven't got a clue who was pushing it totally, but I do know that the order could have come from the NCA-both the Secretary of Defense and the President. I hate to say it, but that's that. Heartbreaking stuff. Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

Sweet thanks. Yeah it is heartbreaking stuff. I hate to hear it. But like Haney said, (I probably won't say it on the dot) but the government is made up of many people, and not all those people are perfect. Or something like that... you get the point :|

[Cael]

AP I was just thinking that too. WAS...

[Merik]

Veterans? Which veterans? They should check their facts.

Unlike Kerry, who really went to Vietnam and served there, Bush is a chickenhawk AWOL warrior.
I wouldn't want to be led by a person who was seeking shelter behind the backs of others who went to war to fight and die.

Show me proof that Bush was AWOL and a coward. Did you know Kerry said on the record that he was always against the war in Vietnam? What does that make him? A man that was in the wrong places at the right time?

[Merik]

So Geezah. What have you done for the good of your country?

You must have done something since your balls are so hairy that you have the guts to critisise Kerry the way you do?!?

Enlighten us...

Wow.....so in order for me to have a voice I need to have served for my Country???
Well Clinton did real good but that wasn't an issue for Kerry was it!

Clinton did real good? Hahahaha thats some of the biggest bs I've heard out of this tpoic.

[Cael]

I think he was being sarcastic. But I could be wrong.

[Tommy Gunn]

Have an opinion, don't assume you have the right to denigrate the service of a guy who won medals in combat because he decided a bull**** war wasn't worth seeing his pals dying in. Times change and hindsight is 20/20


Kerry threw away those medals on the white house lawn and denounced his service in Vietnam.

He turned, like another Amerian war hero named Benedict Arnold.

[Tommy Gunn]

Ever notice that John Kerry's most vocal supporters on this forum are the same pinkos that have been supporting the saddam fedayeen in Iraq?

[Ichhabe]

Ever notice that John Kerry's most vocal supporters on this forum are the same pinkos that have been supporting the saddam fedayeen in Iraq?

And that would be????

[Tommy Gunn]

Ever notice that John Kerry's most vocal supporters on this forum are the same pinkos that have been supporting the saddam fedayeen in Iraq?

And that would be????

Most of the Euro-Trash on this forum.

[Ichhabe]

Ever notice that John Kerry's most vocal supporters on this forum are the same pinkos that have been supporting the saddam fedayeen in Iraq?

And that would be????

Most of the Euro-Trash on this forum.

Hehe... That reply is really bad dodging...

[glofs]

I don't want to spend time reading five pages of bs to see if this link have been posted before...

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry.asp



Claim: Photograph shows Senator John Kerry at a 1970 anti-war rally.
Status: Undetermined.
...
The image shows no obvious signs of digital manipulation.

The person pictured in the background (just above Jane Fonda's head) looks like a young John Kerry, who was 26 years old in 1970 (see photo at right.)

The Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), an anti-war group with which Kerry was affiliated, held a rally in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, on 7 September 1970.

Actress Jane Fonda was present at the Valley Forge rally. (She was not yet known as "Hanoi Jane," however, as her infamous trip to North Vietnam did not occur until two years later.)

[Royal]

Ever notice that John Kerry's most vocal supporters on this forum are the same pinkos that have been supporting the saddam fedayeen in Iraq?

And that would be????

Most of the Euro-Trash on this forum.

Hehe... That reply is really bad dodging...

Don't bite mate - to most of the yank extremists (Tommy Gunn, Sixgun, USA320 et al) we're pinko eurotrash scum. The Yanks who have actually served know the score (Sixgun seems to be an exception, but hey he was a squid (no offence trigger)).

[Maj C]

"One thing I wanted to add: It was the Republicans who abandoned our people in Vietnam and Laos. Perhaps as many as 500 POWs, and it was under Ronald Reagan's watch (and on his orders) that the rescue was twice aborted after being sabotaged on the orders of Reagan and key Senators. So I'm pretty incredulous when people say that Republicans are necessarily good for the military. Kerry was right in saying that there were no POWs left in Vietnam in 1991. They were executed in 1983, having been imprisoned for close to twenty years for some in Laos. Have a good one, and just some thoughts..."

I remember reading a little on this, but was it really the orders of Reagan? I know I read that it was by people in high ranks not just in senate but also in the military. There was also part of that matter in Haney's book.





This is almost as believable as "Operation Tailwind"...you people must have supported Bo Gritz's expeditions to find them too.

[Tane Angle]

Kerry threw his medals down as an act of protest, not as a sign of treason. Several Delta operators sued the US government, throwing away their careers and medals, but does that make them traitors? Treason is a very strong charge, and I don't think Kerry committed that crime. Conversely, if Kerry's protest was treasonous, then Bush is guilty of treason, for lack of a sufficiently proactive antiterrorism effort. I'm not saying that Bush actually committed treason so much as trying to say how ludicrous treason charges against Kerry sound.

Also, can we lay off anti-homo****** terms like "pinko," please? And I'm a hetero****** American man with over 30 years experience in the US Army, 28 in active duty units, nearly all of which were line combat units. And I am now pro-Kerry. And I sure as heck have never supported the fedayeen. What I'm trying to say is that I'm not a pinko, I'm not Eurotrash, I'm not a terrorist supporter. So just what are you insinuating, sir? Where do I fit in to your generalization? Where does my much-esteemed friend Argyll? Or Ichhabe?

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[Tane Angle]

Maj C, are you asking if I supported Bo Gritz in his post-war actions in that area? Or speaking sarcastically about them? Thanks.

By the way, I don't think we've met. Welcome aboard (belatedly). US Army? When and with who, if you don't mind my asking. If you do, just ignore those questions, please.

Thanks again. Have a good one.

[Maj C]

I give credit to Kerry for going but I don't particularly find him any better than GW. He's just another rich white guy - Yale, Skull and Keys, etc. two sides of the same coin as far as I'm concerned - my vote's for Reverand Al Sharpton!!! at least he's got soul! Fight the power!!!

I did my Grad thesis at Naval Postgrad School on how Marine officers voted in 2000. 8 to 1 for Bush. Mainly due to self-selection - more conservatives join than liberals. Also many were disenchanted with service during the Clinton years. I work with the budget now and they call the Clinton terms a "procurement holiday" i.e. We didn't buy any new gear during his terms. Also, anecdottaly, although the Dems are no less patriotic - there is a perception that they are anti-military. Of course the USMC plays all congressmen equally since we need their support for funding but on a personal level there was a feeling of disrespect during Dem administrations. 2 incidents early in the Clinton admin highlighted this - first a young female staffer told a general in the white house that she didn't talk to people in uniform like it disgusted her, second they told military aides to hand out hors d,oeurves at a Dem party fundraiser. HMX pilots said Reagan used to invite them to watch movies, Bush Sr used to play volleball with them, Clinton didn't give them the time of day. If you go to the Quantico O Club - there's pics of every president with an HMX bird - there's a blank space where Clinton's pic was.

[Geezah]

So Geezah. What have you done for the good of your country?

You must have done something since your balls are so hairy that you have the guts to critisise Kerry the way you do?!?

Enlighten us...

Wow.....so in order for me to have a voice I need to have served for my Country???
Well Clinton did real good but that wasn't an issue for Kerry was it!

Clinton did real good? Hahahaha thats some of the biggest bs I've heard out of this tpoic.

As cael said, I was being sarcaRstic.....Clinton was draft dodging at the time of the Vietnam War but Kerry had no problem with that when he backed Clinton!

[Maj C]

I'm still active duty USMC - stuck in cubicle hell in Quantico....

and yes I was being sarcastic about Bo Gritz. I'm just not a believer in the POW/MIA crusade - I think it's just a movement that preys on the families of dead men.

[Geezah]

Kerry threw his medals down as an act of protest, not as a sign of treason. Several Delta operators sued the US government, throwing away their careers and medals, but does that make them traitors? Treason is a very strong charge, and I don't think Kerry committed that crime. Conversely, if Kerry's protest was treasonous, then Bush is guilty of treason, for lack of a sufficiently proactive antiterrorism effort. I'm not saying that Bush actually committed treason so much as trying to say how ludicrous treason charges against Kerry sound.

Also, can we lay off anti-homo****** terms like "pinko," please? And I'm a hetero****** American man with over 30 years experience in the US Army, 28 in active duty units, nearly all of which were line combat units. And I am now pro-Kerry. And I sure as heck have never supported the fedayeen. What I'm trying to say is that I'm not a pinko, I'm not Eurotrash, I'm not a terrorist supporter. So just what are you insinuating, sir? Where do I fit in to your generalization? Where does my much-esteemed friend Argyll? Or Ichhabe?

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

# Throw as I say, not as I do: On that same day he led members of VVAW in a protest during which they threw their medals and ribbons over a fence in front of the U.S. Capitol.

Kerry later admitted the medals he threw were not his. To this day they hang on the wall of his office.

[Geezah]

Kerry threw his medals down as an act of protest, not as a sign of treason. Several Delta operators sued the US government, throwing away their careers and medals, but does that make them traitors? Treason is a very strong charge, and I don't think Kerry committed that crime. Conversely, if Kerry's protest was treasonous, then Bush is guilty of treason, for lack of a sufficiently proactive antiterrorism effort. I'm not saying that Bush actually committed treason so much as trying to say how ludicrous treason charges against Kerry sound.

Also, can we lay off anti-homo****** terms like "pinko," please? And I'm a hetero****** American man with over 30 years experience in the US Army, 28 in active duty units, nearly all of which were line combat units. And I am now pro-Kerry. And I sure as heck have never supported the fedayeen. What I'm trying to say is that I'm not a pinko, I'm not Eurotrash, I'm not a terrorist supporter. So just what are you insinuating, sir? Where do I fit in to your generalization? Where does my much-esteemed friend Argyll? Or Ichhabe?

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...


Sen. John McCain revealed that his North Vietnamese captors had used reports of Kerry-led protests to taunt him and his fellow prisoners. Retired General George S. Patton III angrily noted that Kerry’s actions had “given aid and comfort to the enemy.”

[hank]

Someone should dig into this -- Fonda was paying for the protests, which Kerry organized. There is clearly a much stronger tie between them, then just "accidentally" being at the same protest.

Is Kerry a Manchurian Candidate?

Cleary he is a Manchurian Candidate, thank GOD that this forum exists so that geniuses like Tommy Gun can conduct these highly organized and cedible "investigations" into this obviously communist behavior.

On a side note, Manchurian Candidate is a fantastic movie. Angela Lansbury before she was Angela Lansbury and she is ans EVIL BITCH. Definitely check out that movie if you have not seen it.

hank

[hank]

Ever notice that John Kerry's most vocal supporters on this forum are the same pinkos that have been supporting the saddam fedayeen in Iraq?

Genius. Who here supports the Fadayeen? I am sure you have an agenda, I'm just too f _ _ king smart to figure it out. Why don't you enlighten us. Maek the correlation b/w Kerry supporter and fedayeen supporter. That would be really entertaining.

Kerry fought in that war and has a right to his opinion about it. just b/c you, and I for that matter, disagree wit hKerry does not give you the right to make remarks that Kerry supporters (misguided though I think they are) = Fedayenn supporters.

Grow up. Maybe even try to read something once in a while. It might even help.

hank

[XASA]

To put Kerry's post-military career into perspective, here is a refresher course on those divisive times.

Nixon, who had ran in 1968, had promised to end the war when he was campaigning but, like another Republican President, lied, and the war would continue for another seven years even though most people realized it was unjust and unwinnable.

Nixon was also reaching out to Russia and China, the two most powerful communist countries in the world, while telling folks how dangerous the small, agricultural nation of North Vietnam was to our security.

I was an E-6 with five years in the Army with plans to be a 30-year man when I got my orders for Vietnam in September 1970. To say I was pissed off would be an understatement. So pissed in fact, that when my tour ended I left the service in 1971. Funny thing though, if I had received orders for the 'Nam in 1965, I wouldn't have been angry; in fact, I would either been highly decorated or in a body bag trying to prove my bravery. That's the difference in being 18 and 23 years old-- maturity.

It was not a war America could be proud of. However, America should be proud of the men who went there without the support of their fellow citizens.

Although I was not a member of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, I certainly respected their stand on the war and their bravery for stating it in public forums.

When I see the support the troops are getting in Iraq, I become even more pissed at the lack of support we had, but I understand why we didn't have that support and don't hold it against anyone.

I think one of the reasons people are attracted to Kerry is because of the Republican Party's continued divisive tactics. When some punk throws around the label of "pinko" because someone disagrees with him it makes me sick and frightened for the future of our great country. These kids have been spoonfed all their lives on a diet of political hate and right wing idealogy and don't have the intelligence to form their own opinion. A sad state of affairs.

And if you reactionary a**holes think we're supporters of the Iraqi oppostion, I suggest you take the time to read the previous posts made by folks like Tane, Royal and myself before you start your mudslinging.

[Trident-za]

Damn fine post XASA!! I'm gonna have to add you to my list of people to "listen to carefully"... (its a very small list, :lol: )

Especially this part:

I think one of the reasons people are attracted to Kerry is because of the Republican Party's continued divisive tactics. When some punk throws around the label of "pinko" because someone disagrees with him it makes me sick and frightened for the future of our great country. These kids have been spoonfed all their lives on a diet of political hate and right wing idealogy and don't have the intelligence to form their own opinion. A sad state of affairs.

And if you reactionary a**holes think we're supporters of the Iraqi oppostion, I suggest you take the time to read the previous posts made by folks like Tane, Royal and myself before you start your mudslinging.

[hank]

Sorry XASA - I appreciate what you did. Not right the way Vietnam vets have been treated. thanks

hank

[Tane Angle]

XASA, I think we need a handshake smiley face. Trident-za, XASA's definitely on my smart list.

Maj C, glad to hear it was sarcasm. (wipe the sweat off my brow)Personally, I don't think there's anything left to crusade about. It's a tragedy and a scar that perhaps will never, and perhaps should never, be healed. They're dead, nothing we can do for them now, except take care of the families left behind. And we can not screw up again. Anyways, sorry to hear that about your cubicle troubles. And I tip my hat to you for your service in the Marines. They're a great branch, smart folks from what I've seen. Drop me a line sometime, buddy.

Note to some of our friends here: Scott Speicher was left to rot in Iraq under two Republican and one Democrat Presidents. From what I understand, intelligence indicated he was alive as of at least the winter of 2001-2002. Ten years in Iraq. Neither of the Bushes nor Clinton did much of anything about him. So much for learning from our mistakes. And they are our mistakes, as a nation and a people. To be a people, to be a nation, there must be loyalty. Where was the loyalty to Scott Speicher? Yeah, yeah, there were politican and diplomatic issues. That's a pretty sorry excuse though.

Also, so what if Kerry bought spare medals? A while back I went to a funeral for a young man I knew who's life dream was to be a paratrooper. He'd been into drugs and partying what too much, but he straightened out just so that he could get his airborne contract. He was killed in a car accident about a week before he was to ship out to Jump School. He really wanted his wings, so I left a set of them at a memorial to him. However, I still have wings of my own to wear on my uniform when I need to wear it. I've done the same at other points in my career, as a sign of respect. Am I wrong to do that? Is Kerry wrong to buy an extra set of medals?

Have a good one, and as always, just some thoughts...

[Maj C]

I strongly disagree that Vietnam was both unjust and unwinnable. One only has to visit Little Saigon in Westminster, CA to know that those people didn't want to live under a Communist regime. We won Vietnam but didn't have the stomach to maintain our presence like we did in Korea. "Unheralded Victory" is a great book, so is "Stolen Valor" - debunks a lot of the myths.

I took a class in Berkeley that was taught by a "Special Forces" Vietnam vet who refused to use the terms North or South Vietnamese and felt it was unjust etc etc we supported the wrong people yadda yadda yadda. There was a Vietnamese boat kid sitting in the class who didn't even understand enough English to comprehend what this joker was spouting. but I pointed to him and said if the communists were so great why did this kid risk his life to leave and come here??? silence....

[ittnofjas]

And where was Georgeous Bush...?

Apparently not where he was supposed to be, in 'nam....

[hank]

And where is ittnofjas? - I scandinavia? WTF? Bush served. Get it. Why is this an issue when Clinton did not even serve? B/c the media makes it one and you are not cognizant enough to recognize the forces at play. Why does it even matter? What is the relevance?

WTF does ittnofjas even mean?

Supposed to be in nam? - where does that come from? Who said he was supposed to be in nam?

jeez

hank

[XASA]

I strongly disagree that Vietnam was both unjust and unwinnable. One only has to visit Little Saigon in Westminster, CA to know that those people didn't want to live under a Communist regime. We won Vietnam but didn't have the stomach to maintain our presence like we did in Korea. "Unheralded Victory" is a great book, so is "Stolen Valor" - debunks a lot of the myths.

I took a class in Berkeley that was taught by a "Special Forces" Vietnam vet who refused to use the terms North or South Vietnamese and felt it was unjust etc etc we supported the wrong people yadda yadda yadda. There was a Vietnamese boat kid sitting in the class who didn't even understand enough English to comprehend what this joker was spouting. but I pointed to him and said if the communists were so great why did this kid risk his life to leave and come here??? silence....

Maj C, I thought the war was unjust based on my study of Vietnamese history, too. Why were we there? The "Domino Theory" was proven to be bogus. What was America's interest in Vietnam aside from an idealogical disagreement? One can argue, however, that the stand we made in Vietnam made other communist countries pause in any attempt to expand their spheres of influence because they knew America would react militarily, especially in regards to Berlin, where I was also stationed.

Vietnam is a very nationalistic country that had fought for its freedom several times over the centuries and the communists were able to tap into that nationalism. Perhaps the reason your SF vet teacher thought we supported the wrong people was because of the graft, lack of commitment and the illegal nullification of the 1954 Geneva Accords for elections by the South. Since he was in the sh**, I respect his opinion more than those of armchair strategists with 20-20 hindsight.

I agree that militarily we won all the battles. That really didn't matter, though, in the end because we gave in to political pressure to bring our involvement to an end, so we lost the war.

I also agree that given the choice between communism and capitalism, the latter wins hands down as proven by the fall of the Soviet Union. Unfortunately, Vietnam was never able to go that route of peaceful change due to the machinations of American policy makers and their puppet South Vietnamese allies. Vietnam today has taken the initial steps towards a capitalistic society and are presently trying to broaden its trade with the U.S.

Also, the cost of waging war was so excessive as to make it implausible to continue. If we had spent the money on humanitarian aid instead of military devastation maybe we could have save more than 50,000 American and a million Vietnamese lives.

Finally, I hope you will never be in the position of having the choose between serving your country and serving your conscious.

[hank]

"Finally, I hope you will never be in the position of having the choose between serving your country and serving your conscious."

amen brother

hank

[Geezah]

Also, so what if Kerry bought spare medals? A while back I went to a funeral for a young man I knew who's life dream was to be a paratrooper. He'd been into drugs and partying what too much, but he straightened out just so that he could get his airborne contract. He was killed in a car accident about a week before he was to ship out to Jump School. He really wanted his wings, so I left a set of them at a memorial to him. However, I still have wings of my own to wear on my uniform when I need to wear it. I've done the same at other points in my career, as a sign of respect. Am I wrong to do that? Is Kerry wrong to buy an extra set of medals?

Have a good one, and as always, just some thoughts...


Kerry didn't throw HIS medals over the wall, anyway. He was forced to admit they were someone else's medals.

Buying medals to throw is one thing, but when you throw medals that aren't yours and then make out to the media they were is real uncool!

[Maj C]

I agree the Vietnamese had a long history of wanting to be an independent nation and rightfully so...the question was whether it was under a brutal communist regime or under a corrupt capitalistic one. We know from Korea and Taiwan how that works out. Quality of life and individual freedom would still be better if we had fought.

The reason I put "Special Forces" in quotes is because I think he was full of it and probably had never been to Vietnam, just like the other 90% of jokers who come up to me and wanna tell me about the "black ops" they did over in the Nam man...

[California Joe]

Maj C's last statement reminds me of an article I read yesterday on the Early Bird about people claiming and wearing medals they didn't earn. According to Virginia tax records 642 people claimed to be Medal of Honor winners last year. They get tax breaks and free hunting licenses etc. According to actual military records there are 4 living Medal of Honor winners in the state and only 132 living in the entire country. Assheads.

[Royal]

Thanks Tane as ever for your posts, and also thank you Maj C.

For once Tane, I disagree with you. I was still playing with lego when when the US pulled out of Vietnam, and I'm a Brit, but I do think that it was (at one point) a winnable war. The 'Domino theory' is certainly debatable, but the number of people who tried to get out of all communist regimes showed/show the value in fighting communisim.

That said, in a free country, a war cannot be won without the support of the people - the real problem with Vietnam.

I also have my doubts about Iraq. I do not beleive it was a threat to the US and UK (although it may still have been to it's neighbours), although Sada'am was certainly an evil dictator. It was contained by embargoes and the no-fly zones. IMHO we should have played a long game.

That said, I have now been out there twice and although there are problems, they are not insurmountable - with good leadership, better intelligence and most importantly the support of those at home.

We need a sea change, and I'm afraid we are not going to have it.

[NcDeuce]

http://www.newsmax.com/images/headlines/Fonda_Kerry_arrow.jpg
Actress and activist Jane Fonda attends an anti-Vietnam War rally at Valley Forge, Pennsylvania. The rally was sponsored by Vietnam veterans. John Kerry can be seen directly in the background. 1970 Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, USA


*full story* (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040210-094330-7435r.htm)

Photo of Kerry with Fonda enrages Vietnam veterans
Washington Times ^ | 2/10/04 | Stephen Dinan

Posted on 02/10/2004 9:23:27 PM PST by kattracks



Photo of Kerry with Fonda enrages Vietnam veterans
Washington Times | 2/10/04 | Stephen Dinan

A photograph of Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts together with Jane Fonda at an anti-Vietnam war rally in 1970 in Pennsylvania has surfaced on the Internet, angering veterans who say his association with her 34 years ago is a slap in the faces of Vietnam War veterans.
The photograph, taken at a Labor Day rally at Valley Forge, has been circulating across the Internet, particularly among veterans. It was posted Monday on the NewsMax.com Web site.
Mr. Kerry spoke at the 1970 rally, the culmination of a three-day protest hike from Moorestown, N.J., to Valley Forge, which featured a speech by Miss Fonda and a reading by Hollywood actor Donald Sutherland.


More proof that Kerry sucks.

[Sixgun Symphony]

For once Tane, I disagree with you. I was still playing with lego when when the US pulled out of Vietnam, and I'm a Brit, but I do think that it was (at one point) a winnable war. .

The Vietnam war was really lost when president Truman pulled Gen. MacArthur from the Korea war to keep US from victory.

Simply put, the politicians wanted 'containment' rather than victory.

General MacArthur said there is no substitute for victory and he was proved right when the politicians policy of containment failed in Southeast Asia.

[Sixgun Symphony]

Maj C's last statement reminds me of an article I read yesterday on the Early Bird about people claiming and wearing medals they didn't earn. According to Virginia tax records 642 people claimed to be Medal of Honor winners last year. They get tax breaks and free hunting licenses etc. According to actual military records there are 4 living Medal of Honor winners in the state and only 132 living in the entire country. Assheads.

There oughtta be some prosecutions for that kind of fraud.

[Tane Angle]

Well, thanks for disagreeing with me guys. Nice to get some feedback. But I should mention that I don't think the war was unwinnable, I meant that Kerry thought so. Personally, I think the big army should never have gone there, and that the White Star teams should have been used as a model for warfare in SE Asia. Later in the war, the Son Tay raid was a model, but one that was refused to be realized by some. Had SACSA Blackburn and others gotten there northern operations approved, things might have been very different. Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[Royal]

Back to normal :D

Sorry mate, I misunderstood you.

[Tane Angle]

Not at all bud, rereading my post, I would have thought the same thing. Sorry for the confusion.

[11F5S]

Personally, I think the big army should never have gone there.

That has always been my personal belief. I was in the RVN in an advisory role long before the White House decided we needed to fight the war for them.

The people of a country have to have the determination and willingness to fight for themselves in a civil war.....Equip them, train them, advise, and assist them...but don't try to fight their battles for them.

[Argyll]

http://www.newsmax.com/images/headlines/Fonda_Kerry_arrow.jpg
Actress and activist Jane Fonda attends an anti-Vietnam War rally at Valley Forge, Pennsylvania. The rally was sponsored by Vietnam veterans. John Kerry can be seen directly in the background. 1970 Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, USA


*full story* (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040210-094330-7435r.htm)

Photo of Kerry with Fonda enrages Vietnam veterans
Washington Times ^ | 2/10/04 | Stephen Dinan

Posted on 02/10/2004 9:23:27 PM PST by kattracks



Photo of Kerry with Fonda enrages Vietnam veterans
Washington Times | 2/10/04 | Stephen Dinan

A photograph of Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts together with Jane Fonda at an anti-Vietnam war rally in 1970 in Pennsylvania has surfaced on the Internet, angering veterans who say his association with her 34 years ago is a slap in the faces of Vietnam War veterans.
The photograph, taken at a Labor Day rally at Valley Forge, has been circulating across the Internet, particularly among veterans. It was posted Monday on the NewsMax.com Web site.
Mr. Kerry spoke at the 1970 rally, the culmination of a three-day protest hike from Moorestown, N.J., to Valley Forge, which featured a speech by Miss Fonda and a reading by Hollywood actor Donald Sutherland.


More proof that Kerry sucks.


Just wait till you've been in your first serious firefight in some Godforsaken land that nobody can ****ounce,where half your team have their guts spilled out on the ground,and they're lokking at you for answers,and you have no clue where the fire is coming from,the noise the confusion,the screams.........untill you've earned a Silver star I'd suggest you ,supposedly being Future Officer material,keep your immature trap shut! ;)

[11F5S]

Argyll,

Well put my friend.


Is this officer material?


Any of you guys have embarrassing or odd moments this week?

I did...I ran into the ROTC Armory to use the restroom. It's a 1940s era building so the room or area with toilets just had a curtain as the 'door' and a large wall between the toilets. Well, someone was using the first one so I looked and saw no one at the 2nd one. I walk up and behold...it was the Lt. Col. OopsBigTime. He was like hiding or something behind the wall and putting his pants on. I just kind of walk slowly back and out of the restroom.

Embarrassed by seeing an LTC putting on his pants!!! :oops:

:cantbeli:

[NcDeuce]

Is it not a gentleman-like thing to say, "I'm sorry sir" and wait for the toilet users to finish? What do you think I should have done then?

[ibstolidude]

Is it not a gentleman-like thing to say, "I'm sorry sir" and wait for the toilet users to finish? What do you think I should have done then?
see that's the difference..

I would have asked
"What the **** is taking so long, sir? You gotta towed jumper?"

or
"No OPORD needed, sir; just flush and they will go where they are supposed to."

or
"Flush twice sir, it is a long way to hq/chowhall/insert favorite command (ie flush twice, COSCOM is on the other side of post)."

or
"teamwork, hooah!" then piss into the toilet he is at.

[Uncle Sam]

Is it not a gentleman-like thing to say, "I'm sorry sir" and wait for the toilet users to finish? What do you think I should have done then?

"Get out of the way, sir, or I'm gonna piss on your leg!"

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

How come yours is bigger than mine is that a rank thing.

[Royal]

Is it not a gentleman-like thing to say, "I'm sorry sir" and wait for the toilet users to finish? What do you think I should have done then?

Like has been said.

You gotta lot of learning to do...

[NcDeuce]

Just wait till you've been in your first serious firefight in some Godforsaken land that nobody can ****ounce,where half your team have their guts spilled out on the ground,and they're lokking at you for answers,and you have no clue where the fire is coming from,the noise the confusion,the screams.........untill you've earned a Silver star

http://www.newsmax.com/images/headlines/Fonda_Kerry_arrow.jpg

I see what your point is but just because one hasn't earned a Silver Star doesn't mean his or her opinion doesn't mean anything. Many soldiers who were in that 'Godforsaken land' with 'guts spilled out on the ground' did not come home to attend an lonly Peace works' Jane Fonda, smoke pot and orgy convention.

While Kerry is sitting in the grass and listening to worthless hippy ****...there were men...probably men who Kerry fought with...still over in Vietnam...in those camps...does McCain perhaps ring a bell?

[NcDeuce]

Is it not a gentleman-like thing to say, "I'm sorry sir" and wait for the toilet users to finish? What do you think I should have done then?

Like has been said.

You gotta lot of learning to do...

What the f*** did I do wrong, Albert Einstein?

[ibstolidude]

Piss in the sink then when he walks out say, "with all due respect, Sir, you gonna wash your filthy hands? Disease is the number 1 combat killer in history."

Swing open the stall door and yell out - "FIRE FOR EFFECT" with your **** in your hand.

If you hand been truely crafty you would have backed out, opened and closed the bathroom door (as if you left) then said in a deeper voice to another occupant, "Did LTC xxxx's daughter really give your **** the itch, Cadet xxxx?"
then bolt.

[NcDeuce]

Piss in the sink then when he walks out say, "Sir, you gonna wash you hands? Disease is the number 1 combat killer in history."

Swing open the stall door and yell out - "FIRE FOR EFFECT" with your **** in your hand.

If you hand been truely crafty you would have backed out, opened and closed the bathroom door (as if you left) then said in a deeper voice to another occupant, "Did LTC xxxx's daughter really give your **** the itch?" then bolt.

Maybe some other LTC's but not our XO. No kids. Hardcore Southern Baptist. Hooah Hooah Hooah Hooah Hooah and more Hooah. Mountain Dew is as hard as it gets for his beverages. Crap is a bad word. :| Not what you expect from Infantry.

[ibstolidude]

Piss in the sink then when he walks out say, "Sir, you gonna wash you hands? Disease is the number 1 combat killer in history."

Swing open the stall door and yell out - "FIRE FOR EFFECT" with your **** in your hand.

If you hand been truely crafty you would have backed out, opened and closed the bathroom door (as if you left) then said in a deeper voice to another occupant, "Did LTC xxxx's daughter really give your **** the itch?" then bolt.

Maybe some other LTC's but not our XO. No kids. Hardcore Southern Baptist. Mountain Dew is as hard as it gets for his beverages. Crap is a bad word. :| Not what you expect from Infantry.

True one must know your target audiences: fire and brimstone type
next time try,

"Be gone you evil scourge of my bowels, you vile plague of the VasDeferens, let your waste store not in my vestibule." then piss.
then pray when complete.

I never trust soldiers that don't curse. Eventually maybe but I have immediate distrust.

[Beowulf]

Is it not a gentleman-like thing to say, "I'm sorry sir" and wait for the toilet users to finish? What do you think I should have done then?
see that's the difference..

I would have asked
"What the f*** is taking so long, sir? You gotta towed jumper?"

or
"No OPORD needed, sir; just flush and they will go where they are supposed to."

or
"Flush twice sir, it is a long way to hq/chowhall/insert favorite command (ie flush twice, COSCOM is on the other side of post)."

or
"teamwork, hooah!" then piss into the toilet he is at.

My personal favorite: So.....this is where all the d*cks hang out....

[ibstolidude]

So.....this is where all the d*cks hang out....
It's alive!

[Argyll]

Or you could've said
"No wonder your wife is never smiling"

[Roger Rabbit]

rofl

[Uncle Sam]

Or you could've said
"No wonder your wife is never smiling"

You finally said something in less than one line... rofl

[Argyll]

Winding down mate,just getting ready to hit my pit it's 0006 here in Scotland and I'm bolloxed drove 300 miles and worked a 12 hour day :(
same again tommorow :cantbeli:

[Uncle Sam]

Winding down mate,just getting ready to hit my pit it's 0006 here in Scotland and I'm bolloxed drove 300 miles and worked a 12 hour day :(
same again tommorow :cantbeli:

What a man, baby...What - a - man !! Joking aside, that sounds vicious !

Suggestion...Sleep.

[Tane Angle]

rofl

[Haiw]

Ever notice that John Kerry's most vocal supporters on this forum are the same pinkos that have been supporting the saddam fedayeen in Iraq?
Is he Sixgun Sympathetics brother or something?

Anyway, just my two cents; Kerry experienced war...then decided it was the worst thing in the world...and protested it. Instead of some guy that never experienced war, and is yet all too eager too unleash it, this guy has actually BTDT and made an educated opinion. Really, how the hell could you even think of critisising him?!
That's like critisising someone for insisting on using a condom after he just recovered from a STD!

[Cael]

Is it not a gentleman-like thing to say, "I'm sorry sir" and wait for the toilet users to finish? What do you think I should have done then?
see that's the difference..

I would have asked
"What the f*** is taking so long, sir? You gotta towed jumper?"

or
"No OPORD needed, sir; just flush and they will go where they are supposed to."

or
"Flush twice sir, it is a long way to hq/chowhall/insert favorite command (ie flush twice, COSCOM is on the other side of post)."

or
"teamwork, hooah!" then piss into the toilet he is at.

I'd use the last one.

[ittnofjas]

Late one night, George was sitting alone in his oval office, a little bored, playing with his computer, hmm... photoshop..? Idea! Lets **** up for Kerry!

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2004/02/17/popSAK.jpg

But, sadly, someone had the originals...

http://pro.corbis.com/images/DWF15-563704.jpg?size=67&uid={338a3aeb-1175-4b9d-af11-24813cd42c33}

http://pro.corbis.com/images/OF016339.jpg?size=67&uid={d869c683-c8c8-48cd-9bd0-d5bab723c75c}

[11F5S]

http://www.indiancountry.com/?1064420579

[Haiw]

I heard the Bush family was responsible for the hot summer in Europe as well...

[hank]

I doubt seriously that Bush has the computer skills to do it himself. That photo is definitely a fake though. Drudge even reported that yesterday. If Drudge admits it you can bet it is a fake.

hank

[ittnofjas]

That Hanoi Fonda had a nice belly though...

[hank]

Ted Turner is many things, but a fool is not one of them.

hank

[Sixgun Symphony]

[quote=Tommy Gunn]

Anyway, just my two cents; Kerry experienced war...then decided it was the worst thing in the world...and protested it. Instead of some guy that never experienced war, and is yet all too eager too unleash it, this guy has actually BTDT and made an educated opinion. Really, how the hell could you even think of critisising him?!
That's like critisising someone for insisting on using a condom after he just recovered from a STD!

American civilians have experienced war on 11 September 2001.

Now alot of the liberals like to think that appeasement will work, but we all know how that policy worked for Neville Chamberlin.

Now John Kerry went beyond "peace activism", he founded a pro-communist organization (VVAW) that helped communist forces win the war in Vietnam.

We know that John Kerry is a "progressive", just how far Left does he go? I would say that those Viet-Cong flags that flew at his rallies pretty much say it all. This guy is like the "Manchurien Candidate", which is why the Euro-Socialists love him.

[Trident-za]

I think you are foregetting that Vietnam wasn't an "ordinary war". Kerry was/is not anti-war per se. He was most definitely against the Vietnam war, but thats not the same thing. As many Americans on this forum have often said: Iraq is not Vietnam.

I suspect that Kerry's reasons for founding the VVAW (was it really pro-communist in principle? Or is it just deemed that way because it was against the war.... just curious) were less to do with anti-war in general and more to do with anti-the-vietname-war-and-the-tactics-employed.

Subtle difference, perhaps... but extremely important. (I stand to be corrected on this - 2 months ago I'd never heard of Kerry)

[XASA]

Now alot of the liberals like to think that appeasement will work, but we all know how that policy worked for Neville Chamberlin.

Now John Kerry went beyond "peace activism", he founded a pro-communist organization (VVAW) that helped communist forces win the war in Vietnam.

We know that John Kerry is a "progressive", just how far Left does he go? I would say that those Viet-Cong flags that flew at his rallies pretty much say it all. This guy is like the "Manchurien Candidate", which is why the Euro-Socialists love him.

I normally ignore your posts because they are, for the most part, nonsensical; however, when you post something as outrageous as this, it can't be ignored. If "liberals" think appeasement will work, who are they appeasing? Germany? France? Russia?

Neville Chamberlin and Adolph Hitler have no correalation to current events, so why do you compare Kerry to Chamberlin? Did Kerry meet with Saddam and signed a non-aggression pact like Chamberlin and Hitler did?

From what revisionist Internet site did you find out that the VVAW were communists? That is an outright blatant and unsupportable lie. How does flying a Viet-Cong flag at an anti-war demonstration "say it all" when most of those demonstrating were the brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, husbands and wives of those fighting in Vietnam for a lost cause? How is Kerry a "Manchurian Candidate"? And why would "Euro-Socialists" love him for being one?

Please take your b.s. and peddle it somewhere else. If you haven't noticed, your boy Tommy Gunn was banned and his rants were more readable than yours.

BTW, before you decide to call me names, I am a Vietnam Veteran who is sickened by your simplistic view of the world. If you are an example of what I was fighting for than I fought for nothing.

[Trident-za]

Well said XASA, you the man.

BTW - I've adopted your last sentence as a signature - hope you don't mind. It just seems appropriate to me - those of us who have been in "battle" didn't do so to allow seriously right-wing lunatics to sprout their hate

(I'm including myself as one of those who have been in battle, despite having served durng the apartheid era, 'cause I never considered myself to be fighting "for" the governement, but rather against terrorism).

[XASA]

^ Just trying to keep up with you Trident-za :P

[Sixgun Symphony]

VVAW (http://www.oz.net/~vvawai/) are turncoats, like Benedict Arnold and it looks like we have a few of them here.

Today, these peaceniks want for US to appease tin horn dictators and Islamic terrorists. If John Kerry becomes president, then Al Qaida will win this war.

[Trident-za]

OK, admittedly - I'm a loser in terms of US history - but who the hell was Benedict Arnold? I see this statement so often, yet it means nothing to me... please explain?

[Sixgun Symphony]

OK, admittedly - I'm a loser in terms of US history - but who the hell was Benedict Arnold? I see this statement so often, yet it means nothing to me... please explain?

http://israpundit.com/archives/004293.html

Benedict Arnold was started out as a war hero for the cause of US independance. But then he betrayed his country to the British.

[Trident-za]

US independance???????????


You are kidding - you are not seriously referring to someone who died hundreds of years ago as an example?

[Sixgun Symphony]

US independance???????????


You are kidding - you are not seriously referring to someone who died hundreds of years ago as an example?


It is relevent because history gives us an example of how a decorated war hero can go bad.

[Trident-za]

OK, Sixgun.... I'm not a religious person... but here is a historical example for you:

2000 odd years ago, there was apparently this saint-like person called Jesus. Guys like you killed him.

Comments? Does this prove anythign about any current individual?
Should we burn Kerry at the stake because of this event???

[Sixgun Symphony]

OK, Sixgun.... I'm not a religious person... but here is a historical example for you:

2000 odd years ago, there was apparently this saint-like person called Jesus. Guys like you killed him.

Comments? Does this prove anythign about any current individual?
Should we burn Kerry at the stake because of this event???

Guys like me? It was Jesus who got himself crucified.

Kerry was soured on the war and turned to radical elements. Read up on the earlier posts in this thread. General Giap gives credit to John Kerry for helping them to win the war.

[XASA]

Sixgun Symphony, you have been participating in this great forum for a week and have polluted it with your extremist views and name calling. You have alienated several with your vitriolic and hate-filled posts including me.

If that was your goal when you started to post more than two dozen times a day, then you have succeeded. If you think that your harsh rhetoric will affect or influence anyone but the feeble minded, then you are sadly mistaken.

You are a joke who, on occasion, can elicit a snicker but, like many others of your ilk, you take yourself seriously. Perhaps it is because your harsh recriminations aren't taken seriously by others you feel impotent and unable to interact with others, which is why you spend so much time typing on your computer. How does your wife or girlfriend manage to live with such an insufferable bore as you? Do you have a girl? Do you have any friends at all? I mean friends who aren't losers like yourself.

You need to push yourself away from the keyboard and get over your fetish for the military and guns and learn a bit more about the world. If you are a religious person, I would advise you to pray for guidance in your life and the ability to interact with others because, man, you are one wack job waiting to implode.

[Sixgun Symphony]

Extreme? Come again?

XASA,

I came here and saw alot of the extremely leftist euro-trash bashing the US. So I jump right into the fray.

You call me "extreme"? You really ought to look at yourself. You ought to look at these guys waving the Viet-Cong flag. That is extreme.

[cut]

There was fvck all compared to after you started stirring things up.

[hank]

Sexnut is right he is not extreme. It is the people he blindly follows who are extreme. He is just a wannabe. Need to have an original thought in order to qualify for extreme.

hank

[Sixgun Symphony]

There was fvck all compared to after you started stirring things up.

A bunch of liberals and euro-socialists had this forum pretty much to themselves. Things really needed to be stirred up.

[cut]

There was fvck all compared to after you started stirring things up.

A bunch of liberals and euro-socialists had this forum pretty much to themselves. Things really needed to be stirred up.

nah this has always been a stable forum, you and your alter ego tommy, just bring out the worsed in the likes mustamato, he was managable before you came along and turned this into race/nationality forum

[Sixgun Symphony]

mustamanto was tolerable because many here lean in that direction.

BTW, Islam is a religion, not a race.

[cut]

mustamanto was tolerable because many here lean in that direction.

like XASA? Royal? and all those other people who clearly aren't in lefties but hate your guts?

You probably think george bush is liberal at the rate your going.



BTW, Islam is a religion, not a race.

Islam is not your only phobia

[hank]

Good thing you read something somebody else wrote so you could come here and stir things up, huh sexgimp? I mean, people who think for themselves need to get Pat's take on it, especially since most of us don't blindly folow him, right? Thanks

hank

[Haiw]

A bunch of liberals and euro-socialists had this forum pretty much to themselves. Things really needed to be stirred up.
Glad to see you have observed our forum for so long... :roll:
If you had really observed you would have known a lot of things and might have had it easier to NOT make yourself the most hated person on the forum... However, you chose another path.


Today, these peaceniks want for US to appease tin horn dictators and Islamic terrorists. If John Kerry becomes president, then Al Qaida will win this war.
First of all, it seems like you clearly don't see the difference between being against a war (for quite legit reasons) and 'appeasement'.

Second... if the war against Al-Qaeda is lost by the US it's most propably due to Dubya making more enemies than friends in his 4 years as president.

[Sixgun Symphony]

Thanks for proving my point,

Mostly liberals and euro-socialists having a love fest here.

[Sixgun Symphony]

[quote=Sixgun Symphony]
You probably think george bush is liberal at the rate your going.


Bush is a neo-conservative. I think we went over that earlier.

[cut]

Thanks for proving my point,

Mostly liberals and euro-socialists having a love fest here.

so why are you trying to join in?

[Truthsayer]

Bartender, check please?

[Haiw]

Thanks for your well educated and constructive reply!

Give me a day or two to think of a good answer... :roll:

[Sixgun Symphony]

McCain: Hanoi Hilton Guards Taunted POWs With Kerry's Testimony

These days, former Vietnam War POW Sen. John McCain has nothing but praise for his fellow Vietnam veteran Sen. John Kerry, the Democrats' current presidential front-runner.

But after he was released from the Hanoi Hilton in 1973, McCain publicly complained that testimony by Kerry and others before J. William Fulbright's Senate Foreign Relations Committee was "the most effective propaganda [my North Vietnamese captors] had to use against us."

"They used Senator Fulbright a great deal," McCain wrote in the May 14, 1973, issue of U.S. News & World Report. While he was languishing in a North Vietnamese prison cell, Kerry was telling the Fulbright committee that U.S. soldiers were committing war crimes in Vietnam as a matter of course.

Sen. Ted Kennedy, a key Kerry presidential backer, was "quoted again and again" by jailers at the Hanoi Hilton, McCain said.

"Clark Clifford was another [North Vietnamese] favorite," the ex-POW told U.S. News, "right after he had been Secretary of Defense under President Johnson."

"When Ramsey Clark came over [my jailers] thought that was a great coup for their cause," McCain recalled. Months earlier, Sen. Kerry had appeared with Clark at the April 1971 Washington, D.C., anti-war protest that showcased his testimony before the Fulbright Committee.

"All through this period," wrote McCain, his captors were "bombarding us with anti-war quotes from people in high places back in Washington. This was the most effective propaganda they had to use against us."

McCain biographer Paul Alexander chronicled the Arizona Republican's anger toward Kerry during their early careers in the Senate together.

"For many years McCain held Kerry's actions against him because, while McCain was a POW in the Hanoi Hilton, Kerry was organizing veterans back home in the U.S. to protest the war."

In his 2002 book, "Man of the People: The Life of John McCain," Alexander says that the two Vietnam vets finally reconciled in the early 1990s after having "a long - and at times emotional - conversation about Vietnam" during a mutual trip to Kuwait.

Later, Kerry sought to minimize the rift, telling Alexander: "Our differences occurred when we were kids, or at least close to being kids. It was a long time ago, and we both came back and realized that there were a lot of difficulties in the prosecution of that war."

NewsMax gratefully acknowledges the help of U.S. Veteran Dispatch editor Ted Sampley for supplying McCain's revealing 1973 account in U.S. News.


NewsMax (https://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/2/17/124410.shtml)

[ArmedPacifist]

Bartender, check please?

Right on :)