Gen. Giap: Kerry's Group Helped Hanoi Defeat U.S.

[Tommy Gunn]

*NewsMax.com* (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/2/10/222651.shtml)

The North Vietnamese general in charge of the military campaign that finally drove the U.S. out of South Vietnam in 1975 credited a group led by Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry with helping him achieve victory.

In his 1985 memoir about the war, Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap wrote that if it weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S. - according to Fox News Channel war historian Oliver North.

That's why, he predicted on Tuesday, the Vietnam War issue "is going to blow up in Kerry's face."

"People are going to remember Gen. Giap saying if it weren't for these guys [Kerry's group], we would have lost," North told radio host Sean Hannity.

"The Vietnam Veterans Against the War encouraged people to desert, encouraged people to mutiny - some used what they wrote to justify fragging officers," noted the former Marine lieutenant colonel, who earned two purple hearts in Vietnam.

"John Kerry has blood of American soldiers on his hands," North said.

[Sergei]

Is it the same Oliver North of Iran-Contras affair? I wouldn't trust a single word of that lying turd.

[SeanAshi]

Will were not defeated in Vietnam, we just didn't achieve our objectives

[martinexsquaddie]

oliver north Fox news historian rofl rofl rofl rofl

[Maj C]

Although Ollie may have screwed up later - he did serve honorably in combat in Vietnam...He was a classmate of James Webb's IIRC.

[OldRecon]

*NewsMax.com* (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/2/10/222651.shtml)

The North Vietnamese general in charge of the military campaign that finally drove the U.S. out of South Vietnam in 1975 credited a group led by Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry with helping him achieve victory.

In his 1985 memoir about the war, Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap wrote that if it weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S. - according to Fox News Channel war historian Oliver North.

That's why, he predicted on Tuesday, the Vietnam War issue "is going to blow up in Kerry's face."

"People are going to remember Gen. Giap saying if it weren't for these guys [Kerry's group], we would have lost," North told radio host Sean Hannity.

"The Vietnam Veterans Against the War encouraged people to desert, encouraged people to mutiny - some used what they wrote to justify fragging officers," noted the former Marine lieutenant colonel, who earned two purple hearts in Vietnam.

"John Kerry has blood of American soldiers on his hands," North said.

Think in fact Giap is exaggerating things a bit with that statement.
Based on their experience with the Chinese during the Korean war I highly doubt if the US armed forces would ever have contemplated invading the north for fear of provoking the Chinese as during the Korean war (only rather late in the war it became evident that the relationship between the Chinese and the North Vietnamese was not the best, which perhaps is why the North Vietnamese were so concerned about the US mining of Haipong).
In fact the US government didn't even dare to extend the McNamara line into Laos and Cambodia to cut off the Ho Chi Minh trails (which would have been their only hope for success against the North).
When therefore the war turned into a long giant Verdun type attritional battle, with the men from the North able to use the Ho Chi Minh trail network for resupply despite the activities of USAF, Navy and MACV/SOG, the US leadership and its people lacked stomach for the casualties it entailed.
So will and lack of necessary ruthlessness indeed played a role in the US pullout from Nam.

[Rantanplan]

Dear Mr. Bush,

could you please stop to spam this nice place with your silly propaganda.

Thanks


P.S. please don't use this nickname anymore. We all know its you Dubya!!!

http://images.google.de/images?q=tbn:3cgc1OvJEuAJ:www.angelfire.com/hi5/pearly/bush/bush_scared.jpg

[Sixgun Symphony]

It seems to me that Kerry wanted to fight for the communists in Vietnam.

[cut]

It seems to me that Kerry wanted to fight for the communists in Vietnam.

:roll:

[usa320]

what disgusts me is he fought in their, then went home only to turn his back on the men he fought along side.

[Argyll]

what disgusts me is he fought in their, then went home only to turn his back on the men he fought along side.


at least he did go,unlike others!

Maybe one day when you have seen the horrors of war up close and personal,then you can comment ,but you have never served and never been under fire so you're in no position to comment are you?

That's disgusting

[Ichhabe]

what disgusts me is he fought in their, then went home only to turn his back on the men he fought along side.


at least he did go,unlike others!

Maybe one day when you have seen the horrors of war up close and personal,then you can comment ,but you have never served and never been under fire so you're in no position to comment are you?

That's disgusting

Argyll, I'm gonna tatoo your nick on my arm. :hug:

[Guttorm]

what disgusts me is he fought in their, then went home only to turn his back on the men he fought along side.


at least he did go,unlike others!

Maybe one day when you have seen the horrors of war up close and personal,then you can comment ,but you have never served and never been under fire so you're in no position to comment are you?

That's disgusting

Argyll, I'm gonna tatoo your nick on my arm. :hug:

So, it's Ichabe, me... Who else wants to join the fanclub?

[cut]

I would put yours on my arm, but it looks too much like Gutworm

[Seoulstriker]

Kerry also threw his medals in disgust at his own service. he called his fellow veterans 'baby-eaters'...he helped jane fonda with anti-war rallies...


hmmm... :roll:

[TehSuig]

He also left Vietnam early due to a loophole in the armed services policy.

His 3 purple hearts allowed him to leave before his tour was up, so he took it. But no one seems to realize that he recieved all 3 purple hearts for wounds so minor he didn't even have to leave his duty.

Would Bush have ducked out early if he got sent overseas? We'll never know. But we DO know that Kerry did.

[Argyll]

Kerry also threw his medals in disgust at his own service. he called his fellow veterans 'baby-eaters'...he helped jane fonda with anti-war rallies...


hmmm... :roll:

His medals are on display at his office!
Its been mentioned here that he threw some other medals...............not his own................and again Seoul I think if you'd seen what he had seen then perhaps you'd be in a better position to judge him?

Judge ye not and all that ****!!?

He voiced his anger at a Government who left POW's to Rot in their Captivity,and never ever went for them ask Tane how he feels about it?

[George W. Bush]

You're all sounding like Kerry is going to beat Bush.

[Argyll]

You're all sounding like Kerry is going to beat Bush.


I couldn't care less who gets in,but to listen to people badmouth a genuine Patriot who fought for his country,has the medals to show it and has the nightmares along with it ,gets my respect irrespective of his views during a troubled period in History,a time where most of the members here were not even born,who are clueless about that whole era,and yet they come here acting like they been to Vietnam,cuase the saw Platoon several times......how can an 80's kid possibly understand what went on during the Vietnam war?,How could they possibly know what the politics were and the motives and personal tragedies that effected those who DID GO TO WAR?

I'd rather have someone like Kerry in the UK than Tony "CND" Blair,and his gang of private skool tossers!

[fred_engles]

You're all sounding like Kerry is going to beat Bush.He damn well better.

[Tommy Gunn]

[
I couldn't care less who gets in,but to listen to people badmouth a genuine Patriot who fought for his country,has the medals to show it and has the nightmares along with it ,gets my respect irrespective of his views during a troubled period in History,a time where most of the members here were not even born,who are clueless about that whole era,and yet they come here acting like they been to Vietnam,cuase the saw Platoon several times......how can an 80's kid possibly understand what went on during the Vietnam war?,How could they possibly know what the politics were and the motives and personal tragedies that effected those who DID GO TO WAR?

I'd rather have someone like Kerry in the UK than Tony "CND" Blair,and his gang of private skool tossers!



Kerry turned, just like another American war hero named Benedict Arnold.

Private school? Kerry, like Bush, was born to wealth and privilege.

[aFgHaNibOi]

Tommy Guns are the best, old, but gold. No wonder why the mafia used them. :roll:

[Trident-za]

I don't know the full details of what Kerry did or did not do after he left Vietnam. I'm curious as to why some of you label him a "traitor". Is this because he dared to disagree with the government over the war, or did he do something a little more active than go to a venue that had Jane Fonda?

Some detail, please, for those of us who prefer to deal with facts rather than rhetoric. (oh, and I'd like something a little more concrete than something Giap apparently said, according to North)

From what I know of the Vietnam war - there were a fair number of incidents with "questionable morality". I'm not saying the war was wrong, or that all the US troops who fought there got involved in dubious things. But, I know that if I had been there, and see some random slaughtering of civilians, or whatever, I'd feel quite strongly about it. I'd certainly stand up for what I thought was right, and speak out against "incorrect behaviour". Isn't that what being a christian (not that I am) and a civilized person is all about?

If he actually did do something truly traitorous, thats a different thing... disagreeing with your government, or even a war, doesn't make you a traitor though (unless you lived in Nazi Germany, the old South Africa etc)

Oh, and Argyll - I agree 100% with what you've said so far.

[Tommy Gunn]

I don't know the full details of what Kerry did or did not do after he left Vietnam. I'm curious as to why some of you label him a "traitor".

Click on this URL http://www.usvetdsp.com/jf_kerry.htm



http://www.usvetdsp.com/vc_flg_cap.jpg

VVAW supported demonstration, Washington Spring Offensive, April - May 1971

http://www.usvetdsp.com/vc_flag_protesta.jpg

VVAW supported demonstration during the Washington Spring Offensive, April - May 1971. Notice the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong flags.

[fitter]

Giap, Vo Nguyen (1912- ), Vietnamese general and minister of defence (1945-1980), the architect of the Communist military victory in Vietnam. Born in the province of Quangbinh, he studied law at the University of Hanoi, receiving a doctorate in 1937. During the 1930s he joined the Indo-Chinese Communist party, and when it was outlawed in 1939, fled to China, where he became a military aide to Ho Chi Minh. He returned with a Vietnamese army in 1945 and liberated Hanoi from the Japanese. A master of guerrilla war tactics, he later planned and directed the military operations against the French that culminated in their defeat at the Battle of Dien Bien Phu in 1954. During the 1960s Giap took charge of guerrilla operations against South Vietnam and the United States and planned the Tet offensive of 1968, which dealt a severe psychological blow to the American forces. He retired from politics in 1982.

http://www.ttvnol.com/uploaded/lexcom/u1563799.jpg

[Mark Sman]

Kiss

The earth bore you here.
To bring beauty.
The earth bore me here
To love you deeply.

In love people kiss.
The sweetness they would not miss.
My heart is passionate for you
Still I must go to battle.

My love, it is possible
That I may die in combat
The lips torn there by bullets
Might never be kissed [again] by yours.

Even if I die, my love,
I love you, though I am unable
To kiss you with the lips
Of a slave.

- D'ai T'o'ng Vo Nguyen Giap


Sorry folks, couldn't resist.
Please address all flames to yourself.

[mocking_loudly_died]

People give too much of a sh*t about the most mundane things.

"Oh lets connect every Democrat to some ultra left commie pinko tree hugging china bum rooting conspiracy".

If Jesus was a Democrat you guys would come up with a pic of him and Jane Fonda making sweet love - time to get a life.

Christ have a beer and shut up.

[Trident-za]

:lol:

[Tane Angle]

I know no one is going to listen to this, but it really seems that Kerry wasn't pro-communist or anti-troops so much as anti-having to bury one more man in a war that no one could really justify. Have a good one, just some thoughts...

[Trident-za]

Tane, that was the impression I got from reading the article linked to above by Tommy Gun. Interesting read, not proof of treason or pro-communist sentiments.

If anything, I think the guy was trying his dammdest to save american lives (and minds).

[XASA]

There is a John Kerry quote in today's "Doonesbury" (of all places) when he addessed a Senate committee thirty years ago:

"How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"

Funny how timely that reads in todays world.

[Argyll]

Would guys like Tommy Gun and his cohorts do what he did in a war that nobody understood,and saw many friends die for no apparent reasons?



I doubt it!