What is so bad about this?

[Ea$y-8]

November 26, 2005
Release Number: 05-11-116


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



COALITION RELEASES EXECUTIVE SUMMARY OF INVESTIGATION INTO BURNING OF TALIBAN BODIES

KABUL, Afghanistan – Coalition officials have released an executive summary today of the investigation into U.S. Soldiers burning the bodies of two dead Taliban fighters.

The Combined Joint Task Force-76 Commanding General, Army Maj. Gen. Jason Kamiya announced the results and actions taken as a result of the investigation into the events occurring Oct. 1 near Gumbad during a press conference held today at Kandahar Airfield.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2005/11/mil-051126-centcom01.htm

I am thinking: what is wrong with burning bodies of your dead enemies? This whole PC has gone WAY to far and it needs to stop. I mean the Taliban are already dead you can't hurt them.

[Knutsen]

Respect for your enemy, who is a human being.
Everyone wants to recover the corpses of their dead to give them a proper burial.

[EffJi]

It's because the taliban are muslims. And being muslim they consider themselves a lot more important than other people and think more highly of a muslim than a infidel.
Therefore they expect the good guys (the coalition) to treat POWs and the bodies of KIAs better than they treat POWs and bodies of KIAs themselves.
So whenever the good guys (the coalition) does not do this - for example when they burn the bodies of the dead to prevent them (the bodies) from spreading disease - they (the taliban) gets upset. This, of course, being right after they suicide bomb a school full of kids to peices.

Makes sense?
It's not supposed to.

[Ea$y-8]

It's because the taliban are muslims. And being muslim they consider themselves a lot more important than other people and think more highly of a muslim than a infidel.
Therefore they expect the good guys (the coalition) to treat POWs and the bodies of KIAs better than they treat POWs and bodies of KIAs themselves.
So whenever the good guys (the coalition) does not do this - for example when they burn the bodies of the dead to prevent them (the bodies) from spreading disease - they (the taliban) gets upset. This, of course, being right after they suicide bomb a school full of kids to peices.

Makes sense?
It's not supposed to.

This reminds me of the thread about the British soldiers and the whole "if they shoot a insurgent they will end up in court" thing. Cases like this are no longer a surpise to me, hell this is the kind of thing I expect. I wish the days of the soldiers and victory being more importent than PC. The whole military is truely now operating under LE (Law Enforcement) rules I think they people in charge need to understand this.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Remember.

The War on Terror (A name of which has only given legitimacy to terrorism IMO) is much a war has winning the hearts and minds of the Islamic world as it is a war of soldiers vs soldiers.

Now don't you think, Muslims get mighty pissed off if the dead were not given a proper burial that follows there customs?

What would win over Muslims more? Burning their bodies in a disrespectful manner or providing a Islamic burial service?

[toad]

Theres lots wrong with it... it is how war crimes are covered up for one. The world has certain civilized standards for how to handle those who have fallen, and that takes into account the differing views of many nations.

Nobody wants to see the dead dragged through streets, or have heads on pikes.

All nations should strive to a high standard in the treatment of those who have fallen. It is about respect.

To a large measure I think that happens.

[California Joe]

Because they aren't f*cking Vikings. And they weren't on a boat when they were burned. And if you can't see why "desecrating" the bodies of the dead is anathema to certain cultures maybe you ought to read Blackhawk Down 36 more frigging times until you make the connection.

[walford]

There is no winning hearts and minds of people who consider themselves the Almighty's Chosen. They send their own to obliterate the bodies of men, women and children on a regular basis so that they can have *** with 72 virgins in the afterlife. Now that's what I call piety.

The fact is, they operate under a double-standard and we're supposed to cater to it.. F*ck them. Bury their sorry asses with the leftovers from a pork bar-b-que.

[California Joe]

We hold to a higher standard because we're better than that. I know you're venting but it does us no good to set fire to their dead. Not strategically, morally or public relations wise.

[EvanL]

There is no winning hearts and minds of people who consider themselves the Almighty's Chosen. They send their own to obliterate the bodies of men, women and children on a regular basis so that they can have *** with 72 virgins in the afterlife. Now that's what I call piety.

The fact is, they operate under a double-standard and we're supposed to cater to it.. F*ck them. Bury their sorry asses with the leftovers from a pork bar-b-que.

And thats why your in your 40s and only now going to school. Your a poor uneducated old sod with no dignity or sense of purpose.

[walford]

And thats why your in your 40s and only now going to school. Your a poor uneducated old sod with no dignity or sense of purpose.1. I have my degree [with honors] some time ago and have been accepted to graduate school.
2. Prior to returning to formal education, I have been studying/writing/been published about these issues long before the mailman took a fancy to your mom's butt.
3. You have failed to refute -- or indeed even address -- my points.
4. You're going to have to get back on the short bus and learn punctuation.

[EvanL]

1. I have my degree [with honors] some time ago and have been accepted to graduate school.
2. Prior to returning to formal education, I have been studying/writing/been published about these issues long before the mailman took a fancy to your mom's butt.
3. You have failed to refute -- or indeed even address -- my points.
4. You're going to have to get back on the short bus and learn punctuation.

If there were points made, i maybe then would have been able to refute them. But since there weren't any made, just blind biggotry and hatred, I decided instead to show my distaste for your attitude.
and about my punctuation i could care less what you may think about it as i dont care if im not writing a report or an essay for school.
(last sentence was gramatically and punctually raped in jest)

[walford]

If there were points made, i maybe then would have been able to refute them. But since there weren't any made, just blind biggotry and hatred, I decided instead to show my distaste for your attitude.
and about my punctuation i could care less what you may think about it as i dont care if im not writing a report or an essay for school.
(last sentence was gramatically and punctually raped in jest)Not finding points and resorting to personal attacks while expressing to distaste for attitudes is about the best we can expect from you then. I believe that you might be more comfortable trolling the Off-Topic section amongst your peers.

[EvanL]

OKay, you wear the oprah mask, and i'll wear the tony robbins mask. I know its kinky but thats how I like it.

[usm2b]

Point taken guys, I'll sound the order that for now on we are to bury all killed taliban and Al-queda opperatives in a marble coffin draped with an Osama Bin Laden flag...or perhaps a burning American flag, I haven't decided yet...

[Omaha]

Probably both to cover all bases.

[walford]

We hold to a higher standard because we're better than that. I know you're venting but it does us no good to set fire to their dead. Not strategically, morally or public relations wise.Seriously I would suggest this response from our people:

We must remind everyone that these people have no qualms about killing/raping innocents and soldiers alike and then desecrating corpses afterward in notoriusly hideous ways. The enemy is in no position to complain if we hygenically dispose of the bodies of people who died as a part of a large-scale effort to prevent the local people from peaceably choosing their leadership, rebuilding their country and having foreign troops leave sooner rather than later.

[Blarney]

November 26, 2005
Release Number: 05-11-116


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE




I am thinking: what is wrong with burning bodies of your dead enemies? This whole PC has gone WAY to far and it needs to stop. I mean the Taliban are already dead you can't hurt them.

muslims consider it a crime to burn bodies, they bury.

[walford]

muslims consider it a crime to burn bodies, they bury.But they have no problem burning the Infidel (http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050106/news_1n6sue.html), do they?

[AlexNenadic]

It's because the taliban are muslims. And being muslim they consider themselves a lot more important than other people and think more highly of a muslim than a infidel.
Therefore they expect the good guys (the coalition) to treat POWs and the bodies of KIAs better than they treat POWs and bodies of KIAs themselves.
So whenever the good guys (the coalition) does not do this - for example when they burn the bodies of the dead to prevent them (the bodies) from spreading disease - they (the taliban) gets upset. This, of course, being right after they suicide bomb a school full of kids to peices.

Makes sense?
It's not supposed to.

Damn, awesome post dude.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I can definitely see where Walford is coming from.

The Taliban really didn't seem to mind BBQing a bunch of their own, along with 3000 or so of ours on 9/11. Oh yeah-and minor detail - they were alive as it happened. Odd that they'd consider that culturally acceptable, but disposal of rotting remains in 90+ heat is unacceptable.

From the executive summary report on the incident:







The engagement left one U.S. Soldier,
one Afghan National Army soldier, two Taliban fighters dead, and several wounded in
action. Twenty-four hours after the combat action, local nationals from Gumbad village
had yet to retrieve the enemy combatant remains.
The following environmental and operational conditions existed:

· The temperature in that area exceeded 90 degrees with no shade nearby.

· The rocky terrain was such that it prevented the Soldiers from burying the
remains.

· The hilltop where the enemy combatant remains were located afforded the best
tactical advantage for follow on combat operations.

· The unit believed that it would remain at this position for another 48 hours.

· Enemy forces were still suspected to be in the area, but were at that time not
located.

Now - that shows that the bodies were burned because they were turning into lumpy soup in the sun, nobody was coming to get them, and due to the US forces being stuck on a rock bluff, no grave could be dug. It may not be the smartest thing to do, considering local traditions and all, but there are times when practical considerations must win out. By that time, you'd have carrion eaters picking at them, flies laying eggs on them - basically mother nature in all her glory reclaiming the goods for future use. I find it hard to believe that Muslims would prefer that their dead are left to rot rather than be burned. Surely we'd face just as harsh a criticism for leaving them to be eaten.

One small detail though, that derails the official story somewhat. The report states that one US soldier and one Afghan National Army soldier were also killed - but does not indicate that they were burned as well. Which would lead one to conclude that they must have been otherwise taken care of - which then begs the question of why the two Taliban guys couldn't be taken care of as well. A purposeful omission? If not, then maybe there's more to it. And if there is - yeah, it may have been just a really dumb ass thing to do.

[joe mama]

Based on the information about the situation, this is HARDLY a case of the enemy bodies being posed like monkeys and dressed in lingerie before being burned, this was a pratical sanitation choice. The US and Afghan ally bodies were probably body bagged and air lifted out or bagged for transport when possible. Why not bag them all? Why spend the resources on the enemy? Not spending the resources on them and disposing of the bodies in a reasonable manner (burnings better than letting them rot, isn't it?) is nowhere near desecrating them.

[Major Maxillary]

Once the spirit has left, the body is worthless. Burning saves time and energy. They'll never respect us anyway. besides, nobody gives a **** about the taliban.

Allah can just make them a new body.

[Mr.K]

again when you're supposed to be the "good guys" "world police" etc etc, you shouldn't be burning bodies. Or accept that you have no special role on this planet and stay away from invading countries.

[Lazarou]

There was a documentary on TV a few days ago about the war in Afganistan, and it included some footage about the burning of enemy bodies. The reporters said that according to the soldiers it was purely psychological warfare - like the anti-Taliban radio/loudspeaker messages they sent in the same footage, and was done because the villagers refused to co-operate with them and name those who attacked the Americans.
According to the Quran the dead have to be buried within 24 hours and burning is about the worst thing you can do to dishonour the dead - that's why the bodies of the PMCs were burned in Fallujah. The Taliban bodies were burned after 24+ hours of their death, and they were positioned so that their heads pointed towards Mecca and the smoke could bee seen in nearby villages - atleast according to the documentary.

[Johnny_H02]

If i remember correctly when this story first came out, werent the said US Soldiers on a loud speaker calling them dogs who hide in caves and this is what awaits them? and then a assload of people on this forum found it funny?

And one has to remember its not MUSLIMS beheading and maiming soldiers and innocents alike anymore then you can say Christians are bombing innocents from the skys.

You realise that over there it seems to be the jihadis saying that the Yanks and Coalition are Crusaders? See a pattern here we blame thier faith they blame ours and voila ignorance begetts ignorance.

If it was strictly sanitary, it shouldnt of been covered by the media or done in a manner to show other people what they are in for.

[Kilgor]

· The temperature in that area exceeded 90 degrees with no shade nearby.

· The rocky terrain was such that it prevented the Soldiers from burying the
remains.

Why should soldiers be forced to dig in rock hard soil in the scorching heat just to bury some piece of **** towel head that probably was trying to kill them hours before ? Its this sort of soft attitude that ties one arm behind the backs of western armies.

Next time, leave em for the buzzards. We wouldnt want to offend anyone would we ?

[Kilgor]

again when you're supposed to be the "good guys" "world police" etc etc, you shouldn't be burning bodies. Or accept that you have no special role on this planet and stay away from invading countries.

Kinda reminds me of the soviet invasion of afganistan...

[Johnny_H02]

· The temperature in that area exceeded 90 degrees with no shade nearby.

· The rocky terrain was such that it prevented the Soldiers from burying the
remains.

Why should soldiers be forced to dig in rock hard soil in the scorching heat just to bury some piece of **** towel head that probably was trying to kill them hours before ? Its this sort of soft attitude that ties one arm behind the backs of western armies.

Next time, leave em for the buzzards. We wouldnt want to offend anyone would we ?


Why would it?
No one says they have to bury them, but burning them and making a video tape... go's a little farther then standard sanitary practice.
I wasnt incinuating that American troops should have to break a sweat in the heat digging graves in hard rock. Simply saying that burning the bodies and video taping it as a warning to others really kinda hurts thier own goals.

This isnt Iraq, History has shown to win Afghanistan you have to win the people, if you dont? if those people are indifferant or turn... then your days in Afghanistan are numbered.

[Weasel]

· The temperature in that area exceeded 90 degrees with no shade nearby.

· The rocky terrain was such that it prevented the Soldiers from burying the
remains.

Why should soldiers be forced to dig in rock hard soil in the scorching heat just to bury some piece of **** towel head that probably was trying to kill them hours before ? Its this sort of soft attitude that ties one arm behind the backs of western armies.

Next time, leave em for the buzzards. We wouldnt want to offend anyone would we ?
Cool. No geneva convention, no humanity, no rules. Total warfare.
Then beheadings are Ok, too.

[Kilgor]

Cool. No geneva convention, no humanity, no rules. Total warfare.
Then beheadings are Ok, too.

Islamic extremists never ever have followed the convention anyway. So we dont bury their bodies correctly to their perverted interpretation of Islam, so they are allowed to cut of heads, blow up innocent civilians and so on in return ?

What a truely warped sense of humanity you must have.

[Weasel]

What a truely warped sense of humanity you must have.
That´s exactly the same I think about you. :hug:

[Lazarou]

· The temperature in that area exceeded 90 degrees with no shade nearby.

· The rocky terrain was such that it prevented the Soldiers from burying the
remains.

Why should soldiers be forced to dig in rock hard soil in the scorching heat just to bury some piece of **** towel head that probably was trying to kill them hours before ? Its this sort of soft attitude that ties one arm behind the backs of western armies.

So that makes insulting Islam ok?

During WW2 my country earned the respect of the world by taking care of both our own and the enemy's casualties in -40 -50 centigrade temperatures and when the ground was frozen and as hard as concrete. Why can't Americans forces do the same? Respect doesn't come free, you earn it.

And that "piece of **** towel head" attitude is the very reason why they treat Americans and other westerners as crusaders.

[Argyll]

How many time do you lot have to be told that beheadings amongst Muslims isn't a new concept?..........doing it on video is,but beheading has been around for centuries,infact it goes all the way back to the Crusades,hell even the English used to behead prisoners,the French used the Guillotine,in Saudi' it's done publically......get over yourselves thinking this is something new,it isn't!!...............Try doing some frikkin history research before condemning acts that are thousands of years old.....is beheading as brutal as scalping alive?.....the end result is the same......death!!

[achilles]

Islamic extremists never ever have followed the convention anyway. So we dont bury their bodies correctly to their perverted interpretation of Islam, so they are allowed to cut of heads, blow up innocent civilians and so on in return ?


Have you ever checked out the civilian deaths your country is responsible for, in ALL the wars it started?

But i guess 'napalming' villagers in Cambodia is not as bad as radical Islamists chopping off someone's head, now is it? ;)

[Weasel]

How many time do you lot have to be told that beheadings amongst Muslims isn't a new concept?..........doing it on video is,but beheading has been around for centuries,infact it goes all the way back to the Crusades,hell even the English used to behead prisoners,the French used the Guillotine,in Saudi' it's done publically......get over yourselves thinking this is something new,it isn't!!...............Try doing some frikkin history research before condemning acts that are thousands of years old.....is beheading as brutal as scalping alive?.....the end result is the same......death!!
Are you talking to me? If yes, I know that beheadings aren´t a new thing. My point was that you can´t expect a "regular" behaviour from your enemy if you are also not willing to stick to simple rules of humanity. Just try to have morality on your side, otherwise you aren´t better than your enemy.

[Argyll]

I'm talking to everyone in general........Islamic Fundamentalism didn't start on 9/11.......which some people seem to think,also some of those here point to the Taliban as carrying out that attack as well.........wrong it was AQ,the Taliban gave them safe haven.......if you're going to spout out shyte do some research on the subject matter,that way you'll not come across as another clueless fcuking idiot!!

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I'm talking to everyone in general........Islamic Fundamentalism didn't start on 9/11.......which some people seem to think,also some of those here point to the Taliban as carrying out that attack as well.........wrong it was AQ,the Taliban gave them safe haven.......if you're going to spout out shyte do some research on the subject matter,that way you'll not come across as another clueless fcuking idiot!!


Well, er, it may have been a bit cozier than that...

From wikipedia -



In 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996), Saudi dissident (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissident) Osama bin Laden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden) moved to Afghanistan upon the invitation of the Northern Alliance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Alliance) leader Abdur Rabb ur Rasool Sayyaf. When the Taliban came to power, bin Laden was able to forge an alliance between the Taliban and his Al-Qaeda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda) organization. It is understood that al-Qaeda-trained fighters known as the 055 Brigade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/055_Brigade) were integrated with the Taliban army between 1997 and 2001. The generally accepted view in the West is that the Taliban and bin Laden had very close connections.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban


IMHO the Taliban was/is nothing more than a shell organization - arranged so as to provide AQ's operations plausible deny-ability. The Taliban repeatedly called AQ their "guests" - when in reality it was AQ paying the bills and calling the shots. When it was demanded that they kick AQ out...well they could hardly kick themselves out of the country..and the rest is history.

I can agree that it may not have been the smartest move - and it is a questionable strategy at best. To me, if it works to our benefit, do it...if it does not, don't. There are bigger fish to fry.

[Major Maxillary]

Islamic extremists never ever have followed the convention anyway. So we dont bury their bodies correctly to their perverted interpretation of Islam, so they are allowed to cut of heads, blow up innocent civilians and so on in return ?

What a truely warped sense of humanity you must have.

We've already established that if you don't adhere to the rules you don't have any right to claim the protection of them.

The people we're fighting never had any regard for the Geneva convention, and so they're in no position to reap the benefits of it.

They hide behind women and children, they brutally kill prisoners, they brutally murder non combatants, and they are never seen wearing any formal uniforms. therefore the convention does. not. apply. to. them.