Rights abuses in Iraq as bad as Saddams Regime claim Allawi

[Argyll]

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/13268122.htm

Posted on Sun, Nov. 27, 2005

Allawi says rights abuses abound in Iraq

Associated Press


LONDON - Human rights abuses in Iraq are as bad now as they were under Saddam Hussein and could become even worse, the country's former interim prime minister said in an interview published Sunday.

"People are doing the same as Saddam's time and worse," Ayad Allawi told The Observer newspaper. "It is an appropriate comparison."

Allawi accused fellow Shiites in the government of being responsible for death squads and secret torture centers and said the brutality of elements in the new security forces rivals that of Saddam's secret police.

Although Allawi is a Shiite, he is secular in his politics and is running separately from the Shiite religious parties in the Dec. 15 election. His comments appear to be an attempt to appeal to Sunni voters, who claim their community has been unfairly targeted by the Shiite-led security forces.

"People are remembering the days of Saddam. These were the precise reasons that we fought Saddam and now we are seeing the same thing," the newspaper quoted him as saying.

Iraqi officials have played down reports of rights abuses, insisting they are lies created by their enemies

Same report.........different network

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1349136

and again from the good old Beeb!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4475030.stm

[Roaming East]

rather disheartening

[Argyll]

Retribution can destroy democracies!!

[achilles]

It seems that the claim that the US can export democracy, freedom, stability and nobble values through the use of superior firepower, becomes a tragic joke as days go by. I am wondering what will be left behind if/when they pull out.

[Umm-Qasr]

The difference is that the government is trying to restore law and order in Iraq; during the time of Saddam it were ways to intimidate the people of Iraq. And this Allawi fella should stfu: he was responsible for bringing back the baathis to their old positions which also contributed to the shiity situation in Iraq ...

[American Patriot]

Allawi is running for PM. He's just saying this so people will vote for him.

[Teaser]

Allawi is running for PM. He's just saying this so people will vote for him.

Yup, right there with u. But then again he said some bad things about shiites and that might treaten his support from shiites themselves.

[szr]

In America, when politicians say things like this, we have a saying that "it's politics as usual." American Patriot is right on the money. This is a political act by a political actor in Iraq's developing political scene. Last time I checked, political opposition was one of the cornerstones of democracy. The difference between this Iraq and Saddam's Iraq isn't that this government will do right everywhere Saddam did wrong, but that political pressure can now force change where, before, it couldn't. Hardly something to be disheartened by.

[Argyll]

Allawi is running for PM. He's just saying this so people will vote for him.

Youu mean like Blair said the Iraqi's had WMD battle ready in theatre?

Or Bush saying the same thing!!?

Um Qusr,excuse me for being ignorant,but what former Ba'athists are back in their original positions?

Have any of you thought for a minute that his claims may well be accurate!!?

[szr]

Edit: orignal post that was here didn't really add anything so it's gone.

[oregongrunt]

"Allawi says rights abuses abound in Iraq"

Pot calls kettle black.

[deccantrap]

Last time I checked, political opposition was one of the cornerstones of democracy.
I put my money on that....at least people have the freedom to raise their voices against injustices in Iraq, which they didnt earlier.

That said, the fact remains that the cornerstone of our invasion-occupation of Iraq remains our own self-interests and nothing else. We didnt invade Iraq to stop Saddam torturing his people, so we can still take consolation from the fact that fewer people are being tormented now, and that there is a vocal opposition.

[C3F]

Retribution can destroy democracies!!


Yep! One of the biggest challenges the Iraqi Government will face is the MOI (Ministry of Interior). These guys are doing some BAD things. In addition, OMS and Badr/Wolf/SCIRI (All one in the same essentially - but not OMS) are all taking things out on the Sunnis.

It could, will, can get ugly!

[pathfinder82]

Allawi is running for PM. He's just saying this so people will vote for him.

That might be the case but Im not running for office and I kinda agree. I mean I have tons of emails, some contain the words "you'll never believe what I saw today".

[Umm-Qasr]

Youu mean like Blair said the Iraqi's had WMD battle ready in theatre?

Or Bush saying the same thing!!?

Um Qusr,excuse me for being ignorant,but what former Ba'athists are back in their original positions?

Have any of you thought for a minute that his claims may well be accurate!!?For example the former minister of defence Sha'laan. He was a hardcore Baa'thi during the Saddam era. And there are ofcourse the thousands of workers on the various departments which were/are Baa'this.
Maybe there are some violations and indeed torture being used here and there but to compare this to the Saddam era is just plain bs. Iraq is still at war and these things happen, not approving them ofcourse ...

[Argyll]

Everyone seems to forget the US put Allawi into office in the first place......!!

Um Qasr.....well mate,if you're going to exclude former Ba'athist from any positions in Iraq today in places such as Industrial,then Iraq would be in trouble,as there's a lack of non baathists with the neccesary know how,and experience.....look at how many former ba'athists are now in the Military and the Police......

The democracy in Iraq is not the same as the democracy enjoyed by Western countries!....and all the whilst Sadr is manipulating things behind the scenes,just waiting for his moment.....watch this space with him!!

[Octavian]

Youu mean like Blair said the Iraqi's had WMD battle ready in theatre?

Or Bush saying the same thing!!?


Wasn't it Mr. Allawi who told British intelligence that Iraq could deploy WMDs within 45 minutes?

[Omaha]

Look at it this way:

Allawi is running for PM. Which means this isn't a lie, but it is embellished, like all politicians do.

I am more than sure the Iraqis are....a little too rough with prisoners. That is how they were treated/taught/learned from saddam, it is no amazing revaluation that they might resort to that. This has nothing to do with American troops, or America so I don't want to hear that crap deccantrap, don't even try it.

It is nothing more than selecting the wrong people (iraqis) to interrogate people that are arrested. There isn't any exception to any rules, and there aren't any set practices of torture. We would never let that stand.


And I am more than sure in the age we live in, US forces are investigating these alleges of torture. Hate to have this pop up in 6 months says how we ignored these charges.

[Clarsachier]

Quote: "Iraq: Al-Sadr cements position as key player"
Despite continuing violence tied to the cleric, the new government needs him and his popularity among poor Shiites"

http://www.startribune.com/stories/722/5748473.html

Quote: "U.S. Congress report warns of Iran’s meddling in Iraq"

"The report also noted Iran’s relations with Moqtada Al Sadr, another Shiite Islamist cleric, stating, “Iran’s strategy thus far apparently has been to build ties to Sadr and attempt to persuade him to work with SCIRI, Da’wa, and Ayatollah Sistani in the political process, while tolerating — or possibly even encouraging — his occasional challenges to U.S. and British forces in southern Iraq”.

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4599

[Umm-Qasr]

Everyone seems to forget the US put Allawi into office in the first place......!!

Um Qasr.....well mate,if you're going to exclude former Ba'athist from any positions in Iraq today in places such as Industrial,then Iraq would be in trouble,as there's a lack of non baathists with the neccesary know how,and experience.....look at how many former ba'athists are now in the Military and the Police......

The democracy in Iraq is not the same as the democracy enjoyed by Western countries!....and all the whilst Sadr is manipulating things behind the scenes,just waiting for his moment.....watch this space with him!!Well, all the key figures of the Baath party should have been executed since the fall of the regime but that didn't happen. During the first government high officials of the Baath party shouldn't have played any role but they did. I'm not saying that all Baathis should have excluded from participation but just to move on like nothing has ever happened during the last 35 years is a bit ignorant. Just imagine big time Nazis being in the government after WWII ...