Is it possible?

[Zach R.]

I've been thinking about this for a while now,and it's bothered me unlike anything before.I'm wondering if there is a counter-anti terrorist unit,that is more elite than Delta and Devgroup?I've heard of a unit called RedCell.That's the unit Richard Marcinko is in.All I know is it's comprised of Delta and Devgru operators.But,just the thought of the training that a soldier would have to go through to reach a new level of eliteness amazes me to no end.Think about.

[Zach R.]

it

[JiJoMacLE45]

Red Cell, or as it was offically called the Naval Security Coordination Team, was decommissioned in the early 90s. It's charter was to test the security of US Naval installations around the globe and was not so much an operational counterterrorism unit as it was a security testing unit, though the member remained proficient in their operational capabilities. The original composition of the team when it was formed in the mid 80's was roughly a dozen Navy SEALs(one member was a Navy petty officer who was a decorated Force Recon Marine during the Vietnam conflict).

On your original question about whether or not there is a 'super CT unit' floating around out there, the possibility exists. You have some of these small units like TF-157, SeaSpray, ISA, DARISSA and the like that have had such little information released them. It begs to be asked how many other small specialized units existed or exist that will never be heard of. The Brits have had 14 Int, could we have a similiar group out prowling and growling considering the threats we are facing. Maybe.

[Oshkosh1070]

Zach,
Before someone jumps down your throught about Red Cell, here's a rough heads up on them: Red Cell was a group formed by **** Marcinko in the 1980's I believe, I don't have my Rogue Warrior book handy, but it was put together to test the security at sensitive navy sites in the US and abroad. There is some speculation that this was just part of their duties and that in addition Red Cell was a small super secret covert operations group that performed counter terrorism actions abroad using there security testing duties as cover. If this was the case then they were very successful in keeping a lid on the operations because I don't believe any information has come out about operations other than those concerning the testing of base security. Nontheless the groups job discription or cover was that of a base security advisor and oppforce to test the security and the security forces at navy installations and to recommend actions to better safegaurd persons, equipment and facilities. Anyway, Red Cell was disbanded either before or shortly after Marcinko was imprisoned on charges of misusing government funds, again I don't have his book with me so I can't recount the events as accurately as I would like, but maybe someone else can provide more detail. Richard Marcinko retired from the Navy when he was imprisoned by them in I believe 1989. It is highly unlikely that Marcinko is serving in an active tactical role today with the Navy or any other unit because he is 62 or 63 years old...not to discredit his abilities to do so. A great sorce for information on Red Cell would be the novel Rogue Warrior, the biography of Richard Marcinko. Hope this clears things up some. Oshkosh1070[/i]

[Zach R.]

On ****marcinko.com, demo****'s homepage.It lists his accomplishments as he moved up through the ranks.And at the bottom of a paragraph it said that RedCell was America's premier counter-terrorist unit.

[FallenAngel]

is it possible? Of course!

Will we ever know? Definately not ;)

[Piccolo]

Well, Zach, 'Ole Sharkman isn't exactly known for his subtleness, or gracious qualitys for that matter. However, if you would replace 'Counter-Terroism' to 'Anti-Terrorism' in that sentance, it would almost be true.

[DeltaWhisky58]

Oh come on guys.............look further afield, look across the pond to where the real elite troops are. Forget "Bravo Two-Zero" and rubbish like that - Delta was formed becuase of units like 22 SAS and the SBS, and formed in their image on Beckwith's own admission, British special Forces are the real pros in this field. 22 SAS and the SBS are the best of the best, closely followed by units like the Australian SASR, Germany's GSG-9, France's GIGN and others.

I'm not saying that US Special Forces - especially Delta and the SEAL teams - aren't up there with the big boys, but they are just too high profile. Take the latest Middle East conflict - loads of pix of US Special forces here there and everywhere - how many pix have you seen of SAS & SBS troopers in action, or for that matter anywhere. Apart from one pic of an SAS operator in Basra in early April - I haven't seen any!

Low Budget, Low Profile, Highly Motivated..........that's the real Elite!

[FallenAngel]

Actually Delta....I am sure the DoD let's those pictures out for a reason...if not to simply intimidate any future potential enemies with how effective our SOF are. I'm sure if they didn't want our boys shown, they wouldn't be shown :)

[DeltaWhisky58]

Our boys SF keep a low profile for a reason..........Britiain has been exposed to mainstream terrorism for 34 years, we know the meaning of keeping low profile - these guys have families, hence the black boxes over eyes even in the post-retirement books. Terroists have very long memories and mean minds. If you plaster your Special Forces faces all over CNN and the rest of the known world, who knows what might happen.

Many British SF actions are so covert and so successful, nobody hears about them. OK, so there are failures like Bravo Two-Zero, but that was only one small patrol sized operation within a huge conflict

Just remember which SF units have been around the longest, seen most action, had more successes in more varied types of conflict and then ask again who The Elite really are. Britain didn't base its Special Forces on any concept, it invented the concept 60 years ago, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it - end of story!

[FallenAngel]

well then what about the old US OSS? or UDTs? They were developed during the second world war too along side the SAS and SBS, and their missions are also still classified some 60 years later. Of course, they've changed since then. The OSS formed the foundation of today's CIA and the UDTs were merged with some other program (which escaped my mind at the moment) and created the SEAL program. So in a way those units can trace their lineage back just as far as the SAS and other British units. :D

[DeltaWhisky58]

Hi FA

Yes, you have a point with the UDTs becoming the SEALS, albeit with a gap from 1945-62 (correct my dates if I'm wrong). I am also aware that the SAS was stood down from 1945 until the Malayan emergency in the 50s, but Britiain has maintained an SF Cadre almost continually. Answer me one question - if we weren't the best of the best, why did Col. Beckwith study SAS methods, visit Hereford, and get SAS experts to help him set up Delta in the first place. I think I am correct in saying that Delta was founded in the late 70s - yes? Even in GW1 - the US SF commander in the Gulf was taking British SF guidance in how to operate behind Iraqi lines.

I am not questioning the fact that Delta and other US SF units are Elite units, but as such a stupid question about were there forces who were "More Elite" was asked in the first place, I a chipping in my sixpennyworth.

Just remember one thing - Mention "Elite Military Unit" to most people in the free world, outside of the USA and what answer will they give - a major percentage will probably say "SAS".

[Trigger]

if we weren't the best of the best, why did Col. Beckwith study SAS methods, visit Hereford, and get SAS experts to help him set up Delta in the first place
Maybe because they were the only ones capable at the time?
I'm not dissing the SAS. I think they're fantastic, but who else was there to ask?

[FallenAngel]

Point taken....my personal opinion is that SAS and SASR have no equals in the world, although I am definately saying that there are a few groups that come awefully damn close ;)

[DeltaWhisky58]

FA & Trigger

I can live with that........................

[alex_b]

I remember Panama. They had to run around getting Presidential permission for several members of Delta to leave the USA and take part in the invasion because they were under Federal investigation for fiddling something or other.

[Sand Man]

I've been thinking about this for a while now,and it's bothered me unlike anything before.I'm wondering if there is a counter-anti terrorist unit,that is more elite than Delta and Devgroup?I've heard of a unit called RedCell.That's the unit Richard Marcinko is in.All I know is it's comprised of Delta and Devgru operators.But,just the thought of the training that a soldier would have to go through to reach a new level of eliteness amazes me to no end.Think about.

Here. I hope this'll help ...

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82441&highlight=cell

[Fargin]

Has this thread not been dead for three years?

Seems like it was born the 04-25-2003 and died the same day.

[Superking]

I belive that it is internal team dynamics that make any "special ops" unit better than the others, for instance...during our firefighting training we constantly competed with the other teams and in some instances excelled, while in something else like traffic accidents we didnt do as well.

There are upper and lower echelon units in all branches and since training is basicly the same there is no real answer that is not based in pride/patriotism that is valid.

......so i say 60´s SOG ;)

[Sand Man]

Has this thread not been dead for three years?

Seems like it was born the 04-25-2003 and died the same day.

Yeah. It's one of those very popular military topics that just pops up every now and then... :)

[Superking]

Haha, necro-necropost, must have been some important fiddlin´ there Alex.