Police arrest teens, allegedly derail school shooting plot

[Uncle Sam]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-02-11-school-threat_x.htm


SACRAMENTO (AP) — Two 15-year-old students in a suburban Sacramento school district have been arrested, averting what police say was a plan to open fire on a group of students during lunch on Wednesday.
The boys — a freshman and a sophomore — planned to steal guns from a local sporting goods store and set off explosives in Laguna Creek High School's cafeteria, the Sacramento County Sheriff's Department said Tuesday.

The boys had not obtained any weapons or explosives at the time of their arrest, police said, but they had access to a .22 caliber rifle at one of their homes.

Police also found a hand-drawn map of the school cafeteria and hate drawings including swastikas, said sheriff's Sgt. Lou Fatur.

One of the targeted students was an African-American girl, prompting police to label the event a hate crime, but Fatur said it isn't clear all the students were targeted based on race.

"These kids were pretty angry at a lot of people," Fatur said. Both of the arrested students are white, and at least one was new to the high school.

The investigation by the sheriff's department, Elk Grove police, Elk Grove Unified School District and school administrators began at 2 a.m. Sunday. Elk Grove police received a tip that a student "and possibly five or six of his friends" planned to ambush a group of students at the school, police said.

The tip led to the Monday and Tuesday morning arrests of the two boys on suspicion of making terrorist threats, conspiracy and violation of civil rights. Both remained in custody Tuesday.

Four other students were still being questioned by police, who initially determined they had some knowledge of the planning but no direct involvement, said Superintendent Dave Gordon.

Those students "will be disciplined appropriately by school officials," Principal Doug Craig said in a letter to parents Tuesday.

Possible penalties include expulsion, Gordon said, but "none of these individuals will be in school for the foreseeable future."

What prompted the plan and why certain students were targeted was still being investigated Tuesday.

"It's always hard to know what's in the minds of people who would think about these things," Gordon said. "It's a good example of how things have changed, and how alert you have to be."

[Tommy Gunn]

These school shootings have mostly been "Revenge of the Nerds". Usually a couple of anti-social dweebs that get pushed around by the jocks. That has gone on forever, what is different these days are the mass murder-suicides. Strange.

[Tane Angle]

A while back the company I work for was asked to make a case study of threats regarding school violence. It was interesting, I got play substitute teacher for a few days. I also have done a few security assessments (granted, the majority of these were at private schools) for the executive protection shop at this company. From what I learned in both instances, school shootings/related threats are not something that has gone on forever or should just be brushed off. Conversely, people shouldn't be scared of them either. Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[Tengu]

These school shootings have mostly been "Revenge of the Nerds". Usually a couple of anti-social dweebs that get pushed around by the jocks. That has gone on forever, what is different these days are the mass murder-suicides. Strange.oh dear, that brainless stuff you see in the movies and series is actually real??

[usa320]

Back when i was in school- and this wasnt all too long ago- i graduated in 98...but back then people used to settle things with their fists and harsh words. Then there was colombine shooting, and after that is when all the gunfights started happening at schools. Only once did i hear of someone getting suspended from my school for having a weapon, and it was a mere pocket knife.

But since then there is apparently alot more gangs, drugs and guns in schools.

Its sad.

Metal detectors at the door of the school would do wonders IMHO. Only problem is at my school the Security Guards were minimum wage paid hired goons. THe one guy that actually did his job got fired because he pinned a kid that was beating the **** out of another kid with a chair. Metal detectors are useless unless their is trained staff standing guard at them. I think the best way to curb such a threat would be to lock all the side and back doors of the school, and put a metal detector at the front door, this way everyone comming in gets screened. Also putting even one armed guard or police officer would make a great enhancement to security. Had armed officers been at Colombine highschool things would have turned out much differently. Two punks with a sawed off shotgun have no chance against a highly trained security officer or cop with a accurate shot and a good pistol. Had armed guards been in columbine, i think it would have been enough to at least hold the attackers back until SWAT teams could act if not eliminate the attackers.

When i was in HS we had 2 bomb threats. First time it was phoned in in the morning so everyone had to have their bags searched as they entered the building. Lots of potheads were angry that their dimebags got disposed of. The Second time they locked us all down and they sent cops, security guards and administrators around with wands and they had to pat us all down.

Pain in the ass- but if it kept us safe, good.

Students are in school to learn. They shouldnt have to worry about bomb threats, gangs, knifefights or gun battles.

[JiJoMacLE45]

We've received a good deal of training pertaining to active shooters in a school or even an office building for that matter(we're seeing these on the rise). Simunitions(I believe, I wasn't there) ran a course for my PD dealing specifically with this subject matter. It's totally changed the way we would have previously dealt with this type of situation.

[usa320]

Good. But its important that the school security guards or sentries are trained to deal with it as well, or police officers be placed IN the school, because by time the cops arrive on scene, things are probably already ugly.

[Tane Angle]

Note: Columbine was not the first major school shooting, only the most noted. Jonesboro in particular was one to make note of. Also, there aren't many gun battles in these schools, they're more like massacres against civilians. And they are rarely urban.

JiJo, how's that training going? It's very tough work, close quarters fighting among civilians. Not unlike Iraq. Have a good one, just some thoughts...

[pAt]

Last year a shooting almost broke out at my school thank god the princeables got tipped off or else someone was gonna die i herd that there was like 3 cars loaded with people with weapons rangeing from knives to pistols, one Girl got charged for having a pistol on her, after that the cops were at my school everyday at the front door waiting for them to come back and they never did

[Tommy Gunn]

, school shootings/related threats are not something that has gone on forever

I did not say the school shootings have gone on forever. I said that jocks beating up on the nerds is what has gone on forever. I then went on to say that these mass murder sucides are a new phenomina.

If I came across as saying the school schootings have gone on forever, then I will work on my writing skills to avoid future misinterpretations.

[Tommy Gunn]

Last year a shooting almost broke out at my school thank god the princeables got tipped off or else someone was gonna die i herd that there was like 3 cars loaded with people with weapons rangeing from knives to pistols, one Girl got charged for having a pistol on her, after that the cops were at my school everyday at the front door waiting for them to come back and they never did

I doubt that three car loads of people were going to shoot up the schooll. One or two losers, yes. But not a gang.

Thing about rumors is that they get more and more wild as they get passed around.

It is likely the girl carried the pistol because the rumors put alot of fear into her and she wanted some means to protect herself.

[Tane Angle]

Sorry, my bad. I misread your sentence. Have a good one buddy.

[Tengu]

good thing we don't have those horrible things in belgium woot

[hank]

Tane - that is interesting indeed. You are right about Jonesboro - that was a horrific crime that did not get the play of Colombine. My Great Grandmother lived in jonesboro all her life and my grandmother and all my great aunts and uncles went to school there. Hard to imagine that that happened in that sleepy little town.

The thing that sucks about our response to these shootings, and to 911 for that matter also, is that we seem incapable of targeting the people that are likely to again commit the crime. We try to do a blanket approach, metal detectors and airport screenings for everybody, without recognizing that there are certain common characteristics to the children who commit this crime.

Example - my wife is a third grade teacher in a private Catholic Grade school in a well to do suburb in East TN. Gun ownership is high in East TN - but not generall among the parents of these students. These parents, almost exclusively tend to be intellectual types. Not a lot of child deer hunters in her school although the percentage in East TN is very high.

Anyway, one of the boys in her class sent a little note to a friend that had some silly veiled threat and a drawing. Kid is a non-violent type and not a "nerd" or "trouble-maker". the wife has a responsibility, though to report ths incident under the new rules about the warning signs for this violent behavior. Kid ends up having to get psych eval and a whole lot of crap over the deal, and some of the stuff ends up getting run through the local PUBLIC school system under state regulations b/c the wife's school is really too small to have the resources that a large metropolitan school system would have.

Poor kid has no access to weapons of any kind and his parents are just mortified as well as the parents of the little girl who got the note. Ends up that the parents are friends and socialize away from school. Because of teh mandatory rules, however, the whole thinkg spirals out of control and valuable resources get wasted on something that does not really warrant a response. All this while the next Colombine shooters are QUIETLY and under the radar out there planning their crime.

Instead of letting the people who know what is going on deal with it, the mandatory response is incapable of recognizing the true threat level is zilch and everbofy loses.

Just seems like there has to be a better way than what we end up doing. Thoughts?

hank

[JiJoMacLE45]

Our state police actually has a trooper assigned to most high schools, I believe they call them school liasion officers. I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they are there full-time during classes.

In your response to your inquiry Tane, the training is pretty intense. The effects of Columbine really changed policies regarding how we handle these situations. I can't speak for any other department or agency, but as far as mine goes, under old policy when faced with an active shooter incident. First priority was to assist any wounded, contain the individual, evacuate those that you could, and call a 10-40 and wait for the calvary to show. You let the tac guys handle the situation, that's why they get all that overtime. Now that's all changed. When we respond to an active shooter, your first priortity is to locate and 'deal with' them, whether it be apprehend them or if need be, use lethal force. This supercedes evacuting any one in the building or assisting the wounded. But like I said, this is just our policy, it may be different in other places.

[usa320]

One or two losers, yes. But not a gang.

Actually, at my school the bomb threats and kid with a knife were all linked to a gang...also known for selling bowls and bongs.

Gangs are a serious problem in Urban highschools, and even suburban- more so then a decade ago. I blame it on the fact that America's youth is being led down the moral ****ter- with the most recognizable celebraties preaching about "Mowing down some hoes" and how "Its cool to be a thug"...

At our school after the threats they hired 2 more guards, installed cameras, and had a cop stationed in the main hall- but after like a week everything went back to the norm. security guards eating and sitting around. No one monitoring the 100,000 dollar camera systems...