Israel intel chief sets deadline for strike on Iran

[JoGg]

By SHEERA CLAIRE FRENKEL

After March Israel must be prepared to use means other than diplomacy to halt Iran's nuclear weapons program, warned the head of the military intelligence Wednesday.

Military Intelligence Chief Aharon Zeevi Farkash would not detail other options, but sources on the Knesset's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, which Farkash was addressing, said it was clear that Israel would have to consider taking military action against Iran.

"In my years here, seeing the data I have seen, I feel it is clear that Iran has passed the point of no return," said committee chairman Yuval Steinitz (Likud). "It is accurate to say that unless Iran encounters a major interference, it will have a functioning nuclear arsenal within one or two years."

Iran has produced 45 tons of UF- 6 gas that is used in the centrifuge process for producing enriched uranium for nuclear weapons, said Steinitz.

"If by the end of March 2006 the international community will have failed to halt Iran's nuclear weapons program, diplomatic efforts will be pointless," said Farkash. "Iran has the upper hand in negotiations with the international community.
...
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1132475657419&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[akd]

That says nothing about setting a deadline for a strike. That says a deadline for considering a strike, which is an absurd "revelation," as I can guaruntee that Israel has already considered and planned contingencies for such a strike.

Israel has a huge problem here, aside from the international clusterf*ck that would ensue. With no foreign basing, how would they stage such a strike? Through Jordan and Saudi Arabia? Both have increased their air defense capacities since the Iraq facility strike, and would be less likely to allow such an embarrasment to happen again. Through Syria and Iraq? U.S. would be accused (rightly so) of allowing Israel to operate as a proxy force in their name against Arab countries if such an incursion were permitted. If it was not permitted, the Israelies would not make it through opposed. Syria and Turkey? Violating the air space of a NATO member would be very, very bad for Israel.

So what do have here? An article saying that Israel would not rule out military action against Iran. Big news!

[Nordic Fire]

Well, such a strike would be a (foreign) political suicide for Israel.

An unprovoked attack against a sovereign state? Hell, that would give them a pariah status within the international community for years - just like the apartheid South Africa had a few decades ago. EU would freeze all trade with Israel and perhaps even call home some embassadors.

Some of the **** hitting the fan would stick to US too. How much, that would depend on the level of cooperation between US and Israel.

[alexz]

Well, such a strike would be a (foreign) political suicide for Israel.

An unprovoked attack against a sovereign state? Hell, that would give them a pariah status within the international community for years - just like the apartheid South Africa had a few decades ago. EU would freeze all trade with Israel and perhaps even call home some embassadors.

Some of the **** hitting the fan would stick to US too. How much, that would depend on the level of cooperation between US and Israel.

It was already done before by Israel. There is a thank you plaque
from the US defense ministry (given during the 1st gulf war).
France never frogave Israel, Saddam is a close and dear friend.

You are aware the comments the Iranian PM made regarding Israel?

[Moledet]

Well, such a strike would be a (foreign) political suicide for Israel.

An unprovoked attack against a sovereign state? Hell, that would give them a pariah status within the international community for years - just like the apartheid South Africa had a few decades ago. EU would freeze all trade with Israel and perhaps even call home some embassadors.

Some of the **** hitting the fan would stick to US too. How much, that would depend on the level of cooperation between US and Israel.
Heh, give me a brake, we attacked Iraq, we attacked within Lebanon and Syria, no one will do us nothing, especialy not when all wish to get rid of this Iran deal.
And anyway it's way better than death.

akd, the only country that will care that we will attack Iran is Syria, the rest of the Arabs will be very pleased and won't mind letting us through.

[jmatucd]

unprovoked? perhaps you have forgotten the 'wipe israel off the map' policy that Iran openly professes

I doubt the israelis are stupid enough to wait for the Iranians to arm themselves with nuclear arms. Inaction will be suicidal. Nevermind political capital or sanctions - the threat is real.

[AmericanImperialist]

Couldn't Israel launch cruise missiles from submarines and avoid the whole mess of flying over Iraqi aka US airspace in order to strike Iran?

[signatory]

Well. Bombing them (with successful result) would only suspend the alleged construction of nukes for a short period. Iran is a pretty big place with lots of places to hide a nuclear program. Heck, much of the initial work can even be done in another country by computer design.

Hitting delivery systems is a big easier though, or go nuclear and not only benefit from the destruction of sites but also the contamination of very large areas... oh well, not my nut to crack :) good luck

[Sgt.Axeman1224]

^^^ well if you noticed, israel has the best intelligence agency around. Anytime someone claims to be the leader of Hamas they get bombed. I dont believe that they have the capability of hitting all the sites but i can bet that they will do some damage or they wouldnt have considered this option at all.

[Moledet]

Well. Bombing them (with successful result) would only suspend the alleged construction of nukes for a short period. Iran is a pretty big place with lots of places to hide a nuclear program. Heck, much of the initial work can even be done in another country by computer design.

Hitting delivery systems is a big easier though, or go nuclear and not only benefit from the destruction of sites but also the contamination of very large areas... oh well, not my nut to crack :) good luck
Israel bought enough bunker busters for this job and has an air force large enough.

You are right that it will just put the program on hold, but not for a short time, afterall Iran isn't the richest country in the world and it needs to spend its money on other things except nuclear weapons (The Busheir reactor alone costs 10$ billion.).
Repairing what Israel will destroy will cost a lot of money and I think Iran will re-think the project.

The attack on Iraq's reactor had the same goal, putting their ambitions on hold and it was successful, more successful than expected because they totaly ditched the plan.

[RavenW]

Well, such a strike would be a (foreign) political suicide for Israel.

An unprovoked attack against a sovereign state? Hell, that would give them a pariah status within the international community for years


what an amazing logic from our Nordic "friends".

an "unprovoked" (!!!) attack?! :roll: on the country that routinely calls for Holocaust in the Middle East and declares its official policy - a destruction of Jewish state.

a "pariah status with the international community"?!! :roll:

oh, maaan.... so typical European two-faced hypocrasy

Iran - a dictatorial regime that calls for destruction of UN-state member Israel - would we delcare it pariah? oh, no, of course not

Europeans even have embassies with it

But a small democratic state of Jews in the ocean of Asiatic hatred surrounded by savage enemies sworn to its destruction - oh, of course, we Europeans delcare them periahs... after all what Jews would do in response? declare a jihad and would start burn some cars in Paris??

so typical, so very standard response

[TuNeRsHaRk]

holy crap this is pretty big, iw onder if iran being the wannabe hardasses they are if theyre gonna halt their program or if their gonna try and fight isreal

just some more turmoil in the middle east, i wonder if the U.S will butt in i highly doubt it though.

[ElHombre]

a question: what would the impact of such strikes have on the effort by sharon to bring to an end the west bank problem? it's something to consider.

[Laworkerbee]

Well, such a strike would be a (foreign) political suicide for Israel.

An unprovoked attack against a sovereign state? Hell, that would give them a pariah status within the international community for years - just like the apartheid South Africa had a few decades ago. EU would freeze all trade with Israel and perhaps even call home some embassadors.

Some of the **** hitting the fan would stick to US too. How much, that would depend on the level of cooperation between US and Israel.

Another know it all Swede. Are you for real? Iran has been attacking Israel for decades now waging war against her with it's proxy armies in Lebanon. Israel can do no right to people such as yourself, Isreal should do whats in her interests rather than listen to big mouths such as yourself who will simply shrugg your shoulders should Israel be attacked by nuclear weapons. But then again in your eyes they are just Jews anyways...right?

[Top Gun]

Just out of curiousity, could blombing the reactors release any type of fallout or spread radioactive material?

[Moledet]

Just out of curiousity, could blombing the reactors release any type of fallout or spread radioactive material?
It's not yet active, so NO!

[dangerclose]

Well, such a strike would be a (foreign) political suicide for Israel.

An unprovoked attack against a sovereign state? Hell, that would give them a pariah status within the international community for years - just like the apartheid South Africa had a few decades ago. EU would freeze all trade with Israel and perhaps even call home some embassadors.

Some of the **** hitting the fan would stick to US too. How much, that would depend on the level of cooperation between US and Israel.

Newsflash: Israel is already a pariah among the international community (made up mostly of tyrants and/or their appeasers). Who cares about what insignificant european countries think anyways? They have their own problems.


Israel should nuke europe.

Did I say that out loud?

[Kekkonen]

Iran has been attacking Israel for decades now waging war against her with it's proxy armies in Lebanon.

Not only did you just make up something just to get to argue in an internet forum. You also had to to pull the anti-semite card on Nordic Fire as well to somehow give the rubbish you wrote some kind of "legitimacy". Unfortunately I have news for you, the anti-semite card went out of date 1948.

Israel would be punished by EU, they always get some help from USA but I'm sure the Israelis would notice that they were punished, they do after all consider themself belonging in the western European cultural spehere.

[Laworkerbee]

Sorry to say it has not friend.

and I prefer Jew Hater instead of anti-semite, just calling it like I see it.

And what the hell did I make up? Iran's war by Proxy?

pull your head from your ass if thats the case

[Kekkonen]

And what the hell did I make up? Iran's war by Proxy?

pull your head from your ass if thats the case

And Iraq is Israel's war by proxy as seen by many Iranians. So I think I will keep my head in the ass, it's warm and cosy there and I don't have to see extremists like you et al ruining this world.

May I ask, how old are you?

[Laworkerbee]

LOL now I'm an extremist because I side with the Israeli's on this issue eh? Notice I said this issue becuase I've had many disagreements on issues with them in the past. But if I must guess if I go through your post history chances are you constantly side against the Jewish stateand if thats the case and your can piss right off ssince you'd be nothing more than another racist in Sheeps clothing

And trying to invoke the age issue? I'm probably old enough to be your daddy. But hey way to stay on topic wanker

[TuNeRsHaRk]

wonder why this isnt on cnn yet?

[Laworkerbee]

Plus I'm still waiting to hear what it is I've made up?

Not only did you just make up something just to get to argue in an internet forum.

Seems that you just descibed yourself doesn't it? :)

Wank

[Kekkonen]

But if I must guess if I go through your post history chances are you constantly side against the Jewish stateand if thats the case and your can piss right off ssince you'd be nothing more than another racist in Sheeps clothing

Do that, might take you a while with the 800+ posts, but you will learn a lot. Have fun!

On a sidenote I read that the Iranian parliament is on a conflict course with Ahmadinejad (yes they have a parliament with actual power to kick away the president, how would have thought, not a lots of extremists here atleast). The Israelis are dumbasses if they do anything to Iran now, as it is now the hardcore Ahmadinejad might just get removed by the parliament and replaced by a more moderate president. The hated jews bombing them would only unify them.

[Kekkonen]

Plus I'm still waiting to hear what it is I've made up?

That "Iran" fights a war by proxy. Funny but a bit over the line, Israel would have been bleeding if that was so, Iran only gives moral and limited economic support to those fighting Israel. The weapon deliveries are totally irrelevant, US delivers weapons to dictatorships as they please without any guarantees on how they will be used, same thing with the Iranian weaponry in Hezbollah hands.

Guns don't kill.

[Laworkerbee]

That "Iran" fights a war by proxy. Funny but a bit over the line, Israel would have been bleeding if that was so, Iran only gives moral and limited economic support to those fighting Israel. The weapon deliveries are totally irrelevant, US delivers weapons to dictatorships as they please without any guarantees on how they will be used, same thing with the Iranian weaponry in Hezbollah hands.

Guns don't kill.

It's pointless discussing this with you. moral and economic support eh? then you go on the say weapons deliveries are totaly irrelevant. It's called war by proxy which you totaly understand and support. And then you patheticaly keep trying to justify Iran's proxy attacks on Israel with items about America's foreign policy. Your argument carries less than air. You simply hate the exsistence of the Jewish state...just come out and say it and stop pretending your not a in the closet racist.

[alexz]

Guns don't kill.

Neither do JDAMS. Israel should wait for you do give the
red light for an attack on Iran, this way were all be happy.

[alexz]

I wonder if there is a change in policy regarding Iran.

ST. PETERSBURG—In an unexpected governmental shake-up, former Russian Prime Minister and presidential envoy to the to Volga federal District, Sergei Kiriyenko, has been named as the new head of the Russian Agency for Atomic Energy, (Rosatom), replacing Alexander Rumyantsev, who had served at the post for four years.

http://www.bellona.no/en/international/russia/waste-mngment/40781.html

[signatory]

Well this thread is thread-ing water I just want to say @ TuNeRsHaRk your avatar rocks :)

[Laworkerbee]

Oh Kekkonen attacking my reputation points now LOL

what a Chicken**** rofl

[Crassus]

I´m afraid that I don´t know exactly is the nuclear reactor a necessity to build a nuclear bomb. What I have understood you can create plutonium with nuclear reactor but you can also build a bomb based on uranium. So in order to get uranium you need large amounts centrifugals. And this in my opinion is the main problem.

I really don´t care so-called moral side bombing of Iran but what puzzles me the chances of succes. Iran have most likely learned what happened 1981 Iraq and they have diversifed their nuclear program. I would not mind to see IDF bombing to Iran´s nuclear reactor to pieces but would that solve the problem? Could IDF reach the other plants as well. IMO not without US taking also part of the strikes and that is not an option because it would escalate crisis in the Middle-East, Iraq etc.

In current situation we probably have to face the fact that Iran will have a functional nuclear weapon(s) in the next two years.

[Kilgor]

Should it be done ? maybe
Could it be done... IMO no.

The Iranians have learned from the bombing of the Iraqi reactor (o'chirac ;) which of course they had a crack at. Id say many of their facilities are deep underground, hidden and well dispersed unlike the centralised iraq program.

Its very unlikely the israelis would get everything hit, and would just be a pretext for Iran to launch a attack.

[TuNeRsHaRk]

the question is if iran would do anything in response to isreals attacks?

i highly doubt they could make it anywhere near isreal because they have to fly over either iraq,turkey,kuwait,suadi arabia Etc Etc and they would most likely get shot down if theyre flying anywhere near there

[Fenix]

Another know it all Swede. Are you for real? Iran has been attacking Israel for decades now waging war against her with it's proxy armies in Lebanon. Israel can do no right to people such as yourself, Isreal should do whats in her interests rather than listen to big mouths such as yourself who will simply shrugg your shoulders should Israel be attacked by nuclear weapons. But then again in your eyes they are just Jews anyways...right?

I am from Finland and I think there is a simple solution to everything.

1) Have Bush call Teheran and say these exact words: "Ok, so, you want to be big boys, you want nuclear weapons. Ok, go, make some nuclear weapons. But please remember, the second you use them, we will fire a salvo on your country that will make it unlivable for the next thousand years. "

2) As long as they want nuclear weapons, make it clear to all the countries that want to be in business with USA that if they deal with Iran, USA will not buy or sell anything from them.

3) Wait for the current ruling class to slowly die off. Because I am 100 % certain that the only reason why they want nukes, is to guarantee that USA can not attack Iran and send the ruling class to prisons.

4) From what Ive read, a lot of Iranians actually were pretty pro America back in the day.. So, give them time, let them suffer from their nuclear ambitions.. Then, once the ruling class dies, 30 - 40 years from now,
fire a full salvo of American entertaiment their way..

5) Profit.. :D

[JJPHATX]

some of ur comments are quite disturbing.

I'm glad Israel is considering using military force once again, as they had done before against Iraq. Iran is a threat to the world, even the arabs considering the fact that iranians are persian. They get a nuclear weapon, and it's game over gentlemen, because something is going up in smoke.

[Fenix]

some of ur comments are quite disturbing.

I'm glad Israel is considering using military force once again, as they had done before against Iraq. Iran is a threat to the world, even the arabs considering the fact that iranians are persian. They get a nuclear weapon, and it's game over gentlemen, because something is going up in smoke.

It is a damned if you do damned if you do not kind of decision. I think USA wont let Iran have nukes because they do not want the Iranian regime to have any more power over the area than they already have.

But I am also pretty sure that Iranian regime is commited on getting the nukes as soon as possible.

So, the "game" is on.

I am just saying that if Iran does get nukes, it is does not neccessarily mean the end of the world. It did not in fifties and it does not have to now.

If they are mad, well, then we are all ****ed.

[vryhpyammoadded]

Why bomb them now?
Israel should announce the deployment of about 200 Thermonuclear tipped IRBM’s the day after Iran is known to have completed their bomb and state if “any” WMD attack occurs that Iran and any other nearby enemy can expect to cease to exist.
MAD might just be the thing to sober those lead Iranian nutcases back into reality and help them learn to coexist with civilized folk again.

[Miles.]

LAworkerbee is by no means a Pro-Israel hack. He's never made up anything, well, besides having a girlfriend... ;)

@Special K

Iran supports Hezbollah politically, financially and materially, and Hezbollah launches all manner of attacks on Israel using the support and training given them by Iran.

That's the definition of a proxy war!!!!!!!

Other proxy wars in history:

Korean Conflict - Russia, China support N. Korea with weapons, logistics (and troops/advisors) versus S. Korea/the Free-market West

Vietnam - Russia, China support N. Vietnam and Viet Cong with weapons, logistics, (and troops/advisors) versus S. Vietnam/US/Anglo-saxon countries

[Anthony91]

I am from Finland and I think there is a simple solution to everything.

1) Have Bush call Teheran and say these exact words: "Ok, so, you want to be big boys, you want nuclear weapons. Ok, go, make some nuclear weapons. But please remember, the second you use them, we will fire a salvo on your country that will make it unlivable for the next thousand years. "

2) As long as they want nuclear weapons, make it clear to all the countries that want to be in business with USA that if they deal with Iran, USA will not buy or sell anything from them.

3) Wait for the current ruling class to slowly die off. Because I am 100 % certain that the only reason why they want nukes, is to guarantee that USA can not attack Iran and send the ruling class to prisons.

4) From what Ive read, a lot of Iranians actually were pretty pro America back in the day.. So, give them time, let them suffer from their nuclear ambitions.. Then, once the ruling class dies, 30 - 40 years from now,
fire a full salvo of American entertaiment their way..

5) Profit.. :D

I would use the 1st one. But thats just me

[Laworkerbee]

milespenhall-texas- LAworkerbee is by no means a Pro-Israel hack. He's never made up anything, well, besides having a girlfriend...

Thanks buddy and Fenix I think your right on the money about the Iranian people in general we have many Persians here I grew up with that hate the Mullah's and I swear my Finnish girlfriend really does exist.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59623&page=12 scroll down and tell me that aint 100% Finn baby :)

See she does exist Mike! or at least on the interweb woot

[Teaser]

Heh, give me a brake, we attacked Iraq, we attacked within Lebanon and Syria, no one will do us nothing, especialy not when all wish to get rid of this Iran deal.
And anyway it's way better than death.

akd, the only country that will care that we will attack Iran is Syria, the rest of the Arabs will be very pleased and won't mind letting us through.

I have to disagree with you buddy, Iran is the mother of all Islamic resistance against Israel, and if Israel does something stupid. Well..................................... SAY HELLO TO THE SUCIDE BOMBERS!!!!!

[Laworkerbee]

Teaser you are a seriously out of touch individual if you believe Arabs consider Persians the center of anything.

[Miles.]

Yeah, I've seen your pictures, LAworkerbee. She's definetely real...really beautiful, that is. How come you didn't put the black bar over your eyes, man? All the cool kids do it. ;)

Teaser, Israel has already said hello to suicide twats. Nothing new, buddy!! In fact, I read a while back that an Israeli woman blew one away in a supermarket, 2 point-blank shots to the head. True definition of a pussy: one who can't fight, and would rather murder women and children.

Anyways, LAworkerbee, how much is the Mossad paying to say these things?! I need a better job...

[alexz]

I have to disagree with you buddy, Iran is the mother of all Islamic resistance against Israel, and if Israel does something stupid. Well..................................... SAY HELLO TO THE SUCIDE BOMBERS!!!!!

What does Israel have that Iran wants back, other then Baha'u'llah's bones?

[Pille1234]

the question is if iran would do anything in response to isreals attacks?

i highly doubt they could make it anywhere near isreal because they have to fly over either iraq,turkey,kuwait,suadi arabia Etc Etc and they would most likely get shot down if theyre flying anywhere near there
They have such ugly things like cruise missiles, although I don't have any information about numbers and precision. Worst case scenario are bio- and or chemical warheads. However there are other less drastic options. Don't make the mistake to believe that iranian Hisbollah- and terror support runs already at maximum capacity.

[TuNeRsHaRk]

oh god a bio attack would be horrible but iran would sign their own death warrant if they ever pulled off such a thing.

[Pille1234]

Couldn't Israel launch cruise missiles from submarines and avoid the whole mess of flying over Iraqi aka US airspace in order to strike Iran?
Hardly. Israel has only 3 conventional subs. Although quite capable, The number of missiles they could bring to the party reduces them to an additional element at best. Besides, it is unknown what cruise missile would be used and what range and warhead they have. Subharpoon or an israeli rip 'off is rather suboptimal for a country of Iran's size, not to speak of their ineffectiveness against hardened targets.
Another question is, how would the subs get unnoticed in the area of operation. Through the suez channal or through Gibraltar all the way around Africa? I find that hard to imagine, although the Israelis are always good for surprises...

[alexz]

Hardly. Israel has only 3 conventional subs. Although quite capable, The number of missiles they could bring to the party reduces them to an additional element at best. Besides, it is unknown what cruise missile would be used and what range and warhead they have. Subharpoon or an israeli rip 'off is rather suboptimal for a country of Iran's size, not to speak of their ineffectiveness against hardened targets.
Another question is, how would the subs get unnoticed in the area of operation. Through the suez channal or through Gibraltar all the way around Africa? I find that hard to imagine, although the Israelis are always good for surprises...

There are 2 more subs on the way and they don't
go through the canal' but around Africa and to the
Arebian sea.

[Snoshi]

Good news.

[dogboon]

Hopefully it's just an empty threat, because they already have enough enemies in the middle east. If they do it, they'll kill their newest, potential ally in the middle east: Iraq.

[Greek soldier]

Socialist Left politicians want boycott of Israel
Several central politicians of the Socialist Left Party demand that party leader and finance minister Kristin Halvorsen will convince the Government to impose a national trade boycott of Israel, NRK reports.

http://www.norwaypost.no/cgi-bin/norwaypost/imaker?id=19491

Who else will follow?

[Snoshi]

Well they just wont get any juicy oranges that all, they will suffer. :)

[ViriiK]

Hopefully it's just an empty threat, because they already have enough enemies in the middle east. If they do it, they'll kill their newest, potential ally in the middle east: Iraq.Israel has the support of Jordan and that says enough for me. Egypt don't want another war with Israel as they've had too many problems over it such as losing the Sinai region to Israel (Which was given back in a peace treaty). The Syrian's are in enough trouble as it is because of UN political pressure regarding the Hariri Assassination.

[Moledet]

I have to disagree with you buddy, Iran is the mother of all Islamic resistance against Israel, and if Israel does something stupid. Well..................................... SAY HELLO TO THE SUCIDE BOMBERS!!!!!
Kid, you have no clue what you are talking about, after all the **** that you have written here you should keep your mouth shut, learn and then maybe in a year from now write a post.

All the Arabs hate the Iranis except Syria, why? Because they are Shi'a and most of the Arabs are Sunnis and they hate each other, why? Because Sunnis consider Shi'as as a kafirs and Sunnis used to persecute Shi'as.

BTW, our fear is not that they will use the nuclear weapon against us, but that they will be protected from any action against them because of this weapon and they will massively and publicaly support terrorism against Israel and Israelis.

[Snoshi]

What kind of SAM's are israeli planes likly to face?

[keimo lantio]

Greatest mistake was to establish Israel where it is now and that is a fact. I don't say that they should have their own land, but it is in the wrong place. If you take you bias-glasses of for a second, you know it's true.

Of course, now I gonna labelled as terrorist, communist, anti-semitist, leftist, anarchist, euro-wussie etc. Ok, so be it then.

[Snoshi]

Greatest mistake was to establish Israel where it is now and that is a fact. I don't say that they should have their own land, but it is in the wrong place. If you take you bias-glasses of for a second, you know it's true.

Of course, now I gonna labelled as terrorist, communist, anti-semitist, leftist, anarchist, euro-wussie etc. Ok, so be it then.

Where should it have been done then?

[tribal]

That "Iran" fights a war by proxy. Funny but a bit over the line, Israel would have been bleeding if that was so, Iran only gives moral and limited economic support to those fighting Israel. The weapon deliveries are totally irrelevant, US delivers weapons to dictatorships as they please without any guarantees on how they will be used, same thing with the Iranian weaponry in Hezbollah hands.

Guns don't kill.


hahahahahahaaa!!!! i like this kekonen character. amusing son of a bitch.

[Pille1234]

There are 2 more subs on the way and they don't
go through the canal' but around Africa and to the
Arebian sea.
I know, but when those 2 subs enter service the bombing already took place or it won't anymore.

[akd]

wonder why this isnt on cnn yet?

Because it lacks the new part of news. See my original post about the misleading headline given to the article.

[Ariha]

Greatest mistake was to establish Israel where it is now and that is a fact. I don't say that they should have their own land, but it is in the wrong place. If you take you bias-glasses of for a second, you know it's true.

Of course, now I gonna labelled as terrorist, communist, anti-semitist, leftist, anarchist, euro-wussie etc. Ok, so be it then.

Should the Tibetans change their land because the Chinese want it?

Should the real owners of Sudan; the Africans of the south move because the arab sudanese envy their land?

Must the Berebers of North Africa emigrate because of the pressure of the arab conquerors?

Your nickname seems to be Finnish. Do you have enough room for all of us in Lapland or the Lakes region?

Appeasement does´t calm down the agressor it increases his hunger. The Europeans should learn this for once, before too late for them.

[keimo lantio]

Should the Tibetans change their land because the Chinese want it?

Should the real owners of Sudan; the Africans of the south move because the arab sudanese envy their land?

Must the Berebers of North Africa emigrate because of the pressure of the arab conquerors?

Your nickname seems to be Finnish. Do you have enough room for all of us in Lapland or the Lakes region?

Appeasement does´t calm down the agressor it increases his hunger. The Europeans should learn this for once, before too late for them.

Your examples are not so good since Israel is different thing. Your nick refers to Jericho, so I must assume that your from Israel. "Erets Yisrael", that the foundation for traditional thinking that once Israel was empty and abandoned land --> non habitat land for countryless people. So called "Israelis" thought innocently that they will bring prosperity to this land. However, Arabs were not so delighted about their arrival. in 1947 UN suggested that Brittish "mandate area" would be divided between Arabs and jewish people.

Well, Arabs did not liked jewish to come there, so they started armed fight in which other Arab countries joined. They failed miserably and ~700 000 arabs left Palestina due to the demands by other Arab leaders (even though they were urged to stay by "Israelis").

Well the arab version in totally different (of course) and problems are ready to explode.

Tom Segev is one those "new historians" who have stirred the hornets nest by rewriting the history of Israel and as you know Benny Morris's book The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem 1947–49 was quite bomb when it was published in 1987.

As i said, the problem is deep rooted and will not be solved easily.

And yes, we have more than enough space for you ;) If it would be up to me, you would be all welcomed here.

[alexz]

Your examples are not so good since Israel is different thing. Your nick refers to Jericho, so I must assume that your from Israel. "Erets Yisrael", that the foundation for traditional thinking that once Israel was empty and abandoned land --> non habitat land for countryless people. So called "Israelis" thought innocently that they will bring prosperity to this land. However, Arabs were not so delighted about their arrival. in 1947 UN suggested that Brittish "mandate area" would be divided between Arabs and jewish people.

Well, Arabs did not liked jewish to come there, so they started armed fight in which other Arab countries joined. They failed miserably and ~700 000 arabs left Palestina due to the demands by other Arab leaders (even though they were urged to stay by "Israelis").

Well the arab version in totally different (of course) and problems are ready to explode.

Tom Segev is one those "new historians" who have stirred the hornets nest by rewriting the history of Israel and as you know Benny Morris's book The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem 1947–49 was quite bomb when it was published in 1987.

As i said, the problem is deep rooted and will not be solved easily.

And yes, we have more than enough space for you ;) If it would be up to me, you would be all welcomed here.


Jerichon is not in Israel and you haven't explained why the so called
"Israelis" shouldn't live in Israel, ther then the Arabs don'y want them too.
P.S.
It was the UN that voted for a Jewish and a Palestinian states,
not a British decision.

[keimo lantio]

Jerichon is not in Israel and you haven't explained why the so called
"Israelis" shouldn't live in Israel, ther then the Arabs don'y want them too.
P.S.
It was the UN that voted for a Jewish and a Palestinian states,
not a British decision.

First of all, I did not say that Jericho is in Israel"... I assume that.." . Secondly, I said "UN suggested", I did not said anything about British making any decision???

AND, most certainly I did not say that Israelis who now live in Israel should move, that's is of course impossible.

As historical point of view, I said that the state of Israel in the first place was established in the wrong place (geographically and politically)

[alexz]

First of all, I did not say that Jericho is in Israel"... I assume that.." . Secondly, I said "UN suggested", I did not said anything about British making any decision???

AND, most certainly I did not say that Israelis who now live in Israel should move, that's is of course impossible.

As historical point of view, I said that the state of Israel in the first place was established in the wrong place (geographically and politically)

Where is the right place?

[Fenix]

First of all, I did not say that Jericho is in Israel"... I assume that.." . Secondly, I said "UN suggested", I did not said anything about British making any decision???

AND, most certainly I did not say that Israelis who now live in Israel should move, that's is of course impossible.

As historical point of view, I said that the state of Israel in the first place was established in the wrong place (geographically and politically)

So how do you feel about the Iranian goverment officials who wow to wipe Israel from the map?

[keimo lantio]

So how do you feel about the Iranian goverment officials who wow to wipe Israel from the map?

Well, should I say that it certainly does not make my point any weaker, don't you think?

And, how do I feel is totally another matter and it does not contradict anything I wrote earlier.

All Arab countries have yelled for the destruction of Israel and poor bastards have even tried it few times without any success. Is that something new? If Iranians try to pull some nasty tricks against Israel, they are entitled to defend themselves.

What do you expect me to say, it's ok? How tollo you are?

[Teaser]

What does Israel have that Iran wants back, other then Baha'u'llah's bones?

Ummm, gee good question. Oh I almost forgot, PALESTINIAN FREEDOM MAYBE!?

[alexz]

Ummm, gee good question. Oh I almost forgot, PALESTINIAN FREEDOM MAYBE!?

Palestinians are Iranians?

[Teaser]

Palestinians are Iranians?

No. But Iranians see Palestinians as Muslims. And Jerusalem is seen as a holy site of Islam. Thats why there is so much war between Israel and Muslims in the Middle East about that city. Muslims feel that their duty is to protect the muslims in Palestine. Muslims used to pray in the direction to Jerusalem before switching to the Holy city of Mecca. I am sure Israel would want to help Jewish populations being in the middle of an war in an Muslim known country. I mean, wouldn't you want to help?

[Belrick]

Bah its the nature of the world for the weka to bemoan the advantages held by the strong. At the end of the day arabs are weak and Israel is strong. It may not always stay that way but untill then we have to put up with the whinging.

[ed316]

No. But Iranians see Palestinians as Muslims. And Jerusalem is seen as a holy site of Islam. Thats why there is so much war between Israel and Muslims in the Middle East about that city. Muslims feel that their duty is to protect the muslims in Palestine. Muslims used to pray in the direction to Jerusalem before switching to the Holy city of Mecca. I am sure Israel would want to help Jewish populations being in the middle of an war in an Muslim known country. I mean, wouldn't you want to help?


The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not a Muslim issue. It is a dispute over land, it is about an occupation that must end and it is about a people who deserve a state. But it is not a religious dispute.

For too long, the assumption that this is a religious conflict has gone unquestioned, with dangerous consequences. A friend of two British men of Pakistani descent who set off explosives in London on July 7 that killed themselves along with more than 50 others told The Washington Post recently he had seen the bombers watching a DVD that purported to show an Israeli soldier killing a Palestinian girl.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been one of the most jumped upon bandwagons in both the Arab and the Muslim world but framing it in religious terms serves no one’s interest, least of all the Palestinians.
The humiliation of the 1967 defeat or the Naksa not only dealt a deadly blow to pan-Arabism – which up till then had been the patron father of the Palestinian cause – but it also opened the door for Islamists to claim the Israeli-Palestinian issue as their own. And ever since, they have steadily shaped it to their liking.

The Muslim Brotherhood and fundamentalist groups in the Arab world used the 1967 defeat to remind the region’s mostly secular leaders that their defeat was because of those leaders’ godlessness. And ever since, the more Islamic you could make Palestine, the more legitimate you became.

So it is no wonder that Hamas has moved to the forefront of Palestinian politics, along with an Islamist ideology that bans cultural festivals and which it uses to act like the moral police of the Palestinians.

Encouraged to flourish by Israel in the 1980s as a counterweight to the secular Fatah – in the same way that the late Egyptian President Anwar Sadat encouraged the Muslim Brotherhood in a bid to keep in check Nasserites and leftists – Hamas was all too happy to frame the conflict between Palestinians and Israelis in religious terms that pitted Muslims against Jews.

The less democratic and more corrupt Palestinian politics became under the late Yasser Arafat, the more the Islamist way of doing things moved centre stage. And so suicide bombings, which had long been the bloody signature of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, were adopted by al-Aqsa Martyr’s Brigade.

Muftis and clerics in the Arab world gave their blessings to suicide bombings, laying another layer of religiosity atop the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. These same muftis and clerics today are trying to persuade us that violence in the name of religion is wrong but it is too late – their damage will take years to undo.
Suicide bombings do not come with an off button and once they were made legitimate against Israelis, what was to stop them from being used against others?
Suicide bombings are the Muslim weapon of choice not only in London and Israel but in Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Turkey. They are killing Muslims and non-Muslims alike, and yet our imams and scholars cannot condemn them.
For too long the easiest Friday sermon to give began and ended by cursing the “Zionists”, often interchanging Zionist with Jew, stopping along the way to inflame the worshippers with news of the latest humiliations or atrocities committed by the Israelis against the Palestinians.

So nobody should have been surprised that after years of not uttering a word about Palestine nor about the struggle of its people to be free of occupation and to have a state of their own, Osama Bin Laden suddenly discovered the goldmine that lay beneath the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Was anyone paying attention when two young British men of Pakistani descent went to Israel to carry out a suicide attack on a Tel Aviv nightclub on April 30, 2003? Assif Muhammad Hanif, blew himself up at Mike's Place, a Tel Aviv nightspot, killing three other people. Two weeks later, the body of another British citizen, Omar Khan Sharif, who Israeli investigators say fled the bar after a bomb he was carrying failed to detonate, was found in the sea off Tel Aviv.

Who persuaded these young men to leave Britain and go to Israel to die for Palestine?

Yes Israel must end its occupation of the West Bank and Gaza and yes the Palestinians deserve a state but cynical terrorist masterminds who are all too willing to send young Muslim men to their deaths have long exploited the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to their own ends. And irresponsible clerics and religious leaders, radical or otherwise, use the conflict to flesh out the victimized-Muslim scenario.

If only they would deliver equally impassioned sermons encouraging our young people in the West to become more active members of their communities and to not live caught between two worlds: a Muslim one at home and in the mosque, an "infidel" one outside.

Furthermore, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not a Muslim issue for the simple reason that it concerns Christians too. Jerusalem is holy to Muslims, Jews and Christians. Muslims do not own the conflict.

Jerusalem is home to the Church of the Holy Sepulcher; Bethlehem is home to the Church of the Nativity. There are plenty of Palestinian Christians also living under occupation and their plight is not made any easier because they are Christian. Israeli soldiers and Israeli tanks do not distinguish between Muslim and Palestinian Christians.

By allowing Islamists to co-opt the conflict, by allowing it to become an issue that is supposed to inflame Muslim anger around the world, the Palestinian cause loses the sympathy of many people who might otherwise lend support but feel alienated by the increasingly Muslim terms within which the conflict is expressed.

It is long past time to wrestle back Palestine from the grasp of Islamists who have been all too eager to fly its flag for their own political ends. It is imperative to condemn suicide attacks everywhere – they are wrong when they are carried out in Israel and they are wrong when they are carried out in Baghdad, London or Sharm el-Sheikh.

And it is about time we said loud and clear that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not a Muslim issue. It is a human issue.

[Moledet]

No. But Iranians see Palestinians as Muslims. And Jerusalem is seen as a holy site of Islam. Thats why there is so much war between Israel and Muslims in the Middle East about that city. Muslims feel that their duty is to protect the muslims in Palestine. Muslims used to pray in the direction to Jerusalem before switching to the Holy city of Mecca. I am sure Israel would want to help Jewish populations being in the middle of an war in an Muslim known country. I mean, wouldn't you want to help?
You know what's the problem with Muslims? They see the conflict as a religious one and not as a territorial conflict.
Why don't we have any conflict with Turkey, Kuwait, Algeria, Jordan and Egypt? Aren't they muslims?

The only reason Iran supports the Palestinians is to distabilise the situation, anytimes there's a calm they try to stir it back to war, they don't give a damn about the Palestinians interest, they just want more bloodshed because it hurts Israel.

[Fenix]

Well, should I say that it certainly does not make my point any weaker, don't you think?

And, how do I feel is totally another matter and it does not contradict anything I wrote earlier.

All Arab countries have yelled for the destruction of Israel and poor bastards have even tried it few times without any success. Is that something new? If Iranians try to pull some nasty tricks against Israel, they are entitled to defend themselves.

What do you expect me to say, it's ok? How tollo you are?

I was not expecting you to contradict anything, I was just probing how far left your ideas are. Yes, I was expecting you to say it is ok, since I really see where you are coming from. Polkkypaa.

[RavenW]

..........

[Laworkerbee]

You know what's the problem with Muslims? They see the conflict as a religious one and not as a territorial conflict.
Why don't we have any conflict with Turkey, Kuwait, Algeria, Jordan and Egypt? Aren't they muslims?

The only reason Iran supports the Palestinians is to distabilise the situation, anytimes there's a calm they try to stir it back to war, they don't give a damn about the Palestinians interest, they just want more bloodshed because it hurts Israel.

My Palestinian friends always tell me how the Big mouthed Saudi's and the brave Iranians will fight Israel to the last Palestinian...gotta love thier sense of humor p-)

[Laworkerbee]

Ummm, gee good question. Oh I almost forgot, PALESTINIAN FREEDOM MAYBE!?

I feel sorry for your mother, oh the shame...

[Bulabash]

Palestinians are Arabs, Iranians are Persians, there is no common ground other than Iranian interests in the region. I would say that Israel should bomb Iran sooner rather than later. After that it will take Iran twenty years to get over it. Arabians will be outraged for a while (Just for show and Muslim sympathy) and then things will get back to the usual.

Just on a historical note, Palestinians dont actually exist, Israel where it now is was at the time of the Romans known as Judea, later called palestine by the Romans as an insult to the Judeans for their stubbornness (they called it after the Judeans' arch enemy the Philistines) Palestinians as we know them now are Arabs that is all.

[BlackRain]

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/IranianNuclearHatred.jpg


Military Intelligence Chief Aharon Zeevi Farkash would not detail other options, but sources on the Knesset’s Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, which Farkash was addressing, said it was clear that Israel would have to consider taking military action against Iran.

“In my years here, seeing the data I have seen, I feel it is clear that Iran has passed the point of no return,” said committee chairman Yuval Steinitz (Likud). “It is accurate to say that unless Iran encounters a major interference, it will have a functioning nuclear arsenal within one or two years.”

Iran has produced 45 tons of UF- 6 gas that is used in the centrifuge process for producing enriched uranium for nuclear weapons, said Steinitz.

“If by the end of March 2006 the international community will have failed to halt Iran’s nuclear weapons program, diplomatic efforts will be pointless,” said Farkash. “Iran has the upper hand in negotiations with the international community.”

[Snoshi]

Bomb it already before they get more AA

200 post!

[tribal]

how the hell can IAF bomb multiple reactors. I bet you Iran already has nukes and delivery systems, and if Israel misses just 1, the entire middle east will be FUBAR. this isnt as 'easy' as the Osirak strike. Intelligence is #1 key to having a successful attack.

[Snoshi]

how the hell can IAF bomb multiple reactors. I bet you Iran already has nukes and delivery systems, and if Israel misses just 1, the entire middle east will be FUBAR. this isnt as 'easy' as the Osirak strike. Intelligence is #1 key to having a successful attack.

i belive that u dont even have to destroy it compleatly, just bomb it so it wont be working.

[Laworkerbee]

ERUSALEM, Dec. 2 - Israel conducted a successful test of its missile-interception system today, shooting down an incoming missile intended to simulate those in Iran's arsenal, the Defense Ministry said.

The test came a day after Israel's prime minister, Ariel Sharon, said that Israel could not accept an Iran with nuclear weapons.

In the latest test of the Arrow antimissile system, an Israeli aircraft over the Mediterranean Sea fired a missile on a trajectory designed to emulate an Iranian Shahab-3. woot woot woot woot woot woot woot woot woot woot woot

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/02/international/middleeast/02cnd-mideast.html

[dogboon]

Sigh.

I guess the war is just waiting to happen. Just get it over with already. =/

[keimo lantio]

Sigh.

I guess the war is just waiting to happen. Just get it over with already. =/

It certainly seems so. Well, I hope that tey will stick only in this sabre rattling.

[Asheren]

I just wonder what eurowussies will do when iran get their nukes and start their sabre rattle aiming them on europe. Biggest problem with all those reigmes is that they always need external enemies. If they end with Israel they will turn their attention on someone else. Hmm restore cordoba emirate anyone?