New polish s-propeled 155mm howitzer + Patria AMV and other.

[Marmot1]

Krab
http://www.cpw.hsw.pl/images/prod_ll3foto1.jpg
http://www.bulba.eu.org/mil/free/gp/krab(4).jpg
http://www.bulba.eu.org/mil/free/gp/krab(5).jpg
http://www.bulba.eu.org/mil/free/gp/krab(3).jpg
http://www.bulba.eu.org/mil/free/gp/krab(2).jpg
http://www.bulba.eu.org/mil/free/gp/krab(1).jpg
Patria AMV
http://www.bulba.eu.org/mil/free/gp/patria.jpg
http://www.bulba.eu.org/mil/free/gp/patria(2).jpg
http://www.bulba.eu.org/mil/free/gp/patria(3).jpg
http://www.army.fr.pl/link.php?k=gp&plik=patria(4).jpg

Patria AMV should be in polish units before end of this year or maybe even earlier...

[Operation Ivy]

Exactly how new is it

and it looks sweet woot

[Marmot1]

Exactly how new is it

and it looks sweet woot
Certification process finished last year so first Krab's should be introduced this year or next to units currently they are working on certification of fire control unit e.t.c but howitzer itself is ready for production AFAIK...

[flanker7]

The turret it's not new. It's the same used by the british AS-90 SPG. The hull however must be new.

[Uncle Sam]

That definitely looks like a heavy hitter !

[Falco]

good pics woot woot

[Russian Texan]

It looks very clean :)
Is it in service yet?
How many are deployed?
How many are required by the polish army?
Tech. specs?

[Marmot1]

Yep but as you know if you change hull you must change a lot more also electonics is modified and there is lot more changes done...

here is exampe of development of LOARA AA s-propeled

Loara during test... note tank hull :-)
http://www.pancerni.to2.pl/zestplot/loara1.jpg
http://www.pancerni.to2.pl/zestplot/loara-2.jpg
New Hull more comfortable larger ammo capacity etc...
http://www.pancerni.to2.pl/zestplot/loara.jpg
http://www.bulba.eu.org/mil/free/gp/loara.jpg
http://www.gildia.pl/strategie/wiesci/2003/loara/*w/400

[Marmot1]

Krab buring certification test...
http://www.gildia.pl/strategie/wiesci/2003/krab/*w/300

[OldRecon]

That Patria thing a licenced upgrade of the Patria APC made by Hägglund/Sisu? and no roof hatches?

[-Max2-]

http://www.gildia.pl/strategie/wiesci/2003/loara/*w/400

Looks like the German Gepard 35mm anti-aircraft tank...

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

It`s my first post on this forum, so hi everyone!
(i siemka dla wszystkich z Polski)

Krab`s characteristics:

Crew:5
Weight: 45-50t
Range: 30km stanadrd ammunition, 40-42km assisted ammunition
Ammo: 60 rounds on board, all standard 155 NATO rounds
Rate of fire:5 rounds per minute
Armament:
155mm/L52ERO Gun
0.50 NSW MG
Engine: S12U, 850HP
Armor: turret: 17mm, hull: 20mm.

The turret is British AS90/L52 turret made under license by HSW. The hull is Polish design, called Kalina. It`s also used in SUM minelayers. Also the FCS is made in Poland (version of "Topaz" used on 2S1 Gvozdika).

First battery will enter service in late 2005. The Polish Army needs about 100 Krabs.

Sorry for my bad English, I hope you can understand me :D

[wholagun]

witam na forum.

Why don't we put the Loarra on the Kalina hull? It look more confortable and better then the old PT 90 hull which is small and is getting old. I like the hull, when I first saw it I though it was German. **** I really want the Loara on the new hull very badly, old hull looks weak and Im sure its not as fast and ruged as the new hull.

Yeah the Loarra is based on the Gephard design, we just gave it a new hull and a new name thats all. Oh yeah I almost forogt we are upgrading our Loarra to Loarra A or B, the upgrade being that we are adding GROM anti aircraft missiles on the Loara as well. Grom missiles being something simualar to the US stinger, used to take out chopper or other low flying aircraft.

Polish guys keep the infro and post about new Polish equipment comming, its interesting to see a total modernization of an army. We are slowly becomming a force to be reconded with and will be able to do more abroad finally.

[wholagun]

holy **** the new hull is huge, the hull itself is almost as big as the PT 91 right next to it in the picture. Exactly what is the height of the hull?

http://www.bulba.eu.org/mil/free/gp/krab(3).jpg

So we are getting 100 Krabs in 2005 creating the first battery, but how many more Krabs do we need after 2005? How many batteries?

Also you guys got any pics of the SUM minelayer?

English is good. Don't worry half this forum is Polish, Im not kidding almost half the people on this forum have Polish roots.

[marktigger]

will you be using the same ammo as AS90?

Glad to see the AS90 getting exports

[mustamato]

http://www.gildia.pl/strategie/wiesci/2003/loara/*w/400

Looks like the German Gepard 35mm anti-aircraft tank...

And the finnish ItPsv 90 that uses british Marksman turrets,
Swiss 35 mm Oerlikons, finnish electronics and stuff, and of
course, the polish T-55M chassis :)

http://www.ilmatorjunta.fi/lohtaja/marksman_600.jpg

[Uninen]

Here for you all..

Some Patria AMV 8x8..

PATRIA AMV (ARMOURED MODULAR VEHICLE) 8X8 WHEELED , FINLAND:

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patria/images/patria1.jpg
"The Patria AMV 8x8 equipped with Oto Melara HITROLE 12.7mm turret."

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patria/images/patria2.jpg
"The AMV 8x8 equipped with Oto Melara 25mm Hitfist turret."

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patria/images/patria3.jpg
"The Patria AMV seen during swimming tests in summer 2002."

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patria/images/patria5.jpg
"The AMV 8x8 equipped with Oto Melara HITFIST turret fitted with the TOW anti-tank missile system."

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patria/images/patria6.jpg
"An AMV 8x8 was transported to Brno in the Czech Republic by C-130 aircraft."

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patria/images/patria7.jpg
"The Patria AMV 8x8 equipped with LAV 30mm turret."

http://www.bvv.cz/i2000/Akce/b-idet.nsf/0/CEE1809CB61978ED41256D150060C730/$File/PATRIA-S.JPG?OpenElementhttp://www.mod.gov.sk/e-ziny/armada/2002_12/pics/16.jpg
"AMV 8x8 APC with remote turret."

http://www.haggve.se/Images/high/AMOS_AMV8x8.jpg
"AMV 8x8 AMOS (2x120mm..)."

http://www.hrvatski-vojnik.hr/hrvatski-vojnik/932003/bpictures/HV-93=Mikulic=01.jpg

http://softland.com.pl/aerojac/amv8x8/patria.jpg

http://softland.com.pl/aerojac/amv8x8/amv8x81.jpg

http://softland.com.pl/aerojac/amv8x8/amv8x82.jpg

http://softland.com.pl/aerojac/amv8x8/amv8x83.jpg

http://www2.helsinginsanomat.fi/kuvat/uutiset/2003/02/03/20030203ie01i.jpg
"A Finnish-built Patria AMV armoured personnel carrier being tested in Sulejowek, near Warsaw, Poland, in May last year. The Polish Ministry of Defence announced in December that Patria won the tender for supplying armoured vehicles for the Polish Army."

AMV 8x8 APC with PML 127 OWS turret, weapon 12,7x108mm NSV HMG ->
http://www.********************/europe/Finlande/vehicules_a_roues/AMV_8x8/AMV_8x8_Finland_MSPO_2002_04.jpg

http://www.********************/europe/Finlande/vehicules_a_roues/AMV_8x8/AMV_8x8_Finland_MSPO_2002_08.jpg

Rest here! (http://www.********************/europe/Finlande/vehicules_a_roues/AMV_8x8/AMV_APC_Finlande_pictures.htm)

AMV 8x8 IFV with GDLS CTC LAV 30mm turret, weapon Bushmaster 30mm ATK MK 44 cannon ->
http://www.********************/europe/Finlande/vehicules_a_roues/AMV_8x8/AMV_IFV_8x8_DElco_Turret/AMV_IFV_Delco_Turret_Finland_01.jpg

http://www.********************/europe/Finlande/vehicules_a_roues/AMV_8x8/AMV_IFV_8x8_DElco_Turret/AMV_IFV_Delco_Turret_Finland_05.jpg

Rest here! (http://www.********************/europe/Finlande/vehicules_a_roues/AMV_8x8/AMV_IFV_8x8_DElco_Turret/AMV_IFV_Delco_Finlande_pictures.htm)

AMV 8x8 IFV with Oto Melara 25mm Hitfist turret ->
http://www.********************/europe/Finlande/vehicules_a_roues/AMV_8x8/AMV_IFV_8x8_OtoBreda_Turret/AMV_8x8_OtoBreda_Turret_Wheeled_Armoured_Vehicle_Finland_03.jpg

Rest here! (http://www.********************/europe/Finlande/vehicules_a_roues/AMV_8x8/AMV_IFV_8x8_OtoBreda_Turret/AMV_IFV_OtoBreda_Finlande_pictures.htm)

;)

And if you were wondering what it can stand:

The vehicle is fitted with modular ballistic protection to the customer specification up to a protection level against 30mm armour piercing APFSDS rounds.

Patrias official AMV 8x8 page (link) (http://www.patria.fi/modules/page/show_page.asp?id=C2814C7E3B8747BABE7CD96C4C120329&prt=CBD0FB31EEF5461E943353F4D3D5C7BA&frm=MENU_1&lid=A6262BB0242F4335A87D2DD3418441F5)

woot

[mustamato]

http://www.bvv.cz/i2000/Akce/b-idet.nsf/0/CEE1809CB61978ED41256D150060C730/$File/PATRIA-S.JPG?OpenElement

I wonder how much the gunner really sees of what´s happening around
the vehicle (in lets say during a ambush). But yeah, of course he has some
nice toys as well, night vision, thermal imager(?) and that NSVT :)

Hm, I wonder what kind of 40 mm grenade MG the finns will choose as well,
that one from Singapore or the one from H&K. But now that would be
fun to try to shoot, remotely controlled 40 mm grenade MG.

[HappyCat]

is that gun pictured on top of it a grenade launcher? it looks like a machine gun, but I know very little about them anyways.

[Uninen]

HappyCat,

PML 127 OWS turret, weapon 12,7 x 108mm NSV HMG.. ;)

[Marmot1]

LOARA
L OARA STRATEGIC PROGRAM FOR THE POLISH MOD

CNPEP RADWAR SA is a main contractor of the LOARA strategic program for the Polish MOD. Also other leading Polish military firms are involved in this program. The program provides for development and production of automated, self-propelled anti-aircraft systems for the needs of the Polish Armed Forces, as well as, for export. In the autumn of this year the artillery version of the LOARA anti-aircraft system was demonstrated and tested successfully, complying with required specifications. The works with the missile version of the LOARA anti-aircraft system are under way.
Below a general description of the artillery version of the LOARA anti-aircraft system can be found.



MISSION AND GENERAL DESCRIPTION
The LOARA integrated self-propelled antiaircraft gun system is designed for destroying attack aircraft (fixed wing aircraft, helicopters, UAVs, cruising missiles) flying at very low, low and medium altitudes.
Mounted on a modernised T-72 tank chassis, the armoured turret incorporates multiple modern sensors that enable to acquire and engage air targets flying at speeds of up to 500 m/sec. The two 35 mm guns, precisely controlled by a fire control computer, provide effective fire range in excess of 4000 m.





ADVANTAGES
Target detection on the move
Precise target indication from a 3D search radar
Data renewal time: 1 s
IFF equipment built in
Passive operation mode, with targets designated from an external source
The integrated tracking head includes
tracking radar (mm wave band)
FLIR camera
TV camera
high PRF laser range-finder
MODERN TECHNOLOGIES
Digital signal processors of the newest generation
Flat colour monitors
Modern, precise drive control of the turret and guns
FLIR camera of the newest generation
Intelligent ammunition (programmable fuse)

I have photos from test how those munnition work and it's awesome laser range finder give info to the computer, computer program ammunition in barrel and when it is shoot jut before target it fragments and hitls with small particles just like shootgun!!! I need to borrow scaner so I can scan this..






LA-3
Automated Command
and Control Vehicle
- UMBRELLA(sorry only command vehicle photo external and internal)
http://www.radwar.com.pl/pics/umbw.jpg
http://www.radwar.com.pl/pics/umbs.jpg

Designation and general characteristic
UMBRELLA Antiaircraft Artillery System is designed to combat air targets flying at low altitudes as well as light armoured ground and sea surface targets, either in day or night conditions, with sufficient visibility by a TV or thermal (FLIR) camera. Thanks to modern passive optoelectronic sensors and artillery fire control algorithms, comparatively early detection and effective fighting of targets are possible, with the number of crew and the quantity of used ammunition significantly decreased. The application of passive sensors for target detection makes the UMBRELLA system hard to be detected by the enemy, so the advantage of that effect can be used in battle-field operational activity.


System description
The UMBRELLA system consists of:
command vehicle

gun battery

electro-optical director unit

power generator

The command vehicle, named WD-95, is equipped with an electronic system ensuring target detection and tracking, gun battery control and inter-operation with the superior command post. Optoelectronic head (TV and FLIR cameras, laser range finder), with electric drive assuring all around movement in azimuth and a wide range of movement in elevation, is applied for detection and tracking of indicated targets. The current air situation and list of indicated targets are displayed in a graphical form on the monitors.
The vehicle is equipped with necessary communication means for voice communication and data transmission. A short range IFF system can be incorporated as an option. In the basic mode of operation the WD-95 receives data concerning the air situation from the superior command post or directly from a surveillance radar. If there is no radar information, the UMBRELLA system can work autonomously, i.e. detect targets and measure their angular co-ordinates using an electro-optical director unit coupled with the WD-95 vehicle.
The gun battery consists of four 57 mm guns type S-60 properly modified for automatic fire control from the WD-95. The guns are equipped with modern transistor drive control circuits and a microprocessor controller so their control process is possible from the WD-95 vehicle via digital data transmission lines. Each gun is controlled independently and individually aimed at the target, regarding the accurate gun location in the terrain, which has a fundamental influence on battery fire effectiveness. In emergency situation each gun can be controlled manually. The electro-optical director unit TZKM enables air space surveillance around the fire site. The TZKM can be used primarily in the autonomous mode of operation for searching and tracking targets, without their previous indication. Target angular co-ordinates are converted to a digital form and sent to the command vehicle WD-95 via a data transmission link. These input data are used to initiate target tracking with the optoelectronic head.
The power supply generator PAD-20 is a general-purpose supplying source for equipment used in field conditions. The generator is installed on two-wheeled trailer that is towed by the WD-95 vehicle.

Advantages of the UMBRELLA system:
surveillance of airspace, ground or sea surface without revealing own position
increase in artillery fire efficiency as a result of automatic and precise gun aiming
high mobility and combat readiness achieved in a short time
use of radar data from external sources or autonomous operation
reduced number of crew and the quantity of used ammunition



SUM-KALINA minelayer

http://www.pancerni.to2.pl/transpspecprz/sum-1.jpg
http://www.pancerni.to2.pl/transpspecprz/sum-2.jpg
http://www.pancerni.to2.pl/transpspecprz/sum.jpg
During tests...
http://graf.mech.pk.edu.pl/labor/pic/kom1.jpg

PTS-M
And this is old but interesting alternative to engineering bridge... ;-)
http://www.pancerni.to2.pl/transpspecprz/pts-m.jpg
http://www.pancerni.to2.pl/transpspecprz/romania-ptsm.jpg
http://www.pancerni.to2.pl/transpspecprz/uruguay-ptsm.jpg
Some pictures olb but hard to find new..
Capacity up to 10t or 72 soldiers!!! or truck with load... speed 50km/h land 10km/h water

WZT-3
engenering vehicle based on t-72
India MOD orderes ca.100 in poland this year so they would have like 150 now :-)

http://www.pancerni.to2.pl/transpspecprz/wzt-3-1.jpg
http://www.pancerni.to2.pl/transpspecprz/wzt-3-2.jpg
http://www.pancerni.to2.pl/transpspecprz/wzt3..jpg

And.... old but funny trench digger!!!
http://www.pancerni.to2.pl/transpspecprz/btm3-1.jpg

[Russian Texan]

Thanks for the info about "Krab", seems like a nice piece of hardware.

Now this thing
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patria/images/patria1.jpg
it definitely looks like an APC from the "Alien" movie :lol:
Are those HID lights? :)

[Uninen]

This 'thing' happens to be the best wheeled APC / IFV today, and for long in to the future.. :backhand:

(But not with that italian turret.. it was for trials only..)

[tony6]

Actually-India has just bought 228 pieces of these:
http://www.pancerni.to2.pl/transpspecprz/wzt-3-1.jpg
They bought about 80 2 years ago and they found it very reliable.

[Marmot1]

sorry i knew that they bought over 100 but didn't know that 226, better for our industry woot woot

BTW as far as I know they bought something more do you remember what?

[Marmot1]

Thanks for the info about "Krab", seems like a nice piece of hardware.

Now this thing
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patria/images/patria1.jpg
it definitely looks like an APC from the "Alien" movie :lol:
Are those HID lights? :)
Yeahh i like it too it looks better than stryker to me and it won competition with stryker/pirhania there should be hundreds of them in polish army in next couple of years :-) different variants... and they will be produced mainly in poland under licence :-) from what i seen there are small camers on back or sides of APC so the soldiers inside have full view of situation around on 2 digital panells inside he heh that's was most cool for me no more periscope just camera :-)

[Catch22]

Just a small update on some modern tracked army vehicles designed in Poland lately. There was a SUM minelaying mentioned several posts above. There'a also other such a field system named KROTON - developed since 1997 and finally entering service this year.

Link to ist producer's page - sadly only in polish but general technical data sholud be understandable to all. Generally system is mounted on MTLB APC chasis. http://www.cpw.hsw.pl/pdf/kroton.pdf

[tony6]

Like I said-they bought about 80 WZT-3 some two years ago and right now they're buyin' 228 pieces (plus some self-propelled bridges).

[wholagun]

witam catch 22

India is also buying bullets from us too.

[wholagun]

have they finally named the AMV yet? I remember Remov was saying that it had to be a preditory animal.

[Marmot1]

yep there is even a contest for a name in one of polish magazines...

1.Must be Predatory mammal.
2.excludning Ryś(Lynx) Żbik(Wildcat), Wilk(Wolf), Jaguar(Jaguar), Szakal(Jackal),Hiena(Hyena),Puma(puma) since those are currently used..

[lekomin]

This 'thing' happens to be the best wheeled APC / IFV today, and for long in to the future.. :backhand:

(But not with that italian turret.. it was for trials only..)
Poland is getting the Oto Melara turret with ATK's Mk44 30mm gun (Bushmaster II AFAIK) and dual Rafael Spike missile launchers. Thermal Imaging and all.. not bad for us I would say
take care
lekomin inc

[wholagun]

I remebering once reading and hearing about new Polish troop/supply transport ships. Unforunetly the link and pics are dead on the old thread but does anyone got those pics again and will the navy actually buy those transport ships and if they are how many?

[tony6]

Here You go-link to Polish new transport ship:
http://www.altair.com.pl/files/r1203_utl.htm
Right now it's only a project. If they decide to built it they will purchase 2-4 pieces (I would bet on 2:)

[Marmot1]

Here You go-link to Polish new transport ship:
http://www.altair.com.pl/files/r1203_utl.htm
Right now it's only a project. If they decide to built it they will purchase 2-4 pieces (I would bet on 2:)
I bet betwen 0 and 1 ... how much $ you bet? ;)

[wholagun]

Here You go-link to Polish new transport ship:
http://www.altair.com.pl/files/r1203_utl.htm
Right now it's only a project. If they decide to built it they will purchase 2-4 pieces (I would bet on 2:)

oh jezu artiku jest po Polsku. It will take one hour to read it.

Thanks for the info.

when will the navy make a decision? Why not get 2 now and 2 later. Its not like we need alot now we don't have alot of commitment abroad anyhow. But we may decide to use them to help out allies in NATO etc so we could get 2 ships now and 2 later.

wszystkimi systemami bojowymi kosztowałby 50-60 mln USD, a jego konstrukcja zajęłaby 3-4 lata so she's not cheap at 60 million USD, and the soonest we could get one is 2007-2008.

[LeMat]

Generally system is mounted on MTLB APC chasis.

Welcome Catch22.
If I remember correctly the Kroton is based on modernised MTLB chasis - it is longer (1 wheel more on each side).

[tony6]

It doesn't depend on the NAVY. The Chief of Staff and minister of defence - they had to make up their mind.
And one thing more-this ship is for Land Forces mainly, not for the NAVY:)
(I mean its purpose is to deliver land troops into the conflict area so chief of Land Forces has to decide wheter he is interested or not)

[wholagun]

It doesn't depend on the NAVY. The Chief of Staff and minister of defence - they had to make up their mind.
And one thing more-this ship is for Land Forces mainly, not for the NAVY:)
(I mean its purpose is to deliver land troops into the conflict area so chief of Land Forces has to decide wheter he is interested or not)

HMM yeah that makes sense, I just assumed navy cause Navy is water and army is land.
When is the chief of staff and minister of defense suppose to make the decesion. These are Polish built ships right, we're not buying foreign ships right.

[perdurabo]

and you must remembe that our budget is streched to max :]
Budget income: 150 000 000 000 PLN
Outcome 190 000 000 000 so hole in budget is 40 000 000 000 :( and if this hole increase to 60% of GNP next year has to be 0. so they will have to cut everything (we prey that thwy will finallyfight with this black hole)... So if they will build new ships prabably it will be proj.621 Gawron class Corvettes (like K130 or MAKO@100) and afther that they will see how things are :)

[Uninen]

Poland is getting the Oto Melara turret with ATK's Mk44 30mm gun (Bushmaster II AFAIK) and dual Rafael Spike missile launchers. Thermal Imaging and all.. not bad for us I would say
take care
lekomin inc

That weird looking remote turret? :)

[perdurabo]

no that wierd looking is PML-OWS something it's finnish/polish(polish mg) made, and oto melera is Hitfist series but espetilly made in lower weight and hight and not from steel but from aluminium or something like that.

[Uninen]

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patria/images/patria1.jpg
The Patria AMV 8x8 equipped with Oto Melara HITROLE 12.7mm turret.

:roll: That was the turret i was talking about.. and that "Patria PML 127 OWS turret" is i think finnish design.. ;) and uses 12,7 x 108mm NSV HMG.. :)

http://www.********************/europe/Finlande/vehicules_a_roues/AMV_8x8/AMV_8x8_Finland_MSPO_2002_08.jpg
AMV 8 x 8 APC with Patria PML 127 OWS turret. (which looks like most reote turrets do..)

[perdurabo]

In polish wersion it will have polish MG and few other things diffrent that finish one.

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

In polish wersion it will have polish MG and few other things diffrent that finish one.

The same NSV but Made in Poland :D

[Uninen]

In polish wersion it will have polish MG and few other things diffrent that finish one.

The same NSV but Made in Poland :D

Way to go! ;)

[Musashi]

http://www.gildia.pl/strategie/wiesci/2003/loara/*w/400

Looks like the German Gepard 35mm anti-aircraft tank...

And the finnish ItPsv 90 that uses british Marksman turrets,
Swiss 35 mm Oerlikons, finnish electronics and stuff, and of
course, the polish T-55M chassis :)

http://www.ilmatorjunta.fi/lohtaja/marksman_600.jpg
"Loara" has Polish T-72M chassis, 2x35mm Oerlikon guns (Polish-made), and French/Polish electonics. The rocket version of this system will have South African "Umkhonto" rockets.

[Mikkel]

http://www.gildia.pl/strategie/wiesci/2003/loara/*w/400

Looks like the German Gepard 35mm anti-aircraft tank...

And the finnish ItPsv 90 that uses british Marksman turrets,
Swiss 35 mm Oerlikons, finnish electronics and stuff, and of
course, the polish T-55M chassis :)

http://www.ilmatorjunta.fi/lohtaja/marksman_600.jpg

And the Dutch PRTL Cheetah, which is an adapted version of the KMW Gepard.

http://www.kmweg.de/img/gepard01.jpg