PDA

View Full Version : Who's your favourite historical figure?



U-S-S-R
12-02-2005, 11:39 AM
I guess it would be nice if he had something to do with military or politics. Mine would be Bogdan Hmelnitskii, the founder of Ukraine and a great cossak.

Some background info on Bogdan -->

Biography

Khmelnytsky was probably born in Chyhyryn, in Ukraine; it is unclear whether to a family of Ruthenian nobility or to Polish nobility of Abdank Coat of Arms who had immigrated to Ukraine from Masovia. Khmelnytsky was educated by the Jesuits in Lviv. Unlike many of their other pupils, he did not embrace Roman Catholicism but early in life became indifferent to the faith. Later he seemed to belong to the Greek Orthodox faith, to which most of the Cossacks and the Ruthenian peasants belonged. He had two sons - Yuriy and Tymofiy (Tymish). He was deprived of his estate of Subotiv by Daniel Czapliński, the bailiff of Chyhyryn. At this time he was still in the subordinate position of a "sotski" (an officer over a sotnia, or hundred cavalrymen) of the Registered Cossacks, subject to the Polish magnate Stanisław Koniecpolski. With Koniecpolski he took part in the disaterious Battle of Cecora in 1620. Czapliński availed himself of Khmelnytsky's absence to raid the estate, during which Khmelnytsky's young son Yuriy received injuries from which he ultimately died, and Khmelnytsky's second wife was carried off.


Cossack leader

Being among Czyhrynian and Zaporozhian Cossacks, he was fighting against Turks and Tatars in 1625- 1630. He participated the rebellions of Cossacks in 1632 and 1637. In October 1645 he was invited to France by Cardinal Jules Mazarin with 2 regiments of Cossacks to participate in the war against Spain. Due to his military skills Dunkirk was taken by assault within 2 days.

--

He is famous for his uprising against the exploiters of Ukraine.

--

The Uprising


" Bohdan Chmielnicki with Tugay Bey (Tuhaj Bej) at Lwów", oil on canvas by Jan Matejko, 1885, National Museum in Warsaw. Chmielnicki Uprising 1648-1654

For centuries after the creation of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, the Orthodox people of Ruthenia had felt oppressed by the Polish nobles, Catholic priests and Jewish traders. Although Ruthenian nobility enjoyed full rights, they were quickly polonized and therefore were alienated from the common people; the advent of the Counter-Reformation worsened the relationship between the Orthodox and Catholic churches. Unwilling to attend to the details of administration themselves, Polish magnates made Jewish traders their go-betweens in transactions with the peasants of Ukraine. The magnates sold and leased certain privileges to the Jews for a lump sum and, while enjoying themselves at their courts, left it to the Jewish leaseholders and collectors to become objects of hatred to the oppressed and long-suffering peasants. Although Khmelnytsky's personal resentment influenced his ultimate decision to rid Ukraine of Polish domination, it seems that his ambition to secure the Nobles' privileges and the Cossacks' independance, was the main motive that led him to instigate an uprising of the Ruthenian people against them, known after him as the Chmielnicki Uprising.

Khmelnytsky told the people that the Poles had sold them as slaves "into the hands of the accursed Jews". With this as their battle-cry, the Cossacks killed a large number of Jews during the years 1648–1649. The precise number of dead may never be known, but the decrease of the Jewish population during that period is estimated at 50,000 to 200,000, which also includes deaths from diseases and Tatar imprisonment.

These events also initiated a series of campaigns (which began the period in Polish history known as The Deluge) that temporarily freed Ukraine from Polish domination but in time subjected it to Russian domination. Successes at Zhovti Vody, Battle of Korsun and Battle of Pilavtsi (respectively, in Polish, Żółte Wody, Korsuń, and Piławce) against Hetman Mikołaj Potocki led to the Polish king giving royal recognition for the contentious privileges under the Treaty of Zborov. Hostilities resumed when the Sejm refused to recognise the provisions of the treaty. After Khmelnytsky's forces were betrayed by their former allies, the Tatars, they suffered a massive defeat in 1651 at the Battle of Beresteczko, and were forced at Bila Tserkva to accept a loser's treaty. A year later, the Cossacks had their revenge at the Battle of Batoh. Ukraine was still perilously weak, and in 1654 Khmelnytsky persuaded the Cossacks to ally with the Russian tsar in the Treaty of Pereyaslav, which eventually led to the incorporation of the Left-bank Ukraine into Russia.

---

Interesting note: Bogdan, his name, actually means 'Given by God'. A true gift from God he was.

What would your be?

ed316
12-02-2005, 11:43 AM
John Brown on his way to his execution

John Brown was a man of action -- a man who would not be deterred from his mission of abolishing slavery. On October 16, 1859, he led 21 men on a raid of the federal arsenal at Harpers Ferry, Virginia. His plan to arm slaves with the weapons he and his men seized from the arsenal was thwarted, however, by local farmers, militiamen, and Marines led by Robert E. Lee. Within 36 hours of the attack, most of Brown's men had been killed or captured.

John Brown was born into a deeply religious family in Torrington, Connecticut, in 1800. Led by a father who was vehemently opposed to slavery, the family moved to northern Ohio when John was five, to a district that would become known for its antislavery views

Brown was wounded and quickly captured, and moved to Charlestown, Virginia, where he was tried and convicted of treason, Before hearing his sentence, Brown was allowed make an address to the court.




. . . I believe to have interfered as I have done, . . . in behalf of His despised poor, was not wrong, but right. Now, if it be deemed necessary that I should forfeit my life for the furtherance of the ends of justice, and mingle my blood further with the blood of my children, and with the blood of millions in this slave country whose rights are disregarded by wicked, cruel, and unjust enactments, I submit: so let it be done

duck
12-02-2005, 11:51 AM
Korean admiral Yi Sun-Shin: His life was one big hardship but in the process he wrecked the Japanese Navy at will

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_Sun_Shin

eucalyptus
12-02-2005, 11:51 AM
Marshall Josip Broz Tito

Liberator from Germans and uniter of Yugoslavia

Benny
12-02-2005, 12:55 PM
Fernăo Mendes Pinto - Where adventure, legend, myth and reality join in a unique way!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fern%C3%A3o_Mendes_Pinto

Benny

Count Lippe
12-02-2005, 12:58 PM
Arminius or Hermann

Son of a Cherusker chief, learned the art of war as a Roman officer and leader of Germanic auxiliary troops who defeated more than 3 Roman legions underPublius Quintilus Varus in a 3 days battle after a guerilla style ambush in 9 A. D.

California Joe
12-02-2005, 03:22 PM
Too many to name really.

One that springs to mind is General George Rogers Clark.

http://www.cismall.com/clark.html

Violence Of Action
12-02-2005, 03:28 PM
Xenophon and Leonidas

Violence Of Action
12-02-2005, 03:29 PM
and julian the apostate

ironcross6
12-02-2005, 03:39 PM
William Tecumseh Sherman

unlike Robert E. Lee who guessed wrongly that southern fighting spirit would carry the day Sherman guessed right that bringing the war to bear on the slave owning plantation class would destroy the will to resist that 600,000 dead had not.

his march to the sea was brilliant, he killed few, lost almost none, destroyed supplies destined for the army of nothern virginia, burned property of those supporting the war effort, and freed tens of thousands of slaves. all this cracked the confederacy and ended the most destructive war in american history.

to top it all off he had the greatest statement ever on generals entering politics: "i wont run if asked and wont serve if elected"

you here me wesley clark?

Kitsune
12-03-2005, 12:04 AM
For me it's Alexander von Humboldt.
Incredible intellect and insatiable curiosity, amazing bravery and astonishing achievements. And all this coupled with a true humanitarian attitude.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_von_Humboldt

Para
12-03-2005, 07:52 AM
Churchill.....Will take a lot of beating, Soldier, Statesman, Artist, Writer

2RHPZ
12-03-2005, 07:57 AM
Emperor Carl IV. and Ronald Reagan.

achilles
12-03-2005, 10:30 AM
Leonidas, Miltiadis, Perikles, Lykourgos, Eleftherios Venizelos, Phillip II, Alexander the Makedon...

Count Lippe
12-03-2005, 11:09 AM
Leonidas, Miltiadis, Perikles, Lykourgos, Eleftherios Venizelos, Phillip II, Alexander the Makedon...

I hope you are aware of the fact that he's most likely just a myth made up by the great Spartan propaganda. There is no real evidence of his existance, only antique texts which aren't really trustworthy anyway.... ;)

achilles
12-04-2005, 08:14 AM
I hope you are aware of the fact that he's most likely just a myth made up by the great Spartan propaganda. There is no real evidence of his existance, only antique texts which aren't really trustworthy anyway.... ;)

What i am aware of is the POSSIBILITY that he was not an actual historical figure. From what i know, though, one legendery law maker most likely EXISTED in Sparta, irrespective of how true the related descriptions are.

So your assertion that "he is most likely just a myth" is not really accurate, at least the way i see it. Plus, Lykourgos is referrenced by ancient historians like Herodotus, Xenophon and Plutarch.

I can agree that Herodotus had a distinct tendency to mix personal interpretation, intuition with facts and myth, yet he is still righteously considered the father of historiography. Xenophon and Plutarch adopted a more 'scientific' approach in recording history, so i cannot really call any of the above as "not really trustworthy antique texts".

But yes, all in all, Lykourgos COULD have been a myth, but he most likely existed and not the other way around.

Keep also in mind that the generall tendency in the ancient Greek literature, fictitious or not, was to depict actual persons as mythological, rather than the opposite. There is good evidence that Iasonas and the Argonauts as well as Herakles and Achilles (huh!) were real persons to whom mythological traits were attributed. But of course nonone can be sure given what we currently know.

achilles
12-04-2005, 08:19 AM
...(continued)

...Napoleon Bonaparte, Charlemagne, Roman Emperor Karakalla, Constantinos Palaiologos, Vasilleios Porfyrogennitos....

(to be continued)

Yosy
12-04-2005, 10:19 AM
Fernăo Mendes Pinto - Where adventure, legend, myth and reality join in a unique way!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fern%C3%A3o_Mendes_Pinto

Benny

Defenetly a good choice. His book shows his no-nonsense approach to his remarkable life.

Also in the list should be Charles De Gaulle, La Fayette, Willy Brandt and Patrice Lumumba.

Above all - Casanova (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giacomo_Casanova) p-)

Leonidas is a great choice too - The persians: "surrender your weapons"; Leonidas: "come and get them".

a non-spartan greek: "the persians have so many bowmen that, when they fire, the arrows block out the sun"; a spartan soldier: "great, we will fight in the shade".

Now that's old-school bad-ass

Lokos
12-04-2005, 10:28 AM
Marko Kraljevic. p-)

Lokos

Bryson C
12-04-2005, 12:23 PM
Napoleon Bonaparte, Winston Churchill, FDR.

Count Lippe
12-04-2005, 01:30 PM
What i am aware of is the POSSIBILITY that he was not an actual historical figure. From what i know, though, one legendery law maker most likely EXISTED in Sparta, irrespective of how true the related descriptions are.

So your assertion that "he is most likely just a myth" is not really accurate, at least the way i see it. Plus, Lykourgos is referrenced by ancient historians like Herodotus, Xenophon and Plutarch.

I can agree that Herodotus had a distinct tendency to mix personal interpretation, intuition with facts and myth, yet he is still righteously considered the father of historiography. Xenophon and Plutarch adopted a more 'scientific' approach in recording history, so i cannot really call any of the above as "not really trustworthy antique texts".

But yes, all in all, Lykourgos COULD have been a myth, but he most likely existed and not the other way around.

Keep also in mind that the generall tendency in the ancient Greek literature, fictitious or not, was to depict actual persons as mythological, rather than the opposite. There is good evidence that Iasonas and the Argonauts as well as Herakles and Achilles (huh!) were real persons to whom mythological traits were attributed. But of course nonone can be sure given what we currently know.
Thats the answer i expected, from a Turk-battle hardened Hellenic warrior...p-)

4nzix
12-04-2005, 08:30 PM
Marshall Josip Broz Tito

Liberator from Germans and uniter of Yugoslavia


What a ****ing loser........you know you'd probably get you ass kicked through like 98% of ex-Yu....

hehehhehehe

eucalyptus
12-04-2005, 09:16 PM
Grow some pubes before making comments like that. You hate him because he defeated the Chetniks, dude get over it already.

ironcross6
12-04-2005, 09:37 PM
bismark united germany, it is still together

looks like your boy Broz Tito didnt quite get it done judgeing from the fine state of human affairs there.

PS: yugoslavia is already refered to as "the former yugosalvia" for like the last 10 years. clue in.

Sayeret
12-05-2005, 12:50 AM
William Ewart Fairbairn



and

Mordecai Anielewicz



http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Anielevich.html

Bob Lawbla
12-05-2005, 12:56 AM
Ronald Wilson Reagan

Lokinator
12-05-2005, 06:04 PM
...(continued)

...Napoleon Bonaparte, Charlemagne, Roman Emperor Karakalla, Constantinos Palaiologos, Vasilleios Porfyrogennitos....

(to be continued)

You probably don't know much about history to quote french " historical figure "

Atlantic Friend
12-06-2005, 06:05 AM
Winston Churchill, Charles de Gaulle...

Crassus
12-06-2005, 06:42 AM
Marcus Crassusp-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Crassus

achilles
12-06-2005, 07:05 AM
You probably don't know much about history to quote french " historical figure "

as i dont know much about history, i will trust the historical expertise of a guy having George Bush for an avatar. :lol:

foxtrot023
12-06-2005, 09:45 AM
You probably don't know much about history to quote french " historical figure "

You have no idea how unintentionally funny your post is!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

ps. specially in regards to your knowledge on history

achilles
12-06-2005, 10:33 AM
You have no idea how unintentionally funny your post is!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

ps. specially in regards to your knowledge on history

Judging from his avatar, he sure knows how to distinguish great leaders.

Count Lippe
12-06-2005, 12:54 PM
Judging from his avatar, he sure knows how to distinguish great leaders.
Just like those guys picking Reagan.:)

gaijinsamurai
12-06-2005, 05:31 PM
Toyotomi Hideoshi. He was from a peasant family but through his intellect and military skill, rose to be the most powerful Samurai in Japan.
Winston Churchill. Took part in the charge at Omdurman, saw action on India´s NW Frontier, captured by and escaped from the Boers, and went on to be arguably the greatest political leader of WWII.
Chesty Puller. As a former Marine, it would be a sin to leave him out!

achilles
12-07-2005, 08:06 AM
Just like those guys picking Reagan.:)

Reagan? The handsome guy who was a better actor than politician? p-)

Count Lippe
12-07-2005, 09:36 AM
Reagan? The handsome guy who was a better actor than politician? p-)
Dude, Don't forget that he had some 1337 political skillz! He held his visage into the cameras, smiled, said the 4 magic words; "Tear down this wall!" and singlehandedly reunited Austria!!!rofl

hughdotoh
12-07-2005, 10:27 PM
Tokugawa Ieyasu
Cao Cao of the Three Kingdoms
Zhu Yuanzhang, founder of the Ming Dynasty
Chin ShiHuangDi, the first Chinese emperor
William Jardine
Thomas Stamford Raffles