The Marine MEU(SOC) M1911 in Iraq

[Uncle Sam]

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v56/deathdot/1911_in_Iraq.jpg


The Marine MEU(SOC) M1911 in Iraq
Notice that the pistol is not jammed with sand, the operator has not been taken prisoner and the smiling newly liberated locals are obeying commands. The pistol is loaded with 230g FMJ ammunition running at 830 fps. Not bad for a 92-year-old relic

Primary function: Modified .45 caliber pistol
Builder: Specially trained armorers at the Rifle Team Equipment (RTE) Shop, MCB Quantico, Virginia
Length: 8.625 inches (21.91 centimeters)
Length of barrel: 5.03 inches (12.78 centimeters)
Weight:
Magazine empty: 2.5 pounds (1.14 kilograms)
Magazine loaded: 3.0 pounds (1.36 kilograms)
Bore diameter: .45 caliber
Maximum effective range: 164 feet (50 meters) for specially-trained user
Muzzle velocity: 830 feet/252 meters/second
Magazine capacity: 7 rounds
Unit Replacement Cost: $600

Features: This weapon is a modified M1911A1 .45 caliber pistol sometimes referred to as "near match" or "combat accuratized." The MEU(SOC) Pistol is the designated "backup weapon" of Marines armed with the 9mm MP5-N Close Quarters Battle weapon.

The M1911A1 was chosen for this role (and its modifications generated) because of its inherent reliability and lethality, and because the MEU(SOC) modifications make the M1911A1 design more "user friendly."

The unique characteristics of the MEU(SOC) pistol are: commercial/competition grade ambidextrous safety, precision barrel, precise trigger, and rubber coated grips, rounded hammer spur, high profile combat sights, and an extra-wide grip safety for increased comfort and controllability (which aids in a quick follow-up second shot). The issue magazines are replaced with stainless steel competition-grade magazines with rounded plastic follower and extended floor plate.

Description of Modifications: "The MEU(SOC) pistol starts out as a stripped government contract M1911A1 frame, as manufactured up until 1945 or so. The frame is inspected, and the feed ramp polished and throated. The entire weapon is dehorned.

All internal parts are replaced with current commercial items. King's Gun Works supplies the beaver-tail grip safety and an ambidextrous thumb safety. This last piece is often thought of as a superfluous device, added on as a derigueur item on hordes of IPSC pistols.

Here it has some usefulness. The pistol must fit any operator in the platoon, whether he is right or "wrong" hand dominant. Future rebuild pistols will have a "memory bump" on the grip safety. Currently, many operators are unable to depress the grip safety when having their thumb (properly) on top of the thumb safety.

Some, understanding that your priority safety rests between your ears, have taped this useless grip "safety" closed. This is now forbidden, and will continue to present problems until the rebuild pistols are brought on line. Videcki aluminum Match triggers are installed, and tuned to a pull of between 4-5 pounds. Colt Commander hammers replace the standard spur hammer.

Slides are commercial contract. Initially, one vendor supplied all of the slides, but after the initial purchase problems developed. Caspian and Springfield Inc. currently supply all of the slides. The new rebuilds will have forward slide serrations to enhance chambered round verification (the oh so important press check).

Barrels are provided by Bar-Sto. The barrel bushings are form King's Gun Works. The front sight is also form King's Gun Works and is staked on. While many have shunned this method of front sight installation, preferring instead to dovetail it in, the Marine Corps has apparently got this procedure down right. I cannot ever recall seeing a front sight come off of the pistol.

The high profile rear sight is custom made at the RTE shop. This is an excellent unit, providing a good sight picture. It is secured to the slide by a hex head screw. The ejection port is lowered and scalloped to improve ejection. A fiber recoil buffer is installed. This controversial device is both cursed and praised.

There is no doubt that the buffer absorbs some of the battering, but they do deteriorate, and debris can insinuate itself into the nether regions of the pistol. This does no appear to be a problem in the Marine Corps, as weapons maintenance takes on almost religious proportions.

Flat mainspring housings are used, and as these are working guns, a lanyard loop is added. The lanyard themselves are made by the operators. A commercial telephone cord, the snap hook from an issue lanyard, and cable ties work out nicely.

Pachmayer rubber grip panels finish out the package. Once used on a lot of 1911's, these are now considered to be somewhat Jurassic by some operators. There is no checkering on the MEU(SOC) pistol.

This may be contrary to the exhortations of legions of pistolsmiths, writers, and wannabe commandos who insist that without such checkering the pistol will just slide and jump around in one's hand when they are wet, bloody, etc." -- Patrick A. Rogers, Tactical Shooter Magazine, June 1999

Inventory: 500

Background: The weapon modifications were designed in 1986 to meet the requirements of the MEU(SOC). Each pistol is hand-built by specially trained armorers at the Rifle Team Equipment (RTE) shop, Quantico, Virginia.

Some MEU's still carry proven M1911 .45's - Not everyone in the U.S. military carries Beretta’s M-9 9 mm handgun. A small group of Marines still carry .45-caliber pistols — but they’re a far cry from Grandpa’s World War II gun.

[Operation Ivy]

Yea i saw something on another forum saying they might bring back the 1911 woot

[MolliG]

*Drools... Drools again... Again...* :D

My 'favourite' pistol. Would love to actually handle one and even fire it :)... Will never happen though :(.

*Right-Click, Save Picture As...*

:lol:

[George W. Bush]

/me cradles his 1911

[MolliG]

/Cradles Tokyo Marui M1911A1... Prays for a Western Arms M1911A1...

;)

[fantassin]

Well, the real users are apparently not all that fond of the MEU (SOC) pistol....

[quoteFrom: 2nd Platoon 1st Force Reconnaissance Company, 15th MEU (SOC)

To: Commanding Officer, 1st Force Reconnaissance Company



SUBJ: WEAPONS AND EQUIPMENT AFTER ACTION REPORT


1. The following after action report will discuss the arms and equipment issued to 2nd Plt., cover the good and bad points of each piece of gear and describe how each was used by the Plt. Learning points discovered during the course of 2nd Plt’s work up and deployment will also be discussed. The after action comments are broken down into the following sections:

(A) Weapons

(B) Optics

(C) Communications

(D) Equipment

(E) Equipment deficiencies





A. WEAPONS



4. MEU (SOC) .45- These weapons are notorious for stoppages caused by broken parts. The following replacement parts are essential for deploying Plt. armorer: buffer pads, spring guide rods, barrel bushings, springs, extractors, firing pins, firing pin springs, firing pin stop plates. The 15th MEU did not have an armorer qualified to work on our pistols. With these parts generally any problem that arose with the pistols could be fixed. The most likely problem that cannot be repaired by the Plt. armorer is broken barrel-locking lugs. This problem is caused in part by use of the hot TZZ ammunition and the fact that the slide lock pin used with the Sure-Fire light it not custom fit to the weapon. This creates play in the pin and places excessive strain on the barrel-locking lug.

Replacement of the buffer pad about every 300 rounds also significantly reduces wear on the extractors and spring/guide assembly. This prevents many of the malfunctions from occurring. Locktight on the rear sights was helpful as the adjustable rear sight has a tendency to vibrate itself loose. In the past we have sent Marines to LAPD SWAT to work with the armomers and learn how to repair common problems. We coated the front sight with a high visibility orange paint marker. This seemed to speed up sight acquisition especially during low visibility.

[Uncle Sam]

Well, the real users are apparently not all that fond of the MEU (SOC) pistol....

[quoteFrom: 2nd Platoon 1st Force Reconnaissance Company, 15th MEU (SOC)

To: Commanding Officer, 1st Force Reconnaissance Company



SUBJ: WEAPONS AND EQUIPMENT AFTER ACTION REPORT


1. The following after action report will discuss the arms and equipment issued to 2nd Plt., cover the good and bad points of each piece of gear and describe how each was used by the Plt. Learning points discovered during the course of 2nd Plt’s work up and deployment will also be discussed. The after action comments are broken down into the following sections:

(A) Weapons

(B) Optics

(C) Communications

(D) Equipment

(E) Equipment deficiencies





A. WEAPONS



4. MEU (SOC) .45- These weapons are notorious for stoppages caused by broken parts. The following replacement parts are essential for deploying Plt. armorer: buffer pads, spring guide rods, barrel bushings, springs, extractors, firing pins, firing pin springs, firing pin stop plates. The 15th MEU did not have an armorer qualified to work on our pistols. With these parts generally any problem that arose with the pistols could be fixed. The most likely problem that cannot be repaired by the Plt. armorer is broken barrel-locking lugs. This problem is caused in part by use of the hot TZZ ammunition and the fact that the slide lock pin used with the Sure-Fire light it not custom fit to the weapon. This creates play in the pin and places excessive strain on the barrel-locking lug.

Replacement of the buffer pad about every 300 rounds also significantly reduces wear on the extractors and spring/guide assembly. This prevents many of the malfunctions from occurring. Locktight on the rear sights was helpful as the adjustable rear sight has a tendency to vibrate itself loose. In the past we have sent Marines to LAPD SWAT to work with the armomers and learn how to repair common problems. We coated the front sight with a high visibility orange paint marker. This seemed to speed up sight acquisition especially during low visibility.

No one said it was the "perfect" gun...

[thatguy96]

The USMC issued a request for private improvement of the MEU(SOC) pistol. I'm pretty sure the contract was aimed primarily at Wilson Combat, but there has definitly been some question of the pistol's performance. I mean, the gun's these MEU(SOC)'s were based off of could be anywhere from 40 to 60 years old now, if they're giving trouble now, I don't think I'd be surprised or concerned. Just means certain things just need to be replaced...with the next breed of MEU(SOC) pistol (which, seeing as the requirement said it had to be backward compatible with mags and accessories from the previous ones, will probably be another 1911 pattern weapon).

[Dennis G]

yeah its a great pistol

[obd]

yes the Wilson combat is very very good. Persnally however, I have had my eye on a Kimber custom 1911. Those are the best 1911's money can buy IMO. Im even thinking of selling my SAR and buying a Kimber .45!!! Anyone want to buy?

[Ratamacue]

To my knowledge, USMC DET-1 is adopting a Kimber 1911 as their sidearm.

[thatguy96]

Yeah, I realized that I had remembered it wrong after I wrote it, it is Kimber not Wilson Combat (not that Wilson Combat isn't good, but Kimber is definitly the standard).

From Federal Business Opportunities

SPECIAL NOTICE

Notice Date
5/2/2003

Description
Under the authority of FAR 13.501, the U.S. Army Robert Morris Acquisition Center, Natick Contracting Division, Kansas Street, Natick, MA on behalf of the United States Army Soldier System Center, Natick, MA intends to negotiate and award a purchase order on a sole source basis with Kimber America, 2590 Highway 35, Suite B, Kalispell, MT 59901.

This effort is to provide the Government with the 86 each of the Kimber MCP-1, 45 Caliber Pistol. The MCP-1 will ensure interoperability and ammunition continuity between operational elements of the users and other units.

Dunno where this was taken from, but the request was issued directly from MARCORSYSCOM.

The Marine Corps Systems Command (MARCORSYSCOM) Quantico, VA, is seeking information concerning Caliber .45 ACP Single Action, Semiautomatic Combat Pistols.

The purpose of this Request For Information (RFI) is to invite vendors of this product to submit profiles of their products to MARCORSYSCOM for consideration prior to the issuance of any solicitation. Vendor's product profiles should, to the maximum extent practicable, reflect the capabilities of the product and the vendor's ability to meet the Marine Corps requirements.

Requirements of this pistol are as follows:

Safety Assessment Report: Each offeror will supply a detailed Safety Assessment Report (SAR) for the weapon. The SAR shall be a thorough safety and hazard assessment. The SAR should comply with Military Standard 882D.

The offeror should provide in their submission the following: testing that has been completed, 30,000 round Life Cycle Cost Analyses, maintenance requirements, weapon unit cost, repair parts cost. Manufacturing capability should also be address, in terms of numbers of weapons that can be produced in a month.

Manuals: Each offeror will provide an operator and maintenance manual. Manual should clearly and fully explain the operation, field-stripping and maintenance required.

Weapon Magazine: Each Combat Pistol will be provided with two new magazines.

Estimated Quantity: The Marine Corps may procure up to 750 weapons. MARCORSYSCOM is interested in firms who can begin making deliveries of proposed weapons in a timely fashion. All items proposed MUST BE available at the time of submission of the Request for Proposals (RFP).

Estimated TimeLine: It is anticipated that the RFP will be released on 1 March 2003 with fielding of the new pistol NLT 25 August 2003.

Requirement Description: All machine finishes shall be in accordance with best commercial practice. In the event of a dispute over the comparison of finishes of the inspection standards and the production items, referee comparison shall be in accordance with ANSI B46.1.

The handgun shall, as a threshold requirement, use standard DoD lubricants and use existing U.S. Government operator and maintainer's tool sets. No new tools, gauges shall be required. As an objective requirement, the handgun shall be capable of being reconfigured, without the use of any special tools. The longer configuration shall utilize a barrel design for a silencer as a modular component. When in the longer configuration, the handgun must still be capable of function firing ammunition as defined in paragraph Ammunition Compatibility/Functioning.

Weight: The threshold weight of the unloaded handgun shall not exceed 3 pounds (2 pounds is the objective weight). Handgun uses a detachable box magazine; the weight of the handgun will exclude the weight of the empty magazine.

Receiver: The receiver shall provide checkered back strap and front strap, lanyard loop, beveled magazine well to assist in rapid reloading and extended standard diameter magazine release button.

Slide: The slide, as a threshold requirement, will provide serrated area at muzzle and rear.

Length: The maximum overall length of the handgun will not exceed 21.26 cm (8.37 inches).

Grip Safety: If the weapon has a grip safety, a high beavertail grip safety with a raised pad with a groove lower end should be provided.

Magazine: The handgun will, as a threshold requirement, use a standard M1911A1 magazine loading system with a capacity of seven (threshold) cartridges. It is desired (objective) that the handgun use a capacity of eight cartridges and shall be able to accommodate all handgun cartridges specified in Ammunition Compatibility/Functioning.

Grip: The handgun shall, as a threshold requirement, use a non-skid, wrap around grip that incorporates front strap checkering, semi-soft neoprene rubber compound and flat sides. The grip will not provide thumb rest, cutaways or wrap-around finger grooves.

Mounting Interface: The handgun, as a threshold requirement, will be provided with a standard universal U.S. Military mounting rail, parallel to the center of the barrel bore, and integral to the receiver and capable of mounting fielded and future items. MIL-STD-1913 shall be used for guidance.

Sight: The handgun, as a threshold requirement, shall be equipped with iron sights. High visibility three dot day/night sights. The rear sight shall be adjustable in windage only. Sight factory set for impact center mass at 22.85 meters (25 yards), 50 meter (54.7 yards) objective with U.S. Government, NATO and SAAMI caliber 45 ammunition.

Safety: The handgun, as a threshold requirement, shall have a safety device detente in both the 'safe' and 'fire' position. When in the safe position, the safety shall prevent the weapon from firing. The shooter shall be able to verify the position of the safety by both sight and touch. It shall be moveable from the safe into the fire position by the operator without moving his hands from the shooting position (****e, standing, kneeling, sitting). It shall remain in the position the operator sets it until it is manually changed. The safety shall require force of between three (3) and ten (10) pounds to operate. The safety, as a threshold, will provide ambidextrous extended thumb operation.

Barrel: The barrel will be free of cracks and seams. The chromium plating shall be free of nodules, flaking, pits, stripping, anode burns, and evidence of etched base steel. There shall be no machining, such as honing or grinding, after application of the chromium plating. Burs and sharp edges shall be removed from chamber edges and scratches or marks, occurring in a chamber that otherwise meets the surface toughness requirements shall be permitted provided they do not cause marks on the case of a high-pressure test cartridge fired in the chamber. The barrel shall be so fabricated that when the pistol is completely assembled, the requirements for targeting and accuracy hereinafter prescribed shall be met.

Unloading: The handgun, as a threshold requirement, shall permit unloading of live ammunition from the chamber without firing the weapon. This must be able to be performed in a safe manner.

Method of Operation: The handgun will employ a semiautomatic mode of operation to cycle the action during normal firing. The action will operate without interruption throughout its full travel. The action will also be capable of manual cycling using the slide. If the design of the weapon uses an aluminum receiver, the bolt will lock directly to the barrel, barrel extension or slide. The operating mechanism will include a locking device to hold the bolt/slide in its rearmost position after the last round is fired or when the slide is manually moved to its rearmost position. When manually clearing the handgun of live rounds, the operator may actuate a control device (i.e., button, lever, etc.) to activate the locking device to hold the bolt/slide in its rearmost position. However, when firing the weapon, the locking device shall automatically lock the bolt/slide open in its rearmost position when the last round has been fired. The lock shall be manually operable to allow the bolt/slide to return to and lock in the battery position. The action, when operated semi-automatically or manually, will reliably feed and chamber ammunition types as specified in Ammunition Compatibility/Functioning regardless of weapon attitude (top up, top down, right side down, left side down, butt end down, butt end up). The handgun will allow for ambidextrous firing.

Exterior Surfaces: All exposed exterior surfaces shall be dull and non-reflective. The objective colors are gray, black, brown, or green.

Marking: Each handgun will have an individual serial number assigned by the contractor. Serial numbers, along with the designation 'U.S.' will be permanently applied to the receiver in accordance with commercial practice. Handgun barrels will be marked to show caliber, completion of proof testing and magnetic particle inspection. MIL-STD-130. Identification Marking of U.S. Military Property shall be used.

Performance Envelope: The handgun, in its standard or long configuration, will have an effective thresthold range to engage targets up to and including 22.85 meters (25 yards), 50 meters (54.7 yards) objective with U.S. Government, NATO and SAAMI caliber 45 ammunition.

Targeting/Dispersion: The handgun, as a threshold requirement, will be such that a seven round shot group will not exceed 10.2 cm (4 inches) at 22.85 meters (25 yards) (50 meter (54.7 yards) objective) meters when fired with U.S. Government, NATO and SAAMI .45 caliber ammunition.

Ammunition Compatibility/Functioning: The handgun, as a threshold requirement and without adjustment to the operating system, shall be capable of semi-automatically firing with U.S. Government, NATO and SAAMI standards ammunition (i.e. hardball, frangible, hollow-point) in a safe reliable manner.

Headspace: The headspace readings shall be measured in accordance with SAAMI Technical Committee Manual Handgun.

Firing Pin Indent: The firing pin indent shall be within 0.012 to 0.018 inch and it shall not be off center more than one-half the diameter of the firing pin striker point when tested.

Trigger Pull: The handgun shall have a trigger pull of 5 + 1 pounds. The trigger pull shall be free of creep. Creep shall be interpreted to mean any perceptible movement between the time positive resistance is met and the hammer is released.

High Pressure Resistance: The handgun shall withstand the proof firing of one high-pressure test cartridge, using the SAAMI Technical Committees Manual standard proof load, with no evidence of discontinuities or cracks.

Reloading Rate: The handgun shall allow a trained operator to reload 7 rounds in a box magazine system in less than 25 seconds (threshold) and 20 seconds (objective) for each of the following conditions: by a person dressed in cold weather gloves and mittens, while in a MOPP IV posture and under reduced visibility conditions. Reduced visibility is defined as the ambient light, during clear conditions, between Beginning Morning Nautical Twilight (BMNT) and sunrise.

Temperature Extremes: The handgun shall be operable and safely function at hot (155 degrees + 5 degrees F) and cold (-55 degrees + 5 degrees F) temperatures.

Drop Test: The handgun, with the safety in the on position and an empty primed 45 ACP cartridge case in the chamber, shall be capable of withstanding the impact when dropped from a height of 1.5 meters (five feet) onto a smooth concrete/steel surface without causing any functional damage to the weapon. The primed cartridge case shall not discharge.

Endurance: The handgun shall withstand the firing a minimum of 30,000 rounds without requiring overhaul. The receiver, slide and barrel shall be free of cracks. Cracks shall be defined as discontinuities that are detected by magnetic particle inspection for steel alloy or dye penetrant inspection for non-steel alloy. The receiver, bolt/slide and barrel, as a threshold requirement, shall not need replacing during the 30,000 rounds fired.

Mean Rounds Between Failures (MRBF): The handgun shall demonstrate a MRBF of 5,000 or greater (10,000 is the objective).

A failure is defined as one or more of the following:

Any stoppage that cannot be corrected by the operator within 10 seconds OR

Any parts that are replaced, each part that is replaced shall be counted as one failure, except where the parts failures are interrelated. In this case, all the parts failures that are interrelated shall be counted as one failure.

Mean Rounds Between Stoppages (MRBS): The handgun shall demonstrate a MRBS of 300 or greater (900 is the objective). A stoppage is defined as any incident resulting in unplanned cessation in firing or inability to commence firing. This includes stoppages traceable or chargeable to an unserviceable part. Descriptions include, but are not limited to, failures to feed, extract, eject, close, fire, or failure to function of the magazine.

When it is established that previously recorded stoppages are attributable to an unserviceable part, these shall not be counted against the handgun being tested, provided they occurred not more than 200 round prior to replacement of the unserviceable part. These 200 rounds shall have been fired with the unserviceable part. Also, stoppages attributed to ammunition shall not be counted against the handgun/magazine being tested. However, these shall be recorded and properly identified with supporting analysis.

Maintainability: The handgun shall allow the operator to perform all necessary maintenance using standard DOD lubricants/solvent, without the use of any tools other than the equipment in the standard cleaning kit. Standard cleaning kit consists of the following: Soft-Pak Case, Brass Tip, Patch Saver, Brush, Cleaning Rod 8", Patches, Adapter, Obstruction Remover, T-Handle and NATO Adapter. Parts and assemblies removed or disassembled for maintenance under field conditions shall be designed to prevent improper assembly. Captive hardware shall be used to prevent loss of retaining pins.

Disassembly: The handgun shall be capable of being field-stripped by a trained operator, under normal conditions, in less than 60 seconds (30 seconds is the objective). The handgun shall also allow for field stripping in less than two minutes (one minute is the objective) for each of the following conditions: by a person dressed in cold weather gloves and mittens, while in MOPP IV posture and under reduced visibility conditions. Reduced visibility is defined as the ambient light, during clear conditions, between Beginning Morning Nautical Twilight (BMVT) and sunrise. Disassembly shall be accomplished without the use of any tools other than those in the standard cleaning kit.

Parts Interchangeability: The handgun shall have the capability of exchanging or replacing the parts and modules between like combat handguns. All operator/intermediate support replaceable parts and modules shall be interchangeable without hand or machine fitting.

Corrosion Resistance: Metallic components shall be constructed of corrosion resistant material or coated with corrosion resisting protective coatings. Protective finishes shall minimize the attraction of dust and contamination with organic material. The following finishes are recommended for metallic components:

1) Carbon Steel: Manganese or Zinc Phosphate (ref. 5.3.1, 5.3.2 or Table V, MIL-STD-171);
2) Aluminum: Hard Coat Anodic Coating (reference 7.1, 7.2, 7.5 of Table VII, MIL-STD-171);
3) Corrosion Resistant Steel: Black Oxide (reference 3.3 of Table III, MIL-STD-171)

Salt Fog: The exposed handgun shall function two full magazines, without stoppages, after 96 hours of exposure to a Salt Fog Test.

NBC Contamination: All components of the handgun shall be NBC decontamination survivable.

Fungus: Non-metallic components shall be fungus resistant.

Adverse Environmental Conditions: The handgun shall operate and function after exposure to the following environmental conditions: Sand/Dust; Rain; Icing; Snow; Mud; Salt Water Immersion.

Respondents are welcome to provide additional information in the form of product brochures, press releases, technical specification sheets, independent assessments results, reprints of trade journal articles, etc. Submissions should include pertinent company information, including contact person, phone number, fax number and email address.
That was as of 1/16/2003...quite dated now...

[Dennis G]

yes the Wilson combat is very very good. Persnally however, I have had my eye on a Kimber custom 1911. Those are the best 1911's money can buy IMO. Im even thinking of selling my SAR and buying a Kimber .45!!! Anyone want to buy?

yeah Kimber 1911 is what I carry. Talked about it in jacks post about firearms
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=141237&highlight=#141237

[Uninen]

Are you absolutely sure that this is M1911? Cause to me it looks very much like FN High Power of which Iraqis had plenty.. Oh well.. :roll:

[Dodger1911]

That is definetly a 1911. I think what may have thrown you was the rounded commander hammer which is found on a lot of Hi Powers.

[elguapo]

I hear the Colt 1873 is coming back to :D

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/colt_saa1.jpg

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/coverv/47/172947.jpg

[Ratamacue]

Are you absolutely sure that this is M1911? Cause to me it looks very much like FN High Power of which Iraqis had plenty.. Oh well.. :roll:

That is most definitely not a Hi-Power.

[Uninen]

I get that now.. but its easy to get confused.. as they are both basicly more or less the same gun.. High Power is just more slim.. ;) After all Browning i belive designed the both.. :)

Anyhow.. M1911 is so much better than that Italian crap you were using M9 or what it was :) But thats no big surprice, as m1911 is among the best.. :)

[HumanShield]

Didnt COLT remake the 1911 with the 1991? http://colt.com/cmci/1991.asp

http://colt.com/cmci/images/1991Series_O1991.jpg

[crazyman]

1911A1's seem to be making quite the comeback. if i remember the story right, the FBI's HRT switched over to it. seems to be a general agreement that .45's make for the best handguns for close quarters work. heavy slug means bad guys' goin down with one shot, but the slow speed of the round means it won't over penetrate and say..go through a subject then kill a hostage behind him. Or so sayeth charlie beckwith. Gotta say i'd very much like to see the 1911A1 make a comeback in the U.S. army, given the house to house work we're doing nowadays. Nothing against the M9..i think it's a good, solid pistol for conventional warfares' use of pistols (backup for vehicle crewers, MG gunners, etc) But in the close quarters arena, i'd be very hard pressed to think of anything better then the 1911A1.

[Tommy Gunn]

*Drools... Drools again... Again...* :D

My 'favourite' pistol. Would love to actually handle one and even fire it :)... Will never happen though :(.

*Right-Click, Save Picture As...*

:lol:

Come on over to Las Vegas, NV

There are pistol ranges that have gun rentals. You buy their ammo of course.

http://www.thegunstorelasvegas.com/rental.htm

Click on this link, you can rent up to fifty different types of pistols and revolvers. They also have machine gun rentals.

[Dodger1911]

The 1911 making a comeback?

Don't call it a comeback, it never went away!

[flickme]

My faverites pistol. I actually got to fire one once. It was so awesome.