Iraqi Armored Brigade

[goldman]

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/35/237639633fqqlzqph5pu.jpg
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7771/237640688exefzvph9he.jpg
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/1826/237642289kgbhqvph7dg.jpg
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7559/237646340hmqasbph4dt.jpg
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6479/237647267iksandph5ow.jpg
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9320/244947772dzpdorph2vl.jpg
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7426/263824411ckrgxxph9mu.jpg
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4429/263824614qmjyogph2df.jpg
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9494/269797997ftmtspph0ma.jpg
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9427/269800927xmiuhdph5ku.jpg
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/697/370789338fftbinph4rm.jpg

I'd love to see more pictures.

[ENSIGN FOREVER]

T-55's???? I guess that in urban warfare it's better than nothing, but what happened to the ****load of T-72's that the Eastern Europeans were donating??

Damn, the MTLB's are sooooooo versitile.woot

[Deuterium]

"Stupid ground guide making me turn OHHHHHH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTT!!!"

[ENSIGN FOREVER]

"Stupid ground guide making me turn OHHHHHH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTT!!!"

....don't forget the "rear ground guide". MF is also at fault for screwing your driving.

[Resevoir Hogs]

T-55's???? I guess that in urban warfare it's better than nothing, but what happened to the ****load of T-72's that the Eastern Europeans were donating??

You mean these T-72s?

http://www.mnstci.iraq.centcom.mil/picts/headlines/headline4/images/1.jpg

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=63754&highlight=T-72

[Hyllus]

Nice photos Goldman.

[ENSIGN FOREVER]

You mean these T-72s?

http://www.mnstci.iraq.centcom.mil/picts/headlines/headline4/images/1.jpg

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=63754&highlight=T-72

Oh ya mon!! Dats what I'm talkin' 'bout!!! Gotta say that the hull of the T-72's is prettys lick looking.

[Michael RVR]

You know there is more than one iraqi armoured brigade.

They've been operating the T-55 for a while now. ;)

[[AFSOC]]

T-72's are death traps.....

[Dark Avenger]

Rumor has it that when the Hellenic Army gets its second hand Marder 1A3 IFVs from Germany the BMP-1A1 Ost we have will be sold off to Iraq. Have read it in at least two magazines, so it may be true. Follow the link below to see them in Greek service, and imagine them in desert sand, hehe...
http://armyreco.ifrance.com/europe/grece/vehicules_legers/bmp-1/bmp-1_grece_diaporama.htm

[nagant_m44]

']T-72's are death traps.....

no they are not. Give them modern ammo(not the early 60's crap they had), train them well, and they have a decent chance against any tank. You have to remember that the vast majority of t-72's were destroyed by aircraft, not by other tanks. No tank can survive a hit from a plane launched ATGM, like the maverick.

[ENSIGN FOREVER]

no they are not. Give them modern ammo(not the early 60's crap they had), train them well, and they have a decent chance against any tank. You have to remember that the vast majority of t-72's were destroyed by aircraft, not by other tanks. No tank can survive a hit from a plane launched ATGM, like the maverick.

If memory is still serving me well, during Desert Storm, the vast majority of artillery was destroyed by a/c (which is their mission), and the vast majority of MBT's got whacked by our M1's.

If you have correct numbers please post them, 'cause I would love to freshen my memory.p-)

[gbos]

With old ammo like this and with no thermals they had no chance...

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3354/125mm3bm15iraqi3gt.jpg

[Radarluv]

no they are not. Give them modern ammo(not the early 60's crap they had), train them well, and they have a decent chance against any tank. You have to remember that the vast majority of t-72's were destroyed by aircraft, not by other tanks. No tank can survive a hit from a plane launched ATGM, like the maverick.

Well I was attached to an M1A1 unit during Desert Storm and I would have to go back and look at the pictures to count all the checkmarks on our tanks....but we sure destroyed a helluva lot of hardware to include MBTs during the G-day push....The vast majority of Iraqi tanks were decimated by ground forces (TOWS and Tanks)...not aircraft.

RADAR

[Morboute]

The M1A1's gun did have a good range advantage (if i remember it right).

[ENSIGN FOREVER]

The M1A1's gun did have a good range advantage (if i remember it right).

The IDF's Merkava's whacked the T-72's in Lebanon with 105mm!

[Baron Harkonnen]

The IDF's Merkava's whacked the T-72's in Lebanon with 105mm!

It is false

[ENSIGN FOREVER]

It is false

So it was the other way around then?

[Baron Harkonnen]

So it was the other way around then?

They never met on the bettlefield in 1982.

[ENSIGN FOREVER]

They never met on the bettlefield in 1982.
That's not what the IDF advertises, but I don't have a dog in that fight.

So who met the T-72? 'Cause at least one T-72 met at least one Israeli tank in 1982.

So if not the Merkava then what? M-60 or Centurions (both wepd with 105mm)?

[JoaMei]

no they are not. Give them modern ammo(not the early 60's crap they had), train them well, and they have a decent chance against any tank. You have to remember that the vast majority of t-72's were destroyed by aircraft, not by other tanks. No tank can survive a hit from a plane launched ATGM, like the maverick.

You can not give them modern Ammo, long rod penetrators are not compatible with the Autoloader.

[Baron Harkonnen]

You can not give them modern Ammo, long rod penetrators are not compatible with the Autoloader.

Modern APFSDS enought to defeat any tan on the modern battlefield are compatible with the slightly modefied acompatible with the autoloader used on T-90. This can be used on older tanks.

[Baron Harkonnen]

That's not what the IDF advertises, but I don't have a dog in that fight.

So who met the T-72? 'Cause at least one T-72 met at least one Israeli tank in 1982.

So if not the Merkava then what? M-60 or Centurions (both wepd with 105mm)?

Merkava and Magahs met T-62 and T-55, T-72 did not get in battle with merkava in time before war ended. Though both Russian and Israeli wright about victorios perfomance of their tanks (T-72/merk) in battle.

[ENSIGN FOREVER]

Merkava and Magahs met T-62 and T-55, T-72 did not get in battle with merkava in time before war ended. Though both Russian and Israeli wright about victorios perfomance of their tanks (T-72/merk) in battle.

So you say that the T-72 did not fire a shot in anger in the entire conflict, and there were no tank-vs-tank engagements involving a Syrian T-72?

[Michael RVR]

I know there wasn't any merk - t72 combat, and i remember readon about a column of T-72's that got decimated by (i think) TOW fire while on an admin move.

For some reason memory's failling me on actual attacks performed by T-72's though ?

I'd like some info on any if there was as well.

[Baron Harkonnen]

I know there wasn't any merk - t72 combat, and i remember readon about a column of T-72's that got decimated by (i think) TOW fire while on an admin move.

For some reason memory's failling me on actual attacks performed by T-72's though ?

I'd like some info on any if there was as well.

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_279.shtml

"Final clashes occurred in two sectors. Early in the morning, the 81st Syrian Armoured Brigade, equipped with T-72 tanks, reached Shtawrah - where a forward repair shop was set - and then turned south along two parallel roads – driving directly into positions of the 409 Israeli Anti-Tank battalion (originally part of the Task Force Peled), and M-60s of the 767 Armoured Brigade. In a short but sharp clash that occurred in the late morning, the Israelis hit 12 T-72s with TOWs, forcing the Syrian brigade to pull back to Beirut-Damascus highway. This vital communication, however, remained in Syrian hands: in fact, the Syrians also claimed up to ten M-60s destroyed during this battle while collecting their destroyed and badly damaged T-72s back in Shtawrah."

It is all I can find on the net... info from the russian advisor at repair shop the were 6 tanks destroyed or demaged.

[Resevoir Hogs]

Here's some other Iraqi Armour I found

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Feb2005/050203-D-6570C-003.jpg
http://www.arcent.army.mil/news/archive/2005_news/january/images/iraqi_armor/1_full.jpg
http://www.arcent.army.mil/news/archive/2005_news/january/images/iraqi_armor/2_full.jpg
http://www.arcent.army.mil/news/archive/2005_news/january/images/iraqi_armor/3_full.jpg
http://www.arcent.army.mil/news/archive/2005_news/january/images/iraqi_armor/4_full.jpg

[nagant_m44]

Well I was attached to an M1A1 unit during Desert Storm and I would have to go back and look at the pictures to count all the checkmarks on our tanks....but we sure destroyed a helluva lot of hardware to include MBTs during the G-day push....The vast majority of Iraqi tanks were decimated by ground forces (TOWS and Tanks)...not aircraft.

RADAR

Im talking about t-72s, not the t55. You guys killed way more t55 than t72, and some of you might have confused them, like american GIs calling every german tank a tiger...

[akd]

Plenty of T-72s got whacked. Still a good tank, but not versus an Abrams/Challenger/Leopard generation tank.



73 Easting

Reaching 70 Easting at 16:22, Eagle Troop's 2nd Squadron knocked out a screen of eight Iraqi T-72 tanks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-72_tank). Beyond, they could see T-72s in prepared positions at 73 Easting. This was the Iraqi Brigade Assembly Area. Fearing the loss of surprise, Eagle Troop's Captain H.R. McMaster decided not to wait for the heavier units to come forward, pass through his lines and engage the Iraqis. McMaster ordered Eagle Troop to advance and engage the Iraqi tanks.
Eagle Troop consisted of 10 M1 Abrams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1A1_Abrams) tanks, 13 M3 Bradleys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_Bradley), two M106 mortar carriers, one M577 command track and a M981 FIST-V.
Armored battles in the open desert are generally decided very quickly; 73 Easting was no exception. The 2nd ACR surprised the enemy and penetrate the Iraqi positions so quickly that they were unable to recover. Superior American night vision equipment turned the poor weather into a U.S. advantage.
McMaster's unit charged and destroyed the Iraqi tanks at 73 Easting at close range. Unlike previous engagements, the destruction of the first Iraqi tanks did not result in the wholesale surrender of Iraqi soldiers. The Iraqis stood their ground while their tanks and armored personnel carriers of the Tawakalna Division attempted to maneuver and fight. Eagle Troop destroyed more than 20 tanks and other armored vehicles, a number of trucks and bunkers, and took large numbers prisoners with no losses to themselves. In 20 minutes, Eagle Troop had advanced in constant heavy contact with Iraqi armor from 67 Easting to 74 Easting.
Other 2nd ACR Troops, I (Iron), K (Killer), and G (Ghost), had joined the fighting at 73 Easting as well. By 16:40, Ghost Troop had assumed a fixed position on a ridge overlooking a wadi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wadi) at, and parallel to, the 73 Easting phase line, north of Eagle Troop's battle. During the fight the Republican Guards' Tawakalna Divsion's 18th Brigade had gotten tangled up with the 12th Iraqi AD, and both enemy units were trying to retreat through the same narrow piece of terrain, a shallow valley between two ridgelines, leading straight into Ghost Troop. At 18:30 the first of several waves of Iraqi T-72 and T-55 tanks advanced into the wadi in their bid to escape, directly into Ghost Troop. The fighting was fierce as wave after wave of tanks and infantry charged Ghost Troop. The other troops and tank companies were fighting largely against dug-in soldiers and stationary tanks, not the waves of armored charges faced by Ghost Troop that night. The fighting was so intense that more than once, only the calling in of artillery and helicopter gunships saved Ghost Troop. During the six-hour battle, the Ghost Troop fire support team called in 720 howitzer rounds. By 21:00 Ghost Troop was desperately short on ammunition and a tank company, Hawk, was sent in to relieve them. Ghost Troop lost one M3 Bradley to Iraqi tank fire and one soldier, Sgt. Nels A. Moller, the gunner of the Bradley, was killed. Reportedly, the Bradley had depleted its supply of TOW (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BGM-71_TOW) missiles and was laying fire with its 25mm cannon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M242) when it was hit by cannon fire from an Iraqi T-55.

The significance of the Battle of 73 Easting

The 2nd ACR, which advanced between the Iraqi 12th Armored Division and the Tawakalna Division, was the only American ground unit to find itself decisively outnumbered and out-gunned. Nonetheless, the 2nd ACR's three squadrons, along with the 1 Infantry Division's two leading brigades, destroyed two Iraqi brigades (18th Mechanized Brigade and 37th Armored Brigade) of the Tawakalna Division. The 2nd ACR alone destroyed about 85 tanks, 40 personnel carriers and more than 30 wheeled vehicles, along with several anti-aircraft artillery systems during the battle. The equivalent of an Iraqi brigade was destroyed at 73 Easting; it was the first ground defeat of the Republican Guards. Within 24 hours, most of the other Iraqi brigades were gone.
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Battle_of_73_Easting&action=edit&section=6)]
[/URL]
Casualties

Iraqi

85 Tanks (mostly [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-72"]T-72s (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/) with some (T-55)s)
40 Infantry Fighting Vehicles (mainly BMP-2s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMP-2), MTLBs and BRDMs )
39 trucks
1 ZU-23
1,300 prisoners
unknown KIA and woundedUS

1 M1 tank
4 M3 Bradleys
7 KIA, most due to friendly fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire)
30 wounded, again, most due to friendly fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire)

[nagant_m44]

modern t72, like the russian versions, have good night vision equipment. The version the iraqis had was considerably dumbed down. Also, the Iraqis were using ancienct Steel APFSDS penetrators. If they had proper training, night thermals, and ammunition, (of course, this is only if the air force does not intervene) they could have held their own.

[akd]

modern t72, like the russian versions, have good night vision equipment. The version the iraqis had was considerably dumbed down. Also, the Iraqis were using ancienct Steel APFSDS penetrators. If they had proper training, night thermals, and ammunition, (of course, this is only if the air force does not intervene) they could have held their own.

Nice hypothesis, but you have no way to hold this up as truth. They might have. They might not have.

[nagant_m44]

Nice hypothesis, but you have no way to hold this up as truth. They might have. They might not have.

ive heard US generals say that if they had the iraqi equipment, and if the iraqis had the american equipment, then the US would still win.

[Whoami88]

If I don't mind saying is that the Iraqi Army actually looks like... well an military force now.

THey look 1000% more competent then the Saddam years

[akd]

ive heard US generals say that if they had the iraqi equipment, and if the iraqis had the american equipment, then the US would still win.

Even more speculative. Please bring some facts to the discussion. And no more, "yeah, but if..."

[Jim Warford]

no they are not. Give them modern ammo(not the early 60's crap they had), train them well, and they have a decent chance against any tank. You have to remember that the vast majority of t-72's were destroyed by aircraft, not by other tanks. No tank can survive a hit from a plane launched ATGM, like the maverick.

This is simply wrong...the ground forces in Desert Storm killed more tanks (of all kinds) than the US Air Force. Any claims to the contrary are based solely on propaganda (yes, some fostered by the US Air Force), but still only propaganda. The official documentation on the war, statements made by the Iraqis themselves, and press reports all confirm that the kill numbers attributed to "tank plinking" by US aircraft were far below the reported numbers made by official sources. Also, keep in-mind that a comparison beween the M1A1 and the T-72 is one of apples and oranges...the two tanks aren't even in the same class.

Now, I've been a fan of Soviet/Russian tanks for many years...and I've written many articles on the subject. In it's prime of life during the Cold War, the T-72 wasn't even the best Soviet tank. More recent upgrades have improved its capabilities (the new Russian "T-72M1," the Ukrainian T-72/120 and T-72MP, etc...), are better tanks than the T-72 (Base Model), T-72M/T-72G, and T-72M1s used by the Iraqis (both in Desert Storm and OIF), but even the newer variants are no match for the M1A1, M1A2, Leo 2A5/A6, Challenger 2, Merkava Mk III/Mk IV, etc.