U.S. Envoy: Anti-Semitism in Europe Nearly as Bad as in 1930

[Tommy Gunn]

Haaretz (http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/393804.html)

Brussels – The U.S. envoy to the European Union said on Thursday that anti-Semitism in Europe was nearly as bad as it was in the 1930s, a decade which saw the rise of German Nazism and led to the extermination of six millions Jews.

The remarks by Ambassador Rockwell Schnabel are likely to rekindle controversy over charges that anti-Semitism is on the rise in Europe, which prompted the European Union's executive to schedule a major seminar on the issue next week.

Speaking at a dinner given by the American Jewish Committee to launch a Transatlantic Institute in Brussels, Schnabel said relations between Europe and the United States had improved since last year's acrimony over the U.S.-led war in Iraq.

"There is one issue that we can work on together," he said. "It is to overcome the issue of anti-Semitism which … is indeed — as I understand it and read — getting to a point where it is as bad as it was in the 30s."

He did not elaborate.

-snip-

[soma]

I don't think fascism will rise again, not after people saw what it did the first time through. :|

[Tommy Gunn]

I don't think fascism will rise again, not after people saw what it did the first time through. :|

Most of the attacks on Jews lately seem to be coming from the anti-war movement and the muslims. Much of this modern anti-semitism is fueled by Europe's loathing of Israel and their support for the PLO cause.

[Dalleer]

Funny, before I came here I just watched the news concerning this matter. Can't say that this is good, though...

[cut]

:roll:

I think it's safe to say in continental Europe, anti-semitism, is about as rife as anti-islamic sentiment in the US.

[StarvingStudent47]

:roll:

I think it's safe to say in continental Europe, anti-semitism, is about as rife as anti-islamic sentiment in the US.

Did you know that even in 2001, the year of the WTC attacks (and the backlashes that followed), anti-Jewish hatecrimes outnumbered anti-Muslim hatecrimes TWO TO ONE in the United States? That's from official FBI statistics. That's both total numbers and per capita--Muslim and Jewish populations in the USA are roughly the same size. And according to French police statistics, hate crimes against Jews were nearly 40 times more common in France than in the USA.

So if you do the math, it's not "as bad," it's 80 times worse.

Several French synagogues have been torched or bombed in the past year alone. Find me a SINGLE incident of a mosque being torched or bombed in the USA since 9/11/01. I won't hold my breath.

I originally dug up all these facts about six months ago, but I didn't have the foresight to save the links. The FBI and French Police hate crimes statistics are public information though, so I'm sure google will lead you to them. Then just figure out per-capita hate crimes rates using the Muslim and Jewish population sizes of the USA and France, and you'll see my numbers are correct.

[fantassin]

Read this article written by a Jew in a Jewish magazine about "so-called anti-semitism".


September 29, 2003 - Abusing 'Anti-Semitism' by Ran HaCohen

The eve of the Jewish New Year is an excellent occasion for what Jewish tradition calls Kheshbon Nefesh, or soul-searching on so-called "anti-semitism", which has now become the single most important element of Jewish identity. Jews may believe in God or not, eat pork or not, live in Israel or not, but they are all united by their unlimited belief in anti-semitism.

When a Palestinian kills innocent Israeli civilians, it's anti-semitism. When Palestinians attack soldiers of Israel's occupation army in their own village, it's anti-semitism. When the UN General Assembly votes 133 to 4 condemning Israel's decision to murder the elected Palestinian leader, it means that except for the US, Micronesia and Marshal Islands, all other countries on the globe are anti-semitic. Even when a pregnant Palestinian woman is stopped at an Israeli check-point and gives birth in open field, the only lesson to be learnt is that Ha'aretz journalist Gideon Levy – who reported two such cases in the past two weeks, one in which the baby died – is an anti-semite.

Anti-semitism is an all-encompassing explanation. Anything unpleasant to anti-Palestinian ears is just another instance of anti-semitism. Jewish consciousness focused on anti-semitism has taken the shape of anti-semitic conspiracy theories, like that of The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion: whereas the anti-semitic classic relates every calamity to Jewish conspiracy, Jews relate to anti-semitic conspiracy every criticism of Israel. As we shall see, this is not the only similarity between anti-Palestinianism and anti-semitism.

It is high time to say it out loud: in the entire course of Jewish history, since the Babylonian Exile in the 6th century BC, there has never been an era blessed with less anti-semitism than ours. There has never been a better time for Jews to live in than our own.

Up to just two generations ago, anti-semitism was a legitimate political and cultural attitude in most of the world's leading powers. Anti-semitism was something you could express openly, even be proud of. Disliking Jews was as natural then as detesting cockroaches is today. Nowadays, anti-semitism is a taboo and a criminal offence in every developed country on earth. Even truly anti-semitic groups deny their anti-semitic character, knowing it is politically unacceptable. Unlike earlier centuries, where anti-semitism stood in direct proportion to the number of Jews in the pertinent country and thus constituted a real threat to them, the countries where anti-semitism is still thriving today – mostly poor Muslim countries – are virtually empty of Jews, so that the actual danger to Jews there is minimal; representatives of Muslim communities in the West have to give up their anti-semitism as a precondition for entering the political system.

Just a few generations ago – the Holocaust aside for now – Jews were treated as second-class citizens in all major Jewish concentrations. They were denied civic and religious rights almost universally. There were limits on access of Jews to universities and many professions, to public service and to any position of power; sometimes even marrying and making children was dependent on quotas and licences. Such institutionalised discrimination and oppression is not only totally extinct today: it is utterly unimaginable. With one revealing exception (Israel, where non-orthodox religious Jews are discriminated against), Jews enjoy full religious freedom wherever they are. They have full citizenship wherever they live, with full political, civic and human rights like every other citizen. This may sound trivial, but it was not so just a few generations ago and throughout the entire first and second millennia. Repressive regimes have either collapsed, or their Jewish population has left them.

Nowadays, an orthodox Jew can run for the most powerful office on earth, the president of the United States (I personally hope he doesn't win). A Jew can be the mayor of Amsterdam in "anti-semitic" Holland, a minister in "anti-semitic" Britain, a leading intellectual in "anti-semitic" France, a president of "anti-semitic" Switzerland, editor-in-chief of a major daily in "anti-semitic" Denmark, or an industrial tycoon in "anti-semitic" Russia. None of this was imaginable a century ago. Jews have free and unlimited access to every institution in every country they live in; Ironically, a converted Jew is even mentioned as a possible successor to the Holy See. At the same time, "anti-semitic" Germany (home to the world's fastest-growing Jewish community) gives Israel three military submarines for free, "anti-semitic" France has proliferated to Israel the nuclear technology for its weapons of mass destruction, and "anti-semitic" Europe has welcomed Israel as a single non-European country to everything from football and basketball leagues to the Eurovision Song Contest, and has granted Israeli universities a special status for scientific fund-raising.
The Holocaust has been the greatest catastrophe in Jewish history and among the greatest crimes in human history – but the very fact that these words sound so obvious is a great victory on anti-semitism. The term genocide, coined by a Jewish survivor of the Holocaust (R. Lemkin) and modelled on the genocide of the Jews, has found its way to international legislation and been affirmed as a crime by almost all the countries on earth, including eventually (with a shamefully long delay) the US. The Holocaust has (justly!) become the prototype of genocide, a synonym for Crime against Humanity. There were several other genocides in the 20th century – enough to mention the Armenian genocide by Turks (which preceded and inspired the Holocaust) or the Tutsi genocide by Hutu in Rwanda (which was even more "efficient" than the Holocaust). However, while other genocides are still struggling even to be acknowledged, the Holocaust is the only genocide which is considered unquestionable to the extent that its denial is in some countries a criminal offence. No other genocide even comes close to the 250 memorial museums and research institutes dedicated to the Holocaust around the world, and no other genocide survivors have been financially compensated like the persecuted Jews. In such a world, whoever cries "anti-semitism" twice a day has an extremely heavy burden of proof to shoulder.

The State of Israel has always been cynically exploiting allegations of anti-semitism, condemning purported and cooperating with actual anti-semites at will. Last week, to quote just a minor example, when the world was outraged by Italy's monarch Berlusconi's claim that his fascist predecessor Mussolini "had not killed anybody but just sent people to holidays in exile" – which comes fairly close to Holocaust denial – the only official Israeli reaction was that of an unnamed spokesman for the 2nd Minister in the Ministry of Finance, who mumbled that "If the words have been said (!), one can not agree with them, since History speaks for itself" (Ha'aretz 14.9, p.12 bottom). The reason for this ear-deafening outcry is simple: Berlusconi, like most right-wing extremists, has taken a decisive pro-Israel stand in Europe. So let him even deny the Holocaust if he likes, Israel will show understanding. After all, Israel was a closest ally of the most racist regime in the post-WWII era, South Africa's Apartheid: moral considerations have never played any role whatsoever in Israel's politics and diplomacy.

On a state level, some may excuse it as Realpolitik. The institutionalised pro-Israel lobby has compromised its integrity to such an extent, that I won't be surprised if, say, the Anti-Defamation League, which cries anti-semitic wolf on a daily basis, now hails the fascist apologist Berlusconi as a distinguished statesman; Actually, precisely this world-record of hypocricy has taken place this very week. Much more disturbing is the intensive resorting to "anti-semitism" claims by Jewish individuals and institutions who do try to maintain a look of integrity.Such claims take many creative forms: for example, some Jews have a morally repulsive pastime of looking for worst cases of oppression – Russian atrocities in Chechnya (whose veterans, by the way, join the Israeli army), Chinese in Tibet – which supposedly "prove" that the media focus on Israel is anti-semitically motivated. As if it were not outrageous enough to be on the shortlist of evil-doers, as if only the gold medal in this satanic competition, but not bronze or silver, is worthy of protest. And I wonder how many of those arm-chair pro-Israel Tibet specialists ever bothered to actually do something to free Tibet, except for exploiting its suffering to distract from Israel's atrocities.

The abuse of alleged anti-semitism is morally despicable. It took hundreds of years and millions of victims to turn anti-semitism – a specific case of racism which led historically to genocide – into a taboo. People abusing this taboo in order to support Israel's racist and genocidal policy towards the Palestinians do nothing less than desecrate the memory of those Jewish victims, whose death, from a humanistic perspective, is meaningful only inasmuch as it serves as an eternal warning to the human kind against all kinds of discrimination, racism, and genocide. Moreover, portraying the victimisers as victims – a standard characteristic of anti-Palestinian propaganda – is precisely what anti-semitism has always done: in blood-libels which portrayed defenceless Jewish victims as victimisers of Christian children, or in the ultimate accusation of Christ killing, which abused the persecution of early Christians to legitimate the persecution of Jews once the balance of power changed. Thus, evoking Jewish victims of the past to defend Jewish victimisers of the present –remember that Israel has one of the mightiest armies on earth – is a moral fault on a par with, and embarrassingly similar to, anti-semitism itself.

Happy New Year 5764.

– Ran HaCohen

[Argyll]

I thought Arabs were semitic as well?


SEMITE
1.A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.
2.A Jew.
3.Bible. A descendant of Shem.

[Hullebullen]

Yeah, you're right linguistically (wonder if I just made that word up...hmm...) speaking, Argyll but still...in everyday speech, anti-semite is anti-jewish. You don't need to confuse some of the less gifted minds out there :)

[UkrainianAmerican]

Read this article written by a Jew in a Jewish magazine about "so-called anti-semitism".


[n
Retarded article form a retarded author who has too many trees to molest.

[steel bonnet]

Well personally,this is all crock!

It`s like the Ethnic groups in the UK & elsewhere Scream RACIST.

The Jewish community still Scream ANTI-SEMITISM.

There both scared of actually being APART of the HUMAN RACE on the Whole,they want to be something more.

That in itself has to be the Biggest HATE campaign.

Ja
Steel Bonnet

[Master_Gunner]

"Trees to molest..." That was great!

[S'13]

The Jewish community still Scream ANTI-SEMITISM.


What else do you want them to scream while synagogues are been set on fire and people are being attacked for wearing a yarmulke... :cantbeli:

[The Walrus]

I live in the UK and I can say that I've never seen anti-semitism occur, Asians bear the main brunt of racism here in Britain.

[radon]

The truth is jews as a group are in a better protected from public opinion in many places. Remember the topic with the chinese workers. If that would have happened in Finland, Finland would have been under huge pressure and in a strict economic embargo.

Another aproach would be better. Bombing people with "antisemitism" all the time. And the xth time accusing people still being deep rooted antisemites. And in Sweden with that piece of "art" , was not necessary. Even if that was done by one individual. Or when someone critizises Israel for whatever reason , then responding right away with "antisemitism". That is something that not all have done ,but some.

The current way doesent reduce burning synagogues one bit. And those people dont have huge support, anywhere anyway. A more moderate aproach would be better imo.

[IDFM203]

Ok since everyone here enjoys playing semantics, well I’ll make it simple ;)

Anti Jews is much worse then it used to be.

In my opinion nothing really ever changed, just it was kept in the closet a bit more before then it is now.

The fact is that in a lot of parts in Europe and especially in France (and fantession spare me the few “Jewish” articles, I know lots of people in France now and I think they have a good read of how it is to be Jewish there) anti Jews has been more open in France and in fact a lot of Jews that before wore a kippa now don’t out of apprehension of them being accosted verbally or even in some case physically.


I see there are a lot of Europeans here that say they never saw anti Semitism occur and to that I say that I have a lots of friends in a lot of different nations in Europe and they have seen and experienced it at certain times, not to mention a lot of Jewish accounts I read in papers of incidents, so I guess you can bury your head in the sand and say that it doesn’t exist or that its not at any certain level (and yes at what level is a debate) but we Jews don’t have that luxury, we remember full well what happened the last time no Jews spoke up or when a few lone voices of concern were spoken, and most of their fellow jews ignored their warnings :(

Anyways, in truth, I am concerned about Jews living in Europe, but not as concerned as if I was a Jew living in the 1930’s for yes I concede it is not at that level (yet) and there are other factors now that lesson my doom and gloom worry. (For those other factors, a hint would be my screen name and my sig, especially the one in green ;) )


I just want to stress that in no way am I saying that all Europeans are anti Jewish or that even a majority are, however at the same token, I don’t think its a mere few extremists that harbor those anti Jewish feelings for it’s a lot more prevalent that that and it is a growing problem in Europe for the Jews living there especially the ones that are openly Jewish (like wearing a star of David or a kippa).

Shalom :D

[S'13]

I live in the UK and I can say that I've never seen anti-semitism occur, Asians bear the main brunt of racism here in Britain.

This is not just about the UK but about Europe as a whole. The main increase in anti-Semitism is in France.

[fantassin]

[quoteThe main increase in anti-Semitism is in France.[/quote]


I have said it before, everything about France is bad. That's why it's the most visited country in the world.

How comes it stills harbour the biggest Jewish community in Europe then?

If life was so horrible for them there they would have moved out long ago.

[IDFM203]

I have said it before, everything about France is bad. No one said everything is bad!!


Hell you guys have great food and great restaurants. (Even good kosher food ;) )

So no not everything is bad ;)


How comes it stills harbour the biggest Jewish community in Europe then?

If life was so horrible for them there they would have moved out long ago.First of all a lot have indeed left!!

Secondly, again I said before its not the 1930’s but it is alarming and more French Jews are in fact considering leaving.

Listen, those Jews have lived there their whole life, a lot of them love France, even some of those that are increasingly worried, for it’s their whole life. But if the situation gets worse, then those Jews would have to have some deep introspection and would have to consider other alternatives.

I want to stress that the situation is not there (yet) but it is a bit alarming and worrisome.

Shalom :D

[fantassin]

Here is an example of French "anti-semitism"

Israel hails French anti-Semite jailings


PARIS, Jan 28 (AFP) - In a rare show of official praise for France, an Israeli minister Wednesday lauded the country for imprisoning people found guilty of anti-Jewish hate crimes.

Israeli Internal Security Minister Tzahi Hanegbi, on a visit to Paris, said "France is the only state in all of Europe in which people who exercise anti-Semitic activities are behind bars."

He singled out French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, with whom he had just met, for promoting the tough measures.

"I don't know about other places in the world, but France is a leading state in this sense and I know it is only a result of the leadership and the determination of Mr Sarkozy," he said.

"France is not an anti-Semitic state, on the contrary. The people are not anti-Semitic, the leadership is not anti-Semitic, but there are some phenomena in the country that have to be addressed," he said.

The French and Israeli governments have often clashed over Israeli claims that anti-Semitism is on the rise in France and is being largely ignored by authorities.



Last weekend the Jewish state alleged anti-Semitic incidents in France had actually increased last year, despite official figures put out by Sarkozy showing that they had dropped by more than a third.

Officials - from President Jacques Chirac on down - have in the past repeatedly stated they they would vigorously punish any proven anti-Semitic crimes.

France has Western Europe's biggest Jewish community, estimated to number around 600,000.

Israel's President Moshe Katsav is due to travel to France next month to discuss the issue with Chirac.



© AFP

[S'13]

If life was so horrible for them there they would have moved out long ago.

In 2002 there was an increas of over 100% in the amount of Jews who emigrated to Israel from France in comparison to 2001, doesn't that say something?
Also when you think about it, it's not that easy leaving a country you were born and raised in. And of course many French Jews love their country.

[Argyll]

I'd like to see the same links about synagogues being burnt down,or even mosques and churches for that matter,and a list of the countries that it is happening in ...........so far France has been the only one named........which worries me a great deal as I'd like to point out to our semetic friends wherever they are in the World,that France is not Europe,there are at least 30 other countries that constitute Europe,so how can we be labelled with the same Anti semetism?

Not trying to start anything but like I said,any religious place of worship that has been attacked in the past 2-3 years will do?

[fantassin]

Another side of the story:

Israeli officials shame-faced after
reports on Chirac prove to be false (JTA, Global News Service of the Jewish People)

By Philip Carmel


PARIS, Oct. 21 (JTA) Israeli and Jewish officials in Paris were forced into damage control mode this week after Israeli news reports accused French President Jacques Chirac of condoning anti-Semitism.

According to the reports, Chirac and Greek Prime Minister Costas Simitis had blocked moves at last weekend´s European summit meeting in Brussels to include a condemnation of anti-Semitic remarks made by Malaysia´s prime minister at last week´s conference of Islamic states.

In an Oct. 16 speech to the Conference of Islamic States, Mahathir Mohamad accused Jews of "ruling the world by proxy" and of causing "others to fight and die for them."

He called on the Muslim world to marshal its resources toward a "final victory" over the Jews.

Reports that Chirac had helped block a condemnation of Mahathir´s speech were published widely in the Israeli media. They elicited strong rebukes from editorial writers and politicians, most notably in the Ma´ariv newspaper, which published a large photograph of Chirac on its front page with the caption "The anti-Semitic face of France."

Ma´ariv´s editor, Amnon Dankner, penned a piece on Chirac titled "The Collaborator."

The Israelis weren´t the only ones taken in by the false report — Mahathir himself praised Chirac for his support.

"I never thought that the Europeans were against me," Mahathir told a Malaysian newspaper. "I don´t understand them but I´m happy that at least Mr. Chirac understands me. I want to thank him publicly."

But the reports proved false. Along with other European leaders, Chirac had supported a statement from the E.U.´s rotating presidency — the usual forum for political statements on behalf of the European Union — condemning Mahathir´s remarks.

"The Malaysian prime minister has used very shocking expressions not just for Jews — which are strongly anti-Semitic — but also statements which oppose principles of tolerance and dialogue between the West and the Muslim world," Foreign Minister Franco Frattini of Italy, which currently holds the E.U. presidency, said on behalf of the 15-member bloc.

Chirac "was associated with Friday´s condemnation of the anti-Semitic statements made by the Italian presidency on behalf of all the countries of the European Union," a presidential spokesperson said.

Moreover, since the Italians already had made an official statement, European leaders said they saw no need to condemn the remarks again in the closing statement of the European summit.

The response was equally firm from individual E.U. member states, with Belgian Foreign Minister Louis Michel describing Mahathir´s remarks as "demented and totally anti-Semitic." Germany called in Malaysia´s ambassador to explain why the remarks were unacceptable.

For his part, Chirac sent a personal letter to Mahathir condemning the remarks.

"While you and your government should have taken care to challenge any accusation of anti-Semitism, these statements can only be condemned by all those who guard the memory of the Holocaust," Chirac wrote.

The fall-out continued to grow throughout the week, with President Bush criticizing Mahathir on Monday. Mahathir then defended his sentiments — and reiterated some of them — in an interview with a Thai newspaper.

Regarding Chirac´s role, however, Israeli representatives in France apologized when the facts became known.

"We are very well aware of the positions of Mr. Chirac, and this is not a man who can be accused of anti-Semitism or racism," Israel´s ambassador to France, Nissim Zvilli, said on the radio station France Info.

Claiming that there had been "a certain misunderstanding," Zvilli said that "Chirac did nothing to torpedo a European decision to condemn the anti-Semitic and hateful declarations of the Malaysian prime minister."

Similar remarks came from a senior embassy source, who told JTA that the French were "very annoyed" with the response in Israel to the reports.

French Jewish leaders also thought Israeli politicians and journalists had acted hastily.

"They were too quick to jump to conclusions without checking with" French officials, said Serge Cwajgenbaum, secretary-general of the Paris-based European Jewish Congress.

Cwajgenbaum praised the E.U. statement — though he said he would have liked to have seen a statement from the heads of state as well.

Roger Cukierman, president of the CRIF umbrella organization of French Jews, agreed, describing the statement from the Italian presidency as "insufficient and too formal." A CRIF statement called on France´s Foreign Ministry to formally protest to the Malaysian ambassador in Paris.

Nevertheless, Cukierman said in an interview, "one can accuse the president of many things, notably France´s policy toward Israel, but it is scandalous to accuse him of anti-Semitism. No French president has shown such a commitment to recognizing French responsibility for acts committed against Jews."

"There is anti-Semitism in France and I have never wanted to underestimate it," Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy said. "But to say that France is anti-Semitic and that the president of the republic did not decide to act in a determined way in this matter is a lie and an outrage."

[IDFM203]

I'd like to see the same links about synagogues being burnt down,or even mosques and churches for that matter,and a list of the countries that it is happening in ........... …………..and while we are at it would you also like tea and crumpets (I hope I said that correctly ;) ) to go along with all that ;)


I could do the research but I figured what’s the point.

Yes synagogues have burnt down in france and yes I remember reading of incidents of Jews getting beaten in France and even in Germany.

There have been incidents like this in other places as well.

Listen its not only about physical attacks, there have been swastika spray paintings on jewish buildings in a lot of different nations in Europe and Jews in a lot of different places in Europe have been verbally accosted.

Ill repeat “I just want to stress that in no way am I saying that all Europeans are anti Jewish or that even a majority are, however at the same token, I don’t think its a mere few extremists that harbor those anti Jewish feelings for it’s a lot more prevalent that that and it is a growing problem in Europe for the Jews living there especially the ones that are openly Jewish (like wearing a star of David or a kippa)”

Shalom :D

[Argyll]

I'd like to see the same links about synagogues being burnt down,or even mosques and churches for that matter,and a list of the countries that it is happening in ........... …………..and while we are at it would you also like tea and crumpets (I hope I said that correctly ;) ) to go along with all that ;)

Yep you said that correctly! ;)


I could do the research but I figured what’s the point.

Exactly!

Yes synagogues have burnt down in france and yes I remember reading of incidents of Jews getting beaten in France and even in Germany.

Guys get beat up and shot here in Scotland all the time,but they were not Jews or Arabs just victims of crime

There have been incidents like this in other places as well.

No doubt there has,I'm also willing to bet that other races,Creeds ,Colours and religions have also been beaten up regularly,and their places of Worship attacked too

Listen its not only about physical attacks, there have been swastika spray paintings on jewish buildings in a lot of different nations in Europe and Jews in a lot of different places in Europe have been verbally accosted.

There has been attacks on Muslims here in Britain with Paint being thrown over houses,Mosques,cars,childeren of ethnic minorities have been abused and victimised,along with Blacks and Asians,there have also been attacks by Muslims on White folks too,it is not just Jews who are targets

Ill repeat “I just want to stress that in no way am I saying that all Europeans are anti Jewish or that even a majority are, however at the same token, I don’t think its a mere few extremists that harbor those anti Jewish feelings for it’s a lot more prevalent that that and it is a growing problem in Europe for the Jews living there especially the ones that are openly Jewish (like wearing a star of David or a kippa)”

Try telling this to a Catholic wearing a crucifix in Govan(Scotland) on a saturday night after a Rangers V's Celtic football game.Scotland is a hotbed of sectarianism,especially the West Coast(My side),where being a Catholic or a Protestant in the wrong place will get you killed,and I'm deadly serious about this

I know you're not labelling us all Anti semetic,but again France and Germany even do not constitute the whole of Europe,if however there were reports coming out of Anti jewish hatred from every country in Europe,then I'd be inclined to agree with this,but the overall picture I feel is getting blown out of proportion,I would think that refugees would be more susceptable to attacks,and I'm afraid the vast majority of them are Muslims,or Orthadox and also Gypsies......who also suffered the same persecution by the Nazi's as the Jews in the 30's,lets also remember that many European Nations harboured their Jewish friends at great personal risk from the nazi's during WW2
Shalom :D

[Pégase]

facts about the jews populations in the world :


United States 5,800,000
Israel 4,847,000
France 600,000
Russia 550,000
Ukraine 400,000
Canada 360,000
United Kingdom 300,000
Argentina 250,000
Brazil 130,000
South Africa 106,000
Australia 100,000
Hungary 80,000
Belarus 60,000
Germany 60,000
Mexico 40,700
Belgium 40,000
Italy 35,000
Uzbekistan 35,000
Venezuela 35,000
Uruguay 32,500
Azerbaijan 30,000
Moldova 30,000
Netherlands 30,000
Iran 25,000
Turkey 25,000
Sweden 18,000
Switzerland 18,000
Georgia 17,000
Chile 15,000
Kazakhstan 15,000
Latvia 15,000
Romania 14,000
Spain 14,000
Austria 10,000
Denmark 8,000
Poland 8,000
Morocco 7,500
Hawaii, USA 7,000
Panama 7,000
Czech Republic 6,000
India 6,000
Lithuania 6,000
Slovakia 6,000
Colombia 5,650
Greece 5,000
New Zealand 5,000
Kyrgyzstan 4,500
Bulgaria 3,000
Estonia 3,000
Peru 3,000
Puerto Rico 3,000
Costa Rica 2,500
Hong Kong 2,500
Yugoslavia 2,500
Croatia 2,000
Japan 2,000
Tunisia 2,000
Tajikistan 1,800
Norway 1,500
Guatemala 1,200
Finland 1,200
Paraguay 1,200
Turkmenistan 1,200
Cuba 1,000
Ecuador 1,000
Ireland 1,000
Monaco 1,000
Zimbabwe 925
Portugal 900
Yemen 800
Bosnia-Herzegovina 600
Gibraltar 600
Luxembourg 600
Ethiopia 500
Kenya 400
Netherlands Antilles 400
US Virgin Islands 400
Bolivia 380
Zaire 320
Jamaica 300
Singapore 300
Dominican Republic 250
Philippines 250
Syria 250
Thailand 250
Armenia 200
Bahamas 200
Suriname 200
South Korea 150
El Salvador 120
Iraq 120
Tahiti 120

the jew population in France, is not only the biggest of Europe, it is also the third biggest behind ... the US ... and Israel !
:cantbeli:


with 6 millions of muslims , France has also the biggest muslim population in Europe



now with this numbers in perspective, u have an idea from where and what can come all this troubles

this is a veritable transfer of the israelo-palestinian conflict, inside France borders !
:cantbeli:


now what would be the solution for France to all this mess ? any advice or idea someone ?

[IDFM203]

You just love that color scheme my friend..ok ill reciprocate in kind.




I'd like to see the same links about synagogues being burnt down,or even mosques and churches for that matter,and a list of the countries that it is happening in ........... …………..and while we are at it would you also like tea and crumpets (I hope I said that correctly ;) ) to go along with all that ;)

Yep you said that correctly! ;)
good, my “British” isn’t as bad as I thought it was ;)

I could do the research but I figured what’s the point.

Exactly!
Good that you agree with me and as such there is no need to do any research. ;)


Yes synagogues have burnt down in france and yes I remember reading of incidents of Jews getting beaten in France and even in Germany.

Guys get beat up and shot here in Scotland all the time,but they were not Jews or Arabs just victims of crime
yes and at times there are also Jews in Europe that get beat up and shot or robed and it is a random crime, but there are a also a lot of incidents where Jews get beat up or verbally accosted ONLY because they are Jews and not because of some random mugging or some random etc…

There have been incidents like this in other places as well.

No doubt there has,I'm also willing to bet that other races,Creeds ,Colours and religions have also been beaten up regularly,and their places of Worship attacked too
and that’s a problem as well. Any one of any race or religion that gets assaulted ONLY because of their race or religion is wrong and the fact is that it’s a growing problem in Europe and yes its not only Jews that are facing that probelm.

Listen its not only about physical attacks, there have been swastika spray paintings on jewish buildings in a lot of different nations in Europe and Jews in a lot of different places in Europe have been verbally accosted.

There has been attacks on Muslims here in Britain with Paint being thrown over houses,Mosques,cars,childeren of ethnic minorities have been abused and victimised,along with Blacks and Asians,there have also been attacks by Muslims on White folks too,it is not just Jews who are targets
read above

Ill repeat “I just want to stress that in no way am I saying that all Europeans are anti Jewish or that even a majority are, however at the same token, I don’t think its a mere few extremists that harbor those anti Jewish feelings for it’s a lot more prevalent that that and it is a growing problem in Europe for the Jews living there especially the ones that are openly Jewish (like wearing a star of David or a kippa)”

Try telling this to a Catholic wearing a crucifix in Govan(Scotland) on a saturday night after a Rangers V's Celtic football game.Scotland is a hotbed of sectarianism,especially the West Coast(My side),where being a Catholic or a Protestant in the wrong place will get you killed,and I'm deadly serious about this
and that’s wrong too………..again read above

I know you're not labelling us all Anti semetic,but again France and Germany even do not constitute the whole of Europe, [color=red]there are physical incidents or verbal or spray painting anti Jewish slogans or chants or on others in Britain and in other European nations as well

if however there were reports coming out of Anti jewish hatred from every country in Europe, not every but its in other countries besides those twothen I'd be inclined to agree with this,but the overall picture I feel is getting blown out of proportion, I don’t think I blew it out of proportion (and perhaps other have), but I guess on this we will have to agree to disagree ;) I would think that refugees would be more susceptable to attacks,and I'm afraid the vast majority of them are Muslims,or Orthadox and also Gypsies......who also suffered the same persecution by the Nazi's as the Jews in the 30's,lets also remember that many European Nations harboured their Jewish friends at great personal risk from the nazi's during WW2 on your last point, yes that’s true but what’s even more true is that a much higher percentage (of euopean people) did not and in fact helped in acts against the Jews.


Shalom :D

[Pégase]

The truth is jews as a group are in a better protected from public opinion in many places. Remember the topic with the chinese workers. If that would have happened in Finland, Finland would have been under huge pressure and in a strict economic embargo.

Another aproach would be better. Bombing people with "antisemitism" all the time. And the xth time accusing people still being deep rooted antisemites. And in Sweden with that piece of "art" , was not necessary. Even if that was done by one individual. Or when someone critizises Israel for whatever reason , then responding right away with "antisemitism". That is something that not all have done ,but some.

The current way doesent reduce burning synagogues one bit. And those people dont have huge support, anywhere anyway. A more moderate aproach would be better imo.

yep, I agree with that
and it seems that this is unhappily spreading

[IDFM203]

. Or when someone critizises Israel for whatever reason , then responding right away with "antisemitism"..ok I knew it was only a matter of time before someone brought this up.(its typical already from those that try to counter any anti Jewish charges :roll: )

Listen fair criticism is always welcomed and no it’s not anti Semitism.

And yes there are those in Europe who while I might disagree with and feel they have it wrong on the facts, they are not anti Semitic nor do I or others accuse them of it.

However..

There are a lot of critics of the Jewish state from Europe that have in recent times, have taken their rhetoric and their false accusations to a level that has passed the "line" of fair and balanced criticism. The level of discourse and false accusations levied against the Jewish state is beyond mere fair criticism and it bellies an underlying bigotry that I feel was always there, just it was more in the closet before but after fifty years, its increasingly coming back out in the open again :(

I mean for example, tiny Israel is the number one threat to world peace according to a lot of Europeans :roll: …….no, there is a lot more then just fair criticism!!

Shalom :D

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

I just wonder what Rockwell Schnabel thought he was doing when he made that statement, was he playing too the gallery or maybe he plans to run for some office when he gets back to the US and might need funding. Rockwell Schnabel seems out of step with the State Department opinions as Edward O'Donnell the US state department's envoy on Holocaust affairs has stated that anti-semitic hate crimes in France peaked in 2002 and have been declining since.
The ADL had a survey on anti-semitism in France in 2002 and found that 10% of the French were strongly anti-semitic while in 2002 the ADL surveyed the US and found that 17% of US citizens held strong anti-semitic views. What is interesting was that most anti-semitic Europeans were older people and Muslims while in the US anti-semite's came from a broad spectrum of ages. Although there was a massive upsurge in anti-semitic hate crime in France in 2002 its interesting to know that in the same year the FBI logged 1039 hate crimes against Jews in the US and we are not talking about name calling here, these are actual attacks against Jewish institutions, property and persons.

[Sixgun Symphony]

I live in the UK and I can say that I've never seen anti-semitism occur, Asians bear the main brunt of racism here in Britain.

You should go travel to France. This is where most of the arsons and other anti-semitic attacks have occured.

BTW, Semites are asian.

[Haiw]

You should go travel to France. This is where most of the arsons and other anti-semitic attacks have occured.
Maybe you should travel to France and stop wasting precious oxygen on the kind of crap you produce on a regular basis.

[Sixgun Symphony]

You should go travel to France. This is where most of the arsons and other anti-semitic attacks have occured.
Maybe you should travel to France and stop wasting precious oxygen on the kind of crap you produce on a regular basis.

BTDT moved on. Personally, I liked Italy more.

[StarvingStudent47]

CNN: EU reports post-9/11 racism (http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/05/24/eu.violence/index.html)

CNN: Jewish leaders demand protection (http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/04/23/brussels.jews/index.html)

CNN: France facing anti-Semitic attacks (http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/04/04/french.antisemitism/index.html)

CNN: Italty's Jew's alarmed by rise in anti-Semitism (http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/italy/09/21/italy.antisemitism/index.html)

CNN: Vandals target Jewish symbols (http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/04/04/synagogues.attack/index.html)

[StarvingStudent47]

Yes, 600,000 Jews live in France. Not all have left yet. But MILLIONS of African-Americans lived in the American South during the worst years of Jim Crow segregation and racist violence. Does this mean that they weren't oppressed and weren't victims of violence? The entire argument "French Jews haven't left, so they must be treated well" is bogus.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Roger Cukierman head of the Crif, France's largest Jewish organization put the exodus of French Jews in perspective, the number of immigrants from France to Israel has increased from 1,000 to 2,000 people, but out of a community of 600,000 people it is really not significant. Roger Cukierman also said"There is a saying 'happy like a Jew in France' and I think it is still valid."

[IDFM203]

Roger Cukierman also said"There is a saying 'happy like a Jew in France' and I think it is still valid." :roll: wow that must be ONLY Roger's statement, for I never ever heard anything like that (and I do know lots of french Jews there)!!

wow that was funny ;)

Perhaps its with Jews in the U.S. but not in france (even if its not as bad as some of us think it is)

Shalom :D

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

I will take Roger's word as he is the head of Crif and does represent a large proportion of French Jews, there is no doubt that anti-semitic attacks in France were out of control in 2002 but have declined in numbers there is no comparison to the 1930's and there has been no Reichskristallnacht. My greatest concern is that many of the accusations of anti-semitism in Europe have come from the US media who for the last 18 month have been on an anti-euro crusade of sorts. What many of these US media outlets have failed to publish is that most of the people caught for the attacks on Jewish institutions were young unemployed Muslim men.

Some comments by US journalists " In Europe it is not a safe place to be a Jew" Charles Krauthammer in the Washington Post.

"today's anti-semitism among Europeans and Arabs has become the second-and final? - phase of the struggle for a final solution to the Jewish problem" George Will in the Washington Post.

[Parzival]

Is a bigger chance that the US get a facist leader then Europe.

[IDFM203]

I will take Roger's word as he is the head of Crif and does represent a large proportion of French Jews, Actually as head of a organization I would not….as him living there its his job to be diplomatic and to not “ruffle feathers” so to speak in public.

Of course he says that…….

That is in stark contrast to what I hear from French Jews that I know living there!!


there is no doubt that anti-semitic attacks in France were out of control in 2002 but have declined in numbers there is no comparison to the 1930's and there has been no Reichskristallnacht. yes like I said its not the 1930’s (yet ;) :( ) but it is at a alarming level nonetheless and its defiantly on the rise publicly as compared to ten years ago.

Shalom :D

[radon]

Im not in a good position to judge if the France with a growing antisemitism is ture, so I wont even try. But I ask especially jews in this forum. Why does that happen? Where does this all come from? And i mean antisemitism (anti-jewism)

[Haiw]

BTDT moved on. Personally, I liked Italy more.
I suppose the KKK hat must have blocked your view then? A three-year-old starving Ethiopean has a better educated view of France...

[cut]

United Kingdom 300,000 jews

and yet both the leader of the opposition and the foreign office secretary are jewish, last time I checked the UK is in Europe and for an ethnic minority that makes up about 1/200 that's pretty good representation, much better than in america.

[marktigger]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/02/15/njew15.xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/02/15/ixportal.html

from todays Snday Telegraph. the forces of anti-semitism in the UK the extreme right (combat 18) and raical islamasists....What a combination

[gilgoul]

Read this article written by a Jew in a Jewish magazine about "so-called anti-semitism".


[

– Ran HaCohen


Hey, so you got your "good jew" who can confirm to you that nothings happens, everything is some kind of paranoia.
So i`ll tell you, cause the daily antisemitisme thing, I lived it for 27 years, before i finally decided to fullfill my dream and my right, become an Israeli, living on my land, and trying to raise a familly that might still suffer fromm antisemitism, violently, but at least not being dicriminated against, called a paranoiac, not have to hear why and how "jews control the world" everytime they go to have a drink at the next door bar.
Ad oh no i`m not of those " communautarists" so despised by the french culture, my grand father, immigrant from Poland, signed up in the foreign legion and fought the Nazis in 1940, he died later in Auschwittz, his brother , who went to the USA before the war came back trhu Italy as a platoon comander in Pattons army, My dad fought Algeria war as a outpost commander in Grande kabylie, got injured twice and has a citation.
Not that my family his a bunch of "gun ho" or militarists, far from that.
They just though they had to fulfill their duty to the best to the country that welcomed them, despite the betrayal of Vichy regime, that send no less than 18 family members to the crematories of Nazi death camps, despite the flight from Algeria that send the other half of the family in a refugee status and situation "de facto".
So why people so dedicated to France and their life there would think of leaving?
Why are young and qualified french jews emigrating to Israel, Canada and the USA?
Do you really think it`s from "paranoia"?
If I can, i`ll just contribute an element of answer.

Europe is not necesarily antisemitic, but it `s at best indiferent.
I left france, where I had a more than correct carrer development and opportunities in great part because of a serie of events that started in october 2000.
A demonstration the week end following the death of muhammad al dura (the 12 october), place de la Republique in Paris, 10 000 young muslims and supoporters carrying the yaLLOW FLAG OF HIZBULLAH, the green one of Hamas, chanting "death to the jew" , no one to stop them, not a cop to fire a tear gaz grenade, once again, a disgrace and a betrayal of the jewish population of france.
The daily examples, when my parents car is tagged, when my elatives shop is almost burned, when my synagogue (and i m no religious ) is violated and prayers sprayed and pelted whith rotten eggs and tear gaz after the office.
When my sister s harrassed, my neighboors robbed and their appartement sprayed with paint saying "next stop, the oven, kikes".
Then, the constant and oh so easy denial of my national rights as a people, from left to right, the anisemitic language is so free, so "in" that you can hear it everywhere.
The worst insult you can throw to a kid nowaday in belleville or st denis is to call him " juif" (jew), but this is not antisemitic you`ll tell me, just some kids joking.
I m talking about a feeling of abandon by the "europeans" toward the jewish population there.
I m talking about the feeling of once again being sacrificed in order to appease the beast, 60 years ago, the Nazis, today the Integrists islamists who are slowly but surely changin the caracter and demography of europe.
Does it mean that the jews should support the extreme right wing?
God forbid, but by ignoring the problem of mass immigration for too long, by being too "politically correct" and refusing to point the finger on the problem of those antisemitic , racists, expansionnists, misoginists and conquering islamists, Europe and france in particular is once again feeding the beast, and worst than everything, betraying those of her sons coming from the immigration, who loved their new country, served it, sometimes died for it, or simply did everything possible to become part of it, lawfuly, rightfully and with honor.

[IDFM203]

Phenomenal post there gilgul!!!

There isn’t much more I can add!!

Its great to have you here rather then me saying from what I know of my French friends living there now (and some of them contemplating leaving :( )

Just curious, I know all about the past few years and how the situation is, but what I always wondered about was how the French Jews felt after 1967 when France “surrendered” to the Arabs and abandoned Israel solely for the Arabs.

What was it like for Jews then living there and since?

Shalom :D

[marktigger]

gilgoul you have my sympathies and I am not surprised the PC lobby seem to have a blind spot when it comes to the plight of Jews across Europe and in France there has been a long recent history of attacks.

The article in the sunday Telegraph I found interesting in the groups named as responsible for attacks on Jews in the UK. Combat 18 a right wing racist group and muslim radicals. Combat 18 are preparing for a Race war and I wouls have though Muslim radicals would have been more their prefered target. I find it disgusting that this is still happening to day in Europe. In western society Racism should not be tolerated and Just because it is one ethnic minority picking on another does not mean it should be ignored.

[Whistler]

Great post gilgoul.

Sad story :( .

Hope everything works out for you in Israel.

[StarvingStudent47]

Awesome post Gilgoul.

[Dennis79]

Read this article written by a Jew in a Jewish magazine about "so-called anti-semitism".


September 29, 2003 - Abusing 'Anti-Semitism' by Ran HaCohen



Great article.

[Dennis79]

"Europe is not necesarily antisemitic, but it `s at best indiferent.
I left france, where I had a more than correct carrer development and opportunities in great part because of a serie of events that started in october 2000.
A demonstration the week end following the death of muhammad al dura (the 12 october), place de la Republique in Paris, 10 000 young muslims and supoporters carrying the yaLLOW FLAG OF HIZBULLAH, the green one of Hamas, chanting "death to the jew" , no one to stop them, not a cop to fire a tear gaz grenade, once again, a disgrace and a betrayal of the jewish population of france."

It's a free country that values freedom of speech.The reason the cops didn't stop them is because it's their civil right to say anything they want.I can understand you are angry about them screaing "death to the jew" ,but it's not illegal,unless they use violence to back it up.

"The daily examples, when my parents car is tagged, when my elatives shop is almost burned, when my synagogue (and i m no religious ) is violated and prayers sprayed and pelted whith rotten eggs and tear gaz after the office.
When my sister s harrassed, my neighboors robbed and their appartement sprayed with paint saying "next stop, the oven, kikes".
Then, the constant and oh so easy denial of my national rights as a people, from left to right, the anisemitic language is so free, so "in" that you can hear it everywhere.
The worst insult you can throw to a kid nowaday in belleville or st denis is to call him " juif" (jew), but this is not antisemitic you`ll tell me, just some kids joking."

I did some of these things myself during my teenage years,not to jews because their are none where i live,but to whites blacks muslims,you name it.I burned the Dutch flag during the national holiday,called blacks ******s,muslims sand******s.If there were jews around i would have probably spray painted synagogs with swatstikas.Does that make me a racist or a anti-semite.Hell no,i was just a street punk with to much time on my hands and not enough money in my pockets that liked to **** around with people.Point is,i was "joking" around in my own naive,immature way and i grew out of it,and those kids probably will to.

"I m talking about a feeling of abandon by the "europeans" toward the jewish population there.
I m talking about the feeling of once again being sacrificed in order to appease the beast, 60 years ago, the Nazis, today the Integrists islamists who are slowly but surely changin the caracter and demography of europe.
Does it mean that the jews should support the extreme right wing?
God forbid, but by ignoring the problem of mass immigration for too long, by being too "politically correct" and refusing to point the finger on the problem of those antisemitic , racists, expansionnists, misoginists and conquering islamists, Europe and france in particular is once again feeding the beast, and worst than everything, betraying those of her sons coming from the immigration, who loved their new country, served it, sometimes died for it, or simply did everything possible to become part of it, lawfuly, rightfully and with honor."[/quote]

Pick a number and wait in line.Most Europeans feel abandont by their goverments regarding the muslims

[Tommy Gunn]

Bump!

This needs to be moved to the top.

[StarvingStudent47]

Hey, so you got your "good jew" who can confirm to you that nothings happens, everything is some kind of paranoia.


Just to re-emphasize this point. This tactic of getting a "good Jew" to say that there's no anti-Semitism and that Jews are the root of world problems is not new. But that doesn't mean that this one token self-loathing Jew is correct.

To prove my point: At the turn of the century, an African-American named Booker T Washington claimed that African-Americans brought lynchings upon themselves because they were attempting to achieve higher education and political equality. He blamed Blacks for anti-Black violence. In not so many words, he said that Blacks brought lynchings upon themselves by not keeping to their place. White segregationists loved him, and held up his rhetoric as moral vindication of the KKK's agenda. Booker T Washington even opposed racial integration of society, saying that blacks and whites should be united like a hand, but separate like the fingers.

Likewise, if you searched hard enough, you could find a woman who says "a woman's place is barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen." Doesn't mean that's correct, even if you find one token woman to say it.

Ran HaCohen is a Jewish Booker T Washington. No more, no less. F--- him. I don't really feel like "staying in my place."

[aFgHaNibOi]

That's just one thing that gets to me. Anti-Semitism.

For all the people who don't know how WRONG this statement is, let me fill you in on something. Semites are a 'classification' of two peoples: the Arabs, and the Jews [like uh let's see, Cacausians, etc.].

Arabs and Jews are BLOOD, they are related and the same blood runs in both of their veins. It is really sad to see how much they fight each other :(, even though both of them have the same "father" [Abraham].

Back to my point, if you call someone an "Anti-Semite" or if someone says something anti-Jewish, that doesn't make them an Anti-Semite, and their remark is NOT an Anti-Semitism remark. Same thing if the situation is reversed with Arabs on the recieving end. To make an Anti-Semitism remark, one would have to say something about both of these people. You can't be an Anti-Semite because you "hate Jews" yet you love Arabs, and you can't be an Anti-Semite when you "hate Arabs" while loving Jews, it doesn't work that way. Then, you'd be like a 'half Anti-Semite'. :|

That's what always gets me whenever I hear this. :cantbeli:

[aFgHaNibOi]

I hope some people got it now. :roll:

[StarvingStudent47]

AfghanBoi-- Let go of the dictionary definition game. Just mentally replace the term "anti-Semitic" with "Jew-hater." So the term "anti-Semitic" isn't 100% accurate. So what. Neither is "homophobic." Technically, that means someone who is AFRAID of gays. But it's used for people who HATE gays.

They're just words. Quibbling endlessly about the exact dictionary definion of the word "anti-Semitic" changes nothing in the end.

[aFgHaNibOi]

AfghanBoi-- Let go of the dictionary definition game. Just mentally replace the term "anti-Semitic" with "Jew-hater." So the term "anti-Semitic" isn't 100% accurate. So what. Neither is "homophobic." Technically, that means someone who is AFRAID of gays. But it's used for people who HATE gays.

They're just words. Quibbling endlessly about the exact dictionary definion of the word "anti-Semitic" changes nothing in the end.

O.K. man, I just wanted to make sure that people knew what they were saying. But thanks for that reference. ;)

[aFgHaNibOi]

:roll:

I think it's safe to say in continental Europe, anti-semitism, is about as rife as anti-islamic sentiment in the US.

Did you know that even in 2001, the year of the WTC attacks (and the backlashes that followed), anti-Jewish hatecrimes outnumbered anti-Muslim hatecrimes TWO TO ONE in the United States? That's from official FBI statistics. That's both total numbers and per capita--Muslim and Jewish populations in the USA are roughly the same size. And according to French police statistics, hate crimes against Jews were nearly 40 times more common in France than in the USA.

So if you do the math, it's not "as bad," it's 80 times worse.

Several French synagogues have been torched or bombed in the past year alone. Find me a SINGLE incident of a mosque being torched or bombed in the USA since 9/11/01. I won't hold my breath.

I originally dug up all these facts about six months ago, but I didn't have the foresight to save the links. The FBI and French Police hate crimes statistics are public information though, so I'm sure google will lead you to them. Then just figure out per-capita hate crimes rates using the Muslim and Jewish population sizes of the USA and France, and you'll see my numbers are correct.

I wonder why I hadn't heard of this before, well I mean in the news it wasn't mentioned. :|

But there was an incident in Seattle. I could look for some stuff on it if you want.

[stephane from Paris]

Sad story Gilgol BUT a story that several hundreds of thousand frenchs (european origins ones) could says!
For myself:
I lived 25years in a hot town close to Paris where i was par of THE MINORITHY!
I had several problems with arabs due to my celt origin and the fact that i never shut my month! At 15 years old i was attack in the street by 4 young arabs and if i save my jacket i loosed a tooth in the fight!
I had several fight for save my wear, my motorcycle, my honnor!
Later my car was damaged twice , same for the car of my parents! Their wall received paint bombing.

How many french who lives in towns with a strong arab community never heard insults like "francecouille, gaulois, face de craie..."!!!
During the last 20 years people who said that the non stop immigration of muslims will give us a big problem of respect of communities were called racists or facist!!!!
Every time we saw politicals and specially from your community (Pres. Mitterand married with a jew woman, prime minister Fabius, importants ministers like Straus khan, julien Dray...) we saw TVshowmen , journalists ands news paper directors, every time they said that muslims are a chance for us and if we have problems it's our fault!!!
But since the second intifada, arabs (controlled by integrists and under mid east sat TV influence) open their eyes on the community who blindly support israel politics and now european origin people aren't the only ennemy for a part of arab community!!! They hate USA too because they knows that jewish community is important here (defense state secretary: Kissinger/Madeleine Albright/William Cohen/Rumfeld??? or Wolfowitz)!
Your leaders have a part of responsibility on the current situation, and finaly the law that try to exclude these religious/community problems outside of school is a first step to ended it!
Find a solution for a peace between israelis and palestinians and antisemics will desapears!!! btw the problem for europeans french will be still the same!

If religion never existed we became far more happy in the World!

[marktigger]

Part of the problem is immigrants wanting to impose their values and standards on the Native population. There have been similar problems in the UK. And the same wringing handed politicians and social commentators blame the native population for the trouble.
I was always lead to believe the Koran said that a muslim in a non muslim country was to follow the laws of that country. and that Islam along with Judaism and christianity were religons of tolerence where has that gone?

As the Prime minister of the UK said 'we are all children of Abrham' so why isn't this message getting across?

[Argyll]

When did George Bush say that Mark? ;)

[fantassin]

In 2002 there was an increas of over 100% in the amount of Jews who emigrated to Israel from France in comparison to 2001, doesn't that say something?

and 1/3rd already came back to France, while 250,000 israeli tourists visit France every year.

Doesn't that say something?

[S'13]

In 2002 there was an increas of over 100% in the amount of Jews who emigrated to Israel from France in comparison to 2001, doesn't that say something?

and 1/3rd already came back to France.

Doesn't that say something?

And 2/3 decided to stay...

The numbers I brought only reflect on the years 2001-2002, and that's only with the emigration to Israel (not including Jews emigrated to the U.S and Canada), so one must assume that the number of Jews who emigrated from France to Israel and other countries has grown.

[Dennis79]

Hey, so you got your "good jew" who can confirm to you that nothings happens, everything is some kind of paranoia.


Just to re-emphasize this point. This tactic of getting a "good Jew" to say that there's no anti-Semitism and that Jews are the root of world problems is not new. But that doesn't mean that this one token self-loathing Jew is correct.

To prove my point: At the turn of the century, an African-American named Booker T Washington claimed that African-Americans brought lynchings upon themselves because they were attempting to achieve higher education and political equality. He blamed Blacks for anti-Black violence. In not so many words, he said that Blacks brought lynchings upon themselves by not keeping to their place. White segregationists loved him, and held up his rhetoric as moral vindication of the KKK's agenda. Booker T Washington even opposed racial integration of society, saying that blacks and whites should be united like a hand, but separate like the fingers.

Likewise, if you searched hard enough, you could find a woman who says "a woman's place is barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen." Doesn't mean that's correct, even if you find one token woman to say it.

Ran HaCohen is a Jewish Booker T Washington. No more, no less. F--- him. I don't really feel like "staying in my place."

You really can't compare Booker T washington and the situation the blacks were in at that time with Ran Hacohen and the situation the jews are in now.Nowhere in his article has Hacohen stated that jews brought anti-semitism upon themselves or that jews should segregate themselves from the rest of society.And the jews right now are NOT being dicriminated like the blacks were at the turn of the century.So you really haven't proven anything.

BTW,is this statement of HaCohen correct:

in the entire course of Jewish history, since the Babylonian Exile in the 6th century BC, there has never been an era blessed with less anti-semitism than ours. There has never been a better time for Jews to live in than our own.