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flecha

04-18-2006, 06:29 PM

Some photos of the Frigates the S A Navy had before they switched to Strike Craft

SAS President Pretorius6088

SAS President Kruger6089

SAS President Steyn6090

SAS President Steyn is sunk by gunfire after being scrapped6091

flecha

04-18-2006, 06:36 PM

6094SAS Tafelberg refuelling SAS President Pretorius

6093SAS Tafelberg's bow after she rammed and sunk the SAS President Kruger

sa_bushwar

04-20-2006, 02:50 PM

More pictures from my webpage...

BeetleCrusher

04-25-2006, 05:45 PM

Vlermuis FAV. I think Vlermuis is afrikaan for bat.

Now called the Wasp... being sold by BAE Land Systems
http://www.baesystemsomc.co.za/Default.aspx?tabid=646

Nordwind

05-21-2006, 09:33 PM

Here's some South African troops overseeing an election in the small island nation of The Comoros.
http://www.countryreports.org/maps/Comoros/cn-area.gif

http://img41.imagevenue.com/loc246/th_57573_46.jpg (http://img41.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc246&image=57573_46.jpg)

http://img126.imagevenue.com/loc285/th_57577_47.jpg (http://img126.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc285&image=57577_47.jpg)

http://img147.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_57582_48.jpg (http://img147.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=57582_48.jpg)

http://img145.imagevenue.com/loc299/th_57586_49.jpg (http://img145.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc299&image=57586_49.jpg)

http://img127.imagevenue.com/loc55/th_57592_50.jpg (http://img127.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc55&image=57592_50.jpg)

http://img150.imagevenue.com/loc167/th_57597_51.jpg (http://img150.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc167&image=57597_51.jpg)

http://img146.imagevenue.com/loc256/th_57602_52.jpg (http://img146.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc256&image=57602_52.jpg)

http://img11.imagevenue.com/loc129/th_57606_53.jpg (http://img11.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc129&image=57606_53.jpg)

http://img18.imagevenue.com/loc293/th_57611_54.jpg (http://img18.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc293&image=57611_54.jpg)

http://img15.imagevenue.com/loc283/th_57616_55.jpg (http://img15.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc283&image=57616_55.jpg)

http://img46.imagevenue.com/loc229/th_57869_56.jpg (http://img46.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc229&image=57869_56.jpg)

http://img152.imagevenue.com/loc56/th_57874_57.jpg (http://img152.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc56&image=57874_57.jpg)

http://img40.imagevenue.com/loc294/th_57878_58.jpg (http://img40.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc294&image=57878_58.jpg)

Gatling

05-22-2006, 12:14 AM

Great pics , good discussion , good on you South Africans.

Nordwind

05-22-2006, 01:03 AM

Great pics , good discussion , good on you South Africans.
Thanks man! Could anybody identify this chopper? It kinda looks like an Indian ALH but I'm not sure if it is. Thanks in advance.

http://img11.imagevenue.com/loc129/th_57606_53.jpg (http://img11.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc129&image=57606_53.jpg)

BeetleCrusher

05-22-2006, 02:35 AM

Thanks man! Could anybody identify this chopper? It kinda looks like an Indian ALH but I'm not sure if it is. Thanks in advance.

http://img11.imagevenue.com/loc129/th_57606_53.jpg (http://img11.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc129&image=57606_53.jpg)

BK117, ex BOP defence force chopper, primarily built by Kawazaki. Made famous by the rescue of victims of the Mozambique floods a few years ago. From 15 Sqdn Durban.

Wamba

05-22-2006, 06:07 AM

Hey guys is the "32 Battalion" still active and what happend to the KOVOET? I was with these guys in the border (Ovamboland) back in the mid 80's.
Haven't heard anything from them in many years.

Nordwind

05-22-2006, 12:31 PM

BK117, ex BOP defence force chopper, primarily built by Kawazaki. Made famous by the rescue of victims of the Mozambique floods a few years ago. From 15 Sqdn Durban.
Thanks alot!

Hey guys is the "32 Battalion" still active and what happend to the KOVOET? I was with these guys in the border (Ovamboland) back in the mid 80's.
Haven't heard anything from them in many years.
Koevoet was disbanded in 89 I believe and the 32 Battalion was disbanded in 93.

BeetleCrusher

05-22-2006, 02:26 PM

Thanks alot!

Koevoet was disbanded in 89 I believe and the 32 Battalion was disbanded in 93.

For more info on 32 go to;

http://www.32battalion.net/

as well as a cool dedication site run by somone I have seen here. No names no packdrill. :-)

http://flecha.co.uk/

playtym

05-22-2006, 08:56 PM

I agree with you. They've got one of those Olifant ARVs at the War Museum here in Joburg.

Here is the vehicle from the Military Museum in Jhb to which you refer.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/MilitaryMuseumJhb-01.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/MilitaryMuseumJhb-02.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/MilitaryMuseumJhb-03.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/MilitaryMuseumJhb-04.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/MilitaryMuseumJhb-05.jpg

And another from the Armour Museum in Pta.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/ArmourMuseumPta-01.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/ArmourMuseumPta-02.jpg

I definately agree that that is the vehicle on the transporter.

If you look at the caption on the page from where the original photo came you'll see that it's listed as an "ARV in disguise."

http://uk.geocities.com/sasolboy/abens30.html

I found this when I Googled "SPAAM"

dataspace Forum -> Laat dit Rym! (http://dataspace.co.za/forum/index.php?showtopic=70&mode=linear&view=findpost&p=2070) Post # 45. ~ R ! D1 ~ Who else ? Group : Members Posts : 1271 Joined : 10 - March 05 From : Slaap Stad Member No . : 21. Spaam ( afringlish for spam ) 8O ...
dataspace.co.za/forum/index.php?showtopic=70& mode=linear&view=findpost&p=2070 - 99k - Supplemental Result -

I recon somebody's born the brunt of a little deception here! For whatever reason this ARV was done up to look like a SAM system.

The Ystervark (20mm cannon on a Samil 20 chassis) was the only mobile air defence weapon that we ever operated with.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/Ystervark-01.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/Ystervark-02.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/Ystervark-03.jpg

baboon6

05-22-2006, 09:49 PM

Those two vehicles are not the same. One (the first) is an engineer vehicle based on a Centurion, the other an ARV based on Comet. Note the first vehicle has six roadwheels on each side while the second one has five.

Wamba

05-23-2006, 12:31 AM

For more info on 32 go to;

http://www.32battalion.net/

as well as a cool dedication site run by somone I have seen here. No names no packdrill. :-)

http://flecha.co.uk/

Thanks for the info and the pics guys. They were awesome people and Great Fighters. Much Respect.

BeetleCrusher

05-23-2006, 02:36 AM

And another from the Armour Museum in Pta.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/ArmourMuseumPta-01.jpg

Ahem... Bloemfontein... not Pretoria. :-)
Nice pics of the Ystervark by the way, one can clearly see the V hull.

playtym

05-23-2006, 03:36 AM

Gees guys, I'm pretty embarrassed about this one.

Yes Beetlecrusher, you're right - it is in Bloemfontein. My bad. I should have been asleep about 2 hours before I posted those pics - maybe I was!?!. Thanks for the correction.

Thanks for the info Baboon6. I didn't even know they were based on a different chassis, I just assumed they were the same. Now that you point it out I clearly see the difference between the two. We worked with Olifants, which probably had some of these in tow, I didn't see any though before I went to those two museums. I mostly know about Infantry equipment. I just like to take photos of tanks, planes etc. but as you can see that doesn't make me an expert.

Do you think I'm right about the original picture of the disguised ARV though?

baboon6

05-23-2006, 10:22 AM

playtym

05-23-2006, 03:25 PM

Here you go Baboon6. These were taken with my old 2.1 mega-pixel Fuji Finepix. I've just bought an 8 mega-pixel Sony Cybershot, but haven't had the chance to take any pics yet.

These were all taken at the Armour Museum in Bloemfontein.

What's this thing called Baboon6? Just "an ARV" or does it have a proper name?
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/ArmourMuseumBfn-03.jpg

Eland 60 with mortar removed.
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/Eland-60.jpg

Eland 90
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/Eland-90.jpg

playtym

05-23-2006, 03:30 PM

Rooikat

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/Rooikat_01_of_05.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/Rooikat_02_of_05.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/Rooikat_03_of_05.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/Rooikat_04_of_05.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/Rooikat_05_of_05.jpg

baboon6

05-23-2006, 04:05 PM

Playtym, I've never seen that vehicle referred to as anything but a "Comet armoured repair vehicle". How many were converted I don't know; there are still a few examples of Comet tanks in SA, the Military Museum has one.

Nice 1SSB badge on that Rooikat.

playtym

05-23-2006, 04:24 PM

Olifant

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/2002_0810_142517AA.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/2002_0810_142437AA.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/2002_0810_142258AA.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/2002_0810_142800AA.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/2002_0810_142634AA.jpg

playtym

05-23-2006, 04:55 PM

Here are some pics of a Comet at the Natal Mounted Rifles HQ in Durban.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/DSCF0037.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/DSCF0037a.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/DSCF0041.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/DSCF0043.jpg

playtym

05-23-2006, 05:34 PM

I think is the Tank Technology Demonstrator, developed by Reumech OMC. I found it hidden away at the armour museum.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/Oliphant_TTD_01_of_03.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/Oliphant_TTD_03_of_03.jpg

Here are two more pictures from http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/rsa/ttd-pics.htm

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/ttd-pic1.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/ttd-pic2.jpg

Nordwind

05-23-2006, 07:51 PM

Very nice photos Playtym! The TTD looks good, does anybody know if it will ever be used by the SANDF?

playtym

05-24-2006, 11:13 AM

Very nice photos Playtym! The TTD looks good, does anybody know if it will ever be used by the SANDF?

I found this article on http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/rsa/ttd.htm

Tank Technology Demonstrator [TTD]
The Olifant is due for replacement by a new generation main battle tank system from the year 2009. The 1998 Defence Review indicated the replacement of the present inventory of 224 Olifant Mk1A/1B tanks by 154 new-generation tanks from 2009. But this number has already been reduced to 108 (94 tanks, eight armoured recovery vehicles and four bridge laying tanks).

South Africa has a requirement for between 95 and 108 MBTs, and as of 1998 had short listed Vickers and the French GIAT concern as final bidders. Vickers Defence Systems campaign proposed the Challenger 2E MBT in the later phase of South Africa's Defence spending program. This order would represent new business worth approximately £600 million for the company GIAT is offering its Leclerc MBT, is the first Western MBT to be deployed with an automatic loader, and a crew of only three.

The Tank Technology Demonstrator, developed by Reumech OMC [South Africa's major military vehicle manufacturer], is basically a tank awaiting funds. Reunert is the largest South African arms manufacturer after Denel. Most of the design work has been completed, but SANDF simply doesn’t have the money to produce or acquire any new tanks. This program has been shelved indefinitely.

Reumech's lightly-armoured 58.3 ton Tank Technology Demonstrator (TTD) comes with a V-8 twin turbo charged inter-cooled diesel, delivering 920 kW @ 2100 rpm. Its armour gives frontal protection against unspecified MBT rounds and can withstand 23mm fire or 155mm air bursts elsewhere. The tank's subsystems include Avitronics' laser warning systems for combat vehicles, AMS's meteorological sensors and mechanical actuators, and Reutech's own series of fire control systems, and gun control systems.

The Olifant tank turret is a state-of-the-art main battle tank turret, featuring Hunter-killer, Fire-on-the-move and Thermal-imaging capabilities. Main armament can be either the LIW GT-7 105mm, or a LIW proprietary 120mm smooth-bore tank gun. The Olifant Mk1B turret utilises technologies developed on the Tank Technology Demonstrator program. The turret basket and ring-gear are fully compatible with application on the Centurion or Chieftan main battle tank platforms, making this turret suitable for upgrading these tanks.

The Gunner is equipped with a periscopic stabilised day/thermal sight incorporating laser-rangefinder, while the commander has an independant panoramic stabilised day/night sight. A full solution fire control system with automatic sensors for meteorological parameters and dynamic tilt, together with a precision gun drive system, result in devastating accuracy even on the move.

Protection for the 3-man crew is offered by means of the modular add-on-armour packages. A turret bustle mounted ammunition carousel is suitable for the storage of kinetic ammunition. Crew protection from ammunition ignition is by virtue of blow-off panels on the turret deck. Ready rounds are located along the turret-basket side permitting a comfortable rate of fire of 10 rounds per minute. The turret is controlled by the Turret Management System, which coordinates the operation of the turret sub-systems, providing simple interfacing for future sub-systems (such as an automatic defensive-aides-suite).

Nordwind

05-24-2006, 09:12 PM

Good read, thanks. I wouldnt mind seeing either the Leclerc or Challenger 2 in the hands of the SANDF. Did the French or Brits ever have serious complaints about their respective tanks?

sa_bushwar

05-30-2006, 05:06 AM

Does anybody know anything about the vehicles in these pictures. Are they to replace the Ratel, Eland and Buffel?

www.geocities.com/sa_bushwar

ElHombre

05-30-2006, 05:08 PM

they look like experimental versions that never got off the drawing board.

playtym

05-30-2006, 06:34 PM

Does anybody know anything about the vehicles in these pictures. Are they to replace the Ratel, Eland and Buffel?

Where'd you get those pics from? Post the link.

Here are some test-bed vehicles from the Armour Museum in Bloemfontein.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/SADF%20Test%20Bed%20Vehicles/Bosbok_Proto-type_01_of_06.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/SADF%20Test%20Bed%20Vehicles/Bosbok_Proto-type_02_of_06.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/SADF%20Test%20Bed%20Vehicles/Bosbok_Proto-type_03_of_06.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/SADF%20Test%20Bed%20Vehicles/Bosbok_Proto-type_04_of_06.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/SADF%20Test%20Bed%20Vehicles/Bosbok_Proto-type_05_of_06.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/SADF%20Test%20Bed%20Vehicles/Bosbok_Proto-type_06_of_06.jpg

playtym

05-30-2006, 06:36 PM

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/SADF%20Test%20Bed%20Vehicles/Test_Bed_8x8_Concept_1_01_of_05.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/SADF%20Test%20Bed%20Vehicles/Test_Bed_8x8_Concept_1_02_of_05.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/SADF%20Test%20Bed%20Vehicles/Test_Bed_8x8_Concept_1_03_of_05.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/SADF%20Test%20Bed%20Vehicles/Test_Bed_8x8_Concept_1_04_of_05.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/SADF%20Test%20Bed%20Vehicles/Test_Bed_8x8_Concept_1_05_of_05.jpg

playtym

05-30-2006, 06:37 PM

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/SADF%20Test%20Bed%20Vehicles/Test_Bed_8x8_Concept_2_01_of_04.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/SADF%20Test%20Bed%20Vehicles/Test_Bed_8x8_Concept_2_02_of_04.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/SADF%20Test%20Bed%20Vehicles/Test_Bed_8x8_Concept_2_03_of_04.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/SADF%20Test%20Bed%20Vehicles/Test_Bed_8x8_Concept_2_04_of_04.jpg

playtym

05-30-2006, 06:39 PM

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/SADF%20Test%20Bed%20Vehicles/Test_Bed_8x8_Concept_3_01_of_06.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/SADF%20Test%20Bed%20Vehicles/Test_Bed_8x8_Concept_3_02_of_06.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/SADF%20Test%20Bed%20Vehicles/Test_Bed_8x8_Concept_3_03_of_06.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/SADF%20Test%20Bed%20Vehicles/Test_Bed_8x8_Concept_3_04_of_06.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/SADF%20Test%20Bed%20Vehicles/Test_Bed_8x8_Concept_3_05_of_06.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/SADF%20Test%20Bed%20Vehicles/Test_Bed_8x8_Concept_3_06_of_06.jpg

baboon6

05-30-2006, 08:01 PM

Does anybody know anything about the vehicles in these pictures. Are they to replace the Ratel, Eland and Buffel?

www.geocities.com/sa_bushwar

Don't know what they are. I do know the Eland and Buffel are already out of service, having been replaced by the Rooikat and Mamba respectively.

Dark Avenger

05-31-2006, 04:44 AM

The Bosbok looks exactly like the Panhard M3 APC. Is it possible that the SA purchased the M3 for use as a testbed, or was it manufactured there like the Eland series? And the 8x8 concepts seem to have the exact same turret (1&3, as #2 is turretless). Anyway, all pics are amazing.

baboon6

05-31-2006, 04:54 AM

The Bosbok looks exactly like the Panhard M3 APC. Is it possible that the SA purchased the M3 for use as a testbed, or was it manufactured there like the Eland series? Anyway, all pics are amazing.

Yes I thought so to. It must have been fairly easy to copy the M3, if that indeed was what happened, since it uses a lot of AML components. AFAIK SA didn't buy any, we had Saracens in those days (60s-70s).

The 8-wheelers are clearly predecessors of the Rooikat.

Dark Avenger

05-31-2006, 05:03 AM

Does anybody know anything about the vehicles in these pictures. Are they to replace the Ratel, Eland and Buffel?

www.geocities.com/sa_bushwar

Shouldn't the last one read something like "Ratel C (?) 8x8 Kobra"? Were these built, or were they just paper projects?

Dark Avenger

05-31-2006, 05:05 AM

Yes I thought so to. It must have been fairly easy to copy the M3, if that indeed was what happened, since it uses a lot of AML components. AFAIK SA didn't buy any, we had Saracens in those days (60s-70s).

The 8-wheelers are clearly predecessors of the Rooikat.
Did the SANDF modify the Saracen in any way, or did they use them in stock configuration? Also can you post SANDF Saracen pics please?

Ironsight06

05-31-2006, 06:03 AM

Did the SANDF modify the Saracen in any way, or did they use them in stock configuration? Also can you post SANDF Saracen pics please?
I read somewhere that after the Ratel was introduced some of the Saracen's were modernised and placed in second-line duties. I have no idea in what way they were modernised.

@playtym
Your pics on the previous pages don't show up to me. Bandwith exceeded. Can you upload them to Imageshack?

Ironsight06

05-31-2006, 06:45 AM

Does anybody know anything about the vehicles in these pictures. Are they to replace the Ratel, Eland and Buffel?

www.geocities.com/sa_bushwar (http://www.geocities.com/sa_bushwar) Those look like the MC-90 concept. Here's some info from Jane's Defence:

Mechem MC-90 Armoured Car
Development: Design work on the MC-90 concept demonstrator armoured car commenced in mid-1993 by Mecham Consultants, the specialised research and development arm of Denel. To reduce procurement and life cycle costs the MC-90 armoured car uses proven components of the German Unimog (4 x 4) vehicle which is used by many countries for a wide range of civil and military roles. The MC-90 is fitted with the complete turret of the Eland 90 mm (4 x 4) armoured car covered in the previous entry which ... Don't have any more info because I don't have a full subscription to Jane's.

baboon6

05-31-2006, 07:09 AM

Did the SANDF modify the Saracen in any way, or did they use them in stock configuration? Also can you post SANDF Saracen pics please?

Saracens were used as supplied by the UK in the 1950s, no modifications I know of. They were never deployed to the operational area and by the late 70s most were in storage. They were refurbished (electrics, brakes, cooling systems) in the late 1980s and may have seen some service in internal security tasks. Later some (minus their turrets) were sold to private security companies- I remember seeing one or two around Joburg a few years ago. Unfortunately i don't have any photos on my computer, will look for some or scan.

One interesting modification the SADF did have was the Ferret Mk1 mounting a 106mm recoilless rifle- somebody posted a pic in an earlier SA thread. These were used by 44 Parachute Bde in the 80s- don't know if they saw any action.

playtym

05-31-2006, 03:01 PM

GECKO 8X8 ATV RAPID DEPLOYMENT LOGISTICAL VEHICLE

This has been around a while (the original tender was in 2001), but I haven't seen it posted here before. My apologies if I missed it and this is a repost.

The Gecko 8x8 ATV Rapid Deployment Logistical Vehicle (RDLV) is used by the Parachute Regiment and Special Forces Brigade of the South African National Defence Force. More than a hundred of these highly mobile vehicle systems are in service as rapid deployment logistical vehicles to transport personnel, equipment and heavy weapon systems from drop and landing zones to firing positions during airborne and special forces operations.

GECKO 8x8 ATV SPECIAL FORCES / PARATROOP VEHICLE
The Gecko RDLV is based on the automotive components of the Argo Centaur 8x8, manufactured by Ontario Drive and Gear, Canada, but adapted in South Africa by LMT Products to comply with the requirements of the South African National Defence Force. Typical modifications include a militarized top structure, weapon mounts, storage space, 12V/24V electrical system, communication harnesses and a strengthened lower structure to conform with air delivery and helicopter lift requirements. The vehicle also provides protection to the vehicle occupants against the detonation of 200g of TNT below any of the wheels.
Both the vehicle and the trailer have been qualified for air delivery from a C-130 (PLEDS and internal load) and helicopter transport.

CARGO, WEAPONS AND C2 TRAILERS
A family of trailers is in service that been developed by LMT Products, consisting of a general cargo trailer, heavy weapons trailer and command and control trailer. The C2 trailer includes all the command and control equipment as required to effectively command and control at least a battalion sized airborne operation.
Logistic support for the system has been fully developed to international standards (e.g. MIL-STD-1388-2B and DEF-STAN-0060). Technical manuals and training packages for operators and workshops are available in hard copy or IETM format.

ENGINE, CLUTCH, TRANSMISSION AND DRIVE
The Gecko's engine is a Daihatsu DM950T, three-cylinder in-line water-cooled turbo charged 950cc diesel engine, with a maximum output of 26kW @ 3,600r/min, 79Nm @ 2,400r/min. Its Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) has integrated dual differentials:

High ratio: 11.5:1
Low ratio and reverse: 30.2:1RC60 roller chains form transmission to 8mm x 40mm diameter axles with a fully adjustable tensioner for each drive chain.
Geckos have a 12V electrical system, (24V system also available) with NATO slave plug.

STEERING, TYRES AND BRAKES
Geckos are equipped with a hydrostatic skid steer system with steering wheel. Braking is via foot pedal operated hydraulic disc brakes and hand operated mechanical parking brake. The tyres are Goodyear Rawhide III AT25 x 11.50 – 9 NHS. Provision is made to carry two spare tyres. Inflation is through an electrical compressor with standard pneumatic outlet and tyre inflation hose.

STRUCTURE
The Gecko's structure is formed by a powder-coated, tubular steel, welded construction chassis frame with a vacuum formed lower hull and hull skid plate manufactured from high density polyethylene.

DIMENSIONS

Length: 3,112mm
Width: 1,647mm
Height: 1,443mm
Ground clearance: 200mm in centre of vehicle body
Approach angle: 57°
Departure angle: 43°PERFORMANCE CHARACTERISTICS (FULLY LADEN WITH TRAILER)

Speed: 18km/h (low range), 45km/h high range
Gradient (full load) without trailer: 60%
Gradient (full load) with trailer (full load): 40%
Dynamic side slope @ 10km/h: 40%
Ditch crossing: 600mm
Vertical step: 300mm
Mean Maximum Pressure (MMP): 127kPa
Ambient temperature for continuous maximum power: 47°C
Drawbar pull: 1,000kg
Carrying capacity: 900kg
Fuel capacity and range: 50-litres, 250km
Turning circle: 3m
Fully amphibious (basic vehicle with 230kg), can be improved using airbags
Shipping weight: 1,225kg complete

Some pictures:

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/3100/1crayford2vn.jpg

http://img417.imageshack.us/img417/4773/2crayford2wy.jpg

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1662/3crayford5mf.jpg

http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/1341/4crayford9pk.jpg

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/7259/5crayford8sx.jpg

http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/504/gallery183da.jpg

http://img309.imageshack.us/img309/2808/gallery171di.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5510/gallery127vo.jpg

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/8159/gallery112uq.jpg

http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/3216/gallery109ew.jpg

http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/558/gallery099rs.jpg

http://img305.imageshack.us/img305/1082/gallery087ix.jpg

http://img173.imageshack.us/img173/4807/gallery079cy.jpg

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/8392/gallery062rf.jpg

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/3501/gallery036mg.jpg

http://img305.imageshack.us/img305/5258/gallery042ie.jpg

http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/942/gallery028jo.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5903/gallery050qx.jpg

http://img430.imageshack.us/img430/4452/gallery018oz.jpg

http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/4166/gallery141yo.jpg

http://img311.imageshack.us/img311/1164/gallery151xz.jpg

Some videos:

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/Gecko/th_Movie1.jpg (http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/Gecko/?action=view&current=Movie1.flv)

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/Gecko/th_Movie2.jpg (http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/Gecko/?action=view&current=Movie2.flv)

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/Gecko/th_Movie3.jpg (http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/Gecko/?action=view&current=Movie3.flv)

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/Gecko/th_Movie4.jpg (http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/Gecko/?action=view&current=Movie4.flv)

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/Gecko/th_Movie5.jpg (http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/playtym2/Gecko/?action=view&current=Movie5.flv)

Nordwind

05-31-2006, 07:18 PM

Great info pictures and videos! Shame there was no sound but oh well, was still nice anyway. Playtym, you wouldn't have any pictures or videos of SANDF infantry, Parabats or Recces would you? They seem to be hard as hell to find anything worthwhile. Thanks.

playtym

06-02-2006, 06:20 AM

Playtym, you wouldn't have any pictures or videos of SANDF infantry, Parabats or Recces would you? They seem to be hard as hell to find anything worthwhile. Thanks.

I think you're always going to struggle with finding decent pictures from the border war period. We were not permitted to have cameras, but did "smuggle" them along when possible. I assume this rule applied to all units throughout the SADF. The pictures we did take were usually taken covertly so as not to be discovered. Also back then we didn't have the fancy digital cameras like the ones every US soldier can now buy at the PX in Iraq. I had one of those little Kodak jobs that folded over on itself - not the best for taking pictures of anything. I've got some photos somewhere that I'll try and dig up and scan. I'll also see what I can scrounge up from mates - it might take a while though.

Here are some I've found on the net. Not really what you're looking for I don't think, but you may enjoy anyway.

Buffel
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/2688/wbuffel7xq.jpg

Kwevoel 100's
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/4504/war88ov.jpg

RPG-7 (arsing around with airbursts by the looks of it - the recoil's not that bad!!)
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4153/war74sx.jpg

More Kwevoel 100's
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1719/war128qe.jpg

Buffels passing a landmine victim
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/4894/wagteros2do.jpg

Samil 50's, 20's Kwevoel 100's and a Mamba
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8355/dhvec10aa.jpg

Mambas and Samil 50's
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9449/dhvec22cp.jpg

C-160
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/9596/c160z21ya.jpg

Ratel-20 (it's there - way in the background on this first one!)
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/5097/army0284ec.jpg
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1382/ratel7vc.jpg
Command Ratel
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/6987/251712im.jpg

South African ingenuity
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/6745/elandload7cg.jpg

Kwevoel 50 recovery vehicle
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2120/eenhana4aw.jpg

Convoy
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9831/convoy6er.jpg

Ops medic
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2165/milit4c7qj.jpg

Jakals
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7499/strand5wq.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/9522/jakals3gn.jpg

Puma (Oryx?)
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/7928/oryx0sj.jpg

Casspir
http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/8716/casper6cb.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/66/basebg9rc.jpg
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4701/landmine12dr.jpg
Looks like this one's taken at the cut-line between SWA and Angola.
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4049/kaplinebg9ky.jpg

Rooikat
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/4785/lmt105liwam140ek.jpg
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/821/rooik067nw.jpg

I don't know if you've seen these before, but check out these links.

SA Special Forces League - http://www.recce.co.za/ I found these pictures there.

Recce Wallpaper
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/8415/wallpaper5h1xw.jpg

ZU-23-2 (looks like it's at the old whaling station on the Bluff in Durban - being fired out to sea)
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/4453/recce012mi.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/sadfbook/index.html

http://www.geocities.com/sadfbook/bgtoc.htm

http://home.mweb.co.za/sa/savimbi/imagesof.htm

Somewhere I also have a couple of videos from the late 80's with news footage etc. of the border war. I'll see if I can convert that to digital and upload sometime.

Wamba

06-02-2006, 09:57 AM

Thanks for the pics Playtym! Those Casspirs bring back lots of memories...

playtym

06-02-2006, 12:59 PM

Thanks for the pics Playtym! Those Casspirs bring back lots of memories...

Not a South African Casspir... anymore... it's a reconditioned Casspir that was sold on to the Idian Army.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/5982/05114nb.jpg

Clint_Durban

06-02-2006, 01:06 PM

Thanks for the pics Playtym! Those Casspirs bring back lots of memories...

Want to see some footage of a Caspir being thrown at some cops?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1185812222812358837

Wamba

06-02-2006, 04:27 PM

Want to see some footage of a Caspir being thrown at some cops?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1185812222812358837

Bloody aliens mate! They shouldn't treat a Casspir like that!!!

Nice vid!, Thanks.

I guess this video is made by the same guy that made the "robocop" one that is on this forum somewhere. Right?

playtym

06-02-2006, 07:21 PM

Thanks for the pics Playtym! Those Casspirs bring back lots of memories...

Here are a couple more for you.

Casspir MK II
http://img314.imageshack.us/img314/8379/casspirmkii023st.jpg
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/7288/casspirmkii019np.jpg

Casspir MK II B
http://img302.imageshack.us/img302/4092/casspirmkiib6pg.jpg

Blesbok
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/65/blesbok0gb.jpg

Duiker
http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/6297/duiker4vk.jpg

Gemsbok
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/889/gemsbok0sz.jpg

Casspir MK II from the SAP museum in Jhb (Clint will find this more familiar)
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6052/casspir013pk.jpg
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/40/casspir030or.jpg
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/4726/casspir044sm.jpg
http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/6509/casspir058lx.jpg
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/2604/casspir061da.jpg
http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/716/casspir072fm.jpg

Wamba

06-02-2006, 08:52 PM

Thanks a lot!!!

Nordwind

06-03-2006, 12:43 AM

Excellent photos Playtym, I couldnt ask for more! Thanks!

playtym

06-04-2006, 04:28 AM

I bought a new book yesterday called, 'An Unpopular War.'

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7866/17700730191gz.jpg

It's a collection of troopies memories put together in sort of a chronological fashion describing national service as each one experienced it, starting with registering for national service, the train ride to the unit you'd been posted to etc. - or 'from afkak to bosbef*k,' as the cover reads.

I started reading it last night and it's pretty good. Anyone who served in the SADF will be able to identify with these guys and their experiences.

I don't want to ruin the read for those that will get it, but to give you an idea of what to expect - and because I think this one is SO damn funny, here's an example.

'They've changed it back now, but in 1980 the legislation was that you had to have a licence for an air gun, a pellet gun. I went down to Parkview Police Station with my father to get one and was told I was too young. I was 17. My father had to apply for it. When I got to the army and they were issuing rifles, I said I wasn't yet 18 and was not allowed to have one. The corporal gave me a slap on the ear and said, 'Troep, vat die f*kkin' geweer!' [Troop, take the f*ckin' rifle!] - Paul, age 17'

That for me was one of the strangest things - you've been trained to operate an R4, LMG, Patmor, RPG etc. and can drive a Ratel but you're too young to vote or drive a car on a public road by yourself.

Exclusive Books, CNA etc should all have it, but here's the kalahari link - http://www.kalahari.net/bk/product.asp?sku=29708427&showlargeimage=1&toolbar=none

PILMAN

06-04-2006, 04:57 AM

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2165/milit4c7qj.jpg

South Africa uses galils?

Ironsight06

06-04-2006, 08:06 AM

South Africa uses galils?
No, the R-4. A copy of the Galil.

playtym

06-04-2006, 01:42 PM

South Africa uses galils?

As Ironsight06 said, no. We bought some from Isreal, but then locally manufactured what became known as the R-4:
http://img416.imageshack.us/img416/9342/r48by.jpg
the R-5:
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/7582/r56pn.jpg
and the R-6:
http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/3304/r60il.jpg

The version shown in the photograph (used by the medics) was the R-5.

I did see some rifles that I assumed to be Galil's as they had wooden forends - they could have been local versions fitted with wooden forends though.

I believe we also developed an R-7, which was a heavy barrelled squad support weapon and an R-8, which was the R-4 with an R-5 handguard as it didn't have the integral bipod. I never saw either of these two weapons deployed though.

PILMAN

06-04-2006, 04:33 PM

Oh wow that's neat. I am Jewish and noticed immediately I was thinking "whoa Israel shipped those to other countries?" I heard rumours Columbia has the license for galils but never knew South Africa used them too (well manufactured their own), that's neat though keeping the legacy alive of a great rifle :) .

thatguy96

06-05-2006, 12:29 AM

baboon6

06-05-2006, 01:01 AM

According to Heitman's "South African Arms and Armour":

R1= FN FAL
R2= folding-stock "Para" variant
R3= semi-auto only variant

thatguy96

06-05-2006, 01:06 AM

Alright then, so there's more information. I can't remember where I even heard the G3 thing these days either. I've largely discounted it.

However, Ed Ezell's Small Arms Today, 2nd Ed, has the R3 as the Para variant. Of course that book's quite old now.

Ironsight06

06-05-2006, 05:31 AM

Alright then, so there's more information. I can't remember where I even heard the G3 thing these days either. I've largely discounted it. The G3's were just called G3's in South African service.

Wasn't the R3 meant especially for service in the police and prisons?

playtym

06-06-2006, 03:44 AM

Just as a note, the easiest way to spy (although not in that picture) an R4/R5 from a Galil AR/SAR is the stock, which is longer on the guns produced in South Africa.

Playtym do you have any aditional info on the R7/R8?

Also, I have heard some conflicting information about what the first the R rifles are as well, that maybe you can clear up.

I don't know where this story came from but I have also heard it from loads of people. They say that the R1 was the full size rifle, the G-3 was the R2 and the short FN-FAL with folding stock (as used by the police) was the R3. They also assume this was the same rifle issued to the parabats.

Based on what I know, I'd say Baboon6 nailed it with his response.

The R1 was the full length rifle with synthetic stock and flash hider.
The R2 was the same full length rifle only with a folding stock for parabat use.
The R3 was the same as the R1 except with the auto sear removed and the lower receiver pinned so the selector would only move between safe and semi. This was issued to commando units and tiffies etc.

As far as I know the short barrelled versions used by the police were converted after production - according to a police armourer I know.

And as Ironsight06 said, the G3 was just called the G3, and mostly used by the airforce as far as I know.

I would say that our R1's were metric rather than inch pattern rifles as we initially received FAL's from FN in Belgium. These were wooden stocked rifles without flash hiders. The bayonet had two ****gs on it above the blade that combined with the blade to act as a three ****g flash hider when fitted to the rifle. These rifles were maked Fabrique National with the coat of arms of the Republic of South Africa stamped on the lower receiver. As far as I know these rifles all ended up with the navy at the end of the day.

I'll have to dig up the article regarding the R7 & R8. It may take a few days, but I'll post it once I've found it.

The Galil has the same aluminium folding stock as fitted to the para versions of the FN-FAL whereas the R4 uses a longer synthetic stock. The rational behind this was that our average troopie is taller than an Isreali. I'm 6'3" and the synthetic stock is too long for me! I remember everyone trying to scrounge aliminium stocks off the armourers to put on their R4's, and the first thing I did when I bought my civvie legal LM-5 was to scrounge an aluminium stock for it.

baboon6

06-06-2006, 12:08 PM

thatguy96

06-06-2006, 12:49 PM

Thanks for the information. Would it be possible to get this pdf from you?

baboon6

06-06-2006, 01:23 PM

sure, pm me your e-mail address

playtym

06-06-2006, 04:29 PM

A lot of G3s were also given to the armies of the "TBVC" states- the "independent" homelands of Transkei, Bophuthatswana, Venda and Ciskei. Quite a few of them weren't returned...I've got an interesting PDF which details the arms missing when the armouries of the TBVC states were consolidated with those of the SANDF, as well as well as arms which have gone missing since 1994.

I remember doing a camp once, and being tasked with escorting witnesses to Umbumbulu court for a case where they'd discovered a weapons cache. We were driving along in the duty car when I passed a local walking down the road with a G3 slung over his shoulder. As I was only armed with a Star BM at the time, and my purpose was to protect the witnesses not encite the locals, I didn't stop to find out who he was or why he had the rifle. It was odd to see that though.

playtym

06-06-2006, 07:42 PM

This slays me, but here are some pics taken by the Cubans of our equipment either captured or destroyed in Angola. I don't know if the dates and other info are accurate, but I have listed them as shown by the Cubans.

An Olifant destroyed and captured in Cuito Cuanavale in February or March 1988.
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6779/olifant22bw.jpg

A Cuban soldier examining an Olifant trapped in one of the minefields around Cuito Cuanavale during the attack on 23 March 1988.
http://img433.imageshack.us/img433/1841/olifant17td.jpg

Cuban soldiers pictured with a captured Olifant. The vehicle was apparently virtually intact, with most of it's munitions and was moved to the Cuban HQ in Cuito Cuanavale under it's own power.
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/3696/olifant31nd.jpg

The Cuban General Leopoldo Cintra Frias cannot hide his satisfaction after test driving the captured Olifant.
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/9012/olifantfrias0fo.jpg

Vehicles abandoned by Bravo Company, 101 Battalion on 4 May 1988.
http://img286.imageshack.us/img286/5573/casspir4ds.jpg
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/8636/angcuito38yq.jpg

Destoyed or damaged Eland armoured cars abandoned during Operation Savannah, March 1976.
http://img309.imageshack.us/img309/1563/aml16ds.jpg
http://img435.imageshack.us/img435/7012/aml24cl.jpg
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/9734/aml36qr.jpg
http://img430.imageshack.us/img430/8897/aml42xh.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4576/aml58bm.jpg

Cuban T-55's in Angola.
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/4391/tant55ang4vq.jpg

Cuban T-62's in Angola.
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/1047/tant6229cx.jpg
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/7089/tant6234tn.jpg

Cuban SA-13 SAM at Cuito Cuanavale.
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/5050/angc105uk.jpg

ElHombre

06-07-2006, 12:58 AM

interesting. i didn't know that y'all lost any olifants. it never seems that many took part in the fighting to begin with.

Ironsight06

06-07-2006, 03:50 AM

interesting. i didn't know that y'all lost any olifants. it never seems that many took part in the fighting to begin with.
Olifants only took part in Operation Hooper IIRC. About 3 Olifants got stuck in a minefield near Cuito Canavale and were abandoned in the rush of the retreat from Angola. The Olifants were one of the few vehicles lost in the battle.

Dark Avenger

06-07-2006, 05:37 AM

[QUOTE=playtym]Vehicles abandoned by Bravo Company, 101 Battalion on 4 May 1988.
http://img286.imageshack.us/img286/5573/casspir4ds.jpg
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/8636/angcuito38yq.jpgQUOTE]

It looks like the Casspir has a really big gun, certainly not a 7,62mm one. An ex-aircraft 20mm Hispano maybe? Comments?
Also the truck with the armored box and the fifty cal below it, what type is it? Unimog perhaps?
Great post Playtym!

playtym

06-07-2006, 06:02 AM

It looks like the Casspir has a really big gun, certainly not a 7,62mm one. An ex-aircraft 20mm Hispano maybe? Comments?
Also the truck with the armored box and the fifty cal below it, what type is it? Unimog perhaps?
Great post Playtym!

Correct on both counts. Both Koevoet and 101 used to beef up their Casspirs (and Wolf Turbo's) with 20mm Hispano's and 14.5mm ZPU's.

Dark Avenger

06-07-2006, 06:08 AM

Both Koevoet and 101 used to beef up their Casspirs (and Wolf Turbo's) with 20mm Hispano's and 14.5mm ZPU's.
Wow! Good to know. Any more pics of these by any chance? Especially the ZPU part?

playtym

06-08-2006, 05:12 PM

Here are a couple of scans I was testing with, and some other pics I came across - the quality's not the best though I'm afraid.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/3144/sadfvalkyrie024rx.jpg

http://img423.imageshack.us/img423/7256/sadfvalkyrie011aj.jpg

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7800/g6liwar029fp.jpg

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6375/g6liwar038aj.jpg

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/3256/g61tw6eu.jpg

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/4756/sadfg61gi.jpg

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/4161/sadfbuffel018qy.jpg

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/9181/sadfbuffel024fh.jpg

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/9150/g5liwar042vz.jpg

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/8287/g5liwar056re.jpg

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5755/valkirisomc022hx.jpg

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/6622/valkirisomc039me.jpg

http://img436.imageshack.us/img436/3316/sadfratel90015la.jpg

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/2096/sadfratel60015dg.jpg

http://img430.imageshack.us/img430/4632/sadfratel20024hc.jpg

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/4317/sadfratel20045mn.jpg

haze99

06-14-2006, 01:13 PM

I don't recall who, but thanks for the correction on my SADF & SANDF mix-up. Great post from the SA bunch here! Much appreciated!
**As for Casspir vehicles, I see some went to Namibia!
What happened to the SWAPO? Were they destroyed in the bush land? Or did they take over power in Windheok?

Peiper_76

06-14-2006, 04:06 PM

Great posts playtym!

playtym

06-14-2006, 05:46 PM

What happened to the SWAPO? Were they destroyed in the bush land? Or did they take over power in Windheok?

Have a look at the CURRICULUM VITAE of the PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF NAMIBIA His Excellency Hifikepunye Pohamba on the official government website - http://www.grnnet.gov.na/Government/Our_President/President_CV.htm - that will give you a good idea of what happened - it pretty much says it all!

Also from their website, these brief histories of the conflict:
http://www.grnnet.gov.na/Nam_Nutshell/History/SWA.htm
http://www.grnnet.gov.na/Nam_Nutshell/History/Independence.htm

They even declared the 4th of May a national holiday - Cassinga Day - to commemorate the SADF parabat attack on the town of Cassinga on 4 May 1978!

playtym

06-15-2006, 11:47 AM

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3732/casspir019bh.jpg

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5760/chopper5wo.jpg

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/9814/choppers5pw.jpg

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/5586/fastrope3qa.jpg

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/7682/parade0rz.jpg

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8936/ratels011ps.jpg

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/1634/ratels023jp.jpg

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/923/ratels031xi.jpg

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/6305/ratels041ve.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9288/rooikat2tx.jpg

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6636/specops5sg.jpg

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/9972/troops019on.jpg

baboon6

06-15-2006, 12:53 PM

MG3s on the Special Forces vehicle (Vlermuis)?

playtym

06-15-2006, 01:48 PM

MG3s on the Special Forces vehicle (Vlermuis)?

Yup! Somewhere I've got a picture from the front of the vehicle - there's three of them mounted on there side-by-side! I'll see if I can dig it up and scan it.

Multiuser

06-15-2006, 03:25 PM

Aich seeing the Casspir always gives me a sections of an adrenaline rush. The Riot Unit will never be the same again without those monsters.:)

thatguy96

06-15-2006, 03:33 PM

Yup! Somewhere I've got a picture from the front of the vehicle - there's three of them mounted on there side-by-side! I'll see if I can dig it up and scan it.
I thought the standard mounting on this vehicle was a twin MG4 (M1919) setup? Has that been replaced by this triple MG3 setup?

XTC

06-15-2006, 04:09 PM

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/2360/014qq.png

playtym

06-15-2006, 04:31 PM

I thought the standard mounting on this vehicle was a twin MG4 (M1919) setup? Has that been replaced by this triple MG3 setup?

I have no idea - I've also seen them with the twin MG4 setup. You can't tell whether this vehicle has a single MG3 or multiple MG3's mounted from that angle. As I've said to Baboon6, I'm not an expert on this stuff - I just have a picture with a setup like that - which I'll post if I can find it. It might be the new configeration, or it may have just been a once off thing.

Ruledbyjames

06-15-2006, 04:40 PM

Does SA have a big homemade arms industry?
Great pics, especially the buggy!!

BeetleCrusher

06-15-2006, 05:07 PM

I have no idea - I've also seen them with the twin MG4 setup. You can't tell whether this vehicle has a single MG3 or multiple MG3's mounted from that angle. As I've said to Baboon6, I'm not an expert on this stuff - I just have a picture with a setup like that - which I'll post if I can find it. It might be the new configeration, or it may have just been a once off thing.

Are you sure they are MG3's or MG4's... as far as I know the SANDF used the FN-MAG?

thatguy96

06-15-2006, 05:31 PM

The pictures I saw of these vehicles in Ivory Coast (maybe Sierra Leon or Liberia, with so many pictures, its hard sometimes to remember which) were definitly M1919 type weapons.

playtym

06-15-2006, 05:33 PM

Are you sure they are MG3's or MG4's... as far as I know the SANDF used the FN-MAG?

The SADF did use the FN-MAG, but we also had/have a machine-gun that we called the MG4, but it will probably be better known as the Browning Model 1919 machine-gun in the rest of the world.

http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/4725/browningm1919a4soldier19493el.jpg

See this link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_Model_1919_machine_gun - and look down towards the bottom. They refer to the MG4 manufactured in South Africa.

MG4: South African licence-built version of the M1919A4 in current use with the South African National Defence Forces (SANDF). Manufactured by Lyttleton Engineering, Pretoria.

We used/use it as a co-axial machine-gun on armoured vehicles, mounted on top of vehicles in the anti-aircraft role and used in a twin mount on vehicles such as the Buffel, Casspir and Vlermuis. See the pics below:

http://img436.imageshack.us/img436/3316/sadfratel90015la.jpg

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/7976/koevoetmg48kx.jpg

In this case though I'm positive that the weapon mounted on this Vlermuis is an MG3.

Dark Avenger

06-16-2006, 04:14 AM

It is a twin MG-3 setup, but it also carries an M1919/MG4 poking out the windshield at the co-driver's position. There are other pics in this thread that show the arrangement to advantage...

BeetleCrusher

06-16-2006, 04:38 AM

The SADF did use the FN-MAG, but we also had/have a machine-gun that we called the MG4, but it will probably be better known as the Browning Model 1919 machine-gun in the rest of the world.
is an MG3.

OK, thanks... now I learned something... not one of the instructors I had in '72 ever refered to it as the MG4... we called it a Browning. :-)

playtym

06-16-2006, 05:15 AM

OK, thanks... now I learned something... not one of the instructors I had in '72 ever refered to it as the MG4... we called it a Browning. :-)

Don't worry, we all called it the 7.62 BMG as well. It was only years later reading the book South African Arms & Armour by Helmoed-Romer Heitman that I discovered it was actually called the MG4.

I've found a pic showing the triple mount I was referring to, but they have FN-MAG's mounted. I'm still trying to remember where the other pic I referred to with the MG3's is though.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4138/acx0du.jpg

Looking back through this thread I also discovered a few of my pics (including the Vlermuis) were reposts. Norwind had already put them up in March. :oops:

reccelite

06-16-2006, 06:30 AM

baboon6

06-16-2006, 07:03 AM

I am new, I am from Spain. That wonderful country almost extiguished.....

First congratulations for the Topic, very good one.

Second, my question is: is the Ratel still in service??

best regards

reccelite

Yes the Ratel is still the standard vehicle for mechanised infantry battalions in the SA Army

reccelite

06-16-2006, 07:14 AM

Yes the Ratel is still the standard vehicle for mechanised infantry battalions in the SA Army

OK thanks!!!! I think it's a wonderful vehicle but nothing more than an armoured truck.

Do someone know how many armoured regiments has de SA Army?.

Best regards

reccelite

baboon6

06-16-2006, 07:17 AM

Does SA have a big homemade arms industry?
Great pics, especially the buggy!!

Pretty much every weapon or vehicle you've seen on this thread, with the exception of tracked vehicles, was built in SA. Most are of local design, some (like the R4/R5 rifle or Eland armoured car ) were produced under licence.

Multiuser

06-16-2006, 07:19 AM

OK thanks!!!! I think it's a wonderful vehicle but nothing more than an armoured truck.

reccelite

The Ratel is a range of 6x6 infantry combat vehicles which has been truly tested in battle and has shown itself to be a most cost-effective system in terms of both operational purpose and cost. In its primary role the Ratel is fitted with a 20 mm or 90 mm gun. Variants include an armoured command vehicle, equipped with a 12,7 mm machine gun or a 20 mm gun, a missile launcher, a 60 mm and 81 mm mortar as well as logistic and recovery vehicles.

reccelite

06-16-2006, 07:24 AM

The Ratel is a range of 6x6 infantry combat vehicles which has been truly tested in battle and has shown itself to be a most cost-effective system in terms of both operational purpose and cost. In its primary role the Ratel is fitted with a 20 mm or 90 mm gun. Variants include an armoured command vehicle, equipped with a 12,7 mm machine gun or a 20 mm gun, a missile launcher, a 60 mm and 81 mm mortar as well as logistic and recovery vehicles.

I agree it has proven its "battleworthiness" but it's not perfect. I know that the south a frican army wanted to replace it by a new vehicle. Initially a derivative of the Rooikat but now it is more likely a variant of the french VBCI. Could some one confirm this??

Best regards

reccelite

Dark Avenger

06-16-2006, 07:49 AM

Certainly the Ratel has been around for some time now, and there are new requirements that it cannot meet to the full. So far only Patria Vehicles from Finland have submitted an offer for the Ratel's replacementbased on their AMV. It will be called the Hoefyster in South Africa if adopted for service and equipped with a LIW LCT-35 turret. here are pics of the prototype-please forgive if double posts.
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/1866/patriaamvhoefyster010mw.th.jpg (http://img164.imageshack.us/my.php?image=patriaamvhoefyster010mw.jpg) http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/3032/patriaamvhoefyster022yy.th.jpg (http://img164.imageshack.us/my.php?image=patriaamvhoefyster022yy.jpg) http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6259/patriaamvhoefyster040sb.th.jpg (http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=patriaamvhoefyster040sb.jpg)

Nordwind

06-16-2006, 07:50 AM

Looking back through this thread I also discovered a few of my pics (including the Vlermuis) were reposts. Norwind had already put them up in March. :oops:

Don't worry my friend, you're a posting machine puting out great pictures and a wealth of information, keep it up and dont worry about reposting some pictures, it's not everybody who's gonna look through the entire thread.

Ironsight06

06-16-2006, 07:51 AM

I agree it has proven its "battleworthiness" but it's not perfect. I know that the south a frican army wanted to replace it by a new vehicle. Initially a derivative of the Rooikat but now it is more likely a variant of the french VBCI. Could some one confirm this??

Best regards

reccelite They will replace it with the Patria AMV:
http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/armoured/patria_vehicles2/

EDIT:
Dark Avenger beat me.

reccelite

06-16-2006, 07:53 AM

baboon6

06-16-2006, 08:34 AM

OK thanks!!!! I think it's a wonderful vehicle but nothing more than an armoured truck.

Do someone know how many armoured regiments has de SA Army?.

Best regards

reccelite

Armoured truck? That's an infantry fighting vehicle my boy. How many trucks carry 20mm cannon? There also variants with a 90mm gun (in the same turret as an Eland), ZT3 anti-tank missiles, an 81mm mortar carrier, a turreted 60mm mortar, and a command vehicle. Ratel-90s in Angola successfully took on T-55 tanks- how many trucks can do that?

Armoured regiments-SA Army
Full Time Force:
1 SA Tank Regiment (Olifant MBT)
1 Special Service Battalion (Rooikat recce vehicle)
Part Time Force:
Natal Mounted Rifles (Olifant)
Umvoti Mounted Rifles (Rooikat)
Light Horse Regiment (Rooikat)
Pretoria Regiment (Olifant)
Regiment Mooirivier (Rooikat)

Regiment President Steyn (Olifant)
Regiment Oranjerivier (Rooikat)

It must be said that the part-time regiments are nowhere near full strength in troops or vehicles. Each could maybe put a squadron in the field. All units, both full and part-time, are under severe financial restraints regarding maintenance and training.

pepepotamo

06-16-2006, 08:39 AM

Ironsight06

06-16-2006, 08:46 AM

Hello. I'm new in this phorum. I have to ask a question. Does anybody know anything about the Spanish designed Kynos Aljaba tank transporter, I think is called Cavallo in South Africa. Could you post any photos also?. Thanks a lot
Some Aljaba's are in service in South Africa. I believe I saw a picture of one outfitted as a support/repair vehicle but I don't think they are used as tank transporters.

playtym

06-16-2006, 01:48 PM

Does SA have a big homemade arms industry?
Great pics, especially the buggy!!

If I recall correctly it was in 1977 that the UN Security Council voted to adopt a resolution banning the sale of weapons TO South Africa.

Within ten years we had developed our local armaments industry to such an extent that in 1987 they had to pass another resolution - this time banning the purchase of weapons FROM South Africa.

Back in the day a major factor when buying South African (and Isreali) weapons was that you knew they had a proven track record, as they had been proven in actual combat situations. You weren't getting something that someone thought was a good idea - if it didn't perform we weren't using it.

Dark Avenger

06-16-2006, 01:55 PM

Dark Avenger beat me.
Sorry about that...But it seems that we were on the same wavelength, hehe.

Dark Avenger

06-16-2006, 01:58 PM

For me the question is Range, The ratel had an exceptionally great Range. What about the Patria??

Best regards

reccelite

If Patria was the only company to respond to a particularly demanding requirement, I think that they would have given thought to that as well.

spetsnaz

06-16-2006, 10:14 PM

http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0102/images/thspn108.jpg

http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0102/images/thspn109.jpg

Nordwind

06-16-2006, 10:19 PM

Nice pics! Especially the first one, he is a member of the STF if I'm not mistaken, not the army. But no difference, great picture none the less!

BiZ

06-18-2006, 12:20 AM

[QUOTE=corporal punishment][QUOTE=BiZ]As promised. South African Police Special Task Force.
Poor quality as they are screen grabs from and old news report I video taped on them a few years ago.

The "kill-house" & range shots are training, everything else are actual operations.

http://xs71.xs.to/pics/06106/STF4.JPG.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs71&d=06106&f=STF4.JPG)

does anyone have the video of this?

I've managed to 'rip' the video, or what I taped of it anyway.

How do I upload boys and girls?

TallGuy

06-18-2006, 12:22 AM

I've managed to 'rip' the video, or what I taped of it anyway.

How do I upload boys and girls?

youtube.com

Nordwind

06-18-2006, 12:40 AM

I've been waiting to see this for a long time, let us know when it's ready to go!

BiZ

06-18-2006, 12:45 AM

youtube.com

That requires me to sign up and share it with a bunch of asshats, and that, is not going to happen.

BiZ

06-18-2006, 01:18 AM

Tried saving it as 2 parts of 10Mb but the quality lose and sound is terrible.

Not sure I have the "mad skillz" in computers etc like the youngens here to get this bugger to work properly.

Keep you posted.

TallGuy

06-18-2006, 01:18 AM

That requires me to sign up and share it with a bunch of asshats, and that, is not going to happen. rapidshare.de, 100 Mb upload limit.

BiZ

06-18-2006, 01:25 AM

rapidshare.de, 100 Mb upload limit.

Cheers.

Will let you know when I've finished it and worked out how to put it up there. ;)

flecha

06-18-2006, 03:10 AM

Cheers.

Will let you know when I've finished it and worked out how to put it up there. ;)

get reacompressor from www.reasoft.com and use that to compress the images

BiZ

06-18-2006, 03:24 AM

Ironsight06

06-18-2006, 05:24 AM

Great video. Thanks a lot BiZ woot

flecha

06-18-2006, 06:43 AM

Some photos of Cuban Forces deployed in Angola during the bushwar From left to right

Cuban groundcrew
ZSU 23/4
Cuban RPG gunner
Ammo being unloaded in Luanda
Cuban sappers disarming a landmine

Ratel

06-18-2006, 07:01 AM

Nice one dude!

Leopaard

06-18-2006, 11:13 AM

What language do they official speak in the SA defence ? Is it Afrikaans or English ?

Ironsight06

06-18-2006, 11:22 AM

What language do they official speak in the SA defence ? Is it Afrikaans or English ?
In the SADF it was Arikaans but after apartheid it's English.

flecha

06-18-2006, 11:26 AM

What language do they official speak in the SA defence ? Is it Afrikaans or English ?
Prior to 1994 the official policy was that it was split 50/50 between Afrikaans and English,in practise it was more a case of 90/10 in favour of Afrikaans as the majority of the the population could understand Afrikaans.

Since the ANC came into power there has been a concerted drive to marginalise Afrikaans despite the fact that according to the much vaunted Constitution Afrikaans is supposed to be treated on an equal footing with the other official languages.

At present the lingua franca is English

playtym

06-18-2006, 02:23 PM

Prior to 1994 the official policy was that it was split 50/50 between Afrikaans and English,in practise it was more a case of 90/10 in favour of Afrikaans.

I once heard it said that the 50/50 split referred to was that the first 50 years were in English and the next 50 would be in Afrikaans. I Guess we just got there after the second 50 years had started!!

Bert

06-18-2006, 02:27 PM

Anyone got good hi-res photos of the Rooivalk?

playtym

06-18-2006, 02:59 PM

Anyone got good hi-res photos of the Rooivalk?

Try this site:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0657165&size=L&width=1152&height=780&sok=&photo_nr=&prev_id=&next_id=

Check the box down below the picture for more pictures of this aircraft.

flecha

06-18-2006, 03:16 PM

From left to right

Cuban Convoy
Armour being shipped to Mocamedes
Armour Landinf at Mocamedes
Apc's being shipped by rail
Cuban artillery strike at Cuito Cuanavale

muede

06-19-2006, 04:50 AM

After a lot of mucking about it's here.

Sunday program showing a UK doco on the SA Police Special Task Force about 10 years ago now, I missed the first few minutes but the rest is there so enjoy.

http://rapidshare.de/files/23375386/SA_Police_STF.wmv.html

Yes it's huge, because it goes for half an hour and the quality/audio loss on anything lower was unacceptable.
Anyu chance of you making a torront or something of the "original" the wmv coding effect at places quite much tear on the picture.

Anyways it was awsome, thanks.

reccelite

06-19-2006, 06:49 AM

Armoured truck? That's an infantry fighting vehicle my boy. How many trucks carry 20mm cannon? There also variants with a 90mm gun (in the same turret as an Eland), ZT3 anti-tank missiles, an 81mm mortar carrier, a turreted 60mm mortar, and a command vehicle. Ratel-90s in Angola successfully took on T-55 tanks- how many trucks can do that?

Armoured regiments-SA Army
Full Time Force:
1 SA Tank Regiment (Olifant MBT)
1 Special Service Battalion (Rooikat recce vehicle)
Part Time Force:
Natal Mounted Rifles (Olifant)
Umvoti Mounted Rifles (Rooikat)
Light Horse Regiment (Rooikat)
Pretoria Regiment (Olifant)
Regiment Mooirivier (Rooikat)

Regiment President Steyn (Olifant)
Regiment Oranjerivier (Rooikat)

It must be said that the part-time regiments are nowhere near full strength in troops or vehicles. Each could maybe put a squadron in the field. All units, both full and part-time, are under severe financial restraints regarding maintenance and training.

Hi, I hope the weekend was good for all of you.....

First Thanks a lot for the information regarding the armoured formations in the SA Army.

Second, the Ratel is little bite more than an armored truck, you only have to see the configuration of the vehicle. Even I read in a Magazine, a Spanish one, where the y had an interview whit a South African soldier and he said the same.He said the vehicle needed to be replaced because it was an Armoured truck and doesn't fit with the new operational requirements.

Third, How many Ratels are in service??? in what units???

Fourth, What is the bosbok??? Has somone a picture of this vehicle??

Thanks in advance

Best regards

reccelite

Best regards

BiZ

06-19-2006, 07:53 AM

Anyu chance of you making a torront or something of the "original" the wmv coding effect at places quite much tear on the picture.

Anyways it was awsome, thanks.

Mate it took me 50 years to work out how to rip the bugger, let alone turn it into a .mpeg and then figure out how to upload it. i have no idea what bit torrents are except that everyone here loves them. So there's zero chance I'd be able to figure it out and upload it as one or however it's done.

Keep in mind the tape as I said is about 10 years old so the quality was always going to be a little dodgy.

playtym

06-19-2006, 08:51 AM

Fourth, What is the bosbok??? Has somone a picture of this vehicle??

AM.3C Bosbok

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5708/bosbok9yn.jpg

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/151/526wc.jpg

BeetleCrusher

06-19-2006, 09:25 AM

There was also a mine protected bakkie (truck) called a bosbok as I recall...

AM.3C Bosbok

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5708/bosbok9yn.jpg

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/151/526wc.jpg

Hellfish

06-19-2006, 09:51 AM

Third, How many Ratels are in service??? in what units???

IIRC some 1200 Ratels were built. Some were sold to Jordan and Morrocco, a handful were lost in combat. I don't know which SANDF units remain from the SADF but I remember 61 and 62 Mech had good numbers as well as a couple of the SAI battalions and 32 Bn. I don't remember which PTF units had them.

baboon6

06-19-2006, 10:48 AM

playtym

06-19-2006, 12:01 PM

Since 61 Mech was disbanded last year, I would assume that 1 SA Infantry Battalion is the only full-time force unit using Ratels, since it is designated a mechanised unit. The other FTF infantry battalions are parachute(1), motorised (3) and light (9).

As for the part-time force, the only units I am sure are mechanised are the Transvaal Scottish, Cape Town Highlanders and Witwatersrand Rifles. Some others of the 17 reserve infantry units may be too. The comments I made regarding PTF armoured regiments apply equally to infantry battalions.

I know that 8 SAI was converted to a mechanised unit in 1989. I can't confirm whether they are still mechanised though, or what other full-time units, other than 1 SAI, are mechanised.

According to the IPMS SA website 4 SAI was also mechanised. See this link http://newsite.ipmssa.za.org/content/view/92/28/1/1/

The June 2004 SA Soldier magazine had an article about Regiment de la Rey.

Regiment de la Rey, named after General Koos de la Rey, is a traditional regiment that was established in 1934. The Unit has a magnificent history. It is one of only six mechanised units in the SANDF (Reserve Force).

So, according to the SA Soldier magazine there should be six mechanised reserve units including Regiment de la Rey.

I make the list so far to be:
1. Regiment de la Rey (confirmed by SA Soldier magazine)
2. Durban Light Infantry (my citizen force unit)
3. Transvaal Scottish (as per Baboon6 - and a Scotsman I work with - I've just asked him as this was his citizen force unit)
4. Cape Town Highlanders (as per Baboon6)
5. Witwatersrand Rifles (as per Baboon6)

Anyone got any idea who the sixth mechanised reserve unit is, or what other, if any, full-time mechanised units there are?

Hellfish

06-19-2006, 12:18 PM

playtym

06-19-2006, 12:34 PM

I'm not sure about that XXX thing, but the article is basically about members going on courses at 1 SAI - Mechanised Orientation Course, A Driver's Course and Gunnery and Signal Operator's Course.

All I can tell from that though is that they're training drivers and gunners for Ratels.

baboon6

06-19-2006, 02:01 PM

I was under the impression that all the "Regiment XXX" units were armored/cavalry type units, not infantry. It's possible that SA Soldier magazine meant mechanized as in they had vehicles as opposed to meaning mechanized infantry?

You're wrong. They would have said "armoured" in that case. It simply means that the unit (Regiment De la Rey for example) was originally an Afrikaans-oriented Citizen Force regiment, most of which were infantry. An English-speaking unit would have the word "Regiment" (if it was part of the unit's title) after the name. There are/were exceptions to this rule. My grandfather was in Regiment de la Rey in WW2. They were combined with the Witwatersrand Rifles to form an infantry battalion which served with the 6th SA Armoured Division in Italy. The unit was then known as WR/DLR or "Wits De la Rey".

Here is the orbat for 1940:

http://home.adelphia.net/~dryan67/orders/sa40.html

Additional Afrikaans-oriented CF units were formed after WW2, some of which have been disbanded or amalgamated since. Some units names have changed since then. Other units have changed roles.

playtym, according to that link of yours 4SAI became motorised infantry in 1997, which would leave 1SAI as the only full-time mechanised infantry.

Hellfish

06-19-2006, 02:04 PM

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

Dark Avenger

06-19-2006, 02:33 PM

AM.3C Bosbok

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5708/bosbok9yn.jpg

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/151/526wc.jpg

AFAIK the Bosbok could carry weapons, while its stablemate the Kudu was a liaison aircraft with a more capacious fuselage. Any pics of an armed Bosbok around?

playtym

06-19-2006, 03:30 PM

playtym, according to that link of yours 4SAI became motorised infantry in 1997, which would leave 1SAI as the only full-time mechanised infantry.

Well spotted. I didn't take the time to read the whole thing earlier.

Do you know if 8 SAI has also reverted back to motorised infantry or if they're still mechanised?

baboon6

06-19-2006, 05:07 PM

According to a PDF I have of the Defence Review 1998, 8 SAI were motorised, the only mechanised units were 61 Mech and 1 SAI.

Full listing SA Infantry Formation (Full Time force)-
61 Mech Inf Bn Group (gone?)
1 SAI Bn - Tempe
4 SAI Bn - Middelburg
6 SAI Bn - Grahamstown
5 SAI Bn - Ladysmith
7 SAI Bn - Phalaborwa
8 SAI Bn - Upington
9 SAI Bn - Eeersterivier
10 SAI Bn - Mmabatho
14 SAI Bn - Umtata
115 SAI Bn - Wonderboom/Wallmanstad
116 SAI Bn - Messina
118 SAI Bn - Ellisras
121 SAI Bn- Mtubatuba

I'm not sure if this is 100% accurate, it is based on that Defence Review, some issues of SA Soldier, and other stuff on the net. 3 SAI are not listed because they are now the army's basic training unit for all non-leader group personnel (leader group does basics at the SA Army Gymnasium). I've not listed the Parabats either. 61 Mech apparently was disbanded last year, 12 SAI (specialist infantry-motorcycles, horses, dog handlers, trackers) went a while back too. 1 SAI are mech infantry, the rest light or motorised.

According to the 2005/2008 Defence Strategic Plan, the infantry (Regular Force- new terminology) is to have 2 (?) mech, 10 light and 3 motorised battalions, with the Reserve Force having 6 mech, 10 light and 8 motorised. There are 1 full-time and 2 part-time parachute battalions, plus a pathfinder platoon.

Why such a large full-time infantry component? To me 6 properly-trained, properly-manned battalions would make a lot more sense than 14/15.

Hellfish

06-19-2006, 05:11 PM

Are the 100-series SAI Battalions legacy units from the old Zulu/Tribal battalions? And what are motorized units using? Just Samils or Casspirs/Mambas?

BeetleCrusher

06-19-2006, 05:21 PM

You need something for the horde of Generals to do...

According to a PDF I have of the Defence Review 1998, 8 SAI were motorised, the only mechanised units were 61 Mech and 1 SAI.

Full listing SA Infantry Formation (Full Time force)-
61 Mech Inf Bn Group (gone?)
1 SAI Bn - Tempe
4 SAI Bn - Middelburg
6 SAI Bn - Grahamstown
5 SAI Bn - Ladysmith
7 SAI Bn - Phalaborwa
8 SAI Bn - Upington
9 SAI Bn - Wynberg/Youngsfield
10 SAI Bn - Mmabatho
14 SAI Bn - Umtata
115 SAI Bn - Wonderboom/Wallmanstad
116 SAI Bn - Messina
118 SAI Bn - Ellisras
121 SAI Bn- Mtubatuba

I'm not sure if this is 100% accurate, it is based on that Defence Review, some issues of SA Soldier, and other stuff on the net. 3 SAI are not listed because they are now the army's basic training unit for all non-leader group personnel (leader group does basics at the SA Army Gymnasium). I've not listed the Parabats either. 61 Mech apparently was disbanded last year, 12 SAI (specialist infantry-motorcycles, horses, dog handlers, trackers) went a while back too. 1 SAI are mech infantry, the rest light or motorised.

According to the 2005/2008 Defence Strategic Plan, the infantry (Regular Force- new terminology) is to have 2 (?) mech, 10 light and 3 motorised battalions, with the Reserve Force having 6 mech, 10 light and 8 motorised. There are 1 full-time and 2 part-time parachute battalions, plus a pathfinder platoon.

Why such a large full-time infantry component? To me 6 properly-trained, properly-manned battalions would make a lot more sense than 14/15.

baboon6

06-19-2006, 05:23 PM

Are the 100-series SAI Battalions legacy units from the old Zulu/Tribal battalions? And what are motorized units using? Just Samils or Casspirs/Mambas?

1) Yes. 9 SAI used to be the SA Cape Corps depot, and 14 SAI was 1 Transkei Infantry Battalion.
2) Mambas and Casspirs, the latter mainly for heavy weapons (106mm recoilless rifles and 81mm mortars).

Hellfish

06-19-2006, 05:28 PM

Does the SANDF have a manportable ATGM? I know there's the Milan, but I don't know if its still in service or at what level its issued (battalion, brigade, company, etc.)

baboon6

06-20-2006, 08:45 AM

Does the SANDF have a manportable ATGM? I know there's the Milan, but I don't know if its still in service or at what level its issued (battalion, brigade, company, etc.)

I don't know. The only two pics I've ever seen of the Milan in SA service are of it being used by special forces in Angola in the late 80s. It's not mentioned in any of the books I've read about SADF weaponry. Mechanised units would use the Ratel ZT-3. There is also the 92mm rocket launcher, based on the French LRAC (hope I'm getting that right), while AFAIK Special Forces and Parabats still use the RPG-7.

http://www.saactc.army.mil.za/images/pic28.jpg

There are no brigade-level units in the SA Army today. Administratively the army is divided into type formations eg SA Army Armour Formation, controls all regular and reserve armoured units and School of Armour. There are two brigade headquarters (43 and 46 SA Brigades) but they have no permanently assigned units.

Ironsight06

06-20-2006, 11:27 AM

There is also the 92mm rocket launcher, based on the French LRAC (hope I'm getting that right), while AFAIK Special Forces and Parabats still use the RPG-7.

http://www.saactc.army.mil.za/images/pic28.jpg
That's an FT-5. Don't know if it's based of the LRAC though.

playtym

06-20-2006, 12:25 PM

I don't know. The only two pics I've ever seen of the Milan in SA service are of it being used by special forces in Angola in the late 80s. It's not mentioned in any of the books I've read about SADF weaponry. Mechanised units would use the Ratel ZT-3. There is also the 92mm rocket launcher, based on the French LRAC (hope I'm getting that right), while AFAIK Special Forces and Parabats still use the RPG-7.

I haven't seen anything regarding a new man-portable guided anti-tank missle, but can contribute something regarding the use of the Milan, FT-5 and RPG-7.

When I was with 8 SAI during their conversion to a mechanised unit (we would have formed part of 63 mechanised battalion we were told) the chaps who operated the Ratel-90 fire support vehicles had the Milan missle. I think they were from 1 SAI in Bloem. The only time I saw it used though was when we did a demo at Lohatlha for some visiting dignitaries.

The infantry were equipped with RPG-7's at section level and the FT-5 (which we were told was 89mm - and derived from the French LRAC.) was used at platoon level by the HQ section. So, to each platoon there were 3 RPG-7s and one FT-5.

I never once saw a ZT-3 Ratel though - there probably weren't enough to go around at that point!

If you think about it we actually had some pretty awesome firepower.

A mechanised platoon consisted of 3 Ratel 20's carrying the infantry sections and a Ratel 60 carrying the HQ section. Each infantry section consisted of a rifle section (made up of a section leader and 4 riflemen who were armed with 5 R4's and and an RPG-7 between them, along with a mix of rifle and hand grenades), and an LMG section (made up of a section 2ic and an LMG 1 & 2 armed with an FN-MAG, 2 R4's and a Y2 MGL between them). The HQ section consisted of a platoon leader, a platoon sergeant, a signaller, a Patmor 1 & 2 and an FT-5 1 & 2 (who were armed with 7 R4's, a 60mm Patmor and an 89mm FT-5 between them).

baboon6

06-20-2006, 12:47 PM

Uh don't you mean platoon mate? I've never heard of a company with only three sections.

playtym

06-20-2006, 01:07 PM

Uh don't you mean platoon mate? I've never heard of a company with only three sections.

Damn! A company led by a platoon leader?!? Once again you've spotted my mistake. I seem to type a lot faster than I think. If I ever write a book you'll be the first person I ask to edit it for me.

It should make more sense now that I've edited my post.

flecha

06-20-2006, 01:11 PM

866532 troops with Milan, Ops Modular

866632 on patrol , Oom Willie se pad
866732 patrol early days, note .30 Browning "borrowed" from Eland armoured car
8668Pseudo op deep behind Fapla lines, back left Mike Geldenhuys, son of Gen. Jannie Geldenhuys, front right, Gawie Venter, killed 2006, Iraq, deeply missed by all...

baboon6

06-20-2006, 02:03 PM

Hey I made a mistake with the rocket launcher!

Ironsight06

06-20-2006, 02:10 PM

32 patrol early days, note .30 Browning "borrowed" from Eland armoured car
Was the M1919a6 also in use with the South Africans? The bipod makes it look like it's an M1919a6 instead of the M1919a4 which was mounted on the vehicles.

playtym

06-20-2006, 02:11 PM

Hey I made a mistake with the rocket launcher!

I don't think so. I remember seeing an article somewhere along the line about a newer version that was of a larger calibre. It's probably the one that you're refering to and the one in the pic you posted. A new rocket launcher to go with their new camo!

Did you check out Flecha's pic of the 32 guys with the Milan in the SADF thread?

While we're on the subject of anti-tank rockets - I found this picture which I know everyone will like.

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/2027/ingwe14bn.jpg

playtym

06-20-2006, 02:23 PM

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/4526/unkownvehicle6jv.jpg

I know that the turret is a LCT-12.7 - LIW Compact Turret, but can anyone ID the vehicle it's mounted on?

baboon6

06-20-2006, 02:58 PM

Looks related to a Casspir. The Ingwe is mounted on a Mamba derivative- I've seen 60mm mortars on those too.

A question about the mech infantry orbat- how did the poor section grenadier carry his R4, the Y2 and ammo for both?

playtym

06-20-2006, 03:35 PM

A question about the mech infantry orbat- how did the poor section grenadier carry his R4, the Y2 and ammo for both?

Y2 slung over the back with stock folded, R4 carried and ammo crammed into any available pouch on your battle jacket.

http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/9626/pattern83battlejacketfront3pa.jpg

The area I've marked on the front with the red arrows would be used to carry rifle grenades - held down by the velcro straps and the elasticated holders.

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/7038/pattern83battlejacketback0nb.jpg

The velcro flap marked with the yellow arrow would have a 50 round mag sticking out. We all carried these for when we assualted trenches - you need loads of ammo and won't be going ****e.

That was a light load-out though. If we were going to do an attack without the Ratels then everyone would get an extra special ammo load.

The area marked on the back with the red arrows would be used to carry a 60mm mortar bomb on either side. You'd drop your bombs off with the Patmor guys on the way to the start line.

Baboon6, check out this pdf. I don't know how reliable the source is, but on page 5 they recon we had 4 mechanised battalions in 2001.
http://www.ghqmodels.com/pdf/30South%20Africa.pdf

baboon6

06-20-2006, 09:23 PM

Excellent stuff! How was 7.62 link carried for the MAGs? I would assume in the backpack part of the vest.

Don't know about that PDF. It's from a gamesite...

baboon6

06-20-2006, 09:30 PM

Was the M1919a6 also in use with the South Africans? The bipod makes it look like it's an M1919a6 instead of the M1919a4 which was mounted on the vehicles.

No. The bipod's different for starters, and there's no buttstock.

playtym

06-21-2006, 04:36 AM

Excellent stuff! How was 7.62 link carried for the MAGs? I would assume in the backpack part of the vest.

7.62 link was normally carried in one (or both) of the side pouches.

The large pouch on the back of the battle jacket was reserved for your 2-litre water bottle - this was because it made a nice stepping stone for your mates when you encouter barbed wire.

The drill was that the first 2 guys to reach the wire would assume firing positions to lay down cover fire. The 3rd guy to get there would dump his rifle and throw himself onto the barbed wire. Everyone else would then run over him, using the water bottle as a stepping stone, and assume firing positions on the other side. The first two guys would then cross over, retrieving this blokes rifle on the way. You'd get picked up off of the wire by lifting the lower part of your legs vertical to the ground so these two guys could grab your ankles and flip you over off of the wire using your helmet as a pivot - which would inveriably scoop up a nice big pile of sand and dump it in your face!

flecha

06-26-2006, 08:32 AM

"32 patrol early days, note .30 Browning "borrowed" from Eland armoured car"

Herewith a ex-32 member reminiscing abot the early days, '76-'78

"You should have been there when I was there we had to carry our wounded back to the cutline, no choppers across the border and we had no LMG,s, we had to kill terrs to get the PKM,s. You really had it soft!!! We also had to live on airdrops,use donkeys to move the cargo and then cache it. This was 7 weeks in and 3 weeks out, with 1 in the states. I had to use PPSH,s as LMGs.

We also did not have ratpacks had to carry full tins of food. For cammo we used ricepack uniform taken from dead terrs, with holes and full of blood. I have all this on photo if you want to see it, and ask ****** about this. For grenades we had the mills 36 grenade and the best we had for a rifle grenade was a Strim. For smokes we collected tobacco in the kraals and dried and smoked that in message forms, for food when the airdrop failed we shot cows and killed goats with clubs so as not to attract the big SWAPO units. We used Unimogs and not Buffels - mineprotected. To check for mines you rode on the front bumper on the Mog and looked for changes in the soil in the road. When you finally got a PKM you had to attack bases to get more ammo for the belts.

For water we drilled holes into the kashimbas to get into the water table, to do this we used a Strim - copper cone drilled at least 1 meter down. We had no medics, the Lt had to do all of that, the NCO,s were not up to standard.We had no smart radios with decode - hopper freqs, we had to use slidex!! For water you drained it through a bomb bandage and even my horse would not drink that. To bring in the airdrop we had to make about 10 fires with arrow and code at drop zone - and then run!. For LMG,s we eventually stole Brownings off the Eland 90,s and welded bipods onto them with a 400 round belt carried in a patrol bag. Had no butt only a pistol grip.When you hit contact the Lt fired first and he had to kill the LMG gunner first.We had Racal B22 and you had to spend hours chargeing the batt with a charger tied to a tree.

At ****** we had to kill fish with PE4 and shoot animals to survive, we were not recognised as a unit. For 2 weeks on R and R we stole everything we could from Sector 20 HQ - weapons, food, vehicles, ammo, PE4, Claymores and uniforms. Can tell you lots more but hate typing."

flecha

06-26-2006, 03:37 PM

Some photos from Ops Savannah, if there is any interest I'll post some more

8806Lighting up courtesey of the MPLA

8807MPLA Prisoner

8808 Cuca Beer

8809 Dead MPLA

Ironsight06

06-26-2006, 03:40 PM

Great quality pictures :)

sa_bushwar

06-26-2006, 04:17 PM

Some photos from Ops Savannah, if there is any interest I'll post some more

8806Lighting up courtesey of the MPLA

8807MPLA Prisoner

8808 Cuca Beer

8809 Dead MPLA

Please do!

flecha

06-27-2006, 03:46 PM

Koevoet consisted mainly of what we called "tame Terrs" ie Swapo Terrs who had been captured and turned, herewith some pictures of Koevoet members getting ready to go out on patrol

8859 Koevoet members in relaxed mode

8860 Koevoet Captain

8861 Weapons being cleaned, Browning 7,62

8862 Container is empty ammo crate, liquid diesel

8863 Officer and NCO watching weapon cleaning

ElHombre

06-27-2006, 04:12 PM

i recall that koevoet captain serving as a model for an illustration in an 'osprey publishing' book.

sp2c

06-27-2006, 04:32 PM

are there any pictures from operation Boleas (Lesotho 1998, I believe?)

flecha

06-27-2006, 05:32 PM

are there any pictures from operation Boleas (Lesotho 1998, I believe?)
Mmmm...

I dont think you'll find to many photos of Ops Boleas, it wasn't exactly the SANDF's finest hour, it must have been the first time in history when an invading force had blanks and the defenders had live ammunition,(this really occurred).

I suppose its not all that suprising when the General Officer Commanding the SANDF's biography calls the 3 weeks training on a 60mm mortar he had " A 60mm artillery course " , and that is the Gods honest truth.

It probably came as a shock for all the jumped up Umkhonto We Sizwe " Officers" to realise that there is somewhat of a difference between real soldiering and planting bombs in restaurants...

Tolstoy

06-27-2006, 05:37 PM

Here's some pics of a braai (barbeque for the non-SA folks :) ) I went to at Swartkops AFB:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/MARC01/venue0.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/MARC01/sunset.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/MARC01/tour1-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/MARC01/tour2-1.jpg
The last Mirage was the first one to get a kill in the Angolan Theatre (I forget the pilot's name). It still has the kill marking on it.

It's kind of depressing seeing all these wonderful aircraft rusting away, but I guess that's the price of peace :p

Ironsight06

06-27-2006, 05:57 PM

The last Mirage was the first one to get a kill in the Angolan Theatre (I forget the pilot's name). It still has the kill marking on it.
Rankin?

123456

flecha

06-27-2006, 06:17 PM

Rankin?

123456
Yip,

Herewith some pictures of what the Cubans claim to be pieces of Ed Every's Mirage F1 that was shot down during the battle of Cuito Cuanavale

8885 8886 8887 8888

playtym

06-27-2006, 07:15 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/MARC01/tour2-1.jpg
The last Mirage was the first one to get a kill in the Angolan Theatre (I forget the pilot's name). It still has the kill marking on it.

Rankin?

I don't know whether you and Flecha are right about Rankin being the first pilot to get a kill in the Angolan theatre, meaning, I don't have a clue who was, but this is the aircraft pictured above...

http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/7659/miragef1cz06of081xt.jpg

and the name painted on the side of it isn't Rankin, it's....

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/5900/miragef1cz01of088ai.jpg

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/965/miragef1cz05of082qq.jpg

baboon6

06-27-2006, 08:54 PM

http://math.fce.vutbr.cz/safarik/ACES/aces1/sa-min.html

Don't know how accurate this is. Carlo Gagiano, who damaged a MiG-23 in 1987, is the present Chief of the Air Force.

flecha

06-28-2006, 03:03 AM

Check out :http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_193.shtml

for a list of all of the postwar SAAF aces

Ironsight06

06-28-2006, 05:33 AM

flecha

06-28-2006, 03:47 PM

8903 Cuban BM-21 firing at South African forces at Ebo

8904 Cuban artillery at Ebo

8905 First South African POW's being displayed to the press in Luanda

JAZZ

06-29-2006, 08:01 AM

Ironsight06

06-29-2006, 10:32 AM

Sorry for interupting the flow, but Im keen to track down information on the following S.A armoured vehciles

1. Iron Eagle 4x4
2. Mechem MC-90
3. Mechem Krokodil 6x6 and Gator 8x8
4. Rooikat-2 ICV
5. MDB Mantis

Anyone have any phots of these vehicles?
There's an article regarding the MC-90 in Jane's Armor and Artillery and line drawings were posted in a topic on this forum.

And I think this is what you refer to as the Rooikat ICV:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/rsa/icvtd.htm

Crowbar

06-29-2006, 11:41 AM

I'm not sure if these pics have been posted yet. South African UN 'copters.

playtym

06-29-2006, 12:44 PM

Sorry for interupting the flow, but Im keen to track down information on the following S.A armoured vehciles

2. Mechem MC-90

Anyone have any photos of these vehicles?

Mechem MC-90

http://img288.imageshack.us/img288/6432/mc908fe.jpg

This was a prototype / technology demonstrator light armoured car. The running gear was Unimog based and the turret was to come from surplus Eland 90s. It was unveiled in the mid 1990s and despite several proposals for different variants it did not go into production.

Varients:
MC-90 - Reconnaissance/fire support version armed with 90mm DEFA.
MC-20 - Paper proposal for an air defence version.
MC-81 - Paper proposal for a Mortar armed fire support version.

playtym

06-29-2006, 07:47 PM

Did the SANDF modify the Saracen in any way, or did they use them in stock configuration? Also can you post SANDF Saracen pics please?

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9843/saracenarmouredcarldp069tl.jpg

thatguy96

06-29-2006, 08:06 PM

Is that the turret from a Panhard AML 90 (Eland), or is it something else?

baboon6

06-29-2006, 08:17 PM

I've never seen that before. Must be a prototype. I think it is an Eland turret.

BeetleCrusher

06-30-2006, 02:52 AM

Looks photoshopped to me, the 90mil barrel and turret is out of proportion to the saracen... may be wrong but I have never seen this at the Armour meuseum ever.

I've never seen that before. Must be a prototype. I think it is an Eland turret.

BeetleCrusher

06-30-2006, 02:55 AM

Wolf Turbo derivative?

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/4526/unkownvehicle6jv.jpg

I know that the turret is a LCT-12.7 - LIW Compact Turret, but can anyone ID the vehicle it's mounted on?

playtym

06-30-2006, 07:34 AM

I've never seen that before. Must be a prototype. I think it is an Eland turret.

It's no good asking me about it. I just put another drive in my computer so I was sorting through some folders and found this picture. I remembered Dark Avenger asking for Saracen pics, so I stuck it up here.

I don't even know whether it was ever used by the SADF; or whether it was a prototype or a production item. I'll have a look through some of my books when I get a chance, but I can't remember seeing one anywhere else other than in this picture.

It's definately not an Eland 90 turret though - it's way to small - although that sure does look like the Eland 90's muzzle brake, so it may have the same gun fitted. See the two side-by-side.

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9843/saracenarmouredcarldp069tl.jpg
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/649/elandarmouredcarsandstoneldp06.jpg

I have never seen this at the Armour meuseum ever.

That pic's not from the Armour Museum - the 'Sandstone - 2006' on the pic refers to the Sandstone Heritage Trust, based at Sandstone Estates outside Ficksburg. Their site is http://www.sandstone.co.za (but it seems to be down today). I've never been there, but they apparently hold military days where they display armour etc. - the Eland 90 picture is also from there. I'm not sure where the armour etc. comes from when it's displayed there, but they had pictures of some 25-pounders and Ferrets loaded on rail cars on their site when I last visited it.

calimero2

06-30-2006, 07:40 AM

To me it looks as if they welded a dummy 90mm gun onto the original MG turret. Maybe it's some sort of OPFOR vehicle?

BeetleCrusher

06-30-2006, 07:50 AM

Great... will pop in next time I go to Qwaqwa and see exactly what they have. Will give me an excuse to take some pics of their Locos as well... they have an amazing collection of ancient stuff by the way. :-)

That pic's not from the Armour Museum - the 'Sandstone - 2006' on the pic refers to the Sandstone Heritage Trust, based at Sandstone Estates outside Ficksburg. Their site is http://www.sandstone.co.za (but it seems to be down today). I've never been there, but they apparently hold military days where they display armour etc. - the Eland 90 picture is also from there. I'm not sure where the armour etc. comes from when it's displayed there, but they had pictures of some 25-pounders and Ferrets loaded on rail cars on their site when I last visited it.

BeetleCrusher

06-30-2006, 09:00 AM

The domain name has been changed... check out this gallery with a Saracen and Cassipir amongst others.
http://www.sandstone-estates.com/heritage/Galleries/UAS_Cosmos_2006/Errol_Ashwell_UAS_Cosmos06.htm

Great... will pop in next time I go to Qwaqwa and see exactly what they have. Will give me an excuse to take some pics of their Locos as well... they have an amazing collection of ancient stuff by the way. :-)

BeetleCrusher

06-30-2006, 10:14 AM

Mmmmm...

With all due respect your ignorance beggars belief !

Hear hear...rofl

BeetleCrusher

06-30-2006, 10:16 AM

One of these is currently in a shocking state at Armour meuseum in Tempe. Will dig up the picture tonight on my laptop...

Mechem MC-90

http://img288.imageshack.us/img288/6432/mc908fe.jpg

This was a prototype / technology demonstrator light armoured car. The running gear was Unimog based and the turret was to come from surplus Eland 90s. It was unveiled in the mid 1990s and despite several proposals for different variants it did not go into production.

Varients:
MC-90 - Reconnaissance/fire support version armed with 90mm DEFA.
MC-20 - Paper proposal for an air defence version.
MC-81 - Paper proposal for a Mortar armed fire support version.

MR1

06-30-2006, 11:53 AM

[quote=Nordwind]I'm quite a big fan of the Ratel as well. The G-6 sure is a beast, probably won't be battle proven anytimes soon though which is a shame. But South Africa can't really afford to fight any wars besides peacekeeping missions at the moment.]

Aaaah NordWind you forgot about Ops Hooper, Packer and Modular They are battle proven bud!

Nordwind

06-30-2006, 12:03 PM

Aaaah NordWind you forgot about Ops Hooper, Packer and Modular They are battle proven bud!
I think Hellfish pointed it out that they were battle proven as well. My mistake, consider me re-educated. haha

flecha

06-30-2006, 01:58 PM

What we called Ops Savannah was known as Ops Carlotta to our Cuban adversaries, as in any war, it was those on the ground and their relatives that paid the butchers bill...

8999 Photos of Cuban soldiers who died in Angola at a ceremony in Havana to honour their sacrifices.

9000 A father weeps for his son.

9001 A guard honour presents arms as the ashes of the Fallen pass.

9002 Castro comforts family members of the Fallen.

playtym

06-30-2006, 02:16 PM

To me it looks as if they welded a dummy 90mm gun onto the original MG turret.

I think this assessment is correct. I searched the net a bit today and as far I can tell I think the Saracen and the Ferret both used the same turret. Considering that it's a one man turret with an MG mounted to the right there'd be no room for the commander/gunner with the breach of that 90mm sitting to the left on the MG - not to mention the recoil force that the turret would need to withstand!

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/7540/saracen28ps.jpg

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/8304/ferretmkii3az.jpg

I guess we'll have to wait until BeetleCrusher's had an opportunity to pop in there and confirm this for us. Remember now, we want lots of pictures and info!

BeetleCrusher

06-30-2006, 02:58 PM

E-Sqdn

06-30-2006, 06:11 PM

I am pretty sure it was Rankin who killed the first MiG. It was in Opertion Daisy, two MiG-21's entered the area of operation and one was shot down by Rankin's Mirage F1. Don't know if he's the "MiG-Killer" but he was the first South African pilot to shoot a MiG down.
Hi Guys,
I'm new here but regarding the "Rankin" Mig kills: He shot down both of the first two Mig 21 kills, the first one flying Mirage F1CZ no 213 wearing standard (at the time), sand (deep buff)/ green SAAF cammo.

His second Mig 21 kill was flying the Mirage F1CZ no 203 pictured in your thread which was wearing the three tone grey cammo scheme.
At the time of this kill, this Mirage was the only one in SAAF using the grey cammo scheme.

The name "Johann Venter" referrs to "Jeronkie Venter" who was the last pilot permanently allocated to Mirage F1 CZ no 203 when the squadron was disbanded but it still carried Rankins kill marking.

By the way it is possible that Rankin damaged another Mig 21 that later crashed or crash landed and possibly a Mig 23 as well.

E-Sqdn

06-30-2006, 06:21 PM

I was an Olifant M1A crew at E- Squadron School of Armour 1985 /1986.

During a 3 month deployment as part of Natal Mounted Rifle at 61 Mech in December 1988 / March 1989 (In then South West Africa) I saw a number of 32 Bat Ratels that were painted green all over, similar to the Angolan army vehicles but a bit lighter in tone.

Does anyone remember seeing them?
Does anyone have fotos of them?

I have one very poor quality photo I got off the internet where you can just make out what appear to be green Ratels.

playtym

06-30-2006, 06:28 PM

:-) Just got back from the shop with my "birthday present" to myself... a Kodak C340, to replace my Nikon Coolpix 2000 that got dropped on the memory card end... total write off it was.
My next trip to our other campus is scheduled for sometime at the end of July so you guys will have to be a tad patient...

That's a pretty sweet camera you've got there BeetleCrusher. I can be patient till then, and I've been working on something to keep the rest of the guys occupied too.

Everybody's benefiting from this little spring clean I'm doing on my hard drives - I found some pictures of the interior of a Ratel and I've written up some narratives to go with each of them.

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/1567/101757py.jpg

This picture is taken from the left door looking at the turret basket.
The section leader would occupy the seat that is visible.
The bin behind the seat is used to store 20mm ammo, which is fed from the bottom of the bin through a chute under the seat into the bottom of the 20mm cannon.
Just above the seat is the 'pear-bag' that is used to catch the shell cases and links from the 7.62mm MG4 co-axial machine gun.
The large bin below it is used to catch the links from the 20mm cannon – the shell cases are ejected through an ejection port in the roof of the turret. It's not a good idea to forget to open that before firing the cannon – when a 20mm case is ejected it is going very fast and is very hot!!

http://img342.imageshack.us/img342/1554/rat5a2dl.jpg

This is a closer view of the turret from the left of the vehicle. The MG4 is not in its mount, although the 'pear-bag' is in place, but the 20mm cannon is mounted.
The elevation and traverse wheels are visible below the cannon.

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2769/rat65tf.jpg

This is a view of the cannon from the rear.
The MG4 mount is to the left of the canon with an extractor fan visible above it on the roof of the turret. The white ball visible in the foreground above the cannon is the lever for opening the ejection port in the roof of the turret.
The elevation wheel is attached to the weapon mount, and the handle of the traverse wheel is just visible on the right side of the picture.
Between the two wheels you can see the switch box for controlling the electrical firing mechanism for the cannon, MG4 and the extractor fan - basically the Ratels safety catch.
The black strip above this switch box is a padded foam cushion the gunner rests his head against when sighting the weapons. The weapon sight would protrude below this strip but is not fitted here.

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/2096/rat195hy.jpg

This is a closer view of the switch box and the elevation and traverse wheels.

http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/4319/rat251rw.jpg

This is the gunners seat as viewed from the drivers position.
The elevation wheel is visible in the centre and the traverse wheel is just visible on the left of the picture.

http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/8061/rat87xj.jpg

This a view of the gunners seat through the hatch in the top of the turret.
The breach of the cannon is visible to the left of the picture, the elevation and traverse wheels to the top, and on the right is the mounting for a vision periscope with its rubber pad.

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5183/rat7a5as.jpg

This is a view into the turret from the left side. The section leaders seat is on the right and the gunners on the left.
The 20mm cannon is visible on the left of the picture.
Between the two seats is the storage bin for the MG4 co-axial machine gun ammo boxes.
Above that is the mount where the radios are be fitted.
Sticking down from the roof is the lever for opening the ejection port in the roof of the turret.
Directly behind it is a little box with a chain attached to it. This is the firing mechanism for the 81mm smoke grenade launchers mounted on the exterior of the turret.
Between the ejection port lever and the breach of the cannon is a mount for a vision periscope, but it is not fitted in this picture.

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/6587/101767ts.jpg

This is the drivers position viewed from the left.
The red lever visible through the steering wheel spokes is pulled to release the shutters that cover the drivers windows.
The drivers seat is conveniently positioned so that he can be given a swift kick to the head by either of the turret occupants if he's not following instructions!

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3275/101771ok.jpg

Drivers position again.
Just visible on the left of the picture is the lever to operate the hydraulically powered door.
In the lower centre portion of the picture is the gear shifter – it has six forward and two reverse gears.

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/773/101788rz.jpg

The drivers position from the right side.
The levers in the centre of the picture are for operating the diff locks, switching between high and low range and switching from 4x6 to 6x6 drive.
The square black box to the right of the steering wheel is a trip meter.
The lever for operating the right door is visible just sticking out to the right of the support beam.
The mechanism with the spring in the top right of the picture is the latch for the window shutter.

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/7222/101793sw.jpg

This is the bench seat viewed from the left door. Riflemen 2, 3 & 4 would be seated here with the section 2 i/c and the LMG 1 & 2 seated behind them.
The red button on the wall of the engine compartment above the backrest of the seat is an engine kill switch that can be used by the infantry to shut off the engine should the driver be disabled.
The object in the top left hand corner is a light – with white and red lights. There is another one in the centre of the picture on the opposite side of the vehicle above the backrest of the seat.
You can see a spare armoured glass vision block in the bottom left hand corner on the opposite side of the vehicle. We would sometimes use these as additional base plates for the jack if we were in soft sand.

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/3999/rat118vk.jpg

This is the view looking back towards the rear door of the Ratel.

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4365/101804mq.jpg

This is the turret basket viewed from the bench seat position of rifleman No.4.
In the centre of the picture behind the support beam is the storage bin for the ammo boxes for the MG4 co-axial machine gun.
On the left side of the picture you can see the hydraulic ram that operates the door.

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/370/101811au.jpg

The same view from the other side of the vehicle.
The gunners seat is visible on the right of the turret basket.
There would also be a feed chute coming out of the ammo bin behind his seat.

http://img333.imageshack.us/img333/1246/101827qr.jpg

Another view from the left of the vehicle across the backrest of the seat.
You can see the three firing ports and vision blocks.
There are two fire extinguishers and the light to the right of the picture.
To the right of the fire extinguishers is the fuel tank.

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/5576/101831ps.jpg

This is a close up of one of the firing ports.
You can see the two retaining catches that hold the vision blocks in place. You just undo the thumb screws and the retaining plate comes out and you can swap out the vision block.
The flaps to either side of the firing port are rubber case deflectors that prevent spent cases from flying around inside the vehicle when the riflemen fire out through the firing ports.
You can also see the handles the infantry would hang onto when crossing rough terrain.

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7687/101843bd.jpg

A view of the three firing ports from the tunnel in the rear of the vehicle.
You can see the light in close-up on the right of the picture.

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/383/101868it.jpg

This picture is taken from the end of the tunnel at the rear of the vehicle.
The engine is to your left, and the fuel tank to your right – I didn’t think it was so clever putting that inside with the crew – but nobody consulted me when they designed this thing!
The air watch hatch will be right above the photographers head.

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/1636/101872uq.jpg

This is the inside of the left door.
In the bottom right of the picture you can see the seat that rifleman No.1 would occupy. I think this is possibly a prototype seat as it seems to just be a steel plate with a piece of rubber covering it. It flips up and down to clear the door area for easier access. Production vehicles had a seat with padded canvas covered bottom and back rest.
Below the shell case deflector on the door is a storage rack for spare magazines, and another fire extinguisher in the bottom left of the picture.

Something which may be of interest is the way in which the doors would be opened when the infantry would dismount.
When they were going to dismount the instruction, ‘maak gereed om uit te stap’ (prepare to dismount) would be given. The guys nearest the doors would hang onto the bar you can see on the left of the door and throw the hydraulic lever to open the door. The door would now only be held closed by the rifleman holding it. When the section leader wanted them to dismount he would give the instruction, ‘stop! Stap uit!’ (stop! Dismount!) – and the guys would release the doors which would then be thrown open by the pressure that had built up in the hydraulic rams. If they didn’t do this the door opening would be pretty lethargic and the dismount would be too slow.

The section leader would have his battle jacket hanging in this door, as he’d be sitting in the turret until they dismounted. He’d have to stop and put it on before he could dismount from the vehicle.

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/250/ratnew115ok.jpg

This is a picture with the access cover for the air filter open.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/2784/ratnew136ux.jpg

This is a view showing the cooling fan for the engine and the rear door of the Ratel, which splits so the bottom section forms a step.

http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/7950/rat156eg.jpg

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/778/gi21pm.jpg

This is the GI2 20mm Rapid Fire Automatic Cannon with the two feed chutes that feed the ammo from the bins behind the turret seats into the cannon.
This cannon was actually mounted upside down in the Ratels so that these chutes fed from the bottom of the weapon. The electrical firing mechanisms were a constant problem on the vehicles as they regularly malfunctioned – you’d then have to fire the weapon manually. That’s not the easiest thing to do when you’re trying to traverse, elevate and fire the weapon all at once.
On the top of the cannon behind the feed chutes is a lever to switch the feed from one chute to the other. We’d load AP in one side and HE in the other and could select the appropriate ammo by varying the feed.

http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/6400/gi2feedmechanism1wv.jpg

This is a view of the feed mechanism of the cannon – looks a little complex doesn’t it?
As you see it is how it would be mounted in the vehicle, with the ammo feeding up from the bottom. The lever I mentioned above that varies the ammo feed determines which of the two gears you can see on the left of the picture will be engaged and which ammo will be fed into the cannon.

Another ill-conceived design aspect was in the ammo storage and feed mechanism of the vehicle. The ammo was fed from the bottom of the storage bins behind the seats – which of course means that all of the ammo piled in the bin is pressing down on the section of belt that is being pulled through the chute into the cannon. This constantly caused the belt links to break under the strain. In that case this little tool would be your best friend.

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/9373/gi2tool3pt.jpg

You stick it up the chute and hook the belt so that you can pull it down to the end of the chute and feed it into the cannon. This is the main reason that I was so happy I ended being the gunner on a company commanders Ratel. Our vehicle was fitted with a 12.7mm Browning – and mine never had one stoppage the whole time I had her!

E-Sqdn

06-30-2006, 06:43 PM

playtym

06-30-2006, 08:35 PM

I was tank crew at School of Armour in 1985/1986 and all the above experimental vehicles were in outside storage there and already out of use.
They were parked with some captured Angolan army T34's and BTR 60
We were of the understanding that they were prototypes for the requirement that ultimately became the Rooikat

I assume you're refering to the ones I posted on page 12? All of those pictures were taken at the Armour Museum in Bloemfontein. I have no more info than what's on the plate attached to each vehicle that I photographed though.

E-Sqdn

07-01-2006, 06:33 AM

Yeah sorry about that, I was referring to the photo's on page 12.
At the time I was there these vehicles were basically abandoned near the captured stuff.
Developement work was already well on the way with the Rooikat instead.
I actually watched them testing the 76mm gun for the then prototype Rooikat and took part in the trials for its spotlight (as the target!).
The spotlight was mounted on an Olifant MK1A for these trials.

Great photo's BTW

playtym

07-01-2006, 08:12 PM

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/4882/251712hj.jpg

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/4189/ratelcommand015lz.jpg

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/5060/ratelcommand033ca.jpg

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/1520/ratelcommand027kn.jpg

playtym

07-01-2006, 08:15 PM

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/7609/ratel20006uc.jpg

http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/2368/ratel20015by.jpg

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/7300/ratel20027uf.jpg

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/594/ratel20036lr.jpg

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/7892/ratel20041pp.jpg

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/3593/ratel20064lh.jpg

http://img321.imageshack.us/img321/8889/ratel20076oi.jpg

http://img321.imageshack.us/img321/300/ratel20084zg.jpg

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/1875/ratel20100hh.jpg

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1070/ratel20156vk.jpg

http://img432.imageshack.us/img432/5837/ratel20165au.jpg

http://img303.imageshack.us/img303/7897/ratel20170xv.jpg

http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/3455/ratel20187ym.jpg

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2589/ratel20195kg.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3016/ratel20205ef.jpg

http://img276.imageshack.us/img276/2341/ratel20211dy.jpg

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/953/ratel20225vp.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/43/ratel20231xm.jpg

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/6153/ratel20145su.jpg

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/1150/ratel20linedrawing5nf.jpg

playtym

07-01-2006, 08:18 PM

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/369/ratel60019wt.jpg

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/2746/ratel60026zj.jpg

playtym

07-01-2006, 08:26 PM

http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/905/ratel90015wr.jpg

http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/2610/ratel90029yr.jpg

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/4501/ratel90049cz.jpg

http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/2734/ratel90054eq.jpg

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/5217/ratel90068dn.jpg

http://img335.imageshack.us/img335/8095/ratel90181xl.jpg

http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/5808/ratel90211wq.jpg

http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/4636/ratel90195el.jpg

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/720/ratel90208ga.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8250/ratel90225jo.jpg

playtym

07-01-2006, 08:43 PM

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/2526/ratel81016fu.jpg

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/8182/ratel81028op.jpg

playtym

07-01-2006, 08:44 PM

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/6203/ratellog014eg.jpg

playtym

07-01-2006, 08:49 PM

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/8273/ratelzt3017sx.jpg

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/1686/ratelzt3023fm.jpg

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/1104/ratelzt3041yw.jpg

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/7471/ratelzt3051kl.jpg

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/6682/ratelzt3060kh.jpg

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/1278/ratelzt3092zv.jpg

playtym

07-01-2006, 09:05 PM

Seen at AAD 2004 - Waterkloof AFB
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7326/rinkalsarmouredambulance9sl.jpg

sa_bushwar, you've labelled this as picture as an Mfezi Armoured Ambulance in your post - it's actually a Rinkhals.

This is an Mfezi.

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/6049/mfezi011wd.jpg

Here are a couple of other pictures of a Rinkhals. That's captain Barry Fowler from Sentinel Projects in the pictures. Check out his photo page at http://uk.geocities.com/sadfbook/bfgvpics.htm to view the pictures and captions as I've posted them here.

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/5963/rinkalsbfoa493yy.jpg
To impress my children and grand children one day! Me standing in front of a Rinkhals in front of the Oshakati Sickbay.

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/1487/rinkalsbfoa506fy.jpg
Sitting in the Rinkhals.

playtym

07-01-2006, 09:53 PM

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3329/zumlac015dz.jpg

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5512/zumlac024ao.jpg

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3646/zumlac031zs.jpg

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/1990/zumlac040hd.jpg

playtym

07-01-2006, 09:54 PM

Bateleur

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2410/valkirimkii011ru.jpg

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/4479/valkirimkii026fn.jpg

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/3667/valkirimkii031od.jpg

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/1628/valkirimkii049ne.jpg

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/9497/valkirisomc026gu.jpg

playtym

07-01-2006, 09:55 PM

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/5889/valkirimki017ca.jpg

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/6249/valkirimki022ra.jpg

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/2382/valkirimki036iw.jpg

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/7986/valkirimki049rt.jpg

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/8945/army0368ij.jpg

playtym

07-02-2006, 07:17 PM

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4844/rooikat293og.jpg

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/95/rooikat113of.jpg

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/3894/rooikat135yq.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3232/rooikat125dn.jpg

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4642/rooikat311fm.jpg

http://img302.imageshack.us/img302/8814/rooikat304jx.jpg

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/918/rooikat108ia.jpg

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3195/rooikat330kk.jpg

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/3530/rooikat378ur.jpg

http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/9929/rooikat380ng.jpg

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/903/rooikat075ix.jpg

http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/4301/rooikat067lc.jpg

http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/6967/rooikatsouthafrica086ya.jpg

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5313/rooikat1a6la.jpg

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/6907/rooikatlinedrawing018rk.jpg

Switek

07-02-2006, 08:02 PM

No doubt that SADF have unique experience in fighting in specific area like african bushes. This why they created they own kind of equipement (not only affected by long term of embargo).

btw this AA gun looks familiar

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3646/zumlac031zs.jpg is this soviet made?

thatguy96

07-03-2006, 01:06 AM

Is the Zumlac still in service? Was it intended to be a mobile AA gun or a fire support system?

flanker7

07-03-2006, 01:26 AM

playtym

07-03-2006, 04:35 AM

Is the Zumlac still in service? Was it intended to be a mobile AA gun or a fire support system?

As far as I know, yes - it replaced the Ystervark, which had serious mobility issues. It just couldn't keep up with the armoured vehicles it was supposed to be protecting. They are both AA guns.

The Ystervark was a single barrel 20mm AA gun mounted on a Bulldog - which was a mine resistant APC built on a Samil 20 chassis. It was similar in design to the Buffel, but the drivers cab was on the right of the vehicle.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/SADF/Ystervark-01.jpg

And as flanker7 said...

It's a ZU-23!:)

During the bush war in Angola/SWA South Africa captured so much Soviet equipment that we started using some of it ourselves as general issue equipment, and manufacturing ammo for it.

playtym

07-03-2006, 02:03 PM

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2513/eland90016jr.jpg

http://img448.imageshack.us/img448/9642/eland90054yc.jpg

http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/329/eland90066ru.jpg

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1563/eland90020dp.jpg

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8598/eland208cc.jpg

Hellfish

07-03-2006, 02:22 PM

flecha

07-03-2006, 03:02 PM

Herewith some photos of Ratels during Ops Modular,that shows the difficult terrain we had operate in ,I've grabbed these from a video taken during the op, the quality is not all that great, but I think the uniqueness of the photos make up for the poor quality

9143 9144 9145

baboon6

07-03-2006, 04:54 PM

What do the Rooikat units train for? AFAIR the vehicles were designed for long range penetrations and raids into rear areas. Do they primarily train for that or for something like infantry fire support or scouting or something else?

Well they replaced the Elands (and in certain roles Ratel-90s) and those vehicles were used for all the roles you mentioned.

Nordwind

07-03-2006, 05:14 PM

You have one ridiculously huge amount of pictures! Thanks for sharing em! In this thread and in the other SA thread you just keep dishing em out. Thanks again!

playtym

07-03-2006, 07:18 PM

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1461/eland13rv.jpg

http://img351.imageshack.us/img351/5969/eland24gj.jpg

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/3445/eland35el.jpg

http://img449.imageshack.us/img449/3044/eland43jn.jpg

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/7227/eland59oi.jpg

http://img347.imageshack.us/img347/9534/eland65yq.jpg

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/63/eland74ri.jpg

http://img307.imageshack.us/img307/9241/eland89gw.jpg

http://img421.imageshack.us/img421/8710/eland99mn.jpg

http://img449.imageshack.us/img449/5771/eland107rd.jpg

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/3503/eland113cl.jpg

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/2730/eland120ae.jpg

http://img437.imageshack.us/img437/6961/eland134oy.jpg

playtym

07-03-2006, 07:41 PM

Nature's Index: November 2003

Largest country in the world: Russia
South Africa's ranking (http://www.photius.com/wfb1999/rankings/total_land_area_0.html) by size: 27th.
By Population (http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbrank.pl): 26
SA Population growth rate (http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbsum?cty=SF), 2002: -0.5%
Fertility rate (http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbsum?cty=SF) (per woman), 2000: 2.4

SA Population, 2000: 42 million
SA Population forecast (http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbsum?cty=SF), 2025: 35 million
Percentage change: -16%

Number of (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2129563.stm)Olifant tanks in SA army: 168
Of those, number operational: 4
Number of Rooikat armoured vehicles in SA Army 242
Of those, number operational: 8

Men per general, SA Army:: 293
Men per general, US Army: 2,000

Reported number of deployable troops, SA Army: 76,000
Of those, number actually fit for deployment: 3,000

Approximate month SA Air Force runs out of fuel annually: September
SA's close air support role provided by: G5, G6

Total "cost of defense (http://www.mil.za/Articles&Papers/AnnualReports/AnnualReport2002_2003/AnnualReport03.pdf)" in SA: R18 bn

Length of SA's coastline (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sf.html): 2,798 Km
Number of modern ships the SA Navy has to patrol the coastline with: 1
Name of ship: SAS Amatola (http://www.defense-aerospace.com/data/communiques/data/2003Jun16148/).

Here's the link: http://www.nature.co.za/triviaDec03.htm

JAZZ

07-04-2006, 05:26 AM

Poor photos...but this is all I can find. Iron Eagle and Rooikat-2 ICV in S.A

flecha

07-04-2006, 03:00 PM

You have one ridiculously huge amount of pictures! Thanks for sharing em! In this thread and in the other SA thread you just keep dishing em out. Thanks again!

Its a pleasure Boet !

9275 Unita officer
9273 Unita patrol Bimbe 9272 Unita patrol Bimbe 9274 Preparing to drop a bridge
9276 Unita quartermaster,Jamba 9277 Artificial limb workshop, Jamba

playtym

07-05-2006, 07:56 AM

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3779/aa7ea.jpg

http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/4606/ratnew174sj.jpg

http://img421.imageshack.us/img421/864/ratnew168zq.jpg

USMarine

07-05-2006, 10:31 AM

wow i did'nt know South Africa has such an armyp-)

flecha

07-05-2006, 11:08 AM

wow i did'nt know South Africa has such an armyp-)
We dont, all we have is a Potemkin village..

playtym

07-05-2006, 11:44 AM

We dont, all we have is a Potemkin village..

Damn boet! :oops: I had to Google that to figure out what you meant.

I agree. What he should have said was, 'wow i did'nt know South Africa HAD such an army'

playtym

07-05-2006, 07:41 PM

http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/1507/dscf01060et.th.jpg (http://img226.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf01060et.jpg)

http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/4327/dscf01895of.th.jpg (http://img487.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf01895of.jpg)

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/405/dscf01866gl.th.jpg (http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf01866gl.jpg)

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/400/dscf01372il.th.jpg (http://img198.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf01372il.jpg)

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4537/dscf01392oh.th.jpg (http://img193.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf01392oh.jpg)

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/1363/dscf01401rt.th.jpg (http://img456.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf01401rt.jpg)

http://img304.imageshack.us/img304/7430/dscf01485vs.th.jpg (http://img304.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf01485vs.jpg)

http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/6137/dscf01499dr.th.jpg (http://img486.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf01499dr.jpg)

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/2244/dscf01553ah.th.jpg (http://img200.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf01553ah.jpg)

http://img284.imageshack.us/img284/193/dscf01383mw.th.jpg (http://img284.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf01383mw.jpg)

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/4289/dscf01804nu.th.jpg (http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf01804nu.jpg)

http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/7374/dscf01427mh.th.jpg (http://img271.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf01427mh.jpg)

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/8030/dscf01448fp.th.jpg (http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf01448fp.jpg)

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/2168/dscf01659bd.th.jpg (http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf01659bd.jpg)

http://img448.imageshack.us/img448/9664/dscf01364uu.th.jpg (http://img448.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf01364uu.jpg)

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/374/dscf01792wo.th.jpg (http://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf01792wo.jpg)

http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/3564/dscf01816jr.th.jpg (http://img457.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf01816jr.jpg)

playtym

07-05-2006, 07:42 PM

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/4968/turbodak013ee.th.jpg (http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?image=turbodak013ee.jpg)

http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/7050/turbodak027eq.th.jpg (http://img271.imageshack.us/my.php?image=turbodak027eq.jpg)

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2510/turbodak034qi.th.jpg (http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=turbodak034qi.jpg)

playtym

07-05-2006, 07:43 PM

Casa C-212
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/4339/casac212014ph.th.jpg (http://img355.imageshack.us/my.php?image=casac212014ph.jpg)

Harvard
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/6681/harvard015jo.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=harvard015jo.jpg)

Impala
http://img420.imageshack.us/img420/6566/impala013ub.th.jpg (http://img420.imageshack.us/my.php?image=impala013ub.jpg)

http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/9420/impala023vc.th.jpg (http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?image=impala023vc.jpg)

playtym

07-05-2006, 08:02 PM

http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/3841/alouetteiii01of086io.th.jpg (http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alouetteiii01of086io.jpg)

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/1954/alouetteiii02of088vn.th.jpg (http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alouetteiii02of088vn.jpg)

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/216/alouetteiii03of084la.th.jpg (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alouetteiii03of084la.jpg)

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/2126/alouetteiii04of088mb.th.jpg (http://img391.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alouetteiii04of088mb.jpg)

http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/5479/alouetteiii05of081qr.th.jpg (http://img323.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alouetteiii05of081qr.jpg)

http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/463/alouetteiii06of087wo.th.jpg (http://img460.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alouetteiii06of087wo.jpg)

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/9961/alouetteiii07of082ab.th.jpg (http://img456.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alouetteiii07of082ab.jpg)

http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/7609/alouetteiii08of088vt.th.jpg (http://img348.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alouetteiii08of088vt.jpg)

playtym

07-05-2006, 08:10 PM

http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/5403/westlandwasp01of044go.th.jpg (http://img471.imageshack.us/my.php?image=westlandwasp01of044go.jpg)

http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/1830/westlandwasp02of042aa.th.jpg (http://img476.imageshack.us/my.php?image=westlandwasp02of042aa.jpg)

http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/5388/westlandwasp04of040la.th.jpg (http://img471.imageshack.us/my.php?image=westlandwasp04of040la.jpg)

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/8333/westlandwasp03of048gx.th.jpg (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=westlandwasp03of048gx.jpg)

Nordwind

07-05-2006, 09:05 PM

I found me an other picture, here you go!
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/7785/700bs.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=700bs.jpg)

calimero2

07-07-2006, 09:21 AM

What's this? I had it filed under "Buffel" but that's not it.

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7789/srilankan2004013od.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

playtym

07-07-2006, 09:28 AM

What's this? I had it filed under "Buffel" but that's not it.

It's a Bulldog. Basically the same thing, just built on the Samil 20 chassis rather than a Unimog. The driver also sits on the right rather than the left.

I don't have any other pics of it on my work pc, but I'll post them later when I get home.

playtym

07-07-2006, 09:30 AM

Hmmm. Looking at the pictures now I notice some marked differences between the Bulldog I know and the vehicle calimero2 queried.

http://img302.imageshack.us/img302/9648/bulldog013ux.jpg

http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/8518/bulldog026uc.jpg

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/2290/bulldog033hw.jpg

I know Buffels were exported to Sri Lanka. I quick search on Google turned up this on Wikipedia - 'Buffel mine protected APC - Body now built by SL army Military with modifications.' Here's the link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Lankan_Army

At first glance I thought it was the Bulldog, but they seem to have just done some mods to the original Buffels to end up with a similar looking vehicle. Every website I've found just refers to them as Buffels so I assume they've just carried on using this name - even though it's now a very different vehicle.

This link has an article about SLA manufactured 'Buffels' - http://www.tamilnet.com/art.html?catid=13&artid=11737

Another link refering to Sri Lankan Buffels - http://www.tamilnet.com/art.html?catid=13&artid=16683

And their official army website - although I couldn't see anything regarding the vehicles they use - http://www.army.lk/index1.php

calimero2

07-07-2006, 12:25 PM

(Post deleted)

playtym

07-07-2006, 01:13 PM

Hm. This is the only Bulldog picture that I have and it looks different too:

Sorry - see the post above yours. I must have been editing my earlier double post, and searching the net when you posted this.

Hellfish

07-07-2006, 01:15 PM

Those don't look like SA Bulldogs in that picture. Botswana, Namibia? Maybe Zambia, Zimbabwe? Almost looks like those troopers are wearing old RLI uniforms.

playtym

07-07-2006, 01:21 PM

Sorry for the confusion guys - I think they're Sri Lankan built Buffels.

They bought South African Buffels and then apparently modified them, but still call them Buffels.

See my post a bit further up (the second one with three pictures of the Bulldog) for some links etc.

calimero2

07-07-2006, 03:35 PM

Those vehicles are probably Unicorns, build in Sri Lanka and indeed probably based on the Buffel. There's hardly any info or imagery available, but I think there are several versions around.

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/3686/unicornsri022yf.th.jpg (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=unicornsri022yf.jpg)

playtym

07-07-2006, 06:48 PM

I must admit that this one piqued my curiosity. When I first saw the vehicle was right hand drive I never thought it was a Buffel - every one I've seen is left hand drive - that's what made me ID it as a Bulldog.
Buffels also have the original Unimog portal axles - which these vehicles don't seem to have - although from these pictures I can't really be certain.

When I got home from work and posted the pictures of the Bulldog I realised I was wrong with that assumption.

I was in a rush earlier as I was going out, and could only find the 'Buffel' links I posted. The whole time I was out I was wondering whether they'd confused a Buffel and a Bulldog as, if these were the modified Buffels I'd found in my search, they'd gone from being left hand drive vehicles to right hand drive - and also lost the portal axles.

But the big clue was the 'Unicorn' name given by calimero2.

As I really hate a mystery like this I've been searching on Google and this is what I came up with...

Here they refer to a Unicorn Buffel, which may be the vehicle in the pic calimero2 posted - but there's no picture in the article so that's just a guess on my part - http://www.sundayobserver.lk/2006/04/23/sec02.html

calimero2: Do you have a link to the site that Unicorn picture came from?

Then I found these...

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/9778/zp05from6fq.jpg

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5360/zp05from17ak.jpg

It seems that this a new vehicle that Sri Lanka has just developed called a 'Unibuffel.'

Check out this link - http://www.sundayobserver.lk/2004/04/25/fea22.html

Reading the section of the article where they refer to the price of the vehicle being 3 million rupees I'd say that it's the same vehicle they were referring to in the article I linked to earlier.

This link has an article about SLA manufactured 'Buffels' - http://www.tamilnet.com/art.html?catid=13&artid=11737

calimero2

07-08-2006, 05:09 AM

calimero2: Do you have a link to the site that Unicorn picture came from?

The picture was sent to me by a friend, I don't know where he found it. Here's an image of a Unicorn I took from my TV screen two weeks ago:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6015/unicornsri057cb.th.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=unicornsri057cb.jpg)

Then I found these...
It seems that this a new vehicle that Sri Lanka has just developed called a 'Unibuffel.'

Here's a picture of a Sri Lankan UN contingent in Haiti. Those vehicles appear to be Unibuffels as well.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6046/srilankanmissiontohaiti20047po.th.jpg (http://img132.imageshack.us/my.php?image=srilankanmissiontohaiti20047po.jpg)

Trailblazer

07-08-2006, 06:07 PM

Any pics of those by any chance, Baboon6? Oh ,and, guys, can you please help me in IDing this baby below and, if possible, show the way to more pics?
The pic is of a Olifant 1 ARV ---disguised as a missile launcher
aye
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

07-08-2006, 06:36 PM

Any pics of those by any chance, Baboon6? Oh ,and, guys, can you please help me in IDing this baby below and, if possible, show the way to more pics?
The "beast " in question is a Centurion ---Olifant 1A ARV-- disguised as a missile launcher --I have contact with the person who built the attachments and due to his help and VEG--have managed to build a model--from 3 pics a few sketches and 2 outlines
More pics here
http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f329/BARV/Olifant%201A%20ARV--Build/Olies%20pics/
aye
Trailblazer
(BARV)

Dark Avenger

07-10-2006, 04:02 AM

Thanks Trailblazer!

Dark Avenger

07-12-2006, 06:07 AM

A couple of interesting links. Don't know if they have been posted before, but nice nevertheless.
http://www.sa-transport.co.za/military/army/army.html
http://www.sa-transport.co.za/military/military_index.html