South African National Defence Force

[Dark Avenger]

One more link: http://www.csir.co.za/plsql/ptl0002/PTL0002_PGE082_PROJ?DIVISION_NO=1000024&PROJECT_NO=3610594. The G-Bat 4X4 Light-weight air-droppable rapid reaction vehicle is based on the short wheel base Daimler-Chrysler G-wagen. Beautiful little gem!

[BeetleCrusher]

[/URL]
[URL="http://img391.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alouetteiii04of088mb.jpg"]http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/2126/alouetteiii04of088mb.th.jpg (http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alouetteiii01of086io.jpg)

http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/5479/alouetteiii05of081qr.th.jpg (http://img323.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alouetteiii05of081qr.jpg)

Any idea where this Alo was photographed, what sqdn? This may settle a dispute on another list...

[playtym]

Any idea where this Alo was photographed, what sqdn? This may settle a dispute on another list...

I don't know which squadron etc, but those pics are from the Air Force Mueseum in Pretoria.

[BeetleCrusher]

Thanks, pretty rusted up by the looks of things.:-(
I don't know which squadron etc, but those pics are from the Air Force Mueseum in Pretoria.

[Hellfish]

Have you guys seen these Mk1B photos before?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/bloubulfanatic/Olifant_Mk1B_4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/bloubulfanatic/Olifant_Mk1B_3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/bloubulfanatic/Olifant_Mk1B_2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/bloubulfanatic/Olifant_Mk1B_1.jpg

[Nordwind]

Daaammnnn! Those are new to me! Very nice, do you know the story behind these pics?

[Hellfish]

I talked to the guy who took them and he gave me permission to post them here. I could certainly ask.

[Nordwind]

Cool thanks, they look almost brand new.

[sa_bushwar]

One of these is currently in a shocking state at Armour meuseum in Tempe. Will dig up the picture tonight on my laptop...

Here is the one at the armour museum, Bloemfontein...

[sa_bushwar]

Does anybody know the history or purpose of this vehicle?

[andrew_rsa]

Does anybody know the history or purpose of this vehicle?

i think it was used as an anti riot vehicle but im not sure.. could be 100% wrong

[Dark Avenger]

It's most certainly an APC, with a really low silhouette, but as it has what appears to be an obstacle clearing blade at the front, Andrew may be right about it being used in the internal security role. But then again, who in their right mind would build an indicator light into a dozer blade?!?

[andrew_rsa]

yeah i vaguely remember seeing these things when i lived in southafrica.. but still i think they resemble a coackroach (one of those devices that pull aeroplanes at an airport into place)

[Dark Avenger]

Well, who knows. Just to cover every base, I posted a question at the Missing-Lynx modellers' forum (See: http://www.network54.com/Forum/47209/message/1153994657/Please+identify+this+South+African+APC+prototype ). We may get a response from the fellows there, and rest assured that I'll give you the heads-up the moment someone responds.

[andrew_rsa]

n1 :) hopefully someone out there will know what it is:)

[sa_bushwar]

Some more photos of the un-identified APC - anybody with info?

[Dark Avenger]

We got a response. Someone believes it may be a prototype command vehicle for G6 SPG batteries. http://www.network54.com/Forum/47209/message/1154038520/APC- . The quest is still on...

[Vorster]

AC 100. That was what it was called. There were a few other prototypes known as AC 200 and AC 300. The project was culled due to the high cost of the vehicle. According to a good friend of mine who worked on the project it was a very exceptional vehicle and was regared to be superior to the Ratel.

Unfortunately as with Soetdorings, Veldskoen and some others the Army preferd to upgrade the Ratel as it was a) more cost effective in light of the large amount and types operated by the SADF b)required less retraining of both the standing army and the citizen force.

I will post some photos of the other prototypes as soon as I have scanned them along with some more gen.

[Vorster]

Guys I see there is alot of intrest in the weapons and history of the SADF. History is still a very emotive issue as was seen in the posts in this thread. Unfortunately our military history is clouded in secrecy (all documents relating to military matters after 1965, which is also incedentally the start of the bush war, is still classified) and propaganda from both sides.

I will not get mixed up in discussions on the racial issues of the army but I will try and help with info and pics of SADF equipment, as well as the history of the border war which I am keenly studying with the eye on writing a book on the last battles in 87/88 in which we trounched the cubans and the angolans.

Herewith some pics.

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/4387/img09694ss.jpg

Late version Olifant Mk1a

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/3171/olifantmk1boptimalprototype7ky.jpg

Olifant Mk1b optimal prototype. Fitted with Chobham armor believe it or not. Only one converted.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1747/olifantarv1vp.jpg

Olifant Mk1a ARV

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/8825/dsc030603ox.jpg

G5 in action a year ago

I will post more pics with time enjoy.

[Dark Avenger]

Vorster, you're the MAN!!! :)

I see that you also answered the question I posted at Missing Lynx.

[Ironsight06]

Nice pics Vorster. Especially the one of the Olifant MK1B. Hasn't it been renamed to the MK2 by the way?

[Vorster]

No problem guys. There were 2 prototypes of Mk1b the normal one with slab sided armor and the Optimal version in the photo above. The idea with 1b was that it would serve as an interim vehicle while a new tank was designed on the basis of expierence gained on the TTD project (in which by the by we were aided by the germans).

After 94 the need for a new tank dissapeared, and the mk1b prototypes along with design drawings of a new fighter, satelites all ready in orbit and nuclear weapons was shelved. Despite this the army knew that it needed an upgrade very badly for the mk1a which by now is almost 20 years old. So it was decided to revive mk1b albeit with alot of new tech in it. Externally it is the same, torsion bar suspension, chobham and so forth. It is the gunnery and fire control systems which have recieved a total upgrade with a big injection of technology from TTD and associated research which have been continuing for a while now.

Still the army knows even Mk2 is outdated and that the 105 has died (they tested our newest ammo against a T72 they bought from poland in 89 and found it only able to penetrate the front from very close and had to take side or rear shots to take the T down. The other 72 they bought is kept running as a demonstrator at the armor school and I had the opportunity the other day to see it in action) so they are looking for replacements. The army is very picky and don't want any eastern european things so the best contender to date is the Leopard 2a5 and the Merkava. Remeber these are only rumors and the wishes of my buddies at the school of armor and wether this will become reality is another thing.

Inside info puts the first Mk2 on the ground in a month or two time according to one source, according to another more trustworthy source BEA hasn't even started convertion on the first mk2 as yet. But what I do know is that as soon as the first unit is on the ground I will be heading for bloem for a show and tell and will post some pics for you blokes to dream over.

[Ironsight06]

But what I do know is that as soon as the first unit is on the ground I will be heading for bloem for a show and tell and will post some pics for you blokes to dream over.
That would be awesome woot

[ElHombre]

thanks for the olifant pics. those are hard to come by.

But what I do know is that as soon as the first unit is on the ground I will be heading for bloem for a show and tell and will post some pics for you blokes to dream over.

'dream'? more likely drool. ;-)

[Vorster]

Pics? I've got many more. Ask and you shall recieve a DVD. Mostly pics I took while in bloem the last time. Next time I am down there I will get pics of the experimentals standing around at the school as well as some of the earlier armor. The Olifant Mk1b optimal forms part of the museum. The turret is completely stripped inside. It is huge compared to the T55 standing next to it which I also climed into.

[Ironsight06]

Pics? I've got many more. Ask and you shall recieve a DVD.
Maybe you can put a big .rar file on the net. Will save you the pain of uploading them individually.

[sa_bushwar]

Some more SADF funnies seen at the Armour museum, Bloemfontein.

[sa_bushwar]

2 photos of the TTD...

[JAZZ]

FYI Attached identity of some of South Africas IFV's

[Vorster]

Ja wel not cuite. I think it won't do to rar 3 gig of photos. Plus I have to be a bit selective. Don't want to sit with my ass in jail.

[Ericsson]

Col Jan D Breytenbach, (in the middle)founder of the three best Units in Africas. You are very modest
does three Unit where part of the world best...
now it's the
http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/South_Africa/SF_Brigade/S_special_forces.jpg
SPECIAL FORCES BRIGADE

[Nordwind]

I figured I'd add a bit more to this thread which has become, well quite huge. First off I've got some more nice Gripen photos and one video. They are from Gripen.com

THE VIDEO (13 MB) - http://www.gripen.com/NR/rdonlyres/B9B449D5-7192-4930-A139-

http://img139.imagevenue.com/loc436/th_18203_Gripen_and_Hawk_South_Africa_436lo.jpg (http://img139.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=18203_Gripen_and_Hawk_South_Africa_436lo.jpg)
The Gripen in flight with the Hawk

http://img152.imagevenue.com/loc509/th_18209_Gripen_over_Pretoria_509lo.jpg (http://img152.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=18209_Gripen_over_Pretoria_509lo.jpg)
A Gripen over SA's administrative capital, Pretoria

The next 3 are of the Cape Town Highlanders, a reserve infantry unit.
http://img18.imagevenue.com/loc456/th_18229_65_456lo.jpg (http://img18.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=18229_65_456lo.jpg)
http://img41.imagevenue.com/loc511/th_18234_66_511lo.jpg (http://img41.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=18234_66_511lo.jpg)
http://img140.imagevenue.com/loc334/th_18241_67_334lo.jpg (http://img140.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=18241_67_334lo.jpg)

[reccelite]

Does some one know what ana when are the expected deliveries for Gripen??

Best regards

Reccelite

[Pte Schwede]

Here's some South African troops overseeing an election in the small island nation of The Comoros.

http://img146.imagevenue.com/loc256/th_57602_52.jpg (http://img146.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc256&image=57602_52.jpg)


http://img18.imagevenue.com/loc293/th_57611_54.jpg (http://img18.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc293&image=57611_54.jpg)

http://img15.imagevenue.com/loc283/th_57616_55.jpg (http://img15.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc283&image=57616_55.jpg)



I belive that the southafrican webgear theese troops are wearing is the
same as the Swedish combatdivers used to wear.

Brgds

[Nordwind]

They arrived late last month and will be in service by 2008. Here's a short article about it. http://www.af.mil.za/news/2006/103.htm

On an other note, here's two pictures one Eurocopter and the other are a few Rooivalks.
http://img150.imagevenue.com/loc462/th_73089_73_462lo.jpg (http://img150.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=73089_73_462lo.jpg)
http://img137.imagevenue.com/loc451/th_73101_74_451lo.jpg (http://img137.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=73101_74_451lo.jpg)

[moby]

Hi All

Looking for original photos for the military section of my site, South or Southern Africa only.

Thanks
Moby
sa-transport.co.za

[Nordwind]

Look through this thread, you'll find alot of photos. http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=74554

[moby]

You've got to be joking:cantbeli: , there are 189 pages in that thread:) .

Thanks for the link though, I had not seen that thread yet.

I browsed through the first 5 or so but its impossible to tell if the photos belong to the poster or are from another site, I cannot put images from other sites on my site (copyright etc), thats why they have to be original photos.

Cheers
Moby

[Nordwind]

Hmmm for me there are only 13 pages, which isn't much when you have the time to skim through them, but yeah i can see how the copyright issues could prove a bit difficult. Well maybe you could send a private message to Baboon or Hellfish which have posted alot in these two threads and they might be able to hook you up, I think a guy by the name of Vorster or something like that had some really good photos.

[moby]

Sorry, my mistake :oops: I clicked on the top and its 189 posts, not that harsh, I will go and have a look later in the morning, (3.41am here) TG its a public holiday.

[Hellfish]

Daaammnnn! Those are new to me! Very nice, do you know the story behind these pics?

Here's what the guy had to say (sorry for the late reply!):


I took the photos at a rather low-key military history festival that was held in Pretoria . Date of the festival was sometime in June 2006.

The only reason I attended was that SANDF vehicles were exhibited http://com-central.net/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif

Best regards from S.A.

[Nordwind]

No worries Moby :) And thanks for letting me know Hellfish, can't blame your friend for showing up.

[PARABAT]

For all the SA guys out there,check out this site of all ex PARABATS & South African SF.Please no wannabees & weirdos with tall war stories & knive collections.Good site about the real hunters & warriors.

http://airbornesoldier.com/Forums/index.php

[moby]

Hi Parabat

Nice looking site, have sent you a pm.

Cheers
Moby

[Deftoner]

Wow, I've been on this site for ages and never seen this thread.... Good to see so many fellow countrymen showing up.

[ORLPIR]

Hi

yes - good to see some SA's on this site. The older photos bring back some fond memories.

Cheers

[boerbull]

Hi all
I am new here, very happy to see SA is very allive on the web. Does anybody have some more pics of the rinkhals and is it currentley in use in the sandf?

[moby]

Who knows anything about a Velskoen (sp) took photos of a wierd vehicle in PE awhile back , when I phoned the army base to find out what it was they said it was a velskoen, never did find out whether they were joking or not but I put the photos up on my site under velskoen
http://www.sa-transport.co.za/military/army/velskoen_pe_2_sec.JPG

Cheers
Moby

[BoonDock]

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5193/373ht.pngI didn't know South Africa had highland units. Whats with the Balmoral?

I've been meaning to post here for a long time, just never got around to to it.
The person in the picture is me (Then Lance-Sgt in the Cape Town Highlanders, now LT in Durban Light Infantry).

The photo was taken by me with a timer setting on a really crappy little Digimax 800K Samsung Digital Camera around dawn (which is why the light is so bad) during Exercise Oxide. Attached are some more of the photos taken on that exercise.

John

[BoonDock]

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5193/373ht.pngI didn't know South Africa had highland units. Whats with the Balmoral?

In reply to the question about the highland units, South Africa has a number of them with a long and proud tradition. For a little info see http://justdone.co.za/SAMU/Info_Units.asp?UnitID=106

Attached are some pics of us on parade through Cape Town a couple of years back (2004).

John

[moby]

Finally someone to answer the question that woman have asked for years, whats under the kilt?:)

[BoonDock]

Here's some pictures that I found lying around on my computer. They are not mine, just what I collected on the internet over the years so enjoy :)
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5706/27xr.th.png (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=27xr.png)

Person sitting out of the Driver's hatch is Capt Stuart Bain (Then LT) of the Cape Town Highlanders. SANDF Reserve.

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5193/373ht.th.png (http://img202.imageshack.us/my.php?image=373ht.png)

Already posted about this one

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/758/496nw.th.png (http://img202.imageshack.us/my.php?image=496nw.png)

Taken by me during Exercise Ice-Bear II. Lohatla (aka Army Combat Training Centre aka Army Battle School aka P.W. Botha Training Area). Fire was started by a 7.62 BMG Co-axially mounted on a Ratel 20 which was shot over the range limits and set alight the veld which jumped the Fire-breaks to burn millions of Hectares of veld and farmland. We fought it for three days before we had to go home. Will post more photos of this in next post.

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/6222/1190mi.th.png (http://img202.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1190mi.png)
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/7020/1204in.th.png (http://img202.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1204in.png)
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/2866/1318ut.th.png (http://img202.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1318ut.png)

These three were taken by Lt Ian Long (CTH) http://www.cthighlanders.co.za

http://www.geocities.com/sa_bushwar2/120405025.jpg

This photo was taken by Lt Ian Long (CTH). It was originally posted at my old website (as acknowledged in the outdated url lib.sun.ac.za). Also during IceBear II

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/7703/32mc.th.png (http://img469.imageshack.us/my.php?image=32mc.png)
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/6552/139sm.th.png (http://img469.imageshack.us/my.php?image=139sm.png)

Also taken by Lt Ian Long


I just thought I would get the attributions right. No problem with Nordwind posting them, but they need to be attributed correctly.

John

[BoonDock]

Finally someone to answer the question that woman have asked for years, whats under the kilt?:)

There are a number of answers to that depending on your gender, your attractiveness (depending on gender) and how inebriated I am at the time I am asked the question..
Possible answers include:
- Nothing's worn, it's all in "as new" condition
- Only way for you to find out is to check it for yourself
- etc ad nauseum.. :-)

[BoonDock]

Taken by me during Exercise Ice-Bear II. Lohatla (aka Army Combat Training Centre aka Army Battle School aka P.W. Botha Training Area). Fire was started by a 7.62 BMG Co-axially mounted on a Ratel 20 which was shot over the range limits and set alight the veld which jumped the Fire-breaks to burn millions of Hectares of veld and farmland. We fought it for three days before we had to go home. Will post more photos of this in next post.


As Promised:

Two more from Lt Ian Long.

[BoonDock]

Fire was started by a 7.62 BMG Co-axially mounted on a Ratel 20 which was shot over the range limits and set alight the veld which jumped the Fire-breaks to burn millions of Hectares of veld and farmland. We fought it for three days before we had to go home. Will post more photos of this in next post.

More from IceBear One. Note the frost etc (That's why the name). Also more of the fire.

[moby]

On an other note, here's two pictures one Eurocopter http://img150.imagevenue.com/loc462/th_73089_73_462lo.jpg (http://img150.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=73089_73_462lo.jpg)


Okay seeing as we are putting info to photos, I took this one in Port Elizabeth on the 26/7/2006, we were doing a rescue exercise and had a group of schoolkids as patients.
The helicopter is actually a MBB BK117A-3, SAAF-385 ex Ciskei Defence Force currently with 15 Sqn.

Cheers
Moby

[BoonDock]

Some photos from my Platoon Commander's course in 2003. Tell me if i should post more..

JD

[moby]

There are a number of answers to that depending on your gender, :-)

Yeah yeah yeah, my husband and kids think I am great, but there again they would not dare say otherwiserofl

[BoonDock]

Here are a few photos from the Urban Warfare Training that I did with some of our guys (Durban Light Infantry) a few months back. Done at the old 1 Recce training area on the Bluff.
JD

[BoonDock]

Here are a few photos from the Urban Warfare Training that I did with some of our guys (Durban Light Infantry) a few months back. Done at the old 1 Recce training area on the Bluff.
JD

I got an offline request to post a larger copy of this one. Here it is..
John

[Hellfish]

Great photos, BoonDock! Thanks very much for posting!

[BoonDock]

Great photos, BoonDock! Thanks very much for posting!

Always a pleasure ! Will post more if requested
JD

[boerbull]

Great pics BoonDock
I have been looking for current pics of the sandf for ages. Just joint this site a few days ago after seeing so many south africans on line. Very happy to see your photo's, please send more!

[Switek]

let me join to the choir:

great picts BoonDock, thank you for posting

[BoonDock]

Great pics BoonDock
I have been looking for current pics of the sandf for ages. Just joint this site a few days ago after seeing so many south africans on line. Very happy to see your photo's, please send more!

let me join to the choir:

great picts BoonDock, thank you for posting
Thanx Guys.

Here are a bunch from a leader-group training exercise we did. Also on the Bluff. The point of this weekened was to stress the junior leaders and observe how they behaved under stress. Also for potential leaders so that we could make a more realistic observation of their performance. It is one thing to evaluate someone on general performance, but we think that if you evaluate them when they are under stress, you can make a better judgement call about whether and how they will handle the leadership rrole once they are required to do so in combat... Seems to have worked fairly well as the guys that we have selected and that have gone on course and been promoted, are now deployed on Peace-keeping in Burundi and we get good reports about their performance. Especially the platoon commander (seen in the pic with his leg cocked)
JD

[BoonDock]

Especially the platoon commander (seen in the pic with his leg cocked)

Just BTW, the rank he is wearing is the newish cammo version of the CO (Candidate Officer) rank...
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10955&d=1155387722

[BoonDock]

More pics of the Leader Group Training. The beach is a great leveller. We sent them on an eight km march along the beach four times a day, varying the load that they had to carry each time, with a different person appointed as the "stick" leader. Motivating and organising the guys when they are tired and suffering is difficult, so this gave us a good opportunity to evaluate leadership qualities.

[BoonDock]

I haven't seen any photos of one of these anywhere else. I have sent to Moby to post on http://www.sa-transport.co.za , but thought I would post here as well. They were taken a few years back at Lohatla with a really crappy little digital camera, so the quality is not good. But I thought they might still be interesting to some..
JD

[BoonDock]

Some more pics.. Limit is 10 per message...

[BoonDock]

Some photos from Ex Ice Bear I - 2001. Taken by me at Lohatla with a crappy little digital camera, so excuse the quality.

[Ironsight06]

Something I have been wondering for a while. Is that one of the TMM bridge layers captured during Operation Moduler/Hooper?

[BoonDock]

Something I have been wondering for a while. Is that one of the TMM bridge layers captured during Operation Moduler/Hooper?

You got me there.. I have no idea...
I would like to find out though...

[Hellfish]

Is that a TMM? It looks similar at first, but the bridge is deployed differently.

http://www.rbs.ru/vttv/99/polygon/images/big/most.jpg%27

[MrX]

As to the un-identified apc, it is identified now. It is Mechem`s prototype of low-profile air-transportable apc called Krokodil. Project was continued by US company TSG (producer of Buffalo and Cougar mine protected vehicles) under name Gator and later Rhino. I send more details to sa_bushwar, ask him if necessary.

[Ironsight06]

Is that a TMM? It looks similar at first, but the bridge is deployed differently.
It's my best guess. Would make sense though as some TMM's were captured in operation Moduler/Hooper. My second guess would be the Spanish aljaba truck with some kind of bridge launcher installed.

[BeetleCrusher]

Great... will pop in next time I go to Qwaqwa and see exactly what they have. Will give me an excuse to take some pics of their Locos as well... they have an amazing collection of ancient stuff by the way. :-)

I was there last week on womens day, on my way back from Qwaqwa, but got told that visits are now by appointment only... they are a working farm you know! :-)
Ah well, next time then, sorry folks but all pictures I got was the snow on the Malutis!

[moby]

Hi BeetleCrusher
Go to the trains section of my site, if you are interested in trains I have about 5000 photos there, including tons taken at Sandstone, and the military train from earlier this year.
http://www.sa-transport.co.za/trains/train_index.html
http://www.sa-transport.co.za/trains/narrow-gauge/ng_sandstone/ng_pictures.html
http://www.sa-transport.co.za/trains/narrow-gauge/ng_sandstone/uas_ngg16-113_military-train_early_am_amc06.JPG

[Nordwind]

Wow BoonDock, those are some excellent pictures! It's way too damned hard to find any decent SA Infantry pics out there, and you have provided just that. By all means, if you have more, post away. They are some great pictures!

[Vorster]

Hmm I see some blokes have intresting questions.

First off I agree with Trailblazer that is an Olifant ARV.

Zumlac was never fielded although the army is in serious need of a mobile AA platform. The Rooikat AA platform was also only tested.

The TTD was never intended to be a tank. The name says it all Tank Technology Demonstrator. It was intended to develope the ability of our local defense industry to design and build a tank. We had some serious help from the germans in the late 80s early 90s on the project. Alot of the componants are actauly Leopard 2.

The Ratel will stay for many moons to come as the army only plans to field about 300 hoefsysters (afrikaans for horse shoe). The hoefsyster is a patria 8X8 with a localy designed turret fitting a bushmaster gun (or so the rumours go I believe it will be a local 20mm). Ratel will be updated to Mk4. What those upgrades are to be I have no idea I only know it will be updated.

Olifant Mk 2 which is an improved version of Mk 1b is to be fielded soon. I saw some pics here of one on a transporter. The tank has been totaly rebuild with only the chassis being retained in the sense that the sidewalls and bottom is the same. The running gear has been updated to torsion bar and chobham has been fitted to the glassis and the turret. The turret has also been modded quiet extensively with blow out panels being added. The chance of a 120mm being fitted is zero, although LIW has developed a 120mm as well as a 125mm (based on the russian 125mm copied from a couple of T72 we bough in the late 80s from Poland) as the turret ring doesn't allow for the fitment of such a large gun. As such the comments of senior officers at the school of armor has indictated to me that they consider the 105mm to be dead and see the Mk 2 as only an interim sollution. They are aiming for a third or forth generation western MBT such as Merkava or Leopard to replace olifant.

Rooikat was a second best vehicle with a beter vehicle, although more expensive, called cheetah devloped in the late 80s. Only one prototype was build and it was considered to be alot beter than Rooikat. The army just could not afford it. So it was packed up and shipped to Germany were an informed source believes it to be. Once again the germans helped on the design and building of the Rooikat as well. Rooikat might be upgrade from the current mk 7 (I believe) configuration and a short article on the new rooikat can be found in the latest edditon of VEG. Rooikat is solely intended as a scout. Nothing more. The guys are trained to scout and tests and excersises have shown time and again that it doesn't work to take on tanks with Rooikat (a good friend of mine was ordered during an excersise to do just this and his troop was wiped out to the man as he had thought).

Vlermuis mk2 was never fielded as it is to be replaced by Wasp.

We use the ZSU 23 2 as a standard light AA gun. It is called bosvark (wild boar) and we have developed improved ammo for it.

If you blokes see guys with purple berets you have had the honor od seeing a Recce. I saw a photo here of a couple of recces firing a ZSU 23 2. Very rare as their faces are almost allways blanked out. I was told of a rather big row a while back in which Schullie Schulenberg almost ripped the balls of a few blokes from 22 SAS for posting a pic of him at a braai with them on the web. For those that don't know who Schullie is well he is the counted as the foremost expert on close in recce in the world. He is still an active recce although he does planning these days.

[Vorster]

Ok ous I will let a little secret slip. That is a Krupp bridge layer. We bought some in the late 80s. Deal was we would only mod the cab and do some other mods so that it would comply to our specs so no one would be the wiser that the west was circumventing its own arms embargo. We did capture some TMMs in angola but the early types not ones as complex as those.

[Deftoner]

Great pictures BoonDock! Its nice to see firsthand pics from our defence force. Just a question, why are some guys still in the old "browns"?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10978&stc=1&thumb=1&d=115538985

[Vorster]

Problems with supply. A guy who studued with me has a brother who recently completed his recce selection. They couldn't issue him his purple beret as there wasn't stock to be found. So with the new uniforms I have heard rumours that there are supply problems and that in some reserve units the older guys still have their browns.

I also have heard rumours that we might se an emminant replacement of the current uniforms.

[Deftoner]

Problems with supply. A guy who studued with me has a brother who recently completed his recce selection. They couldn't issue him his purple beret as there wasn't stock to be found. So with the new uniforms I have heard rumours that there are supply problems and that in some reserve units the older guys still have their browns.

I also have heard rumours that we might se an emminant replacement of the current uniforms.

Ah, supply problems. Makes sense ;)

A replacement would be good, I never really saw a use for the new camo. To me the browns blend in a little better with our vegetation. But thats just me i guess.

[BoonDock]

Great pictures BoonDock! Its nice to see firsthand pics from our defence force. Just a question, why are some guys still in the old "browns"?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10978&stc=1&thumb=1&d=115538985
Hi Detoner,
At the time not everyone had been issued with Cammos. A lot of the Reserve units were years behind in the issue. You won't see any browns any more though.
John

[BoonDock]

Problems with supply.
At the time, yes. No longer the case.
A guy who studued with me has a brother who recently completed his recce selection. They couldn't issue him his purple beret as there wasn't stock to be found. So with the new uniforms I have heard rumours that there are supply problems and that in some reserve units the older guys still have their browns.
As far as I know, there is no-one who wears browns any more.

I also have heard rumours that we might se an emminant replacement of the current uniforms.
Yes, we have heard that same rumour. I will post something on this just now.
The history of the Cammos has been quite confused. The "interim" cammos were the same pattern/style as the browns, just in the new material, then the new design came out which included the American style "Bund" (shirt that hangs out). There have been some issues with this such as the fact that the sleeves narrow too much to allow them to be folded and not having any short-sleeves. There was a huge debate at one stage about how the sleeves should be rolled up.. with the inside showing or the outside..

The latest that I hear is that there is a re-design of certain elements, including a better sleeve design and a short-sleeve version of the shirts, but for someone not intimately involved in the uniform (i.e. not wearing it themselves) the differences will probably not be readily apparent.

A policy decision a couple of years back came down that it was permissable to mix the various designs of the cammo which relaxed the "tension" about the whole issue.
I personally believe there are some design issues that need to be sorted out. For example:
There is only one "leg" pocket on the pants. There should be two The pants are designed to be "unisex" in fit. This means that they do not fit any men around the hips. This should be changed There should be epalettes (sp?) ... mostly so that a lanyard can be worn (what is an NCO without his whistle?) There should be more buttons up the front of the "Bund" so that it can be closed fully. and others which I can't think of off-hand.


John

[BoonDock]

Aim: The acquisition of an integrated soldier system for the SANDF

GENERAL INFORMATION

This project includes all the systems the individual dismounted soldier will need in battle

The project will be phased and as systems become available it will be introduced

Examples : Clothing, footwear, ratpacks, navigation,
individual comms, NBC protection

[BoonDock]

Ok ous I will let a little secret slip. That is a Krupp bridge layer. We bought some in the late 80s. Deal was we would only mod the cab and do some other mods so that it would comply to our specs so no one would be the wiser that the west was circumventing its own arms embargo. We did capture some TMMs in angola but the early types not ones as complex as those.

Thanx Vorster. Knew that there HAD to be someone out there who could ID it for me .. :-)

JD

[Vorster]

JD you not the oak from Just Done are you?

[BoonDock]

JD you not the oak from Just Done are you?
<grin>
That's me.. John Dovey and yes, I publish books http://www.justdone.co.za/ and run the Army Talk list http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/ArmyTalk/

JD

[BoonDock]

Here is a pic from a friend of mine (Danie) who was in the (Army) Bike Squad in the 80s. It was taken by one of his mates when he did this jump.

Enjoy
JD

[BoonDock]

Taken in 1995. Yours truly extreme left. While I was still with the Natal Carbineers.

[Nordwind]

Great pics man, you look like a hardass in that pic haha. Keep dishing the great pics out!

[Nordwind]

Is any of that phased in yet (Project Warrior)? When do they plan to begin and when do they estimate it will be complete?

[BoonDock]

Is any of that phased in yet (Project Warrior)? When do they plan to begin and when do they estimate it will be complete?

Sorry, I have no idea. That was taken from a 2002 Presentation. I suppose elements of it are in place. I think that the cost and pace of external deployments has overtaken the great plans. There is now a "2020 Vision" which is being designed. Looks like a lot of things will be going back to old ways of doing them ...

[BoonDock]

Great pics man, you look like a hardass in that pic haha. Keep dishing the great pics out!

<grin>
The guy second from the right battled to talk.. He had been attacked and his throat was cut. He crawled a long way to find help and was almost dead. The black guy was killed a year after this photo was taken. Wierd.. We all walk with ghosts.. Speaking of which, have you taken a look at my Roll of Honour site at http://www.justdone.co.za/ROH/ ?

JD

[BoonDock]

Natal Carbineers receive the National Colours.
These photos are from a parade held in Durban in 1987 (as far as I remember) where the Carbineers and 4 other regiments received their "National Colours". I was tasked to "uncase" the colours. Sorry about the bad quality of the photos..

[BoonDock]

The Cape Town March was an annual event. It was for teams of 10 who had to walk together for the whole distance. Approx 40kms out from Cape Town the first day. Sleep over at Noordhoek, then back to Cape Town via a different route the next day.
In this picture, taken in 94 or 95 (don't remember anymore), our team. Units from left to right.
Not sure, three girls graduates of Women's College (George), Infantry Colonel, 44 Para, Natal Carbineers (me), 1 SSB (Armour)
Kneeling: SACC (South African Coloured Corps) and Medic.

[BoonDock]

Yours Truly (with my Brother) home on pass from the Border (South West Africa/Namibia - Angola).
The orange/red band is the "Ride Safe Band" used to make us visible on the road when we were hitch-hiking to and from camp.
Wearing flash, stable belt and white putties from 5 SAI (5th South African Infantry Battalion) which converted the browns into a "Parade" dress (9a)

[BoonDock]

Photos from Section Leader's course in 91. 30 Days in Boshoek.
Photo 1: Leopard Crawl with a FN MAG (LM)
Photo 2: View from a Puma while doing Chopper Drills
Photo 3: Bath Time :-)
Photo 4: Shower Time (behind a SAMIL Water Bunker)
Photo 5: Walking back from "Bathing"
Photo 6: Vehicle Drills : Immediate Action Drills on hitting a landmine
Photo 7: Monkey Walk: Movement with a FN MAG
Photo 8: The course photo
Photo 9: Leopard crawl: Two people on an FN MAG

[D.Ranger]

good job fella's.... good to see on an international website... makes me wonder what it would have been like to join the SANDF instead of the IDF... Would love to see some SF in here though....

keep up the good work!!!woot

[BoonDock]

good job fella's.... good to see on an international website... makes me wonder what it would have been like to join the SANDF instead of the IDF... Would love to see some SF in here though....

keep up the good work!!!woot

SADF and IDF were pretty similar I think. Both of us carried Galils (R4/5), we had very similar uniforms and we had a lot of input from the IDF..

As for the SF stuff.. I have lots of SF photos, but they are for a book I am preparing for publication called "We Fear Naught but God" by Paul Els (check out my website at http://www.justdone.co.za under the "Forthcoming Attractions"

There are quite a few photos in the book..

I have also been following the US related debate on OPSEC and PERSEC and find it amusing. We used to have draconian restrictions on what and where you were allowed to use a camera, and in fact cameras were banned or confiscated when we were deployed to the Border... so there are relatively few decent photos from that period..
Most of the photos you see are either "official" or from smuggled cameras.. The ones I posted about the buffel and the landmine (did I post them here yet) are from Angola and the camera was one of the few that made it through the searches when we came out...
JD

[ren0312]

Sadly it's true, aids is crippling the SANDF and I agree that they are not half the force the SADF was. (this is just by what I hear, I don't have any experience with any of the two) I would still say that the SANDF is still the most capable armed forces of Africa (some would argue that its not much of a brag) It's just a shame how a good thing can be tossed away and changed into such an embarassment from what it used to be. Still I would appreciate it if you would abstain from the mockery because these men and women who are in the SANDF are a step up from the people commiting the crime in the country. At least they have a job and trying to make a success of themselves. So just a little bit of respect for these people please. Thanks

Well I do think the Egyptian, Libyan, Algerian, and Moroccan armed forces are more than a match for the SADF right now, Egypt is definitely better than SA, but as for Algeria, Morroco, and Libya, I really do not know, but I suspect they are quite formidable as well, and as for the person who dismissed the SADF as a mob, can't you give constructive critcism for a change, I know that the old SADF was in much better condition during the apartheid era, but the new SADF is a work in progress, and I think things will much get better as time progresses, or do you think Blacks simply are inherently not as militarily capable as White, but that said, AIDS and affirmative action is not helping things either, I really do not think there is much of a justification anymore for having a defence budget above 2 to 2.5 per cent of GDP considering the changed security situation after the aparthied era.

[moby]

Well I do think the Egyptian, Libyan, Algerian, and Moroccan armed forces

I think Nordwind was referring to the more traditionally African countries:)

[moby]

Photo 3: Bath Time :-)


So what that other discussion about uniforms :bash:

[Nordwind]

I think Nordwind was referring to the more traditionally African countries:)

Yup I was referring more to sub-saharan Africa where the SANDF would more likely be deployed than northen Africa (I am aware they were in Sudan).

[BoonDock]

So what that other discussion about uniforms :bash:
<grin> I'm not sure what you mean. Take a look at this photo (http://www.sa-soldier.com/data/03_photographs/03_photos_detail.php?photoid=109) on SA-Soldier and you will see that this was no uncommon experience...
We got used to having almost no modesty. You spent two years living with, sleeping next to, eating with and talking to the same bunch of guys in such close proximity that issues of modesty practically disappeared.. This is one of the things that makes the new army so wierd.. having women around that now you can't use the piss-lily's ? Or you now have to put up screens around the "go-karts"? Strange..

JD

[BoonDock]

Yup I was referring more to sub-saharan Africa where the SANDF would more likely be deployed than northen Africa (I am aware they were in Sudan).
Are... the word is ARE (in Sudan that is).

What is interesting for me is to watch the comments made by people who know sweet fanny adams about the SANDF pontificating about it. I know that you (Nordwind) qualified your statements by pointing out your lack of knowledge about the internals of the SANDF, but the fact remains that people are looking at the wrong things.

It is my belief that the ANC (et al) had absolutely no idea what was involved in running/having a "conventional" (used in the broadest sense) military. I have heard that in the negotiating process, and immidiately thereafter, when MK commanders and ANC leadeship members, were taken on tours of the military bases and facilities, they were gob-smacked by th extent of it all, and only slowly came to realise what they had been facing in terms of a conventional (in the strictly army sense of the word) opponent. They literally had no idea...
You must remember that MK never (I speak under correction, but I think I am correct) mounted any operations in South Africa itself. One of the complaints of the cadres who have spoken out since 1994, was that they were sent for all this training in Moscow etc and they were never permitted to use it in South Africa. For most soldiers in the SADF, they never even thought of the MK as an opponent. The war was in Angola and South West Africa against SWAPO and FAPLA et al.. and if there were a few MK guys mixed up in that lot (as apparently there were) then it never even raised a blip on their radars..
The ANC was incredible nervous of the SADF/SANDF when they came to power as they didn't understand how it was possible for them to make the change as peacefully as they did (I guess there will be speculation about this process for many years to come, as a lot of other people didn't understand it either). The proceeded with almost unseemly haste to impliment legislation passing control of the military into civilian hands. Unfortunately, in this process they got confused. They thought that the military could be handled like any other State organ. For this reason, they started changing the military to be run along coporate lines, with senior officers becoming "managers" and not "leaders" etc etc. This has, in my opinion, led to some of the most discouraging changes in the SANDF.

What is truly encouraging though, is watching the process of change that has started now with what I hear is called "Vision 2020". What I hear is that this vision will return the Army (and I guess the other services) to an organisation that runs in a unique way, not part of the civil service. These changes are things like going back to a brigade structure (moving away from the "formations") etc with command and control delegated correctly down the chain in MILITARY organisations.

All that aside, people also forget (and the media is the prime example of this) that the Army is NOT just the Regulars, but that the Reserves (Citizen Force) is the component that has done the bulk of fighting, under every military tradition that we have in this country, with the Regulars providing only specialised units, Support, Training etc.

The reserves have been ignored and misunderstood since 1994, but in the last two to three years a new understanding has started percolating through the organisation. Once reserves were "permitted" to deploy on external operations, the realisation struck home that not only was it cheaper and more cost-effective to field reserve units, but that their unit cohesion, morale and discipline was far in excess of that of the regular units and, possibly more importantly, the issue of HIV soldiers was a lot easier to deal with in the Reserves.. If a soldier is tested as HIV+ in the regulars, they have to house, feed and treat him for as long as he stays alive. In the reserve, none of this is needed. They are simply not called up for service...
This might sound a little calluous, but I think it is a pretty significant factor.

In addition to this, I can testify from my Reserve experience that the soldiers that we have now are on average fitter, better educated and better motivated than the normal National Servicemen who formed the bulk of the man-power in the SADF. This is the case because every man is a volunteer, has to compete for his place in the regiment (we select 30 out of 200 applicants on average). He is tested medically and psycologically before enlistment. He must have a Matric pass, must speak, read and write English fluently and must be of the correct age (younger than 24) on enlistment. The troops that I have been training are incredibly fit and accustomed to enduring hardship. There is nothing physical that I can throw at them that phases them in the least.. they simply get on and do what has been requested of them I believe that the troops that we are turning out now are amoungst the finest infantrymen in the world, never mind Africa, and I would back them against all comers...
One thing which has been lacking is competent leadership as a lot of SADF (mostly white) soldiers left the SANDF in droves after 1994. This is also true of the Reserves. Unfortunately, affirmative action and other silly-minded policies replaced some of those leaders with people who were patently unable to do the job. This was a lot less prevalent in the reserves. What is happening now, is that we are starting to get bright young men who are working their way up the ranks. These organically "grown" leaders are being schooled in the old way of soldiering, by people like myself and a lot of others, that looks at the brutal reality of the battlefield and strives to prepare them for that. We are stressing and sweating them as much as possible, both as an aide to identifying leadership qualities under simulated battlefield conditions, as to prepare them to be able to think in those conditions no matter what the circumstances.
Our troops, deployed a few weeks back to Burundi, won the evaluations during pre-deployment training. I think this is an incredible affirmation for us as it proves we are doing something right.

As an interesting aside, our one platoon commander got into trouble with the powers that be ... because he stood up to pretty senior officers (and him only a Candidate Officer) because he put himself on a limb for what he believed was right for the soldiers in HIS platoon. That should tell you more about what is happening than any media report would. Take a look at the photos I posted about "Urban Warfare Training" and tell me that these are AIDS ridden geriatrics who are a pushover? I will laugh at you. These are fit, strong, dedicated Soldiers who are man for man as good as you will get anywhere.

Another thing. No such thing as affirmative action where I come from.. Selection on merit. Course qualified. That's all.

JD

PS: Please excuse the rant. I think it is justified, but I am not sure of the protocol here and if I should have moved this to another forum. If so, I apologise.

[baboon6]

Great post Boondock! I have some questions for you

1) How many soldiers is your unit allowed to have on its establishment? I know none of the reserve units are anywhere near full battalion/regiment strength
2) How often do you guys get to train?

[moby]

PS: Please excuse the rant. I think it is justified, but I am not sure of the protocol here and if I should have moved this to another forum. If so, I apologise.

I don't see it as a rant, its a very valuable inside view into what is happening in our army right now, from someone who knows what they are talking about, which is refreshing these days, especially if a lot of overseas people only have the media to rely on for their knowledge. The media unfortunately tend to see things from whatever view is newsworthy at the time, as current world events have just proved.

[BoonDock]

Great post Boondock!
Thanks Nordwind. Appreciate it. Subject near to my heart. (as you would have noticed ... rofl )


1) How many soldiers is your unit allowed to have on its establishment? I know none of the reserve units are anywhere near full battalion/regiment strength

Not about how many we are allowed to have, but how many we can get. We are constrained at the moment by not being allowed to recruit until all the ex -commando members are assimilated. Busy with "Conventional Conversion" training this year...

2) How often do you guys get to train?
We have regular training weekends. Frequency varies. Our ops-tempo has picked up drastically the last year though so less opportunity for the whole Company to train together. We do "non-formal" training with junior leaders at least once a week though.

JD

[BoonDock]

I don't see it as a rant, its a very valuable inside view into what is happening in our army right now, from someone who knows what they are talking about, which is refreshing these days, especially if a lot of overseas people only have the media to rely on for their knowledge. The media unfortunately tend to see things from whatever view is newsworthy at the time, as current world events have just proved.

Thanks Moby. I think you are wrong though about the cause of the bad reporting. I think it is about bad reporters, not any hidden agenda. Two things, 1) they take things at face value and 2) they have NO (and I MEAN no) understanding of how the military works.

On top of that, a LOT of the current crop of reporters and editors were on the wrong side of the fence in the 80s when the Army was deployed in the townships, so a lot is viewed through those memories...

If you are referring to Israel, I am sure that by now you would have seen the Israeli PMs speech. I have received it at lest seven times from different sources. He expounds some truths about the underlying mindset there which the media prefers to ignore, so you are right there. Adding to this is the world domination of the English Media by the USA. I am afraid that they tend to play sound-bites and images with no real attempt to get into the issues. Understandable I suppose as their target audience changes the channel if there is any attempt to do so..

JD

[moby]

Sorry, I should have said world news, I don't watch local news, I listen to it on the radio. My comments were based on media coverage of the Middle East, from the different stations. For weeks we got 24 hour coverage of conflict, the appeals for a ceasefire by the reporters to stop the carnage, then we had the airport saga, suddenly the conflict was just a quick 10 minutes per hour while we watched the same areas being filmed ad nauseum, I could proberly find my way round all the international airports now, (apart from fact that the media was explaining just how to make a l.exp. just in case anyone had not gone to the 'how to' websites they gave out) then it was back to the ceasefire and they counted down the seconds till it began, and then counted up the seconds of how long it was lasting, making sure that everyone was made aware of how fragile it was, then like a flock of vultures they had "breaking news" 10 rockets were fired from Lebanon.........would the ceasefire hold, and so on.
Now I am ranting, sorry.

[moby]

Yeah Boon, I am quite aware that bathing or showering normally takes place in the buff, however I was thinking more along the lines of how those poor okes must feel having their family jewels displayed for the world to see and not even getting royalties out of it.:)

[Deftoner]

This is one of the things that makes the new army so wierd.. having women around that now you can't use the piss-lily's ?

JD

Ha ha, Made me think of that old Schuster movie. When they convince that guy that there are POW's underground...

[moby]

LOL Deftoner
Nein Nein in that high shrieky voice

[Masai]

oh Shucks, here comes Untag.

cant remeber what UNTAG stood for.

United Nations ... ... ... ???

[Deftoner]

UNITED NATIONS TRANSITION ASSISTANCE GROUP
UNTAG (April 1989 March 1990)

UNTAG was established to assist the Special Representative of the Secretary-General to ensure the early independence of Namibia through free and fair elections under the supervision and control of the United Nations, and to carry out a number of other duties. Independent Namibia joined the United Nations in April 1990




Was a kid when I saw it, but remember it being really funny. he he

[moby]

So, did all the S/Africans suddenly retire into their bunkers or what???

[moby]

And once again I seemed to have killed a thread, I think I have missed a calling in life. :(

[Nordwind]

So, did all the S/Africans suddenly retire into their bunkers or what???

Nope, they just need some sleep from time to time ;) I for one, am just waiting for Boondock to unload some more great pics if he's got any more.

[Hellfish]

From Today's Pics:

http://cache.*****images.com/xc/71689565.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=08A8BA3C818346D050757AC7464EA882

http://cache.*****images.com/xc/71689740.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=08A8BA3C818346D07C234A225CD5C042

[Deftoner]

So, did all the S/Africans suddenly retire into their bunkers or what???

Nope, im here. Im here pretty much every weekday (while theres nothing to do at work anyways).

[BoonDock]

From Today's Pics:


http://cache.*****images.com/xc/71689740.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=08A8BA3C818346D07C234A225CD5C042

Pretty weird to see a Ratel-90 in white. Any idea where these were taken anybody?

JD

[E-Sqdn]

Here is a photo of Olifant Mk1 armed with 88mm cannon during 1985, later when the gunners were more skilled they upgraded to the 105 mm cannon.

[E-Sqdn]

Heres another MK 1, this time with the 105 mm cannon.

[Hellfish]

Pretty weird to see a Ratel-90 in white. Any idea where these were taken anybody?

JD

The Congo, IIRC.

Nice pics, E-Sqdn! I assume you were at the School of Armour?

[E-Sqdn]

The Congo, IIRC.

Nice pics, E-Sqdn! I assume you were at the School of Armour?

Yep, 1985 and 1986.

[BoonDock]

The Congo, IIRC.
I guess so. I didn't think that SA had 90's there.. so I was wondering if those ARE SA 90's? Anyone know?


Nice pics, E-Sqdn! I assume you were at the School of Armour?
Ditto !

[Ironsight06]

I guess so. I didn't think that SA had 90's there.. so I was wondering if those ARE SA 90's? Anyone know?
Noone else but the SANDF has Ratel-90's so I am pretty sure those are SANDF Ratels.

[Vorster]

Guys we sold a out house full of surplus stuff in the past 5 years. Ratels among them. If memory serves me correctly about a 1000 were sold. The ratel 90 is a specialist vehicle issued to tank destroyer units and with the advent of the ZT 3 became somewhat obsolete. There was a short clip on the local news the other day of the ous inside the Ratel. They weren't wearing standard SANDF cammo.

However that is a rather new mk 3. To my knowledge we only deployed LIC type motorized units up north and they are equiped with Casspirs and Mambas not Ratels. The Ratel 90s are also crew by members of the armor corps and to my knowledge they haven't been deployed on peacekeeping.

[BoonDock]

However that is a rather new mk 3. To my knowledge we only deployed LIC type motorized units up north and they are equiped with Casspirs and Mambas not Ratels. The Ratel 90s are also crew by members of the armor corps and to my knowledge they haven't been deployed on peacekeeping.
Hi Vorster,
Yes.. this is why I was confused. I know that we have none on deployment and it was a bit of a shock to see '90s in UN livery.

BTW, there is NO WAY that Ratels are crewed by Armour Corps.. They are crewed by us Mech Etters.. I.E. boknaais. You must be thinking of Rooikatte..

JD

[BoonDock]

Noone else but the SANDF has Ratel-90's.
That is just not true. They have been sold all over the place.

JD

[Hellfish]

Don't Sri Lanka and Morrocco have Ratels?

[Ironsight06]

Don't Sri Lanka and Morrocco have Ratels?
Only Morroco and Jordan have Ratels and as far as I know they only have Ratel-20's but I could be wrong.

[E-Sqdn]

Here is a photo from the website "SA Transport" of a Ratel 90 on a train in Durban in "similar" not identical, cammo to the Jordanian Ratel 20's.

A photo as well of Jordanian Ratel 20 (from www.********************)for (http://www.********************)for) comparison, like I said similar cammo.

I have never seen this cammo in SADF/SANDF before so I assume it’s for someone else.
Maybe an export Ratel 90?

I know I’ve asked before but does anyone have any photos of the "Angolan Army Green" painted Ratel’s that 32 Battalion had at 61 Mech at the beginning of 1989?

Or of the squadron of T54/55's at 61 Mech in 1985/1986?
I believe they were later given to UNITA during 1986.

[Hellfish]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12029&d=1156843376

I'm pretty sure thats an old 32 Bn Ratel 90. IIRC they were the only ones to ever camo their Ratel 90s, and this one looks like the right mix of brown and 'buffalo' green.

[Ivan1]

Special Forces Brigade:

http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album01/acu.sized.jpg (http://www.recce.co.za/modules.php?full=1&set_albumName=album01&id=acu&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php)http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album01/act.sized.jpg (http://www.recce.co.za/modules.php?full=1&set_albumName=album01&id=act&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php)

[Hellfish]

Where was that 2nd pic taken? Cape Town?

[Deftoner]

Where was that 2nd pic taken? Cape Town?

No, i don't think so. I've lived here my whole life and never seen that scenery. Could just be the angle though.... Possibly Durban or PE? (judging by the foilage...)

Some good pics at the originating site.

http://www.recce.co.za/
(http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/www.recce.co.za)

[Hellfish]

Yeah, the foliage looks tropical but I don't know of any fortresses besides the Castle.

[Clint_Durban]

Does anyone have any photos of 8 SA Mechanised Infantry Unit?

I served in 8 SAI during my National Service and have just started a website relating to the unit!

http://groups.msn.com/8SAInfantryUnit/_whatsnew.msnw

We weren't allowed to take photos or bring cameras onto the base etc, so photos are far and few between!

[Vorster]

I don't agree on the 32 Bat cammo, that dark grey and green is off a bit. And to my knowledge all Ratel zt3s and 90s during hooper/packer and modular were crewed by ous from the armored corps.

[Vorster]

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9444/mk2fq1.jpg

Hannes Nortmann's Ratel ZT3 from the rumble on the lomba fame. Still with original kill markings and cammo. This cammo patern can be seen on most 32 bat vehicles deployed into angola in 87/88.

[Hellfish]

I swear I have pics in a book (at home, of course) of Ratels with the standard brown underlay and green splotching. Was the above ZT3 with 61 Mech or with 32 Bn?

[Tolstoy]

Where was that 2nd pic taken? Cape Town?

It's Shongweni dam, Kwazulu Natal, part of the "spirit of adventure" resort. I remember absailing down that wall on one of the school trips there. All the paramedics and SANDF abseiling folks go there for basic instruction, IIRC.

[Echo7]

Shongweni Dam.

"Boknaai" Haven't heard that word in ages!!! Brings back some good memories though.

[Vorster]

Only 4 systems deployed in 87 and they were attached to 32 battalion. The missles hadn't even been field tested or the troops trained on them. It was on the job training and testing.

Old Hannes's back hand brought the gunner up to speed very fast after two initial misses the third hit. The guy got excited and the forth missed as well. That was when Hannes gave him a PK and he calmed down for a second and third hit.

The 4 launchers in the team deployed were shuffled around alot and were attached to many units, but they stayed under Hannes's command.

[playtym]

2006-08-30
23:27:37

After 30 years, the family of Portuguese soldier Robbie Ribeiro, who was "too black" for SA's highest bravery award, have been presented with his medals.

Pretoria - Thirty years ago, Robbie Ribeiro, a Portuguese member of 32 Battalion, was too black to be decorated with the highest recognition for bravery, the Honoris Crux (HC).

The Pro Patria and Southern Africa medals were awarded to the staff sergeant, but were never presented to him.
His daughter, Carla, had the bittersweet privilege on Wednesday of receiving at least the two medals at the military cemetery in Thaba Tshwane.
She was only 18 months old when her father died in combat 30 years ago in the border war.

Three Portuguese honoured
"It's frustrating and, yes, there was, and still is, a lot of pain about many things.
"I can't say very good things about the defence force, but it's all buried now," she said.
Ribeiro and two more Portuguese comrades from 32 Battalion, staff sergeants Danny Roxo and Silva Soeiro, were honoured on Wednesday with a wreath-laying and the handing over of the medals and their insignia to their families.
The three soldiers had been buried next to each another in the military cemetery, but until two years ago there was not even a tombstone to mark their graves.
Roxo was the first foreign soldier to receive the HC. They all died on the same day in the same battle on August 23 1976 in Angola.
All three helped the commander, Colonel Jan Breytenbach, to found 32 Battalion.
Breytenbach said on Wednesday that even today he still was upset about the discrimination against the Portuguese soldiers.

Fair skin 'more acceptable'
"Robbie was involved in one contact with a South African in extremely difficult circumstances. The other guy got his HC.
"For a second contact, in which he led a platoon under heavy fire, I recommended him for the HC.
"I heard afterwards that he didn't get it because he was black." Breytenbach said Roxo was presumably more acceptable with his blue eyes and fair skin.

[soutikghosh]

Hi Guys!
I am new to this thread.Here are some of my South African Artillery collections.Hope you all like it.If anyone having more of South African artillery pics please share it as I am a great fan of these guns and to me they are the best.By the way check out my first thread on mp.net as INDIAN ARMED FORCES -i bet you will like it.THANKYOU

[soutikghosh]

CAN ANY ONE FROM SOUTH AFRICA COVER THE FORTHCOMING AFRICA AEROSPACE AND DEFENCE-2006 IN CAPETOWN FOR THIS SITE

[soutikghosh]

To Me These Are The Most Sexiest Ships In The Whole Of African Continent:)

[Deftoner]

CAN ANY ONE FROM SOUTH AFRICA COVER THE FORTHCOMING AFRICA AEROSPACE AND DEFENCE-2006 IN CAPETOWN FOR THIS SITE

I'll try if I have the time. Do you know where its happening?

[playtym]

I'll try if I have the time. Do you know where its happening?

Check out the link.

http://www.aadexpo.co.za/

[Deftoner]

Ysterplaat AFB! Thats up the road from my parents house. I'll definately try make it!

Can't wait for the Airshow there later this year (unless it's been stopped...)

[E-Sqdn]

Howzit Guys, Since its been so quiet for the last few days I figured I should put a couple of pic's on!
Here is a green/sand cammo'ed T62 at School of Armour in 1986.
We recieved it to compare with the Olifant MK1A, we got it from Israel at the end of 1985, I believe its one of the many that they captured from Syria.
The next photo is the same T62 along with a T54 that was confiscated (along with 7 others) from a ship in Durban harbour in the early eighties.
I believe we kept this one and possibly another one, the rest were given to Rhodesia and later fitted out with SADF type comms.

We did a limited amount of training on T54/55 (familiarisation, strip & assemble weapons, start up , drive, shut down procedures etc) during normal training on the Olifant but actually had a small T54 squadron from School of Armour up at 61 Mech for awhile in 1985!

[udu_udt]

12720
have any info about South African naval commando?

[Clint_Durban]

Have a look at this one!

This guy has gone to the effort of locating the Google Earth locations of SA military bases and the the various operations carried out by the SADF in SWA and other! Also has Koevoet bases listed on the site!

http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showthreaded.php/Number/425893 (http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showthreaded.php/Number/425893)

Regards,

Clint

[soutikghosh]

HI GUYS
HERE ARE SOME OF THE FAMOUS SOUTH AFRICAN COMBAT HELICOPTER ROOIVALK FROM MY COLLECTION OF PICS. HOPE YOU ALL LIKE IT. IS IT TRUE THAT THIS HELICOPTER HAS BEEN SELECTED FOR THE ONGOING TURKISH COMBAT HELICOPTER REQUIREMENT.
CAN SOMEONE PLEASE PLEASE POST SOME GOOD PICS OF THE p-) FOLLOWING:

1. G-5 ARTILLERY
2. G-6 SELF PROPELLED ARTILLERY
3. G-7 FUTURE ARTILLERY...I will be looking forward for some reply regarding my requests from all the members related to this thread. THANKYOU:)

[playtym]

12720
have any info about South African naval commando?

It's a Special Forces Attack Divers Badge in Bronze.

I took this from the South African Special Forces League website.

http://www.recce.co.za/index.php?module=ContentExpress&func=display&ceid=10&bid=29&btitle=Special%20Forces&meid=24

The Special Forces Attack Divers Badge is the symbol of a qualified South African Special Forces Attack Diver.

The Special Forces Attack Divers Badge was / is awarded to qualified Operators of the South African Special Forces
who were / are members of 4 Reconnaissance Regiment / 4 Special Forces Regiment
the Seaborne Special Forces Regiment
who have applied to undergo, have been evaluated and accepted to undergo,
and have thereafter undergone and successfully completed all practical and academic aspects of the
Special Forces Attack Divers Training Course

The Special Forces Attack Divers Badge is comprised of a Great White shark,
superimposed over a Trident,
surrounded by a Rebreathing Aqualung Pipe

The Special Forces Attack Divers Badge is worn above the right hand side pocket on the uniform, above the name tag, and below the Special Forces Operators Badge.

The Special Forces Operators Badge is a proprietary Special Forces Badge.
It is worn solely, only and exclusively by qualified South African Special Forces Operators,
who are also qualified Attack Divers.

[Ironsight06]

The next photo is the same T62 along with a T54 that was confiscated (along with 7 others) from a ship in Durban harbour in the early eighties.
10 Libyan T-54's were confiscated. 8 were sent to Rhodesia and 2 were kept for evaluation.

[Hellfish]

10 Libyan T-54's were confiscated. 8 were sent to Rhodesia and 2 were kept for evaluation.

I have pictures of one of those T-54s at a South African museum.

[Ironsight06]

I have pictures of one of those T-54s at a South African museum.
Show the pictures maybe :roll:

[Hellfish]

Show the pictures maybe :roll:

Nobody ever asked to see them.

[Ironsight06]

3. G-7 FUTURE ARTILLERY...
Here you go:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/85/Denel_G7.jpg

Have more of them on my HD but I am at college now.

[Ironsight06]

Nobody ever asked to see them.
I am asking right now :roll:

[Hellfish]

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4683/polisht55l2bl5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4316/polisht55l1cn1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/8351/dsc02873ajf4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/1258/dsc02870aky3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/2461/dsc02871ahx6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/3238/dsc85largezf9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/6391/dsc0053zu2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7360/dsc02874asz0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)



http://www.armourarchive.co.uk/safrica.pdf

[Hellfish]

I am asking right now :roll:

Don't get snooty with me. :bash:

[Ironsight06]

Seems they repainted the tank. They came in desert camo with green splotches. This camo is nice though, note that the tank is refurbished by OMC :)

[E-Sqdn]

Seems they repainted the tank. They came in desert camo with green splotches. This camo is nice though, note that the tank is refurbished by OMC :)

Another photo of the "T", a bit fuzzy but the cammo is as Ironsight06 says, a light sand colour with medium olive green colour patches.
You can see the green colour a bit better on the origional photo that I posted where it's parked next to the T62.

[boerbull]

Anybody knows what this vehicle was used for? I have been told that it is called an "Okapi".
12763

[Ironsight06]

Anybody knows what this vehicle was used for? I have been told that it is called an "Okapi".
12763
It's definately the Okapi. Here's some more info about it:
Okapi 6x6 mine protected vehicle (MPV)

The Okapi is a 6x6 mine protected vehicle (MPV) which can be configured for use in various roles: command and control vehicle, fire control post or specialised anti-mine equipment carrier. Its high mobility enables it to climb steep gradients and sizeable steps. Six large wheels take the vehicle effortlessly over rugged terrain, sand and mud.
The Okapi is powered by a 6 cylinder 4 stroke turbo charged engine and it has an approximate range of 400 km off road and 900 km on road. Occupants are protected against 7,62mm x 51mm NATO standard ball ammunition rounds fired at a distance of 30 m or further. These specifications can be upgraded. Occupants will also survive a detonation of 2 TM57 anti-tank landmines under the vehicle.

[boerbull]

Thanks, that was the only photo that I could find. Was this vehicle used by the Sadf?

[playtym]

I've got some pics of that T-55 to add.

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6383/t5502of08vw1.th.jpg (http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=t5502of08vw1.jpg)

http://img419.imageshack.us/img419/3896/t5503of08vu1.th.jpg (http://img419.imageshack.us/my.php?image=t5503of08vu1.jpg)

http://img312.imageshack.us/img312/3011/t5504of08qu1.th.jpg (http://img312.imageshack.us/my.php?image=t5504of08qu1.jpg)

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/4125/t5505of08ef1.th.jpg (http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=t5505of08ef1.jpg)

[Vorster]

Jip it is in use as an ambulance, as well as a fire comand post for the new ARTES system comming on line soon. I have some nice video footage of it in tests.

As for G5 and G6. I am off to 4 Art Regiment next week again will take the camera along for some nice wide angle shots. The stuff I have is mostly detailed walkarounds. I will also tote the camera along to the yearly artillery open day in three weeks time. Going to be a spectacular show they are firing off 5 full ripples from the MRLs. 3 at night and 2 during the day.

[maple.leaf]

Sorry for the thread hi-jack, but does anybody know where I can buy one of these for my collection?

http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/South_Africa/SF_Brigade/S_dagger.jpg

[Hellfish]

Sorry for the thread hi-jack, but does anybody know where I can buy one of these for my collection?

http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/South_Africa/SF_Brigade/S_dagger.jpg

I don't think you can - not a real one, anyways. IIRC they're all numbered as well. Besides, you'd probably have a bunch of Recces wanting to skin you alive if you did. They seem to be pretty hardcore about not letting outsiders have their stuff like this.

[Ironsight06]

I don't think you can - not a real one, anyways. IIRC they're all numbered as well. Besides, you'd probably have a bunch of Recces wanting to skin you alive if you did. They seem to be pretty hardcore about not letting outsiders have their stuff like this.
Reminds me of this (http://www.recce.co.za/index.php?module=ContentExpress&func=display&ceid=19&bid=31&btitle=Bogus%20Operators&meid=86)

This one's my favorite:
Mr Dave de Wet
Location in South Africa unknown (for now) This individual saw fit to provide the Magazine 'FHM' with a series of columns, entitled:- 'Dave de Wet's Sex Challenge - Ex-reccie sharpshooter gives his top shagging tips'. Not only has Mr de Wet never been a Special Forces Operator, (Recce), he has picked a particularly vulgar and distasteful manner in which to publicly sully the name of our Special Forces, and the memory of our many Brother Operators who have paid the Supreme Sacrifice - not to mention the effect that such a demeaning series of articles has on the families and children of our fallen colleagues.
We very, very strongly suggest to Mr de Wet that he send through a written apology to us extremely rapidly, and that he just as rapidly makes arrangements for a corrective article to appear in the magazine.

[Vorster]

Jip they are numbered. I don't want to let the cat to much out of the bag but a buddy of mine and two of his friends has recently completed a book on Recce insignia and equipment. They have been waiting for ages to get permission to publish but they have something in the pipeline.

He collects Recce emblems and memorabilia. I will ask him if he can find you one. He is pretty tight with the Recces, but if I were you I wouldn't hope to much as the man said they are pretty hard to find and there are many fakes around.

[Eric61Mech]

Since there have been a number of South African posters in this thread I was wondering if any ex members of 61 Mech Bn.Gp. previously based at Amuthiya SWA/Namibia are members?

There are a number of the 1982 vets of operations Protea/Daisy who are trying to arrange a reunion for 2007.

I can be contacted either through the forum or at ericwo@btinternet.com

[soutikghosh]

Hi Ironsight06
Thanks For The Response. Hoping To See Your G-7 Collection As Soon As You Can Upload. Thankyou

[Eric61Mech]

I've always wondered why the 1SSB had that name. How come they weren't called something like the 1 SA Armour Regiment or in line with one of the other armoured regiment names ("Regiment Mooi Rivier", etc)?

Is 61 Mech Bn still around?


SSB was founded in the 30's in Bloemfontein as a quasi military unit for unemployed during the Depression - they worked on roads, dams etc - they were then amalgamated into the army and formed the core of the SA Armoured forces............but am a bit hazy on this as it was a very long time ago that I read up on it.

[Ironsight06]

Hi Ironsight06
Thanks For The Response. Hoping To See Your G-7 Collection As Soon As You Can Upload. Thankyou
These are the most interesting they were shot by SAbushwar who is also member of this site:

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/4360/pic00200ry7.jpg
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/8491/pic00201xj4.jpg
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/7828/pic00202ok9.jpg

Other pics come from a vague Russian site. Low quality black-white pics of some prototype :|

[Eric61Mech]

[quote=baboon6;1723066]I don't know. The only two pics I've ever seen of the Milan in SA service are of it being used by special forces in Angola in the late 80s. It's not mentioned in any of the books I've read about SADF weaponry. Mechanised units would use the Ratel ZT-3. There is also the 92mm rocket launcher, based on the French LRAC (hope I'm getting that right), while AFAIK Special Forces and Parabats still use the RPG-7.

Yep - 61Mech used Lrac, RPG7 and believe or not the 88mm or 89mm?? Bazooka.

[Eric61Mech]

Some photos from my Platoon Commander's course in 2003. Tell me if i should post more..

JD

DeBrug outside of Bloem?

[calimero2]

There is also the 92mm rocket launcher, based on the French LRAC (hope I'm getting that right),

I guess you refer to the FT-5. AFAIK it is not based on the 89mm LRAC.

http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/1271/ft5sa03gc2.th.jpg (http://img382.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ft5sa03gc2.jpg)

[flecha]

[quote=baboon6;1723066]I don't know. The only two pics I've ever seen of the Milan in SA service are of it being used by special forces in Angola in the late 80s. It's not mentioned in any of the books I've read about SADF weaponry. Mechanised units would use the Ratel ZT-3. There is also the 92mm rocket launcher, based on the French LRAC (hope I'm getting that right), while AFAIK Special Forces and Parabats still use the RPG-7.

Yep - 61Mech used Lrac, RPG7 and believe or not the 88mm or 89mm?? Bazooka.

The Recces used Apilas (Giat, France) rocket launchers during the battle of Cuito Cuanavale, (source the former chairman of the Special Forces League Stuart Sterzel when he gave his lecture regarding this battle at the war Museum in JHB)

There are numerous photos in the public domain showing members of 32 using Milans in Angola, however I would rather to be interested to see photos of Milans being used by Spec Forces in Angola, (unless these are actually 32 members and not Recces per se)

[cbreedon]

I don't think you can - not a real one, anyways. IIRC they're all numbered as well. Besides, you'd probably have a bunch of Recces wanting to skin you alive if you did. They seem to be pretty hardcore about not letting outsiders have their stuff like this.

I got one here a while back:

http://members.fortunecity.com/swatshop/info.htm#

[playtym]

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/626/bluff01ly4.jpg

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4455/bluff02ml9.jpg

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/2892/bluff03ud3.jpg

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9863/bluff04py6.jpg

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/7261/bluff05qc3.jpg

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3843/bluff06bq1.jpg

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4492/bluff07ob1.jpg

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/3338/bluff08hr4.jpg

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/7690/bluff09kn5.jpg

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/837/bluff10yz6.jpg

[Clint_Durban]

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4492/bluff07ob1.jpg







Is that the Recce base on the Bluff, Durban?

[Clint_Durban]

Have a look at this one!

This guy has gone to the effort of locating the Google Earth locations of SA military bases and the the various operations carried out by the SADF in South West and other!

http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showthreaded.php/Number/425893 (http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showthreaded.php/Number/425893)

Regards,

Clint

[playtym]

Is that the Recce base on the Bluff, Durban?

Yes it is.

Here are some more photos.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/194/bateleurlk2.jpg

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/677/buffelen3.jpg

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/5650/g5kj3.jpg

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/4923/g6og2.jpg

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/7052/mfeziza8.jpg

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/8259/olifantie4.jpg

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/6983/rooikator9.jpg

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/7421/withingswk0.jpg

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8941/ystervarkcn6.jpg

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/6462/zt3wl0.jpg

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1309/zumlacmz3.jpg

[baboon6]

[quote=Eric61Mech;1908894]

The Recces used Apilas (Giat, France) rocket launchers during the battle of Cuito Cuanavale, (source the former chairman of the Special Forces League Stuart Sterzel when he gave his lecture regarding this battle at the war Museum in JHB)

There are numerous photos in the public domain showing members of 32 using Milans in Angola, however I would rather to be interested to see photos of Milans being used by Spec Forces in Angola, (unless these are actually 32 members and not Recces per se)

Now that I think about it at least one of the pictures was in Jan Breytenbach's book on 32. BTW I was at that lecture too.

[Ironsight06]

Nice pics playtym, when were they taken?

[playtym]

Nice pics playtym, when were they taken?

Defence Force Day Parade, Durban, 1994.

[playtym]

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5273/oryx01co0.jpg

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/538/oryx02mx6.jpg

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/881/oryx03zr6.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/2298/oryx04yr6.jpg

[Ironsight06]

Defence Force Day Parade, Durban, 1994.
Didn't knew they were alraedy using Soldier 2000 cammo back then :)

[playtym]

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/8343/mfezi01jo4.jpg

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/8602/mfezi02lb8.jpg

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/324/mamba01ng2.jpg

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/8458/mamba02ea1.jpg

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6956/biochemkd9.jpg

[playtym]

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/1720/casspir01ox7.jpg

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/968/casspir02lu4.jpg

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/9817/casspir03lw2.jpg

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/7334/casspir04ce8.jpg

[playtym]

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3678/mambacrash01gt9.jpg

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/5068/mambacrash02jp3.jpg

You can see the axle and prop-shaft lying in front of the vehicle. It was ripped off as it rolled down the slope.

The following are links to images of some of the occupants of this vehicle. Be warned - they are very graphic!!!


http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/4146/mambacrash03eg1.jpg

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7439/mambacrash04ne5.jpg

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/8287/mambacrash05ud4.jpg

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/4080/mambacrash06om1.jpg

RIP brothers!

[playtym]

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/3095/rooikat01xj1.jpg

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/519/rooikat02hs5.jpg

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2997/ratelid3.jpg

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/533/elandtr3.jpg

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/4783/50calpi2.jpg

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/8741/patrol01jx0.jpg

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/1700/patrol02hv2.jpg

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/2043/patrol03fm4.jpg

[Ironsight06]

What happened to the Mamba? Did it hit a mine?

[playtym]

What happened to the Mamba? Did it hit a mine?

No. Ran off the road at the top of the hill and rolled down the slope. You can see the area it tore up on the way down.

[Ironsight06]

No. Ran off the road at the top of the hill and rolled down the slope. You can see the area it tore up on the way down.
Looks like they didn't wore any seatbelts :|

[playtym]

Looks like they didn't wore any seatbelts :|

Wearing seat belts is only really something you do for about two weeks after witnessing something like this, or a vehicle that hit a mine. Then everyone gets complacent and goes back to standing out the hatches etc. again.

[playtym]

I go these pics from the cousin of a friend. I don't know the story behind them, but they're still using R1's and Hippo's, although there are some Buffels too. I guess it must be around 1976 - 1978 in the operational area - might be wrong though (it wouldn't be the first time!).

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/712/picture001vf1.jpg

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6206/picture002bq8.jpg

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/1976/picture003jm7.jpg

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/6302/picture004il1.jpg

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/6082/picture005zf8.jpg

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/3/picture006qo8.jpg

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9272/picture007ri3.jpg

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/8804/picture008ss8.jpg

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/3918/picture009qi9.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9440/picture010cb1.jpg

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/9413/picture011kw3.jpg

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3760/picture012ao4.jpg

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/5766/picture013bz0.jpg

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7997/picture014ph4.jpg

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6011/picture015zk7.jpg

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/5558/picture016rd3.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4207/picture017cs4.jpg

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/9403/picture018tj9.jpg

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/1654/picture019so0.jpg

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/1503/picture020nn0.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9540/picture021jw1.jpg

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/2966/picture022qs6.jpg

[ElHombre]

Thanks for the pics. You've got a good collection there.

[BoonDock]

It's Shongweni dam, Kwazulu Natal, part of the "spirit of adventure" resort. I remember absailing down that wall on one of the school trips there. All the paramedics and SANDF abseiling folks go there for basic instruction, IIRC.
LOL .. that dam is about 5 klicks from where I live..

[playtym]

Here are a couple more photo's from the operational area.

Mine Sweeping
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/6765/picture01mg0.jpg

WARNING! The following are links to some photo's of a dead terrorist. Don't click on the link if you're gonna get put off by seeing that.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/213/picture05aa6.jpg

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7722/picture02js8.jpg

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/9677/picture03jq8.jpg

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/1926/picture04ev3.jpg

[John Lynch]

Yes it is.

Here are some more photos.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/194/bateleurlk2.jpg

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/677/buffelen3.jpg

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/5650/g5kj3.jpg

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/4923/g6og2.jpg

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/7052/mfeziza8.jpg

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/8259/olifantie4.jpg

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/6983/rooikator9.jpg

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/7421/withingswk0.jpg

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8941/ystervarkcn6.jpg

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/6462/zt3wl0.jpg

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1309/zumlacmz3.jpg
Can you tell me what these vehicles are

[BoonDock]

Here are a couple more photo's from the operational area.

Mine Sweeping
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/6765/picture01mg0.jpg


Cool photo.We did LOTS of escorting of the sweeper teams. What vehicles are those? Looks from the front as if it could be the "School Buses" (the mine protected ones).. Is it?

[playtym]

Can you tell me what these vehicles are

1. Bateleur
2. Buffel
3. G5
4. G6
5. Mfezi
6. Olifant
7. Rooikat
8. Mack Recovery Vehicle (Withings)
9. Ystervark
10. ZT-3 Ratel
11. Zumlac

[John Lynch]

1. Bateleur
2. Buffel
3. G5
4. G6
5. Mfezi
6. Olifant
7. Rooikat
8. Mack Recovery Vehicle (Withings)
9. Ystervark
10. ZT-3 Ratel
11. Zumlac

What type of rockets does the Bateleur have

[playtym]

Cool photo.We did LOTS of escorting of the sweeper teams. What vehicles are those? Looks from the front as if it could be the "School Buses" (the mine protected ones).. Is it?

That isn't my photo, but I'd say the first two vehicles are Hippos - I'm not sure about the ones behind though. That pic came from the same guy that this one came from.
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/1976/picture003jm7.jpg

You mean 'school buses' like this one...
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2012/09su5.jpg

[playtym]

What type of rockets does the Bateleur have

40 127mm