South African National Defence Force

[Ironsight06]

Thanks for reply. What was the reason to drop the nuclear force? I understand that border war was over, but...

Was the cost of ownership the reason, or just political "western" lobby?
I think it was because the ANC would come to power. Government was afraid that they would fall into bad hands. ANC had a terrorist background.

[Varlat Opiat]

Hmm. Maybe it was better solution to drop nukes (get rid of them of course:), not to use them).

[kosmos]

I think it was because the ANC would come to power. Government was afraid that they would fall into bad hands. ANC had a terrorist background.

Well the story has yet to be told but it was something like that. There is not much writen on it, perhaps it need more time to distill. The SA Nuke Weapon project was incupabated in the 1970's in an atmosphere of Rooi & Swart Gevaar (that is fear of Communism and 'the blacks taking over') therefore with the end of the cold war and the movement to democracy here, the reason for their existence was no longer there. There was no more need for a deterrent. It was alll over. Or was there some more sinister racist motives? Like that the white government did not want to hand over nukes to a black government? Perhaps a combination of reasons, whatever I as a South African am glad they were gotten rid of, the thing that really gets me is the waste of resources. How many houses could have been built with that money? How far would it have gone in education and other socially constructive development?

[wilhelm]

Do any of the guys here have any pictures of the FT-5 anti-tank system? I was trained on it and am having difficulty finding images of it on the web. I have heard it bandied around that is was very similar to the French LRAC, but even I can remember distinctive differences.

[Ironsight06]

Do any of the guys here have any pictures of the FT-5 anti-tank system? I was trained on it and am having difficulty finding images of it on the web. I have heard it bandied around that is was very similar to the French LRAC, but even I can remember distinctive differences.
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/3247/pic28md6.jpg

I have a manual of it, however I need to salvage it from my old PC.

[mrf2]

I have a question for those of you in SA. I have seen several pictures of R4/R5 rifles that have been painted/finished in brown along with bunch that were black finished still. Why are some brown and some black? Do some units paint their rifles brown, while others keep them black? Is it done during rebuilding?

Thanks!
mrf2

[Ironsight06]

Didn't it had something to do with the type of metal used?

[Clint_Durban]

I have a question for those of you in SA. I have seen several pictures of R4/R5 rifles that have been painted/finished in brown along with bunch that were black finished still. Why are some brown and some black? Do some units paint their rifles brown, while others keep them black? Is it done during rebuilding?

Thanks!
mrf2

The brown finish was generaly used by the SADF and the black finish was used by the SA Police. I guess they chose the brown finish as it went with the SADF brown uniforms!

[wilhelm]

Thanks for the FT5 pic Iron ... that manual would be a beaut if you can get it.

I reckon the reason is that a black R-4 might just be a little too noticeable in the Southern African terrain. The R-4's we got appeared to have the brown as a factory finish.

[Clint_Durban]

http://www.youtube.com/v/iIx6sTNexN0

[sierratango]

^
Brilliant...baie dankie, bring more...

[Clint_Durban]

I just found this one about the SANDF with great shots of equipment upgrades! Excellent footage!

http://www.youtube.com/v/fHmVex61iSE

[Ironsight06]

Great video Clint!

[wilhelm]

Wow...very nice!

[Deftoner]

Wow....those cheetah's are still damn fine looking.

[exT70]

Gentleman

Announcement last week in the media. Looks like the Hoefyster buy is going throught.

http://www.buanews.gov.za/view.php?ID=07051810151004&coll=buanew07

So it actually looks like we finally might be getting new toys!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now just to wait and see how they/we manage to make a mess of this deal as well!!!!

As picked up by Afrikaans media
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l305/exT70/General/DSCF7286.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l305/exT70/General/DSCF7286.jpg

[Ironsight06]

Ext70, can you scan/photograph a higher resolution version of the article? I would like to read what they have to say.

[exT70]

Ext70, can you scan/photograph a higher resolution version of the article? I would like to read what they have to say.

Pretty much the same as the english .gov reference posted.
But will do.

[exT70]

Ext70, can you scan/photograph a higher resolution version of the article? I would like to read what they have to say.

I'm a techno-idiot. Higher resolution goes PDF, so can't post that through photobucket.
Send me a PM with your e-mail address and I will mail it to you. Even easier. Was front page of SAKE24 of Die Burger dated 18 May 2007. Volksblad, Beeld and Burger uses same business section, so should be able to get it there as well. Did however not see in on News24 website. Strange!

[Pfc. Walnut]

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s198/ThePunisher82/3_battlejacket.jpg
Is this a SADF soldier?
What cap is that, I thouth SADF has boonie hats?

[Clint_Durban]

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s198/ThePunisher82/3_battlejacket.jpg
Is this a SADF soldier?
What cap is that, I thouth SADF has boonie hats?

I don't know if the guy is a SADF soldier as he is not wearing regular uniform!

Some guys just used to fold the back and sides of the boonie hat into the boonie hat to make it look like a cap!

32 Battalion and some other units did have peak caps as issue!

http://groups.msn.com/SADFphotos/32bnthebuffalobattalion.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=332

[Mirlo]

Could be a Recce?? Taking the chance what happened with the Recces??

Best regards

Mirlo

[exT70]

Could be a Recce?? Taking the chance what happened with the Recces??

Best regards

Mirlo

Could be anyone. Recce. 32. Or any other Bn for that matter. May also be Rhodesian or any person anywhere in the bush. Picture does not give enough detail. Not even AR in background places the pic. Units like 32 and Recces were however more ****e to wear non-regulation battlejacket like the one the guy in the pic is wearing and some of the "battlejacket" predecessors/prototypes looked similar to what is shown in the pic, but it could be anything, anywhere. (32's stuff was however mostly in a commo pattern). Most deployed and actively "fighting" units used "better" non-regulation systems prior to the "battlejacket" replacing the old canvas style webbing. Soldiers do that everywhere, and probably have been doing it since people started fighting. Recces still wear what they like.

The Recce unit/s have changed name so often I have lost track. Much smaller today but still quite active in Africa. Not in position to make any further comments in this regard.

[Maktab]

The Recces are now the South African Special Forces Brigade, consisting of 4 Special Forces Regiment in Langebaan and 5 Special Forces Regiment in Phalaborwa. 4 SFR is primarily a maritime unit, while 5 SFR is mostly an overland unit, though skills cross-training is encouraged and all members have advanced parachute training.

Rather interestingly, the SF Brigade is not part of the Army, but is actually an independent unit under the Joint Operations Division. This means they have their own budget of R200 million and get to buy whatever kit they want without the Army's bureaucrats interfering. In the last few years, 5 SFR bought 25 Hornet rapid-response vehicles (called the Wasp by Land Systems OMC) while 4 SFR has procured an unknown number of high-speed boats. The budget is set to increase to R250 million by 2010.

The Brigade is, as exT70 pointed out, much smaller than it was at the height of the Border War, though that is to be expected. More worryingly though the Brigade has not been immune to the golden lure of private sector work, with many operators quitting to become private security contractors. This is not unique to SA, the SAS recently had to up salaries by 50% to try stem losses to the private sector. The unit still is fairly active, mostly supporting our peacekeeping forces in their African missions. Details of deployments usually aren't made public though.

[sierratango]

KROONSTAD
Base shooting: Colonel still critical

Wed, 30 May 2007

The commanding officer who was shot by another soldier at Kroonstad military base on Tuesday is still in a critical condition, the SA National Defence Force (SANDF) said.

Brigadier General Kwena Mangope said on Wednesday that Colonel JS Grobbelaar's condition had "not worsened and not improved."

"He is still critical and in the intensive care unit."

Mangope said Grobbelaar was in his early 50s and had a wife and children.

Grobbelaar is the Officer Commanding Group 24.

The suspect, a lance-corporal, allegedly went to Grobbelaar's office and shot him at around 7.30am on Tuesday.

Planned shooting

"It looks like it was a premeditated type of action," said Mangope.

He said the motive was not known and the matter was still being investigated.

Grobbelaar was flown by helicopter to 1 Military hospital in Pretoria.

The lance-corporal was arrested by the SA Police Service and detained at the Kroonstad police station.

He was expected to appear in the Kroonstad Magistrate's Court on Wednesday.

Mangope said a military council held an urgent meeting to discuss the shooting on Tuesday, and decided that the suspect should be dishonourably discharged with immediate effect.

The man is believed to have used a pistol, but it was not known if this was military issue or privately-owned.

The criminal investigation into the matter continues.

Sapa


The Colonel has subsequently passes away in hospital...RIP

I am at a loss for words this is an indication of how far things has slipped.

[Pislelie]

It would be nice if something like a big SADF resource center could be set up. Something interactive like the MSN Group...


Maybe this is what you are looking for. saffer.pbwiki.com
The password is callup

[Maktab]

Interesting site. Btw, it's Callup, not callup. Case sensitive.

[Hellfish]

Looks like a great site. Might be worth adding a photo/video section to the site that's easily accessible. Right now, it's a little difficult to navigate around.

[exT70]

..............

Finally got someone to convert PDF scanned-in old style pics to jpg or whatever. Thanks Gorka
Should have asked someone to do the conversion ages ago.

These are concept mock-ups to explore the layout and set-up of what then would have been a locally designed and built SA version of an IFV to replace the Ratel series of vehicles. These are accordingly not working (“real”) vehicles, but are setups of various proposals for command, squad and other variants. The turrets shown (30 and 35mm versions) are however the real thing and probably very close to what would be fitted to the Patria. The hulls were at the time of the photographs being taken (not by me) standing at the back of a vehicle park.

There is/was a long list of (to me upsetting and disturbing) reasons why a “local” version was not accepted. The pictures showing a distant dust track, is of the Patria being tested in the background. Excellent marketing. At the time of the appraisal of the Hoefyster project, an unsolicited vehicle was sent to SA for testing. So while you show concept vehicle, a running veh is being driven around (apparently did 10,000km of testing). Would however still prefer a front engined Rooikat based IFV, but that is another story. The Patria shown at AAD06 was a typical example of planners/buyers/so-called experts once again not having a f-ing clue what is going on in the real world and on the ground. Or having been away from it for way too long.

[exT70]

[quote=exT70;2534999]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a50/glmm/HoefysterPDP4_Page_1.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a50/glmm/HoefysterPDF5_Page_4.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a50/glmm/HoefysterPDF5_Page_3.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a50/glmm/HoefysterPDF5_Page_2.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a50/glmm/HoefysterPDF5_Page_1.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a50/glmm/HoefysterPDF2_Page_4.jpg

[exT70]

.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a50/glmm/HoefysterPDF2_Page_3.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a50/glmm/HoefysterPDF2_Page_2.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a50/glmm/HoefysterPDF2_Page_1.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a50/glmm/Hoefyster3_Page_5.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a50/glmm/Hoefyster3_Page_4.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a50/glmm/Hoefyster3_Page_3.jpg

[exT70]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a50/glmm/Hoefyster3_Page_2.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a50/glmm/Hoefyster3_Page_1.jpg

[exT70]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a50/glmm/HoerysterPDF11_Page_4.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a50/glmm/HoerysterPDF11_Page_3.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a50/glmm/HoerysterPDF11_Page_2.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a50/glmm/HoerysterPDF11_Page_1.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a50/glmm/HoefysterPDP4_Page_3.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a50/glmm/HoefysterPDP4_Page_2.jpg

[Pislelie]

We will be setting up camp at the annual WAR and PEACE Show in Kent, England.18-22 July. We took part in the show for the first time in 2005 and it was great. Our setup is of the mid eighties during the Border war.
We try to use authentic kit from Nutria down to A52 radios. And this year even a PW Tent. (no more 2WW bivvies:)) For more info go to
sa-army.com still a work in progress though.

This year we will have a projecter or a little television there to show things like "Recce" the "Boetie" movies and "The Last Domino".

We are looking for more though. Old training videos or news flashes. Even Radio recordings. If there is anybody out there who can help please get in contact.
We do not use any of our material or kit for financial benefit.
This however means that we make no money from what we do and rely on the good will of like minded people.

I hope we will see a few supporters this year. Hre is some pic from 2005

[exT70]

Do any of the guys here have any pictures of the FT-5 anti-tank system? I was trained on it and am having difficulty finding images of it on the web. I have heard it bandied around that is was very similar to the French LRAC, but even I can remember distinctive differences.

Better late than never.
Finally got around to it. Shows laucher with missle attached.
FT5 on shoulder
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l305/exT70/General/100_0635.jpg

FT5 on side
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l305/exT70/General/100_0636.jpg

FT5 on side
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l305/exT70/General/100_0638.jpg
Shows day sight with metal aux sight folded down below it.
Handles easier than it looks.

[exT70]

[quote=exT70;2558329]Better late than never.

While I'm at it, so more Pl weapons.
40mm MGL
MGL from side (butt folded)
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l305/exT70/General/100_0613.jpg

MGL from side (butt extended)
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l305/exT70/General/100_0624.jpg

[exT70]

[quote=exT70;2558329]Better late than never.

While I'm at it, so more Pl weapons.


60mm Mortar conventional
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l305/exT70/General/100_0628.jpg

[exT70]

[quote=exT70;2558344]
60mm Patmor
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l305/exT70/General/100_0639.jpg

[rsasoldier]

Nice photos. I just got a new camera and may be posting some good photos soon as well; just waiting for events that are worth photographing.

[wilhelm]

Thanks exT70. The foregrip/trigger assembly on the FT-5 look different to the way I remember it all those years back. Has it been modified? I know we were some of the first to use it.

[exT70]

Thanks exT70. The foregrip/trigger assembly on the FT-5 look different to the way I remember it all those years back. Has it been modified? I know we were some of the first to use it.

Trigger assembly not been changed that I know of, but hell, back then I trained to put a main rd at the RPG gunner's feet, then spray him with co-ax and ack-ack 7.62, then drive other him and then drop a M26HE on him as an afterthough as I drove away. Might not have noticed a change! Still same strange back-hand thumb opperated.

Please also do not pay any attention to the IO posing with the weapon. He's not holding it correctly (so ignore his hands), so that might also make it look different. Happens when you allow the "snuffeltiffies" out of their "kas".

[exT70]

Nice photos. I just got a new camera and may be posting some good photos soon as well; just waiting for events that are worth photographing.

Are you back home??
Back in the SAI world for a while?

[rsasoldier]

Are you back home??
Back in the SAI world for a while?

Yes, I am back, but it looks like I am about to leave for the Comores for three months. May get a lot of photos of palm trees. It certainly is a damn bit better than my year in Darfur.

[Bohemoth]

Are there many white people left in the Armed Forces and Law Enforcement?
Dunno nothing about SA, just being curious.

[wilhelm]

Please also do not pay any attention to the IO posing with the weapon. He's not holding it correctly (so ignore his hands), so that might also make it look different. Happens when you allow the "snuffeltiffies" out of their "kas".


Hehe ... No kidding.:)

[exT70]

Are there many white people left in the Armed Forces and Law Enforcement?
Dunno nothing about SA, just being curious.

The number of so-called "whites" in the SA security forces have obviously decreased from the apartheid days, but yes, there are still a fair number left. Their numbers in especially the more senior and middle ranks are disproportionate to the ethnic make-up of society in general. There is however a rather serious skills shortage in our society in general, so barring even further degrading our overall ability to secure the country, co-called "whites" will continue to serve their country in this way. In the lower ranks of specially the SANDF, there is however very few whites signing up. This is due in part due to the perception that whites will not be promoted (as quickly or on equal merit as especially black NCO's/Off's)(due to measures to fix the above ethnic proportionality). For instance white Off's "carrying time"/time in rank in the middle and early senior ranks will be quite long. No longer strange to find Capt/Major types that have been in rank for 10 years+.

[playtym]

2007-6-18 16:02
Pretoria - A SA National Defence Force clerk accused of defrauding her employer of R1.1 million will go on trial in the Pretoria Specialised Commercial Crimes Court on June 28.

The case against Zelda Wolmarans and co-accused Shona Heydenrych was postponed after both appeared in court.
Wolmarans, 44, residing in Clubview, captured information of army reservists being called up for training on the department of defence's payroll.
She is accused of falsely recording that some part-time reserve force members were called up and subsequently claiming money for these fictitious attendances from the SANDF's salary system.
According to the charge sheet, she had the money paid into her own bank account and that of her children and stepchildren.
She was arrested in April 2006 and released on bail of R20 000.

Some accused started plea negotiations
Soon afterwards her children, Chrizelle and Pieter Jacobus Stephanus van Vuuren, and her three stepchildren, Dirk Jacobus, Maria Fransina and Christina Johanna, all Wolmarans, were arrested as the State alleged they acted with a common purpose with Wolmarans. They were granted bail of R5 000 each.
In September that year Anna Marie Leona Rudman, Louis Johannes Fourie and Shona Heydenrych were also arrested.
Earlier this year Wolmarans and Heydenrych, 54, of Valhalla, started plea negotiations with the State and charges were withdrawn against the other accused. However, because negotiations between the remaining two accused and the State fell through, they were supposed to go on trial on Monday.

http://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=559110

[Clint_Durban]

Can anyone help to identify the listed company flashes?

[playtym]

I didn't look back to see if they've been posted before, but I don't remember them, so hopefully they're not reposts.

http://www.youtube.com/v/FVWWtZyRELg

http://www.youtube.com/v/qgMkP3L1aXA

http://www.youtube.com/v/h9z_VfZ3W7M

http://www.youtube.com/v/Qb2StlnfN1Y

http://www.youtube.com/v/UqIGjiCaDks

http://www.youtube.com/v/tdPi4vdIL7M

[wilhelm]

Found this interesting photo on the IPMSSA site. It appears to be a 90mm gun of the same type used on the Ratel 90 and Eland 90. Is the carriage new or an adapted older carriage such as a 6 or 17 pounder? Anybody know anything about this project?

EDIT: Hangovers are bad for you!! I have enlarged the text in the last photo. It was basically a 90mm mounted on a 17pdr carriage. It was used in 90mm ammunition development and muzzle brake development.

[Ironsight06]

Found this interesting photo on the IPMSSA site. It appears to be a 90mm gun of the same type used on the Ratel 90 and Eland 90. Is the carriage new or an adapted older carriage such as a 6 or 17 pounder? Anybody know anything about this project?
Baasjan was just a testbed for a homemade 90mm gun similar to the French one. It was mounted on a 17 pounder carriage during it's testing phase, don't think they were ever fielded in this form.

[playtym]

2007-7-5 22:49
Pretoria - A woman soldier was so enraged about her salary deductions that she stormed down on a defence force salaries clerk and knocked out a front tooth.

Katrien Viviers, 42, says before she could utter a word the soldier, who was with Military Health Service, just stormed at her and let rip with a haymaker.
"I'm so upset, I'm still shivering," said Viviers, who's a senior clerk in the adjustments section.
"I was just doing my job, and I got assaulted for it. Besides which, the guards were so slow to respond that my colleagues had to pull the woman off me."
The incensed staff sergeant pitched up at the pay office in Pretoria city centre on Thursday morning with enquiries about deductions from her salary in terms of certain garnishee orders.
Garnishee orders, stipulated amounts that have to be deducted before salaries are paid out, are issued by courts on behalf of debtors.

'Threatened to shoot me'
Viviers said: "I wasn't even there when she started to argue with my colleagues.
"She was talking to one of my directors when I came down the passage.
"The next moment she stormed at me and struck me on the mouth with her fist.
"My colleagues tried to stop her, but she struggled to hit me again. She also screamed that she would shoot me," said an upset Viviers.
"She swore at me and would have flattened me if they didn't stop her, because she's much bigger than I am. When my director remonstrated with her, she shouted that she hit only whites."
The Military Police arrived shortly afterwards.http://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=580420

[ZULU9niner]

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s198/ThePunisher82/3_battlejacket.jpg
Is this a SADF soldier?
What cap is that, I thouth SADF has boonie hats?

Was the M83 vest made in OG aswell? If so where can you pick one up?

[Ironsight06]

Was the M83 vest made in OG aswell? If so where can you pick one up?
If it was, it was only limited production for Recce's and other SF units. Probably not more than a few dozen were produced, if not less.

[playtym]

Was the M83 vest made in OG aswell? If so where can you pick one up?


Only Nutria Brown AFAIK. If the vest in that picture is of SA origin I would guess it's a Niemoller - which I've only ever seen in OD.

[Clint_Durban]

I have started a South African Defence Force (National Service & Permanent Force) group on FaceBook! http://www.facebook.com (http://www.facebook.com/)
The link is at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2392758638 (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2392758638)

It is a great website to link up with old mates!

[sierratango]

These are just a few of the scans I have done so far...will post more when completed.

[playtym]

These are just a few of the scans I have done so far...will post more when completed.


Nice scans from a great book. Does the copyright section at the front of the book not say that the images may not be reproduced electronically though?

I know DW has had issues previously about posting scanned images of photographs as the infringe on copyright.



PS: Don't them down before I've had a chance to save them though. p-)

[sierratango]

Ok'll delete them...

[Ubar]

Does anyone know if the SADF ever used M16A1 variants? even just in recce or SF?

[baboon6]

Does anyone know if the SADF ever used M16A1 variants? even just in recce or SF?

Never seen or heard of it. I have seen though a picture of a special forces operator in the 1980s with an Italian Beretta AR-70 rifle. Don't where it came from or how many were acquired. Maybe someone else can help on this. The preferred weapon of the Recces in the 70s and 80s was the AK-47/AKM. They also used the normal SADF rifles ie. R1 (FN FAL) and R4/R5 (Galil).

[Ubar]

excellent, thanks for the quick reply.

Some cool pictures in this thread :)

[Ironsight06]

Does anyone know if the SADF ever used M16A1 variants? even just in recce or SF?
I got a picture of a South African M16A2. Got it from a friend who saw it at a display (Navy days?).

[exT70]

I got a picture of a South African M16A2. Got it from a friend who saw it at a display (Navy days?).

I'd love to see that pic. M16A2 is too new for Bushwar, so maybe something that got evaluated.
Have to concur with Baboon6. Never in local use that I know of. Used AK's and PKM etc to blend in, R1/R4/R5 the rest of the time. Only other weapon I have often and regularly seen them with are MP5's. They would however get to use whatever it is they feel they need. M16's would have been very easy to get hold of in the old days. Very close contact between SANDF and IDF and US was at times closely involved in Angola.

But M16 too obviously foreign for Southern Africa (and that is without being drawn into a comment whether or not it would be suitable for local conditions). Would ID carriers miles off as SF or like.
Some CIA or other US or foreign attachment with Unita might have been stupid enough to want to bring their own stuff, but I doubt it. Have seen and handled AR15 that came back from border though, but that was from early days and probably Merc or like one off.

Which actually brings up an interesting thought/conjecture. Should SAcan SF truely not want to look like SAcan SF, they would us M16 or the like. Who knows.

[Ironsight06]

I'd love to see that pic. M16A2 is too new for Bushwar, so maybe something that got evaluated.
Have to concur with Baboon6. Never in local use that I know of. Used AK's and PKM etc to blend in, R1/R4/R5 the rest of the time. Only other weapon I have often and regularly seen them with are MP5's. They would however get to use whatever it is they feel they need. M16's would have been very easy to get hold of in the old days. Very close contact between SANDF and IDF and US was at times closely involved in Angola.

But M16 too obviously foreign for Southern Africa (and that is without being drawn into a comment whether or not it would be suitable for local conditions). Would ID carriers miles off as SF or like.
Some CIA or other US or foreign attachment with Unita might have been stupid enough to want to bring their own stuff, but I doubt it. Have seen and handled AR15 that came back from border though, but that was from early days and probably Merc or like one off.

Which actually brings up an interesting thought/conjecture. Should SAcan SF truely not want to look like SAcan SF, they would us M16 or the like. Who knows.
I am looking for it but it might be on my old HD. The pic had an M16A2, camo'ed with brown and green splotches. I am sure it was in South African use.

Don't know how they got it, looked fairly new.

Check this SAPS Police vid, at 5 minutes there's also an M16 in use.
http://youtube.com/v/a5mv2vg0oZA

[ZULU9niner]

If it was, it was only limited production for Recce's and other SF units. Probably not more than a few dozen were produced, if not less.

Made an attempt at dying the M83 vest. Here are the results. Looks pretty similar

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2646446#post2646446

[Mirlo]

Hi, I have a request for the following:

Has someone pictures of other tanks than Olifant used by the SA Armoured Corps?? Whippets, Shermans, Comets??? I mean pictures with general good quality of these vehicle while serving in SA.

Best regards

Mirlo

[Ironsight06]

Hi, I have a request for the following:

Has someone pictures of other tanks than Olifant used by the SA Armoured Corps?? Whippets, Shermans, Comets??? I mean pictures with general good quality of these vehicle while serving in SA.

Best regards

Mirlo
Only have Sexton's which doesn't really count as a tank. Think I can digg up some of Comets as well...

[haze99]

Zulu9niner, that operator is wearing a US Olive Drab Patrol Cap. Maybe even an early M-1951 cap? (The M-1951 cap is what the US BDU cap was copied from.) And what Castro and his forces wear on parade!
As for M-16's in Sub-Saharn Africa, a photo from one of Al J. Venters books shows a US Merc in Rhodesia with an M-16A1. Plus ALICE magazine pouches! (though this would have been in 1976/1977 timeframe!)

[exT70]

SANDF
Africa is a hot, dry and flat place, is it not....
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l305/exT70/General/DSCF7392paint.jpg

[ZULU9niner]

Zulu9niner, that operator is wearing a US Olive Drab Patrol Cap. Maybe even an early M-1951 cap? (The M-1951 cap is what the US BDU cap was copied from.) And what Castro and his forces wear on parade!

Thats great information - HAD I been looking to know what hat he was wearing. THe only thing was, I commented on his load carrying gear. :roll:

[wilhelm]

Anybody know anything about an Eland version called the Mk9? I thought the Mk7 was the last version.

[exT70]

Anybody know anything about an Eland version called the Mk9? I thought the Mk7 was the last version.

Guesswork - might be a later slightly upgraded version sold with diesel engine the Noddy should have received many many years prior to going out of service.

[wilhelm]

I was under the impression the Mk7 already had the diesel engine.

[Loskop]

Love the camo. Where can a good fella like myself get some SA camouflage ?

Ithink the South African soldier 2000 is still officaly restricted and so it is only on sale to the general public in small quanties so as far as I am aware anyone caught selling it in South Africa would be for the high jump.But some may turn up on ebay just keep an eye open.The old brown nutral stuff that the S 2000 replaced is not restricted and has been with drawn from service and it will turn up on ebay from time to time as you can see by the pic of the slangvel I have.

[exT70]

I was under the impression the Mk7 already had the diesel engine.

OK, actually looked around as I don't know
According to that bastion of halftruths, Wikipedia, especially re things military.
" Eland Mk7 - Also known as the Eland 60
Eland Mk9 - Also known as the Eland 90 - Modified version of the AML H 90 armored car, keeping the Panhard chassis but having a new Hispano-Suiza designed turret with a 90 mm GIAT F1 gun"

Or according to Global Security
"Eland MK7
The Eland armoured car is combat proven in both the conventional and counter insurgency spheres of warfare. The Eland MK7 Diesel Turbo (DT) is derived from the Panhard model 61 AML and has been extensively modified (e.g. diesel conversion) by Reumech OMC for use in the very harsh African environment. A wide range of weapons and ammunition types enable commanders to exploit the vehicle's capabilities to the full in a variety of tactical tasks, be it armoured reconnaissance or in urban riot situations.
The Eland MK 7 DT is equipped with a four cylinder water cooled turbo charged diesel engine, a production commercial product requiring a minimum of logistic back up. The permanent 4x4 drive gives it exceptional mobility. It can carry either a 90 mm quick firing low pressure gun, or a 60 mm breech loading mortar as main weapons. Night vision equipment provides effective night time operations, and it is provided with an excellent telecommunications system. "

Jacques Littlefield on the other hand has a "Eland Mk9 90mm gun".

So take a guess??

As far as I know SADF never had diesel powered Noddies (as least while I was still in SAAC).

On an beside. Received one as a gate guard last week, but were not allowed to post it in open Civvy view. Creates too aggresive an immage for the Army. Most Noddys still around are now being sent back to complete their service as targets.

[exT70]

Ithink the South African soldier 2000 is still officaly restricted and so it is only on sale to the general public in small quanties so as far as I am aware anyone caught selling it in South Africa would be for the high jump.But some may turn up on ebay just keep an eye open.The old brown nutral stuff that the S 2000 replaced is not restricted and has been with drawn from service and it will turn up on ebay from time to time as you can see by the pic of the slangvel I have.

SANDF Cammos are protected by statute in terms of which it is illegal to own, sell, trade or wear them, other that as personal isseu SANDF isseu. Collecting same would accordingly constitute and criminal offence, subject to a fine or jail-time, or both. South African jails are a barrel of fun. (Despite what any collector, soldier, seller or owner thereof may tell you - and that goes for the jail and illegality of the transaction)

And that was my caveat to all law-abiding citizens.
Now tell that to collectors and soldiers who swop!

[wilhelm]

OK, actually looked around as I don't know
According to that bastion of halftruths, Wikipedia, especially re things military.
" Eland Mk7 - Also known as the Eland 60
Eland Mk9 - Also known as the Eland 90 - Modified version of the AML H 90 armored car, keeping the Panhard chassis but having a new Hispano-Suiza designed turret with a 90 mm GIAT F1 gun"

Or according to Global Security
"Eland MK7
The Eland armoured car is combat proven in both the conventional and counter insurgency spheres of warfare. The Eland MK7 Diesel Turbo (DT) is derived from the Panhard model 61 AML and has been extensively modified (e.g. diesel conversion) by Reumech OMC for use in the very harsh African environment. A wide range of weapons and ammunition types enable commanders to exploit the vehicle's capabilities to the full in a variety of tactical tasks, be it armoured reconnaissance or in urban riot situations.
The Eland MK 7 DT is equipped with a four cylinder water cooled turbo charged diesel engine, a production commercial product requiring a minimum of logistic back up. The permanent 4x4 drive gives it exceptional mobility. It can carry either a 90 mm quick firing low pressure gun, or a 60 mm breech loading mortar as main weapons. Night vision equipment provides effective night time operations, and it is provided with an excellent telecommunications system. "

Jacques Littlefield on the other hand has a "Eland Mk9 90mm gun".

So take a guess??

As far as I know SADF never had diesel powered Noddies (as least while I was still in SAAC).

On an beside. Received one as a gate guard last week, but were not allowed to post it in open Civvy view. Creates too aggresive an immage for the Army. Most Noddys still around are now being sent back to complete their service as targets.

Thanks ext70
That's why I asked, as I am aware of what wiki and global security says. I was under the impression that the Mk7 was a diesel powered model. I'd never heard of the Mk9 before. I'm not sure any diesel models were inducted into the SADF, as Rooikat was in hand. Anybody know?

[splinter cell]

Were'nt these blokes SF? The only Special services battalion I know of is 1SSB in Bloemfontein and they are armour.


no there was panzer school who had 2 to a room stake and a tv in there rooms
as i was 1ssb d battalion ..go red cat hehe

panzer school was tanks and stuff
:)

[Loskop]

Hi rsasoldier do you have any pics of the parabats

[Loskop]

Us Brits do it aswell makes sense as you usualy get jumped at dusk and dawn

[splinter cell]

Us Brits do it aswell makes sense as you usualy get jumped at dusk and dawn


is 3am not the best time hehe...ye im looking for pics my self

id like pics of 1ssb
black beret with 2 silver Protears on it with a 3 color beaded bar
The shoulder badge is orange blue and white
Was 17 at time now 35 hehe so un sure all markings but I need it if any 1 has it

[exT70]

no there was panzer school who had 2 to a room stake and a tv in there rooms
as i was 1ssb d battalion ..go red cat hehe

panzer school was tanks and stuff
:)

School of Armour was leadergroup and tank training only. Noddy (Eland)and Rooikat leadergroup would accordingly in the past be trained there as well, together with all driving instructor training for the SANDF, Armour Formation R&D, tank transport, echelon and other specialised training. Untill 1990 accomodation at the School was a lot worse than at 1SSB or 2SSB (although traditionally C Sq had smaller rooms in the very old nurses home). New accomodation, offices and lecture facilities were however buildt and use started '89/'90. By that stage some accomodation were in what we called "Sun City" (ie fancy hotel). You slept in open cubicles seperated by cupboards, 4 to a cubicle. It was better that the standard 32 + 32 bungalow. This was however only Delta and Bravo Sqdns. The rest stayed in very old prefabs. If you thought food at the School was good, it means you did not eat there. Things may have changed, but I know the one Freestate Command prize that the school never won was for food.

[splinter cell]

well i visited School of Armour 1 day on cource from 1ssb
and the talk was on on how good they had it there
in 1ssb you were lucky to eat and if you did you stabbed the slimy crap they called fish and held your nose when u ate any thing else so id think we were eating school of armours trash.

maybe you saw my pic in the first print of training with yip man before they changed the photo for some 1 else’s photo

hens nearly been killed in lizzerd farm and that roomer some 1 died there hehe no just aa knife run down my left outer arm ,,id just like 1ssb uniform and badges so i can make a cover for a splinter cell like book ..my story of been in D battalion in the back bungalow next to the shooting range bed 9 front line if any buds are out there ….how’s it!

[exT70]

well i visited School of Armour 1 day on cource from 1ssb
and the talk was on on how good they had it there
in 1ssb you were lucky to eat and if you did you stabbed the slimy crap they called fish and held your nose when u ate any thing else so id think we were eating school of armours trash.

maybe you saw my pic in the first print of training with yip man before they changed the photo for some 1 else’s photo

hens nearly been killed in lizzerd farm and that roomer some 1 died there hehe no just aa knife run down my left outer arm ,,id just like 1ssb uniform and badges so i can make a cover for a splinter cell like book ..my story of been in D battalion in the back bungalow next to the shooting range bed 9 front line if any buds are out there ….how’s it!

Seems food about the same. Remember only one week of good food in my entire time there, and that was only for 30 of us before the Command fitness test. Food prepared by staff in field was a lot better though (chefs got an oppie every time you got bad food).

Food served as an excellent motivator. Would have done anything to get into Off/NCO Mess across the road and eat from a "white plate" and "proper food".
Your whole memory of "starving" seems a bit strange though. Food was unappetising, but designed to provide what one phisically needed. It just tasted like crap (and looked worse). As soon as one abandoned your prejudices from home and ate all that you could instead of not being picky, food seemed to work. Remember guys complaining that they were hungry etc and then finding that they would for instance refuse to eat "blue eggs" or fish or the like. Good way of getting out of the home comfort zone.
On a beside. That is one thing (food) that is a hell of a lot better in todays SANDF.

[ShaunBC]

I normally lurk and get entertained by most of the people on MP - thought I would get a post in today. I was in B Sqdn at 2 SSB in the early 80's and was part of the team that road tested the Eland 90 Mk7. The Mk7 was only the 90mm version, not the 60mm version, had petrol engines, and the major upgrade from the Mk6 was mainly external changes. The only change at the time to the Mk6 60mm, was a revised stowage bin on the back of the turret. The major Mk7 changes were different stowage on the turret rear, a different engine mount and revised rear engine compartment armour plating. The armour plating, when unbolted, would then swing down and away from the AC, and the engine, which had been mounted on rails/skids, and could be unbolted from the gearbox, slid out and switched out in less than an hour. There was a rumour that the techies did once get it done once in about 30 mins. There was no talk at the time of a change to diesel engines, and I have no recollection of there ever being a change to diesel while I still lived in SA till the early 90's. My brother also served in the same unit and Sqdn 8 years after I did and was the last intake to use the Eland 90. The next intake trained on the Rooikat.

[exT70]

I normally lurk and get entertained by most of the people on MP - thought I would get a post in today. I was in B Sqdn at 2 SSB in the early 80's and was part of the team that road tested the Eland 90 Mk7. The Mk7 was only the 90mm version, not the 60mm version, had petrol engines, and the major upgrade from the Mk6 was mainly external changes. The only change at the time to the Mk6 60mm, was a revised stowage bin on the back of the turret. The major Mk7 changes were different stowage on the turret rear, a different engine mount and revised rear engine compartment armour plating. The armour plating, when unbolted, would then swing down and away from the AC, and the engine, which had been mounted on rails/skids, and could be unbolted from the gearbox, slid out and switched out in less than an hour. There was a rumour that the techies did once get it done once in about 30 mins. There was no talk at the time of a change to diesel engines, and I have no recollection of there ever being a change to diesel while I still lived in SA till the early 90's. My brother also served in the same unit and Sqdn 8 years after I did and was the last intake to use the Eland 90. The next intake trained on the Rooikat.

Thanks
Also started my military life in 2SSB. At the time a tough place.
Old 2SSB closed down and Zeerust now a SAI camp.

[wilhelm]

I normally lurk and get entertained by most of the people on MP - thought I would get a post in today. I was in B Sqdn at 2 SSB in the early 80's and was part of the team that road tested the Eland 90 Mk7. The Mk7 was only the 90mm version, not the 60mm version, had petrol engines, and the major upgrade from the Mk6 was mainly external changes. The only change at the time to the Mk6 60mm, was a revised stowage bin on the back of the turret. The major Mk7 changes were different stowage on the turret rear, a different engine mount and revised rear engine compartment armour plating. The armour plating, when unbolted, would then swing down and away from the AC, and the engine, which had been mounted on rails/skids, and could be unbolted from the gearbox, slid out and switched out in less than an hour. There was a rumour that the techies did once get it done once in about 30 mins. There was no talk at the time of a change to diesel engines, and I have no recollection of there ever being a change to diesel while I still lived in SA till the early 90's. My brother also served in the same unit and Sqdn 8 years after I did and was the last intake to use the Eland 90. The next intake trained on the Rooikat.

Thanks Shaun ... interesting info. Welcome aboard.:)

Edit: My goodness ... a whole year after you joined 'till your first post. You are a careful one..

[sterlingsman]

Anyone got any good pic's of "C Sqn Rhodesian SAS" and any NEW pic's of SADF Webbing?.p-)

[Loskop]

Only Nutria Brown AFAIK. If the vest in that picture is of SA origin I would guess it's a Niemoller - which I've only ever seen in OD.

I think the Niemollers were made in DPM aswell

[splinter cell]

Splinter cell gates of tomorrow /Still M.I.A: Craig George

This is a story about the real splinter cell (http://asiangirlsarecute.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!8AD47423DFC2B4B4!207.entry)

For he had seen the second space ship ..not the 1 in north Korea but the 1 in Africa
Its also about the rescue of tom clanse from a deranged director as well as were
The yipman/chan entity is…
Not to forget how splinter cell was personally trained by yipman when the Korean/ Taiwan ships were in Durban harbor and the theory of what the injections were when they were trained
As to exhibit hand to hand combat to sell to s.a.d.f and s.a.p.f
and how splinter cell been sent to 1SSB D battalion of 64th regiment
tempy Bloemfontein for his military training was no mear quincadence ,slave traid in new Zealand in witness protection
and last but not least why the Angolan war had been lost


Chapter #1

Once in side un armed the gates abruptly slam’s his wits sharpen as he here’s the rustling of the bushes as some thing approached very swift.

His eyes activating he picked up a patrol advancing.
Quickening his pace he headed deeper into the forest
Screaming sparatic gun fire in sewed.; just beyond this incredible vision

circling round the back he saw body’s all over the place the floor drench with the glow of freshly spilt blood …
Casing scattered randomly over the floor reflect a flicker of light
Quickly rolling the cell had managed to grab a rifle and open fire on incoming targets as his eyes shun ever so bright in the dark light while the goops of blood flew every were getting to his feet he looks down

The floor now drenched in rivers of blood body’s and body parts he has a sic kingly feeling in the pit of his stomach

Another incredible sensation of a heightened awareness came over splinter as he could not only feel but smell some thing approaching ….his eyes changing color as they dimmed slightly as by now he had already starts to retreat away from this location at haste

Running for a few miles he glances back the feeling gone, he here’s terrible screams as what ever it was had reached what was still living in the mess of body’s.

Whipping a bit of sweat off that had gathered on his brow he found a place to sit
The air pitch black / silent and cool as it whispered past him, he began to relax for the first time since he went threw the gate.
Cell began to come to realization that in seeing the space ship he had achieved incredible
Vision that did not only give him eyes like a cat but seventh sight, high tend smell and awareness of his surrounding environment as well as he felt some what cleverer .. chuckling to him self over this thought he begins to
Remember seeing his sargents face when his vision un especially turned on like torches in his eyes then quickly dissipated…

splinter recalls he did not have a tourch when he had been questioned, they had been arguing over this when in the background radio chatter informed them that there position had been compromised and that enemy were moving on them from 3klicks south west,

Splinter frowns at this memory as he recalls been told to fire his warning shot
This was simple if the other guards were not ****en lunatics ”very green” ready to shoot even a moth.
Firing the shot he is told to go to the guard house…
As he headed on the left he was a bit hesitant of josh who was on the right
Almost at the guard house sparatic gun fire is heard and flashes of lite flickered lapping every viable hole in the wooden structure.
Splinter knelt behind a box with his cigarette in hand and a rifle in his other
Not willing to go any feather with no bullets just then 1 of the guards
Came out of the guard house hurriedly with his rifle in his hands

A shot rings out this is the time the to cells first see each other as cells , reaching the point almost simultaneously …from behind the guard house a platoon opens fire and shoots the wooden shack to smithereens
Splinter almost craped his pants as it was excessive leaving nothing but a rune
Radio chatter comes across smoke filed air stop firing stop firing.
Splinter sweating profusely as he had whipped bits of wood of his shoulders realized there was 1 more platoon witch had reach the fence line
And opened fire on there objective as they clamed ..throwing this thought from his mind he got up into the cold air and headed off to were he had seen the space ship.
Walking a few clicks he came to a a hill ,reaching the top. casually glances down
His 7th sense starts to make him aware of some income targets coming from 2 different sides the 1 coming in from the north west was moving faster than the one moving in from the south

Kneeling behind some foliage as he cheeks his rifle and cocks it ,the splinter cell waits silently to se what will emerge.

His eyes glow as he scans the horizon ,glancing round he picks up some movement
The eyes dim just before the silhouette of 1 man crosses his vision. Clasping the stock tightly in his hand he aims, a few moments later he sees a multitude of silhouettes as the rest of a patrol follow there point.

Waiting patiently splinter began to drift off in thought to when he was a young kid,he starts to remember

As a young boy cell had spent many of his days visiting a very old lady by the name of ant kit who use to give him biscuits and tea as they walked threw the rows of flowers in tin cans and any thing that could hold a plant nested on tin grates supported by any thing that could make a descant support

One day before school like usual he went to visits ant kit but on this occasion no 1 came to the door. rushing home he alerted his father who was a kind but tuff man and cell was sure Fred would sort this out. His father had ordered him to stay behind as he went to go see what was on the go. On returning his father had a strange look on his face .
Trying to avoid eye contact …as he sat by the phone to make a call. cell over here’s the phone call as he was a master of sneaking round and he here’s that ant kit and here garden boy had been murdered, this would be the last of this matter and his father forbid him to go over there again. cell never listened as ye just the way he was a free spirit.

Sneaking threw the naybers yard and then cutting threw Tim Barrets yard he dived over the fence and went to look around for him self ,the word very dumb or fearless would describe this little boy as he snooped round aunt kits property, walking to the left and down the bank he had come to were the garden boy had lived. it was empty except for a pool of blood on the floor. going to the next door he forced the door open ,the floor was riddled with scorpion spiders ,slamming the door and just about to run away like a little girl
A voice came from inside of the room. reopening the door he saw a black man sitting on the floor with a tin in his hand ,,the spiders were no were to be seen. the old black man ushered Cell forward to sit in front of him and he began to shake the tin vigorously before throwing a hand full of bones sculls of lizards and rodents on the floor.
The black mans eyes opened very wide then he tells Cell to go get him some water out side from the tap, on returning the room was empty no sign of the zingoma

A cold chill feeling ran up and down Cell’s body as he just ran straight out the door
And over the hill threw some bushes ,now feeling a bit safer the feeling subsided
He felt the need to relive him self on some near by bushes.

All of a sudden a old chine’s man was standing beside him. the old Chinese man asks Cell did you know that you are pissing on graves ,Cell was surprised
and denied the allegation as the Chinese man moved the bushes a part to reveal to tome stones.

Cell was surprised as it was the first time he had ever seen an Asian in his life
As he spoke with the old man he began to question the old chine’s man about what he was doing there and what did he want. the chine’s man was just about to answer when a little girl with blond hair appeared behind them .turning to look at this girl then back at the chine’s man who had now vanished like the old black man previously Cell turns back to the little blond hair girl as she spoke “the old man is evil run away as he is scared of me and that Cells life was at grate risk. running up the foot path from which the girl had run down he hears the little girl scream ,with out thinking Cell runs to the blond hair girls aid but no one is any were to be seen .heading back home he reaches Tim Barrits fence only to see a bunch of blacks in marshal arts uniforms practicing wing chung .as he got along with the natives they told him to come and join them so Cell joined them in there practice for a few min, then the old chine’s man approached from the direction of Tim Barrets house Cell jumped over the fences and ran home. the next day he went there and no 1 was to be seen and that was the end of that .walk down threw the tomato field to Tim Barrets house to go play with his 2 daughters Bronwyn and Nattily . Reaching the front door ,Cell knocked Tim answered the door and welcomed him in but did not call him Cell but mark Tim’s wife called mark to come get a sand wage and a glass of milk as the Barrits were Quaker like and believed in natural foods. After Cell had got a sand wage and a glass of milk he went to the lounge ,Tim said mark I have a favor to ask you can you sign this story I have been righting ,so Cell went up to Tim’s desk and Tim asked Cell for a sample signature…Cell been right handed quickly signed Tom Clance
“a note”For you that don’t know Tim Barret was Gath Barber who was Tom Clance.

Tim loud interrupts and said no! no !left handed!. so Cell made a few attempts then Tim said ye that’s it ,curios to what Tim had just told Cell to do he question Tim on the actions. Tim told Cell to sit down and pointed to same pictures of dissected brain on chart hanging on the wall and started to talk about how the mind could be controlled …it went in 1 ear and out the other as Cell did have a short attention span. then they both moved to the lounge and Tim began to tell him that the book had to be signed by some else so that the story could never be changed …odd it seemed at the time but hy what did a 8 year old know about all this. Next Tim started to talk about been compressed and teeth been removed would releasing the presser of the brain and the back damage was only a slipped disk every thing that would happen would be fixable then he carried on to mention about a tv channel and star wars movie and at the end the 5 flashes of light would activate the eyes by facing a tall building called a sky tower and letting the eyes drift to the 2 side buildings
Cell chuckled to him self as he had a problem with his eyes and that was more natural for him to do any way with out trying…after this over the top conversation Cell felt a bit confused
And every 1 was silent as he finished his milk and sand wage…soon it was time
For Cell to go home so he jumped over the corner of the fence into his yard landing on the compost heap…a excellent soft landing before running across the back yard up the bank to the back door.


The next day after school Cell went down the river catching wild guppies and on his way home he cut threw Tim Barrets yard this time there were 5 boys standing by the garage and funny enough so was his father Fred talking intensely to Tim…approaching all were startled but soon a peace came over as Cell admired the deep sea diving gear on a pile out side of the garage. as you know by now Cell’s curiosity got the better of him
Asking about the equipment Tim and Fred placed the diving suit on Cell and Cell was told that a special liquid would be poured into the suit and that he would be ok but it would be a bit uncomfortable for a bit…as the liquid slowly pored in Cell felt a bit anchis as it felt very strange …as the liquid started to fill the suit a bit of panicked over came Cell then the drowning feeling began to sink in and extreme fit of panic rush threw Cell’s body as he was totally submerged in the liquid but wow Cell could breath
It was a trippy feeling and he over heard them talking about plugging 1 lung before every thing just went white.

Just then a bright light brings him back out of thought of the past ,these strange lights danced as they moved in from the north west at incredible speed. soon the lights were all over the patrol on the hill, cells eyes activated as he looked into there faces there eyes red and like snakes, cell new that they had been turned into cannibals. all the eyes now fixed on cells now brightly glowing eyes ,began to charge his position, cell placed the stock of the R1 in his left shoulder and clasp the grip as he took selected shots at the charging
Cannibals. Cell was feeling lucky as the R1 had a accuracy of 1km so his shots were nicely placed between the eyes, now there were only 5 left the gun clicked empty
This was a bad time as the 5 remaining zombies were on him

Sticking the front of the R1 threw the first ones head he quickly span and did a lift click
Wing chung stile as his right hand swung and snapped the neck panther stile, spin kicking left he snapped the third zombies head as its body spun off to the side ,turning round he elbowed the forth zombie braking his collar bone as he swung his left knee up snapped its neck ,catching the final zombies punch with his right hand he finger thrust under the armpit before swinging his right fingers into its throat , the zombie fell straight to the ground. rummaging threw there packs he obtains ammo and some food and even a nice jacket, getting up to leave one of the zombies started to move so sharply with his boot he stomped on its scull, it stopped moving.

Splinter new now he better move position so once again he set off in the direction he had seen the space ship. after a while he came to a clearing in the trees, the sun was rising
And he decided it would be logical to make camp here and get some sleep ,after setting some ****y traps around the perimeter. he made him self comfterbul ,opening a tin of food he began to eat heartedly as he was famished after the nights escapade
As he relaxed more he began to drift into thought once more to when he was still 8

[splinter cell]

Obviously it needs a over hall but hy at least u got to read some
It’s the truth hidden in a story …and for those on my base why I was always missing..p-)

[playtym]

2007-9-17 23:04
Pretoria - There has been a furore at a Western Cape Air Force base, where a Muslim soldier who asked to be excused from a parade because of the fast of Ramadan was allegedly told by the Air Force that she had to take part.

A letter of objection was sent to the Air Force by the South African National Defence Force Union (Sandfu) on Monday morning, after a chaplain allegedly told the Muslim woman soldier that if she was afraid of fainting on parade, she should perhaps stop fasting.
According to the union the soldier was withdrawn from the parade after the Chaplain Service intervened on Monday afternoon.
The soldier, who is stationed at the Overberg Air Force base in the Western Cape, was to have been included in group drilling exercises this week, to prepare for and take part in a parade at the Ysterplaat Air Force base in Cape Town.
She sought permission beforehand to be excused because she was afraid that during the period of fasting, she could faint on parade, become dehydrated, or that her health could be affected by strenuous physical activity.
As a Muslim she may not eat or drink between dawn and sunset during Ramadan. She would therefore not have been able to drink water, even if her group drilled for hours in the sun.
Advocate Pikkie Greeff of SANDFU said her request was turned down despite a social worker's recommendation that her request should be looked upon favourably.

The request was denied as there was apparently not enough proof that the parade would be detrimental to her health.
The letter of objection from SANDFU's legal department stated that forced participation in the parade not only discriminated against this soldier, but all Muslim soldiers.

It was not that the soldiers were refusing to do their work, but they wanted to be excused from the additional duty (of taking part in the parade).



Beeldhttp://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=679087

[theholeinthedonut]

OOH MY! Bad double post!!!

[theholeinthedonut]

They could have found a compromise! Like giving her a chair....so if she felt she was on the verge of fainting she could have sat down!

[exT70]

http://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=679087
Not in any way very knowledgable in or an expert of the Muslim faith, but if I remember correctly, there are exclusions during Ramadan wrt drinking water etc. Pregnant woman etc are excluded, as well as devoutees doing certain jobs and a number or other exclusions etc. Wonder if any of these would not be applicable here.
Does however sound like someone went overboard here. The Airforce, media, or whoever might be overreacting.
How do they handle Ramadan with the members on deployment? Sorry today we are not doing any patrols in the Sudan/DRC/Burundi/at sea, half our soldiers are fasting so we are staying in the base. You are accordingly welcome to murder, rape, intimidate, commit genocide etc for the duration.
You are also welcome to illegally fish in our waters, due to the fact that the navy and the fishery service are harbour bound.
Please do not ask for Airforce support in mountain or sea rescue, we are grounded as well.
How do other armed forces of the world handle this type of situation??

[sp2c]

Not in any way very knowledgable in or an expert of the Muslim faith, but if I remember correctly, there are exclusions during Ramadan wrt drinking water etc. Pregnant woman etc are excluded, as well as devoutees doing certain jobs and a number or other exclusions etc. Wonder if any of these would not be applicable here.
Does however sound like someone went overboard here. The Airforce, media, or whoever might be overreacting.
How do they handle Ramadan with the members on deployment? Sorry today we are not doing any patrols in the Sudan/DRC/Burundi/at sea, half our soldiers are fasting so we are staying in the base. You are accordingly welcome to murder, rape, intimidate, commit genocide etc for the duration.
You are also welcome to illegally fish in our waters, due to the fact that the navy and the fishery service are harbour bound.
Please do not ask for Airforce support in mountain or sea rescue, we are grounded as well.
How do other armed forces of the world handle this type of situation??

afaik the muslim faith (not the one the extremists practice) says that duty and local law come first, islamic scripture comes second

so for instance if there is a country where you are by law obliged to eat non halal meat then it is no sin to eat it, if you are by law forbidden to eat halal meat then you have to become a vegetarian (not that there are such countries but it is an example).

so if you are in the airforce and you have to go out on a search and rescue mission because it's your job then you can do so without having to say a 1000 hail mary's (or the muslim equivalent ;))

this is all afaik because im no muslim of course
In this case I don't see the problem as she didn't simply stay in bed but asked beforehand if she could be excused which I think is pretty normal under any circumstance if someone asks you to do something you don't really want to do for whatever reason.
Interestingly now that the military said no shouldn't she technically be able to eat something before the parade?
ask the Imam if she can be excused from the ramadan for a day?

[exT70]

In this case I don't see the problem as she didn't simply stay in bed but asked beforehand if she could be excused which I think is pretty normal under any circumstance if someone asks you to do something you don't really want to do for whatever reason.
Interestingly now that the military said no shouldn't she technically be able to eat something before the parade?
ask the Imam if she can be excused from the ramadan for a day?

Or even better yet, suck it up, remember that you are a soldier and go on parade. It is spring here at present and the weather is still mild. Forget all this PC BS.

Oops, forgot, Spareforce, they don't sleep in the bush, they don't get dirty, they always sleep in a nice clean mess, always make sure they have good food, would never stoop to the level of a pongo to actually get dirty, and go without food and water for a day or what. Discomfort is just not part of airmanning.

Which reminds me of the Muslim kids I worked with on Sunday. Had a pre 0500 start, on their feet the whole day working scurrying about. A lot of it in the sun. Never complained, never slowed down. Male as well as female. No problems whatsoever.

Methinks this nonsense is a symptom of the ridiculous society we are now living in, and off course someone who is abusing the system (and if I could have, I would have as well, I hate bloody parades - mindless timewasting)

[sp2c]

hey I don't care

somebody asked so I tried to answer :)

[wilhelm]

Ext70, a while ago you posted photo's of the FT-5 system, and I stated that I remember the trigger/grip assembly being different when I trained on it.

I was going through the photos again and can categorically say that the FT-5 I trained on had a different handgrip/trigger configuration. Now .....

...does this mean I'm going senile? Or was there perhaps an earlier model?

[exT70]

Ext70, a while ago you posted photo's of the FT-5 system, and I stated that I remember the trigger/grip assembly being different when I trained on it.

I was going through the photos again and can categorically say that the FT-5 I trained on had a different handgrip/trigger configuration. Now .....

...does this mean I'm going senile? Or was there perhaps an earlier model?

I have more than one version of the FT5 pamphlet at home somewhere, and electronic versions of it as well. Will check and see if any changes along the way. Good chance between various media that will mention it or refer to an upgrade. However, as far as I know, no changes. Any chance you might have been using a pre-production model or something like that before?

[Ironsight06]

Armscor puts truck procurement back to square one
South Africa's defence acquisition agency, Armscor, has declined to select a preferred bidder for the South African Army's future tactical truck project, Project Vistula. Armscor has written to bidders saying that it intends to "initiate a new RfO [request for offers] process in due course". This follows repeated extensions of the offers at the request of Armscor over a period of some 18 months, raising doubts in industry circles regarding the process, with suspicions voiced that "perhaps the wrong truck won"
From Jane's Defence.

[exT70]

From Jane's Defence.
And if the SANDF would actually spend some money on maintaining what they have, as especially the ability and skill to maintain, property train its drivers and techincal services, it might not be necessary to spend huge amounts of money on new kit.

[DeltaD]

Regarding the head dress that this member is wearing The unit is either Cape Town Highlanders (most likely) or First City. The Transvaal Scottish wear a red hackle and not a metal badges with a square of tartan behind the badge. While both units are coastal units in SA, the CTH are somewhat more active for the moment. Nuf said.

[exT70]

Regarding the head dress that this member is wearing The unit is either Cape Town Highlanders (most likely) or First City. The Transvaal Scottish wear a red hackle and not a metal badges with a square of tartan behind the badge. While both units are coastal units in SA, the CTH are somewhat more active for the moment. Nuf said.
Person in the pic is JD. Used to post here. Then a member of the Cape Town Highlanders (CTH). CTH is a Mech Infantry unit and part the Army Conventional Reserve. One of the most active reserve force units in SA and a traditional kilted unit, with their roots in the erstwhile Gordon Highlanders, whose tartar is still worn.

[HammockWarrior]

Just saw something interesting on eTV news. They were showing some footage of that exercise in the Northern Cape where some soldiers were hit by anti-aircraft fire. While the talking heads were discussing, it they showed some footage taken during the exercise. One shot was of a soldier fast-roping out of a hovering Oryx. Thing is - he had what looked like a M4 carbine slung over his back. The stock was extended and had that distinctive chunky look of the American rifle and what looked like a foregrip. I may have been wrong, it was a short clip, but it was definetly not a R4 or R5. Hopefully it was a M416 - as if the army could afford them.

[exT70]

Person in the pic is JD. Used to post here. Then a member of the Cape Town Highlanders (CTH). CTH is a Mech Infantry unit and part the Army Conventional Reserve. One of the most active reserve force units in SA and a traditional kilted unit, with their roots in the erstwhile Gordon Highlanders, whose tartan is still worn.

Tartan, tartan, tartan, tartan, tartan, tartan, tartan, tartan, tartan ...

Won't allow me to edit?

[exT70]

Just saw something interesting on eTV news. They were showing some footage of that exercise in the Northern Cape where some soldiers were hit by anti-aircraft fire.

SA's 'worst military accident'
12/10/2007 17:01 - (SA)

Johannesburg - Nine soldiers were accidentally killed on Friday at a military base in Kimberley when a training exercise involving an anti-aircraft gun went tragically wrong, the army said.
Another 15 soldiers were injured in the accident at the Lohatla battle school and had been airlifted to hospital.
"I can confirm that nine of our people have died and another 15 were injured and taken to various hospitals around Bloemfontein," SANDF spokesperson Brigadier General Kwena Mangope said.
"We are still waiting for details but we do know it was an exercise, a yearly exercise that 27 soldiers participated in.
"We use a variety of weapons (in the training exercise). This particular one is a 35mm, MK5 anti-aircraft gun," he added.
Gun malfunction?
An investigation was launched into the accident which happened at about 09:00.
Lohatla, which is west of Kimberley, covers about 1 580 square kilometres.
Private radio station 702 reported witnesses as saying the aircraft gun malfunctioned during the training exercise.
However, Defence Ministry spokesperson Sam Mkhwanazi told AFP that it was not yet clear whether the accident had been due to human error or whether something had gone wrong with the weapons being tested.
"We can't know that at this stage - that's what the investigations will confirm," he said.
High-level inquiry
He said the high-level probe would be an internal inquiry, involving members of the SANDF, the police and government experts.
The area where the accident took place has been cordoned and officers from the military and civilian police were at the scene.
Welfare officers from the army's health service have already been dispatched to the base to offer counselling.
Both Defence Minister Mosiuoa Lekota (http://www.whoswhosa.co.za/Pages/profilefull.aspx?IndID=914) and Chief of Staff General Godfrey Ngwenya (http://www.whoswhosa.co.za/Pages/profilefull.aspx?IndID=5472) had "extended their sincerest sympathies and condolences to the families of the deceased", a statement from the Defence Ministry said.
Mkhwanazi said it was not known what condition the injured soldiers were in.
5 000 involved in exercise
The accident took place during Exercise Seboka, an annual joint military exercise involving around 5 000 servicemen and women from the army, airforce and navy.
It usually involves static displays, individual weapons firing demonstrations and an opportunity to fire some of the weapons, according to the ministry's website.
This is the worst military accident South Africa has experienced in years, with eight soldiers dying during training exercises at Lohatla 10 years ago, three in a parachute drop and five after a night mortar attack.
Defence Ministry officials said such accidents were very rare. "Without hesitation I can say it is very rare, I can't even think of one ... I can't remember when last an accident of this magnitude happened," said Mkwhanazi.

[exT70]

'Mechanical hitch' suspected
13/10/2007 10:57 - (SA)


Johannesburg - An out-of-control anti-aircraft gun which malfunctioned before a military training exercise was to blame for the death of nine South African soldiers, an army spokesperson said Saturday.
The nine were shot and killed and 15 others were injured on Friday during an annual military exercise at Lohatla Army Battle School in the Northern Cape province, in one of South Africa's worst military accidents in years.
South African National Defence Force spokesperson Brigadier-General Kwena Mangope said something mechanical appeared to have gone awry with the computerised 35mm MK5 anti-aircraft twin barreled gun.
"It was a mechanical hitch that caused the accident, we believe," he said adding that the gun had "opened fire uncontrollably, killing and injuring the soldiers."
The accident took place during a live-fire exercise as part of Exercise Seboka, an annual joint military exercise involving around 5 000 servicemen and women from the army, airforce and navy.
One of the deceased soldiers was a woman, as were five of those injured. Mangope said the names of the people killed being released to their families, and it would later be determine when they would be buried.

[wilhelm]

I have more than one version of the FT5 pamphlet at home somewhere, and electronic versions of it as well. Will check and see if any changes along the way. Good chance between various media that will mention it or refer to an upgrade. However, as far as I know, no changes. Any chance you might have been using a pre-production model or something like that before?

Sorry ext70 ... only noticed now. I'm not sure wether I used a preproduction FT-5 or not. What year were they first manufactured or generally issued?

Also, is there any truth to any connection with the French system who's name escapes me now and the FT-5? I did try to google for info but found nothing...

[Ironsight06]

Also, is there any truth to any connection with the French system who's name escapes me now and the FT-5? I did try to google for info but found nothing...
You mean the LRAC?

[mxw99]

One pic shows a balck soldier aiming with left eye and holding his
machine gun on his right shoulder - well - he will miss the target for sure..........:)

[wilhelm]

You mean the LRAC?

Thats it. Is there any connection? I've struggled to locate images of it.

[mxw99]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64954&highlight=South+Africa+National+Defence+Force


Try this - 3rd page down.

[wilhelm]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64954&highlight=South+Africa+National+Defence+Force


Try this - 3rd page down.

thanks for the heads up ... still can't see it though...??

[wilhelm]

Does anyone have any further photo's or info on those 2 Rooikat prototypes shown earlier in the thread? That would be the one with the 35mm single and ATGM's, as well as the air defence variant mounting twin 35mm guns?

[wilhelm]

I've had a think about the FT-5 I was trained on, and it definitely had the verticle handgrip ala the LRAC. This is the only image I could locate so far.. compared with the Ft-5 one of the good members on the forum posted earlier.

[playtym]

I've had a think about the FT-5 I was trained on, and it definitely had the verticle handgrip ala the LRAC. This is the only image I could locate so far.. compared with the Ft-5 one of the good members on the forum posted earlier.

When I was trained on it we were never told that it was the LRAC, just that it was an 89mm anti-tank rocket of French design (naughty sanctions busters! p-)), but it definitely wasn't the FT-5.

[wilhelm]

That's it playtym ... was sure it had a verticle handgrip. Naughty Sanctions busters indeed..p-)

So why did they do the changes we now see in the present Ft-5? I mean, I was told it was the FT-5, it obviously shares the same calibre, and from what I can see, the pre-packaged round looks similar and goes "in" the same way? In fact, they look very very similar apart from the grip. Wonder if the Ft-5 is a modified LRAC made here, and the first ones issued were basically the LRAC? The colour was very light on the one I used, ala the FT-5.

[playtym]

That's it playtym ... was sure it had a verticle handgrip. Naughty Sanctions busters indeed..p-)

So why did they do the changes we now see in the present Ft-5? I mean, I was told it was the FT-5, it obviously shares the same calibre, and from what I can see, the pre-packaged round looks similar and goes "in" the same way? In fact, they look very very similar apart from the grip. Wonder if the Ft-5 is a modified LRAC made here, and the first ones issued were basically the LRAC? The colour was very light on the one I used, ala the FT-5.

I'm not sure regarding the changes and the reasons. I thought I'd read that the FT-5 was 99mm, not 89mm. The larger calibre would give better armour penetration. All of our 89mm's were green. I'm guessing the colour change came with the local manufacture, and it was done in brown, like everything else.

I've got a Soldier or Fortune or Fighting Firearms article by Peter Kokolis somewhere. I'll see if I can dig it out. The FT-5 was introduced after my time, so that was were I got all of my info from.

Interestingly, I've never seem mention of the 89mm in any reference books covering SADF weaponry. They must have wanted to keep it under wraps, just like those German bridges that we trained with at Lohatla. p-)

[wilhelm]

Ext70, I found some pics on the net regarding the Th-400 if you are interested. Does anyone know anything about those two Rooikat variants I mentioned earlier on.... the single 35mm with ATGM and the twin 35mm AA version?

[exT70]

I'm not sure regarding the changes and the reasons. I thought I'd read that the FT-5 was 99mm, not 89mm. The larger calibre would give better armour penetration. All of our 89mm's were green. I'm guessing the colour change came with the local manufacture, and it was done in brown, like everything else.

I've got a Soldier or Fortune or Fighting Firearms article by Peter Kokolis somewhere. I'll see if I can dig it out. The FT-5 was introduced after my time, so that was were I got all of my info from.

Interestingly, I've never seem mention of the 89mm in any reference books covering SADF weaponry. They must have wanted to keep it under wraps, just like those German bridges that we trained with at Lohatla. p-)
I am not familiar with the French LRAC in the sense that I have handled one etc. Only did the Inf thing later in life. Only experience is with FT5 and RPG.
As correctly stated the FT5 is indeed a 99mm, which gives a good enough penetration for this type of weapon (have not bothered to see open sourced penetration figures, so for time being that is moot - have not looked either). Like it seems most SADF weapons at the time, the FT5 might have been based on something else (the LRAC). The arms industry in SA were pretty good at taking other people's toys and changing/improving/adapting them for local conditions. Actually having difficulty thinking of an "original" SA product.
FT5 now withdrawn from service due to cost of ammo. Old RPG back. Currently a replacement is being looked at.

[Ratel]

Here's another pic.
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/3563/89mmcp6.jpg

I got it here. (http://www.sa-soldier.com/data/index.htm) Check out his site, it's pretty good.

Listen buddy, do you know what copyright means? That is a photo of me and was taken from www.sa-soldier.com (http://www.sa-soldier.com) without permission. Please refrain from doing so in future! :fork:

[Ironsight06]

Listen buddy, do you know what copyright means? That is a photo of me and was taken from www.sa-soldier.com (http://www.sa-soldier.com) without permission. Please refrain from doing so in future! :fork:
He listed the source. Isn't that good enough? It is a discussion board after all.

[playtym]

Listen buddy, do you know what copyright means? That is a photo of me and was taken from www.sa-soldier.com (http://www.sa-soldier.com/) without permission. Please refrain from doing so in future! :fork:

Gees buddy, I'm sorry, I thought you might appreciate some free publicity for your site, but apparently not.

I'd really love to remove the image, but I can't edit my post anymore. I'll try and get a mod to remove it for me, but if I can't will I need to pay you royalties or something?

[Ratel]

He listed the source. Isn't that good enough?

No it's not mate! I generally don't mind if people use my images for legit discussions such as this one, but at least ask permission.

[Ratel]

Gees buddy, I'm sorry, I thought you might appreciate some free publicity for your site, but apparently not.

I'd really love to remove the image, but I can't edit my post anymore. I'll try and get a mod to remove it for me, but if I can't will I need to pay you royalties or something?

Don't worry about it. Just think twice before using other people's images without permission okay?

[GETSOME]

Hey guys theres a rumor(i know, dont believe in rumors) in the SANDF that the Soldier 2000 uniform is going to be replaced,anyone know anything about it?

[exT70]

Hey guys theres a rumor(i know, dont believe in rumors) in the SANDF that the Soldier 2000 uniform is going to be replaced,anyone know anything about it?
Not a rumour, but a project called African Warrior. Still some ways off. And it is not a replacement, but changes due to lessons learnt in last 10 years, especially during peacekeeping and different environments dealt with. Don't expect anything soon.

[GETSOME]

Not a rumour, but a project called African Warrior. Still some ways off. And it is not a replacement, but changes due to lessons learnt in last 10 years, especially during peacekeeping and different environments dealt with. Don't expect anything soon.
Thank you.

[wilhelm]

Hi guys,
check out the cool Ratel pics on the equipment page of this website (http://www.sa-soldier.com)

Is that your website?

edit: ahhh , not to worry. Found out via profile. thanks.

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

Hi there:), i am a junior officer currently serving in the SANDF. I have read a few of the questions posted and noticed that most of the members on this site seem to be members who served in the old SADF. I will answer any questions i can about the SANDF as it is today.

[GETSOME]

Hi there:), i am a junior officer currently serving in the SANDF. I have read a few of the questions posted and noticed that most of the members on this site seem to be members who served in the old SADF. I will answer any questions i can about the SANDF as it is today.
Welcome Roofie.:)

[GETSOME]

Hi there:), i am a junior officer currently serving in the SANDF. I have read a few of the questions posted and noticed that most of the members on this site seem to be members who served in the old SADF. I will answer any questions i can about the SANDF as it is today.
Hey dude ,get a new name ,you dont have to advertise for Telkom.

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

Ya, what you reccomend?

[playtym]

Ya, what you reccomend?

Where are you based?

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

9 SAI BN in Eesterivier, just outside Cape Town, It used to be known as 2 SACC be fore intergration in '94

[playtym]

Hmmm.... 9 SAI. You guys have the Lion Rampant holding the Arrows and Sword as an emblem, don't you? Do you have a specific name for that? Maybe your radio callsign, or nickname?

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

No we dont, but what i do know that the very same lion appears above the entrance of the castle of Good Hope. Must have some duch origin. I was hoping that they might change the emblem to somthing more suitable to our newly aquired sea landed status. What links to the military do you have?

[GETSOME]

No we dont, but what i do know that the very same lion appears above the entrance of the castle of Good Hope. Must have some duch origin. I was hoping that they might change the emblem to somthing more suitable to our newly aquired sea landed status. What links to the military do you have?
Sea landed status,what that,type marines?

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

No, not really marines. you may have heard thet the sa army is re-shaping it-self, namely a land operations grouping, works regiment and a special capabilities grouping consisting of 6 SAI (air landed) and 9 SAI (sea landed) which simply means we will be regaining our ability to take and hold ground from the sea, an ability we lost when the marines disbanded. 6 SAI on the other hand can be transported into a hot zone using the oryx helicopter.

[GETSOME]

No, not really marines. you may have heard thet the sa army is re-shaping it-self, namely a land operations grouping, works regiment and a special capabilities grouping consisting of 6 SAI (air landed) and 9 SAI (sea landed) which simply means we will be regaining our ability to take and hold ground from the sea, an ability we lost when the marines disbanded. 6 SAI on the other hand can be transported into a hot zone using the oryx helicopter.
Thanks for that.
Can you tell us more,specialised equipment,boats ,training and where do you guys do the training?

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

All this came about late this year so currently only the concept is in place and nothing much else, (winding down for the festive season)It seems as if the navy will supply the boats along with the coxains and also maintain the boats as they are already equiped for that. Training will most problably take place at sas simons town or sas saldanha, not sure, as for spes equipment no detail yet. hopfully with the new year there should be new developemets. There is currently no SA doctrine, except for the old marine doctrine which is out-dated.

[GETSOME]

All this came about late this year so currently only the concept is in place and nothing much else, (winding down for the festive season)It seems as if the navy will supply the boats along with the coxains and also maintain the boats as they are already equiped for that. Training will most problably take place at sas simons town or sas saldanha, not sure, as for spes equipment no detail yet. hopfully with the new year there should be new developemets. There is currently no SA doctrine, except for the old marine doctrine which is out-dated.
Will there be a new skill badge issued once you finish the course?

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

We received the new status late this year, so currently only the concept is in place and not much else (winding down for the festive season). Training will most probably be done at SAS Simons Town or SAS Saldanha. the navy will supply and maintain the boats( type unkown as of yet) as they are already equiped for that (budget)seems like they will also supply the coxains. Spes equip still unkown more detail to follow after the festive season.

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

like i said, not much detail yet. but if you consider how long we have been fighting for a recce platoon badge ,i doubt it.

[GETSOME]

like i said, not much detail yet. but if you consider how long we have been fighting for a recce platoon badge ,i doubt it.
Recce platoon,more info please:

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

All SA infantry Motorised Bn's have a support company and one of the platoons is the Recconasance platoon(call sign 90), their tasks is to provide shallow recconasance and battle field survielance/intel to the Officer Commanding. You have to do a 10 week course at infantry school to qaulify(basic photography, river crossing, basic survival, escape and evasion, battle field suveilance and some other stuff). We've been trying to get a prototype badge approved. the formation feels the qaulification does not merit a badge. their reason is that every other support platoon will want a badge. Some of the guys wear the badge anyway.

[GETSOME]

All SA infantry Motorised Bn's have a support company and one of the platoons is the Recconasance platoon(call sign 90), their tasks is to provide shallow recconasance and battle field survielance/intel to the Officer Commanding. You have to do a 10 week course at infantry school to qaulify(basic photography, river crossing, basic survival, escape and evasion, battle field suveilance and some other stuff). We've been trying to get a prototype badge approved. the formation feels the qaulification does not merit a badge. their reason is that every other support platoon will want a badge. Some of the guys wear the badge anyway.
Whats the badge look like?
When i was in we had the junior recces course,the badge was a bat with wings spread out.
have you ever seen it?http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6541/abf05abigyc1.jpg

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

My first time to see this one,thats way before my time but i will try and get my hands on our prototype, and post it 2morrow. Was the junior recces like recce platoon of today? What was their pupose and did they form part of Support company like it is today.

[GETSOME]

My first time to see this one,thats way before my time but i will try and get my hands on our prototype, and post it 2morrow. Was the junior recces like recce platoon of today? What was their pupose and did they form part of Support company like it is today.
I dont know much about the junior recces,all i know is they spent three months training at the Bluff and DukuDuku and were trained by the recces.
I think it could be something like you guys have today,also dont know if they were intergrated into a regular infantry platoon,dont think they were a sparate platoon.

[GETSOME]

My first time to see this one,thats way before my time but i will try and get my hands on our prototype, and post it 2morrow. Was the junior recces like recce platoon of today? What was their pupose and did they form part of Support company like it is today.
Do you still see these badges around?
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/8599/fwdaircontrlremb756206dif4.png
FORWARD AIR CONTROLLER
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3959/aao17abig3bdecc2hx2.jpg
EXPLOSIVE ORDINANCE DISPOSAL

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

What was your mustering, rank, post particulars

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

Yes both are still in use, the forward air controler is very rare as the course involves the air force and is very budget heavy. last time i heard one was presented about three years ago.

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

yes they are both still in use but the forward air controler is very rare due to the fact that the course involves the airforce and is very budget heavy. the last time i heard of one being presented was about three years ago.

[GETSOME]

What was your mustering, rank, post particulars
I have sent you a PM.

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

Sent You One Two

[TGVorster]

Back on track blokes. Monicer has changed but this saffer never dissapears too long. Got some new photos for the blokes.

[GETSOME]

Back on track blokes. Monicer has changed but this saffer never dissapears too long. Got some new photos for the blokes.
So ,where the ****ing new photos you promisedp-)

[TGVorster]

HA HA HA in due time my padawan learner.

[GETSOME]

HA HA HA in due time my padawan learner.
You the roofie here not me,hahaha:)

[TGVorster]

Roof eh? Ja wel I is seker eh :oops:

[baboon6]

Formation of 43 Airborne Brigade

According to this thread on ArmyTalk, the SA Army's parachute and air assault elements have been reorganised into a new brigade, whether this is permanent or just for Exercise Young Eagle which is taking place at the moment I don't know, I assume it is based on the existing 43 Brigade HQ:


http://groups.google.co.za/group/ArmyTalk/browse_thread/thread/f6a7f975df93a1bc?hl=en

Can't find any official news but apparently structure is as follows:

Airborne Planning and Command Team from 44 Para Regt
1 Para Bn
6 SAI Bn
44 Pathfinder Pl
41 Light Artillery Batt
104 Anti Aircraft [battery?]
221 Engineer Troop
Staging Unit
16 Maint Unit
101 Field Workshop Troop
Mobile Air Ops Team
Composite Air Group
Elements of 7 Medical Battalion
Special Forces Task Team
10 Signals Sqn
Provost Pl
Environmental Team
Composite Fire Fighting Team

Approximately 1325 soldiers in all.

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

As Promised This Is How It Looks

[GETSOME]

As Promised This Is How It Looks
Can you explain the triangle and the colours?
Thanks for that.

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

Well, the wreath is surpose to symbolise victory and if you look inside the triangle you will see what looks like stars, this is the southern cross which im sure you know is used by many to determine north. The inside of the triangle is half black and the other half is actualy green (just faded) this is the current infantry colours. Dont know what the triangle means, do you have any idea?

[TGVorster]

41 light artillery is part of 4 art regt and equipped with M5 120mm mortars. The LAA will be a battery. Alot of spes forces in this brigade I see. This will be the RRF of the SANDF and it is a permanent grouping. With the demise of the group HQs the SANDF has been forced to find a way to administer the various unit that it is composed of and these brigade groupings is one way.

42 SA Brigade is the main conventional might of the SANDF with the remainder of 4 art regt (Batteleur, G5 and G6 batteries), 1 tank regt, 1 SSB and 1 SAI. The last three is all clustered together at Tempe and Tempe is rightly called the home of south african conventional power.

The remainder of the units are light infantry units with the peacekeeping as their main aim.

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

How Old Are The Current 120mm Mortars? I Know The Current 81mm Used By The Infantry Are Being Replaced By A More Modern 60mm That Has A Better Range Than The Current 81's. The Patmor And Conventional 60mm Will However Be Retained.

[TGVorster]

Old, very old. A bud of mine at 4 art is always complaining about barrels cracking. Problem is the ammo. They mostly fire the RA rounds which hammer those barrels. However it is still great heavy artillery and will soldier on as the main artillery of 44 Para until the army can afford the newer L7 105mm howitzer.

The 81mm will be replaced in motorised infantry units with the long range 60mm but will soldier on in the Ratel 81s. The new 60s are alot more lethal than the old 81s and if memory serves has a 1.5 times larger blast raduis and 2km more range. Exceptional.

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

TGVorster, school of armour or 1 SSB?

[TGVorster]

Badge? Or me? Badge is School of Armor. Me well I am researching the Ops Modular/Hooper/Packer battles and got adopted by guys at the school of armor kinda.

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

I meant you, so not a soldier then, any military exsperience?

[TGVorster]

Ha do weekend warrior count? Dabbled at varsity did that reserve force camper course.

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

Well, If You Ask Me Thats More Than Most Folks On This Site, Respect!!!!

[TGVorster]

Anyhoo I promised pics so as soon as my photobucket is sorted I will post them.

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

How do you post pics on this site, only managed attachments so far, whats ops modular/hooper/packer battles all about?

[TGVorster]

Open a Photobucket account, load the images onto the site then paste the url provide by the site into the message screen.

Modular/Hooper/Packer was three operations in 87/88 in which the then SADF was involved in the biggest conventional battles of the bush war in central angola. During these ops the SADF employed tanks the first time since the second world war. The campaign resulted in a cuban withdrawal from angola and peace in SWA/Nam and later in SA.

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

Thanx for that bit of history but why was the SADF there in the first place, could'nt they fight there own battles, smells fishy to me.

[TGVorster]

Hmmm well my friend. Why were we in SWA for that matter. All down to politics.

[GETSOME]

Thanx for that bit of history but why was the SADF there in the first place, could'nt they fight there own battles, smells fishy to me.
The Russian and Cubans were in Angola at the time.

[TGVorster]

Long and short of it. Brush up on your military history by reading The war for africa by fred bridgeland.

[GETSOME]

Long and short of it. Brush up on your military history by reading The war for africa by fred bridgeland.
Look it up on Wikipedia ,it will give you a general idea.p-)

[TGVorster]

You trust Wiki? Damn Dude! p-)

[GETSOME]

You trust Wiki? Damn Dude! p-)
It will give him a basic clue ,idea of what happened.

[TGVorster]

Better sites for that. Time I started my own too.

[Maktab]

RThe wiki articles are imperfect, but they provide a decent outline of what happened. From that you can branch off into other sites and the various books written about the conflict to get a deeper understanding.

[GETSOME]

RThe wiki articles are imperfect, but they provide a decent outline of what happened. From that you can branch off into other sites and the various books written about the conflict to get a deeper understanding.
Thank you ,thats what im trying to say:roll:

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

thanx for the tips, im off to wiki.

[GV1]

Entac, Tigercat, ZSU 23/2, Cactus, ZT Ratel ,

ZSU 23/2 not really a South African weapon, but like the RPG7 we captured so many they became standard issue in the SADF

Only come across this site recently,Do you have any more pictures of the Tiger cat .I was trained on that system it was referred as the HILDA missile system and consisted of two parts I only have a few old photos of the main console and would like some more photos.We were part of a unit based at Hammanskraal called 250 Air Defence unit .We had the Hilda system,Cactus and we were trained on the 23 mm cannon The 23mm cannons from our base were handed over to the army in 1990. 250 ADAG was an Airforce unit
Thanks

[wilhelm]

GV1, can you post those pictures you have?

[exT70]

All this came about late this year so currently only the concept is in place and nothing much else, (winding down for the festive season)It seems as if the navy will supply the boats along with the coxains and also maintain the boats as they are already equiped for that. Training will most problably take place at sas simons town or sas saldanha, not sure, as for spes equipment no detail yet. hopfully with the new year there should be new developemets. There is currently no SA doctrine, except for the old marine doctrine which is out-dated.

Whole sea-landed thing is part of SANDF Vision 2020. Part of restructuring of SANDF. After the whole f-up that resulted in appointing Civvy "consultants" (see what happens when you ask accountants to run the army) at huge cost to change the system, we are now going back to basically the previous structure. This also applies for Brigade/Div system of before, with changes. New airlanded and sealanded, together with Bats (and maybe Recces - who knows, recces change formation every 3 minutes) to form part of new Special Forces Brig. Airlanded now up and running. Sealanded still nowhere. No boats, no equipment, no doctrine, no training, no nothing. Yet. Been talking about it for about 2 years now. Luqzul's Bn Cmdr has been tasked to write the doctrine himself. Was supposed to start after their deployment of earlier this year. Now will only start maybe next year. Any training for the time being will only be preparotary training (eg more water orientation, boat familiarisation etc). Most of the sea-landed thing is still a long way off before it becomes an effective reality.

[playtym]

(see what happens when you ask accountants to run the army)

Don't be hating accountants, we're not all boring old men in grey suits, the army just hired the wrong ones! p-)

[exT70]

Hmmm.... 9 SAI. You guys have the Lion Rampant holding the Arrows and Sword as an emblem, don't you? Do you have a specific name for that? Maybe your radio callsign, or nickname?

They used to have the "Lion" as their emblem which was a left over from the SACC days. Emblem had rampant lion on it with slogan "Ebenhauser" (spelling??!!) underneath. All unit specific infantry badges have been replaced with the standard infantry gazell head and horns("bokkop"). The original "balkies" underneath the badges have also been removed from all headress. A number of 9SAI's older troops however still wear the old Ebenhauser badges.

Luqzul, are you a MSD member?

[playtym]

They used to have the "Lion" as their emblem which was a left over from the SACC days. Emblem had rampant lion on it with slogan "Ebenhauser" (spelling??!!) underneath. All unit specific infantry badges have been replaced with the standard infantry gazell head and horns("bokkop"). The original "balkies" underneath the badges have also been removed from all headress. A number of 9SAI's older troops however still wear the old Ebenhauser badges.

Thanks for that info. I didn't think my memory was that bad, but I was doubting myself after I asked the question, and he said they didn't use it.

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

No im not, been in the unit since '97

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

i did not say we dont use it, i meant we dont have a nick name for it, and if i remember correctly the order that came out said all unit beret badges are to be replaced by the corps insignia, the corps insignia of the infantry has since changed from a bokkie to a circular badge with a knob kierie and a spear crossed, the green and black colours are in the background surrounded by a wreath. there seems to be problem distributing the badge.

EDIT: Ok not a knobkirrie but a sword, my bad

[TGVorster]

For the love of mike these boneheads should stop f-ing about with the emblems and focus on training and disipline. F-ing knopkierrie I tell you...:bash:

[GETSOME]

For the love of mike these boneheads should stop f-ing about with the emblems and focus on training and disipline. F-ing knopkierrie I tell you...:bash:
What was wrong with the bokkop,i mean the springbok is South Africas national animal.
Onder elka bokkop is daar a groot fokop(i was proud to be a bokkop):)

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

Agter elke bok kop is daar n fok op, i was told.
HAHAHAHAHA:)

[exT70]

Agter elke bok kop is daar n fok op, i was told.
HAHAHAHAHA:)

"Graspol in die hôl" we used to say.

[TGVorster]

Take away a soldier's pride in his unit and his corps and you loose all forms of disipline. They need something to band around. Dumb ass goverment.

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

Here are the pics:

9 SAI

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd97/luqzul/9SAI.jpg[/IMG]

NEW INFANTRY

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd97/luqzul/newinfantry.jpg[/IMG]

[TGVorster]

Strange to see a sword bayonet on the badge as the SADF/SANDF hasn't issued bayonets since the late 70s. And why is the laurel reath on it too. What have they been victorious over? That reath must in my opinion be a honour that is only awarded to certain units.

[baboon6]

41 light artillery is part of 4 art regt and equipped with M5 120mm mortars.

What vehicles do they use to to tow the 120mm mortar these days? I know it used to be Unimogs.

[GETSOME]

What vehicles do they use to to tow the 120mm mortar these days? I know it used to be Unimogs.
Wow Unimogs ,how long ago did u do your service:)
When i was in ,i think they used Samil 50s,but i could be wrong.

[baboon6]

Wow Unimogs ,how long ago did u do your service:)
When i was in ,i think they used Samil 50s,but i could be wrong.

Sure it wasn't Samil-20s? I'm younger than you mate, I missed national servcie (just).

[GETSOME]

Sure it wasn't Samil-20s? I'm younger than you mate, I missed national servcie (just).
Yeh you right,Samil 20s,mmm im getting old.:roll:

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

Does anyone know what the SAMIL/SAMAG range is going to be replaced with?

[GETSOME]

Does anyone know what the SAMIL/SAMAG range is going to be replaced with?
What do the rumors say:)

[GETSOME]

I dont think these have been posted here before.
Recces in Liberia.
http://tropaselite.t35.com/sadf_special_forces_liberia_2003_4.jpg
http://tropaselite.t35.com/sadf_special_forces_liberia_2003_3.jpg
http://tropaselite.t35.com/sadf_special_forces_liberia_2003_2.jpg
http://tropaselite.t35.com/sadf_special_forces_liberia_2003_1.jpg

[TGVorster]

The 120mm is just used by 44 Para so Jakkals and now the Gecko. The Samil range will be replaced before 2010 but by what I don't know.

[Ironsight06]

I dont think these have been posted here before.

Only a dozen times already. p-)

[TGVorster]

There is something that bugs me about those photos. Why are their faces visible and why the hell is the RPG stil there. I get the RPD because the SS77 sucks but the FT5 is an excelent weapon. Plus one has two mags taped together. Thought that was cardinal sin.

[Ironsight06]

There is something that bugs me about those photos. Why are their faces visible and why the hell is the RPG stil there. I get the RPD because the SS77 sucks but the FT5 is an excelent weapon.
Costs? FT5 is also quite a bit bigger.

[wilhelm]

Costs? FT5 is also quite a bit bigger.

I think it has to do with cost. There is not a lot out there in most war-torn African regions that would need the FT-5 that the RPG-7 couldn't handle methinks.

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

Last Year, Some Post Rpg7 Anti-tank Qaulified Members Of My Unit Were Recalled For Suplementry Training In The Rpg7 Currently We Are Not Training Anyone On The Ft5 Anymore. We Have Even Received A Few Rpg7 (old But Functional) For Training Our Troops. It Might Have To Do With The Scarcity Of The Ammo And The Price Perhaps.

[TGVorster]

Agreed on the cost plus the RPG 7 has an AP round the FT5 doesn't have. Still the taped together mags. WTF expected more from a rekker.

[GETSOME]

Agreed on the cost plus the RPG 7 has an AP round the FT5 doesn't have. Still the taped together mags. WTF expected more from a rekker.
I dont understand,whats the problem with the taped mags?

[TGVorster]

When you hit the deck dirt and **** tends to enter the bottom mag. This dirt will cause a jam therefore unlike Rambo a soldier is discouraged from doing it. A SF type should know better.

These ous might be part of the VIP protection group which cooperate with the Recces and which is formed from the best soldiers of various units. I know an ex-marine who served with the VIP PG and was awarded an order of the leopard for his exploits in the DRC.

[GETSOME]

When you hit the deck dirt and **** tends to enter the bottom mag. This dirt will cause a jam therefore unlike Rambo a soldier is discouraged from doing it. A SF type should know better.

These ous might be part of the VIP protection group which cooperate with the Recces and which is formed from the best soldiers of various units. I know an ex-marine who served with the VIP PG and was awarded an order of the leopard for his exploits in the DRC.
They said the same to us in basics,but during fire and movement training we were allowed to tape our mags,and when we were on the border on patrols we used to tape our mags.

[Rudolph]

http://users.iafrica.com/j/jr/jrp/Rooivalk.wmv

Not sure how much bandwidth I have, but I have 2 more docu's on SA weaponry.

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

That Video Is Hot, If You Cant Post The Other Two, Where Can I Get Hold Of Them.

[Rudolph]

Rooikat (http://users.iafrica.com/j/jr/jrp/SADF_Vehicles.wmv) and other vehicles.

[oldone]

Never had a problem with taped up mags whilst on the border :)

[R/cst]

Just found this interesting artical on News24

Army 'needs more white people'
05/12/2007 14:38 - (SA)


Pretoria - A decision made in the late 1990s to source out jobs such as those of chefs and mechanics has come back to haunt the SA National Defence Force (SANDF), its newly appointed chief of human resource Lieutenant General Derrick Mgwebi said on Wednesday.
Mgwebi said the defence force had started an active recruitment campaign in schools and among young people - and it was looking for top matriculants to serve in the military.
"We want people with high marks in maths and physics," Mgwebi said.
This forms part of an effort to rejuvenate the defence force, but at the same time, the initiative would also fill highly skilled positions in the force including special force operators, engineers, doctors, pilots, air traffic controllers and explosives technicians.
Mgwebi said the military also needed people to fill chefs' jobs and mechanic's positions. The SANDF currently has about 56 000 uniformed personnel working in all four services; army, air force, navy and medical health service.
Challenges
The SANDF has received more than 102 700 applications for the two-year-military skills development programme of which 4 000 would be appointed in the coming year.
Mgwebi, however, pointed out that there were challenges which required the recruitment of top matriculants.
He said the defence force was also struggling to recruit young white men and woman to join the force.
He said at junior level, there were too few white people - this meant that the force was not achieving its equity targets.
"It means we must go out to schools and say to young white people 'there is a space for you, come onboard - we can develop a future for you'," Mgwebi said.
Without mentioning the HIV and Aids pandemic directly, he said that it was also a challenge for the defence force to find healthy young people to join up. The SANDF has launched a series of television and radio adverts including ads in Afrikaans targeted at young people, highlighting the military as an "employer of choice".
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2233338,00.html

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

This is very true, our unit received about 360 members from the 2006 intake of which only 8 are white(male only). What has caused the interest of white south africans to drop so drasticaly? Is it possible that their parents are influencing them based on there bad experiences during national service? or is it something else?

[R/cst]

This is very true, our unit received about 360 members from the 2006 intake of which only 8 are white(male only). What has caused the interest of white south africans to drop so drasticaly? Is it possible that their parents are influencing them based on there bad experiences during national service? or is it something else?

I would say that due to the current policy of affirmative action, they do not see the possibility of much career advancement within the military. Also I am sure that the private sector salaries are much more attractive
Most of the men I know remember their period of national service with fondness, however there is a general feeling that the standards have dropped.

Possibly they should bring back a form of national service, but rather offer bursaries and other incentives to encourage young people of all colours to join.

I missed out on national service by a year and I do think it would have done me some good

[Rudolph]

Did you guys watch the SABC news last night? They discussed Cuito Cuanavale in parliament. They will be holding a huge event next year, possibly involving Cuba, Russia and Angola. They also spoke to former SADF-head Jannie Geldenhuys who asked what kind of winning side executes the leader of its forces for a victory? (ah, the sarcasm) I forsee new books, documentaries... and eventually a film. I nominate Edward Zwick, who did such a great job with Blood Diamond.

On a different note, hopefully AJ Venter or Willem Steenkamp will do a follow-up to cover the mercenaries in Iraq. That is one story that still needs to be told, especially seeing as SA-soldiers make out the third largest foreign national group outside USA and Britain.

Anyway, enjoy the weekend fellow Dutchmen and Rooinekke!

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

So if i am not a dutchman or rooinek should i not enjoy the weekend?

[Rudolph]

You should, go watch the Sevens Rugby in George.

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

hahahahahaha:):):)

[GETSOME]

So if i am not a dutchman or rooinek should i not enjoy the weekend?
Im none of the above as well,but a kapenaar.:)

[GETSOME]

This is very true, our unit received about 360 members from the 2006 intake of which only 8 are white(male only). What has caused the interest of white south africans to drop so drasticaly? Is it possible that their parents are influencing them based on there bad experiences during national service? or is it something else?
I think only a few percentage of the intake had a bad experience,i think it was one of the best years of my life ,which i will never forget.p-)
As R/cst said the standards have dropped very drastically,it just doesnt seem that professional any more,too corrupt,undisciplined,aids and average age 35years(too old).

[Rudolph]

Was anyone here in Lesotho 1998?

[Rudolph]

You guys heard this one?

There's an old joke based on this (http://members.aol.com/XPUS2/SouthAfrica.html) idea of making South Africa a US state and thus solving the minority white problem.
President Botha meets with his cabinet. He wants them to find a solution on how to "fix" this situation they are in. Everyone comes to the fore with some or other idea, but he rejects them all.
Then one gentleman suggests: "Let's start a war with America. Once we've lost we'll be incoporated as a state and then we won't be a minority anymore!"

Botha thinks about it and asks: "And if we win?"

[REMOV]

I am looking for photos of the new, upgraded (Project Warrior) 5,56 mm R4 assault rifle with STANAG 2324 (Picatinny) rails and a underbarrel grenade launcher.

[TGVorster]

Bastard Commies think they have the only line of truth on Cuito. Time I finnish my book. But some of what they said does have a ring of truth to it.

[exT70]

I think only a few percentage of the intake had a bad experience,i think it was one of the best years of my life ,which i will never forget.p-)
As R/cst said the standards have dropped very drastically,it just doesnt seem that professional any more,too corrupt,undisciplined,aids and average age 35years(too old).
double post

[exT70]

I think only a few percentage of the intake had a bad experience,i think it was one of the best years of my life ,which i will never forget.p-)
As R/cst said the standards have dropped very drastically,it just doesnt seem that professional any more,too corrupt,undisciplined,aids and average age 35years(too old).

Many people seem to have a distorted memory re the erstwhile SADF. Some parts of it were good, others not. Many of todays' troops will run rings around some of the so calles "old" SA troops. In some other ways not. Selective memory is a very interesting thing...
Just as interesting is the question who you compare the current force to. The pre-war peace time army of say '76, or at the height of the war?
And I wonder how the conscript army would have dealt with today's peacekeeping duties. People also conveniently tend to forget the extent of todays deployments. In effect is means a minimum of 9 Bns constantly preparing to deploy, deploying or demobbing.
Amongst many so called "whites" there is a perception that the military does not offer a career or much chance of promotion, due to affirmative action. Many, or dare I say most, of the white kids that today profess to want to do military service, will most probably not be willing to do what it takes. In good units training is still tough.

Back to some posts ago. FT5/RPG7 and the pics of the recces. FT5 was withdrawn from duty in 2006. RPG cheaper and much more rugged. "Taping" of magazines is no great isseu, it just depends who is using it. Usually not a good idea, ordinary troops do not handle the extra weight and "clogging" well. Also remember R4 is quite a robust rifle.

[exT70]

Bastard Commies think they have the only line of truth on Cuito. Time I finnish my book. But some of what they said does have a ring of truth to it.
Definition of victory?
The Brits lost at Waterloo. France is still France.

[sierratango]

This may be of interest to some on the board...

http://1rli.wordpress.com/

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

Ppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
Ppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
Ppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
Pppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
Pppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
Pppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
Pppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp

[luqzul@telkomsa.net]

Many people seem to have a distorted memory re the erstwhile SADF. Some parts of it were good, others not. Many of todays' troops will run rings around some of the so calles "old" SA troops. In some other ways not. Selective memory is a very interesting thing...
Just as interesting is the question who you compare the current force to. The pre-war peace time army of say '76, or at the height of the war?
And I wonder how the conscript army would have dealt with today's peacekeeping duties. People also conveniently tend to forget the extent of todays deployments. In effect is means a minimum of 9 Bns constantly preparing to deploy, deploying or demobbing.
Amongst many so called "whites" there is a perception that the military does not offer a career or much chance of promotion, due to affirmative action. Many, or dare I say most, of the white kids that today profess to want to do military service, will most probably not be willing to do what it takes. In good units training is still tough.

Im with you on this one,as i am currently serving, just got back from Burundi in August. It is exactly as you say.

[mxw99]

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/CHRIST%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpgDoes anyone think this guy is gonna hit the TARGET?

[mxw99]

http://www.defensereview.com/1_31_2004/Milkor%20MGL%20Mk-1S_1.jpg

Does anyone think that this soldier will hit the target?
I doubt it....................

[Rudolph]

Huh? Because he's black?

[playtym]

Huh? Because he's black?

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/playtym/Funny%20Pics/racecard.png

[mxw99]

No, niet, nein, nicht, non, nie, nee
nothing to do with the fact he is black - the guy is aiming with his left eye and holding the rifle against his right shoulder....
now- this is not what my father thought me....................................

[playtym]

No, niet, nein, nicht, non, nie, nee
nothing to do with the fact he is black - the guy is aiming with his left eye and holding the rifle against his right shoulder....
now- this is not what my father thought me....................................

I guess your dad's never fired a Multiple Grenade Launcher then. p-)

If you look at the picture he's actually aiming with both eyes open - it's just the angle from which the picture is taken that makes it look like he's aiming with his left eye.
The MGL uses an OEG (Occluded Eye Gunsight). One eye sees the target, the other the sight, and your brain combines the two images into one. Lots of shooters use the same technique with red dot sights.

[exT70]

I guess your dad's never fired a Multiple Grenade Launcher then. p-)

If you look at the picture he's actually aiming with both eyes open - it's just the angle from which the picture is taken that makes it look like he's aiming with his left eye.
The MGL uses an OEG (Occluded Eye Gunsight). One eye sees the target, the other the sight, and your brain combines the two images into one. Lots of shooters use the same technique with red dot sights.

Wait till you spend a couple of days in 42ºC heat doing 2nd phase or ATR/ACR conversion and most of the 120 student course insists that they just simply cannot see the red pillar on the MGL .....