South African National Defence Force

[prion]

Hi all,

Also, does anyone have any pictrues of teh SANDF ghillie suit? I have sen a small picture of one and was looking for larger higher-res pictures.

Thanks


Welcome SADFPuma. Are you looking for something like this:

[wilhelm]

Radios, night sights/viewers, and support equipment.

[wilhelm]

More of the above. I remember using the Kot for the first time and being amazed by it. It is quite heavy and bulky though to carry about, so we used it in vehicle O.P.'s

[SADFPuma]

Thanks for the welcome Prion.

Ja, the pic is perfect.

Do you or anyone else for that matter know if the SANDF use the G3 as a sniper rifle and if the suits are standard equipment or do SANDF snipers make their own suits?

[wilhelm]

Some descriptions from the Brassey's series. The pic below (3rd attachment) appears to be equipped with the 84mm and therefore is a Centurion, not an Olifant. I stand under correction though.

ext70, isn't the roadrange of 250 km a little on the low side?

[wilhelm]

The Olifant Mk1B.

[wilhelm]

The TTD that would eventually have replaced the Olifant series. The end result would have been a 60 ton MBT in the Leopard 2 class.

[baboon6]

Some descriptions from the Brassey's series. The pic below (3rd attachment) appears to be equipped with the 84mm and therefore is a Centurion, not an Olifant. I stand under correction though.

ext70, isn't the roadrange of 250 km a little on the low side?

Well, the last 150 or so Centurions were built with the 105mm gun (Mk.10s), and the 105 was retrofitted to many earlier marks too, both those bring used by the British Army and by other countries. For example a Mk.5 equipped with the 105 is known as a Mk.5/2, and the Mk7 as a Mk.7/2. Many of the most numerous production model, the Mk.3, were brought up to Mk.5 standard, and some must have become Mk.5/2s.

AFAIK as I know all the Centurions acquired by South Africa came with 84mm guns, but a 105 does not make a tank not a Centurion.

See here for a comprehensive list of mark numbers and designations (both British and not) and what they mean:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centurion_tank

[GETSOME]

Any body have any info on these wings,supposed to be 32 Battalion?

[GETSOME]

The Samil 50 and Samil 20. I think every person who has ever worn a military uniform in South Africa over the last quarter century or so will be familiar with the Samil 20. A real jack-of-all-trades.
I think that there are some that are more familier with the Bedfords.p-)

[GETSOME]

Below are some scans of the Wolf ICV. An interesting vehicle developed in Namibia (basically part of South Africa then) to replace the Casspir. Noteworthy features are the massive amounts of power available, and the operating range of 2000km!

The original Wolf Mk1 had 10 built in machine guns (5 each side) in the rear troop compartment, but this was later deemed excessive and removed from the Wolf Mk2.

The related Sterk Hans recovery vehicle is very interesting due to it's 6x6 format. Also here are the ubiquitous Buffel, and the Samil 20 based Bulldog that was designed as a Buffel replacement but never taken into service.
The Wolf Turbos Caspirs where used a lot by Koevoet.

[GETSOME]

Thats the one Cardinalius. It was fired with the ballistic round. A cursory look via google doesn't reveal any images out there.

Welcome to the thread.:)
But if you didnt have any ballist rounds(remember the little 5 round mag)you could use a normal round,which would go out throught the little glass on the side .p-)

[baboon6]

But if you didnt have any ballist rounds(remember the little 5 round mag)you could use a normal round,which would go out throught the little glass on the side .p-)

Okay it's called a ballistite round. A "ballistic round" just means a normal bullet.


The 12-round magazine, color-coded with whith stripes, is blocked to accept only ballistite (blank) cartridges for launching rifle grenades

http://www.remtek.com/arms/imi/galil/index.htm

Well they showed me what to do as one of the Rhodesians slipped the tail of the grenade over the business end of the FN, cocked the weapon, inserted a ballistite cartridge and pulled the trigger ... "Bang". The ballistite cartridge launched the weapon, and the grenade went down-range for about 30 to 50 metres.

http://riv.co.nz/rnza/tales/nagle2.htm

[wilhelm]

AFAIK as I know all the Centurions acquired by South Africa came with 84mm guns, but a 105 does not make a tank not a Centurion.


Some questions if I may..:)

Do you know when the name Olifant was first used instead of the Centurion? Was it the late 1970's diesel re-engining programme that resulted in the new name?

Did any of the re-engined tanks retain the 84mm over the 105mm?
When was the 105mm adopted over the 84mm? I remember someone (was it ext70?) stating that the 84mm was still used in training for a few years after the adoption of the 105mm.

[wilhelm]

APG-65 as discussed earlier.

[GETSOME]

Okay it's called a ballistite round. A "ballistic round" just means a normal bullet.


The 12-round magazine, color-coded with whith stripes, is blocked to accept only ballistite (blank) cartridges for launching rifle grenades

http://www.remtek.com/arms/imi/galil/index.htm

Well they showed me what to do as one of the Rhodesians slipped the tail of the grenade over the business end of the FN, cocked the weapon, inserted a ballistite cartridge and pulled the trigger ... "Bang". The ballistite cartridge launched the weapon, and the grenade went down-range for about 30 to 50 metres.

http://riv.co.nz/rnza/tales/nagle2.htm
Oops ,****ed up there.:oops:
Was suppose to say that the rifle grenades where fired with blanks(a little 5 round mag was supplied,for R4),no blanks, then normal rounds could be used.:oops:

[flanker7]

That rifle grenade looks very much like the M791A3 we use here. South African made

[baboon6]

Some questions if I may..:)

Do you know when the name Olifant was first used instead of the Centurion? Was it the late 1970's diesel re-engining programme that resulted in the new name?

Did any of the re-engined tanks retain the 84mm over the 105mm?
When was the 105mm adopted over the 84mm? I remember someone (was it ext70?) stating that the 84mm was still used in training for a few years after the adoption of the 105mm.

Before Olifant we had Skokiaan and Semel- these were Centurions with some but not all of the upgrades which Olifant had.

Skokiaan- V12 petrol engine and automatic transmission, 8 converted in 1972
Semel- modified engine, 35 converted in 1974
Olifant Mk.1- from 1978- diesel engine?, new transmission, 105mm gun
Olifant Mk.1A- entered service 1985, diesel engine, 105mm gun, semi-automatic transmission, laser rangefinder
Olifant Mk.1B- entered service 1991, new powerpack and fire control equpment, improved belly armour, improved night vision gear, new armour modules
Olifant Mk.2- new turret

I know we have been through all this before, there is a whole Olifant thread somewhere, but I'm still a bit confused. Did Olifant Mk.1 use a diesel or petrol engine? Sources vary on this. I'm pretty sure the 84mm gun would only have been used for training by the 1980s.

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=476&Itemid=362

http://www.janes.com/extracts/extract/jaa/jaa_0060.html

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/olifant/

[baboon6]

Note: all of the following slides were taken from the SA Army website, they are AFAIK up to date

SA Army Infantry Formation orbat:



CTH= Cape Town Highlanders
RDLR= Regiment De La Rey
DLI= Durban Light Infantry
RWP= Regiment Westelike Provinsie
RNT= Regiment Noord Transvaal
WR= Wi****ersrand Rifles
SAIR= South African Irish Regiment
TS= Transvaal Scottish
JR= Johannesburg Regiment
TR= ?
RB= Regiment Botha
RCB= Regiment Christiaan Beyers
KR= Kimberley Regiment
RBS= Regiment Bloemspruit
RPR= Regiment Piet Retief
DR= Durban Regiment
NC= Natal Carbineers
RDW= Regiment De Wet
RLI= Rand Light Infantry
RPK= Regiment President Kruger
ROR= Regiment Oos Rand
FC= First City
PAG= Prince Alfred's Guard
CTR= Cape Town Rifles

Note: most reserve infantry battalions are way understrength; some can put a company in the field, a few maybe more than one coy, some are almost non-existent. The same applies to reserve units from other corps.

SA Army Artillery Formation orbat:



CFA= Cape Field Artillery
NFA= Natal Field Artillery
THA= Transvaal Horse Artillery
VAR= Vrystaat Artillerie Regiment
TSA= Transvaal Staatsartillerie
RPU= Regiment Potchefstroom Universiteit

SA Army Armour Formation orbat:



1 SSB= 1 Special Service Battalion
1 Tk Regt= 1 Tank Regiment
NMR= Natal Mounted Rifles
UMR= Umvoti Mounted Rifles
LHR= Light Horse Regiment
RPS= Regiment President Steyn
ROR= Regiment Oranjerivier
RMR= Regiment Mooirivier

SA Air Defence Arillery Formation orbat:



CGA= Cape Garrison Artillery
RVR= Regiment Vaalrivier
ROT= Regiment Oos Transvaal

SA Army Engineer formation orbat:



SA Army Intelligence Formation orbat:



SA Army Signal Formation orbat:



SA Army Support Formation orbat:



TSC= Technical Services Corps
OSC= Ordnance Services Corps

SA Army Training Formation orbat:



Combat Training Centre= conventional warfare training at brigade/battle group/combat team level, as well as presenting some individual operations and staff courses to junior officers and NCOs

http://www.actc.army.mil.za/index.htm

SA Army College= mid-level staff courses

SA Army Gymnasium= officers formative training for MSDS and reserve force candidates and those regulars who don't enter the army though the Military Academy (which trains regular officers from all four services)

3 SA Infantry Battalion= basic military training

Brigade HQs:

[wilhelm]

Before Olifant we had Skokiaan and Semel- these were Centurions with some but not all of the upgrades which Olifant had.

Skokiaan- V12 petrol engine and automatic transmission, 8 converted in 1972
Semel- modified engine, 35 converted in 1974
Olifant Mk.1- from 1978- diesel engine?, new transmission, 105mm gun
Olifant Mk.1A- entered service 1985, diesel engine, 105mm gun, semi-automatic transmission, laser rangefinder
Olifant Mk.1B- entered service 1991, new powerpack and fire control equpment, improved belly armour, improved night vision gear, new armour modules
Olifant Mk.2- new turret

I know we have been through all this before, there is a whole Olifant thread somewhere, but I'm still a bit confused. Did Olifant Mk.1 use a diesel or petrol engine? Sources vary on this. I'm pretty sure the 84mm gun would only have been used for training by the 1980s.

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=476&Itemid=362

http://www.janes.com/extracts/extract/jaa/jaa_0060.html

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/olifant/

This is precisely why I asked earlier about the 105mm and the Centurion/Olifant name. Basically, I'm trying to establish when a Centurion stopped being a Centurion in South Africa and became an Olifant. I earlier wondered whether it had to do with not just a re-engining programme, but also an up-gunning programme to 105mm. Basically speaking .... were Centurions in South Africa upgunned from 84mm to 105mm prior to the 1978 advent of the Olifant Mk1? Were any Olifants still equipped with the 84mm, other than for training? Or was, as I suspect, the renaming from Centurion to Olifant as a result of the re-engining and re-arming programmes, thus making the main gun and powerpack the difference between an Olifant and Centurion?

Either way, some of the early re-engining, either the Skokiaan or Semel, used an 810hp petrol engine. I suspect this to be the Continental V12 petrol engine as used in the M-48. The Olifant Mk1 definitely used the 750hp Continental diesel. There are pictures of an example on the net next to an Olifant.

[wilhelm]

And while on the subject of tanks, here is another picture of the ARV based on the Comet, especially for ext70. :)

Picture from Armscor.

[prion]

There has been quite a debate on the 'net about helmet mounted sights and timelines/who were first etc. etc. I am just going to show what the SAAF's view is on the subject and the hardware in question.




The Helmet

[prion]

The Missiles and data:

[GETSOME]

About the helmet sights,in 1986-87 we were told we were the first to use and even invent it.p-)

[wilhelm]

There was an American Navy programme called VTAS that was evaluated in about 1975, but this was not fielded operationally. It was a relatively crude system.

Therefore, the first successful and properly working fielded missile with helmet cueing was achieved by South Africa. The Soviet system was, from what I've heard, an very similar rip-off of South Africa's system that was aided by technical information given by the traitor and convicted spy Dieter Gerhard.

[prion]

Only problem the was that the initial V3B (though first to use helmet cuing) had really poor performance and tended to detonate in the exhaust plume of the target with no effect.

[wilhelm]

Yes, the AAM missile programme is certainly an interesting one. I believe it started in 1961 or 1963 and the first result was an early sidewinder copy, as stated above.

[prion]

For me the really interesting on was the V3P where we bought some R-73's of the russians in the 90's for integration , but was canned.

[exT70]

Some descriptions from the Brassey's series. The pic below (3rd attachment) appears to be equipped with the 84mm and therefore is a Centurion, not an Olifant. I stand under correction though.

ext70, isn't the roadrange of 250 km a little on the low side?

Looks more like a 105 (84 had a more rounded extractor), but it is not a Olifant Mk1A, rather Mk1 or earlier. Doggys on glacis, air filters, back hull bin etc). See comments in this regard in Olifant thread (where I misID 84 as an 105 untill I saw 84 canisters lying in the foreground).

250km roadrange is correct. 200km cross country. Have always been the Cent series' major drawback.

[exT70]

Before Olifant we had Skokiaan and Semel- these were Centurions with some but not all of the upgrades which Olifant had.

Skokiaan- V12 petrol engine and automatic transmission, 8 converted in 1972
Semel- modified engine, 35 converted in 1974
Olifant Mk.1- from 1978- diesel engine?, new transmission, 105mm gun
Olifant Mk.1A- entered service 1985, diesel engine, 105mm gun, semi-automatic transmission, laser rangefinder
Olifant Mk.1B- entered service 1991, new powerpack and fire control equpment, improved belly armour, improved night vision gear, new armour modules
Olifant Mk.2- new turret

I know we have been through all this before, there is a whole Olifant thread somewhere, but I'm still a bit confused. Did Olifant Mk.1 use a diesel or petrol engine? Sources vary on this. I'm pretty sure the 84mm gun would only have been used for training by the 1980s.

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=476&Itemid=362

http://www.janes.com/extracts/extract/jaa/jaa_0060.html

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/olifant/

Mk1B never entered service. 1Tank Regt still uses Mk1A's (or did till last year).
The "new"/current Mk2 does not have a new turret. The "original" Mk2 would have had, but current Mk2 seems more like a cost compromise between the old Mk1B and Mk2.

[baboon6]

Mk1B never entered service. 1Tank Regt still uses Mk1A's (or did till last year).
The "new"/current Mk2 does not have a new turret. The "original" Mk2 would have had, but current Mk2 seems more like a cost compromise between the old Mk1B and Mk2.

Thanks for clearing things up a bit. I though the Mk.1B was the one with the extra armour. Just gone through the old Olifant thread again too!

So is this a "new" Mk2?

[prion]

exT70. Does the Mk-2 designation as the SANDF uses now as MBT mean a Mk-1B "advanced" like the Mk-1B Optimal or a Mk-1A with 1B add on armour and some Mk-2 capabilities like the commanders periscope. And what is the external visual hints to discern to ID the version.

For instance , what would this be:



Not trying to sound glib. Just really interested.

[exT70]

[quote=prion;3984252]exT70. Does the Mk-2 designation as the SANDF uses now as MBT mean a Mk-1B "advanced" like the Mk-1B Optimal or a Mk-1A with 1B add on armour and some Mk-2 capabilities like the commanders periscope. And what is the external visual hints to discern to ID the version.

I am not a current serving member of 1SA Tank Rgt (I jumped ship to the grassy dark side many years ago), so my knowledge tank wise is of the Mk1A that I served on and the period that I served in the SAAC. Wrt the Mk2 my knowledge is the same as yours. Talking to serving members, exhibitions, media (useless) etc, and some SANDF small talk.
In that light:
The original Mk1B was shown to us in 1990 and reported in the media to be procured for service. The Mk1B was an interim measure due to delays in project Loggim/Loggem? (which eventually lead to the TTD). To the best of my knowledge, taking part in the gunnery tests and climbing about on the version shown to us many years ago, and keeping in mind that the Mk1B was never series produced, it seemed to encompass an armour and engine upgrade (glacis, turret, etc). FCS etc were to be the same as the Mk1A. The different looking turret seems to fool many (same with the current Mk2). It is however just an add-on to the "original" Centurion turret still underneath. It was however never fielded and 1Tk Regt used the Mk1A until recently (your photo above actually helps quite a bit in this regard. The Mk2's in your pic seems to be parked at the miniature shooting range at the School, so therefore seems to be in use).
Some years back, a new turret, seemingly (that word again) a left-over from the TTD, was shown. This fitted a 105 or 120 (choice and upgradeable) with all new FCS etc. The media reported that this was procured as well, but never was. The turret was squared off, and like the TTD in general, resembled the Leo2A4 turret. This upgrade was labeled the Mk2 at the time. The funds from the cancelled new turret buy was redirected to another program at the time.
Enter the "new" Mk2.
No new turret, also still add-on shell dropped over the Cent turret and hull. Fits more powerful engine, new running gear, new sights, and all manner of improvements, but is still an (vastly) upgraded Centurion. I cannot comment on much of the upgrade, as I have no "inside" knowledge (and if I had, then I would n't have been able to comment). Whether the Mk1B and new Mk2 had the same armour package, who knows what are in the boxes of add-on. I know most in the armour corps does not. Engine is probably similar. I think the running gear is new. The thermal capability definitely is. Basic gunner's sight is the same, but seems to have thermal instead of passive "night elbow". Externally IDing the dif between old Mk1B and Mk2 would indeed be the huge sight head (ready to be removed by the first tree). Other difference would be difficult to ID and pointless, as the Mk1B was never produced (in numbers) and put in service. However, it should not be a problem, as I doubt whether you would ever have to distinguish between the two. The new Mk2 is in service in "x" number having been bought. The Mk1B is a footnote in history.

[exT70]

Mk2 Sight Head


Those of you familiar will recognise Centurion turret underneath add-on composite armour as seen over new driver's position.

[prion]

Thanks for the reply exT70.

So I take it the "real" Mk2 turret would have been this one:

[wilhelm]

Some pictures of the Rhino. The last one appears different and has 3 windows a side. I wonder whether this is a larger version perhaps based on the SAMIL-50? Pictures courtesy of Armscor back in the late 1980's..

[exT70]

Thanks for the reply exT70.

So I take it the "real" Mk2 turret would have been this one:



Yip, I think that is the pic that originally accompanied the report that the Mk2 turret has been acquired. Probably a TTD offshoot. Interesting to see that they did not make the same mistake with the sight location as with early Leo2 marks.

[exT70]

Finally got photobucket to work again.
Mk2 Gunner’s Station


Suspension

[wilhelm]

Fantastic and informative posts exT70. Very much appreciated.:)

[cold_warrior]

Here are some pictures of an Olifant from a different "angle" (if that's the right word) - Leon Schuster's film Oh Schucks, Here Comes UNTAG. It's the only time I've seen an Olifant in a feature film.

[prion]

At Swartkops AFB museum there are some hardware taken from the Border war , including a SA-9 with this added :



Looks like a SA-7B launcher.

[SADFPuma]

Hey guys,

I found a pamphlet about Old South African submarines, thought someone may like a look at it.

[YANKEEBOBB]

United Nations peacekeepers from South Africa Rwanda in the lush hills near Kilalo, eastern Congo

[YANKEEBOBB]

[cold_warrior]

Looks like somebody has a pack of cigs in his pocket. :)

[wilhelm]

Some more pictures of Armscor equipment. The 60mm mortar, Swartklip products including the APG-65, and another view of the 8x8 Ratel Logistic.

[Montechristo]

The Truvelo company makes some sniper rifles in various calibres for both anti-personnel and anti-material roles.Are there any reviews concerning their accuracy?

[GETSOME]

Signals,with Kippie die Kont(Kippie the cvnt) beret badgep-)

[Clint_Durban]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u_erX9KMnU

Been a while since I tried to embed a video!

[Snake Doctor]

NMR (Reserve Force Tank Regiment) celebrated their 155th anniversary with a combined Medal and Colour Parade on Saturday 21 March at RHQ in Durban. Also on parade with NMR were members of Durban Light Infantry and Natal Carbineers, as the 3 oldest Regiments. The GOC Armour Formation was present to receive the salute and issue medals to recipients.

[Snake Doctor]

Sorry am battling to upload the pics...

[Snake Doctor]

[R/cst]

Hi Guys I found a nice site detailing the SANDF weapons and equipment used during the border war, it has pics of everything

http://www.satruth.co.za/equip_00072.htm

[R/cst]

Here is another nice link with stories from that era
http://www.geocities.com/sadfbook/bgtoc.htm

[GETSOME]

Whats that badge between the corporal strips and the unit flash?

[Snake Doctor]

The wearing of the Regimental collar badge on the arm is an NMR tradition dating back to about the 1st World War I think. It is only worn by NCO's and WO's and is in remembrance of fallen members of The Regiment. It is worn only on Dress Uniforms and the badge is worn on a backing of The Regiments "Green" which signifies the amalgamation of 3 Reconnaissance (Armoured Car) with The NMR during WWII. The Collar Badges or Boot Badge as they are known, are worn facing outwards on the arm instead of facing in, as they are on the collar.

[GETSOME]

Thanks for that info.p-)

[prion]

Cactus at Swartkops AFB Museum.



Rear of launcher




Firing order

[prion]

Matra R.440 missile




Rear

[prion]

Specs




History

[wilhelm]

I've managed to get my brother to take some pretty comprehensive photo's of the 8X8 vehicle at the School of Armour Museum in Bloemfontein. It is the NGICV that was based on Rooikat components, and was developed as a Ratel successor during the 1980's.

I'll post them here if anyone is interested.

[prion]

I've managed to get my brother to take some pretty comprehensive photo's of the 8X8 vehicle at the School of Armour Museum in Bloemfontein. It is the NGICV that was based on Rooikat components, and was developed as a Ratel successor during the 1980's.

I'll post them here if anyone is interested.


And you need to ask?p-) Hell , post away!

[exT70]

I've managed to get my brother to take some pretty comprehensive photo's of the 8X8 vehicle at the School of Armour Museum in Bloemfontein. It is the NGICV that was based on Rooikat components, and was developed as a Ratel successor during the 1980's.

I'll post them here if anyone is interested.

Does a bear sh!t in the woods!!

[playtym]

[cold_warrior]

Is that last picture of a ZSU-23-2 mounted on a SAMIL 100 derivative?

[prion]

Is that last picture of a ZSU-23-2 mounted on a SAMIL 100 derivative?


Yes. It is called a Zumlac.

[wilhelm]

OK, will post at the end of today, or tomorrow morning first thing.

The vehicle has been on photo's on this thread, but has generally been in the backround, or obscured. It is the one parked next to the Bismark heavy armoured car.

[7 SAI BN Troep]

Jislaaik seen some troeps with fokkol houding,also know of some huge mothers FU of troops not following established protocols with artilery.Already 3 Pilatus crashed by student pilots being taught after two years(nogakl Zim instructors) not passing pilot course.Eish one of these days everything she is broken

[wilhelm]

Ok, here are the photo's as promised.

This appears to be the ICV developed on the Rooikat running gear from the early to mid 1980's. There have been 2 small pictures posted on the net and in this thread showing the vehicle equipped with what appears to be a Ratel-20 turret.

[wilhelm]

2nd lot of pictures.

I've seen the concept vehicles set up and tested for the original "Hoefyster" project, and it appears that Vehicle Concept "S" might be a further, larger extrapolation of this vehicle.

[R/cst]

Check this out SADF in russia (Airsoft team)
http://www.airbuffalo.ru/

[playtym]

Their technical advisor needs to be fired - using two generations of webbing together like that! :cantbeli:

[wilhelm]

Note the opening for the turret. The original vehicle, when shown off had what appeared to be a Ratel-20 turret slightly offset from the centre-line. The later "Hoefyster" concept vehicles had turrets mounting a 30mm or 35mm, and this turret appears to have been carried over to the Badger (Patria).

There were 2 small images of this original vehicle floating around.

EDIT: Found one of those pictures from a while back.

[playtym]

Written by Dean Wingrin Wednesday, 01 April 2009

Scrap merchants have ended the lives of the South African Air Force’s former Transall C160Z transport fleet, breaking up the airframes and taking the aviation-grade aluminum away for recycling. The bulldozers moved in on Friday and commenced the scrapping and destruction of the eight remaining airframes (331, 332, 333, 334, 335, 336, 338 and 339).

The sale and disposal of the aircraft has been hit by controversy since they were retired as a result of budget restrictions in 1993. Since then, the aircraft have been repeatedly been offered for sale.

The SAAF purchased nine Transall aircraft in 1969, but with one aircraft on display at the SAAF Museum at Swartkop Airfield, the balance were put up for disposal by Armscor, the government defence acquisition and disposal agency.

Since their withdrawal from SAAF service, the eight aircraft have been standing in the open at Waterkloof AFB, in an increasing state of neglect.

After several plans were formulated and dropped to return them to SAAF service, it was hoped to overhaul the aircraft before being flown to their new owners.

Then Heli-Lift Ltd of the UK was awarded a tender in 2000 for the marketing and sales distribution rights for the eight aircraft, together with spares and other related equipment.

In January 2001 it was reported that two US businessmen were looking at instituting legal action over a failed deal to purchase the eight redundant Transalls.

It was reported in September 2004 the Transalls were sold for spares to an overseas based company. The intention was they would never fly again but aircraft spares were the prime reason for purchase. It is not known when that sale took place.

Armscor began legal proceedings in June 2005 against Heli-Lift to recover R11 million ($1.65 million) still outstanding from the original purchase deal.

The July 2005 issue of UK-based AirForces Monthly magazine reported that as the aircraft were acquired during the arms embargo period, no 'traceability' for any of the C160Zs components could officially be established, making them unsellable. As the aircraft remained the property of South Africa until fully paid for by Heli-Lift, Armscor could resell the aircraft.

The magazine continued that the German government wanted to acquire the aircraft's engines from Heli-Lift, but only wished to pursue the deal on a government-to-government basis. They approached Armscor to act as middleman and a successful deal was brokered. The lack of provenance for the aircraft components is not an issue with a government-to-government deal hence the contract was concluded without difficulty.

Armscor once again called for tenders in November 2007 to purchase and remove the eight aircraft. Chief of the South African Air Force Lt Gen Carlo Gagiano, confirmed in 2008 that a buyer had stripped the aircraft of all valuable components and then abandoned the fuselages.

The scrap merchants have won the battle and the Transalls will no longer be a familiar sight to motorists driving past the Waterkloof base.

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1536&Itemid=350

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

[Rudolph]

Aerial capabilities of the Oryx helicopter are displayed by the SA Air Force during a demonstration in Limpopo. (Trevor Kolk, Sapa)

[prion]

[Boertjie01]

Playtym posted some pictures of SANDF soldiers in mock fighting above; The fith photo shows a guy firing a R4 with his mate next to him firing a LMG. Notice the guy with the R4- firing from the right sholder with his right eye closed and left eye aimimg. Funny, does the guys not get any basic weapons skills training?

[drevil5000]

Playtym posted some pictures of SANDF soldiers in mock fighting above; The fith photo shows a guy firing a R4 with his mate next to him firing a LMG. Notice the guy with the R4- firing from the right sholder with his right eye closed and left eye aimimg. Funny, does the guys not get any basic weapons skills training?

A lot of the army is made up of former MK fighters, and judging by their performance on the battlefield in the past Im not surprised he's aiming like that.

[exT70]

Where did you get the above two pics?
And the ones before of Hanglip? Which Hanglip was that?

[Falcon 1]

Howzit guys.

I'm new here, but after many years of using this thread and these forums for reference, I thought I'd share some progress we've made on a Border War mod for the combat simulation game; Armed Assault. Enjoy the screenshots and let us know what you think. ;-)


SADF Sapper planting a claymore mine while a buddy keeps a lookout.


SADF Mortar Crew on the move!


SADF Mortar Crew find their target after deploying their M3 mortar system.


An SADF tracker signals a possible contact to a stick of SADF infantry.


Same as above.


SADF Anti-tank crew wielding a captured RPG-7V against the very forces these communist bloc weapons were captured from.


SADF recce operators operating behind enemy lines, and preparing to take out a high profile target.


Members of the SADF Medical battalion working diligently to save the life of a SWAPO insurgent that was wounded in a skirmish with an SADF patrol.


Group photo of South African Defence Force Soldiers posing in front of a Zumlac Anti Aircraft Artillery Vehicle somewhere in the vicinity of the South West African / Angolan border.


Insertion of a group of 32 Battalion troops via Alouette III heli


Bospatrollie (Bushpatrol)


" Hurry up and wait "



For more info our site can be found at: http://www.armedassault.info/_hosted/bushwars/index.html

Ps. Thanks again for sharing your pictures and knowledge / experience here on the SADF/SANDF thread on MP.net

Cheers, Falcon 1

[wilhelm]

In your first pic you have one troep wearing the Kevlar helmet, whilst the other is holding an R1. To the best of my knowledge and memory, by the time the new helmet was issued the R4 was the service rifle, with the R1 held in reserve.

[Rudolph]

Nice one, Falcon! :)

[prion]

Nice work Falcon 1.

But not to be a stickler. About the R1 sniper you have shown us. According to this site:

http://www.saaaca.org.za/links/SIG/fal/fal.htm

the SADF R1 sniper uses a Kahles ZF69 6x42 scope that looks/and is like this scope on a Steyr SSG69:



And on a separate note. The R1 Sniper FTR that is mentioned in the site above I believe is this one:

[Rudolph]

SA Army ups Milan holding (http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1629&Itemid=362)
Written by Leon Engelbrecht
Thursday, 09 April 2009



The South African Army has ordered a further 13 Milan ADT firing posts and four simulators under a Project Kingfisher contract worth €10.7 million (about R129.3 million at current exchange rates).

The SA Army and Special Forces ordered about 30 of the antitank guided missile (ATGM) launchers and some simulators I December 2006 at a cost of R167.4 million. The first of these have been deployed at the SA Army Infantry School, to 1 Parachute Battalion and to the Special Forces Brigade. It will also be issued to some motorized infantry units.

Milan-maker MBDA says the new order was awarded on 11 March. “The contract includes the retrofitting of 13 MILAN ADT guidance units with integrated thermal imagers and the supply of 13 further MILAN ADT firing posts and four simulators,” the company says in a statement.

Much of the work will be done by local MBDA partner, Fulcrum Defence Systems.

South Africa is the first export customer for the MILAN ADT. The first batch of firing posts was delivered to South Africa at the beginning of 2008. “With operational evaluation having met with the customer's full satisfaction, MBDA has now concluded another contract for MILAN ADT,” the company says.

SA Army doctrine provide for six of these weapons in the antitank platoon of the infantry battalion.

[nano100]

Just a few dots on the line-a memory of 29 yrs back;

1. The SADF was superb towards it's troops. Gen Viljoen treated his troops well of all colours and races - they honoured him as we the white soldiers did.
2. Longest deployment for 13 months in the activity zones.
3. The longest behind the friendly base out in the bush (Angola) was precisely 72 x days - one pair of boots/socks/pants/shirt - thrown away afterwards as it was no use anymore. No underpants as the sand will sheave all to nothing - weared just a loose PT jogger.
3. Closest combat buddy ("gat gabba") was a black man ( Simon ) - ex 32 Batt. ( funny but yes - usually other way around ) and was my pal - we looked towards each other as a blood brothers and he teached us the final small details of the bush and war from his eyes as seen.
4. There were 2 x times that we actually was in the 101/102 Batt camps and slept between them - It was important to be able to live according their ways and methods even eating the meat that was just boiled with no spices - just a grey typo meat and "pap" - porridge.
5. Working with him and be able to communicate on their level teached me valuable lessons iro ways of thinking, physchological understandings etc.
6. I had no bad feelings iro the black soldier, nor their ways - you just must make the effort to understand and be willing to adapt in their circumstances of living - then they opened up their world to you.
7. Those trained by the SADF was good soldiers and I honour them.
8. The original chest webbing in the late 70's and start of the 80's was made in Sweden while they actually had an embargo - btw the triangular tinned ham / meats supplied to Swapo by Sweden was a valuable eating item when roaming between them - a good source of protein. Tx.
8. The original "snotneus" - 40 mm granade launcher - was supplied by USA - was a good tool although the "Save & Fire" worked the other way around to what we was used to.
9. Ops Protea supplied so much weaponry that the SADF actually could supply Unita.
10. So much RPG 7's was taken that the whole Army was supplied and issued for combat and training with a heap of RPG's for a few years potted up.
11. The SADF started with the RPG - anti personal projectile - a slim form.
12. Mostly on a bush tour you got 3 x weeks of rat's which was reduced by any individual to what he wanted/liked/could fit with the ammo/water and rest of kit pending on the time schedule and typo operation.
13. I remember that I always took ± 21 liters of water - 4 x 2 liter, 8 x std bottle issues and behind the backpack a 3 x 81 mortar casement full and the caps sealed with plastic wrapping around the cap screw thread.
14. I weighed about 68 - 72 kg's (still 75 -78 kg's though - lol ) but fully laden and although never actually weighed, the total weight for long range amounted to ± 75 -80 kg's. It was a 15 min walk, then rest a minute, 15 min, rest a minute story - killing at the end of the day.
15. The longest trek involved ± 400 - 520 km in 10 days by SF's. It was murdering but was done. Maybe more - some guys with better memory vcan comment.
16. Minimum kit and max fire power was the name of the game.
17. From the Black soldiers ( Portugese speaking ) and the Bushmen we learned the fine art of living of the land - and of course the Sweden protein supplied - lol. No offense towards you guys.
18. The Bushmen was 2 x types - the Vasquela and the Baraquena ( help me here correctly with the facts please ) One was from Angola and the other was SWA. The one was darker and longer and the other was smaller and more lighter / yellow tint. Both was good but the Portugese Bushman had a greater heart into the war effort due to their roots.
19. The 32Bat and Koevoet black soldiers was mostly ( help me again iro Koevoet ) - ex ter's.
20. My appreciation for the Koevoet guys - they had their own methods iro the hunting - mostly with their Caspirs circling the enemy and then they just walked upright (mostly) into the fight - they scared the tits out of the ter's and was an important role player in all successes.
21. While the SADF had a strict doctrine about minesweeping the roads everyday, the Koevoet just stormed past with their Caspirs - big frustration especially if you were transported via the Buffels from Ondang's towards Angola.
22. Why the SADF never adopted the Caspir's - Hit me with a stick - so much better in; getting in, kit transport, safety iro mining, especially the double cheese mine laying techniques and firing from it with a roof mounted double LMG as std ( one slower ) and less injuries in hitting mines.
23. Our vechiles mostly originated from German influences; Buffel = Unimog, Caspir = Mercedes engines and diff's, Ratel = Bushing engines, ZF gearboxes, diffs - some diff's I think was from MAN. SAMIL Trucks = Magirus Deutz with ZF diff's and gearboxes. Except the BUFFELS which I personally hated, - vechiles was well built, strong and suitable for the conditions.
The Centurions was fitted with V12 Rolls Royce motors - gulping something like 2 Liter/km. The Buffels had an exceptionally long range though - 800 km with a water tank of 200 liters for 11 x men, driver included.
24. The Ratel was a bit akward - the exit was at the sides and looking in battle, the troops had to get out in fire on the sides - not a good idea but mostly dropped before hitting heavy fire - (61 MEG - help me here - my observations iro of you guys - I felt always sorry for you guys and admired your guts to get out of those doors in combat ).
22. The Ratel had a rear small door but the "hallway" from the troop space to the rear door was too small to allow enough space if they weared combat kit.
23. One of the successes of OPS Protea was the stealth impact, not moving along the normal routes and gathering the combat groups lower to Alpha line and moving down with the sandy road to the East ( think it was called Willie se Pad ).
24. Also the Ratel 90's was the surprise element and played a key element in knocking the T 34/62s and giving fire power to the troops - the big advantage was the height, the 90's could "see" the low and behind the bush tanks quickly, aim accurately and fire before they (T32/62's) could "see" the Ratel 90's. The new HE ammo helped alot. - Only the observations among us.
The Ratel 20's had 20 mm aeronatical gun, laid on it's back and gave some "feeding" problems - ( 61MEG - you guys can comment here more - one gunner just told me that he had that trouble, maybe isolated - Xangongo)
25. The 23 double and 19 mm triple barrel AAA was std in Angola and one of the first to be knocked out - the seat to the left controlled the swing, brake etc, the seat behind the "trigger" & elevation.
26. Gunships were Alouettes fitted with 20 mm cannons and fired by aiming over the barrel - all troops had to wear Day Glow on their hats or hair or on their body - otherwise shot at as in battle everything goes so fast that it is difficult to identify friend from foe - especially if the SADF weared camo.
27. The Puma's was called the "motherships" - only referenced to as a name, as they took you back "home".
28. Most flyiing by choppers was done at "skimming" the tree tops.
29. Those chopper pilots, I remember the most - very loyal and always doiing the extra mile - they were a great lot and had a hell of a bar at Ondang's
30. Cassinga - the last Puma Pilot did a full flying circle in the face of Fapla/Cuban forces to make sure that every single Para was extracted - he deserved that Bravery Medal.
31. The 81/82 Para operations into the Swapo bases was done by a single company - 100 -110 men at the most getting out of Puma's, some hanging between the trees with their blades just missing the tops. 50 men inside, 50 men as "stopper groups" - Smallest base was something of 280 ters's and largest amounted to ± 450 ter's - killing rate after the 7 - 10 x day "hakkejag" - tracking and persueing - operations amounted to a success rate of 70 - 85 %. They fought them through their lines, through the trenches and getting them out of the underground bunkers.

And to all Romeo Victor and Zulu Fighting Groups and all other - You were the best.

[Schad]

Wrt 61 and Ratels.

Dismounting was easy - doors worked on hydraulic rams operated by the driver - these popped and you dismounted from behind the "wings" the doors created when open.

You got to practice a lot - main issue was the section leader dismounting from the turret.

The passage to the rear door was normally filled with ammo - I loaded about 240 81mm mortar bombs in mine.

No issues on reliability of cannon or the vehicle themselves that I can recall - stalparade was always a bitch and bombing up the vehicles before operations could take all night.

[nano100]

I cannot recall clearly - but I think you guys of 1 SAI and 1 SSB had different stickers which you attached to every damn place you knocked and "friendly" reminded that you can and are able to hit again.

Although 61 Meg - it differed - the one was only a lightning and the other was a hand about the lightning strike logo.

Can you clarify more clearly plse.

And also why was there a difference seeing it as a single combat fighting unit ?

And in Ops Hooper / Modular - one of the 32 Buf. Ratels 20 mm actually "parked" behind either a T32/64 tank and continued firing until goiing through the turret and exploding - they had no other option as a Ratel 90 anti tank was not available and rather being cornered and knocked they did the unexpected.

There is no more a hero in the one unit than the other - I firmly believe that each one serving in the Angolan war was a special person and that include from the Maintenance , Tiffy, Cooks, Intelligence, Signal Corps / Units down to the combat troops. I have respect for them all. Without each other there would have been no victories or the establishment of the best army in the world of modern warfare. But that build-up can be contributed to Botha & Viljoen - the other leaders and most of the generals were yellow pik, pik, pik political hand eating chickens.

[playtym]

[sepia]

Oh s_h_i_t!South Africa copy weapon Z88 copy Berretta 92SF,M79 GL Snotneus copy M79 US,R4/R5 copy Galil.:bash:

[playtym]

Oh s_h_i_t!South Africa copy weapon Z88 copy Berretta 92SF,M79 GL Snotneus copy M79 US,R4/R5 copy Galil.:bash:

Oh s_h_i_t! :roll:

By "copy" do you mean "licence produced," or simply, "purchased"? :cantbeli:

[nano100]

Playtym

Yes - what we could not buy, we copied and made it better / adapted to our style.
There was a close relationship in military with the Israeli's - the German's helped even in the design of the Ratel.

The "Rooikat" was initiated by the Technical Command Group - that was what they actually wanted but DENEL was in built - up stage with the Ratel.

Denel initiated different varients of the "buffel" for testing - the Buffel wit 10 mm panzer steel ( too heavy) , the Samil 20 "Buffel ( seen a pic somewhere ) and another varient - but why the SADF never adopted the Caspir Turbo I will not know - hit me with a stick on that one - because it was the best designed troop carrier for anti-landmine and it did not flip with a double cheese mine or a British Mk IV - one of the most - note most - comon mines used by Fapla / Swapo.

At one stage they were onto the Ratel "log" vechile which was a 8 x wheeler logistic vechile only to carry all logistics for long range ops's. Fuel, ammo, food, medical etc to be more "independent" of logistic routing that can slow down the fast moving combat groups.

And by the way - there ain't no Azania and never will be. D-day games in it's initiation stage.

[Schad]

Oh s_h_i_t!South Africa copy weapon Z88 copy Berretta 92SF,M79 GL Snotneus copy M79 US,R4/R5 copy Galil.:bash:

Missing the...

88mm rocket launcher
89mm Lrac
Bren in 7.62mm
Browning 1919 in 7.62mm

[Rudolph]

Oh s_h_i_t! :roll:

By "copy" do you mean "licence produced," or simply, "purchased"? :cantbeli:

Or sometimes they accidently left crates for us to find... I heard about that time the air force picked up some nice missiles that way! lol.

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

Not SADF, but South African - I didn't want to open a new thread just for these.

[Rudolph]

^Some high-quality pics!

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

[/URL] (http://img27.imageshack.us/my.php?image=csh2rooivalk1sv8.jpg) (http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=csh2rooivalk4dj1.jpg) (http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=csh2rooivalk6es0.jpg) (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=csh2rooivalk11bp7.jpg) (http://img26.imageshack.us/my.php?image=csh2rooivalk7gu6.jpg) (http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=csh2rooivalk15op5.jpg) (http://img8.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img191246612sj5wo1.jpg) (http://img6.imageshack.us/my.php?image=csh2rooivalk17uk8.jpg) (http://img113.imageshack.us/my.php?image=csh2rooivalk7gu6.jpg) (http://img21.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img191246631178420504ky.jpg) (http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img191246661178420504ot.jpg) (http://img24.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1912466131178420504l.jpg) (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgid6632038291.jpg) (http://img27.imageshack.us/my.php?image=original2299441.jpg) (http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=original2328990.jpg) [URL="http://img410.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rooivalk2008.jpg"]

[playtym]

[Maktab]

Awesome pics, playtym. This one's particularly interesting though, if I'm not mistaken that's the prototype Rogue RWS installation, isn't it?

[GETSOME]

Sweet,thanks Playtym .p-)

[playtym]

Awesome pics, playtym. This one's particularly interesting though, if I'm not mistaken that's the prototype Rogue RWS installation, isn't it?

Yes, it is. I've just posted a bunch of pics in the Rougue CIWS (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=154492) thread.

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

OK, gents, here's something interesting for you. Has anyone ever seen this before?




I found it here. (http://williewerkie.com/?m=20080424)

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

[playtym]

[wilhelm]

Great pics Playtym, especially the AC200 ones.

Where is that truck graveyard situated, and are those pics recent?

[playtym]

Where is that truck graveyard situated, and are those pics recent?

The bloke who took them is going to send me the coordinates. I'll find out how old the pics are when I chat to him. He apparently has more pictures, which he said he'd let me have.

[prion]

I found it here. (http://williewerkie.com/?m=20080424)


If that is the place I am thinking of , then I have been there numerous times.


25 34' 45.63" S
28 16' 13.09" E

[Ironsight06]

OK, gents, here's something interesting for you. Has anyone ever seen this before?




I found it here. (http://williewerkie.com/?m=20080424)
Looks like a Ratel based scout vehicle.

Excellent pics Playtym. woot

[prion]

Looks like a Ratel based scout vehicle.

Excellent pics Playtym. woot

Yes it looks like a shortened Ratel log chassis. But I just do not get the Saracen radiator grill.

[wilhelm]

Yes it looks like a shortened Ratel log chassis. But I just do not get the Saracen radiator grill.

That is a fascinating picture.

It certainly looks like an extended 8X8 Ratel with Saracen type radiator. The driver position sited rearwards with the front radiator ala Saracen obviously indicates a front mounted engine. I wonder if this was not a prototype concept-proving vehicle, using existing components, that was perhaps part of the original plan to replace the Ratel with an 8X8 ICV? There seem to be at least 5 or 6 different mock-ups and/or prototype vehicles that were constructed as part of this programme, including the Rooikat based 8X8 now at the School of Armour museum.

I've never heard anything about this. Is Blastmaster still around? Perhaps he may know something.

Military vehicle development in South Africa is an absolutely fascinating subject. Is this vehicle park open to the public? Any further pictures of this vehicle would most certainly be welcome.

[drevil5000]

Queens College Boys High School cadets. Trooping the colour parade for the schools 151st birthday weekend.


http://www.liveleak.com/e/9c2_1240681824

[prion]

Found this article today. Thought it is relevant to the present state of the SANDF UAV usage.



Global UAV sales boom, but South Africa's UAV sector flounders

Published 27 March 2009
South Africa was among the world's leaders in designing and manufacturing UAVs; UAVs are the most dynamic segment growth sector in the global aerospace industry; South Africa could have benefited from the growing interest in UAVs, lack of investment in R&D and in finished products may cause South Africa to abdicate the UAV lead it once held
UAVs are hot -- not only above the battlefield, but as a business. Engineering News, for example, has published a series of stories on South African UAV programs, projects, and proposals. These have covered the products and projects of Advanced Technologies & Engineering (ATE), Denel Dynamics, and the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR). The reason for the magazine coverage of South Africa is that South Africa has been a world leader in UAVs, and UAVs are becoming very important, both technologically and as a business sector, within the aerospace industry.
Keith Campbell writes (http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/wheels-within-wheels-2009-03-27) that U.S. aerospace and defense market analysis company Teal Group recently forecast that the global UAV market will be worth more than $62-billion over the next ten years. The report states that UAVs are the most dynamic segment growth sector in the global aerospace industry. Currently, total world expenditure on UAVs amounts to $4.4 billion a year, and this should reach an annual figure of $8.7 billion after ten years. In addition, billions of dollars more is being, and will be, spent on payloads for UAVs.
During the U.S. FY2009, worldwide expenditure on UAV payloads exceeded $2 billion, and Teal expects this spending to rise to $5 billion in U.S. FY2018. These payloads include command, control, communications, computer and intelligence systems; electro-optical/infrared sensors; electronic warfare systems; signals intelligence systems; chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear sensors; and synthetic aperture radars.
Respected British aerospace journal Flight International currently lists 59 companies worldwide which manufacture UAVs, including ATE and Denel (the CSIR is not a UAV manufacturer; it only produces a handful or less of each of its designs, and they are all for research purposes, not for series production).
Campbell correctly notes that UAVs are big business. They are also cutting-edge technology, especially with regard to autonomous control systems, both hardware and software. At the very top end, both the United States and the United Kingdom are known to be working on tailless blended wing body (BWB) stealth UAVs, which also involve leading-edge airframe and materials technology, design, and manufacture.
UAVs are also aircraft that South Africa has the financial resources and technological capability to totally design and manufacture on its own. South Africa has successfully exported UAVs. There is a problem, though: While five years ago one could have confidently asserted that South Africa was a world-leader in UAVs, along with the United States and Israel, today the country is grave danger of losing that status. Huge amounts of money are being poured into UAVs by the United States, the United Kingdom, Israel, and many others. There are now, or now under development, nano-, micro-, and mini-UAVs (issued to infantry companies, even platoons, and often hand-launched), battalion-level tactical UAVs (like ATE's Vulture, designed to provide observation for field artillery units), brigade-level tactical UAVs (Denel's Seeker would fit here), medium altitude long-endurance (Male) UAVs (for divisions, corps, and armies) and high altitude long-endurance (Hale) UAVs (strategic systems, exemplified by the extremely expensive US Global Hawk). There are fixed-wing and rotary-wing designs, and ducted fan designs that look just like flying saucers. And there are Unmanned Combat Air Vehicles (UCAVs), of which the best known is General Atomics' MQ-9 Reaper (previously called the Predator B).
Ironically, South Africa was one of the first countries to develop a stealth UAV design, codenamed Flowchart, but it seems never to have progressed beyond the stage of a wind tunnel model. It was not, however a tailless BWB design. Nor was Denel's subsequent stealth UAV/UCAV design, designated Seraph.
At the small end off the UAV scale, ATE has developed the hand-launched Kiwit mini-UAV, which has not yet gained any customers (but it was only unveiled last year). Its Vulture system is now being delivered to the South African Army. Denel Dynamics is marketing the latest version of its Seeker family, the Seeker 400, which represents a significant improvement over the Seeker II.
Top of the range in South Africa is Denel's Bateleur Male UAV -- announced in 2003, it has still not progressed past the mock-up, and the company is hoping that Brazil will turn the project into reality by investing in it, just as they have invested in Denel's A-Darter missile. Brazil, though, is also talking to the Israelis about cooperating on a Male UAV program. The CSIR is seeking to help the local industry keep up with the latest international trends -- for example with its Sekwa BWB (although it has upturned wing tips) UAV, to develop local expertise in BWB flight control algorithms.
Despite all the work done on UAVs in South Africa, the South African National Defense Force (SANDF) only operates the original Seeker system -- which can now be regarded as obsolete -- and the Vulture. The Kiwit, Seeker 400, and Bateleur would all be of enormous value to the SANDF, to support its peacekeeping deployments, and patrol the country's borders and maritime frontiers. None has been ordered by the SANDF, though, nor is there any sign they will be (Denel is very hopeful for a foreign contract for the Seeker 400, as was the one achieved with the Seeker II).
Nor is there any large-scale local UAV research and development (R&D) program to further develop and promote local capabilities. There are only small projects. Critical mass is lacking. Through lack of investment in both R&D and in finished products, South Africa is abdicating the lead it once held, in a booming high-tech sector it could successfully compete in, globally. "As the Americans say," Campbell concludes, "go figure."


http://hsdailywire.com/single.php?id=7669

[HammockWarrior]

OK, gents, here's something interesting for you. Has anyone ever seen this before?




I found it here. (http://williewerkie.com/?m=20080424)

I don't know what model it is, but its the standard apc used by the UN peacekeepers at the District 9 Alien Internment camp outside of Johannesburg.

Whatever it originally was - Its now a prop in the new Peter Jackson Movie "District 9" - http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/30/district-9-teaser-trailer/
"The film depicts a fictional world where extraterrestrials have become refugees in South Africa. Wikus (Sharlto Copley) is a Multi-National United agent who becomes infected by alien biotechnology. He must go on the run from the oppressive government into District 9, a internment camp where “non-humans” have been forced to live since landing on Earth nearly 30 years ago."

[playtym]

[curious george]

Hi guys,1st post & love this thread:
a question relating to my national service days when I was based in Rundu '86/7 at 6 maintenance unit.During that time (+/-end of late Modular/Hooper) I returned back to base from a log run & in our transport park we had the following vehicles temporarily parked there.
(1)Ratel command:with maps & tank shell casings,would these have been from the "1st SADF tank kills since WW2"?unit?
(2)g5: under roof/cover with split barrel-prem detonation in barrel & flown back to the states, &
(3)an interesting MAN 8 x8 flatbed cargo truck-painted dark green.
Was this MAN being evaluated by the army?which unit did it belong to,etc?any info/pics would be appreciated. (my photos did nor "klaar out" with me unfortunately),
thx guys.

[wilhelm]

(3)an interesting MAN 8 x8 flatbed cargo truck-painted dark green.
Was this MAN being evaluated by the army?which unit did it belong to,etc?any info/pics would be appreciated. (my photos did nor "klaar out" with me unfortunately),
thx guys.

If all the camera's and photo's confiscated were not destroyed, all I can say is that there is an absolute treasure chest sitting somewhere...p-)

Seriously, the only 8X8 MAN vehicles I'm aware of were the mobile bridging equipment obtained, as well as the rumour of the large 8X8 trucks that would have transported the ballistic missiles then being developed. I think this last vehicle went under the nickname "Beestrok" or "Lorry Zonder Naam" from what I can gather. I assume it to be a MAN.

[sgtoutback]

Any idea what kind of vest these are both the niemoller looking one and the more m83 type? and are they trials gear or on more widespread issue

[exT70]

Any idea what kind of vest these are both the niemoller looking one and the more m83 type? and are they trials gear or on more widespread issue

Looks like the idiot idea to replace the Pat83.
One of my pet hate projects.
Due to the fact that the Pat83 battlejacket is apparently not Bat friendly, the Inf Formation want to replace the Pat 83 with a Belt rig type webbing. Do a disservice to all the Inf Bns to please 1Bn of paras. Guess whose in charge?
OK, to be honest, and truthful, the rest of the excuse is that the current battlejacket does not work well enough with a big bag (nor does a belt rig) and that the battlejacket is not flexible enough (change the Pat83 to molle type flex system).

The "members" wearing the rigs in the pics looks like the Int Regt (Snuffel Tiffs) wannabe reconnaissance lot. Everybody wants to be a Spes something. Where else would you find a LtCol playing soldier-soldier. Maybe they read somewhere in a pictoral novelette that a commander must lead from the front. And that "real men" don't wear head protection as per standing order.
If I see a senior officer carrying a MGL, it means the commander is not commanding, or that we are in very very deep sh!t indeed, thus basically both.

[sgtoutback]

thank you very much for the full reply. exT70 indeed I hadnt spotted the rank of the guys in the pics

[GETSOME]

Looks like the idiot idea to replace the Pat83.
One of my pet hate projects.
Due to the fact that the Pat83 battlejacket is apparently not Bat friendly, the Inf Formation want to replace the Pat 83 with a Belt rig type webbing. Do a disservice to all the Inf Bns to please 1Bn of paras. Guess whose in charge?
OK, to be honest, and truthful, the rest of the excuse is that the current battlejacket does not work well enough with a big bag (nor does a belt rig) and that the battlejacket is not flexible enough (change the Pat83 to molle type flex system).

The "members" wearing the rigs in the pics looks like the Int Regt (Snuffel Tiffs) wannabe reconnaissance lot. Everybody wants to be a Spes something. Where else would you find a LtCol playing soldier-soldier. Maybe they read somewhere in a pictoral novelette that a commander must lead from the front. And that "real men" don't wear head protection as per standing order.
If I see a senior officer carrying a MGL, it means the commander is not commanding, or that we are in very very deep sh!t indeed, thus basically both.
X2
Its all a ball of ****.:roll:

[prion]

Here is some more of that mystery APC. As far as I can tell it is made from two Saracens.

Sorry , only had my phone with me.





Looks like Saracen rear:



And front engined:




As far as I could gather , It was apparently built by a farmer and son from Potgietersrus.

[2SAI Desert Rat]

Don't forget Wits Rifles, which is the leading Highland unit at the moment, based in Germiston. They wear trews and I believe the only unit to do so. They are currently active and have a very proud heritage.

[Dwelm]

Here is some more of that mystery APC. As far as I can tell it is made from two Saracens.

As far as I could gather , It was apparently built by a farmer and son from Potgietersrus.
where did u take the pics ?

[HammockWarrior]

Here is some more of that mystery APC. As far as I can tell it is made from two Saracens.

As far as I could gather , It was apparently built by a farmer and son from Potgietersrus.

Like I said earlier. Its a movie prop for District 9. They used a lot of SA talent to build the sets and props for the movie. (Anyone want to bet that the troops will be carrying CR-21's?) One of my wife's clients is a carpenter who ended up building the inside of the UFO for them.

[marius72za]

Multicam and SANDF camo

[marius72za]

[YANKEEBOBB]

[Dwelm]

nice I like the running troopie one, but I would just like to ask where can I find pics of weapons by South African arms companies. In of not in SANDF don't matter just want to show someone SA inventions

[AtK]

Is there any detail on this photo - specifically regarding the three officers?

[AtK]

Multicam and SANDF camo



Explain the different camo patterns please

[AtK]

nice I like the running troopie one, but I would just like to ask where can I find pics of weapons by South African arms companies. In of not in SANDF don't matter just want to show someone SA inventions


Any image search should give sufficient results.

[Dwelm]

Explain the different camo patterns please
mmm the one does not look like SANDF. Or I have just not seen that one yet

[Dwelm]

Any image search should give sufficient results.
The big prob is I am not very tuned up to the names of the weapons and companies.
:oops:

[soutikghosh]

What is the name of this mortar ? Is this any way related to TAMPELA 120mm Mortar.

[YANKEEBOBB]

Is there any detail on this photo - specifically regarding the three officers?

Found it a while back, this is the only info I saved with it;

Grenade attack during a funeral for an Inkatha Freedom Party member FEB 94

[AtK]

The big prob is I am not very tuned up to the names of the weapons and companies.
:oops:

Or scroll through this thread - it will give you enough info.

[AtK]

Found it a while back, this is the only info I saved with it;

Grenade attack during a funeral for an Inkatha Freedom Party member FEB 94

Thanks, I would really like to ID the officer in the front wearing 1 SAI Bn affiliation dress.

[GETSOME]

South African Special Forces League para wings.

[blackshirt]

Ermmm not a very PC question, but are there still white members of the SANDF and if so are they just senior NCO's and Officers left over from Pre 94 or do any youngsters join?

[Dwelm]

young white men still join but not in the amount the army would like them to, it has gone so bad that they target former SADF members to join to boost the white pop I have also been invited to a open day that targets white men, but I am looking at the royal marines so never went. I know a lot of white SANDF members but all of them are pre '94/95.

[wilhelm]

What is the name of this mortar ? Is this any way related to TAMPELA 120mm Mortar.

Post number 1973 earlier on in this thread, over here:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64954&page=132

Gives a very basic description. It is the 120mm M-5.

[prion]

Took these this morning.


109 - They are really whisper quiet compared to the Oryx

[AtK]

Cool photo's. Always proud to see them fly.
Btw - Ratel IFV celebrates 35 years of service to the RSA this year. Semething else to be proud of.

[Snake Doctor]

Took these the other day. Was good fun - except putting out the fires afterwards... :roll:

[Snake Doctor]

[AtK]

What unit is this?

[exT70]

Ermmm not a very PC question, but are there still white members of the SANDF and if so are they just senior NCO's and Officers left over from Pre 94 or do any youngsters join?
Yes, there are still a fair number left. Mostly in senior and technical positions. At least with the global fin troubles the loss rate of technical pers will hopefully slow down. Quite a number of senior cmd staff still left.
New "white" members still join, but the number are low and a concern as the jnr ranks are not racially representative any more.

[mlfunction]

I HATE POSES!!!

[prion]

I HATE POSES!!!




Thanks for the post. But I'm not too sure about the first pic in this quote.

Regarding the last two pics - I know some takies use the Browning HP , but I was under the impression that the SANDF uses the Z88 or even the old STAR.

[playtym]

Thanks for the post. But I'm not too sure about the first pic in this quote.

Oh hell no - it's not even close - in fact I call "Airsoft" on that picture!









Regarding the last two pics - I know some takies use the Browning HP , but I was under the impression that the SANDF uses the Z88 or even the old STAR.

There are plenty of pics out there of the Recces using the Hi-Power.

The Takkies have embraced the HK goodness and carry USP's now.

[Dwelm]

Here is some more of that mystery APC. As far as I can tell it is made from two Saracens.

Sorry , only had my phone with me.





Looks like Saracen rear:



And front engined:




As far as I could gather , It was apparently built by a farmer and son from Potgietersrus.
Is this not from the new movie of aliens landing in RSA ?
I have it ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfem7wKeNaU&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjihaK7HfGs&feature=related

[prion]

Is this not from the new movie of aliens landing in RSA ?

Yes it is - look earlier in this thread.

[BlackHigh]

nice pics :)

my father was in the sandf in the bad old times too

[GETSOME]

nice pics :)

my father was in the sandf in the bad old times too
You mean the SADF,in THE good old days?p-)

[BlackHigh]

You mean the SADF,in THE good old days?p-)

yeah the sadf, no its the sandf

good old times? apartheid... ring any bells? or are you racist? :|

my father was throwen out of the army and have gone through many repression's becouse he loved a black woman (my mother) he self was white, then in 1981 they moved to germany becouse they don't wannted this bull**** regime anymore

[AtK]

yeah the sadf, no its the sandf

good old times? apartheid... ring any bells? or are you racist? :|

my father was throwen out of the army and have gone through many repression's becouse he loved a black woman (my mother) he self was white, then in 1981 they moved to germany becouse they don't wannted this bull**** regime anymore


And we don't want these bull**** comments anymore.

[blackshirt]

This isnt the right arena to discuss politics lads,.... lets just stick to the pics, of both the SADF and the SANDF.

[GETSOME]

You mean the SADF,in THE good old days?p-)
Sheee, you should take that stick outta your arse and relax.
I was taking about being in the army,i didnt mention any thing about racism ,you ****ing clown.
:bash:
And its SADF or SANDF capital letters.

[BlackHigh]

then why ****ing talk about good ****ing days in the worts time of the countrys history, but never damn mind :roll:

[playtym]

then why ****ing talk about good ****ing days in the worts time of the countrys history, but never damn mind :roll:




Very interesting! Do you have any more info on which SADF/SANDF troops use/d the M-16?

[drevil5000]

yeah the sadf, no its the sandf

good old times? apartheid... ring any bells? or are you racist? :|

my father was throwen out of the army and have gone through many repression's becouse he loved a black woman (my mother) he self was white, then in 1981 they moved to germany becouse they don't wannted this bull**** regime anymore

When we refer to the good old days we are referring to the days when we had a well trained disciplined army and competent people in charge of the country.

[drevil5000]

Very interesting! Do you have any more info on which SADF/SANDF troops use/d the M-16?

I dont think the soldiers in his first pic were south african.

[AtK]

25 Year Anniversary Coin - 4 SAI Bn / 62 Mech Bn Gp

[playtym]

I dont think the soldiers in his first pic were south african.

Definitely not. :)


Might I suggest to BlackHigh, should he return to this thread, that he take his political viewpoints to the Politcal Discussions and Rants (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12) forum and instead concentrate on posting SADF/SANDF pictures in this one.

And when I say "concentrate" I also mean concentrate on what is being posted, rather than just posting up any old irrelevant picture that he comes across.

Thank you.

[Dwelm]

I found this vid but have not seen it on this Thread. If it has been put on, my bad

61 MECH BN , SOUTH AFRICAN DEFENCE FORCE, LAST PARADE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8aOknEyZIA

Sad to see vids like this one

[BlackHigh]

Very interesting! Do you have any more info on which SADF/SANDF troops use/d the M-16?


i think they are from the SADF, i "can't" give any proof or anything but rumours and tips are ther that M-16's were used in small numbers, surly from israel which supported the apartheid, maybe even from usa or from both...

[Tosk]

Those are clearly not SADF nor SANDF, they´re americans, from West Point.

Check the link (original photo was hotlinked):

http://www.west-point.org/family/mem2001/sand/ (http://www.west-point.org/family/mem2001/sand/)

Check link "04" at the bottom of the page.

AFAIK SA never used M-16 or that type of camo (woodland), certainly not suitable for South African terrain.

[vor033]

I found these SANDF pics and thought i would post them,i hope they are nor reposts.

All 3 show the SANDF in the Eastern Congo

[Dwelm]

Great pics, please do add more

[vor033]

SANDF Photos - Sorry no captions, but Photos show the SANDF on operations in the Congo, Darfur,Burundi and the Congo - The SANDF on exercise and in base areas.








































(http://s602.photobucket.com/albums/tt104/vor033/SANDF/?action=view&current=P1060607.jpg)

[vor033]

SANDF Photos - Sorry no captions, but Photos show the SANDF on operations in the Congo, Darfur,Burundi and the Congo - The SANDF on exercise and in base areas.





















The New SANDF Air Assault Badge - Not Sure if this has been adopted ??

[vor033]

SANDF Photos - Sorry no captions, but Photos show the SANDF on operations in the Congo, Darfur,Burundi and the Congo - The SANDF on exercise and in base areas.

[vor033]

SANDF Photos - Sorry no captions, but Photos show the SANDF on operations in the Congo, Darfur,Burundi and the Congo - The SANDF on exercise and in base areas.

Last few Photos for today

[GETSOME]

^^^^
Great pics ,thanks for posting,more,more please.p-)

[vor033]

SANDF Photos - Sorry no captions, but Photos show the SANDF on operations on exercise and in base areas.

[vor033]

SANDF Photos - Sorry no captions, but Photos show the SANDF on operations on exercise and in base areas.

[Dwelm]

lol nice one
Do you know the story behind Goat ?
if there is one ?

[vor033]

This is one of my Favorite Photos

[vor033]

SANDF Photos - Sorry no captions, but Photos show the SANDF on operations on exercise and in base areas.

[vor033]

SANDF Photos - Sorry no captions, but Photos show the SANDF on operations on exercise and in base areas.

[vor033]

lol nice one
Do you know the story behind Goat ?
if there is one ?


I was told that during a Parade for visiting Senior Officer in Burundi a heard of Goats wandered into the Parade area, and justs stood in front of the soldiers eating the grass and having a look around :)

[Dwelm]

LoL, Dam all the pics make me wish I did go to enlist but I decided to GO to UK to join. hope for the best :\

[drevil5000]

http://www.youtube.com/v/lP8efEF_5Ug

Its a promo video but shows some of the armoured vehicles produced by South Africa.

[Schmeiser]

Nice pictures

[Ency]

Nice pics, thank you very much!

[bousquet123]

Sorry for the thread hi-jack, but does anybody know where I can buy one of these for my collection?


HI
i've several RECCE badges (as well as 32nd BAT) in my collection includind an operator badge (numbered) and a copy one in silver (stamped copy on the reverse) have a look on y website (type "RHODESIAN.RECCES" on GOOGLE and you'll find) or ask me for more photos

Best Regards

Didier

[AtK]

One seriously bored lt-col

[prion]

One seriously bored lt-col

You would be too if you had to drink Pepsi in Castle Corner.:)

[2SAI Desert Rat]

Brings tears to the eyes. Still the best army in the world

[AtK]

Brings tears to the eyes. Still the best army in the world

I suppose that you are referring to the pre-1994 organisation? After yesterdays bull**** I am more certain than ever that we are never turning this ship ever again.

[2SAI Desert Rat]

Yes it is a disgrace but that was only a handful of people (I wonder how many were rent-a-crowd) and at least it was dealt with quickly by the minister which should make anyone else think twice.
As regards post 94, well my old regiment Wits/Delarey held the highest score ever achieved during training (this was in 1976 and I was there) and was apparantly recently broken by the same regiment who are now mainly black. So there is still hope. Also our troops are held in high regard by the commanding general of the UN forces based up in Darfur and other African countries.

[wilhelm]

I count 9 or 10 here..... Olifant Mk2's. What is the total to be procured?
Anybody know the specs of the Mk2 over the Mk1b? I do know it has more power, but is it heavier? I take it the indigineous 120mm cannon is now a dead project, at least for the Olifant?

[AtK]

How many tanks in a squadron? 11 plus spare = 12. (?) Maybe more.

[exT70]

I count 9 or 10 here..... Olifant Mk2's. What is the total to be procured?
Anybody know the specs of the Mk2 over the Mk1b? I do know it has more power, but is it heavier? I take it the indigineous 120mm cannon is now a dead project, at least for the Olifant?
Question is impossible to answer.
Mk1B was never produced, so no standard spec for the Mk1B, so no comparison. Can try to use some of the conflicting specs mentioned, but which one.
The "Mk1B's" I was on (2)(or might have been the same one at Bloem and CTC) was a base Mk1A with upgraded engine and uparmoured package.(can't remember suspension) Same Mk1A FCS and insides. Did however test upgraded FCS computer with windsensor etc at CTC in 1991. Was similar to one on Rooikat at the time.
Mk2's I've been on has new engine, suspension, thermals, composite armour, independant cmdrs sight (don't know if this is on production model) etc. My best guess is therefor that the current Mk2 is somewhere between the Mk1B and the previous proposed Mk2 (which had the all-new turret etc).

[exT70]

How many tanks in a squadron? 11 plus spare = 12. (?) Maybe more.
12
3x3
1xOC
1x2IC
1xSpare

[sa_bushwar]

Photos of yesterday's open day.

For more on the South African Bushwar, visit my websites at:

www.geocities.com/sa_bushwar (closing 26 October 2009)

New Site: http://sites.google.com/sites/sabushwarsite

[Maktab]

Some nice pics there. I see you got a photo of the Enhanced Artillery Observation System Ratel, which is fairly rare, as well as one of the prototype AMLAGC. The AMLAGC seems to have evolved quite a bit from the initial LEO/G7 prototype, so I wonder if Denel succeeded in bringing the weight down as much as they intended to?

Also, does anybody know what those rectangular box things on tripods are? It appears that each G5 and Bateleur had one set up next to it.

[sa_bushwar]

Some nice pics there. I see you got a photo of the Enhanced Artillery Observation System Ratel, which is fairly rare, as well as one of the prototype AMLAGC. The AMLAGC seems to have evolved quite a bit from the initial LEO/G7 prototype, so I wonder if Denel succeeded in bringing the weight down as much as they intended to?

Also, does anybody know what those rectangular box things on tripods are? It appears that each G5 and Bateleur had one set up next to it.

The new MAOS (Mobile Artillery Observation System) in the photos above, is quite different from the earlier models (such as the one displayed at the Armour Museum in Bloemfontein). This is the first time I see the new version on public display.

Regarding LEO, the model in the pictures above still look very similar to the original one first showcased at AAD 2002 or 2004; apart for some new kit fitted. The gun carriage and barrel still look a bit heavy.

Regarding the rectangular box on tripods, not sure, it obviously has something to do with the gun laying.

For more on the South African Bushwar / Border war, see my website at: http://sites.google.com/sites/sabushwarsite/

[ingletonr]

Error 404 on http://sites.google.com/sites/sabushwarsite

[AtK]

Sorry, I meant G1 and G3 :oops:. I'm assuming they are the M1 155mm and 25 pounder.

EDIT: Indeed. The SA Bushwar page does indeed confirm my assumtion.

Thanks Atk.

Stuart tank at Army Battle School - found the photo on SANDF (SA Army) website.

[AtK]

SANDF logistic vehicles

[CMN]

www.geocities.com/sa_bushwar (http://www.geocities.com/sa_bushwar) (closing 26 October 2009)

:|

May I ask why, I enjoyed your site.

[drevil5000]

I'm not sure if any of these pics have featured in this thread yet but here goes anyway.

[Alfacentori]

This treads been a bit quiet lately, hopefully it keeps going

I know this will be a repost but I thought I would share it as a mate showed it to me the other day.

Some interesting footage and a great song, sorry don't know how to embed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eke3l8Tmqdc

Alfa

[prion]

Alfa. Thanks for posting this.

If everybody could only understand the words of the song. It is very apt at describing the situation at that time.

Thanks again.

[drevil5000]

Exercise thunder chariot and march past by 32 battalion. September 1984.

http://www.youtube.com/v/vhbS6S2uTRg

[Alfacentori]

Alfa. Thanks for posting this.

If everybody could only understand the words of the song. It is very apt at describing the situation at that time.

Thanks again.

I'm glad you liked it

I can't speak Afrikaan's beyond a few phrases myself, (being a kharkie/Aussie p-)) but my mate is fluent and he translated it for me. Mind you I think you can almost tell just from the tone the songs words.

Alfa

[wilhelm]

Thanks very very much for posting that Alfa.

My brother was a participant in Exercise Thunder Chariot, which was quite a large execise If I recall correctly. Quarter of a century ago, I must tease him when I see him at the weekend!

[AtK]

Can anyone tell what vehicle this is? Found it on a SADF related site.

[Dwelm]

It looks like a Rhodesian APC I've seen but don not know the name.

[shongololo]

Can anyone tell what vehicle this is? Found it on a SADF related site.
Looks like a Caspir
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casspir

[prion]

It is obviously a Casspir derivative. But why the two extra front wheels?

[curious george]

Looks like Casspir with ? attached to the engine compartment.Any fmr 101bn guys to enlighten us?

[koevoetconstable]

Great photos of the finest defense force on the continent.

[AtK]

Looks like Casspir with ? attached to the engine compartment.Any fmr 101bn guys to enlighten us?

Research result (by no means comprehensive). It is called a SESSPIR (referring to the 6 wheels). Built as a protoytpe circa 1984/85 by then CSIR. The front axle was a "dead" axle, it could steer, but was connected to the drivetrain. The axel was intended to be sacrificed in the event of landmines. The nose is just a cover of sorts and does not contain a bigger engine of any kind. The idea was cancelled due to the fact that the nose was too long and the CASSPIR did not have sufficient power in sandy conditions to "push along" the front axle. The axel also created numerous problems when crossing trenches or other obstacles.

[wilhelm]

Research result (by no means comprehensive). It is called a SESSPIR (referring to the 6 wheels). Built as a protoytpe circa 1984/85 by then CSIR. The front axle was a "dead" axle, it could steer, but was connected to the drivetrain. The axel was intended to be sacrificed in the event of landmines. The nose is just a cover of sorts and does not contain a bigger engine of any kind. The idea was cancelled due to the fact that the nose was too long and the CASSPIR did not have sufficient power in sandy conditions to "push along" the front axle. The axel also created numerous problems when crossing trenches or other obstacles.

Wow, interesting info AtK. I'd never heard of it before.

[GETSOME]

Does anyone know if the stepouts used by the SANDF is any different to the old SADF stepouts?
If there is any changes what are they ,e.g colour ,where the rank goes ,especially the NCOS rank etc..
Thanks.p-)

[safpiper]

SA Irish Regiment Pipes and Drums. SA Tattoo Montecasino 2009

[Snake Doctor]

I think they are pretty much the same. Not aware of any changes. Just less widely used than before..Limited to Officers and Colour Parties etc..Not for the average troep..
heres some pics of the NMR guys taken earlier this year..
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64954&page=13


Does anyone know if the stepouts used by the SANDF is any different to the old SADF stepouts?
If there is any changes what are they ,e.g colour ,where the rank goes ,especially the NCOS rank etc..
Thanks.p-)

[KeroJP4]

Hello,

I follow this very interesting thread closely, thanks for the loads of info.

I like the south african vehicles design.

Can someone point out what version of the ratel is the following ?













What version ? How long's it been in service for ?

Thank you in advance for your help.

Keep it up !

Regards,

Richard

[Dwelm]

If you have pics of the tattoo, please do share !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dwelm]

Is this (ratel) not used for the artillery ? like a reconnaissance\spotting system.

[KeroJP4]

Hello gents,

I have questions regarding the "Modular" external in '89 (with a modelling diorama project in mind I must say...) :

Do you know what were the markings of the RATEL20 that sent a whole 20mm shell band to a T-55 at almost point blank, destroying it just before being itself being shot by another nearby T55. I think I remember the gunner name was Mr. Mitton...

During "Modular", did the opponents use some T-34/85 in the battle ? I know the T55 was there, but what about the T-34/85 ?

Thank you in advance,

Regards,

Richard

[wilhelm]

Hello gents,

I have questions regarding the "Modular" external in '89 (with a modelling diorama project in mind I must say...) :

Do you know what were the markings of the RATEL20 that sent a whole 20mm shell band to a T-55 at almost point blank, destroying it just before being itself being shot by another nearby T55. I think I remember the gunner name was Mr. Mitton...

During "Modular", did the opponents use some T-34/85 in the battle ? I know the T55 was there, but what about the T-34/85 ?

Thank you in advance,

Regards,

Richard

I believe the gunner in the Ratel was Rfn Thom, who was a friend of a friend. He placed accurate 20mm fire onto the T-55, one of which penetrated around the cuppola area, detonating the T-55's internal ammunition. He was killed soon after when another T-55 shot out his Ratel. I think he was awarded a postumous Honoris Crux.

This is off the top of my head. I'll check the details later.