attn:SS

[Shake n Bake]

your name wouldn't happen to be John Rhys Davies by any chance??

Gimli raises axe for Western civilization


Perhaps the most passionate observations came from John Rhys-Davies, who plays the dwarf Gimli and voices Treebeard the Ent. Focusing on the necessity of defending civilization in times of crisis, Rhys-Davies took the media to task for failing to appreciate the preciousness of Western civilization, and warned of the potential consequences of rising Muslim extremism and the increasingly Islamic face of Europe.

“I think that Tolkien says that some generations will be challenged,” said Rhys-Davies, “and if they do not rise to meet that challenge, they will lose their civilization. That does have a real resonance with me.”

Pointing a finger at the media, Rhys-Davies went on, “What is unconscionable is that too many of your fellow journalists do not understand how precarious Western civilization is, and what a jewel it is… The abolition of slavery comes from Western democracy. True democracy comes from our Greco-Judeo-Christian Western experience. If we lose these things, then this is a catastrophe for the world.”

Rhys-Davies revealed that as far back as 1955 his father had predicted that “the next World War will be between Islam and the West.” The actor recalled his response: “I said to him, ’Dad, you’re nuts! The Crusades have been over for hundreds of years!’ And he said, ’Well, I know, but militant Islam is on the rise again. And you will see it in your lifetime.’ He’s been dead some years now. But there’s not a day that goes by that I don’t think of him and think, ’God, I wish you were here, just so I could tell you that you were right.’”

Looking at the lone female journalist at the table, Rhys-Davies said pointedly, “You should not be in this room [according to Muslim custom]. Because your husband or your father or your husband is not here to guide you. You could only be here in this room with these strange men for immoral purposes.”

Rhys-Davies went on to contemplate the significance of demographic shifts among Western Europeans and Muslims in Europe. “There is a demographic catastrophe happening in Europe that nobody wants to talk about, that we daren’t bring up because we are so cagey about not offending people racially. And rightly we should be. But there is a cultural thing as well… By 2020, fifty percent of the children in Holland under the age of 18 will be of Muslim descent…

“And don’t forget, coupled with this there is this collapse of numbers. Western Europeans are not having any babies. The population of Germany at the end of the century is going to be 56% of what it is now. The populations of France, 52% of what it is now. The population of Italy is going to be down 7 million people.

“There is a change happening in the very complexion of Western civilization in Europe that we should think about at least and argue about. If it just means the replacement of one genetic stock with another genetic stock, that doesn’t matter too much. But if it involves the replacement of Western civilization with a different civilization with different cultural values, then it is something we really ought to discuss — because, [hang it all], I am for dead-white-male culture!”

His fellow filmmakers might not all agree, but Tolkien would have applauded.

[Sixgun Symphony]

Good man! :)

No, am not an actor. I look more like the cavalryman in my signline. Tall, long dark hair and goatee.

[Uncle Sam]

Kind of "Off Topic" *hint, hint*, don't you think...?

[Shake n Bake]

to the OFF TOPIC with this mofo

[steel bonnet]

Great to See a Person In the Public eye,Actually Voicing what Common Decent Westerners are thinking :D

Alas we also have our own worse enemy,THE BLEEDING HEART LIBERALS.
With them as our Achilles heel,Islam may well just win :( Then what a sad day that would be for us ALL!!

Ja
Steel Bonnet

[StarvingStudent47]

I don't get it.

I was defending Muslim's right to practice their religion in public. Yes, I consider Muslim extremism to be as big of a threat as European fascism in the 1940s, but I am *NOT* one of those folks who hates all Muslims. I've got nothing against non-radical Muslims, just like I've got nothing against non-Nazi Germans.

So out of all "screw all Muslims" rhetoric on this board, why are you targeting this at me? I must be missing something.

By the way, John Rhys Davies kicks ass. I loved Gimli, and he was also really great as Salah, Indiana Jones' Egyptian sidekick.

[hank]

Calm down SS47 - i think it is targeted at sixnut symphomaniac

SS47 = good, SS 47 = good

hank

[StarvingStudent47]

Calm down SS47 - i think it is targeted at sixnut symphomaniac

SS47 = good, SS 47 = good

hank

Oh, sorry ;) :oops:

[marktigger]

Islam is actually a prity tolerant religon.
But put fundamentalist's in and it becomes a destructive force same with Judism and chistrianity.

The comments to the female journalist could be applied to some of the christian fundamentalists. And Christian fundamentalism is a strong force in the USA.
Yep the comments cannot be made in Europe because of race relations and political correctness about Islam or any other Non christian religon but this silence is breeding an angry generation who feel they are being marginalised in order to pander to minorities.

[Seoulstriker]

man, i don't want to be worked up about islam right now, but i just want to throw something out for discussion:

"cut off the heads of the unbelieves."

[hank]

Back in the day a brother caught stealing bread could get his head cut off and hung on a pole on bridge as an example to all others trying to steal bread. It is all relative. One man's justice is another man's extremism.

hank

[mocking_loudly_died]

Human beings in their quest to manipulate a set of personal ideals and adapt them onto others never fail to amaze me.
People that wish to see a massive rise of Muslim extremism are as evil as the source itself.
So many here seem to have a will ingrained into their underdeveloped cranium to set the west against the rest of the planet.

Ignorance bleeds an alluring stench and those that would whisper foul deeds have their day.

Humanity is once more hilarious in its lack of empathy.

[cut]

rofl rofl John Rhys Davies played a arab in indiana jones

[Kitsune]

In fact, I liked and respected John Rhys Davies...until now.

[cut]

In fact, I liked and respected John Rhys Davies...until now.

ditto

[Haiw]

In fact, I liked and respected John Rhys Davies...until now.
ditto 2

[StarvingStudent47]

Human beings in their quest to manipulate a set of personal ideals and adapt them onto others never fail to amaze me.
People that wish to see a massive rise of Muslim extremism are as evil as the source itself.
So many here seem to have a will ingrained into their underdeveloped cranium to set the west against the rest of the planet.

Ignorance bleeds an alluring stench and those that would whisper foul deeds have their day.

Humanity is once more hilarious in its lack of empathy.

How else do you explain Muslim extremist terrorist attacks against all sorts of targets (not just western ones). I'm not just talking USA and Israel. Consider:

Britain (ricin, bombing of Istanbul Embassy)
Australia (Bali bombing)
India (countless attacks)
Russia (countless attacks)
Phililippines (countless attacks)
Argentina (two Hezbollah bombings killed 100+ people)
Turkey (countless attacks)
Pakistan (Sunnis bombing Shi'ites and vice versa)
Saudi Arabia (countless attacks, including against the Qa'ba itself)

Contrary to what you're implying, I'm NOT racist. But I do see a pattern here. Don't you? Not all terrorists are Muslim, for sure, but the world scope of these attacks far outstrips anything that the KKK or IRA or Kach would ever dream of. Not to mention, the USA fights the KKK (at least nowadays; our past is admittedly checkered). The USA and Britain fight the IRA (at least nowadays; our past is admittedly checkered). Israel fights Kach. But from what I've seen, Muslim terrorists do not receive the same revulsion from the worldwide Muslim populace--they instead get a lot of "freedom fighter" apologism. This is a very major problem, which the world needs to deal with.

If you don't believe that Muslim exremism is a severe problem in the world, then you're either very blind or very lucky.

[Haiw]

I don't think mocking loudly was saying Muslim extremism shouldn't be fought, he only said that the anti-Muslim extremism is getting out of hand...

[cut]

Human beings in their quest to manipulate a set of personal ideals and adapt them onto others never fail to amaze me.
People that wish to see a massive rise of Muslim extremism are as evil as the source itself.
So many here seem to have a will ingrained into their underdeveloped cranium to set the west against the rest of the planet.

Ignorance bleeds an alluring stench and those that would whisper foul deeds have their day.

Humanity is once more hilarious in its lack of empathy.

How else do you explain Muslim extremist terrorist attacks against all sorts of targets (not just western ones). I'm not just talking USA and Israel. Consider:

Britain (ricin, bombing of Istanbul Embassy)
Australia (Bali bombing)
India (countless attacks)
Russia (countless attacks)
Phililippines (countless attacks)
Argentina (two Hezbollah bombings killed 100+ people)
Turkey (countless attacks)
Pakistan (Sunnis bombing Shi'ites and vice versa)
Saudi Arabia (countless attacks, including against the Qa'ba itself)

Contrary to what you're implying, I'm NOT racist. But I do see a pattern here. Don't you? Not all terrorists are Muslim, for sure, but the world scope of these attacks far outstrips anything that the KKK or IRA or Kach would ever dream of. Not to mention, the USA fights the KKK (at least nowadays; our past is admittedly checkered). The USA and Britain fight the IRA (at least nowadays; our past is admittedly checkered). Israel fights Kach. But from what I've seen, Muslim terrorists do not receive the same revulsion from the worldwide Muslim populace--they instead get a lot of "freedom fighter" apologism. This is a very major problem, which the world needs to deal with.

If you don't believe that Muslim exremism is a severe problem in the world, then you're either very blind or very lucky.

Would you say the same of catholics? or Basque people?


considering his comments about the dutch population in 2020, I wonder where he gets his dark skin from

http://membres.lycos.fr/indysaga/images/portsallah.jpg



also read this http://film.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,12589,1136529,00.html

[Haiw]

I know this is terribly cheap, but...

I look more like the cavalryman in my signline. Tall, long dark hair and goatee.
...and he calls us hippies? :lol:

[mocking_loudly_died]

I don't think mocking loudly was saying Muslim extremism shouldn't be fought, he only said that the anti-Muslim extremism is getting out of hand...

You are correct.

I'm thumbing through daily barrages of hate posts on this forum and it's basically really tiresome.
Especially from some people on the forum that use far right simplistic arguments to stir up racial / religious hatred.

There is a huge difference in stating your side of the case and using manipulative self-styled opinion that results in mass vilification.

[the_spec]

In the end it's fear, not an actual threat that will destroy us. People running around telling us that muslim extremism is on the rise, every muslim is bad and harbors terrorists and they all want to take over the world and kill you. So far this has lead us to the war against terror and the invasions of afghanistan and iraq gave some pretty good propaganda material to every extremist muslim organization. That's a way to do it, certainly, but I don't think that many muslims are getting the message of "we just want to help you to get rid of terrorism". The USA is not known for subtlety in such matters and that arrogance is coming across to the muslim population.

[He219]

He was also Gimli, the Dwarf Warrior in Lord of the Rings:

http://romanticmovies.about.com/library/graphics/lotr3johnjunket1.jpg

John Rhys-Davies as Gimli in "The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King."
New Line Cinema

;)

[Tommy Gunn]

Great to See a Person In the Public eye,Actually Voicing what Common Decent Westerners are thinking :D

Alas we also have our own worse enemy,THE BLEEDING HEART LIBERALS.
With them as our Achilles heel,Islam may well just win :( Then what a sad day that would be for us ALL!!

Ja
Steel Bonnet


Liberals are the enemy within and they have thrown open the gates to the barbarian hordes.

[California Joe]

WooHoo Barbarian whores. *Calling TriggerPuller*

[fantassin]

"The populations of France, 52% of what it is now"


What a lot of bull...France has the second highest fertility rate in the EU after Ireland...could be higher but nowhere near the doom scenario of what's his face

[Haiw]

Liberals are the enemy within and they have thrown open the gates to the barbarian hordes.
Low and behold...Genghis Khan will return!

[James]

Liberals are the enemy within and they have thrown open the gates to the barbarian hordes.

rofl

[Tommy Gunn]

"The populations of France, 52% of what it is now"


What a lot of bull...France has the second highest fertility rate in the EU after Ireland...could be higher but nowhere near the doom scenario of what's his face

That fertility rate is from the muslims living in France, now multiply that by the liberal immigration and France will no longer be a Western nation. It will be an Islamic state.

[Haiw]

That fertility rate is from the muslims living in France, now multiply that by the liberal immigration and France will no longer be a Western nation.
So all pinko hippie fags from all over the world are coming to France to make it the new country of love and peace?

[California Joe]

Took you 2 edits to get "hordes" right? Damn.

[StarvingStudent47]

Would you say the same of catholics? or Basque people?


No, no I wouldn't. While IRA and Basque separatist terrorism is not to be taken lightly, there is not a worldwide epidemic of Catholic terrorism like there is one of Muslim terrorism. I thought I had already made this clear.

[California Joe]

That's cause were all to busy feeling guilty.

[Tommy Gunn]

Islamic Europe? The Rise of Eurabia

Can pacifist old Europe survive Islam? Will Islam swamp France, Germany, and the rest of the secular socialist states of old Europe?

by Michael P. Germano



European culture is under siege irrespective of attempts at European unification into a "Christianized" United States of Europe. Liberalization, secularization, and the need for cheap labor brought about liberal immigration policies in some European states and the inauguration of assured cultural suicide. The result is the migration of millions of Islamic workers and their families into western Europe who have no respect for nor desire to adopt its culture as their own. This has heightened anti-Semitism and cultural conflict throughout the region for Islamic culture is neither European nor Christian in its values, ideals, or mores.MORE (http://www.bibarch.com/Perspectives/6.4D.htm)

[California Joe]

Tommy, what do you do in real life? I mean besides posting here with a bad Rocky 4 villian name and all. Are you in a position to affect policy? A member of a conservative think tank? A Government analyst? This seems to be a passion with you. Is it just something you do to while away the hours between Springer episodes and Militia meetings at the doublewide or is it more? Are you Donald Rumsfeld?

[hank]

Hey, I'm Catholic - but I bet if we asked the Mayans what they thought about Catholics terrorist would be an accurate description. Think about it. South America population is in excess of 20 million before "explorers" from Europe head over. Some years later the native population is less than 2 million and they don't have enough gold to make the gold knives necessary to kill the virgins they need to sacrifice to their God. Jeez.

Tommy boy - I went to that site and it is not as nutty as i figured it would be. I am impressed that you posted something so rational and sensible. That article is not indicative of the purpose of the site, but that is OK. One thing about that group though. They are based in the mountains of NC and that part of the world is not necessarily known for, shall we say, a wealth of ideas. The article itself provide no evidence or support for any of the claims. In order to believe its assertions you need to blindly accept them. No thanks.

Here is one funny quote I liked: "Who will save what is left of Christian Europe from an undeclared war they call Jihad? There is only one authority with the historical and political prestige to make a real difference—the papacy. Within a pro-Islam Roman Catholic Church Will Pope Karol Wojtyla take the needed steps? Don't count on it. The one to come may follow a far different course."

pro-Islam Roman Catholic Church? Now I am the first to admit, as a Catholic, that we have lots of problems that we need to fix. But pro-Islam? Facts to back up that label would be great. Unfortunately, none are forthcoming.

What does he want the Pope to do. Hire a bunch of nobelman and mercenaries to go down there and kick Islam's ass? Oh, yeah, we tried that and it did not work. Well, I'll think about it.

hank

[California Joe]

Calling all Knights Templar.......

[hank]

You chose wisely . . . Indy!

hank

[StarvingStudent47]

Calling all Knights Templar.......

http://www.hammerfall.net/gfx/download/wallpapers/0009_s.jpg


A flash in the night, a journey through time
The Templars are back on the streets
Guarded by prowess and the will to survive
All led by the guiding light
Angels of mercy, guardians of time
Shackled and chained through the eternal flame
The Hammer will slowly arise
Heeding the call, one and for all
Never surrender, with glory we'll fall
Brothers unite, let's stand up and fight
Fulfilling our fate we are Heeding the call
One step ahead, revealing the past
United, together we stand
The call of the thunder, the sign to begin
This final crusade we will win
Angels of mercy, our journey must proceed
With hearts all filled up with chivalry
The lifeblood that we all need
Heeding the call, one and for all
Never surrender, with glory we'll fall
Brothers unite, let's stand up and fight
Fulfilling our fate we are Heeding the call
Oh, oh, oh...
Heeding the call, one and for all
Never surrender, with glory we'll fall
Brothers unite, let's stand up and fight
Fulfilling our fate we are Heeding the call

[California Joe]

*playing air guitar whilst wearing leather chaps*

[radon]

Immigrants have more children than other people. Thats just the way it is. This can be seen by just walking on the street.

[StealthMode]

Islam tolerant.....

Talked to some of my Islamic friends about this. All they can say is, it is the uneducated that take the Koran to an extreme level. We all know the worst terrorists are the most educated, typically in the west.

On another point:
-The Crusades was a man driven drive to spread religon not Bible law or divinity driven.

-The Koran directs the spread...."the word" directs.... violent in nature as well if need be. A difference between the two, so I dont see a comparison.

I got this off of one of "you guys" a few months ago on another thread:
It has led me to many discussion's with scholars, and peers, Islam and Christian alike...I have yet to be convinced that Islam is anything but a horrible plaque to human evolution and progress. Maybe at one point in time it was favorable for certain societys, but not with the change of the world (which I think can be said to be positive and progressive for our civilization).

If you want to check translation, which is often an argument... go here.. I think it offers 3 seperate translations, which all tend to be very close
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
Just find the chapter, it is very easy, and you MAY see what Im saying. I would love to be convinced otherwise, it is just to obvious to me of its negative nature.


Islam, the religion of peace…

"Kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Koran 2:191)

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and genitals cut off, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34)

"Not to make friendship with Jews and Christians" (Koran 5:51)

"Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12)

"In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37)

"If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them [infidels]" (Koran 8:65).

Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (Koran 9:3)

"Fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (Koran 9:5)

Our God tells us to "fight the unbelievers" and "He will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame and help us (to victory) over them" (Koran 9:14).

"Until they pay the Jizya [a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (Koran 9:29)

"Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place" (9:39).

"O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73)

"Murder them and treat them harshly" (Koran 9:123)

"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:40)

"When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)

"How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples." (Koran, 21:11)

"strike off the heads of the disbelievers" (Koran 47:4)

"Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin." (Koran 69:30-37)

"You (i.e. Muslims) will fight wi the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' " (Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177)

The Prophet killed the men of the Jewish tribe Bani Quraiza (some 600 to 800 of them) and distributed their women, children and property among the Muslims All the other Jews of Medina were exiled. (Bukhari 5:59:362)

The Prophet had the date-palms of the Jewish tribe of Bani-Al- Nadir burnt and cut down. "It was with Allah's permission" (Koran 59:5)

The Prophet said to Sa'd, :The Bani Quraiza have agreed to accept your verdict" Sa'd said, "Kill all their men and take their women and children as slaves" The Prophet replied, "You have judged according to God's Judgment" (Bukhari 5:59:447)

"The Christians say: The Christ is the son of Allah; "Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:29)

These are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them." (Sura 9:30)

"Unbelievers are those who say: 'God is one of three.' There is but one God. If they do not desist from so saying, those of them that disbelieve shall be sternly punished." (Surah 5:73)

[hank]

Immigrants have more children than other people. Thats just the way it is. This can be seen by just walking on the street.

Radon, for God's sake. If you are going to slander someone at least figure out who the F you are talking about. Immigrants could be anybody. For Christ sake, if I decide to emigrate to France and thereby become an immigrant, am I more likely to have more kids. J _ sus F _ _ king C _ rist! NO!

Will it ever stop. You guys are too stupid to even get your damned sterotypes right.

For the people on the thread who care. What Radon was trying to stay before his stupidity got in the way was that Islamic immigrants have more kids, I think.

One other thing. Where is that street? Here in Knoxville we don't have signs on our clothes that say"IMMIGRANT". So, how would I know who is and who isn't. I saw a caucasian woman at Kroger yesterday wearing traditional Islamic head covering. I forgot to ask her if she was an immigrant.

dip**** - sorry I hate labels but I can't help myself on this one

hank

[hank]

"The Second Crusade, 1147–49, was preached by St. Bernard of Clairvaux after the fall (1144) of Edessa to the Turks. It was led by Holy Roman Emperor Conrad III, whose army set out first, and by King Louis VII of France. Both armies passed through the Balkans and pillaged the territory of the Byzantine emperor, Manuel I, who provided them with transportation to Asia Minor in order to be rid of them. The German contingent, already decimated by the Turks, merged (1148) with the French, who had fared only slightly better, at Acre (Akko). A joint attack on Damascus failed because of jealousy and, possibly, treachery among the Latin princes of the Holy Land. Conrad returned home in 1148 and was followed (1149) by Louis. The Second Crusade thus ended in dismal failure." - this is from an encyclopedia

Lead by the Holy Roman Emperor Conrad III - I think that means religious involvement

"The Third Crusade, 1189–92, followed on the capture (1187) of Jerusalem by Saladin and the defeat of Guy of Lusignan, Reginald of Châtillon, and Raymond of Tripoli at Hattin. The crusade was preached by Pope Gregory VIII but was directed by its leaders—Richard I of England, Philip II of France, and Holy Roman Emperor Frederick I. "

called for by a pope - partly paid for also

"Pope Innocent III launched the Fourth Crusade, 1202–1204, which was totally diverted from its original course. "

So, now we have direct Catholic involvement

I don't mean to be pissy, but radon's post kind of set me off. The Crusades were directed by several Popes. There was private involvement to be sure, but the Catholic church bears a lot of responsibility for them.

hank

[StealthMode]

I see your point hank.
Yes, direct Catholic involvment.
Driven by 2 religious leaders. Not the bible. not the word of god.

The KORAN specifically calls for this action. To convert the "non-believers", using violence and total decimation of their society if needed. You can see some points in the brief i posted, or do more research.

Crusades..man driven..not by the bible

Islamic extremisim (or maybe not even extreme)....Religoun driven..by the Koran

I will admit I am no expert, but I have done an average amount of looking into this, discussion with Muslim, and Christain alike, scholar and peer alike. This is the conclussion I am led too.. please change that opinion if you can prove it to me..

Nice post hank.. fact

[hank]

Stealth - I wasn't sniping you. Its all good. I just mean that when the Pope sends Knights to Jerusalem to get back the Holy Land you can expect the inhabitants of the Holy Land to remember it. I don't mean to say that God says we must or anything like that. But the Crusades were conducted at the behest of the head of the Catholic Church and at that time the Catholic Church was Christianity.

hank

[radon]

Immigrants have more children than other people. Thats just the way it is. This can be seen by just walking on the street.

Radon, for God's sake. If you are going to slander someone at least figure out who the F you are talking about. Immigrants could be anybody. For Christ sake, if I decide to emigrate to France and thereby become an immigrant, am I more likely to have more kids. J _ sus F _ _ king C _ rist! NO!

No YOU likely wont have more children if you move to France. But Immigrants STATISTICALLY have more children than other people. That simple. Now where? This is a thread about Europe which includes places like France for example.


One other thing. Where is that street? Here in Knoxville we don't have signs on our clothes that say"IMMIGRANT". So, how would I know who is and who isn't. I saw a caucasian woman at Kroger yesterday wearing traditional Islamic head covering. I forgot to ask her if she was an immigrant.
Ok then immigrants and they'r descendants then. No one cant spot immigrants and immigrant descendants automatically and with 100% accuracy. But you can generally have a idea. Look for example more than ten years ago many Somalian people came to Finland. There werent that many? or none Somalians living around here back then, so one can see right away those people are immigrants. This functions also in France, and in every place where MOST immigrants and theyr descandants have different looks than the main population.


dip**** - sorry I hate labels but I can't help myself on this one
Now this is all about words. Immigrant , does it include only first or second generation people. You seemed desperatly to try to tear my post apart. You knew very well what i meant. I see i have to write more carefully here. Would you have posted like that , if we had the same opinion?


Will it ever stop. You guys are too stupid to even get your damned sterotypes right.

Now look. I am against massive immigration , but that doesent make some nazi planning the next holocaust. If that is what you meant?

[Tommy Gunn]

Rise of the Islamic Empire and the Threat to the West
By Anthony J. Dennis
Wyndam Hall Press, Lima, Ohio: 1996
Second Edition (2001) ISBN: 1-55605-339-8


When The Rise of the Islamic Empire and the Threat to the West was first published in 1996, it received little popular attention, although it was well received in academic circles. Due to the events surrounding September 11th there has arisen a general interest in all things dealing with Islam. This rise in interest represents, on many levels, peoples need to understand how such events could have occurred, and whether or not such violence is inherent in Islam, or if it is just an apparition.

In this book, Anthony J. Dennis takes a comprehensive look at Islam, from both a political and religious perspective. He discusses the rise of Islam, its role throughout history, and how Islam is more than just a religious system, but a political system as well. With this knowledge in hand, Dennis then explores how the Cold War served to keep fundamentalist Islamic tendencies in check. When the Cold War ended, fundamentalist Islamic forces quickly filled the power void created by the fall of Communism.

Many of the leaders in Islamic countries are full-fledged dictators, and the threat these leaders pose to their own people is chronicled in the pages of this book, as are the threats these individuals pose to the West. In looking at this threat, Dennis offers an in-depth analysis as to why the Islamic world, as a whole, hates the West. This analysis also details how, and why, this hatred often manifests itself in violent actions.

Is Islam, as a religion, a faith built upon a foundation of violence? Is it a religion that glorifies murderers of innocents? Or is it the nonviolent, peaceful religion that it is often proclaimed as by apologetics? There are no right or wrong answers here. Your answer to these questions will depend upon your personal experiences and your world view. However, after reading this book, you will be hard pressed not to see that Islam represents a very real threat to the West.

While the events of September 11th were horrific, they were not isolated events. Various Islamic extremist groups have used suicide 'terrorist' for decades, especially against Israel. For Americans', they may have viewed these acts with repugnance, but they had little impact on day to day life in America. Recent events have proven that no matter how powerful we 'think' we are, we are still vulnerable to attack.

This is not an anti-Islam book, although it does highlight a variety of negative aspects inherent in Islamic Fundamentalism. However, these 'fundamentalists' are not individuals who adhere strictly to the tenets of Islam. Rather they are, for the most case, individuals who have perverted Islam to suit their own needs and objectives. As such they remake the laws of Islam, offering unique interpretations of doctrine that they impose upon their followers.

Looking at this book piecemeal, or without reading it, many may jump to the conclusion that Dennis is merely rehashing a stereotypical image of the Muslim hordes unrepentantly slaughtering every nonbelieiver that crosses their path. Far from offering a stereotypical overview, Dennis has constructed a well researched, and thoroughly documented work that clearly and succinctly outlines the threat that Islam represents for the West, and why this threat arose in the first place. At the end of each chapter you will find Dennis's endnotes, which serve to point out the veracity of his thesis. They also serve as a good starting point for further study into this topic. Most important, this book serves as a wake-up call for politicians and foreign affair experts who do not yet realize the threat posed by Islam, and America's vulnerability to such a threat.

When this book was first published in 1996, Dennis stated, "...Islam in its violent, reactionary, fundamentalist form will continue to be the number one threat to world peace and the very survival of the human species in the late 1990s and beyond..." (Pg. ii). To date, he has not been far off the mark. Read this book. You may not agree with everything that Dennis says, but one thing is certain, this book will make you think....

http://rcm-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/associates/remote-buy-box/buy2.gif (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/dt/assoc/tg/aa/xml/assoc/-/1556053398/largeprintreview/ref%3Dac%5Fbb2%5F%2C%5Famazon/103-6596999-5935855)

[StealthMode]

So is this a neutral post? Are you just giving us a source of information to gain knowledge from, or are you saying something, taking a stance?

Your post say's a couple things that strike me:

Is Islam, as a religion, a faith built upon a foundation of violence? Is it a religion that glorifies murderers of innocents? Or is it the nonviolent, peaceful religion that it is often proclaimed as by apologetics? There are no right or wrong answers here.

Read my previous post. Right or Wrong answers? It is violent, read the small post I have above as much more can be found in the Koran. It is violent.


Dennis stated, "...Islam in its violent, reactionary, fundamentalist form will continue to be the number one threat to world peace and the very survival of the human species in the late 1990s and beyond..." (Pg. ii). To date, he has not been far off the mark.

So you are agreeing with me that Islam is a plague to modern civilization by posting this, as this book apparently supports this idea?

I have Islamic friends, they try to help with my opinion, still looking for something to change it, as I am completly open to it.

[Tommy Gunn]

So is this a neutral post? Are you just giving us a source of information to gain knowledge from, or are you saying something, taking a stance?

A bit of both really. There is bibliographic information on the book that people can use to check out at their local library if they wish. My advise is for others to read the book and make up their own mind.



So you are agreeing with me that Islam is a plague to modern civilization by posting this, as this book apparently supports this idea?


Agreeing with you?

I am a Christian and my view is that Mohammed was a false prophet. I am alarmed by the aggressive Islamic expansionism in sub-saharan Africa (reviving the black slave trade) and the Islamic expansionism into Europe (what was Christendom) because of the insanely liberal immigration policies there.


1 John 2: 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.



Matthew
7:15
"Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravaging wolves.

15:9
They worship Me in vain, teaching as doctrines the commands of men."

15:14
Leave them alone! They are blind guides. And if the blind guide the blind, both will fall into a pit."

24:24
False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

[Haiw]

Am I the only one that gets really really skeptical when bible quotes are used as an argument? :roll:

[Ian H]

To boil this down from the apocalyptic Huntingdonesque confrontation some seem to be concerned about, I don't feel Islamic culture is as massive a threat to the West as some think. Most of the west is now firmly secular, and this secularism has been institutionalized to such an extent that extremists of all colours trying to enter politics are generally forced to tone down their rhetoric.

Muslims may feel that non Muslims are somehow unworthy, but in my home town (Oldham) there is a fairly substantial Muslim population (mostly Pakistani if anyone's interested), and whilst they are generally more openly religious and 'traditional' in dress and attitudes than whites they do not and never have gone around trying to convert shoppers in the Spindles. In fact the only religious expansionism I have come across was in school when the Gideons handed out Bibles.

From this experience I feel the main problem people have with immigration is race. Oldham had quite bad race riots in 2001, but there have never to my knowledge been religious inspired incidents of similar scale. A white Muslim would probably not be seen in as bad a light by a westerner as an Asian one. Sad, but that's the way it is. I'm not accusing anyone of being a racist here, but its something to consider.

[Ian H]

Haiw: Not at all. Same applies to any religious book in my opinion.

[Tommy Gunn]

Muslims may feel that non Muslims are somehow unworthy, but in my home town (Oldham) there is a fairly substantial Muslim population (mostly Pakistani if anyone's interested), and whilst they are generally more openly religious and 'traditional' in dress and attitudes than whites they do not and never have gone around trying to convert shoppers in the Spindles. In fact the only religious expansionism I have come across was in school when the Gideons handed out Bibles.


You have an Islamic colony in your home town and yet you can't see the Islamic expansionism? Maybe it is lack of comprehension here.

[Haiw]

Or maybe it's his lack of xeno- and Islamophobism...

(Sorry for the shameless plagiarism Royal :oops:)

Ian, I agree... any religious, politically or xenophobically (is that a word?) motivated book.

[Ian H]

You have an Islamic colony in your home town and yet you can't see the Islamic expansionism? Maybe it is lack of comprehension here.

Nope, its definitely absence of Islamic expansionism. :D

(Haiw: there's that too)

There are probably residents who would like nothing better than to convert us all, but they know they'd get nowhere so don't bother. Which is precisely my point. Most of western Europe is too secular to embrace Islam, and the idea that these immigrants are the advance guard for a Muslim invasion of Europe is quite frankly stupid.

Maybe things are different in America. I know you guys are generally more religious than us, and so more likely to feel threatened by a new religion rolling into town, but come on, you really think immigrants, who generally immigrate because of greater opportunity and wealth in the West, are really going to try to destroy the society they have moved to to improve their lot?

[Tommy Gunn]

It is people like Haiw that are destroying Western Civilization from within.
But what is Christendom to such athiests?

[Ian H]

Well by definition, nothing.

[Tommy Gunn]

Ian H,

There are tens of millions of muslims in Europe, there are millions more flowing in. The muslims have higher birthrates than the decadent Europeans. In a few decades, the muslims will be the majority population in what was once called Christendom and the vanishing minority of cluelessly liberal Europeans will have Shaaria imposed on them.

[Haiw]

It is people like Haiw that are destroying Western Civilization from within.
But what is Christendom to such athiests?
Aaah right...it's us heathens that are destroying the foundations of the mighty church that is Western Civilization... :roll:

Please excuse me while I get you a glass of water from the fountain of sanity.

[Haiw]

Ian H,

There are tens of millions of muslims in Europe, there are millions more flowing in. The muslims have higher birthrates than the decadent Europeans. In a few decades, the muslims will be the majority population in what was once called Christendom and the vanishing minority of cluelessly liberal Europeans will have Shaaria imposed on them.
Ahh right... just so you now; right now the muslims are roughly 7% of the European population.

Another thing you propably don't know; there's 70 Muslim-majority nations in the world. Exactely 4 of those have Shaaria law.

So of course it is safe to conclude we'll all be under Shaaria law down here in Europe in 50 years...

[Tommy Gunn]

Show a source for your findings.

Many liberals like yourself will count the children of muslim immigrants as being of a European nationality to disguise the true numbers.

Show how Islamic fundamentalism is not spreading in the Islamic world.

[Hydro]

Well, it seems we now have a choice between Islamic Fundamentalism, or Christian Fundamentalism! Tommy Gunn has all the answers, guys! But then again, I'm obviously some pinko commie Euro fag. Excuse me whilst I help Haiw destroy Western civilisation. I've got nothing better to do.

[Ian H]

Yeah, I'm up for that. Count me in.

[Roger Rabbit]

I don't like pink. It doesnt go with my trousers. Does that mean i can't join in?

i was away this weekend, what happened to Sixgun?

[Hydro]

I'm not sure what happened to Sixgun, I think he retreated into his foil lined bunker after he heard the UN-supplied, Islamic-utilised, homo******ly-sponsored satellites were overhead.

[Roger Rabbit]

Best place for him. Thanks for the update.

[Haiw]

Show a source for your findings.

Many liberals like yourself will count the children of muslim immigrants as being of a European nationality to disguise the true numbers.

Show how Islamic fundamentalism is not spreading in the Islamic world.
http://www.islamicpopulation.com/europe_general.html
Their main source is...the highly unreliable hippie source CIA World Factbook

The Shaaria states thing is something you can just google for.

'Show how Islamic fundamentalism is not spreading in the Islamic world'
Err...how could I? Should I go all over the world and take pictures everywhere? This is like saying "Show me the climate isn't changing"...

[StarvingStudent47]

I'm not sure what happened to Sixgun, I think he retreated into his foil lined bunker after he heard the UN-supplied, Islamic-utilised, homo******ly-sponsored satellites were overhead.

Well we've gotta act quick before Ellen Degeneres acquires WMDs or lands on the moon...

[mocking_loudly_died]

I'm not sure what happened to Sixgun, I think he retreated into his foil lined bunker after he heard the UN-supplied, Islamic-utilised, homo******ly-sponsored satellites were overhead.

rofl

To funny.

[Tommy Gunn]

After 500 years, Granada's Muslims get their mosque (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/07/08/wmosq08.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/07/08/ixworld.html)

There you go, just like that, five hundred years of good work have been flushed down the toilet.

After a wait of more than 500 years, Spanish Muslims have finally succeeded in building a mosque of their own in the shadow of the Alhambra, once the symbol of Islamic power in Europe.

The opening, by Muslim and Spanish officials on Thursday, will be rich in symbolism.

As Al-Jazeera television broadcasts the event live, a muezzin will climb the minaret of Granada's Great Mosque and call the faithful to prayer for the first time in half a millennium.

The fact that Jihad-TV will be broadcasting this live into millions of Muslim homes doesn't make anyone wonder about the huge symbolic implications of this activity?

It is, say its builders, the symbol of the revival of Islam in Europe and Spain's "glorious Islamic heritage".

For that reason, though, many Spaniards are quietly unhappy. "Everybody is opposed to it, but they know it's politically impossible to voice their objections," said one local journalist.

Thank you so much, Political Correctness, for helping the Religion of Peace™ to make a comeback in Andalusia.

[i]And history is alive in the memories of Muslims. The yearning for a return to Islam's cherished province of Al-Andalus is often the subject of Islamic poetry.

Osama bin Laden has frequently mentioned the Muslim claim on the territory that for many symbolises the apex of Islamic learning and culture.

Never forget, Bin Loser may enjoy attacking Americans, but his ultimate goal is to establish an Islamic Caliphate based in Granada...

"I have noticed there has been a change in the past few weeks - the fact we have opened to the public has dispelled some of the fears," said Mr Haqq. "We have made clear this is not a return to Al-Andalus for the likes of bin Laden, but a statement of Spain's heritage."

Right, it's all downhill from here.

Was only a matter of time? It's like an equation: put together increased Islamic militancy (blurring the line between Islamic fundamentalism and "moderatism", whatever that is, high Islamic birthrates, abyssmal Islamic economic performance, relatively high European economic performance, abyssmal European birthrates. Factor in decreased European pride in their heritage (political correctness). What did y'all expect would happen?

[Tommy Gunn]

Show a source for your findings.

Many liberals like yourself will count the children of muslim immigrants as being of a European nationality to disguise the true numbers.

Show how Islamic fundamentalism is not spreading in the Islamic world.
http://www.islamicpopulation.com/europe_general.html
Their main source is...the highly unreliable hippie source CIA World Factbook

The Shaaria states thing is something you can just google for.

'Show how Islamic fundamentalism is not spreading in the Islamic world'
Err...how could I? Should I go all over the world and take pictures everywhere? This is like saying "Show me the climate isn't changing"...


From reading this NPR news report, Europe's Muslim population has doubled in the last decade, and an estimated half a million new immigrants -- most of the from Muslim nations -- arrive every year.

The numbers you give is close to 10%. This is a very large minority. One out of ten people in Christendom is now a muslim.
Now factor in the negative birthrate of Europeans against the high birthrate of the muslims, then factor in the massive muslim immigration from an overpopulated 3rd World.

It will be death of the West in about five more decades.


CBC News: European population on shrinking course (http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/03/27/eu_pop030327)

An Islamic Journey Inside Europe (http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2003/feb/europe_muslims/)

[Haiw]

Glad to see you joined the big majority in adding unserious and humerous responses!

[cut]

After 500 years, Granada's Muslims get their mosque (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/07/08/wmosq08.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/07/08/ixworld.html)

There you go, just like that, five hundred years of good work have been flushed down the toilet.

After a wait of more than 500 years, Spanish Muslims have finally succeeded in building a mosque of their own in the shadow of the Alhambra, once the symbol of Islamic power in Europe.

The opening, by Muslim and Spanish officials on Thursday, will be rich in symbolism.

As Al-Jazeera television broadcasts the event live, a muezzin will climb the minaret of Granada's Great Mosque and call the faithful to prayer for the first time in half a millennium.

The fact that Jihad-TV will be broadcasting this live into millions of Muslim homes doesn't make anyone wonder about the huge symbolic implications of this activity?

It is, say its builders, the symbol of the revival of Islam in Europe and Spain's "glorious Islamic heritage".

For that reason, though, many Spaniards are quietly unhappy. "Everybody is opposed to it, but they know it's politically impossible to voice their objections," said one local journalist.

Thank you so much, Political Correctness, for helping the Religion of Peace™ to make a comeback in Andalusia.

[i]And history is alive in the memories of Muslims. The yearning for a return to Islam's cherished province of Al-Andalus is often the subject of Islamic poetry.

Osama bin Laden has frequently mentioned the Muslim claim on the territory that for many symbolises the apex of Islamic learning and culture.

Never forget, Bin Loser may enjoy attacking Americans, but his ultimate goal is to establish an Islamic Caliphate based in Granada...

"I have noticed there has been a change in the past few weeks - the fact we have opened to the public has dispelled some of the fears," said Mr Haqq. "We have made clear this is not a return to Al-Andalus for the likes of bin Laden, but a statement of Spain's heritage."

Right, it's all downhill from here.

Was only a matter of time? It's like an equation: put together increased Islamic militancy (blurring the line between Islamic fundamentalism and "moderatism", whatever that is, high Islamic birthrates, abyssmal Islamic economic performance, relatively high European economic performance, abyssmal European birthrates. Factor in decreased European pride in their heritage (political correctness). What did y'all expect would happen?

the world is going to hell!!!

[Tommy Gunn]

the world is going to hell!!!

Where have you been? Everything started going to hell back in the 1960's.

[Haiw]

And what happened in the sixties? Yup.. the Beatles. They are the true source of evil!!

[cut]

the world started going to hell 1500 years ago

[Haiw]

Yeah...1500 years ago...at the birth of England. ;)

[Truthsayer]

Immigrants have more children than other people. Thats just the way it is. This can be seen by just walking on the street.

Biggest immigration-group into Sweden: Finish people.

Do you all **** like rabits?

[Tommy Gunn]

And what happened in the sixties? Yup.. the Beatles. They are the true source of evil!!

The Beatles were part of the radical 1960's "counter culture". They won the culture war back in the 1960's by attracting the youth, it was the onset of decadence for Western Civilization.

[StarvingStudent47]

And what happened in the sixties? Yup.. the Beatles. They are the true source of evil!!

The Beatles were part of the radical 1960's "counter culture". They won the culture war back in the 1960's by attracting the youth, it was the onset of decadence for Western Civilization.

I thought that began in the 1950s when Elvis gyrated his hips in a lascivious manner, converting millions to Satanism and drug abuse ;)

[Ian H]

No no, it was Bill Haley, he started rock and roll and turned the youth of the time away from good wholesome and acceptable pursuits like hoe-downs, patriotic service and good old christianity.

For God's sake.

[gilgoul]

Islam is actually a prity tolerant religon.
But put fundamentalist's in and it becomes a destructive force same with Judism and chistrianity.

The comments to the female journalist could be applied to some of the christian fundamentalists. And Christian fundamentalism is a strong force in the USA.
Yep the comments cannot be made in Europe because of race relations and political correctness about Islam or any other Non christian religon but this silence is breeding an angry generation who feel they are being marginalised in order to pander to minorities.

The difference is that christian or jewish fundamentalists haven`t blowns themsleves in buses or theatre , at leats not yet, while suicide terrorism is a commen, aprreciated andencouraged practice in the muslinm world, that unfortunately has become more and more permeable to the fundamentalist propaganda.
From that, what do we do?
I despise racism, do not allow myself to judge any culture or religion, everyone being sitted on some pile of bones, but we all have to understand that there is a sense of urgency here, and that we are UNDER ATTACK from NY to MOSCOW, and that the people commiting those murders alway correspond to the same description, they are muslim extremists, often of wahhabist current, they chose systematically non military targets, and they use spectacular and gruesome means to achieve their objective.
Will they succeed?
If europe continues playing it appeasement, yes, they will.
And as said "gimli", it`s not about genetics, I personally do`nt give a ****, It` sall about the culture, the tolerance, the democracy, the wealth and the traditions, the civilisation.

[Caribou Kid]

Are you all sure it wasn't that insidious Glenn Miller and his Big Band sound that led to the beginning of the end of Western Civilization as we know it? That jitterbug was a dance move that surely deserved a burka, if ever there was one. Beware the siren song of the boogie woogie bugle boy from Company B!

No wait a minute! It was those darn Flappers! I tell ya, That Great Gatsby was the living personification of Baelzebub himself..! Dang beads hangin' all every which where. Yeah..definately those Flappers. I've seen the News reels..I know what I'm on about, sonny. (Lights corncob pipe.) :P

[Ian H]

By jimini! You're right!
This cultural decay is worse than we thought. Send for the dentist