IDF Training And Body Armor

[Sayeret]

I was reading recently in www.strategpage.com that the main reason why the US was losing so few infantry in Iraq before the war ended was because of two things. The infantry had trained with MILES and also they had body armor that could stop AK-47 7.62mm rounds. I was trying to find out what body armor the Israelis use and how effective it is and if they have any training like MILES. Also please post pictures of the training or armor.

Don't make this into an argument about the Israelis and the Palestinians this is only meant to find out about IDF training and body armor.

[elguapo]

in order to save this topic I'm gona post some photos cause I have a similar doubt!

The Marines here in Brazil use israeli made vests and helmets. I'm trying to identify a company or perharps even the model!


here is the body armor

http://www.tropaselite.hpg.ig.com.br/BRASIL60.jpg

[elguapo]

Also I checked IMI's body armor page but couldn't find it

http://www.comffe.mar.mil.br/fotos/morteiro120_foto.jpg

http://www.comffe.mar.mil.br/fotos/morteiro81_foto.jpg

http://www.comffe.mar.mil.br/fotos/combatente_foto.jpg

[Uninen]

Miles..

It isnt that effective or realistic.. as that training doesnt show all the dangers of small arms fire.. IE, with miles you cant kill trough trees or walls.. etc..

Also about IDF body armors.. from what i have seen pics.. they have plenty different kinds of effective body armors.. and those are also being sold around the world.. IE to militaries of South America.. :)

[elguapo]

Miles..

Also about IDF body armors.. from what i have seen pics.. they have plenty different kinds of effective body armors.. and those are also being sold around the world.. IE to militaries of South America.. :)

hee I guess I knew that already...


from Isayeret,
but none of those seem to be the kind of vest I'm looking for


http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/special/7142/7142-26.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/photos/963.jpg

[elguapo]

IMI's
http://www.imi.co.il/imi/doa_iis.dll/Serve/Item/English/1.1.2.5.7.html

[George W. Bush]

LOL Yeah training with Miles isn't effective, keep on dreaming buddy

[Uninen]

LOL Yeah training with Miles isn't effective, keep on dreaming buddy

:roll: I have ****ing used it.. have you? And i said:


It isnt that effective or realistic.. as that training doesnt show all the dangers of small arms fire.. IE, with miles you cant kill trough trees or walls.. etc..

:cantbeli:

I didnt say that its totally ineffective, just said that it doesnt really are that realistic..

Futhermore:

I aint your 'buddy' so back off!

[IDFM203]

First, your screen name is sayeret…. If your not in fact Israeli or served in a sayeret unit, can you explain why you chose that screen name…….. I mean is it simply that you respect the IDF sayerets and you chose their name out of respect and admiration? :D

I am curious to know :D


I was reading recently in www.strategpage.com that the main reason why the US was losing so few infantry in Iraq before the war ended was because of two things. ....and the third reason added to that was because of the Israeli training and tactics and lessons, given to the Marines and other U.S. infantry units. (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6967&highlight=marines+israel) ;)
(Read my first post there)


I was trying to find out what body armor the Israelis use and how effective it is and if they have any training like MILES. Also please post pictures of the training or armor. yes besides extensive live fire and “car15” paintball gun training, yes the IDF has been training with MILES for years as well. Its used along with other methods.

As for body Armour in the IDF Click here for this (http://www.isayeret.com/vest/ceramic.htm) which are excellent vests that can in fact stop up to up to 7.62 mm or click here (http://www.isayeret.com/vest/bullet.htm) or Here (http://www.isayeret.com/vest/batash.htm) for the other Armour protection vests.


As for training pics, funny that you ask this for I just had a thread the other day that had a lot of IDF pics including some training pics as well……….here is that thread (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8636)

As for more pics or more info on training, click Here for the isayeret.com site which is a excellent site on the IDF SF infantry. (http://www.isayeret.com/main/guide.htm)


Other then that site, if you have any questions (which you shouldn’t for that site is very detailed), I can try to answer it, though I caution you that I am limited to give specifics on training or tactics for I don’t want to break any of my OPSEC rules that we have.





The Marines here in Brazil use israeli made vests and helmets. I'm trying to identify a company or perharps even the model!
First of all, thanks for sharing your brazilin pics with Israeli gear :D

Nice pics :D

As for the companies, click here for a page on the Israeli companies. (http://www.isayeret.com/links/guide.htm)

Just curious, what other Israeli gear do you guys use?

Boy before it was about Israeli arms in Finland and in Poland (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6843&highlight=euro+spike) and today I found out about Israeli gear and arms in Singapore (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8208&start=40) and now its on to south America :D

Shalom :D

[elguapo]

The Marines here in Brazil use israeli made vests and helmets. I'm trying to identify a company or perharps even the model!
First of all, thanks for sharing your brazilin pics with Israeli gear :D

Nice pics :D

As for the companies, click here for a page on the Israeli companies. (http://www.isayeret.com/links/guide.htm)

Just curious, what other Israeli gear do you guys use?

Boy before it was about Israeli arms in Finland and in Poland (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6843&highlight=euro+spike) and today I found out about Israeli gear and arms in Singapore (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8208&start=40) and now its on to south America :D

Shalom :D


thank's for the links , I still have to look into it

As for more Israeli gear it's hard to identify it but I think all gear used here by the marines is Israeli.

http://www.tropaselite.hpg.ig.com.br/BRASIL72.jpg

http://www.cbebop.hpg.com.br/35.jpg

By the way the heavy mortar I posted above is also Israeli :D

MORTEIRO 120 mm K6A3
ALCANCE MÁXIMO - 7200 m
PESO - 418 Kg
Fabricante: Soltam
País: Israel

http://www.comffe.mar.mil.br/fotos/morteiro120_foto.jpg

[Uninen]

By the way the heavy mortar I posted above is also Israeli :D

MORTEIRO 120 mm K6A3
ALCANCE MÁXIMO - 7200 m
PESO - 418 Kg
Fabricante: Soltam
País: Israel

http://www.comffe.mar.mil.br/fotos/morteiro120_foto.jpg

SOLTAM..

That makes it Finnish mortar.. ;)

[IDFM203]

in order to save this topic I'm gona post some photos cause I have a similar doubt!

The Marines here in Brazil use israeli made vests and helmets. I'm trying to identify a company or perharps even the model!


here is the body armor

http://www.tropaselite.hpg.ig.com.br/BRASIL60.jpgActually I took a second look at your pic and I know who makes the vest and the helmet there.

Its not IMI but it’s the Israeli company called Rabintex (http://www.rabintex.com/vests.htm) They are the same company that has come out with the new “Super MICH” which they call the “attack helmet” (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4704&highlight=rabintex)


As for the Mortar. Yeah I thought so…its made by the Israeli company called. Soltam (http://www.soltam.com/)

They are an excellent company……an interesting note about this company is that besides military armaments, this company makes pots and pans for cooking…..gotta love it :P

Shalom :D

[IDFM203]

SOLTAM..

That makes it Finnish mortar.. ;) how so?

[IDFM203]

As for more Israeli gear it's hard to identify it but I think all gear used here by the marines is Israeli.

http://www.tropaselite.hpg.ig.com.br/BRASIL72.jpg

Am I perhaps seeing Israeli combat boots there? :D


I am not sure and I can’t tell for sure based on those pics, but nothing will surprise me now ;)

If you can provide me a closer pic of those boots I will be able to tell.

Shalom :D

[Uninen]

SOLTAM..

That makes it Finnish mortar.. ;) how so?

solTAM is sister comppany of Finnish TAMpella (today Patria..) and basicly all mortars and field guns they build are on Finnish designs, or modified Finnish designs.. and this is a fact, not a widely known as such, but still is.. :)

Its kinda hus-hus..

[IDFM203]

SOLTAM..

That makes it Finnish mortar.. ;) how so?

solTAM is sister comppany of Finnish TAMpella (today Patria..) and basicly all mortars and field guns they build are on Finnish designs, or modified Finnish designs.. and this is a fact, not a widely known as such, but still is.. :)

Its kinda hus-hus.. hmm as only YOU say ;)

No its more likely that Soltam designed those mortars based on their designs, as is widely known and publicly stated and your Finnish company has copied them if they have in fact made them.

Why would it be hush hush….I mean everyone knows the Galil was based on a Finnish design and that is public knowledge that no one in Israel has ever denied, so why would people “cover” this up….what you say doesn’t add up.


Also I am not doubting you (well actually perhaps I am a bit ;) ) but id be curious for you to show me how they are sister companies.

And even if they are sister companies, I find it extremely and highly unlikely that all designs are based on Finnish designs

Listen in truth I don’t care if you are correct, I mean its not a pure national pride thing (hell there are tons of Israeli companies and Israeli designs to show already, so its not like if this was not Israeli, it will effect anything). This is simply to verify if what your saying is its true, which as of now, I haven’t seen anything to verify your claims.

Shalom :D

[Uninen]

IDFM203,

Just belive me on this..

--

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/m-68.htm

The only Israeli tractor drawn artillery manufacturer is the Soltam firm which seems it, is closely related to the Finnish company Tampella.

http://inter2.tampere.fi/tehdas/akseli/tuotteet/aseet.htm

keväällä 1950 Tampella aloitti aseiden tuotekehitys- ja valmistusyhteistyön israelilaisten kanssa. Yhteisyrityksen nimeksi tuli Soltam Ltd.

I will translate:

In spring of 1950 Tampella started weapons R&D and manufacturing cooperation with Israelis. The Join business was named Soltam Ltd.

(note: Tampella made Soltam..) :)

http://www.ciar.org/ttk/mbt/article/article.long-range-mortars.5cfb6f9f.0112312236.1302bbda@posting.google.com.txt

As the Finns take their defence VERY seriously, I'd think that if they
say they get 9km then they do. BTW, in its previous incarnation as
Tampella this Finnish company had very close links with Soltam of
Israel.

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/artillery/mortars/soltam_81mm/Mortar_81mm.html

As with the 60 mm versions, the intention with the 81 mm Mortars made by Soltam Systems is to provide variations in design to suit customer requirements.
The Mortars are of a conventional pattern, based on the original Finnish Tampella designs and using as many common items as possible.

--

Do you belive me now? ;)

[IDFM203]

Ok good work there ;)

All’s fair, you made your case. I can respect that :D

However what you said “all mortars and field guns they build are on Finnish designs, or modified Finnish designs” and that is simply not true!!

Listen yes in the early years of the modern Jewish sate, yes some companies copied other designs, but it has involved since then and now makes most or a lot of its own designs.

Soltam perhaps “borrowed” other designs at first or modified them, but it makes a lot of different types of mortars, ammunition, and different types of artillery systems and they have designed some as well.(hell check their website, their product list is long and impressive :D )

Also a modified weapon is also a design aspect ;)

Also joining Soltem means exactly what it says and not that a company made another company!!

P.S. just curious, in your view, did Soltam in the 50’s also copy Finnish pots and pans designs? ;) :D

Shalom :D

[el_kab0ng]

http://www.reject.org/pr0ject/110103/ba.jpg

That's me, and that's Israeli body armor. Type III by itself, type IV with plates.

The only other photos of that same vest in use are by Israeli Police or Press.

Not sure if that helps you answer your question or not, but it's relevant nonetheless.

[Uninen]

IDFM203,

I said basicly all.. not all.. and i didnt accuse you or SOLTAM of stealing or copying anything.. you silly.. like i posted.. they work together and can be considered also as same business.. they help each others.. :)

But Soltam started with our help.. just like with Galil.. but unlike with Galil.. they have cooperated ever since!

Shalom! :D

[el_kab0ng]

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/pictures/Raids/Ramallah290302/080.jpg

The camera man is wearing the same vest as I have.

[IDFM203]

IDFM203,

I said basicly all.. not all.. big difference :roll: ;)

Anyways its not even basically all!!

Soltam makes and designs and modifies tons of its own military (as well as pots and pans :lol: ) products as well.


and i didnt accuse you or SOLTAM of stealing or copying anything..I never said that you did accuse me or Saltom of that.

you silly.. Believe me buddy, I am not any more silly then you have been in this thread ;)


like i posted.. they work together and can be considered also as same business.. they help each others.. :) yes.........that’s a lot different then how you put it before, that one company made another one, which is false.


But Soltam started with our help.. just like with Galil.. but unlike with Galil.. they have cooperated ever since! Well IMI has branched out big time into a lot of other fields and in a lot of other types of weapons designs, then just its improved and modified (Galil) Finnish version of the AK, that it made way back then.

Anyway’s in a serious way, I am curious to know more about this.. What is the "relationship" now between Soltam and the Finnish company...they still work together?

Shalom :D

[George W. Bush]

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/pictures/Raids/Ramallah290302/080.jpg

The camera man is wearing the same vest as I have.

Oh my G-d! What is this? Bring a goyim reporter to work day? I couldn't imagine putting up with those goyisher kvetches. Oy vey.

[mustamato]

The infantry had trained with MILES and also they had body armor that could stop AK-47 7.62mm rounds.

Which body armour is this? It´s not the PASGT flak/Interceptor atleast.

Personally I think "MILES" is good, the new generation is way more realistic
than the old ones, they can be used "ballistically" and so forth. The system
has of course some obvious flaws, but it´s still better than nothing, when
getting killed a couple of times, you learn that you must keep your head
down properly and so forth. It´s better to learn that with MILES than with
a real enemy bullet. I guess it´s the same thing with FX, and there it even
hurts as hell if you get hit in the forehead :)

Also this AT-4 vs tank issue. How this in peace-time could be trained realistically
without equipment like MILES is beyond me, it´s not like you actually could
blow your own buddies up in simulated combat (in which I by the way
managed to kill a APC ones with a AT-4, first and only simulated combat
tank kill for me, textbook, perhaps 70 meters, side-hit).

[Uninen]

Anyway?s in a serious way, I am curious to know more about this.. What is the "relationship" now between Soltam and the Finnish company...they still work together?

Shalom :D

Theres not much info around there, as most things that are related to these kinds of things are secrets in Finland, but i suspect that the orginal deal from 1950 stands.. and the do R&D and Manufacturing together..

Hmm.. actually:

http://guns.connect.fi/gow/QA14.html

A miniature mortar, shooting 47 mm hand grenades equipped with 8 seconds time fuze was really designed in Finland, probably by TAMPELLA Oy, a famous producer of mortars and artillery pieces. (TAMPELLA had a plant known as "SOLTAM" in Israel, when export licences of military firearms were hard to get in Finland during the "Hippie Era", due to the noisy protests of "peace movement", which was never grown strong but it was very noisy, supported by Soviet communists and international "new leftist" movement, born in USA during and after the Viet-Nam conflict).

IDFM203,

Know what why not cut the bull and give me info from some Israeli site? As im sure that they provide the full facts..

But as of now..

Tampella actually not only founded but also owned SOLTAM From 1950 at least to 1970+.. :)

[IDFM203]

IDFM203,

Know what why not cut the bull and give me info from some Israeli site? As im sure that they provide the full facts.. Hey first of all relax….chill………..you seem to get all worked up here……and you say I am silly ;) …..haha :lol:

Anyways listen; again I don’t know that much about Soltam. I mean there are a lot bigger Israeli military companies out there other then Soltam (which I have more knowledge about).

I did a little research and I couldn’t find much anywhere else that your company founded Soltam. I found that they have links and yes as you showed me that before. I accepted that.

What I don’t accept is that they design all of Soltam products for they don’t and Soltam has come out with a lot of new products since the 50 and 60’s

I also couldnt find anything about any working relationship since a while back. I am not saying that it doesn’t exist but there isn’t much that says it does now.

As before when I doubted any relationship and you showed me that there was, I did stand corrected and I am not close minded. So calm down and simply show me info on what I am saying and I am always willing to listen to them.

Shalom to you :D

[Uninen]

:D I see that now, actually i did see it already before.. your just running me around.. ;) what i have said has been true, theres nothing more to it.. :) But for now, i shall let this go.. as due secret nature of the whole arrangement, theres not whole lot public facts to be found.. i do know what i know, and thats that.. :)

Maybe youll also learn some day.. or maybe, you actually already do know.. ;)

Btw,

I dont know from where did you get that silly idea that im all worked up about the matter.. :| Anyways, sorry for going off topic.. :)

Off you go, back to the Miles and Israeli body armor.. ;)

[IDFM203]

haha its good that you clamed down ;) :lol: :D

Yes you know all sorts of secrets that none of us know ;) .....(or perhaps I do know as you like to think ;) )

Anyways there is no need to apologize; we were both off topic and silly here ;)
(at least is was off topic on military matters and not on some political flame war that others can make it into)


As for MILES and Israeli body Armour, I think there is nothing more to say (unless others ask questions)....

I guess we can talk about the Israeli spike (that you refer to as the Euro spike ;) ) that you guys have and other Israeli arms that are in the Finnish army that is hus hus ;) :D

Shalom :D

[Uninen]

Us having SPIKE isnt a "hus, hus".. i think.. but for some funny reason, you just cant find anything about it online.. ;)

At least not by using search engines.. :)

[IDFM203]

Us having SPIKE isnt a "hus, hus".. i think.. but for some funny reason, you just cant find anything about it online.. ;)

At least not by using search engines.. :) NO I am not talking about the Israeli spike in the Finnish army. For actually yes it is public knowledge and its not that hus hus…..hell your fellow countryman found links to it (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6843&highlight=euro+spike) ;) :D

No what I am talking about is other Israeli military products that are in your military that are hus hus ;)

Shalom :D

[Uninen]

IDFM203,

What are those? Please tell? :)

[IDFM203]

IDFM203,

What are those? Please tell? :)Well if I tell you then it wouldn’t be hus hus now ;)

There is a reason why we use those words ;)

Anyways a quick thing that’s a bit of public info, are some of the UAV's and some of the technology in them that you have ;)

There is more but that’s all for now ;)

Shalom :D

[Uninen]

Oh yeah.. the Ranger RPV.. :)

And if this "Umkhonto-IR" (From South Africa..) is version of that Israeli "Barak?" missile, then we also have that.. ;)