Irish Police Seize Trove of Explosives [Archive]

Uncle Sam

02-13-2004, 09:39 PM

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20040214/D80MNHC80.html

DUBLIN, Ireland (AP) - Irish anti-terrorist police swooped on a suburban Limerick house Friday and seized a trove of explosives and detonators that they linked to Irish Republican Army dissidents.

Police also said they arrested a 34-year-old man at the property in the Dooradoyle section of Limerick, 130 miles southwest of Dublin, on suspicion of possessing the weaponry. The commercially manufactured explosives were found in cases in a van outside the property and in a garden shed in the house's back yard.

Police did not say the amount of explosives, nor did they name the dissident group.

Surrounding houses were evacuated as an Irish army bomb squad inspected the explosives to ensure they posed no risk of detonating.

IRA dissidents opposed to the outlawed group's 1997 cease-fire continue to plan occasional attacks in Northern Ireland, a British territory. The most recent attack there came Feb. 4, when police found a ****y-trap bomb hidden inside a trash can outside the homes of British army families in Ballykelly, Northern Ireland.

The dissidents - organized loosely into two small groups called the Real IRA and Continuity IRA - last claimed a life in August 2002, when a Protestant construction worker was killed by a ****y-trap bomb hidden inside a lunchbox in Londonderry, the province's second-largest city.

The Real IRA also claimed responsibility for the deadliest terror strike in Northern Ireland history: the August 1998 car bombing of the town of Omagh that killed 29 people and wounded more than 300.

Tommy Gunn

02-14-2004, 12:45 AM

I am of Irish ancestry and was curious about 'the troubles' over there and found this IRA forum. These guys are communists POS and I hope they all get rounded up and hanged.

http://fiannaeireann.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=2

martinexsquaddie

02-14-2004, 04:18 AM

well anybody who truely understands and has a workable solution to the troubles Doe'snt understand the problem :(
the IRA tried to force the british army out of ulster at there maximum strength they had under a 1000 gunmen against 30,0000+ so that was never going to happen. no matter how much guinness you drink and songs you sing those sort of odds can't be beat.
plus the majority of the NORTH actually want to remain British so trying to force a political change on the majority of the population tends to defeat mao's views on revolution.
in 1974 the uk goverment offered peace talks unfortunatly the IRA leadership thought the uk were offering to surrender :roll:
fast forward nearly 30 years same deal basis of good friday agreement :(
load of bull**** on both sides holding things up
Sein fein IRA can't admit they lost the war and the countless deaths been for bugger all. plus they don't want all there now unemployed gunmen joining some offshoot and carrying on the battle. they still want a united ireland and to screw as many concessions out of westminister.
the loyalist protestant side feel they been sold a pup terrorists are out of jail violence has decreased massivily but the IRA are still out there and there leadership is in goverment. everybody knows the IRa gould hand in 100 tons of arms and have a nother 100 tons in a weeks timeall in all bit of a bog ideas to no 10
knighthood in it for anyone who can solve it :(

marktigger

02-14-2004, 07:38 AM

Having lived under the good friday agreement since it was voted in it has become apparant that effectivly it was a surrender to the IRA. Democratic elections are not recognised because the population came up with the wrong result . Even if the assembley had been allowed to sit with the de hont system for selecting ministers its a powersharing government with the loosing parties from an election getting ministerial protfolios so what is the point of having elections in the first place. The centre ground has disappeared and Northern Ireland is more polarised than ever.
The most effective police service in the UK has been irreprebly damaged morale is non existant and many officers are waiting to hear what their redundancy package will be so they can leave. The New police service is nowhere near as professional than the RUC and has major Discipline problems with the recruiting handeled by an outside agencey it is being discovered people with criminal records are being recruited when they are in training. The pressure is one for 50/50 recruiting ie 50%Catholic and 50%Protestant and others yet the population is 45%catholic and 55%protestant. And if you tried to recruit for a civilian company like that the equality comission would sue. And guess what the crime rate is rocketing.
Yet republicans get conscession after concession and what do we get in return decomissioning hasn't happened. The IRA are still active they have been caught targetting, gathering intelligence , Importing arms, training and Giving Knee cappings, punnishment beatings and exiling people who offend them.
So I'm not surprised that the Irish Police have discovered bombmaking equipment in the republic because the terrorist orginisations 'haven't gone away' and until they are removed from the equation there will be no chance of any elected government working in Northern Ireland.
And then there is the waste of £155,000,000 on an enquirey that unless it matches the republican version of events over bloody sunday will be a waste of time.

Argyll

02-14-2004, 09:28 AM

Mark Tigger how can you say that the RUC were one of the best police forces in the UK?
Can you name another Police Force anywhere else in the rest of the UK or all of the Western world where the make up of that police force is almost 95% of one side of the population?
The RUC had almost no respect within the 45% of the nationalist community within Northern Ireland this ensured that it had to be replaced.
Yes you are right in the fact that former terrorists should not be allowed to sit on the policing board but the same is true that many terrorists served in the RUC and many orangemen.
That would be the same as a Police Officer in Alabama having membership to the KKK or mainland British Police to Comabat 18.
I think you should do some research before you come back on this board spreading crap again.
Whatever the cost of the Saville inquiry it is totally justified, the truth is that 13 British civilians were gunned down on Bloody Sunday and the victims deserve justice. If this happened in any other part of the UK there would be total outrage and I hope when the final findings come out that this issue can finally be put to rest.

And what justice was there when the Government let Terrorist Murderers out on the good friday accord,try telling their victims it's for the good!
You want a Western State where 95% of the Force is the same religion? How about Spanish( Catholic)Dutch(Protestant)Israel(Jewish).
Can you tell me what RUC officers were convicted terrorists or vice versa please?

Argyll

02-14-2004, 12:01 PM

Ok Argyll lets go very slow here for you, I said can you tell me any other part of the UK or the Western world where 95% of a Police Force was made up of 55% of the population!
If 55% of the population of Northern Ireland is of Protestant make up then this leaves 45% of the population of Catholic make up, which would make the Police Force very imbalanced.
The same cannot be said for Spain as the Spanish population is almost 100% Catholic therefore is no imbalance.
Israel is almost 80% Jewish so I suspect the make up of the Police Force to be equal to the make up of this statistic.
The Terrorists that both British and Irish Governments released on the basis of the good friday agreement were convicted of their crimes, therefore justice was served, ie: in that they were found guilty of Terrorist crimes. Troops that murdered innocent people on Bloody Sunday were not charged with any crime. Can one honestly say that this was justice?
There have been many RUC officers charged in connection with Terrorism and Terrorist offences in Northern Ireland see for yourself www.relativesforjustice.com

Thats not what you said though is it?
What you said was 45% of the population did not like it,but 95% of it came from the one area ie Protestants,so word your questions better!

Spain is not 100% Catholic either,there are Jews and Muslims there also,same as Holland
There have been Catholics in the RUC/PSNI(Lately)I knew a few who were Catholics,and they were good coppers!
Those released may have been convicted,but a conviction is NOT Justice,serving the sentence is justice,those guys who were guilty of several accounts of murder served a pittance,that is not Justice for the Victims.
Troops from Bloody Sunday were never charged as at that time they had no crimes to answer too!Perhaps the Scott inquiry will redress that,who knows.
Interesting link for the Terror offences,Mark Tigger had alredy painted a similar picture

usa320

02-14-2004, 12:33 PM

woot

Anytime weapons and bombs are taken off the streets its a good thing.

marktigger

02-14-2004, 02:56 PM

the thing I would sugest you go and do a lot of reasearch because if you believe you'll get the truth from the site you listed I would think again.
There were quite a few catholics in the RUC why so few well the IRA murdering policemen in their own homes in front of their families is a big factor that would discourage any one from an area were the IRA is a prodominant force where you and your family live. Northern Ireland is a very closley knit community so walking away from the community you grew up in is a huge step. Adde to that in the areas were many potential police recruits would have come from the republican propaganda machine would have been active from very early age about the police. Added to that is the history of non participation in the functions of state in Northern Ireland by the republican/nationalist community.
Given the numbers in the RUC unfortunatley you are going to get a few bad apples just as any police force has. Including the Garda who coluded with the IRA

The size of the R.U.C. increased to 8500 regular police officers supported by about 5000 full-time and part-time reserve officers, making it the second largest force in the United Kingdom next to the Metropolitan Police in London. The independent direction and control of the R.U.C. is vested in the Chief Constable, who is assisted by two Deputy Chief Constables and nine Assistant Chief Constables. For operational purposes Northern Ireland is divided into 12 Divisions and 39 Sub-Divisions. R.U.C. ranks, duties, conditions of service and pay are generally in line with those in Great Britain.

The difficulty and danger of the R.U.C.'s task of serving the community in the face of terrorist activity is reflected in the number of officers who have received awards for gallantry. Awards since 1969 include 16 George Medals (the highest award for civilian bravery), 103 Queen's Gallantry Medals, 111 Queen's Commendations for Brave Conduct and 69 Queen's Police Medals. In the 25 years between 1969 and 1994 (October) 195 R.U.C. and 101 R.U.C. Reserve members have been killed and over 7000 injured as a result of the security situation in Northern Ireland.

I would say the RUC had a great deal more respect in the nationalist community than you give them credit for. ANd BTW nationalist does not = Catholic.

The RUC did its job with out fear or favour many of its members stood up to the Orange order protests and faced the Backlash of their own community.
The Thing I lived through the troubles in Northern Ireland I saw the RUC at work every day I saw the lies and propaganda put out against them by orginisations that are now dealing drugs and are and were criminal orgnisations. I have seen the type of Justice the Republican movement dispenses with out any accountability or any right of appeal. When they break into a hospital with base ball bats to administer a further dose of their Justice to someone they have already Shot at close quarters through bothe knees. And then scream when the police arrest them and put them through the courts and are then released with huge payouts because of the good of the peace process. You obviously don't know what you are talking about. and are the one talking Crap.
Since the implementation of patton crime has rocketed upwards and so have paramilitary punnishment beatings yet its concession after concession to the paramilitaries. And now the PSNI isn't acceptable either. To the paramilitaries who have caused so much misery in this country no police force is acceptable. Why because they are thugs who want to prey on law abiding citizens and who in any civilised society stop this happening? The Police.

As to the Saville enquirey it has been a spectular waste of money as the result if it doesn't match the families version of events will be rejected by them. And were is the investigations into Bloody Friday, Tbane, shankill road,omagh etc etc.... its . Or the 1600+ unsloved terrorist murders in Northern Ireland. After 20 odd years I doubt wether the saville report will come anywhere near the truth.[/quote]

marktigger

02-14-2004, 07:58 PM

and the GAA allow in members of the security forces?

The THING I think you are beliving to much of the republican myths about colusion. And to much of the smear. Interesting when Special Branch was broken into at Knock the Republicans screamed it was an inside job or it was the British army who did it turn out to be The IRA.

I think the RUC's stance during the Drumcree stand off showed its attitude to the orange order which is a religous order that actually helped get emancipation for the roman catholic population of northern ireland. BTW how many garda are in GAA, Hibernians, etc.

Yes at the start of the troubles the behaviour left alot to be desired but the RUC was a very changed force when it was pattonised from the one in 1969. And the Majority of the officers were like the ones you met highly professional. It is regretable that young Catholics didn't have the guts to join the RUC but then when you have maniac's like the IRA running the areas you come from that is understandable.
The RUC did enforce the Law without fear or favour it followed its orders even when that ment a colission course with the community the majority of its officers came from. There was no 'Green Flu' unlike the Garda who effectivley went on strike. They stood up and enforced the law.
They were used the whole way through the troubles as a political football. But in the end even Father Dennis Fall one of its most outspoken critics recomended to the patten comission there should be no name change the force had earned it.
Patten has destroyed the police it has been cut to far, morale is non existant, The recruitment standards have been lowered and it is the responsibility of an outside agencey which has led to a more than a few howllers. Ms O'loan's office has tried to take control of aspects of policing away from the chief constable and prevent officers from fulfilling their duties. The new recruits know more about human rights than they do about enforcing the law. The see it as their duty to spy on serving officers and with the arrogance of higher education see them selves as superior to men who have been policemen for more years than they have been alive. I have had a few dealings with the new constables and do not think they are anywhere near as professional as their older colleuges. And the much vaunted 50% Catholic: 50%Protestant and others (yes its less than 50% for the protestants) isn't working why? Patten has been enacted? its the PSNI? the concessions have been made? well there is peer pressure for a start and then there is the republican movements refusal to support the new structures. Would sein feins reluctance to support the new policing service happen to be because as a member of the Irish parliment said that they rely on funding from criminal activities? or is it becuse they can't have control of the police service? Or is it they didn't get their final act of humiliation and triumphalism over the Police?

And who is benefitting well the criminals of course look at the BBC NI news pages and you'll see the effect of Patten. Pensioners beaten up in their homes and robbed all forms of crime rising. And the Paramilitaries carring on their little scams like protection rackets, Gambling, smuggling fuel cigarettes Drugs and selling the same on.

So was it worth it I don't think so and the crimonals will soon start looking south especially in isolated rural areas like round the border.

martinexsquaddie

02-15-2004, 02:37 AM

marktigger

02-15-2004, 06:33 AM

the only people who have won over saville are the lawyers. We have heard so much evidence of events from 20 odd years ago I doubt much of it was what actually happened 20 years is a long time and things are forgoten and in this case much myth has been woven into the facts. The Inquirey report will be interesting because I wold sugest unless it matches the nationalist/republican view of what happened it will be rejected by that community and the families. There is doubts already being cast on the evidence given by leading IRA members namley Martin McGuiness. The events of that day were tragic but I'm afraid thats what happens when the army has to do a policing role in a counter terrorist enviroment. People have to make snap decisions and judgements in a fast moving highly stressful enviroment hindsight is a wonderful thing. Mistakes will always happen and the simple answer is if the illegal march had not taken place no one would have been killed.

Boom

02-15-2004, 07:12 AM

the saveille the inquiry is a joke £155 million pounds
thats over £10million for every person killed. slightly excessive and the IRA repersentative managed to dodge any difficult questions :(
its the scottish parliment building of inquirys

Is the Saveille enquiry information gathering excurse or can it issue or recommend criminal prosecution on its conclusion ??

marktigger

02-15-2004, 09:57 AM

And the rule change in the GAA only happned in the last few years and there was a lot of dissent with in the GAA over it. BTW the RUC had Gaelic sports teams and they played the Garda and beat them.
I would sugest that the Police response to the Drumcree protests and the subsequent public order problems should lay to rest the myth that the RUC was influenced by the orange order.
Membership of the orange order isn't as wide spread as you are protraying. And the most militant orangemen i've ever met were Scottish.
The Thing do you actually realise that the orange order is part of the Ulster/Scots culture in the same way as the Hibernians is part of the Irish culture. The Protestant community in Northern Ireland have a culture seperate from Irish gaelic culture part of the over all stratagy of the republican movement is to undermine this culture and supress it. The Protestants of the North are different. They have been the target of one of the most proficient terrorist orginisations in the world in the last 30 years. The nationalists like to portray themselves as the only victims of the troubles but they aren't and there is anger and resentment building up with in the ordinary law abiding community about what is going on. Look at the last assembley election results the country has polarised and unless something major happens the whole agreement will collapse. And this time the ball is firmly in the court of the republicans/nationalists and Irish Government.

We must remember why members of British security Forces were banned because of the famous "Bloody Sunday" incident in 1921 when members of the RIC for runners to the RUC shot and killed innocent supports watching a Sunday Gaelic football match in Croke Park Dublin.

and the RIC were also the fore runners of the Garda as well.

as to prosecutions Not sure of the terms of reference but no doubt the republicans will try and use it to get war crimes inditements against the Paras. And at the same time be demanding that all cases being investigated against the IRA be closed.

johnnysmith

02-15-2004, 10:27 AM

It is pretty clear that the vast majority of Nationalist and Republicans (i.e. those in favour of ending British Rule in Ireland) are now in favour of the Good Friday Agreement. However there is still a small minority who are still opposed to this agreement (it does not lead to a United Ireland). Support for this tiny minority is dwindling every day.

This Gardai (Irish police) operation is an ongoing one which has by in large the support of most, even Sinn Fein (the political wing of the IRA).

The state of Northern Ireland was never set up to be fair. Since its inception in the 1920's, Northern Ireland was designed for a Protestant people. Something akin to South Africa.

The Unionist people (i.e. those in favour of keeping British rule Ireland, mostly Protestant) had a huge say in the governing of the Northern Ireland in the early years. Perhaps if they treated their fellow citizens with equality there would never have been any reason for support of these groups in the first place. However they didn’t, and things were really unfair.

The question must arise, if you have a fair chance of getting a job equally and not dependent on your faith, if you can obtain a house from your local authority with the same chance and your fellow citizen, if you will be represented equally by your local MP (member of Parliament) would you really support violence? These were some of the issues which affected Catholic people in the 1960’s.

These issues weren’t address from 1920 to 1960 (in actual fact things were getting worse) but from 1960 to 1990 thing steadily improved for the average Catholic citizen. It just so happens that there was a massive terrorist campaign against the Unionist people and the British Government in the same period 1960 -1990. So was the British Government going to enforce equality without IRA violence and the 30 years of “troubles” a simply coincidence, or was violence the only measure which the British Government of the day would listen to?

And a point should be noted to Americans, you fought the same enemy to gain your independence. Were you terrorists?

This is not to say that the terrorists/freedom fighters such as the Provisional IRA (Irish Republican Army) was right too kill anyone but equally was to blame was British Army and Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) and the Unionist leaders in charge creating their anti Catholic/anti Irish utopia.

johnnysmith

02-15-2004, 10:35 AM

the saveille the inquiry is a joke £155 million pounds
thats over £10million for every person killed. slightly excessive and the IRA repersentative managed to dodge any difficult questions
its the scottish parliment building of inquirys

Yes it is a complete joke, but why didn’t they have a proper inquiry back then in the first place. Come to think of it, deploying a parachute regiment to a civilian area isn’t of sound political thinking either, since the British Army were going to win anyway. But as you have pointed out the North of Ireland is a mess which no one can solve :cantbeli:

marktigger

02-15-2004, 11:24 AM

The problem has now come that the Unionist community has lost faith in the agreement and its constant one sided apeasment of the republicans.
Add into that the perception now that the only victims that matter were Nationalist/Republican and the result of the recent assembley elections could well have been predicted.

There were factories in Belfast in which you had to be Catholic to work so discrimination worked both ways. and the myth about public housing was looked at by one of the English universities in the 1990's. By examination of public housing records they showed that Catholics had a better chance of getting public housing than protestants.
There are alot of myths that the nationalists now believe are facts. Yes there was a degree of discrimination but it isn't a black as it was painted.

The situation still remains that the paramilitaries are hold a gun to the head of democracy and basically saying they want to carry out their criminal enterprises without interference from the police. Why was the call for reform also echoed by the PUP and UDP as well as Sein Fein because both sets of paramilitaries effectivley are criminal gangs who make their money from drugs,smuggling,protection rackets etc and having an effective police force was bad for buisness. It is now interesting that when Sein Fein have the possibility of good election results in the Irish Republic and the probability of holding the balance of power in the Dial that Irish politicans are now saying they don't want to have to sit with them and that they are linked to criminal and terrorist orginisations.

In the 1920's there were proposals made by lord middleton to create a 32 county ireland and they were accepted by unionist's who rejected them the nationalists. The Irish govenrment could If it had wanted to have persuaded unionists to join the Irish republic at any time from 1923 but they didn't they chose not to and to support aggitation by the nationalist commnity.

BTW look at the influence of the Irish Catholic Church on the state of Ireland from 1923 to the 1980's.

Sectarian riots have been a fact of history in Belfast and Londonderry since the 18th century. In 1969 it did get totally out of hand to a point were the regular police force couldn't cope and had to call in the special constabulary who unfortunatley were not the most professional force in history. The offical IRA was given arms by the Irish Government to defend Catholic areas(spotlight documentry) and plans for an invasion of Northern Ireland were well advanced. When the British army arrived. Then the Provisional IRA saw the opportunity to push its stratgey for a 32 county 1 party socalist state and began their campaign of terror.
The good friday agreement was a poor attempt to solve the problem. It fudged to many issued and was so ambiguos in its language that it can be interpreted any number of ways. But yes republicans see it as a good thing ad now believe one more push and they'll get their united Ireland. It gave to much to the terrorists who were released from prison yet still retained their weapons and explosives. Where is the Justice for the victims of the IRA?
Yes the RUC needed to be brough back to 'normal' policing from the anti terrorist slan it had before but it needed to be done in a sensitive manner. The Patten comission was a joke I attended a meeting of it and you could see the panel wern't interested in listening to people from protestant/unionist areas. The whole report was another white wash the proposals were put forward for the PSNI were and are unworkable as is being shown crime in northern ireland is rising.
The reports recomendations have been implemented in an insensitive manner that has led many police to feel they are the criminals. johnnysmith you talked about discrimination over jobs well look at the policy for recutment in the PSNI 50% of recruits must be Catholic and the other 50% is to be made up of other religous groups ie protestant,Jewish,Agnostic,Muslim .

marktigger

02-15-2004, 11:39 AM

Johnnysmith the north of Ireland is Donegal. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom

BTW they did hold an enquirey at the time called the wigery tribunral which was rejected by the Families. As will the saville report if it doesn't produce the 'right' answer.

johnnysmith

02-15-2004, 12:33 PM

Johnnysmith the north of Ireland is Donegal. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom Your observation,although pedantic, is correct!

.. they did hold an enquirey at the time called the wigery tribunral which was rejected by the Families. As will the saville report if it doesn't produce the 'right' answer.

Yes they did, however it lacked creditability. The saville report should be accepted by most people since its independent and thorough. The British government should have done Wigery properly and stop giving the provos a reason to bomb etc.

The problem has now come that the Unionist community has lost faith in the agreement and its constant one sided apeasment of the republicans.

Letting former terrorists out on the street is never going to cheer anyone up. However unpalatable it is, its part of the peace process. I can remember Lee Clegg getting out, convicted of continuing to fire at joyriders when they drove through his checkpoint (he should have only fired at oncoming threats and the checkpoint location was questionable).So it cuts both ways.

Regarding the Unionist community. Some of their concerns are valid, however their solution is the 1950's, that was it, everything was 'right'. One only has to look back recently when the conseratives were in power and it was the UUP (Ulster Unionist Party) that held the balance. They suffer from some sort of complex and shouldnt be allowed to hold power on their own.

Yes there were some factories that ONLY CATHOLICS WERE ALLOWED, but i dont buy into your posts about things being in catholic's favour regarding housing etc, thats totally off the ball.

The offical IRA was given arms by the Irish Government to defend Catholic areas(spotlight documentry) and plans for an invasion of Northern Ireland were well advanced. When the British army arrived.

Yes, giving arms to the provos was wrong. But one can point to the collusion between the British Army/RUC and the loyalist paramilitaries. Bombings in the Republic of Ireland.

However there was nothing wrong with the contingency planning by the Irish government. Britain didnt seem to care about Northern ireland and the Irish Government rightly had to ensure the stability of its own country.

Regarding policing, if its 50% Catholic and 50% everyone else well thats wrong but Patten did drawn it up.

The british government should have Administered Northern ireland properly from day one, maybe then there wouldnt have been 30 years of conflict.

To be honest I dont give a damn about the place, who gets out of prison, who has to pay lawyer fees, who gets locked up, what the composition of the police force is etc..... as long as the violence have stopped

marktigger

02-15-2004, 01:02 PM

It's not only that release of prisoners there is the lack of transparency in decomissioning. the contuing level of paramilitary activity and the funding of various prisoners groups, released prisoners getting compensation to start new lives far in excess of compensation paid to their victims and redundancy payments for police officers. The push to allow released prisoners to join the police or make descisions concerning policing . The allocation of the ombudsman's post to the partner of an SDLP councillor. The alocation of funding for job creation. And when anything about victims comes up its about the dead Nationalists as if the dead members of the security forces and protestants don't count.
Actually the unionists solution wasn't a return to the 1950's. The UUP is now not the preominant force in Unionism it is Now the DUP. And I would say if it comes down to it at the next general election they will hold the Balance of power at westminster.
The reasearch on Housing was put to a prominant former civil rights leader on 'talk back' on BBC NI and his reaction was similar to yours don't let facts get n the way of a good myth.
And what proof do you have of offical colusion between the security forces and the Loyalist paramilitaries over the Dublin and monaghon bombings. thei report the irish govenrment released recently showed no evidence of such colusion which is why the families rejected it.
The whole Patten report was total rubbish and should never have been accepted.

johnnysmith

02-15-2004, 02:06 PM

MARK.TIGGER, some aspects of your posts are not correct.

The british government was invovled in the Monaghan (please get your spelling corrected) and Dublin bombings, the loyalists simply didnt have that capability and are still working on pipe bombs.

Actually the unionists solution wasn't a return to the 1950's. There was never much room for compromise until a solution was forced on them. Now they voted in even a more hard core anti agreement party, the DUP which is on the same low level as Sinn Fein. For years the mantra was a security solution. How stupid was that!

The whole Patten report was total rubbish and should never have been accepted. what is your alternative?

the contuing level of paramilitary activity and the funding of various prisoners groups, released prisoners getting compensation to start new lives far in excess of compensation paid to their victims and redundancy payments for police officers

Well why cant your government get its finger out and enforce law and order? Your own government set up Northern Ireland, it set up the RUC, set up PSNI etc etc, its your country and your posting on this board complaining about everything...

Who actual gives a damn about the stupid internal problems of the U.K.

martinexsquaddie

02-15-2004, 02:45 PM

the Dublin goverment could'nt prove there was a link between the UK goverment and the dublin bombings.
but then why bother about facts you'd much rather read the "fact" I used to go out on patrol scalping catholic babies :(
you have proven to be an idiot kindly FOD

Haiw

02-15-2004, 03:46 PM

[quote="Argyll"]You want a Western State where 95% of the Force is the same religion? How about Spanish( Catholic)Dutch(Protestant)Israel(Jewish).[quote]
I don't know the exact statistics of religion in the Netherlands, but whatever they are, they're propably crap. Most of the people here are only 'statistically' religious... So the majority is just non-religious.

marktigger

02-16-2004, 06:16 AM

The british government was invovled in the Monaghan (please get your spelling corrected) and Dublin bombings, the loyalists simply didnt have that capability and are still working on pipe bombs.

The report by the Iris government shows no evidence of British involvment. But then Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

There was never much room for compromise until a solution was forced on them. Now they voted in even a more hard core anti agreement party, the DUP which is on the same low level as Sinn Fein. For years the mantra was a security solution. How stupid was that!

I think you have got the right word Forced. Northern Ireland is ment to be a democracy and the ****ciples of the talks were consent by all parties which is why the DUP walked out. The Clinton administration were putting pressure on Trimble to accept, so where the British govt and so where the Irish Govt why well Clinton and Blair both want their place in history. Blair before the referendum made promises in writing to trimble re Sein Fein being allowed in the assembley before decomissioning which of course he couldn't deliver on. The DUP said this at the time that Blairs promises were not worth the paper they were written on. The Govt spin machine went into overdrive to discredit the DUP and the NO campaign in the run up to the referendum so there was a yes vote. and then after it was accepted Blair then said well the promises aren't in the agreement so sorry. The first assembley elected was a very balanced one. Then when it came to delivery and the Terrorists got concession after concession and delivered nothing. The level of paramilitary activity rose not attacks but int gathering punnishment beatings and yet the government turned a blind eye. Sein Fein orchestrated coommunity disputes in North and east belfast. The police were reformed but Sein Fein still refused to acept policing. Then the IRA were caught spying on the First ministers office and the government did its usual hand wringing so the assembley collapsed.

Now unfortunatley the DUP had predicted much of what happened.

And in the mean time unionist disolusion with the agreement was growing but was ignored by the Governments. And the shock on the part of the secretary of state and his team was hilarious.
Why was the DUP returned as the majority unionist party. Well I would say that at every turn the UUP was shown not to have the guts to fight their corner and protect the intrests of their voters. The DUP hopefully will. And what is actually wrong with being anti an agreement that hasn't worked?

The Patten report was started with preconceived Ideas. A review of policing should have been carried out by the Home Office.
It should have been completley independent and made up of Police officers from the UK and Ireland and no political interference.
The Name should have been left alone. The recruitment should have been on merit alone with no questioning on religous back ground. The control should be exactly the same as any police force in the rest of the UK. If independent oversight was required it should be carried out by the Home office.

The government won't enforce the law because it is scared of alienating the paramilitaries and 'jepordising the peace process' ie it doesn't want the IRA palnting bombs in England. But they can do what they want in Northern Ireland.

well one little problem now is the IRA are selling their terrorist skills across the world. The spanish have had bombs in the Basque region that bear all the hallmarks of IRA operations. FARQ in columbia made attacks that bear all the hallmarks of IRA ops and then some Irishmen with interesting histories were caught in Columbia. Then there are the modified MK 7 mortars that took out an Israeli tank on the west bank. And the Numerous arms deals the IRA were doing in FRY including trying to acquire thermobarrack weapons.

Who actually cares what happens in Northern Ireland well the 3 million+ people who live there. And if the British defence cuts go through and the army has to go into NI again to support the police then British Troops and equipment will have to be withdrawn from Iraq and Afganistan.

marktigger

02-16-2004, 07:33 AM

johnnysmith would you like this going on in your country/community?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3472963.stm

Royal

02-18-2004, 05:31 AM

The saville report should be accepted by most people since its independent and thorough.

Indepenant and thorough, which would of course explain why Martin McGuiness refused to explain what he was doing with a Thompson SMG on the day, where he went, and who he was with.

Yeah, that's unbiassed :cantbeli:

I can remember Lee Clegg getting out, convicted of continuing to fire at joyriders when they drove through his checkpoint (he should have only fired at oncoming threats and the checkpoint location was questionable).So it cuts both ways.

Lee Clegg was released because he was aquited on appeal.

Sabre

02-18-2004, 07:25 AM

£155 million is a farce.

I am very sorry for those innocents who were killed on that day, but we have already had an inquiry into the shootings and the Para's were absolved of blame.

The soldiers may have made a mistake, but until you have been fired at in anger you can't say how you would react. For young soldiers fresh into NI, faced with an illegal march and substantial aggression, and believing that they have come under fire there are very few options. One of my mates who spent time there commented that, out on a friday night with youths throwing petrol bombs and bricks "The army can do two things...nothing, or shoot them".

On this occasion they may have made the wrong choice under extreme pressure: shoot, and maybe kill innocent people, or don't shoot and perhaps get killed yourself. How can you say what you would do?

As far as the money goes, what a waste. I would rather just give the £10 million to each of the families. That would make a greater difference in real terms.