Iraq: France no longer in a hurry to see Americans leave

[roland]

http://www.lefigaro.fr/dossiers/v34/header/logo_fr.gif



Iraq: France no longer in a hurry to see Americans leave

by Aain Barluet
[14 décembre 2005]

After being known for its opposition to the war, France is today rather in favour of US troops remaining in Iraq until the situation stabilizes. As the Iraqi elections draw close, the tone has been set by Dominique de Villepin. When asked last week by the US broadcaster CNN about the need for the Americans to set a timetable for withdrawal, the prime minister argued against haste. "The real timetable concerns the Iraqi situation," replied the prime minister. "We must avoid chaos in Iraq at all cost as that would clearly be disastrous for the entire region," added the government leader.

Last month Paris was careful not to react when Washington, praising the progress made by the Iraqi Army, spoke, without giving a specific timetable, of reducing its military presence next year (around 160,000 men at present). But this reserve was before the plans to repatriate troops at which US strategists have since been looking. "Since the voting of UN Resolution 1546 on the transfer of sovereignty, on 8 June 2004, we have refrained from making any comment," they say in Paris. "We have had our differences on the means employed in Iraq, we are not going to comment on the consequences." During the same period, the withdrawal of Spanish troops from Iraq following the Madrid attacks did not meet with any official welcome. The reason France is not very keen on demanding the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq is that it is aware of the threats hanging over the country and the region. Regarding the former aspect, "the division of Iraq would be a genuine nightmare for the region," stressed Dominique de Villepin on CNN.


Worrying prospects

Faced with these worrying prospects, tomorrow's general elections are considered to be an important stage towards restoring Baghdad's full sovereignty and its security. The grim regional context, in terms of relations between Iraq and Syria, is also cause for Paris to fear a hasty departure by the Americans. Hence the stress placed - and by Jacques Chirac in particular - on the need for Iraq to integrate into its environment. It is necessary to "be sure that all the countries in the region are working together to achieve progress," said Dominique de Villepin.

Terrorism and its dissemination from Iraq are also a major concern. The attacks in Amman, on 9 November, confirmed the importance of Iraqi training "bases" in exporting terrorism. Seen from Paris, the US presence has not reduced the terrorist threat in the least. The link between local activists and Al-Qa'idah networks - wrongly evoked by Washington in 2003 as a reason for going to war - has since materialized. Revelations regarding secret CIA prisons and the transfer of prisoners through European airports have cast new shadows over the anti-terrorist campaign waged by the Americans. But the weak official reaction to these practices is notable, both in France, which is admittedly only marginally concerned by these transits, and in Germany.

In Paris they say they 'have not changed their thinking" regarding a future US withdrawal that, they stress, is above all a matter to be decided by the Iraqis and that must consequently be accompanied by developments in the political process. France, they stress, successfully appealed, at the beginning of November at the time of renewal of Resolution 1546, for a clause for a meeting next June. Between now and then, and no doubt also beyond, "a great deal of progress remains to be made," as Dominique de Villepin said.


http://www.lefigaro.fr/english/20051214.FIG0265.html?031415

[budgie]

You break it, you own it

[thibaud]

Irak ....a French victory?

[keimo lantio]

Well, after US troops leave, we will see "Iran Deux" rise its head.

[Olybrius]

but they always make the opposite of what Paris wishes

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Not to fan the flames, but why would anybody concern themselves with what France thinks of US strategy in Iraq? That horse has left the barn. They relegated themselves to the sidelines where all they're left with is issuing statements. It's all very statesmanlike, and I'm sure de Villepin was wearing a snappy suit, but it's all rather inconsequential.

[Olybrius]

Not to fan the flames, but why would anybody concern themselves with what France thinks of US strategy in Iraq? That horse has left the barn. They relegated themselves to the sidelines where all they're left with is issuing statements. It's all very statesmanlike, and I'm sure de Villepin was wearing a snappy suit, but it's all rather inconsequential.

lol , not to fan the flames , but tell that to your hysterical fellow citizens who are always whining about France since 2003 ;)

[ed316]

lol , not to fan the flames , but tell that to your hysterical fellow citizens who are always whining about France since 2003 ;)

we don't whine about France, we just don't like you ;)

[stephane from Paris]

because US acts here had and have concequences everywhere including in France.
Now that bad choice was choosen we have to be carrefull at the situation and to look at the future of this zone: hopes to don't see a new Iran (shiit zone) or a new 70's Lebanon.

[BlackRain]

because US acts here had and have concequences everywhere including in France.
Now that bad choice was choosen we have to be carrefull at the situation and to look at the future of this zone: hopes to don't see a new Iran (shiit zone) or a new 70's Lebanon.

Why should the affairs of Iraq concern you now?

We are establishing a democracy in Iraq to sow freedom while you actively tried to prevent it.

First it is an 'illegal war' and now you don't want us to leave?

[panzerjager]

I think this is good news. Villepin is acting smarter than the U.S. left.

[etlamatey]

we don't whine about France, we just don't like you ;)

Correction. We like you, but differ with you on the idea of how important a role garlic and armpit hair should play in society. Also, we no longer eat Fr*** fries.

Hey mods! Why wont the F word show??? p-)

[Olybrius]

....we just don't like you ;)

The opposite would worry us ;)

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0930/p01s04-woeu.html

[ed316]

France's European identity is central to its popularity, suggests Dr. Kull, of PIPA. "France is most associated with the European Union, which has an even more positive rating than France," he says. "The EU is seen as using soft power and diplomacy, drawing other countries towards it, while the US uses more hard power and direct pressure, imposing its will."
Though France is still a medium world power, with a UN Security Council seat, a nuclear weapon and a worldwide network of alliances, says Vedrine, "and though France is often pretentious and grandiloquent, she is not threatening."


Sometimes it's better to be feared then loved. Soft diplomacy in a world full of lions

[etlamatey]

Sometimes it's better to be feared then loved. Soft diplomacy in a world full of lions

Things that make us feared are also the things that lead to 9/11.

Its OK to be feared by aggressors on our own land, but to go into someone elses home and be feared is bullying.

[ed316]

Things that make us feared are also the things that lead to 9/11.

Its OK to be feared by aggressors on our own land, but to go into someone elses home and be feared is bullying.

Bullying is a two way street. We do it with economy and Military. the less powerful do it behind the cloak of religion

[Weasel]

The opposite would worry us ;)
Good one. roflroflrofl

[stephane from Paris]

Why should the affairs of Iraq concern you now?

We are establishing a democracy in Iraq to sow freedom while you actively tried to prevent it.

First it is an 'illegal war' and now you don't want us to leave?


Not strange that i'm not surprise by what you says!
Illegal war it was, but it wasn't from very far the main interrest of the opposition which is that OIF put the fire in muslim world, give more supporters to integrists and give the high risk to have a new Iran or a Lebanon in this higgly sensible part of the planet! Not the best way to win against integrism. And since France is under islamic terrorism menace since more than 20 years and still being, the current situation IS OUR PROBLEM TOO.
Now we have politically to act against a new Iran in Irak , difficult to understand? If US leave now it will be civil war for sure.
OIF was an historical error (Powell admit it him) for win against Terror but now the works has to be finish.

[BlackRain]

Not strange that i'm not surprise by what you says!
Illegal war it was, but it wasn't from very far the main interrest of the opposition which is that OIF put the fire in muslim world, give more supporters to integrists and give the high risk to have a new Iran or a Lebanon in this higgly sensible part of the planet! Not the best way to win against integrism. And since France is under islamic terrorism menace since more than 20 years and still being, the current situation IS OUR PROBLEM TOO.
Now we have politically to act against a new Iran in Irak , difficult to understand? If US leave now it will be civil war for sure.
OIF was an historical error (Powell admit it him) for win against Terror but now the works has to be finish.


I have a difficult time understand you post but this gem was funny.


Now we have politically to act against a new Iran in Irak , difficult to understand?

How is France acting against Iran currently other by ignoring its nuclear weapons program and being Iran's largest trading partner?

Empty words.

[fantassin]

After having managed to reign in his instincts for a couple of months, the usual French bashing BR is back.

Some people never grow up....

[etlamatey]

Bullying is a two way street. We do it with economy and Military. the less powerful do it behind the cloak of religion

True. And none should be endorsed.

[BlackRain]

After having managed to reign in his instincts for a couple of months, the usual French bashing BR is back.

Some people never grow up....

I have no quarrel with you. History will show who was on the right side of this debate.

[etlamatey]

I have no quarrel with you. History will show who was on the right side of this debate.

OMG

BR and Fantassin
Went up a Hill
To fetch a pail of Glo-ry
Fantassin fell Down
And broke his Crown
And BR came tumbling After

History is cyclic
History is a "do" loop
It will vidicate both of you
At some time or the o-ther

(is there any such thing as bad reps for lousy song-writing?)

[Laworkerbee]

This is entertaining and funny on these boards but the next ****er who makes a crack at me while I'm enjoying some Perrier and Lime on the street is going to get his face smashed in.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I think this is good news. Villepin is acting smarter than the U.S. left.

Oh I agree completely with that. Of course I'm glad that hes' making responsible, positive statements - which is more than you can say about 90% of the brain dead flotsam that constitutes the left in the US. I'm not complaining mind you, just commenting on the fact that somehow French approval (of sorts) is supposed to mean something now (as in "we're not bad any more, now that the French say we're ok). Remember, there was a reason that most of us left Europe.


Olybrius

Originally Posted by ed316
....we just don't like you

The opposite would worry us

heh heh yes, France would seem to be the international equivalent of the girl in High School yearbook who gets her picture taken the most because she knows all they guys on the yearbook committee really well. Check back with us in 5 years when she's got 5 kids by 3 different guys and is living in a double wide :lol:


I kid I kid. I kid because I love.

[roland]

Why should the affairs of Iraq concern you now?

We are establishing a democracy in Iraq to sow freedom while you actively tried to prevent it.

First it is an 'illegal war' and now you don't want us to leave?

Let me explain you with simple words: it's NOT France interest the US run out of Iraq like cowards leaving a giant Wahabby training camp behind.
Get it ?

[BlackRain]

Let me explain you with simple words: it's NOT France interest the US run out of Iraq like cowards leaving a giant Wahabby training camp behind.
Get it ?


Cowards? From a French Man no less... :roll:

[zzztip]

O

heh heh yes, France would seem to be the international equivalent of the girl in High School yearbook who gets her picture taken the most because she knows all they guys on the yearbook committee really well. Check back with us in 5 years when she's got 5 kids by 3 different guys and is living in a double wide :lol:



According to your example, America is the rich fat highshcool kid who thinks everybody love him because his daddy possess the only store in town. But when he will die from a heart attack in his early 30s, nobody will come to his funerals because in the end he was nothing more than a jerk everybody hated...yes, that's about right.

[szr]

According to your example, America is the rich fat highshcool kid who thinks everybody love him because his daddy possess the only store in town. But when he will die from a heart attack in his early 30s, nobody will come to his funerals because in the end he was nothing more than a jerk everybody hated...yes, that's about right.America is like the kid at school who took my girl (that's right, the girl whom I fantasize about but have never actually tried to talk to). I hate him so much! She was mine! There is karma and he will undoubtedly get eaten by an electric hippopotamus for the crimes he's commited (like taking my girl!!)--I just know it!

2Sheds' was better. Try again.

[panzerjager]

an electric hippopotamus

rofl good one, mate

I hope the Pentagon is working on a electric hippopotamus to add to our robot warlords. That would be kick-ass.

[BlackRain]

America is like a good scholar-athlete in high school who helps the poor after school only to get grief from posers who resent his success and secretly wish to be him.

[hughdotoh]

And besides, American tourists in France, no matter how crass and loud they can get, don't go around burning cars and rioting. Not like some French citizens......

[Atlantic Friend]

America is like a good scholar-athlete in high school who helps the poor after school only to get grief from posers who resent his success and secretly wish to be him.

Wow. Has the good compassionate scholar athlete invented a vaccine against cancer and saved the world yet, or will you leave that for the next episode ?

How about that one, which seems a little more realistic : America and France are two political entities whose actions are ruled less by the desire to be "good compassionate scholar-athletes" on the world scene and more by largely common but sometimes divergent economic and political interests ?

[Atlantic Friend]

And besides, American tourists in France, no matter how crass and loud they can get, don't go around burning cars and rioting. Not like some French citizens......

What are you trying to say here, Hugh, that French tourists burn cars in countries they visit ? Or that there never was riots in Watts, LA, and that both private and public property was totally respected in flooded New Orleans ?

Riots in France, riots in America, riots in Great Britain, riots in Australia, riots in South Korea...different nations, same problems. Fact is, give people half a chance to f... up and they'll jump at it, be them French, American, British, German or Canadian citizens.

I just love these threads, the way they turn into a "we are all good and you are all bad" kind of pissing contest.

[zzztip]

America is like the kid at school who took my girl (that's right, the girl whom I fantasize about but have never actually tried to talk to). I hate him so much! She was mine! There is karma and he will undoubtedly get eaten by an electric hippopotamus for the crimes he's commited (like taking my girl!!)--I just know it!

2Sheds' was better. Try again.


A fatty took your girlfriend ?! Damn that sux to be you but like you said Karma is a bitch.




America is like a good scholar-athlete in high school who helps the poor after school only to get grief from posers who resent his success and secretly wish to be him.

LMAO, onanism anyone ! I heard that if you repeat it aloud 5 times while doing the chicken dance, your fantasy will become true.

[BlackRain]

Cowards? From a French Man no less... :roll:


Got this anonymous or cowardly rep message regarding this post.


What makes you think Frenchmen are cowards, stupid son of a bitch of american

Well, I was responding to the insult to American troops in Iraq being called cowards by a French man only to be insulted again by another French man who did not have the balls to put his name by his comment. Kind of proves the point don't you think?

[Atlantic Friend]

Got this anonymous or cowardly rep message regarding this post.

Coincidentally, I got this equally "brave" anonymous rep :



Thread Date Comment
Iraq: France no longer... 12-16-2005 02:01 PM France Sucks

Looks like not every American wants to be the brave good compassionate scholar-athlete you were describing...;)

[Lokinator]

This rep point war is really getting boring, I think the admin should even get rid of them, at least we won't have anymore people whining about the bad comment someone gave them in every damn thread.

[Atlantic Friend]

This rep point war is really getting boring, I think the admin should even get rid of them, at least we won't have anymore people whining about the bad comment someone gave them in every damn thread.

A simpler solution would be for people to dare sign their rep comments... But even if some people will never grow adult enough to do this, I think the Rep counter is a fun addition to the forum.

[ibstolidude]

I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?

Not very constructive is it? Besides, I am rubber and you are glue. Anything bad bounces off me and sticks to you.


Debate = good & constructive

Repeating the same insults, comments, and the like = bad & destructive - not to mention why debate w/someone who has no desire to see your view point; you'd do better to talk at a wall.

Be constructive or be locked; try and be respectful or be banned.

luv, the management.

[stonecutter]

America is like a good scholar-athlete in high school who helps the poor after school only to get grief from posers who resent his success and secretly wish to be him.

Heh heh -- heard a British news commentator the other day describe America as the "dinosaur" of modern day politics and conflict: all brawn, with a peanut-sized brain.
If you want to play with the high-school analogies, America is definitely the loud-mouthed jock, who thinks he's the $hit because he can catch a ball and drives his daddy's BMW. France is the beautiful and studious girl that keeps telling jock-boy where to stuff it, because he is SO not her type. Jock boy gets in a huff, and goes around calling her a "b!tch", all while secretly hoping that she will change her mind and be his one day.


Edit: Oops sorry, didn't see the mod's previous message, was just having some fun. To get back on track, France is just stating the obvious here, nothing more. Why this should be a source of continued anguish for some Americans is beyond me.

[Vorian]

I am getting tired of this constant flame-war between French and Americans.

Anyway France has a point. The war was illegal alright. But since you made it you have to finish it too, or the situation will get much much worse. And you know something. When America decides to make a move to 'save the world from evil', all those poor souls end up in Europe to try to find a new home. they don't find it, the get angry, Europeans get angry, riots occur and then Americans come and make discussions, feeling a growing satisfaction, accusing Europe of isolation policies and racism. All this, as if US has made racism dissappear, as if blacks are treated equally in amerian society.

And I should know. My country is not a big one and we have many illegal immigrants already. At first there were the Albanians seeking jobs. Then with the war in Serbia, we have thousands of immigrants. The first war in Iraq: Thousand Iraqis coming through Turkey. Second war: The same. It's our budget that is spent to equip the borders, patrol the seas etc.
At least have the guts to admit that the wars you wage are for your own profit and stop making up evil enemies. Yes, terrorism is real, fight it if you like, but stop complainig when others don't follow you in your stupidity. France stood up and you are angry. Get over it.

[Laworkerbee]

Vorian

You can't be real, you state your tired of the flame wars and then throw Napalm on everything, when your done blaming America and Americans for all of your ills please come on back and have a nice discussion. Until then try and wake up.

[szr]

A fatty took your girlfriend ?! Damn that sux to be you but like you said Karma is a bitch.You've just won 1st prize in the Kindergarten Komeback Kompetition. Please accept this box of crayons.

[zzztip]

You didn't deserve a constructive answer, you should just be happy that I dedicated 30 sec of my life to you.

[hughdotoh]

What are you trying to say here, Hugh, that French tourists burn cars in countries they visit ? Or that there never was riots in Watts, LA, and that both private and public property was totally respected in flooded New Orleans ?


No. I was pointing out that French citizens (not likely natives) in Paris no less took to burning and looting in the recent riots there. I still have to hear of a Frenchman run amok.

[Vorian]

Vorian

You can't be real, you state your tired of the flame wars and then throw Napalm on everything, when your done blaming America and Americans for all of your ills please come on back and have a nice discussion. Until then try and wake up.

Actually I didn't want to put it that way. I meant that the Americans accuse French every time they screw things up but never admit their own. Didn't want to start a new flame war.


Until then try and wake up.

I took some pills, but still feel sleepy.

[Laworkerbee]

Vorian

Screw the pills bro just go for some of that strong Turk Coffee :)