100 prisoners freed in Iraq when police station attacked

[mustamato]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/02/14/sprj.irq.fallujah.attack.ap/index.html

I just get the feeling of that coalition forces doesn´t have much control of
this area. It´s the same area where Abizaid in his convoy was attacked.

[Trident-za]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040214/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_attack&cid=540&ncid=1480


Insurgents stormed an Iraqi security compound and a government building on Saturday, freeing prisoners, in an attack that killed 20 people and wounded 30, police and hospital officials said. The same compound was attacked two days earlier during a visit by U.S. Gen. John Abizaid.


Up to 50 attackers went from room to room of the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps compound in Fallujah, throwing grenades and firing automatic weapons, said one police officer.


The attackers freed around 100 prisoners held in the compound, the officer said on condition of anonymity. It was not known if the prisoners included suspected members of the anti-U.S. insurgency.

[Uninen]

:lol: Nice going! Viva la Resistance! :)

[Jack Mehoff]

Anti-American forces have increased their violence, apparently in an attempt to wreck U.S. plans to transfer power to Iraqis, which they fear will install a government both friendly to Washington and acceptable to most Iraqis.

I don't get this. They don't want a new Iraqis government and they don't want American to stay in Iraq. Are they(insurgents) trying to achieve something?

[Uninen]

Get the Baath party back? Theres still number of their "Big Bosses" at large? Or then, these just might be foreign terrorsits that have arraived since US invaded.. but.. of this strike, i seriously suspect that members of Saddam Fedayeen are to blame..

[Jack Mehoff]

Get the Baath party back? Theres still number of their "Big Bosses" at large? Or then, these just might be foreign terrorsits that have arraived since US invaded.. but.. of this strike, i seriously suspect that members of Saddam Fedayeen are to blame..

Is that what the majority of the Iraqis want?

[mustamato]

"Up to 50 attackers went from room to room of the Iraqi Civil Defense
Corps compound in Fallujah, throwing grenades and firing automatic
weapons, said one police officer."

50 attackers, probably organized in squads and fire-teams as well. And
attack a ICDC compound! Well, they sure are getting organized, and raids
like this shows that they are confident in succeeding with their operations
as well. Not a good sign for the americans eh?


Is that what the majority of the Iraqis want?

Well, when freeing prisoners held by the occupation forces and collaborators,
I don´t think actions like that makes the average Iraqi pissed off.

[Trident-za]

I doubt it, Jack. And, I think the insurgents do want a new government - just not one that is pro-USA.

[Trident-za]

"Up to 50 attackers went from room to room of the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps compound in Fallujah, throwing grenades and firing automatic weapons, said one police officer."

50 attackers, probably organized in squads and fire-teams as well. And
attack a ICDC compound! Well, they sure are getting organized, and raids
like this shows that they are confident in succeeding with their operations
as well. Not a good sign for the americans eh?

You are right in that it is not a good sign - but its more a case of not a good sign for the ordinary, decent Iraqis. The ordinary iraqi citizen will suffer a lot more than the US if this kind of thing continues. You might want to give that some thought.....

[Jack Mehoff]

I doubt it, Jack. And, I think the insurgents do want a new government - just not one that is pro-USA.

That's why Iraq needs to have an election and the insurgents doesn't seem to like that idea. A little bit too democratic and civilized for them I guess

[Jack Mehoff]

50 attackers, probably organized in squads and fire-teams as well. And
attack a ICDC compound! Well, they sure are getting organized, and raids
like this shows that they are confident in succeeding with their operations
as well. Not a good sign for the americans eh?


You mean mostly 18 innocent Iraqis, eh? Look like you have a raging hard on everytime innocent bystanders get killed

Why do you alway have to spew **** out of your piehole, dumb****

[Jack Mehoff]

:lol: Nice going! Viva la Resistance! :)

woo woo! 20 innocent Iraqis get killed today. Why don't you go beat it off you sick **** :roll:

[mustamato]

:lol: Nice going! Viva la Resistance! :)

woo woo! 18 innocent Iraqis get killed today. Why don't you go beat it off you sick f*** :roll:

ICDC innocent? They are collaborators.

And you talk so dirty Jack :(

[Jack Mehoff]

Reading comprehension?


Abdul Hamid al-Janabi, a security official at Fallujah hospital, said at least 18 police and civilians were killed, along with two attackers


though two women and a child were among the injured, al-Janabi said. Two wounded attackers brought to the hospital were arrested, he said.

[SFontaine]

ICDC innocent? They are collaborators.



Aye!
Bunch of evil dirty traitors those guys! Trying to make their country more peaceful. They should be hung I say!

[mustamato]

Reading comprehension?


Abdul Hamid al-Janabi, a security official at Fallujah hospital, said at least 18 police and civilians were killed, along with two attackers


though two women and a child were among the injured, al-Janabi said. Two wounded attackers brought to the hospital were arrested, he said.


And why can´t the Iraqi police or ICDC have shot them? I´m quite sure
that they fired upon the attackers them as well. And Iraqis seem to be
quite "Kalashnikov-safety on full automatic, spray and pray from the hip",
either it´s police or attacker.

If we put this into a historical context, this is what happened in occupied
countries during world war 2 as well. Yes civilians were killed in huge numbers,
but history has proved them right. Most of them are considered heroes today.

In example, from the danish resistance during the war:

http://www.oresundstid.dk/dansk/svensk/oresundstid/1940-45/billeder/11-05.jpg
Danish resistance home-made armoured truck, from a 1930 Ford.
The text says "Free Denmark, Hippo-conquerer. And Hipo (one p) was
a danish pro-german movement. In a firefight against Lorentzon-ligan
(Squad 9 within Hipo) a MG burst from the "Hippo-conquerer"...

http://www.oresundstid.dk/dansk/svensk/oresundstid/1940-45/billeder/11-06.jpg
...resulted in the death of these three men

http://www.oresundstid.dk/dansk/svensk/oresundstid/1940-45/billeder/05-13.jpg
Collaborators Kaj Bothilsen-Nielsen and Henning Bröndum was part in
the death of over 150 danes during the war. After the war they were
executed.

Not to mention that it was very close to become a war between the two
leading danish resistance movements, the communistic KOPA and the
right-wing BOPA. Etc etc.

Will history give the Iraqi resistance right? Well, we just have to wait and see.

[Seiyuuki]

Didn't we had this discussion already?


:lol: Nice going! Viva la Resistance! :)

Idiot.



Reading comprehension?


Abdul Hamid al-Janabi, a security official at Fallujah hospital, said at least 18 police and civilians were killed, along with two attackers


though two women and a child were among the injured, al-Janabi said. Two wounded attackers brought to the hospital were arrested, he said.


And why can´t the Iraqi police or ICDC have shot them? I´m quite sure
that they fired upon the attackers them as well. And Iraqis seem to be
quite "Kalashnikov-safety on full automatic, spray and pray from the hip",
either it´s police or attacker.

If we put this into a historical context, this is what happened in occupied
countries during world war 2 as well. Yes civilians were killed in huge numbers,
but history has proved them right. Most of them are considered heroes today.

In example, from the danish resistance during the war:

http://www.oresundstid.dk/dansk/svensk/oresundstid/1940-45/billeder/11-05.jpg
Danish resistance home-made armoured truck, from a 1930 Ford.
The text says "Free Denmark, Hippo-conquerer. And Hipo (one p) was
a danish pro-german movement. In a firefight against Lorentzon-ligan
(Squad 9 within Hipo) a MG burst from the "Hippo-conquerer"...

http://www.oresundstid.dk/dansk/svensk/oresundstid/1940-45/billeder/11-06.jpg
...resulted in the death of these three men

http://www.oresundstid.dk/dansk/svensk/oresundstid/1940-45/billeder/05-13.jpg
Collaborators Kaj Bothilsen-Nielsen and Henning Bröndum was part in
the death of over 150 danes during the war. After the war they were
executed.

Not to mention that it was very close to become a war between the two
leading danish resistance movements, the communistic KOPA and the
right-wing BOPA. Etc etc.

Will history give the Iraqi resistance right? Well, we just have to wait and see.


Bad example.

A better one is post-war Germany. If the U.S. dethroned your Nazi leader would you put down your arms and help your country recover?

I would

[Argyll]

I hope this is not a trend about to start?

[Trident-za]

This is probably not going to be a popular comment, but anyway....

If you consider this from a purely military perspective (no political considerations), you have to admire the audicity, and effectiveness, of this raid.

If this had been a prisoner release operation conducted by the US military, we would all be singing their praises, arguing about whether it was Delta or ST6 or whoever that had pulled it off etc. This would have been followed, no doubt, by pages of comments by the youngsters about how amazingly hardcore these high-speed operators are.

Note: this is NOT meant as praise for the insurgent's political agenda, or general tactics. It is merely an acknowledgement that this particular raid was well planned, and well executed. Worrying stuff, really.....

[Argyll]

This is probably not going to be a popular comment, but anyway....

If you consider this from a purely military perspective (no political considerations), you have to admire the audicity, and effectiveness, of this raid.

If this had been a prisoner release operation conducted by the US military, we would all be singing their praises, arguing about whether it was Delta or ST6 or whoever that had pulled it off etc. This would have been followed, no doubt, by pages of comments by the youngsters about how amazingly hardcore these high-speed operators are.

Note: this is NOT meant as praise for the insurgent's political agenda, or general tactics. It is merely an acknowledgement that this particular raid was well planned, and well executed. Worrying stuff, really.....

I'd go along with that,sounds like they were well organised,and highly trained.......which paints a different picture from the one we were told a few weeks back!.And a clear shift in tactics,moving away from US targets to ICDG's and Police targets........this is worrying!

[Uninen]

If you consider this from a purely military perspective (no political considerations), you have to admire the audicity, and effectiveness, of this raid.

Yeah, seems to me as the most successful and well made action by the OPFOR since this conflict begun..

[Uninen]

14 of the killed were "police" officers.. 2 attackers and rest of total 21, civilians (5) i think, but they might have worked at the police station..

No.. i messed that up..

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/1D0B2F83-7CB0-4DBA-A613-7966756B099E.htm

See for yourselfs from there.. in that raid, 19 were killed, 14 police and 2 resistance fighters..

[duck]

Uninen and mustamato, would you guys have any information on the Wehrwolf resistance fighters in postwar Germany? Could the Iraqis learn anything from the Wehrwolf organization or tactics?

[duck]

Oh, I found something on these anti-imperalist young Germans.

"Wehrwolf (also spelled Wehrwölfe or Werwolf) was a Nazi conspiracy that was developed to fight against the victorious powers using guerilla tactics after the defeat of the Nazi government at the end of World War II. It was named after werewolves, shape-shifting monsters.

The original plan for Werwolf was to act as a guerilla force to harry the logistic trains of Allied armies preparing to assault the Nazi's "Alpine National Redoubt". It originally had about 5,000 members recruited from the SS and Hitler Youth, and specially trained in guerilla tactics. It even went so far as to establish front companies to ensure continued funding after occupation (all were discovered and shut down within eight months). However as it became increasingly clear that the Alpine Redoubt was yet another grandiose delusion, Werwolf was converted first into a terrorist organisation, and then largely dismantled by Heinrich Himmler and Wilhelm Keitel in the last few weeks of the war.

On 23 March 1945 Adolf Hitler gave a speech, known as the "Werwolf speech", in which he urged every German to fight to the death. The partial dismantling of the organised Werwolf, combined with the effects of the "Werwolf" speech caused considerable confusion about which subsequent attacks were actual Werwolf attacks, as against solo acts by fanatical Nazis or small groups of SS.

Typical Werwolf tactics included sniping attacks, arson, sabotage, and assassination although in Poland they also carried out massacres of civilians, and a few substantial attacks against Soviet troops. Their most costly single attack in the western zones of occupation was a bombing which killed 44 persons. Their most prominent victims were Dr. Franz Oppenhoff (the new anti-Nazi mayor of Aachen and most prominent democratic politician left in Germany), Major John Poston (Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery's liaison officer) and (possibly) General Berzarin (Soviet commandant of Berlin). (Their radio propaganda also claimed the assassination of General Maurice Rose (the most senior Jewish US officer), though it is more likely his killers were ordinary soldiers who had no idea who he was).

One often overlooked aspect of Werwolf is that the Hitler Youth component was also responsible for developing a new political youth movement which was intended to outlast the war, and which was called "neo-Nazism". Some current German neo-Nazi groups refer to themselves as Werwolf, although the association is probably fanciful.

On 25th August 2003, Condoleezza Rice and Donald Rumsfeld compared the problems faced by US troops then in Iraq, to those faced by US troops in post-World War II Germany. In particular, they mentioned Wehrwolf. Subsequently former Clinton staffer Daniel Benjamin wrote an essay where he attacked these remarks and claimed "Werwolf amounted to next to nothing." Although widely quoted in the media, Benjamin's views have been rejected by several historians of the period. The more conventional view is that while Werwolf was too disorganised to provide any significant military impediment to the occupiers, it delayed economic reconstruction and democritisation by three or four years."

[Uninen]

Uninen and mustamato, would you guys have any information on the Wehrwolf resistance fighters in postwar Germany? Could the Iraqis learn anything from the Wehrwolf organization or tactics?

Not really.. they werent effective at all from what i heard, did only some small scale sabotage and assasinated couple of peoples.. but nothing in scale of Iraq i belive.. :|

I think that they did their "things" for some 10 years or something and killed 100-1000 people, but not really anything that matters.. in that space of time..

[George W. Bush]

Hm I wonder why we didn't respond. An AH1 or AH64 responding would have been great

[George W. Bush]

At least they can bet their ass the won't get this lucky in a long time again.

[Trident-za]

Yeah.... from what Ive read, the gunfight lasted a half hour or so - you would expect a QRF to respond within that time. Maybe .... a communication ****-up?

[mustamato]

Hm I wonder why we didn't respond. An AH1 or AH64 responding would have been great

When something is as organized as that, then you can count on that they
have a security perimeter as well, probably including SAM´s. Of course
the americans knew that something big was going on, they must have
heard the extensive gunfire, and got some kind of reports. But my guess
would be that they didn´t want to be targets for SAM´s, so they didn´t
send any Apaches.

[Uninen]

Also,

They struck at friendly target in the middle of a city.. they couldnt just send gunships to blast the location to the ground, and from the scenes i saw in news.. there was lots of hummers speeding to somewhere.. and i would guess that those were heading to the location of the battle..

[usa320]

Nice going! Viva la Resistance!

Nice going.

Your a ****tard.

Atop getting your news from Al Jazeera...anyone with any credibility gets their research and news from organizations that HAVE credibility.

Frankly, i think we should put Al Jazeera off the air....they do more to help the terrorists than any of those Islamic charities.

[/b]

[aktarian]

At least they can bet their ass the won't get this lucky in a long time again.

If a week ago somebody would post that this could happen what would responses be? "In your dreams", "If somebody tries something like this US troops would be there in 1/2 hour and A-10s in minutes", "You give resistance too much credit, they can't pull off something like this" etc.

They did it once. both isdes will do AARs, see what worked, what didn't....

[Kitsune]

Werwolf? I do not like these historic comparisons.
Between the German situation in 1945 and the Iraqi situation there are a lot of differences.

1)Germans are not Iraqis. The cultural and historic backround is totally different.

2)The Germans had gone through six years of war. Millions of soldiers and civilians had been killed (2.9 million members of the varied armed forces, 2.6 million civilians). Germanies cities were mostly destroyed and people had to live in ruins. The Eastern Europeans expelled 14 million Germans form their homeland, they had to travel to the west, on foot, with nearly no possesions (2 million died on the way) and had to be cared for.
Nothing like this happened to the Iraqis. Short version: The Germans simply had enough of war. Simply enough. Anyone who tried to continue it had not much support.
I don't know wether this can be compared to the Iraqi case.

3)After WWII was ended and the truth about the Holocaust became known, the Germans were guilt ridden. This effectivly prevented many form wishing Hitler back (perhaps not all, but most) and prevented ill feelings towards the victors (which is a bit astounding if one takes into accoun the brutal and unecessary bombing war by the British/Americans...but nonetheless it is true. Germans, who had experienced this did mainly blame Hitler for it and not the western Allies).
Although Saddam committed numerous crimes the sense of guilt seems to be far less in the Iraqi case.

4)Most important factor: The Soviet Union. Most Germans hated, loathed and feared the Soviets. Since Stalin soon became the common enemy for the western Allies and West Germany, this created an effective bond (Eastern Germany was a different matter, and there was at least one major insurgence which the Soviet crushed with tanks....hundreds of Germans were killed). So anyone fighting against the British/Americans/French had one problem: What happens in the rather improbable case that they DO leave? Probably the´Soviets would take over! And especially the Neo Nazis like Werwolf did not find THAT idea very attractive...better to ally with the Americans/British/French and fight against the commies! And there were possibilities to do it, wether in the French Foreign Legion or even as members of the US Army (that did really happen, case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend")
This common enemy is missing in the Iraq scenario (Al Qaeda hardly fits the bill, here).

So...all in all, I do not think, that the German situation in 1945 and the Iraqi situation now, are similiar at all.

[Argyll]

At least they can bet their ass the won't get this lucky in a long time again.


Words to come back and haunt you mate

They will continue to hit Soft targets,such as police stations,so much for a resistance that has been broken,and who are un organised and disalousioned!.
My mates in Baghdad say the place is far from safe,many places still off limits,and the people are very scared.!

[mustamato]

Frankly, i think we should put Al Jazeera off the air....they do more to help the terrorists than any of those Islamic charities.

I´m sorry to ruin your mood, but you live in a so called democracy. So
you should really post stuff like this instead: "al-Hurra woot "

[George W. Bush]

Instead of bombing every single Al Jazeera station with wasted tax payer's money we funded our own Arab news network.

http://www.alhurra.com/

Hells yeah beyaatch

[obd]

While I must say I admire the sheer audacity of the raid and its organization and effectiveness from a purely tactial sense I have some deep reservations about this resistance:

For one it doenst fit the classic resistance pattern of freeing the educated classes from the grips of an evil government intent in killing them off so there are no people with the skills to speek out. Instead, as mentioned in several BBC, *******, etc articles posted on this forum, the "resistance" is killing off the intelligencia class and the wealthy class and is trying to spark sectarian civil war. Why? Because an free and democratic Iraq full of educated people is a threat to thier aims of establishing an Islamic state.

Also, they are not trying to unite the people but are trying to destroy untiy and spark civil war. This is a truly evil kind of "resistance" movement and nodody hear should start getting romantic and rooting for the underdog with "vive la resistance" or such bull**** even if it was a joke. These ****ers are pure evil and they seek only death,disease, and destruction for everyone. Sorry but any group that requires civil war and the destruction of all educated peoples to succeed is wrong in my book.........

This is why I think the resistance is most likely Sunni and Islamist: For one, the Sunni fear a loss of prestige and power in democracy as by all accounts they are a minority. Next, most Iraqi's are actually quite secular so I think there are at least a few insurgents from Syria and Saudi Arabia. In fact, hundreds are turned back at the border every day with weapons and documents about the resistance. Why American troops dont just kill the bastards or arrest them and send them to "Gitmo" is beyond me. Everyone knows they will just keep trying until they one day make it in Iraq and ouce they are there well.......its alot harder to deal with them. I think its time we took a page from Russian war in Chechnya and made an example out of Fallujah. That ****in city is nothing more than a den of snakes and its high time we sent in about 10,000 Rangers to have a little fun and revenge with that place!

[mustamato]

Instead of bombing every single Al Jazeera station with wasted tax payer's money we funded our own Arab news network.

http://www.alhurra.com/

Hells yeah beyaatch

It probably lacks one important thing, humour. Just look at the programs
they will send. Who will ever watch that channel? In contrast a channel
like Al-Jazeera have a lot of humour, in example:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/73698CFD-BE84-48B7-A98B-080CC056E5BC.htm
"'Chickenhawk' charges continue to dog Bush" rofl

They make fun of everyone, why do you think they are banned in several
arab countries? And the viewers love them for it. I have Al-Jazeera
in my cabel network, although I don´t understand a word it´s fun as hell
to watch the channel. The debates are hilarious, arabs yelling at each others,
and the debate leader is yelling to all of them etc.

[Trident-za]

ODB wrote:


While I must say I admire the sheer audacity of the raid and its organization and effectiveness from a purely tactial sense I have some deep reservations about this resistance:


I agree, thats why I specifically stated "from a purely military (no political considerations) point of view". I think most of us agree with your points about the resistance...... although, I think sending in 10 000 rangers for "fun and revenge" has got to be the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.

[Tommy Gunn]

edited

[1AssToRisk]

As with everything in Iraq, You need to look at the bigger picture. The fact that all the stores were closed in the area should have alerted the police/military that something was amiss.

The fact that all the Iraqi police were not killed could also indicate that they colaberated with the attackers.

Just food for thought.

[George W. Bush]

14-4. The Fallujah ICDC is losing!! :)

[Uninen]

edited

:roll: Why?

I still remember what you said.. ;) Well.. maybe you had your reasons to remove that.. :|

Just my personal note:

What did they expected that would happen?

After all they fired all Iraqi polices and and the whole god damn army.. then hired some formerly exiled gangsters to do the job.. :cantbeli:

If anything, Iraq police and Army knew how to counter insurgents, and many of them would have gladly served with FREE Iraq also.. :petting:

WAY TO GO!

[George W. Bush]

I imagine that the Military are still training them. They did put up a good fight though. I read that an Army base radio'ed the police chief and asked if he needed help which he declined.

It's their problem, let them work it out. I think we have enough quislings to keep things from totally deteriorating.

[mustamato]

It's their problem, let them work it out.

Since US is occupying the country, they have a responsibility to uphold the
law and provide security for the civilians. You know, US can´t just do what
they want to do (protect pipelines etc), they have choosen to attack Iraq
and choosen the whole package. It´s their God damn responsibility.

[Uninen]

One thing is kinda weird.. why has there not been a update on this?

On the *******, there was a vidd of "aftermath" showed A-10 flying and shooting flares, to decoy MANPADs.. maybe this thing is yet to fully unfold?

[Tributal]

It's their problem, let them work it out.Since US is occupying the country, they have a responsibility to uphold the law and provide security for the civilians. You know, US can´t just do what they want to do (protect pipelines etc), they have choosen to attack Iraq and choosen the whole package.What's your problem with the U.S.? I'll freely admit that I don't particularly agree with the reasoning behind the U.S. going into Ieaq this time around - however, Saddam needed to be taken care of, and unfortunately George Bush Sr didn't help the Kurds (and their allies) when they tried to go for it after the first Gulf war. Any ruler who is systematically killing off anyone who does not subscribe to his own line of thinking should be de-throned. All we should do now is to hope and (if possible) help Iraq to get back on it's feet. The Iraqi people suffered under Saddam and the U.S. and it's allies does not want them to suffer further. But rebuilding a country is not easily done, and having opposing forces run around attacking police stations etc is not making it any easier.



It´s their God damn responsibility.Aren't we full of ourself. How long has it been since Saddam took refuge to that little hole in the ground? A few months. How long since the Iraqi army laid down it's weapons? Almost a year.

Reading your posts you make it sound as though the U.S. should have turned Iraq into an Eden of peace within 5 minutes of the war ending, that they somehow magically should've been able to convince every Iraqi in the country that what was was, and what is is, and there's no reason to worry or to be angry - everything will be alright as long as you get with the program.

What you seem to ignore is that you have several factions within the Iraqi people who are fighting for power now that the one suppressing power (Saddam) is gone. A close parallel would be Yugoslavia after Tito died - remember that mess?

You act as though the U.S. are standing idly by, just watching the place go up in smoke - well, they're not. But trying to help a country back on it's feet is no easy feat. No matter who the U.S. thinks is a good candidate to lead the country will be opposed by someone. I think that even if you held an election you could not get a leader without there being violence from the opposing parties.

It's VERY easy for you to sit in safety up in Finland and say "they should've done this, or they should've done that" because there's no risk to your safety in doing so. You're not in Iraq trying to help - you're sitting in front of a computer criticizing those who do, and for that I hold you in contempt.

[Uninen]

A close parallel would be Yugoslavia after Tito died - remember that mess?

Yeah.. we remember..

We remember USA supporting, training, funding and arming Moslem terrorists after that.. all over Balkans.. and attacking the only force that tryed to keep the **** from not getting out of hand.. the Serbs.. :|

We even remember Mujahedin and Al-Qaida at the Bosnia and in Kosovo, brought to there by CIA.. :|

We even remember pics of CIA bosses sitting down with KLA and planning that "what should we do to the Serbs.." :|

We also remember that CIA sponsored KLA / UCK killed Kosovar Albanians, and blamed it on Serbs so that USA would get its justification to bomb Serbs.. :|

Theres something of a mess to you.. :|

(and it wasnt long after that, that the UCKs best pal organisation Al-Qaida crashed 4 passanger planes all over USA in 9.11.2001 as a thanks for helping them..)

[MxxxFxxxx]

It's their problem, let them work it out.
It´s their God damn responsibility.

Therefore, countries that now want to be involved in reconstruction (but did nothing to assist in the liberation) and the accompanying contracts don't merit consideration. Fine by me.

[MxxxFxxxx]

I think that they did their "things" for some 10 years or something and killed 100-1000 people, but not really anything that matters.. in that space of time..

Nice....tell that to the 100-1000 people and their families that they don'e matter. WTF?

[Tributal]

A close parallel would be Yugoslavia after Tito died - remember that mess?

Yeah.. we remember..

We remember USA supporting, training, funding and arming Moslem terrorists after that.. all over Balkans.. and attacking the only force that tryed to keep the **** from not getting out of hand.. the Serbs.. :|Since I was there I will tell you this - I have yet to hear a single Serb, Croat or Muslim take responsibility for their own side's actions. Your post is just another case of finger pointing, something all three sides seem to be very good at. "We're the good guys, they're the ones doing all the bad stuff." Sure, whatever. Hypocrits!

All three factions acted just as cowardly, killing women and children alike. To say that one side was just trying to keep things from getting out of hand is BS.

Most, if not all, of the things you listed are old Serb war propaganda. It's only too bad that you don't have the guts to admit to it.

[Uninen]

Link! (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/1D0B2F83-7CB0-4DBA-A613-7966756B099E.htm)

Falluja raid toll rises to 27

Two hospitals in Falluja, revising a toll of 22 dead, said on Sunday the raid killed 22 police, one civilian and four attackers.

[Luxembourger]

a couple months ago , there was an interview with an Iraqi police officer in Fallujah. He said :

" we don t want the Americans in Fallujah and patrolling , we can handle our crime very well ...the Americans should immediatly leave the city and give us full controll of the city. "

So it makes no sense to blame the americans for not intervening or being late in this shooting.

[MxxxFxxxx]

Link! (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/1D0B2F83-7CB0-4DBA-A613-7966756B099E.htm)

Falluja raid toll rises to 27

Two hospitals in Falluja, revising a toll of 22 dead, said on Sunday the raid killed 22 police, one civilian and four attackers.

What? No come back for Tributals post? C'mon, I'm sure you've got something to say. I mean you WERE there like him, right? :roll:

[Barry McKockiner]

Hm I wonder why we didn't respond. An AH1 or AH64 responding would have been great

When something is as organized as that, then you can count on that they
have a security perimeter as well, probably including SAM´s. Of course
the americans knew that something big was going on, they must have
heard the extensive gunfire, and got some kind of reports. But my guess
would be that they didn´t want to be targets for SAM´s, so they didn´t
send any Apaches.

I'm curious where you became such a military tactics expert. I spent 6 months in Iraq and find your "findings" incorrect and assinine. You have been reading too much "Blackhawk Down" and playing too much Rainbow 6 for your own good. Essentially, you sound ignorant towards the military and are an American hating asshat. Stick to what you are an expert at: Vodka and Raindeer.

Where are these people bred?

[Trident-za]

OK, Barry - since you spent 6 months in Iraq, can you explain why no US military reaction force or helicopter got there in time? I'm genuinely curious.....

Accusing people of being an "American hating asshat" is just a way of avoiding the question. You dissed his suggestion, insulted him... and didn't provide an alternative answer.... so whats your alternative explanation?

[serbian boy]

Go Iraqi Resistance!!!!!! woot woot

[mustamato]

Hm I wonder why we didn't respond. An AH1 or AH64 responding would have been great

When something is as organized as that, then you can count on that they
have a security perimeter as well, probably including SAM´s. Of course
the americans knew that something big was going on, they must have
heard the extensive gunfire, and got some kind of reports. But my guess
would be that they didn´t want to be targets for SAM´s, so they didn´t
send any Apaches.

I'm curious where you became such a military tactics expert. I spent 6 months in Iraq and find your "findings" incorrect and assinine. You have been reading too much "Blackhawk Down" and playing too much Rainbow 6 for your own good. Essentially, you sound ignorant towards the military and are an American hating asshat. Stick to what you are an expert at: Vodka and Raindeer.

Where are these people bred?

Why would a american hating asshat read "Blackhawk down"? :)

And some alternative explanations perhaps?

[MxxxFxxxx]

Go Iraqi Resistance!!!!!! woot woot

Hey SB,

Since you're a gun for hire and so supportive of the Iraqi resistance why aren't you there helping them out? :roll:

[Tributal]

OK, Barry - since you spent 6 months in Iraq, can you explain why no US military reaction force or helicopter got there in time? I'm genuinely curious.....I think the answer to your question was in Luxembourger's post. The Iraqi police had previously asked the U.S. to let them (the Iraqi police) do their job without U.S. support. They asked for it and they got it. :cantbeli:

[Trident-za]

I'm sorry, but I don't believe that at all! You're not honestly trying to say that the US army only goes into areas where they have been given "permission" by the locals?

I don't know the circumstances of this so-called request (the quote doesn't strike me as a request for the US to leave, but more like political rhetoric), but.... I'm damn sure that statement was not taken seriously by the US military. I dont know why the US army did not respond in time - but I am sure it had nothing to do with that.

[Argyll]

Considering there were Hummers in some of the clips on the networks I'd say something about this report is dodgy!

[Mrcoburg]

I am new to this board and thing this threads very educational.

[Tributal]

I'm sorry, but I don't believe that at all! You're not honestly trying to say that the US army only goes into areas where they have been given "permission" by the locals?No, not at all. But if the U.S. "pampers" the Iraqi police (or any other domestic organisation that is ivolved in the efforts to get Iraq back on it's feet) what support there is for the U.S. will go away REAL fast. So, in order for the U.S. to keep the support alive they have to show that they trust the "locals" to do their job without having Uncle Sam looking over their shoulder. Unfortunately when SHTF there might be no U.S. support available. After all, the U.S. is neither omnipotent or omniscient (only MxxxFxxxx is.)



I don't know the circumstances of this so-called request (the quote doesn't strike me as a request for the US to leave, but more like political rhetoric), but.... I'm damn sure that statement was not taken seriously by the US military. I dont know why the US army did not respond in time - but I am sure it had nothing to do with that.I agree that it sounded like political rhetoric, but that doesn't mean that the U.S. didn't decide that if they talk the talk they better walk the walk.

Of course, this could've been something that the U.S. had decided long before the Iraqi police official made his statement. Say the official knew that the U.S. had decided that the Iraqis were to be trusted to uphold the law on their own, then the official made his statement on his own, thusly gaining points with the anti-U.S. elements. Especially if there was a visible cut in U.S. presence after the statement had been made.

[Ichhabe]

Tributal said:


I will tell you this - I have yet to hear a single Serb, Croat or Muslim take responsibility for their own side's actions.


I had the "pleasure" of spending a little over a month down in Croatia and Bosnia/Herzegovina in August/September 1995.

I learned to know some ex-Croatian soldier that had been to the war.
These guys were in the age of 23-27 years old.

I can assure you that all of them were quite pissed at Tudjmann due to the fact that he had tricked them in to a war that most of the people in Croatia did not want.

They showed me some bizarre pictures from the war against the Serbs.
Specially I remember a series of pictures of an elderly Serbian soldier in his 50's that his platoon had captured.
While in their captive they brutaly molested this poor man while taking pictures of the crime.
The guy showing me these pictures started to cry while showing me these photos.
He was so ashamed over what he and his comrades had done that he just wasn't able to explain.

For what I've learned, a lot of young ex-soldiers was not sad when Tudjmann finally took his place among the "heavenly multitude."

The reason why we seldomly hear people admit atrocoties is maybe because they are ashamed. This is not something you broadcast as something to be proud of.

[MxxxFxxxx]

I don't know the circumstances of this so-called request (the quote doesn't strike me as a request for the US to leave, but more like political rhetoric), but.... I'm damn sure that statement was not taken seriously by the US military. I dont know why the US army did not respond in time - but I am sure it had nothing to do with that.I agree that it sounded like political rhetoric, but that doesn't mean that the U.S. didn't decide that if they talk the talk they better walk the walk.


So that begs the question: If you, they, whoever doesn't like the US presence there, and we let the ICDC take care of the security (rhetoric or not), AND something bad does happen, then why be upset or criticize that the US did not respond fast enough?......afterall, you are telling the US that the Iraqis should run their country so in this case they were given the latitude to do so. Damned if the US does something, damned if the US doesn't. Unless one is actually in on the decision making it's pretty difficult to actually know what's really going on and easy to throw stones.

[Tributal]

I agree that it sounded like political rhetoric, but that doesn't mean that the U.S. didn't decide that if they talk the talk they better walk the walk.So that begs the question: If you, they, whoever doesn't like the US presence there, and we let the ICDC take care of the security (rhetoric or not), AND something bad does happen, then why be upset or criticize that the US did not respond fast enough?That was what I was trying to say. I was just trying to show possible reasons for why the U.S. didn't nuke the attackers within a nano-second of the first shot being fired.


Damned if the US does something, damned if the US doesn't. Unless one is actually in on the decision making it's pretty difficult to actually know what's really going on and easy to throw stones.My sentiment exactly.

[Ace Hunter]

Why not hand over the country to the UN?

[Luxembourger]

I see that some people here like to see the US failing in IRAq ....................

[Argyll]

I see that some people here like to see the US failing in IRAq ....................


Only one by the looks of it an I think it's personal with him.

Seems to me that people tend to forget that the US is not alone in Iraq in terms of Military Forces...........failure is not an option with either Iraq or Afghanisan!

[Trident-za]

I see that some people here like to see the US failing in IRAq ....................

Those people are definitely the minority here. Please do not mistake questioning situations/tactics/operations as wanting the US to fail. There is no need to praise everything the US does, never questioning, in order to prove you are pro the COALITION succeeding in Iraq.

[Luxembourger]

I am not refering to you ,,,but to guys who say that the resitance rules or is cool

[Luxembourger]

everybody has got a different opinion about the war in iraq ,,,,,,,,,,but I think feeling joy to see that the reistance kills a lot of coalition troops ( including many other nations)
simply ...> SUCKS!

[Trident-za]

but I think feeling joy to see that the reistance kills a lot of coalition troops ( including many other nations)
simply ...> SUCKS!


Agreed.

[MxxxFxxxx]

Seems to me that people tend to forget that the US is not alone in Iraq in terms of Military Forces...........failure is not an option with either Iraq or Afghanisan!

Agreed......much appreciated contributions from many countries.....but the US is bearing a larger load (as appropriate to capability) so will also get the most criticism. If that's the burden, so be it......You are 100% correct, the missions there cannot be allowed to fail despite all the naysayers.

[Luxembourger]

and by thinking the reistance is cool , means not to support the majority of the iraqis

I think the iraqis well know that if the US leaves now there would be chaos .
This reistance bastartds are killing iraiqis more and more , children policemen,,,,,those resitance and suicide bombers are iAl qeada guys , in my opinion

[Luxembourger]

this resistance cannot be compared to resitance during WW2

[Tributal]

For the Iraqis it's safer to criticize the U.S. than to support them. The U.S. troops won't use violence against someone who jus disagree with them being there - or who verbally makes their view known. The anti-U.S./pro-Saddam groups have no qualms whatsoever to use violence against those opposing their thinking. So, for a pro-U.S. Iraqi it's safer to pretend to be anti.

Also, most Iraqis want to be left alone and left in peace. Many of them would prefer that the U.S. leave so that the Iraqi people can "straighten things out." The only problem is that if the U.S. & allies withdraws we will have a new Yugoslavia on our hands, and then everyone will be equally pissed at the U.S. for withdrawing in the first place. Like MxxxFxxxx said - damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Luxembourger]

For the Iraqis it's safer to criticize the U.S. than to support them. The U.S. troops won't use violence against someone who jus disagree with them being there - or who verbally makes their view known. The anti-U.S./pro-Saddam groups have no qualms whatsoever to use violence against those opposing their thinking. So, for a pro-U.S. Iraqi it's safer to pretend to be anti.

Also, most Iraqis want to be left alone and left in peace. Many of them would prefer that the U.S. leave so that the Iraqi people can "straighten things out." The only problem is that if the U.S. & allies withdraws we will have a new Yugoslavia on our hands, and then everyone will be equally pissed at the U.S. for withdrawing in the first place. Like MxxxFxxxx said - damned if you do, damned if you don't.


sharing the same opinion

[MxxxFxxxx]

Go Iraqi Resistance!!!!!! woot woot

Hey SB,

Since you're a gun for hire and so supportive of the Iraqi resistance why aren't you there helping them out? :roll:

See above.......c'mon Mr. "Iraqi Resistance (Saddam Fedayeen) Boy....Why aren't you there? I'm sure there's money for you....and you are a "gun for hire".

[serbian boy]

Hey man, I'm just ****ing around!!! rofl
But I still don't support american wars for oil.
People shouldn't die for that ****, if Bush beleives in the war so much why doesn't he send his daughters or sons to die in Iraq? :)
But as always america has benefited from wars.
War is Money in the Great American Capitalist Society :(

[California Joe]

Simmah don nah.

[duck]

Did Milosevic send his sons and daughters to die in Bosnia or Croatia? How about Kosovo?

[MxxxFxxxx]

Hey man, I'm just f*** around!!! rofl
But I still don't support american wars for oil.
People shouldn't die for that ****, if Bush beleives in the war so much why doesn't he send his daughters or sons to die in Iraq? :)
But as always america has benefited from wars.
War is Money in the Great American Capitalist Society :(

Yeah, gun for hire, just f*** around. Btw:

1. President Bush doesn't send anyone to die. It's the risk service people assume for joining (it is volunteer you know).
2. President Bush doesn't have sons, so it's not really a possibility.
3. The US doesn't benefit from the billions of dollars the US taxpayers will have to give to Iraq for reconstruction.
4. How come you can't just answer the simple question.....Why aren't you in Iraq since you are a gun for hire AND so supportive?

It can mean only one of two things either you aren't a gun for hire (which make you a liar) or you are and you're just chickenS***. Either way, you are now OWNED!
:slap: rofl rofl

[StarvingStudent47]

....And shepards we shall be.

For thee, my Lord, for thee.
Power hath descended forth from Thy hand
Our feet may swiftly carry out Thy commands.
So we shall flow a river forth to Thee
And teeming with souls shall it ever be.
In Nomeni Patri Et Fili Spiritus Sancti.

Sorry, just saw your sig and had to add that to the discussion. Carry on...

[MxxxFxxxx]

It does have some classic lines huh? :D

[Ace Hunter]

Back during DS1, I used to make prisoners eat pages from my pocketbook bible. If they resisted, I would stick them with my bayonet...

[serbian boy]

Um okay asshole, were did I say I was a gun for hire, stop smoking that **** man, it's getting to you, and I said that I was just ****ing around, okay joke, it was just joke! :D Sorry if I offended you, and also of course Milosevic didn't send his som to war, his son rode around in a Ferrari while people couldn't afford to buy 12 lters of gas. That mother****er! He didn't care about the people starving or dying he only cared about himself!
And btw how come you aren't in Iraq fighing against tyranny and opression? Answer me that and I'll show you a green dog! :lol:

[serbian boy]

**** Iraqi Resistance! Let The People Choose! :D

[Uninen]

Considering there were Hummers in some of the clips on the networks I'd say something about this report is dodgy!

I saw the same news clips, first time actually on "live" when the battle was still unfolding, and there was also those A-10s shooting flares on the clips..


Link! (http://apnews.myway.com//article/20040215/D80NNMH00.html)

There were conflicting reports who may have been behind the Fallujah attacks.

Police claimed foreigners - Arabs or Iranians - were involved and that two of four attackers killed in the battle had Lebanese identification papers. Rumors spread in the city that an Iraqi Shiite Muslim militia with links to Iran, the Badr Brigade, was to blame.

But a U.S. officer in Baghdad said the attack's sophistication pointed to former members of Saddam Hussein's military.

The assault involved simultaneous attacks: One group of gunmen overran the police station, freeing dozens of prisoners being held there, while a second team pinned down Iraqi security forces at a nearby compound with a half-hour barrage of fire to prevent them from helping the policemen.

Sounds like a decend plan.. eh?

Problem i think was that they enemy was well organised, and prevented ANY troops from getting to the polices help..

[Tributal]

Um okay asshole, were did I say I was a gun for hire, Have you read your own profile lately?



And btw how come you aren't in Iraq fighing against tyranny and opression? Answer me that and I'll show you a green dog! :lol:Why am I getting a feeling someone in Serbia will be looking for a green dog very soon?

[aktarian]

Um okay asshole, were did I say I was a gun for hire, Have you read your own profile lately?

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

[California Joe]

This profane little caffeine fueled mutant may be the most annoying of all the newbies.

[MxxxFxxxx]

Um okay asshole, were did I say I was a gun for hire, stop smoking that **** man, .......And btw how come you aren't in Iraq fighing against tyranny and opression? Answer me that and I'll show you a green dog! :lol:

Um, asshole, read your own profile....what are you smoking you little f***tard?
:cantbeli:
Don't make ASSumptions about who's fighting where either. :fork: :slap: :bash:

[Ace Hunter]

Perhaps he's a hired "airsoft" gun?

[serbian boy]

Hey X guy, tard is such a funnny word rofl rofl
Anyway, lets just stop ****ing around and talk about this prison bust.
This attack seems to be one of the first organized ones by the Iraqi Resistance, I mean they had 50 men go in clear rooms out with grenades and such, and they managed to free 100 Iraqi prisoners, well I guess the American forces are gonna have there work cut out for them again. Anyway does anybody know the Iraqi Resistance casualties in this raid?
Thanks in advance. :D

[Ace Hunter]

Maybe they learned how to organize and clear rooms at "University?"

[mustamato]

Anyway does anybody know the Iraqi Resistance casualties in this raid?
Thanks in advance. :D

4. Some wounded might have died somewhere else of course, but they
are not reported, so 4 dead is the official number.

[serbian boy]

Whow, thanks mustamato, :hug: :D Only four!, seems like a pretty succesfull operation to me.

[F'tard]

Hey X guy, tard is such a funnny word rofl

F***tardedness is no laughing matter. That's why I've founded the F'tard University for Clinical Knowledge and Medical Enlightenment. F'tardedness afflicts millions of people all over the world, causing them to show their a$$ and spout ignorant $hit behind the anonimity of the internet. We here at F.U.C.K.M.E. are working hard to find an end for this disease...won't you give generously to help find a cure?

[serbian boy]

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

[MxxxFxxxx]

Hey X guy, tard is such a funnny word rofl rofl
Anyway, lets just stop f*** around and talk about this prison bust.
This attack seems to be one of the first organized ones by the Iraqi Resistance, I mean they had 50 men go in clear rooms out with grenades and such, and they managed to free 100 Iraqi prisoners, well I guess the American forces are gonna have there work cut out for them again.

What's your point? They were people who disagreed with being removed from power, they want it back, so they attacked their own people to free their buddies to help them out.

Yes it will cause more work, but you see there's this saying about freedom...It isn't free. It actually takes work and is an ongoing process. In fact, if one thinks about it, what does one have (be it a home, a car, whatever) of value that did not require some hard work and sacrifice? Freedom, being a non-materialistic concept requires that much more hard work and sacrifice. When people become complacent, that's when their freedom is taken from them.

In the process of acquiring and maintaining freedom there will ALWAYS be those who would like to infringe on it. In newly liberated countries that process IS going to be long and dangerous. Free countries around the world did not spring up over night and neither will Iraq. The value of freedom comes from the sacrifices of those who fought and in many cases died for it. The countries that are over there assisting in that cause understand that.

If you choose to support those who would rather undermine the freedom of other people.....well so be it. I'm not here to change your mind just express my opinion. If you don't agree....well I don't really care with the exception that you dishonor those who are attempting to make the world a better place. Have a fine x day.

[serbian boy]

If the Iraqi people wanted "freedom" before the war they could've risen up against Saddam and overthrew his government, the Iraqi Army couldn't have done much and probably wouldn't have since they were demolarized and probably would've helped the people, (Belgrade 2000?) I just think the U.S. is unjustified in putting words in peoples mouths and invading there countries and bombing and killing them. Thats all thats my view. :) :hug:

[duck]

Oh-oh, but Saddam was smarter than even Milosevic, he had learned his lessons from history. Slobodan only shared power with the Serbian Mafia, Saddam went all the way and build up concrentic rings of competing security services in the Hitler/Stalin mould. Just before the war he and his tribe had 60.000 bodyguards and other security personnel just out to protect them. And these bodyguards had tanks, heavy artillery and assault helicopters.

[serbian boy]

Alright, I guess so, but if the people really wanted freedom they could've asked for help. Instead the U.S. just said oh yeah the Iraqi People want freedom so were going to invade and bomb them, amd send our oil companies in. :|
I don't think thats the right way to do it. But thats just my opinion. :)

[MxxxFxxxx]

Instead the U.S. just said oh yeah the Iraqi People want freedom so were going to invade and bomb them, amd send our oil companies in. :|

But it wasn't just the US and if you think military intervention is JUST "oh well let's go invade this country" you are really completely uninformed. Please for your own sake, stop making such inane comments because it's really sad and you're embarrassing yourself. :( :oops:

[serbian boy]

Military intervention from what? :roll:

[Tommy Gunn]

I just think the U.S. is unjustified in putting words in peoples mouths and invading there countries and bombing and killing them. Thats all thats my view. :) :hug:

Saddam was supporting terrorists that had attacked the US. A case in point was Abu Abbas whom we captured in Baghdad. Abu Abbas has been on our wanted list or decades as he is a notorious terrorist mastermind who planned many attacks on US citizens.

There was also Abu Nidal, a terrorist leader who had been staying in Saddam's Iraq until he was killed by his own thugs in some kind of factional infighting within his organization.

Saddam was paying money to the families of suicide bombers so as to encourage these attacks.


Remember, president Buss said that we would attack the state sponsers of terrorists as well as the terrorists themselves.

[serbian boy]

Well I guess he'll have to attack and invade Saudi Arabia too! :P

[MxxxFxxxx]

Military intervention from what? :roll:

:cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli:

Butt p-) .

[Tommy Gunn]

Well I guess he'll have to attack and invade Saudi Arabia too! :P

Lets just nuke Mecca and start a crusade.

[Tributal]

Well I guess he'll have to attack and invade Saudi Arabia too! :PAside from there already being U.S. troops stationed in Saudi Arabia... :fork:

I saw a rather interesting special on Usama bin Laden the other day. They interviewed a bunch of people who have met him through the years - reporters from different countries, people who fought with him against the Soviets in Afghanistan, etc etc.
Anyway, one of the persons interviewed was the former head of the Saudi intelligence service. He talked about how Usama had offered to use "his mujahedeen" against the Iraqi invaders in Kuwait, but when he was dismissed and the U.S. arrived instead, little Usama got a big chip on his shoulder - especially when he was later stripped of his Saudi passport and later citizenship.

The Saudi official then said that Usama probably decided on using Saudi members of Al Queada[sp] for 9/11 because this would cause a split between the U.S. and the Saudis.

[serbian boy]

The Saudi royal families are the biggest supporters and funders of Islamic terrorism around the world.
Tommy Gun wrote:
Lets just nuke Mecca and start a crusade.
Hey thats a good idea! woot If you fail once try again until you succede! :lol:

[Argyll]

Well I guess he'll have to attack and invade Saudi Arabia too! :PAside from there already being U.S. troops stationed in Saudi Arabia... :fork:

I saw a rather interesting special on Usama bin Laden the other day. They interviewed a bunch of people who have met him through the years - reporters from different countries, people who fought with him against the Soviets in Afghanistan, etc etc.
Anyway, one of the persons interviewed was the former head of the Saudi intelligence service. He talked about how Usama had offered to use "his mujahedeen" against the Iraqi invaders in Kuwait, but when he was dismissed and the U.S. arrived instead, little Usama got a big chip on his shoulder - especially when he was later stripped of his Saudi passport and later citizenship.

The Saudi official then said that Usama probably decided on using Saudi members of Al Queada[sp] for 9/11 because this would cause a split between the U.S. and the Saudis.



I thought that the US had pulled all of it's assets out of Saudi,as they would not give permission to use Saudi as a jump off point for the Invasion of Iraq,at one stage they got pissed becuase wayward cruise missiles were landing in Saudi,and that the flight paths had to be altered as not to fly over Saudi Airspace?

[aktarian]

Saddam was supporting terrorists that had attacked the US. A case in point was Abu Abbas whom we captured in Baghdad. Abu Abbas has been on our wanted list or decades as he is a notorious terrorist mastermind who planned many attacks on US citizens.

There was also Abu Nidal, a terrorist leader who had been staying in Saddam's Iraq until he was killed by his own thugs in some kind of factional infighting within his organization.

Saddam was paying money to the families of suicide bombers so as to encourage these attacks.


Remember, president Buss said that we would attack the state sponsers of terrorists as well as the terrorists themselves.

Interesting how Iraq was only country that was removed fom list of countries that sponsor terrorism. Go figure.

[hank]

If the Iraqi people wanted "freedom" before the war they could've risen up against Saddam and overthrew his government, the Iraqi Army couldn't have done much and probably wouldn't have since they were demolarized and probably would've helped the people, (Belgrade 2000?) I just think the U.S. is unjustified in putting words in peoples mouths and invading there countries and bombing and killing them. Thats all thats my view. :) :hug:

Yeah, and that was VERY likely. Don't you remember GWI and the aftermath? GHWB mentions that he would support the Kurds if they revolted and then did not support them. Kurds ended up getting massacred and gased by Saddam. Unlikely that the Iraqis would ever have attempted revolt after that. Have another Coke to clear your head.

Any idea that the Iraqi Army would not do what Saddam told them against anyone but is is not based on fact. The Iraqi Army had already fought an unwinnable war against Iran, gased the Kurds, violently put down dissent from the other Muslim sect (I can't rememebr off the top of my head if the "other" sect is sunni or shia - sp?), and invaded Kuwait. The ONLY time the Iraqi Army was a patsy was when they faced us and we were just so superior that they did not have a chance.

hank

[cbreedon]

please read

http://lightfighter.net/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=7336015661&f=5436084761&m=250001896

[Uninen]

please read

http://lightfighter.net/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=7336015661&f=5436084761&m=250001896

Here is what we get:

--

Error

This page is not available. The service for this site has been suspended.

--

:|

[cbreedon]

please read

http://lightfighter.net/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=7336015661&f=5436084761&m=250001896

Here is what we get:

--

Error

This page is not available. The service for this site has been suspended.

--

:|

It was up earlier and I assume will be up soon. Anyway it is a US military board who doesn't like this board and it conspiring to be jerks here. MxxxFxxx is one of them.

I just went back there. The thread has been deleted. The guys there were asking the moderator to delete it so no one over here would know of their "top secret plan".......idiots.

[NcDeuce]

http://www.msu.edu/~couilla3/ninja/godkills.jpg

[Barry McKockiner]

please read

http://lightfighter.net/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=7336015661&f=5436084761&m=250001896

Here is what we get:

--

Error

This page is not available. The service for this site has been suspended.

--

:|

It was up earlier and I assume will be up soon. Anyway it is a US military board who doesn't like this board and it conspiring to be jerks here. MxxxFxxx is one of them.

I just went back there. The thread has been deleted. The guys there were asking the moderator to delete it so no one over here would know of their "top secret plan".......idiots.

Ah, the conspiracy continues...you guys are truly ****ed up!!!