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mustamato
02-15-2004, 07:18 AM
Inspired by the poll about Belgian military I just felt a need to copy the concept and apply it to the finnish military. With the same questions and all.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8844

Just som fast facts, in case of war the finnish defence forces will consist of 490.000 soldiers, of which the army has about 345.000. These are organised into 11 infantry brigades with 6600 soldiers each. 6 jaeger brigades with 5300 soldiers each, 3 readiness brigades with 5300 soldiers each and two armoured brigades with 5700 soldiers each. And also one coastal brigade, although this is organized under the Navy. About 90-95% of all finnish men are given military training due to the mandatory conscription (the rest are criminals, not fit for service, etc). In addition to the brigades there are also local defence batallions.

And now the pics (only Army pics, the Air Force can be found on the link below)

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7417&highlight=finnish+air+force

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/lumimyrsky03/include/thumbnail.php?id=87

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/lumimyrsky03/include/thumbnail.php?id=70

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/lumimyrsky03/include/thumbnail.php?id=71
Ranger UAV

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/lumimyrsky03/include/thumbnail.php?id=93
Sanla, (like sending SMS, but they are encrypted)

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/lumimyrsky03/include/thumbnail.php?id=138

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/peitsi03/include/thumbnail.php?id=35

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/peitsi03/include/thumbnail.php?id=56

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/peitsi03/include/thumbnail.php?id=47
Some well-armed dude, with both the standard light and heavy anti-tank
rocket-launcher, ("M72 LAW" and 112 mm Apilas)

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/peitsi03/include/thumbnail.php?id=117

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/voima03/get2data.php3?id=36

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/voima03/get2data.php3?id=29

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/voima03/get2data.php3?id=27

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/voima03/get2data.php3?id=10
Some candy out in the forest keeps the spirit up

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/voima03/get2data.php3?id=1

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/salama2002/get2data.php3?id=39

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/salama2002/get2data.php3?id=14
Military police

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/saha2002/get2data.php3?id=16

mustamato
02-15-2004, 07:20 AM
http://tietokannat.mil.fi/salama2002/get2data.php3?id=51
AAA

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/ilma2002/get2data.php3?id=60
SAM-system Crotale

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/saha2002/get2data.php3?id=46
T-55M supporting infantry, they are organized as infantry
supporting guns rather than "tanks".

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/ilma2002/get2data.php3?id=48

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/ilma2002/get2data.php3?id=46
Buk M1, the russians actually gave Finland three batallions
of these as payment of loans

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/ilma2002/get2data.php3?id=35
Pissed of civilians behind the column?

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/kiila03/get2data.php3?id=37
CV9030 FIN

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/kiila03/get2data.php3?id=15

http://www2.mil.fi/maavoimat/joukot/tykpr/122_rakh_89.jpg
And finally, since the finnish Air Force is a all-fighter unit, the
army has to give itself the firepower needed. The finnish army has
more than 1000 howitzers and MRLīs, and to that some 2000 (I think)
mortars, 81-120 mm. In the picture a 122 mm MRL.

http://www2.helsinginsanomat.fi/kuvat/uutiset/2003/05/09/20030509yo04i.jpg
And one for Operation Ivy, a Leopard

Parzival
02-15-2004, 07:25 AM
I love Finland, a buetifule country. But there Equiments if you wanna called "sucks".
They got a better fighterplanes then belgium, F-18 is a pretty good fighter. :)
But, Finland tanks, Weapons and other Vhicles is a little bit to old. Finland need more tanks of Leopard. The T-series isn't the best :roll:

mustamato
02-15-2004, 07:31 AM
I love Finland, a buetifule country. But there army and Equiments if you wanna called "sucks".
They got a better fighterplanes then belgium, F-18 is a pretty good fighter.
But, Finland tanks, Weapons and other Vhicles is a little bit to old. Finland need a better tank then The T-series.

Ok are you blind? Much of the equipment I posted is way more advanced
than anything in service in Sweden. And also I do see a picture of a "non T-
series" tank. But since you are 17 and have no experience with the real
swedish army, I guess you will be in for the surprise of your life if you are
actually by some strange reason allowed to do military service, itīs not like
everything is made in the 21th century. On the contrary, much is from the 60īs etc.

Spelling

radon
02-15-2004, 07:32 AM
http://tietokannat.mil.fi/salama2002/get2data.php3?id=51
AAA



Oh not this. why? why? This was laughed at already so many times . :cantbeli: :D

mustamato
02-15-2004, 07:36 AM
http://tietokannat.mil.fi/salama2002/get2data.php3?id=51
AAA



Oh not this. why? why? This was laughed at already so many times . :cantbeli: :D

Haha. But yeah itīs peace-time. Iīm sure they donīt roll into some civilians
backyard with a heavy truck in most countries, and in those countries they
actually do, Iīm sure we can laugh at them :)

Parzival
02-15-2004, 07:55 AM
I love Finland, a buetifule country. But there army and Equiments if you wanna called "sucks".
They got a better fighterplanes then belgium, F-18 is a pretty good fighter.
But, Finland tanks, Weapons and other Vhicles is a little bit to old. Finland need a better tank then The T-series.

Ok are you blind? Much of the equipment I posted is way more advanced
than anything in service in Finland. And also I do see a picture of a "non T-
series" tank. But since you are 17 and have no experience with the real
swedish army, I guess you will be in for the surprise of your life if you are
actually by some strange reason allowed to do military service, itīs not like
everything is made in the 21th century. On the contrary, much is from the 60īs etc.
You can see I have edited my post. Well, You mean Finlands has secret Weapons???? Thatīs intresting. :roll: What have my Military Experence to relation with finlands army?? Stop making yourself stupid.

mustamato
02-15-2004, 07:57 AM
You can see I have edited my post. Well, You mean Finlands has secret Weapons???? Thatīs intresting.

And again, are you blind? Does Sweden have anything that can be
compared with Crotale and Buk M1 in example?

Parzival
02-15-2004, 08:02 AM
You can see I have edited my post. Well, You mean Finlands has secret Weapons???? Thatīs intresting.

What?
Yea, WHAT? I said" Finlands equiment isn't the ebst" You said something like " Hey, you haven't been in the army your idiot". What have my army expirence to do with the finnish army equiment???

LJK
02-15-2004, 08:04 AM
We have good weapons and other equiments but we haven't got much them. :roll: That's the problem.

Parzival
02-15-2004, 08:05 AM
Anyway, This poll is just silly. Even if the equiment is bad, the army could be really good. Stop posting those silly polls!

mustamato
02-15-2004, 08:11 AM
Anyway, This poll is just silly. Even if the equiment is bad, the army could be really good. Stop posting those silly polls!

And what do you know about that? Of course the polls are "silly" because
most people voting donīt have real insight, but itīs interesting to know
what they think. And you are probably just a little " :( " because most
people think that Sweden sucks and donīt have a credible military force. Well, I
think so as well, Sweden donīt.

Parzival
02-15-2004, 08:15 AM
Anyway, This poll is just silly. Even if the equiment is bad, the army could be really good. Stop posting those silly polls!

And what do you know about that? Of course the polls are "silly" because
most people voting donīt have real insight, but itīs interesting to know
what they think. And you are probably just a little " :( " because most
people think that Sweden sucks and donīt have a credible military force. Well, I
think so as well, Sweden donīt.
Do you rally think I care????
Anyway, The british, american, russian, swedish, french.................Yea, they all sucks! :roll:

Marmot1
02-15-2004, 08:51 AM
Vacon this post was about Finns military not about we sux - they sux stop complaining and go back to to topic....

"sniper" tom
02-15-2004, 09:13 AM
don't know anything about the finnish army, they have T72 s - leopard 2A4 s! so this are pretty good tanks for what i know, T72 is getting old or are they updated ?
realy love this pic http://tietokannat.mil.fi/ilma2002/get2data.php3?id=48

mustamato
02-15-2004, 09:24 AM
don't know anything about the finnish army, they have T72 s - leopard 2A4 s! so this are pretty good tanks for what i know, T72 is getting old or are they updated ?
realy love this pic http://tietokannat.mil.fi/ilma2002/get2data.php3?id=48

Well the T-72īs in Finland have some finnish equipment inside, but they
will not get any extra armour and stuff, the reason to why the Leopards were
bought were pretty much to replace the T-72īs. The training of new
conscripts to be crews in T-72 will end in 2005. But refresher training for the
crews will be held in another 10 years or so when they will be removed
from service. I think the T-72 could still be lethal in terrain like the finnish,
we are not talking about the huge vast areas of Iraqi deserts, but forests
and lakes, and small bridges that can take a T-72 but not a Leopard and
so forth. As a defensive weapon the T-72 can still be good.

More finnish T-72 pics:

http://www.ipmsfinland.org/galleria/referenssit/t-72/kuvat/31.jpg

http://www.ipmsfinland.org/galleria/referenssit/t-72/kuvat/35.jpg

http://www.ipmsfinland.org/galleria/referenssit/t-72/kuvat/33.jpg

http://www.ipmsfinland.org/galleria/referenssit/t-72/kuvat/21.jpg

http://www.ipmsfinland.org/galleria/referenssit/t-72/kuvat/25.jpg

http://www.ipmsfinland.org/galleria/referenssit/t-72/kuvat/15.jpg

http://www.ipmsfinland.org/galleria/referenssit/t-72/kuvat/14.jpg

"sniper" tom
02-15-2004, 09:31 AM
the same in belgium, the tanks are pretty old , but if the crew knows ho to use them the best then it doesnt matter ! then we can still kick abrams as !
same thing in finland, a good crew can make al the difference
love those T72 woot

tenda
02-15-2004, 09:57 AM
.............well trained troop's as i can see they're recieving good armament's..... ;) ;) ;)

Uninen
02-15-2004, 10:07 AM
About 90-95% of all finnish men are given military training due to the mandatory conscription (the rest are criminals, not fit for service, etc).

Actually..

"Only" some 80% of each "age groups" mens actually ever finish the service.. :|

Dalleer
02-15-2004, 05:03 PM
Yet again, I give you the "doing most with the least"-speech that seems to be the motto for our armed forces...

Luckily we have been able to acquire some new equipment to go with the older ones, it's just that if it wouldn't have not been for those poor deals to the DDR storages we would have been able to acquire newer equipment alot sooner.

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/hyry2001/get2data.php3?id=94

What comes to these "little birdies" here, a pair of them flew right over our house about a month ago.

The roar of the engines (?) were quite menacing, not to mention what it felt like when a MI-8 flew over...

mustamato
02-15-2004, 05:28 PM
Personally I think it was good that they made that DDR-deal. They sure
got much almost for free. And it was also when they bought those Hornets,
so the alternative to all that from DDR would have been... nothing. It was
not only rusty stored T-72īs that came to Finland then, all kinds of stuff,
of the more important ones:

http://www2.mil.fi/maavoimat/joukot/tykpr/122_h_63a.jpg
The most ordinary piece of artillery in Finland with about 400
or so bought. Most came from DDR-stocks (practically all they had?)

http://www2.mil.fi/maavoimat/joukot/tykpr/122_rakh_89.jpg
And Finland has 90 MRLīs, of which a quite large number was bought
in the early 90īs, hm, I donīt know if they were the RakH 89 or 76īs though

And just in comparison Sweden donīt have a single MRL, and their entire
field artillery consists of 48 field howitzers. So I donīt know if the DDR-
deals was so bad for Finland after all, old yes, but better than nothing? :)

Dalleer
02-15-2004, 05:34 PM
If I can remember correctly, it was the RakH 89's that were bought from the DDR that time.

Now of course the DDR deals had some good sides, but the armored-section of the whole deal could have been done alot better.

Barry McKockiner
02-15-2004, 09:51 PM
Yeah..

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/lumimyrsky03/include/thumbnail.php?id=1

http://www.rekyyli.com/uutiset/military/P6027191.JPG

http://www.rekyyli.com/uutiset/military/P6027208.jpg

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/lumimyrsky02/get2data.php3?id=57

http://koti.mbnet.fi/~jjuvonen/tias2000/f-18_faf1.jpg

http://www2.mil.fi/harjoitukset/ahma/images/new/81terror.jpg

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/hyry2001/get2data.php3?id=88

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/hyry2001/get2data.php3?id=64

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/hyry2001/get2data.php3?id=105

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/voima03/get2data.php3?id=7

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/kiila03/get2data.php3?id=18

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/liisa03/data/images/379_press.jpg

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/hyry2001/get2data.php3?id=94

http://www2.mil.fi/harjoitukset/ahma/images/new/30nantali.jpg

There..

Thats my BIG f*** YOU to all that voted that we suck.. rofl

Dude,
Are you telling me that all the finns are in the KKK? No wonder mustamato is such an asshat!

juhae
02-16-2004, 02:07 AM
Thank you for your great post, however I feel I have to be a bit **** on one tiny detail. :)


About 90-95% of all finnish men are given military training due to the mandatory conscription (the rest are criminals, not fit for service, etc).

Whether the percentage is 90-95% or 80%, not even all of them receive a military training. Given the numbers, I assume that percentage also includes the individuals who chose either non-combatant training (in lack of a better translation, means a basic military training, except without the firearm-training) or alternative military service (which in turn is a part of the conscription just as well, but not a "military service".)

Sorry, just felt it to be a bit extreme to call everybody who hasn't completed their military training as either criminals or unfit (etc.) :)

mustamato
02-16-2004, 05:23 AM
Yeah..

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/lumimyrsky02/get2data.php3?id=57

Dude,
Are you telling me that all the finns are in the KKK?

Someone more than me that gets the feeling of that Barry might be a bit uncultivated?

mustamato
02-16-2004, 05:28 AM
Thank you for your great post, however I feel I have to be a bit **** on one tiny detail. :)


About 90-95% of all finnish men are given military training due to the mandatory conscription (the rest are criminals, not fit for service, etc).

Whether the percentage is 90-95% or 80%, not even all of them receive a military training. Given the numbers, I assume that percentage also includes the individuals who chose either non-combatant training (in lack of a better translation, means a basic military training, except without the firearm-training) or alternative military service (which in turn is a part of the conscription just as well, but not a "military service".)

Sorry, just felt it to be a bit extreme to call everybody who hasn't completed their military training as either criminals or unfit (etc.) :)

I tried to find the statistics Iīve seen earlier on mil.fi, but didnīt have any
succes with that, but I am somehow hooked up on the number 92% of the
agegroup 1985. And of course all do not serve the same year (because of
studies or whatever) and all are not criminals. But it was over 80% atleast,
but hm, I think Uninen was meaning that not more than 80% fullfill the service,
the rest are dropouts?

LJK
02-16-2004, 05:31 AM
The actual percent is about 80% who serve in the army.

RuSoKaR
02-16-2004, 05:41 AM
Finnland has Buk?! :cantbeli:

Uninen you will pay for not telling me :roll:

mustamato
02-16-2004, 05:52 AM
Here is a fanpic for Dalleer. This is how you will look in the military, no
K92 helmets or m/91 uniforms no. I found the pic in a publication from 2004
about new conscripts in FDF. Given the equipment I would guess heīs from
the navy if the picture is new.

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/m62.jpg

mustamato
02-16-2004, 05:53 AM
Finnland has Buk?! :cantbeli:

Uninen you will pay for not telling me :roll:

Yeah, Russia paid of loans from the Soviet era with 3 batallions of Buk M1,
they are used mainly for the defence of Helsinki. The finnish designation
is ItO 96. Some more finnish Buks

http://www.helsinki.fi/~skkuisma/procu_sm.gif
Helsinki skyline in the back

http://www.ilmatorjunta.fi/lohtaja/buk_lavetti_400.jpg

http://www.ilmatorjuntaupseeriyhdistys.fi/3_2000/kuvat/ohjusvaunu.jpg
I think is the combined loader and launching version

http://tesla.rcub.bg.ac.yu/~vmilosev/11tar.jpg
Radar unit within a battery

http://www.hut.fi/~tkorpila/images/general.jpg
Command unit withing a battery

Russian specialists unanimously stated that the Finnish crews had
achieved high standards in training and demonstrated readiness to
engage air targets in a threat-rich air environment.

http://www.milparade.com/1998/25/050.htm

Dalleer
02-16-2004, 05:58 AM
Here is a fanpic for Dalleer. This is how you will look in the military, no
K92 helmets or m/91 uniforms no. I found the pic in a publication from 2004
about new conscripts in FDF. Given the equipment I would guess heīs from
the navy if the picture is new.

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/m62.jpg

My worst nightmare!!

Hook me up with a pair of em' older M/75 boots and I'll look like a reservist trying to get in touch with his younger days...

mustamato
02-16-2004, 06:13 AM
My worst nightmare!!

Hook me up with a pair of em' older M/75 boots and I'll look like a
reservist trying to get in touch with his younger days...

In my uniform collection I always "freeze" the time at one specific year,
makes it easier when collecting, the next time Iīm going to Finland (this
summer hopefully) Iīm going to buy one of those m/62 BDU:s which I
doubt will be any problem. Soviet Union was still around back then in the
late 80īs and the soldiers looked like that.

Hm, but finding a m/62 helmet with cover and those boots is a whole another
matter. Dalleer my old friend, were can I find those? And the combat belt, well,
why even bother now. Given the new combat vest the combat belts will be
easier to get in a couple of years.

Dalleer
02-16-2004, 06:35 AM
Hm, but finding a m/62 helmet with cover and those boots is a whole another
matter. Dalleer my old friend, were can I find those?

You are not making this easy, but I'll give it my best guess...


The M/75 boots are probably the easiest to acquire, if such a term can be used this time.

"Suomen sotilas" might have the boots, but one of the "sure" targets is definately Hämeenlinna, where there's a large "SA int storage/shop" that has everything from the M/75 boots to old rifle stocks.

http://www2.mil.fi/asiointi/tiedotus/ajankohtaista/myydaan/myydaan.dsp

As for the M/62 helmet + cover, I must say that this is a real challenge. I used to have one of the M/62 helmets with the cover a few months ago, but I sold it...

Umm, you wouldn't like to have a K96 helmet with the appropriate cover instead??

Ian H
02-16-2004, 06:36 AM
This seems as good a place as any to ask. What was Finland's relationship with the west and east during the Cold War?

I know your military uses a lot of Soviet origin equipment, but also that your political system is liberal democratic and so you must have had some freedom in that respect. I apologise for asking this, you'd think with one of the world's best International Politics Departments 5 minutes walk away I'd be able to find this out for myself, but I've found nothing.

Thanks in advance

Dalleer
02-16-2004, 06:59 AM
I know your military uses a lot of Soviet origin equipment, but also that your political system is liberal democratic and so you must have had some freedom in that respect.

Yes well, our army has always been a strange mix between the west and the east, in terms of equipment.

But I'd say that some of the Russian equipment we've bought has been acquired only due to political relations, and some stuff for loan payments and so on.

Now the question of course remains, why did we buy Leopard 2A4's if T90's would have been available?

That would undoubtebly be a decision made due to political reasons this time, but it seems that we try to "pick the best of the both worlds" for our army.


What was Finland's relationship with the west and east during the Cold War?

Well, alot of the Finns could agree that we were alot more "pro-east" during the coldwar, but I'd still like to think us as something balancing in the middle.

mustamato
02-16-2004, 07:50 AM
Well I would say that Finland wanted to be part of the west, and in many
ways actually also was, if Finland could have decided themselves I guess
they would have been even more western. But Finland has a quite big
neighbour and what Moscow thinks was of course quite important. Iīve
read that the largest KGB-office outside Soviet Union was actually in Helsinki,
and that says a lot, doesnīt it?

http://www.uta.fi/~ma54441/ukkklippu.gif
Finlands president under the most of the cold war, he was good at
balancing western and soviet-friendly politics. Some have called him
to soft towards Moscow, but personally I think he was just a realist.

It was thanks to men like him that Finland could stay out of total Soviet
controll. When Soviet Union still existed Finland could gain from being
part of "both worlds". However, when Soviet Union and its economy
crashed, so did Finland due to the large trade. Usually Finland got oil
and the Soviets got finnish-made ships and other high-quality products.
Many of these Soviet weapons to Finland was part of this kind of trade,
such as the T-54/T55/ZU-57-2 armour deal in the 60īs. Russia still have
huge debts to Finland from the Soviet era. Some have been paid of with
more weapons (SA-11 Buk M1 SAMīs in example), but in the future when
Russians economy gets better I think that Finland will again gain from being
part of "both worlds" and being a neighbour with Russia. Finnish technology
traded against russian... hm, steel?


@Dalleer, SA-kauppa in Hämeenlinna seems to be the way to go.

juhae
02-16-2004, 07:50 AM
Well, alot of the Finns could agree that we were alot more "pro-east" during the coldwar, but I'd still like to think us as something balancing in the middle.
Not as pro-east as Hungary, Poland & co., not as neutral as Sweden or Switzerland, not as pro-West as the rest, but somewhere between Sweden/Switzerland and the "pro-east" league.

Agreed?

Uninen
02-16-2004, 07:53 AM
Now the question of course remains, why did we buy Leopard 2A4's if T90's would have been available?

That would undoubtebly be a decision made due to political reasons this time, but it seems that we try to "pick the best of the both worlds" for our army.

This my friend arent true anymore, they actually held tests, had LEO, T-90 and Two different modified T-72s one from Russia, one from Ukraine, T-90 actually was shown to be best suited for us, but Leo was chosen because "T-90s were more costly" and had no thermal viewer..

:roll:

And what i have to say to this.. well of couse you can get used surplus TANKS for cheaper than you can get NEW ones.. also, i really dont know that in earth they mean that T-90 had/has no thermal viewer?

rofl

As:

http://www.rusarm.ru/products/army/t_90s.htm

Even the T-90S they had on tests:

Fire Control Systems


Target detection and high precision aimed fire are conducted, at any time of day and night, from stationary or moving tank both by the gunner and tank commander with the help of the 1A45T integrated fire-control system. The IFCS comprises the gunner's day/night fire-control system, gunner's IR sight or thermal imaging sight, and commander's day/night sight-observation system. The fire control system comprises day sight-rangefinder with missile guidance channel, armament stabilizer and ballistic computer. The commander's day/night sight-observation system is used by the commander for gun and machine gun fire control.

And,

I belive they have not bought anything "non-western" for long time now.. they even discontinued the production of scores of top-of-the-line domestic weapons, Like SAKO's 7,62 RK 95TP or M/95 assault rifle..

:cantbeli:

In our beutiful land, the moron's called as politics have too much control over issues they dont know anything about..

To the COLD war..

We were in fact "neutral" and both USSR and USA had some of their ICBMs targeted here.. so i guess, we were kinda alone.. :|

Uninen
02-16-2004, 07:58 AM
http://www.uta.fi/~ma54441/ukkklippu.gif

Oh yeah, our own dictator.. this guy was our "president" for 25 years!

rofl :cantbeli:

Dalleer
02-16-2004, 08:17 AM
Not as pro-east as Hungary, Poland & co., not as neutral as Sweden or Switzerland, not as pro-West as the rest, but somewhere between Sweden/Switzerland and the "pro-east" league.

Agreed?

Agreed, the Sweden/Switzerland ideology applies to us as well.


T-90 actually was shown to be best suited for us, but Leo was chosen because "T-90s were more costly" and had no thermal viewer..

Yes, but is it possible to somehow "build" a thermal viewer to a T90 and more importantly what comes to the price, "the poor should never buy anything crappy" is a fitting 'slogan' this time.

Not that the Leopard 2A4 would be crap, but when it comes to our army it would have probably been alot better to pay big this time and acquire something that doesn't have to be replaced all the time.

Not that the Leopard 2A4 would have to be replaced for a long time either, but...


EDIT: And since we are talking about King Kekkonen, here's a keeper:

http://www.chaplin.ee/fotod/kekkonen_v.jpg

He ownzzored us all at one time!!!

Uninen
02-16-2004, 08:39 AM
Älä osta toisen vanhaa.. ;)

Basicly,

If you buy something, but dont have "all that money", you better buy something new.. and not to do instant purchases at the "flea market".. :cantbeli:

Dalleer
02-16-2004, 08:44 AM
Älä osta toisen vanhaa.. ;)

Basicly,

If you buy something, but dont have "all that money", you better buy something new.. and not to do instant purchases at the "flea market".. :cantbeli:

Kuka puhui vanhan ostamisesta mitään?

As I've understood, the Leopard 2A4's we bought were in "used" condition, but nevermind that.

Additionally, we could have "hit it big" and order new T90's but that thing would have probably costed too much, it would have probably rolled some more (badly needed) money to the Russian arms market.

Uninen
02-16-2004, 08:57 AM
I just said.. as its a "saying..", that seems to be forgotten by few "in power"...

Anyhow, Leopard 2 A4s were both Used and Surplus...........

And they are also going cost more that the initial payment indicates.. as they are going to modify them to the level of Strv 122 / Leo 2 A6..

(Or so have i understood..)

But in the end does it even matter.. as they are going to close down armored brigades, and use ALL MBTs / IFVs as infranty support.. :|

They just dont have any clue.. :|

mustamato
02-16-2004, 10:25 AM
And they are also going cost more that the initial payment indicates.. as they are going to modify them to the level of Strv 122 / Leo 2 A6..

Wooot wooot woooot, where have you heard this? The danes have modified
their Leopard 2A4īs, they bought 51 used ones from Germany (so, all the
Leopard 2A4īs in the nordic countries are ex-Bundeswehr :) )

http://www.armyvehicles.dk/images/leopard2a4.jpg
Danish Leopard 2A4 as they were...

http://www.armyvehicles.dk/images/leopard2a5dk.jpg
... and a modified one, designated Leopard 2A5DK.

"Key elements of the upgrade are:
- Primarily an improvement of the passive protection of the crew and the tank.
- Secondly an improvement of the TCīs working environment and his possibilities of using the tank in different circumstances.
- Technical upgrading as required when adding/replacing armor.
- Arrangements to ensure future upgrading of the tank."

The project is worth 855 mill. DKr. And thatīs only for 51 tanks. Hm, upgrading
the finnish ones (to the same standard or even more) wonīt be cheap.

Dalleer
02-16-2004, 10:58 AM
A bit offtopic, but where can you acquire one of them Swedish M/90 colored helmet covers?

http://www.soldf.com/images/s_hjalm90_dok.jpg

This one, but I'm sure you know what I mean already, Mustamato.

Uninen
02-16-2004, 11:02 AM
How much is that in Euros? :)

Also,

They have always said: "Need to upgrade.." and seriously, look at the turret on A4.. rofl So i suppose that their "modification" will include some "uparmoring".. ;)

But im just guessing..

mustamato
02-16-2004, 12:55 PM
How much is that in Euros? :)

Well, if the finnish Leopards were to get the same upgrade as the danish
ones, and the cost per unit would be the same, then the upgrade of the
124 Leopards would cost 279 million Euro. Probably more since the
danish upgrade is done in Germany. So never say never, but upgrading
the A4īs ainīt gonna happen in the near future. Perhaps in about ten
years when the T-72M1īs is removed from service. Perhaps.


A bit offtopic, but where can you acquire one of them Swedish M/90 colored helmet covers?

http://www.soldf.com/images/s_hjalm90_dok.jpg

This one, but I'm sure you know what I mean already, Mustamato.

There is a army shop here in my town that has the m/90-helmet, I donīt
know if they sell only the cover, but I can check with them tomorrow.
Otherwise I donīt really know. And are you interested in one with or
without the "curtains"? And size M?

Uninen
02-16-2004, 01:46 PM
279 million Euro.

They bought those Leopards for "less than 100 million Euros"..

And they used their basic budget to do this, with no "special purchase money" given.. :)

So.. ;)

And i suppose that the Leos will be upgraded between 2005 to 2015.. as they are planning to use em till the end of 2020s or 2030s.. :|

Maybe theyll even upgrade them twice.....................

Dalleer
02-16-2004, 01:58 PM
And are you interested in one with or
without the "curtains"? And size M?

I don't mind for the curtains, as long as it's one that fits a PASGT/kevlar/Composite/ etc. helmet and that's in M/90.

And size M, yes.