Manfred "Fokker" Rietsch (USMC)

[toki]

I just found this thinking about another thread (Callsigns). I have a pic of him at home sitting in his cockpit, open canopy and you can read his name on the side of the plane. Always liked his Call sign.

Now i found out he has an outstanding Background:
found on http://www.au.af.mil/au/goe/eaglebios/93bios/rietsc93.htm

Manfred A. Rietsch
http://www.au.af.mil/au/goe/images/faces/93faces/rietsc93.gif

SETTING: Marine Aircraft Group 11 (MAG-11) was the first Marine aviation combat element to arrive in the Gulf. It was the Marine Corps' largest-ever air group with 13 tactical squadrons, operating McDonnell Douglas F/A-18s, Grumman A-6s and EA-6Bs, and Lockheed KC-130s. Its first task was aerial defense of the Marines on Bahrain and US Navy ships. During the ground war, MAG-11 suppressed Iraqi artillery and attacked Iraqi armored and mechanized vehicles. Without loss of aircrew or aircraft, MAG-11 accomplished 7,500 combat missions and dropped 18 million pounds of ordnance.

Manfred A. Rietsch flew more than 700 jetfighter combat missions during his 24-year career in the United States Marine Corps. Born in East Germany, Rietsch immigrated to the United States in December 195 6. He graduated from the University of Minnesota and, in March 1966, entered Marine Officer Candidates School. After earning his wings at Naval Air Station (NAS) Kingsville, Texas, Rietsch was assigned to Marine Corps Air Station (MCAS) Cherry Point, North Carolina, for duty in McDonnell F-4 Phantom IIs. In 1968, after only 10 months flying fighters, he reported to Chu Lai AB, Republic of Vietnam. During his extended tour in Southeast Asia, Rietsch flew 653 combat missions. He received the Distinguished Flying Cross and 53 Air Medals. Back in the States, Rietsch served a tour with Marine Fighter Attack-53 I at MCAS El Toro, California, again flying F-4s. In January 1973, he attended the Marine Amphibious Warfare School, Quantico, Virginia. Next, he went to the Navy Fighter Weapons School at NAS Miramar, California, where he became the school's first Marine fighter-tactics instructor. During his "Top Gun" assignment, Rietsch served as Administrative Officer, Training Officer, and Operations Officer and earned a Master of Science degree in Systems Management from the University of Southern California. In early 1977, Rietsch was assigned to MCAS Kaneohe Bay, Hawaii, serving first as an operations officer, and then as an executive officer. His tour included two six-month deployments to the western Pacific. Next, he spent three years in Kolsas, Norway, as the Air Operations Officer on the Staff of NATO's Commander, Allied Forces Northern Europe. In 1984, Rietsch returned to MCAS El Toro to command a McDonnell Douglas F/A- 1 8 Hornet unit, which he led to Egypt in 1985. After graduation from Air War College in June 1987, Rietsch served as the Military Assistant and Marine Corps Aide to the Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Manpower and Reserve Affairs in Washington, DC In February 1990, he returned to MCAS El Toro to command Marine Aircraft Group I 1. Six months later he led the group to Sheik Isa AB, Bahrain, for Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm. During Desert Shield, Rietsch flew II 8 combat air patrols and, during Desert Storm, he flew 66 combat missions. This is believed to be the most combat sorties flown by any pilot during the conflict. In July 199 1, Rietsch brought MAG- I II back to California, and on I April 1992, he retired from the Marine Corps. He concluded his career after logging nearly 7000 flight hours in tactical jet aircraft. He earned six more Air Medals and the Order of Bahrain, 2nd Class, for his service during the Gulf conflict. *


another source (http://www.airartnw.com/jollyroger.htm) says
"Colonel MANFRED RIETSCH
Manfred Rietsch joined the U.S. Marine Corps in 1966, later joining VMFA-513 in Vietnam. Flying the F-4 Phantom he had his first combat in 1968, and by the end of his tour had flown 653 combat missions - more than any other F-4 pilot in Vietnam. He became the first Marine instructor at Top Gun in 1973, and more recently flew 66 combat missions in the F/A-18 during Desert Storm. In all he has 7000 hours in tactical jets."

THINK ABOUT IT: MOST COMBAT MISSIONS OF ANY PILOT IN TWO CONFLICTS!!!

[Maj C]

I heard a lecture from him in 91 after he got back. I was wondering why he had such a thick German accent. He showed a bunch of pictures of charred Iraqi's from the highway of death...he was pretty enthusiastic about all the destruction he caused.

I can't remember his name but there's another USMC pilot named "von" something..will have to try and look him up.

Also a bit of trivia...the Maj Paulus that was involved in a prisoner abuse scandal is related to Field Marshal Paulus of Stalingrad infamy.

[toki]

I heard a lecture from him in 91 after he got back. I was wondering why he had such a thick German accent.
Now that surprises me. If you hear exchange students after a year you won't find much of an accent and he emigrated in the 50's.

[Maj C]

Now that surprises me. If you hear exchange students after a year you won't find much of an accent and he emigrated in the 50's.

I think sometimes people just keep their accent to remind them of their roots...

The yearbook photographer at MCRD San Diego was German (former flakhelfer in his youth) came to US and joined Marines in the 50's. He was invariably nicknamed "Dutch". He still spoke with a thick accent too. Maybe it's just as native speakers we notice it more.

[Kitsune]

Yeah, that is one mystery I couldn't solve to this date. What is it with this "Dutch" thing? I have heard Americans calling Germans that again and again. But why "Dutch" as in "Hollander"?

[Macs.]

Maybe "Deutsch" turned to "Dutch" ?

[Kitsune]

Hmmm, yeah. That might explain it.
















But it must be rather annoying to be mistaken for one of those cheese eaters for all your life...:P

[toki]

Yeah, that is one mystery I couldn't solve to this date. What is it with this "Dutch" thing? I have heard Americans calling Germans that again and again. But why "Dutch" as in "Hollander"?


Maybe "Deutsch" turned to "Dutch" ?

Hmmm, yeah. That might explain it.

it does, but don't ask me exactly how. The old nobility didn't really care about our modern nation states. "Dutch" is a pretty old word and it comes definetly from 'deutsch'. Think about how our countries looked like 300 years ago: Hundreds of pieces (Flickenteppich) of aristocratic "governments". Who's 'deutsch' and who not wasn't that clear as it is today. The importance of nationalism came later. And when you think of the national anthem of the netherlands:

Lyrics of ca. 1570

Wilhelmus van Nassouwe
Ben ik van Duitsen bloed,
Den vaderland getrouwe
Blijf ik tot in den dood;
Een Prince van Oranjen
Ben ik, vrij onverveerd,
Den Koning van Hispanjen
Heb ik altijd geeerd.

...

duits as in the word duitsland = germany.
The nobility was connected all over europe, so being of german blood doesn't surprie here. Think about the windsors ;-)

[Maj C]

some reasons...this is in reference to calling certain people in Pennsylvania "Pennslyvania Dutch"

I don't know why President Reagan was nicknamed "Dutch" he was Irish...


1. In the 15th and 16th centuries, the English referred to all people of germanic heritage as Dutch or Dutchmen regardless of whether they came from the Netherlands or from lands now known as Germany. If differentiated, however, they were referred to by the English as the Low Dutch (Low German) for the Netherlanders and the High Dutch (High German) for the Germans and German speaking Swiss, referring to the elevation of their native lands. However, after the United Provinces (the Netherlands) became an independent state, and competition and even wars developed between England and the Netherlands, the English language terms for these two people began to diverge such that by the 17th century the Netherlanders were referred to as the Dutch and the people from areas now in Germany where referred to as Germans. Thus, some theorize that the phrase Pennsylvania Dutch is a linguistic carry over from the earlier, broader usage of the word Dutch.

2. The German word for German is "Deutsch". Thus, if a person described themselves as a Pennsylvania "Deutschman", he meant Pennsylvania German. Thus, recent generations of English speaking people in the United States, corrupted the ****unciation and spelling to Pennsylvania "Dutchman".

3. The Dutch predominantly settled in New Amsterdam (now New York). The Germans predominantly settled in southeastern Pennsylvania, in the inland counties of Northampton, Berks, Lancaster, Lehigh, Montgomery, Bucks, and others. Some very early Palatine German refugees were settled in New York by the British. However, most of these eventually migrated overland to Pennsylvania where William Penn offered religious freedom and better treatment. The languages sound similar to the untrained ear. Because of similarities in the sound of the language, some people theorize that the Pennsylvania Germans were called Pennsylvania Dutch by the English to differentiate them geographically from the similar sounding New York Dutch.

4. Most of the German immigrants sailed to Pennsylvania from Dutch ports, such as Rotterdam and Amsterdam in Holland, after coming down the Rhine River from Germany. Thus, English speaking people may have confused them as being Dutch because the ship lists reported they embarked for the new world from Dutch ports. Thus, some people may have incorrectly thought these Palatine Germans and other German speaking people were Dutch.

5. Dutch Reformed congregations in New York and Holland provided financial and spiritual assistance to the early German Reformed congregations in Pennsylvania due to their shared spiritual beliefs. Dutch ministers, who were also fluent in German, preached to the early PA German settlers in order to insure the Reformed faith was nurtured and grew in the early settlements until such time as the German Reformed Church was solidly established. With the Dutch church heavily involved with the early settlers, this could have further confused the true heritage of these early German speaking settlers as viewed by the English speaking settlers.

Whatever the exact reason for the improper identification of their true heritage, it took root, even among the descendants of the Pennsylvania Germans themselves. This was aided by the decline of the use of the German language by these people. It also gained more acceptance during the two world wars with Germany, when many Pennsylvania Germans did not discourage the confusion of their true ancestry because of the large public backlash against people of German sympathy and nationality, which occured in this country during the wars. Many of the more recent Germans who arrived in the USA from the modern country of Germany in the late 1800's and early 1900's were openly sympathetic to German causes in the time periods just prior to both WWI and WWII. So the PA Germans, who by the 1900's had very, very deep roots in Pennsylvania, politically and socially wanted to distance themselves from these newly arrived nationalistic Germans who strongly identified with the political issues and positions of the "fatherland". So the PA Germans did not mind being called PA Dutch in those times. The PA Dutch moniker differentiated them from the more nationalistic recent Germans immigrants and thus it somewhat protected the PA Germans from the backlash against the recent nationalistic German immigrants which occured when the wars started.

[toki]

@Maj C:

Wow, that explains it all. I just saw it from the european standpoint and the nobility. A question: did you elabourate that earlier or did you just write it down sppontaneously? It's so detailed.

Thanks!!!

If i could right now i'd give you +rep ;-)

[KB]

I read somewhere once that there are more Americans of German ancestry than any other; something like 60-70 million IIRC.

There was another Marine Corps officer of German ancestry I am aware of.
LtCol Klaus Schreiber. Was CO of 3/4 when I met him. Navy Cross citation attached.

Schreiber, Klaus D.
First Lieutenant, U.S. Marine Corps
Co. C, 1st Recon Bn., 1st Marine Division
Date of Action: October 14, 1967

Citation:
The Navy Cross is awarded to First Lieutenant Klaus D. Schreiber, United States Marine Corps, for extraordinary heroism as a Patrol Leader with Company C, First Reconnaissance Battalion, First Marine Division (Reinforced), in Thu Thien Province, Republic of Vietnam, on 14 October 1967. While he was leading a twelve-man reconnaissance patrol, north of Da Nang, First Lieutenant (then Second Lieutenant) Schreiber's patrol came under a devastating machine-gun and automatic weapons attack from a numerically superior enemy force. The initial burst of fire killed two men and wounded another. He repeatedly exposed himself to the heavy enemy fire to position his men on line and direct their fire. With complete disregard for his own safety, he crawled forward, through the intense enemy fire to bring back a fellow comrade who was mortally wounded. When his radio operator was wounded, First Lieutenant Schreiber took over the radio and established communications and tended the wounded man. Hearing the cries of the frenzied Viet Cong, he ordered his men to deliver full automatic fire into the oncoming enemy hordes. Observing that he was in the most advantageous position to throw hand grenades, he ordered his men to pass their grenades to him, and standing upright, in full view of the enemy, hurled grenade after grenade into the frenzied enemy charge. Again, with complete disregard for his own safety, he stood up to pinpoint his position, amidst the enemy fire, enabling aircraft to bombard the enemy positions. He called in napalm and strafing runs to within 25 meters of his position in an attempt to neutralize the enemy force, which was trying to penetrate his defensive position. For eight more hours, he directed earth-shattering air support around his position, and the explosions from their ordnance hurled his men to the ground. As the aircraft ordnance rocked the enemy positions, an attempt was made for medical evacuation of the casualties, but because of intense ground fire, he was forced to expose himself to enemy fire to warn off approaching aircraft. As a company-sized reaction force pushed forward into his position, he directed their fire and advance upon the enemy positions. By his bold initiative, gallant fighting spirit and loyal devotion to duty, First Lieutenant Schreiber was instrumental in defeating an estimated battalion of North Vietnamese regulars, reflecting great credit upon himself and the Marine Corps and upholding the finest traditions of the United States Naval Service.

[KB]

Correction-LtCol. Schreiber was CO of 2/4.

[Maj C]

I just recalled that there were people in the US called Pennsylvania Dutch and googled them...the explanation was there. No way I knew all that!

[Vandervahn]

I read somewhere once that there are more Americans of German ancestry than any other; something like 60-70 million IIRC. ...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries.jpg/543px-Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries.jpg

Makes that legend of the 2 voices that chose English over German as official USA language more believable ;)

[sp2c]

it does, but don't ask me exactly how. The old nobility didn't really care about our modern nation states. "Dutch" is a pretty old word and it comes definetly from 'deutsch'. Think about how our countries looked like 300 years ago: Hundreds of pieces (Flickenteppich) of aristocratic "governments". Who's 'deutsch' and who not wasn't that clear as it is today. The importance of nationalism came later. And when you think of the national anthem of the netherlands:

Lyrics of ca. 1570


duits as in the word duitsland = germany.
The nobility was connected all over europe, so being of german blood doesn't surprie here. Think about the windsors ;-)
well no actually, germany didn't exist back then afaik it was a whole bunch of little country's or something like that.

the original lyrics say 'Ben ik van Dietschen bloed which was something else

it was changed later on because nobody used the term anymore and prince willem of orange was in fact german

[Maj C]

Probably accounts for the strong Protestant work ethic among Americans...as one of my old CO's used to say "Rast ich, so rost ich"

[toki]

well no actually, germany didn't exist back then afaik it was a whole bunch of little country's or something like that.

the original lyrics say 'Ben ik van Dietschen bloed which was something else

it was changed later on because nobody used the term anymore and prince willem of orange was in fact german

That's what i was saying. But the word deutsch existed. (Holy roman empire of german nation" - the "german" was added early 1500). It was a loose group of states under this name.

i have a interesting link:

Interessanterweise benutzt Englische Sprache noch heute den niederdeutschen Wortursprung von "deutsch" (dutch) für die dütschen Menschen der niederen Landen (frühere Selbstbezeichnung der Niederlande)
old german (Niederdeutsch) for "deutsch": "dütsch". The netherlanders called themselves dütsch people of the lower lands. Niederdeutsch is an old form of german and also a root of the modern dutch language.

Face it, we're much closer then you want. ;-)


http://www.ratgeber-lexikon.de/informationen/Deutsch_in_anderen_Sprachen.shtml

[Kitsune]

@Maj C:

Thanks !!! That's what I call great service. :grin:

[sp2c]

That's what i was saying. But the word deutsch existed. (Holy roman empire of german nation" - the "german" was added early 1500). It was a loose group of states under this name.

i have a interesting link:

old german (Niederdeutsch) for "deutsch": "dütsch". The netherlanders called themselves dütsch people of the lower lands. Niederdeutsch is an old form of german and also a root of the modern dutch language.

yes true but the Netherlands (the nationstates for lack of a better world) were basically part of this loose group of states (not really but it came very close in reality) so saying Dietsch equals Duits is not true imo

It's like saying Belgian origins are Dutch ... it's close but no banana ;)



Face it, we're much closer then you want. ;-)

http://www.ratgeber-lexikon.de/informationen/Deutsch_in_anderen_Sprachen.shtml

don't think that's possible because I love germany, I go there at least once a year to drink massive amounts of beer and I still have a piece of concrete salvaged from some obscure wall that was being destroyed by drunken hooligans in Berlin :D

just don't like germans ;)

kidding of course ... but still

[toki]

yes true but the Netherlands (the nationstates for lack of a better world) were basically part of this loose group of states (not really but it came very close in reality) so saying Dietsch equals Duits is not true imo

It's like saying Belgian origins are Dutch ... it's close but no banana ;)



don't think that's possible because I love germany, I go there at least once a year to drink massive amounts of beer and I still have a piece of concrete salvaged from some obscure wall that was being destroyed by drunken hooligans in Berlin :D

just don't like germans ;)

kidding of course ... but still
no problem there wasn't anything negative intented. Cheers and merry christmas.

[sp2c]

same to you :)

now I'm off to watch a (coincidentally german) movie :D

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000942MF.03._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[Freibier]

Well the dutch are our lost brothers that somehow always sided with the wrong guys p-)

[sp2c]

might have something to do with you guys firebombing Rotterdam?

that'll piss people off you know ;)

[Freibier]

Yeah, that was a bad move.
But ironically when talking with dutch about WWII the thing I hear the most is
"we want our bicycles back" :)

[toki]

Yeah, that was a bad move.
But ironically when talking with dutch about WWII the thing I hear the most is
"we want our bicycles back" :)

yep,
"i want my fiets back!!!"
My favourite dutch word besides frikandel is bromfiets (moped)!
:)

[dez000]

yes true but the Netherlands (the nationstates for lack of a better world) were basically part of this loose group of states (not really but it came very close in reality) so saying Dietsch equals Duits is not true imo

It's like saying Belgian origins are Dutch ... it's close but no banana ;)




Well... the Flemish Belgians are closely related to ya Dutch... seeing as we were part of the 17 Provinces once ;) But earlier most of modern Flanders was part of the Holy Roman Empire, and another large part of France (tho they didnt like it and mostly revolted against the French p-) )

So yea we're closely related to each other and the Germans... tho we Flemish are the improved better version p-)

[sp2c]

Yeah, that was a bad move.
But ironically when talking with dutch about WWII the thing I hear the most is
"we want our bicycles back" :)
my grandfather told me a funny story about this

the whole 'give me my bike back!' was a stab below the waste (it's a figure of speech, don't know if that exists in english). At end of the war the german troops stationed here (except those inside the vesting Holland who were pretty much stuck untill the end of the war) stole bikes and basically anything that gets them to go faster then their (usually) two feet to leave the country (in shame!!! muhahahaha) and get away from the angry populace (or the allied troops)

so everytime a german claimed to have done something awe inspiring or superior or beat us at soccer they'd ask them about the bikes ;)

[Hemaworstje]

yes ,and still we scratch german cars, bend their antenna's , send them in the wrong directions and give them parkingtickets as fast as we can...
I drive a german licensed plate car in the Netherlands, no way i park that car in Amsterdam.

[Vandervahn]

German cars by license plate or even generic cars of german production?

[sp2c]

every vehicle in general ... my sister just had her window kicked off for the second time in 6 months and she drives a japanese car!

[towelie]

germans make damn fine soldiers

[toki]

yes ,and still we scratch german cars, bend their antenna's , send them in the wrong directions and give them parkingtickets as fast as we can...
I drive a german licensed plate car in the Netherlands, no way i park that car in Amsterdam.
I visited a (dutch) friend in amsterdam. He lives on Reguliersgracht. I parked my car in Broek in waterland at another friends place and took a bus in the city. First it costs you an arm and leg to park it there for a week, second finding a decent place near the house was impossible and leaving it near a gracht and near the clubs were drunken dutch kids can scratch and piss on it wasn't an option
:lol:

[Freibier]

They broke into my car once in rotterdam, the car was parked right across the hotel - of course nobody heard or saw anything :lol:
It's good to have a good insurance, damn cloggies ;)

[Hemaworstje]

he its not old cloggies , i have seen elderly men do it to , the germans in average are not so hmm welcome, not only because of the war, their and our mentally collide, the first thing a german does on our beaches is to dig a hole so he has lebesraum , and put towels at 05.00 at the beachchairs so they are certain they can sit down the whole day, first thing a german says on mulitplayergames is , Gibt es noch Deutsche hier? any krauts in here? now I can name a whole list of Dutch dna problems , but to proud to admit them. I drive a dutch car and a german plated car at various times in both countries , so always fun.


and yes I am generalising here, sorry germans ,, we all do.

[Freibier]

Well,
I always enjoy your country anyway :)

[sp2c]

as you should ... just don't come here by car or bike and don't order no german beer :D

and if you come by plane, land at rotterdam airport, don't do that crap with the waterplanes no more!

[Kitsune]

@Hemaworstje

It's not that Dutch would be only liked in Germany, either. The Hollander's habit to seek out Lebensraum on German Autobahns when all inhabitants of the Netherlands travel south at the beginning of the summer holidays with their trailers to see an ground elevation that is higher than 40 meters...is notorious. Those 16.3 million southbound caravans are quite some sight every year.
Kaaskopp's, all of you.

But since my Grandma was Dutch and I am therefore something like a quarter-dutch, I forgive you. At least this heritage gives me a handy excuse for my numerous annoying habits. (I sometimes feel the urge in me to get a trailer of my own and drive very slowly on the left track of an Autobahn...but until now I have managed to keep this dark side of mine under control.) p-)

[Freibier]

Warum gibts keine holländischen Astronauten?
Weils Space Shuttle keine Anhängerkupplung hat ! rofl

[crietsch]

I think it's really funny that there is a giant "blog" about my father :)

[BadMastard]

[QUOTE=toki;1339156]I just found this thinking about another thread (Callsigns). I have a pic of him at home sitting in his cockpit, open canopy and you can read his name on the side of the plane. Always liked his Call sign.


Worked with him in VMFA 531. One of the most talented pilots in the world. During a dogfight (peacetime-training) with a f-16 he was busy whistling "whistle while you work" while keeping his gun sight locked on the f1-6 no matter what the f-16 was doing... quite fun to watch on the HUD cam.

[RSone]

POST Deleted