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memphiz
12-27-2005, 06:01 PM
MORE than 500 army troops, backed by helicopters, armoured vehicles and artillery, will turn downtown Winnipeg into an armed camp as part of a military exercise to train soldiers for the modern battlefield.

Exercise Charging Bison will unfold for seven days and nights beginning April 30 next year in what is believed to be the largest urban warfare training exercise of its kind ever held in Canada.

There won't be live ammunition, but there will be laser weapons and a variety of blanks and 'simunition' -- or simulated munitions -- that make noise and smoke or discharge harmless projectiles.

The drill is designed to simulate the kind of complex conditions soldiers would encounter in places such as Afghanistan and Iraq, where conventional warfare is conducted simultaneously with humanitarian relief operations and nation-building, said Col. Kelly Woiden, commander of 38 Brigade.

Urban battlefields are sometimes known as "three-block wars" because troops could help people on one block, fight insurgents on another, and guard convoys on another, Woiden explained.

Who: The operation is run by 38 Brigade.
Why: It’s designed to train troops in urban warfare.
Where: A base camp will be set up on the western edge of the city, but most of the exercises will take place in the downtown.
When: Day and night between April 30 and May 6.

"We're going to create a realistic environment of the situation that individual soldiers can face today," he said. "You could be doing humanitarian relief one moment and then fighting a war the next. It is the most complicated terrain for a soldier."

The operation is also part of a long-term plan to prepare 200 of the brigade's soldiers to support a 1,000-person task force in 2008, if necessary, he said.

The 38 Brigade is a reserve unit responsible for a dozen formations in Saskatchewan, Manitoba and northwestern Ontario.

It will provide most of the personnel for the exercise, although some will come from British Columbia and Alberta, and possibly from the United States, Woiden said, adding 17 Wing will also provide logistics support.

About 100 police officers and civilians will be given a role in the exercise, either as opposing forces or relief organizations.

The military may also recruit drama students from the University of Manitoba to play the roles of demonstrators or insurgents.

"The purpose is to learn and we may rerun the same scenario several times," Woiden said.

The operation will occupy a large swath of downtown Winnipeg from Balmoral Street on the west, south to the Assiniboine River, north to the CP Rail tracks and east into The Forks and St. Boniface.

Woiden said the exercise is still in the planning stages and the boundaries could change.

A base camp will be established on the western edge of the city, but there will be smaller camps downtown, he said.

The exercise will continue night and day, but Woiden said he did not anticipate any significant disruption of traffic or commercial operations.

Military observers will keep score and determine who was killed and who was wounded during the exercise.

"This is different than traditional training when the infantry were facing open ground in front of them, with soldiers in a different uniform," Woiden said. "This is much more complex because we don't know who the enemy is or where the threats are."

Reserve units have been used in the past to fill out the ranks of the regular force, but Woiden said the military now wants the militia trained to higher level of combat readiness.

Howitz
12-27-2005, 06:11 PM
that's interesting, but i gotta wonder...

can you imagine what kind of a ****storm would go up if the US Army did this here?

rhino
12-27-2005, 06:15 PM
that's interesting, but i gotta wonder...

can you imagine what kind of a ****storm would go up if the US Army did this here?

well US armed forces have financing to build little cities right on the bases, we have to use whats availablep-)

Bombtrack
12-27-2005, 06:17 PM
That sounds awesome

Not sure about the good Col.'s explanation about the 3-block war

Abolith
12-27-2005, 06:21 PM
sweet... sounds like a worthwhile excercise.

BloodyTalon
12-27-2005, 06:23 PM
that's interesting, but i gotta wonder...

can you imagine what kind of a ****storm would go up if the US Army did this here?
Depends on the city.

If it was San Diego or Colorado Springs or any city with a sizable military base, it wouldn't be a big problem. In fact, i bet the civies in the city would volunteer to help (I know I would).

But if it takes place in San Fransico, Seattle, New York, or Los Angeles, than things would be interesting (and funny). First left-wing websites like Salon, Daily Kos, and HuffingtonPost would be buzzing with horrible news of how the neocons in the whitehouse have secretly turned the US into a Facist police state beginning with the military occupation of <insert city here>. Then the news would come out that this is just a military exercise. But that won't help either. Cindy Sheehan will sit in front of the Whitehouse demanding that the present stop the unjust occupation of <insert city here> (she promptly then gets arrested. STRIKE TWO!). Michael Moore will try to film a documentry. System of a Down and Green Day will hold a concert in support of the oppressed citizens of <insert city here>. Some stupid self-proclaimed anarchist/communist/marxist/whatever will get himself killed by trying to fight the military (actually, considering the intelligence level of some people, quite the number of idiots will get themselves killed). There would be mass criticism of the fact that the military are (OMG!) trained to kill people. Eventually, the military finishes its exercise. Two weeks later the American public forgets about it.

sp2c
12-27-2005, 06:36 PM
we've been doing that for as long as I can remember (Rhino preparation for deployment to the Balkans), but never a 'big' city like winnepeg though. I think it's good training villages are nice and well but you won't get to deal with a real life civilian population (yeah you have actors but they don't live there ... it's not the same)

would be great if they did this in cities like Amsterdam or Rotterdam (especially area's where the police doesn't really want to go) and give them some kind of mandate to do something about the situation ... but that won't go well with the lefties ;)

joshfox0
12-27-2005, 06:38 PM
:S i thought the USMC did do it in one city. anyhoo very cool i'd love to see somthign like that in UK but mostly because i'd love to go watch lol.

Resurrection
12-27-2005, 07:01 PM
And here I was thinking that Sweden was the only country that conducted live urban exercises in cities. :oops:

AOCBravo2004
12-27-2005, 08:22 PM
:S i thought the USMC did do it in one city. anyhoo very cool i'd love to see somthign like that in UK but mostly because i'd love to go watch lol.

The Marine Corps did do this in San Francisco in the late 90's (between 97-99), the conspiracy theorists were up in arms talking about a police state when the year 2000 rolled around. The Marine Corps tested a urban camo pattern during this exercise, it was one large light grey camo, with darker grey rectangles on it, larger, not pixelated like MarPat. Last year the Marines also did an urban exercise in Georgia.

joshfox0
12-27-2005, 08:25 PM
The Marine Corps did do this in San Francisco in the late 90's (between 97-99), the conspiracy theorists were up in arms talking about a police state when the year 2000 rolled around. The Marine Corps tested a urban camo pattern during this exercise, it was one large light grey camo, with darker grey rectangles on it, larger, not pixelated like MarPat. Last year the Marines also did an urban exercise in Georgia.
:) thanks mate i remember seeing hte pictures on here and always pondered about the camo.

AOCBravo2004
12-27-2005, 08:57 PM
:) thanks mate i remember seeing hte pictures on here and always pondered about the camo.

The Discovery Channel produced a documentary about this exercise, they showed a lot of new technology the DoD was testing, handheld electronic voice translators, a precursor to BlueFor, and other new gadgets. You might want to check Discovery's website to see if they have a VHS or DVD copy of this program, wish I could remember the name of it, or who knows, it may play on the Military Channel.

East Scout
12-27-2005, 09:38 PM
that's interesting, but i gotta wonder...

can you imagine what kind of a ****storm would go up if the US Army did this here?


US already does it...

East Scout
12-27-2005, 09:40 PM
that's interesting, but i gotta wonder...

can you imagine what kind of a ****storm would go up if the US Army did this here?


US already does it...No as large a scale though..Few soldiers got killed outside Ft Bragg..Local Law Dog wasnt told there was a SERE group operating in town and he thought it was a bunch of Militia guys gone nuts with gun in a pickup truck..He pulled his weapon..They thought it was part of the scenario, pulled thier weapons and the policeman shot them..all they had was blanks.....

Hellfish
12-28-2005, 12:02 AM
The US Marines, possibly with help from the Army, are constructing a 1,500 building MOUT city at 29 Palms. Some of it is already in place. They don't really need to do it in an actual city anymore. Plus, the US Army has always been pretty hesitant to do anything like this in public - more due to public safety concerns than anything else I think.

joshfox0
12-28-2005, 06:24 AM
The US Marines, possibly with help from the Army, are constructing a 1,500 building MOUT city at 29 Palms. Some of it is already in place. They don't really need to do it in an actual city anymore. Plus, the US Army has always been pretty hesitant to do anything like this in public - more due to public safety concerns than anything else I think.

fraggin hell! thats alota building! love to see that when its done!

Hellfish
12-28-2005, 08:27 AM
I have a brochure about the project, but I can't find any web references to it. I know where on base it is, who the primary contractor is and all kinds of other info, but nothing is on the web.

Except this PowerPoint presentation. Check out page 18.

Click here (http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/tcom/Conference/fy05/ConferenceBriefs/Marine%20Corps%20Training%20and%20Education%20Transformation.ppt=)