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Robert Plant
02-16-2004, 08:07 PM
From Todays New York Post Online edition


THE RIDDLE OF RUSSIA

By RALPH PETERS

February 16, 2004 -- THE Russian soldier's greatest virtue has always been stubbornness. Time and again, Russia's military was defeated, fair and square - by Charles XII's Swedes, Napoleon's polyglot legions and Hitler's armored barbarians. But the Russians wouldn't surrender.
They always refused to play by Europe's rules, absorbing defeat after defeat - until they won on their own confounding terms.

Today, the Russians are being stubborn again, frustrating Europe's expectations and our own fond wishes. The new czar in the Kremlin is determined to have his country forge its own way. Our well-intentioned concerns don't move him a millimeter as he redesigns the one-party state for the 21st century.

Adding to our frustration, the people of Russia support him overwhelmingly.
They're being stubborn again.

Vladimir Putin's Russia presents those of us who revere democracy with a series of dilemmas. It's the worrisome member of the family of "Western" nations, charming one day, crazy the next - and ****e to nasty behavior. It's richer in contradictions than it is in oil and gas.
Next month, Russia will hold national elections. Putin will win. Easily. Even the most grugding polls grant him a popularity rating above 70 percent. Yet, the Kremlin has gone to extravagant lengths to stifle an opposition so feeble it barely registers, smirking as it calls Russia a democracy. Attractive opposition candidates are eliminated - one way or the other. The media has been bullied, bribed and suborned. The people cling, once again, to the notion of a "good czar" who will save them from themselves and the powers of darkness.

Nonetheless, the March elections will mark real progress toward political, economic and social stability. They just won't be elections as we prefer them. Instead, the coming vote will be a referendum on Vladimir Putin. On one hand, the balloting will resemble the old Soviet yes-or-no "elections," since there's no serious choice. On the other, the elections will honestly reflect the feelings of Russia's majority.
At a glance, Russia appears to be in a transition. That may be so, but we just might find ourselves surprised by where the journey takes that vast country. Russia appears to be working out a middle way that suits its conditions and character - not our preferences.
Russia will remain Russia, declining to emulate either the USA or Germany, content to forge a workable combination of Mexico 30 years ago, Mussolini's 1920s Italy and Russia circa 1912. With a teasing hint of globalization for international investors.

Vladimir Putin is an unattractive figure on numerous counts. Yet, in other respects, he's probably the best that either Russia or the West can expect. It's certainly true that he can't seem to escape his KGB background - but it's doubtful that any leader in the Kremlin could do more to overcome the burden of Russia's past.
Russia has long been a land of contradictions layered upon contradictions, whether its schizophrenia had to do with arguments between Westernizers and Slavophiles, or democrats versus nationalists, or the prevalent crudeness and stunning brilliance of which its people are capable.

The contradictions continue. During the last decade's Boris-and-Bill Show, when President Clinton left Russia policy to the most amateurish collection of pseudo-diplomats ever to infect the Department of State, corruption flourished in Russia on a scale beyond a Saudi prince's dreams.

Putin has cracked down hard on corruption. Russia has become a more reliable, physically safer place to do business. The economy is making enviable progress.

Yet, the Kremlin crackdowns on the post-Soviet billionaires and other "criminals" concentrate on those who back opposition political parties or fund a free press. Oligarchs who support the Kremlin remain unscathed by law.

All this is very Russian. It's Peter the Great breaking the will of the boyari, the aristocratic oligarchs of his day. As the emotions of the Cold War settle, the Soviet Union appears to have been less of a break with the long sweep of Russian history than an intensification of it. And post-Soviet Russia is not about to jettison its political DNA. We're looking at remodeling, not reconstruction.

Despite its natural-resource wealth, Russian power has obviously diminished. We might be able to disengage, sign a few oil deals and let things stumble along - were it not for one unavoidable issue: Russia is a vital ally in the War on Terror.

And Russia has done far more than its share to make terrorism worse.
Political theories never survive hard contact with reality. Nor do our noblest ideals often fare better. Human rights should be a fundamental component of our foreign policy. So how do we justify cooperating with Russia, given its horrendous abuses in Chechnya and elsewhere in the Caucasus, its slaughter of its own citizens, the incompetence and lies - all of which have converted countless Muslims to terror?
Morally, we can't justify it. Yet, we cooperate. Because we must. In the real world, that's just how things work sometimes. You go with the less-bad alternative and grit your teeth.

We all may wish it were otherwise. But it's not.
A decade ago, we heard exuberant predictions of a new age of Russian glory waiting just around the corner. Next, we heard predictions of Russian doom, based upon demographics, economics, corruption and the dwindling number of birch trees.

The truth lies in between. Russia is moving forward, but at its own pace and in its own way. An angel won't replace Putin in the Kremlin. But Putin isn't entirely a devil. The glass is dirty, but it's nearly three-quarters full.
What do we make of a country that drinks itself to death, yet idolizes a national leader who refuses to raise a shot-glass to his lips? A country whose artistic achievements rival those of any culture on earth, but which has a phenomenal tolerance for human misery? A country whose stunningly rich elite reprises the excesses abroad of its 19th-century aristocracy, but whose common people, the chorni narod, have a shrinking life expectancy?

We make it our ally, do what we can to influence it and swallow hard.

Ralph Peters served as an Army officer specializing in Russia and its borderlands.

hood
02-16-2004, 09:11 PM
This article mentions more of what I was getting at in my post last week. No matter how popular Putin is, without serious political competition, there's nothing keeping him in balance. I don't for a second believe that there isn't a single politician in that huge country called Russia who can do as good a job as him. It's total BS.

Russian Texan
02-16-2004, 09:35 PM
This article mentions more of what I was getting at in my post last week. No matter how popular Putin is, without serious political competition, there's nothing keeping him in balance. I don't for a second believe that there isn't a single politician in that huge country called Russia who can do as good a job as him. It's total BS.

Name one.

hood
02-16-2004, 09:52 PM
That's like saying that George W Bush is the best possible presiden of the United States, and there's not a single person in 250 million people that can do his job as good as him. By the laws of statistics that's literally not possible. Is Putin some amazing super genious that only he knows how to run a country? Out of all of the brilliant minds in Russia, only Putin has this ability? I just don't buy it.

serbian boy
02-16-2004, 10:04 PM
Putin is probably the best president the new Russian Federation will ever have he started bringing the economy back up, his building up a military again, he has forged good relations with the west while at the same time showing that Russia still retains some power in world affairs. I know Putin will win, he doesn't need to eliminate the competition, it's obvious to any sane person he's the one that will bring Russia back to its feet. What a B.S. article, please! rofl rofl

Russian Texan
02-16-2004, 10:09 PM
Putin is not Bush ;)

Statistically speaking you are absolutely right but in real life there is no one that comes anywhere even close to him in popularity. I am sure that there are people with the higher IQ but they might lack the character or charisma. Putin combines all three...
There could be a person who might do a better job but no one has heard of him or her and therefore that person won't get elected :)

People like him, they don't want anyone else and they also don't care if it is not very"democratic" to have only one viable candidate... :)

hood
02-16-2004, 10:12 PM
Well I think that gets right to the point. The people don't care about democracy. So why bother having an election at all if it's just a joke? Put a crown on his head already and call him King.

Russian Texan
02-16-2004, 10:13 PM
I know Putin will win, he doesn't need to eliminate the competition, it's obvious to any sane person he's the one that will bring Russia back to its feet. What a B.S. article, please! rofl rofl

Russia is on its feet, it just swaying sideways :)
Actually I'd say this article is pretty good and accurate.
Russian people want a "CZAR" and Putin fits the profile.

Russian Texan
02-16-2004, 10:15 PM
Well I think that gets right to the point. The people don't care about democracy. So why bother having an election at all if it's just a joke? Put a crown on his head already and call him King.

Because it is 21st century and russians despise royalty in general.

hood
02-16-2004, 10:38 PM
So they hate the name, so they give it another one?

Russian Texan
02-16-2004, 10:43 PM
They already did - President :)

Dmitri
02-16-2004, 10:58 PM
Yeah, there a lot of brilliant people, but I think most of them are crooks. It's not that people don't want democracy or the election is just a joke, it just happens that now Putin is just on the top of the game. I remember how several years ago we had elections btw. Yetsin and the communist leader Zuganov, and it was pretty damn close. I think only old grandma's and grandpa's voted for communist, everyone else was scared they would come to power. I guess communists lost all that power now, and there aren't too many democratic candidates participating, although they definately should.

George W. Bush
02-16-2004, 11:12 PM
The real question is, who has a higher IQ, Bush or Putin?

Russian Texan
02-16-2004, 11:20 PM
The real question is, who has a higher IQ, Bush or Putin?

No, the real question is - who has a lower IQ, wanchung or Bush :lol:

Dmitri
02-16-2004, 11:24 PM
Well, most Americans themselves say that Bush is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, and just like in CIA, you have to be bright to be KGB's director.

16 OBr SpN
02-17-2004, 08:50 AM
This article mentions more of what I was getting at in my post last week. No matter how popular Putin is, without serious political competition, there's nothing keeping him in balance. I don't for a second believe that there isn't a single politician in that huge country called Russia who can do as good a job as him. It's total BS.

You see, I don't personally think that there is no alternative for Putin. There are alternatives for everyone.

But...

If you think about it through the prism of Yeltsin's time, you will understand why there are no worthy alternatives for him. Those who claim to be "liberals" and "democrats" have long compromised their position in the eyes of the society. Yeltsin's rule was always accompanied by the word "democracy".
But what did people get instead: drunk and incompetent president; war in Chechnya; "treaties" and "deals" with terrorists; organized crime; corruption; olygarchs; devastating economic crisis. Gorbachev destroyed the country, while Yeltsin further humiliated Russia.

I can say that we haven't even seen the democracy by Western standards. And I think we never will. The term "democracy" has been compromised right at its birth.
It came to the case when "liberals" are now called "liberast" (liberal + pederast), and "democrats" are called "der'mocrat" (crap + democrat). People are tired of all those Yeltsin times, they want stability, and order.

Putin's future alternative, will be coming from the military elite or intelligence community.

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

hank
02-17-2004, 09:04 AM
Democracy only works in the right situations. The people have to want it and have to be willing to suffer to have it. Maybe now is not the time in Russia. When the people want it bad enough though, they get it one way or another. Change is always slow. Putin in the short term may, in the opinion of Russians, be better than representative democracy in the long term. Only Russians can decide.

Certainly easy to understand why you wold be skeptical of "democracy" when Yeltsin was the model. ;)

hank

duck
02-17-2004, 09:04 AM
No offense intended, but wouldn't present-day Russia qualify as a semi-fascist state? I'm thinking more of the Pinochet variety than the Mussolini one. I think many factors point to fascism.

16 OBr SpN
02-17-2004, 09:15 AM
No offense intended, but wouldn't present-day Russia qualify as a semi-fascist state? I'm thinking more of the Pinochet variety than the Mussolini one. I think many factors point to fascism.

Can you elaborate?
What makes you come to this conclusion?

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

Kenshin
02-17-2004, 09:19 AM
Well, most Americans themselves say that Bush is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, and just like in CIA, you have to be bright to be KGB's director.

No not bright.. SMART fits better

hank
02-17-2004, 09:23 AM
Fascism seems like a strong word for Putin. Whatever the actual definition of fascism you choose to buy into, the term has a lot of connotations with Nazism and hate. Deserved or not, its a package deal. Doubt any Russian who remembers or knows what the NAZI part did, and the Nazis were fascists to be sure, to Russia would like that tag applied. Limited dictatorship or some kind of reverse aristocracy based on achievement in the communist party, maybe. Fascist as a description for the Government of 16 OBr SpN and other Russians will be a "hard" sell.

16 OBr - assuming democracy is not working - what term do you think best describes what Russia has now or the system that the elections produce? Curious.

hank

Kingpin
02-18-2004, 05:00 AM
This article mentions more of what I was getting at in my post last week. No matter how popular Putin is, without serious political competition, there's nothing keeping him in balance. I don't for a second believe that there isn't a single politician in that huge country called Russia who can do as good a job as him. It's total BS.

Relax man, i will vote against him. :)
But this is true - there isn't any as good as him among those who challenged him in elections. Among the rest - yes, highly possible.