IDF: Hizbullah uses Russian rockets

[alvarito]

Intelligence chief slams Russia, says weapons sold to Syria end up in terrorists' hands
Smadar Peri

Oh, those Russians: Hizbullah has been using Russian-made RPG rockets purchased by Syria to target Israel, outgoing IDF Intelligence Chief Aharon Zeevi-Farkash charged in a special interview with Israel's leading newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth.
In his farewell interview, Farkash chose to blast the Russians for their contribution to the war waged by Hizbullah terrorists against Israel.
"The Russians' and Syrians' true face has been exposed, (they) buy and sell weapons with a commitment not to pass it on, yet those weapons are used against us in a blatant manner," he said.
Farkash noted that Hizbullah terrorists involved in the attempt to abduct soldiers on the Lebanese border about a month ago fired RPG-29 rockets. "Those are Russian-made rockets purchased by the Syrians in recent years and handed over to Hizbullah," he said.
"We are talking about a high-impact weapon because it has deep penetration capabilities," Farkash said. "The usage of rockets against us explains why Israel strongly opposed the sale of SA-18 missiles to Syria."
Turning his attention to the rockets fired on the northern town of Kiryat Shmona two days ago, Farkash said they too were Russian-made but came from older shipments.

"We know that in April 2005, ahead of the departure of Syrian forces from Lebanon, (President) Bashar Assad made sure to transfer military equipment and combat means to Palestinian groups and to Hizbullah," Farkash charged.
"And there it is…weapons Syria purchased from Russia are being handed over to elements that are acting against us," he said.
Eitan Glickman and Yossi Yehoshua contributed to the report
(12.29.05, 08:42)

[Greek soldier]

Not something new... All of the A/T and RPGs missiles are Russian-made. Syria has lately acquired the Kornet-E and the Israelis fear that some may end up in Palestine...

[signatory]

That's rather silly of him. Blame Syria if he have any proof to back that up.
Take it to the security counsil and charge syria for assisting terrorism.
Or blame himself for when terrorists steal rifles off IDF soldiers.

right, nothing new to see here.

ps. welcome back greek soldier

[Lokos]

Mmhm. Imagine if US-supplied Saudi weapons somehow ended up in terrorist hands. Would the US be catching flak over it?

The Russians are a traditional supplier of armaments to Syria. What Syria does with those weapons is not within Russia's jurisdiction.

Lokos

[S'13]

Take it to the security counsil and charge syria for assisting terrorism.


Are you serious?! I didn't take you for the naive type... ;-)

[alexz]

Mmhm. Imagine if US-supplied Saudi weapons somehow ended up in terrorist hands. Would the US be catching flak over it?

The Russians are a traditional supplier of armaments to Syria. What Syria does with those weapons is not within Russia's jurisdiction.

Lokos

Of course they are responsible for were their weapons end up. Otherwise the sell of Falcon to China would have been O.K. with the US. Every weapon has a serial number. Russia can easily find out it the Hizzbulah weapons came from Syrian batch by matching the numbers. You think if Syria would transfer the weapons to the Chechens, the Russians would
just say "oops, it's out of our jurisdiction".

[Lokos]

If Israeli weapons ended up in Chechen hands because, hypothetically, the Georgians who originally received them resold them, then I suspect Russia would go after the Georgians, not the Israelis.


You think if Syria would transfer the weapons to the Chechens, the Russians
would just say "oops, it's out of our jurisdiction".

No, they'd come down on the SYRIANS like a ton of bricks. Not, however, on the original supplier of the weapons.

What is the aim of this article and your stance, in any case? Should Russia stop selling weapons to Syria altogether on the off chance that this might hurt militants' ability to acquire advanced weapon systems?

Russia bears no responsibility in looking after Israel's interests directly and/or indirectly. If you've got complaints, go to those who ARE actively seeking to harm your interests (i.e. Syria) not those who don't really care either way.

Lokos

[signatory]

Are you serious?! I didn't take you for the naive type... ;-)

The israeli guy is the naive one.

I'm the sarcastic sob.

[alexz]

What is the aim of this article and your stance, in any case? Should Russia stop selling weapons to Syria altogether on the off chance that this might hurt militants' ability to acquire advanced weapon systems?

Russia bears no responsibility in looking after Israel's interests directly and/or indirectly. If you've got complaints, go to those who ARE actively seeking to harm your interests (i.e. Syria) not those who don't really care either way.

Lokos

Why are you trying to make a complex issue of something easy to enforce?
If Israel sells weapons to Georgia or the US to Israel, then they include a NO TRANSFER agreement in the contract. Any breach of contract leads to penalties. Really it's not that difficult. Even in some software that i wrote i state that you can't reasale my product.

I think Russia cares were it's weapons end up. The US warned themregarding the Kornets in Iraq and it could lead to econmic sanctions.
http://web.naplesnews.com/03/04/naples/d921412a.htm
Israel of course can't threat them in that way, but has it's ways of getting even.

[Laworkerbee]

The israeli guy is the naive one.

I'm the sarcastic sob.

hehe you sob

[One?]

Then russia must be the evil power behind every organization. Seriosly Israel should have something else to do besides guessing what kind of rockets hezbollah has or who imports them.

[NimDod]

Then russia must be the evil power behind every organization. Seriosly Israel should have something else to do besides guessing what kind of rockets hezbollah has or who imports them.

who's guessing? some of the terroist's weapons were left on the ground when they fleed or died.

"Farkash noted that Hizbullah terrorists involved in the attempt to abduct soldiers on the Lebanese border about a month ago fired RPG-29 rockets. "Those are Russian-made rockets purchased by the Syrians in recent years and handed over to Hizbullah," he said.

"We are talking about a high-impact weapon because it has deep penetration capabilities," Farkash said. "The usage of rockets against us explains why Israel strongly opposed the sale of SA-18 missiles to Syria." "

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3191909,00.html

[Lokos]

The US warned themregarding the Kornets in Iraq and it could lead to econmic sanctions.

1) No it didn't.

2) No it can't.


Israel of course can't threat them in that way, but has it's ways of getting even.

Fortunately Israel's senior leadership has more brains than this misguided individual.

And, AFAIK, the Russians have no way of enforcing any 'NO TRANSFER' contract clause with the Syrians - which I don't think exists in any case. Prove me wrong.

The bottom line is simple: the weapons might be Russian, but the policy that delivered them into the hands of militants is not. Since policy determines the deployment of these instruments, blame the policy makers, not the Russians - who are just trying to make money by selling arms to a traditional customer. Israel would be better served by strengthening security on the Syrian border and coming to terms with the Syrians than by uselessly threatening the Russians.

You and I both know that if the Russians were truly seeking to damage Israeli interests, more than RPG-29's would be in militant hands...

Lokos

[NimDod]

1) No it didn't.

2) No it can't.



Fortunately Israel's senior leadership has more brains than this misguided individual.

And, AFAIK, the Russians have no way of enforcing any 'NO TRANSFER' contract clause with the Syrians - which I don't think exists in any case. Prove me wrong.

The bottom line is simple: the weapons might be Russian, but the policy that delivered them into the hands of militants is not. Since policy determines the deployment of these instruments, blame the policy makers, not the Russians - who are just trying to make money by selling arms to a traditional customer. Israel would be better served by strengthening security on the Syrian border and coming to terms with the Syrians than by uselessly threatening the Russians.

You and I both know that if the Russians were truly seeking to damage Israeli interests, more than RPG-29's would be in militant hands...

Lokos

U.S. State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said Washington would be unhappy if any such deal was agreed. "We've seen reports of the sale. The U.S. policy on this is very clear," boucher said. "We're against the sale of weaponry to Syria, against the sale of lethal military equipment to Syria, which is a state sponsor of terrorism. And we think those kinds of sales are not appropriate. The Russians know about this policy. They know about our views."
http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/01/283c0081-3538-4883-989d-54bceb638b53.html

if Kornet-E missiles got to Hizbullah, how long do you think its gonna take befor it gets to the Mujahadin in Iraq?

when you know that the brand new weapons that you are selling will get to terrorist organization, (which happends with most equipment that is sold to Syria and Iran), you cant just say "hey, were just trying to make money by selling arms to a traditional customer".

[Lokos]

The U.S. policy on this is very clear," boucher said. "We're against the sale of weaponry to Syria, against the sale of lethal military equipment to Syria, which is a state sponsor of terrorism. And we think those kinds of sales are not appropriate. The Russians know about this policy. They know about our views."

That's about as indirect a 'threat' as it gets. What Boucher means, of course, is that the US will throw a hissy fit if the Russians keep supplying the Syrians with hardware. In the cost/benefit assessment of the situation, generating belligerence over a few AT/AA systems isn't good policy making. Since the US government is largely inspired by the realist political tradition (with its basis in Enlightenment rationalism), cost/benefit is the overriding concern.


when you know that the brand new weapons that you are selling will get to terrorist organization, (which happends with most equipment that is sold to Syria and Iran), you cant just say "hey, were just trying to make money by selling arms to a traditional customer".

The thing is they DON'T know where the weapons will get to. The Syrian military is NOT Hizbollah's middleman. The vast majority of arms sold to it stay with it. Syria, too, has carefully monitored what weapons it provides the militants with. They are well aware of potential consequences, were their supplies clearly and decisively traced back to them.

Russia should not and will not be cowed into halting multi-million dollar deals with a traditional buyer over US and Israeli fears of a few weapons systems. And if you think the US is willing to do anything but impotently voice displeasure over this, you're dreaming.


if Kornet-E missiles got to Hizbullah, how long do you think its gonna take befor it gets to the Mujahadin in Iraq?

The relevance of this being?


(which happends with most equipment that is sold to Syria and Iran)

You really don't know what the hell you're talking about, do you?

Lokos

[NimDod]

The Syrian military is NOT Hizbollah's middleman. The vast majority of arms sold to it stay with it.

but alot of Syria's weapons get to Hizbollah... those expensive Kornet-E's didnt get there by accident.



You really don't know what the hell you're talking about, do you?


well, what I do know is that Russian made missiles are being fired by a terror orginaztion at Israeli tanks, APC's and towns, inside Israeli teritory.

when someone shoots at you, you tend to get angry at the man who sold him that brand new gun.

I think Russia should be more choosy to who its selling its weapons.

good night.

[Lokos]

but alot of Syria's weapons get to Hizbollah... those expensive Kornet-E's didnt get there by accident.

Let me just make something very, very clear: ONE (even a dozen) instance(s) of a Kornet-E being fired at a US/Israeli vehicle, in the larger scheme of things, means diddly. The number of these systems bought by the Syrians is enormous. We're talking about less than one percent ending up in militant hands.


well, what I do know is that Russian made missiles are being fired by a terror orginaztion at Israeli tanks, APC's and towns, inside Israeli teritory.

If they weren't Russian, they'd be Chinese. Or any of a vast number of former Eastern Bloc/Arab producers of such missiles/rockets. Would that make you happier? The problem is Syria, not the legitimate supplier of weapons. Remember; it's not guns that kill people, it's people that kill people.


I think Russia should be more choosy to who its selling its weapons.

Buy some Russian weapons and they may actually be willing to listen to what you're saying...


good night.

You too. Although, it's the middle of the day here.

Lokos

[One?]

Everyone knows hezbollah gets weapons from syria and iran whats the big deal? Iran can send a plane loaded with rockets and it will land in beirut and no one will say anything. Hell some of the weapons belong to the IDF and they use it.

[Rifleman]

“In terms of its significance and scope, the global weapons market is comparable with such segments of the global economy as energy and food. Competition here is extremely strong,” -Putin

"Intense competition on the global weapons market requires Russia to permanently adjust its policy in military-technical cooperation with other countries"-Putin

You may not like Russian sales but you have to admit it makes good business sense. And frankly it amazes that people do not see the writing on the wall...Arms, energy and food... Many countries tried to fill the void left by the USSR, they forgot Russia might have a little to say about that.

Anyway, if a British businessman sells Russian arms to a terrorist group member in Iowa who should be held responsible when he shoots a plane down at JFK?

It is a supply and demand thing, if there is a buyer there will always be a seller, but Lokos had a good point, buying power. Buy Russian weapons on the condition that none are sold to Syria. One problem, now there is an unmet demand, someone will step forward with supply.

[Rictor]

The truth is that the Russians don't care if Israelis are being killed, the same way the United States doesn't care if Palestinians are being killed when it sells weapons to Israel. It's a freaking arms trade; it's a pretty safe bet that when you're selling weapons, you're not in it for the humanitarian reasons. Syria wants to buy, and Russia wants to sell. So long as those weapons don't end up killing Russians are Russian allies, the Russian government doesn't care one way or another.

It's stupid to assume that everyone should automatically side with Israel, or that everyone has to take sides at all. If the Israeli government wanted to buy Russian tanks, I'm sure the Russians would be happy to oblige. Beyond that, they don't care who's killing who, so long as they pay up. Israel and Hamas/Fatah/Hezbollah/Whatever are just two factions, and when your business is to sell weapons, you sell to whoever wants to buy, not based on ideological principles.

[One?]

Chechens use russian weapons, palestinians use IDF weapons whats the big deal? You think arms dealers give a **** who the weapons are going to?