Are YOU Patriotic?

[HooyahCQB]

My friend wrote this in an email he sent out to a bunch of us today. It's weird because he's never done this before, and even weirder that he didn't talk to me about it.


Ok, so I was listening to the radio this evening and "American Soldier" came on the radio, which is an awesome song, and of course it got me thinking....

We all know about that tragic day on 7 December 1941 and many Americans agree that day was the beginning of "American Patriotism." Whether you learned about that day in US History or from a relative who was alive during that time, a sense of pride and maybe anger washes over you as you listen to those events unfold on that December morning. You are probably asking yourself "why is he talking about this, has he gone mad." And my answer is "mad-no, but frustrated-you bet."

Americans take their freedom for granted WAY to easily. And yes at times, I am one of those people, but now I have a new outlook on this topic. Every single US citizen one time or another has bitched and whined about gas prices going up and/or Pres. Bush’s involvement in the war. Well you know what I have to say about that....SHUT YOUR MOUTHS! Most Americans have no idea what its like to be in war, unless you have had relatives or friends fight, you are completely at a loss. It’s not your body that the Iraqi’s are shooting at. It’s not your eyes and ears that see the blood shed and the screams of the innocent Iraqi women and children. Brave men and women risk their lives day in and day out so all of us back here in the States can live a normal and peaceful life. While you are driving to work or school, those brave soldiers who aren’t much older than many of us, are out there on the front lines taking bullets for American people that they DON’T EVEN KNOW! Im not sure about you, but im glad as hell to have those men and women on my side. And if I had the chance to trade places with them....I WOULD. Some of those people have not seen their families in over 3 years. Can you imagine how long that must be, of course you cant because you are blessed with the freedom that they are fighting for. And what really pisses me off are those snobby teenagers who gripe and complain when mommy and daddy doesn’t give them their weekly allowance OR those selfish "im too good for this" type of people who don’t stand up and say the Pledge with pride. That’s what REALLY makes me mad!!! And of course I cant forget those people who are always like "oh I hate my family, my life sucks, blah blah blah...." Well you know what....try living in a army barrack for 5 years and the only family you got are the soldiers beside you. Im sure that would change your attitude about life. If one of your comrades fall, then what are you gonna do?? You definitely cant complain about that now, can you? You gotta keep moving or you will be the next one to fall. One Soldier, One Army, One Family...that’s what its all about. "Leave NO man behind"....that’s the quote from the US Rangers. And when they say leave NO man, they mean NO man, it doesn’t matter if he has no arms, no legs, no eyes, or even if he’s dead.....they leave NOBODY behind.

So to all of you brave men and women out there on the front lines....I salute you! You’ve got my patriotism 110% and I say the Pledge with pride because I know that freedom doesn’t come easily. May God bless you and watch over you until you return home!

Whether you agree, disagree or honestly don’t care what I have written, well that is your own opinion. But I ask you this one and only question....How Patriotic Are You??????


Watcha think? I've never known this guy to say anything like this. He seemed like he didn't care much for current events, politics, or what people say or did. Guess I was wrong.

[Operation Ivy]

Im a big Pat :D

[cut]

I'm patriotic, not for the US though :)

[Jack Mehoff]

http://www.nastyburger.com/wc3.jpg

[memphiz]

jack was that computer designed in japan??,or the parts built in taiwan

http://www.nastyburger.com/wc3.jpg
im one hell of a patriotic Canadian

[memphiz]

CANADA EH!!!!




edit- BOOYAH second star

[fred_engles]

Umm...so the point of this guy's argument is that:
1) Soldier's are risking their lives and dying abroad. Also, they have hard lives.
2) Therefore, we should never complain about anything - or have any political opinions about anything.

That's a friggin' terrible argument. I mean - there's always someone worse off than me, or braver than me, or a more patient soul than I. That doesn't mean that all of my concerns are illegitimate.

If I'm in a cafe - and my coffee is served cold, and I complain, the appropriate response is not: children in africa are dying of thirst, you should be grateful to have anything to drink at all. Nor is it: people are dying to keep you free, so STFU. The correct response is: I'm sorry sir, would you like me to make you another cup?

Practically everything I do might seem petty compared to getting shot on a battlefield or performing surgery on sick orphan children. That doesn't mean that I can't live my life, or get angry at politicians, or whatever.

[NcDeuce]

Umm...so the point of this guy's argument is that:
1) Soldier's are risking their lives and dying abroad. Also, they have hard lives.
2) Therefore, we should never complain about anything - or have any political opinions about anything.

That's a friggin' terrible argument. I mean - there's always someone worse off than me, or braver than me, or a more patient soul than I. That doesn't mean that none of my concerns are illegitimate.

If I'm in a cafe - and my coffee is served cold, and I complain, the appropriate response is not: children in africa are dying of thirst, you should be grateful to have anything to drink at all. Nor is it: people are dying to keep you free, so STFU. The correct response is: I'm sorry sir, would you like me to make you another cup?

Practically everything I do might seem petty compared to getting shot on a battlefield or performing surgery on sick orphan children. That doesn't mean that I can't live my life, or get angry at politicians, or whatever.

Get decaf next time.

[George W. Bush]

I support the war in Iraq and the coalition fighting there. I'm voting for Bush because there is no other candidate to vote for.

[NcDeuce]

I support the war in Iraq and the coalition fighting there. I'm voting for Bush because there is no other candidate to vote for.

I agree.

I do not see the other candidates ready to fill the position. My beliefs are conservative but I vote for whoever will get the job done...right now, that man is Dubya.

[el borracho]

Look...can you honestly say that the troops in Iraq are fighting for our freedom? IMHO the last time that happened was WWII.

Just because people are taking advantage of their right (provided by brave soldiers) to voice dissent and criticize their own government does that make them unpatriotic. Where is the crime in questioning the motives of our leaders? I dread the possibility that I may live in a country where I refrain from expressing my honest beliefs because I fear reprecussions from my fellow citizens, or worse, from my government.

America wasn't built on blind faith and allegiance to the cause, in fact quite the oppsosite...if the colonists never raised the proverbial middle finger to King George then we might not have a country today.

BTW, I salute all the soldiers who have served (and are currently serving) this country, however noble the cause.

[George W. Bush]

Don't believe the bull**** about the military "fighting for my freedom."

No one but God (or whoever) gave me freedom and no one can take it away.

[DE_Six]

I agree with Fred that this kind of argument can be hazardous. If suddenly no one can express an opinion other than all-out support to the mainstream opinion (btw, I'm not talking about the USA, even though some depicts it as monolithic, it is far from it in my experience), then what is fighting for freedom worth? If one thing, exercising what we defend so dearly is actually supporting it.

About the last sentence of the article:

I think you can be proud of your nation and its achievements without being deaf to dissenting views. I don't think Americans are nationalistic and dogmatic, so I'm a bit wary of potentially hazardous arguments like that. There is no monopoly on the definition of patriotism, and that is freedom. So if the author means that not supporting the troops is anti-patriotic, well he just monopolized patriotism, and that is not freedom.
I think BAC neo-cons and atheist liberals can be patriotic just as well, albeit in different ways.

And it is all rethoric anyway. I support the war in Iraq 100%, but I don't believe it was about the Americans' freedom. That of the Iraqi people, more likely, but even then. I think it's just politics. Been going on for centuries, will go on 'til the end of times. I think America's freedom is safe because it is strong, and I don't think it's right to censor it with fallacious arguments.

Be proud, be patrotic, but don't verse in blind, unilateral nationalism. My take on patriotism ( worth my .03$...yeah my stocks are up! p-) )

[Haiw]

Somewhat patriotic towards my country and our way of life, but less to the government. Patriotism is love for your country, and the government is just who's steering it.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

I love the people of this country....the government is another story. Does it make me a patriot? I dont know and couldnt answer myself, I am proud of who I am and my roots in this country.

I guess its all up to ones own meaning of the word "Patriot"

[mocking_loudly_died]

I have a stronger affinity to England than to Australia.

Kind of strange.

[scoone]

Being patriotic in Spain is quite difficult on these days.

[Tengu]

I see myself as a patriot of the western civilization.

[Haiw]

I have a stronger affinity to England than to Australia.

Kind of strange.
I thought you had more affinity to asians... ;)

[Kriz]

I see myself as a patriot of the western civilization.

Same here, our western ideas we all share. Which are no longer bound to one specific nation.

[hank]

I'm patriotic and I support Bush, the troops, and the war on terror. Hell, I voted for Bush in the silly Republican primary last Tuesday.

I have a RIGHT to dissent whenever I feel that dissent warranted. That does not make me unpatriotic. The ability to voice dissent is one of the freedoms and abilities that Jefferson and the boys loved so much that they revolted and wrote the constitution. Every American citizen has a right to dissent whenever and wherever necessary.

It seems to me that you pay the greatest homage to the fathers that you can when you dissent and vote. That being said, most of the dissent that drives everybody crazy around here rises to the level of whining and I, too, despise whining.

I don't remember who said it (Voltaire?) but one of the ideas that Jefferson bought into was, "I don't agree with what you say but I will fight to see that you have the right to say it." Most of hte BS ignorant crap that gets posted around here gets sufficiently questioned that the posters either go away or end up showing their ingorance. That is what is supposed to happen. Instead of whining when somebody posts crap you disagree with, show them why they are wrong. Sixgun pipes down when you ask him the hard questions. Think about it.

hank

[Haiw]

Well I tried showing him wrong, but it's like shouting against a brick wall...

Maybe some of the Jewish members should try, they have more experience with talking to walls ;)

(no offense meant guys :hug: )

[hank]

Isn't that the fun part, though? It is boring if everybody agrees all the time, isn't it?

hank

[Haiw]

I know, but there's a difference between having different opinions and all and plain racist nazi crap. Look, I don't have any problems with disagreeing with people, and I don't go around saying 'Ban all bush-voters!' or anything rediculous like that, but this guy takes it too far.

[hank]

I hear you brother. Hood will do what he thinks is right. Its all good.

hank

[WARPIG]

Don’t get all wound up in why we soldiers do what we do. If you try to fit us into one category.. you will likely be wrong. We are all different. A few of us are idealistic and truly believe that we are fighting for America’s at all times. Others view it as just a job. I think the bulk of us mirror what the bulk of American’s think. We fight for our way of life. Popular or not, good or bad, right or wrong. We fight for each other.
I fight so that you do not have to. I fight because my father did. I fight because the man next to me fights. It sounds a little “Hollywood one liner” but that is pretty much it. Not that all of us are fighting but we know what we swore an oath to do.
For those of you who get it. For those who understand what kind of sacrifice we go through so we can keep this country free… you have an insight to what it takes. It doesn’t matter if a soldier is fighting in a war you support, agree with, or even know about. It doesn’t matter if a soldier is flipping pancakes at Ft. Knox for a bunch of trainees, or putting his ass on the line in the middle of the Sunni triangle. Soldiers are there to preserve and defend our freedom.

Some people get that. Some people understand what it takes to take the oath and serve.
I had just finished a long drill weekend. When most Americans are taking the weekend off and sleeping in, I went to drill Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. I trained recruits to prep for basic training. Gave a 3 hour class on driving tactical vehicles, and had to go before a board for promotion. I decided to celebrate my success that weekend by having dinner with a fellow soldier and our wives on Saturday. We went to a restaurant close to my armory and were still in uniform. As we ate and talked our conversation went on about the possible deployment to Afghanistan, and how our wives would work together and keep busy to keep from worrying about us. As we ate a family that was on the way out had stopped at the table and all 5 of them personally thanked us for serving. One of the boys noticed the wings on my uniform and recognized that I was a paratrooper. He said, “ I wanna be a paratrooper when I get bigger.” I told him, “ I told him, don’t bother… you should be a fireman.” His father and I exchanged smiles and we went on with our dinner. We changed the tone of our conversation as our wives held us a little closer. As the waiter took away our plates, another replaced them with several dishes of desserts. We asked if there was a mistake and the waiter informed us that the family next to us had bought our dinner and dessert. I could feel my throat tighten. As the waiter also thanked us for our service, our wives could not hold back tears. This was not the first time someone had done something like this for me. While working with OP Noble Eagle, I watched a couple fight over who would pay for my lunch. I had tell them that I could not accept the gesture and would take a handshake instead. It was easy in the weeks after 911 to feel appreciated for serving. The Patriotic feeling was high, and my mission was very clearly, to defend the borders of my country. This past weekend’s gesture of thanks, seemed to put things in perspective. Even with all the political controversy, without the sting of 9-11 in the front of people’s minds, and without a clear target of danger, people still seemed to “get it.” This time, the sacrifices we make were in front of our minds, it wasn’t just the danger we face, or the reasons we face them, but the sacrifice at home as well.
Ever wonder why military families are so passionately patriotic? They sacrifice as well. They pay for their freedom as much as the fighting men and women of this country do.

[NcDeuce]

Don’t get all wound up in why we soldiers do what we do. If you try to fit us into one category.. you will likely be wrong. We are all different. A few of us are idealistic and truly believe that we are fighting for America’s at all times. Others view it as just a job. I think the bulk of us mirror what the bulk of American’s think. We fight for our way of life. Popular or not, good or bad, right or wrong. We fight for each other.
I fight so that you do not have to. I fight because my father did. I fight because the man next to me fights. It sounds a little “Hollywood one liner” but that is pretty much it. Not that all of us are fighting but we know what we swore an oath to do.
For those of you who get it. For those who understand what kind of sacrifice we go through so we can keep this country free… you have an insight to what it takes. It doesn’t matter if a soldier is fighting in a war you support, agree with, or even know about. It doesn’t matter if a soldier is flipping pancakes at Ft. Knox for a bunch of trainees, or putting his ass on the line in the middle of the Sunni triangle. Soldiers are there to preserve and defend our freedom.

Some people get that. Some people understand what it takes to take the oath and serve.
I had just finished a long drill weekend. When most Americans are taking the weekend off and sleeping in, I went to drill Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. I trained recruits to prep for basic training. Gave a 3 hour class on driving tactical vehicles, and had to go before a board for promotion. I decided to celebrate my success that weekend by having dinner with a fellow soldier and our wives on Saturday. We went to a restaurant close to my armory and were still in uniform. As we ate and talked our conversation went on about the possible deployment to Afghanistan, and how our wives would work together and keep busy to keep from worrying about us. As we ate a family that was on the way out had stopped at the table and all 5 of them personally thanked us for serving. One of the boys noticed the wings on my uniform and recognized that I was a paratrooper. He said, “ I wanna be a paratrooper when I get bigger.” I told him, “ I told him, don’t bother… you should be a fireman.” His father and I exchanged smiles and we went on with our dinner. We changed the tone of our conversation as our wives held us a little closer. As the waiter took away our plates, another replaced them with several dishes of desserts. We asked if there was a mistake and the waiter informed us that the family next to us had bought our dinner and dessert. I could feel my throat tighten. As the waiter also thanked us for our service, our wives could not hold back tears. This was not the first time someone had done something like this for me. While working with OP Noble Eagle, I watched a couple fight over who would pay for my lunch. I had tell them that I could not accept the gesture and would take a handshake instead. It was easy in the weeks after 911 to feel appreciated for serving. The Patriotic feeling was high, and my mission was very clearly, to defend the borders of my country. This past weekend’s gesture of thanks, seemed to put things in perspective. Even with all the political controversy, without the sting of 9-11 in the front of people’s minds, and without a clear target of danger, people still seemed to “get it.” This time, the sacrifices we make were in front of our minds, it wasn’t just the danger we face, or the reasons we face them, but the sacrifice at home as well.
Ever wonder why military families are so passionately patriotic? They sacrifice as well. They pay for their freedom as much as the fighting men and women of this country do.

http://frontporchswing.homestead.com/files/RaiseFlag.jpg

woot

[hank]

pig, once again you are the man. Great story and I would gladly buy you and yours dinner anytime.

Remember though that one of the freedoms you fight for is the freedom to dissent. I know you do, but there is a reason why that right is the first one in the bill of rights. The fathers thought it was most important and should be abridged only in the darkest of times.

Also, just b/c somone dissents doesn't mean they are not grateful. It seems that way these days b/c in order to have your dissenting opinion heard you have to say it often the worst possible way.

Thanks, pig

hank

[ibstolidude]

Don't believe the bull**** about the military "fighting for my freedom."

No one but God (or whoever) gave me freedom and no one can take it away.
So if someone came to your house and shot you in the head or held you captive you would still have your freedom? Way to go Braveheart.

[WARPIG]

good point hank... and as patriotic as I am.. I have made that point to the painful shock of a dissenter before.

Sorry to monopolize this thread with my stories. But it seems to be the most suitable way to show were my patriotic point of view comes from.

During OP Noble Eagle.. I was one of the idiots who stood out at the airport with a pistol and tried to look busy. The NG were stuck between the Federal Government’s intent for us, the FAA, the FBI, the local police, the airlines, and the security screeners. We had various missions assigned to us, none of which we were allowed to do. In addition we were working 12-13 hour days. So a stressful work environment was a bit of a motivation issue. We regardless were told to continue to keep a professional attitude and appearance to the general public. We did that. Most people were very happy to see us and the thank you’s were generous and frequent. There were some instances of spitting and name calling and otherwise, harmless dissent. Mostly in the form of a arrogant airline pilot that didn’t want to follow the rules.
One particularly chaotic day, I was watching the outbound travelers moving toward their baggage when a man wearing… I can only describe it as some form of Jewish concert paraphernalia… confronted me at my post. He began to point his finger at my face and lecture me as to how my presence was an infringement of his constitutional rights. As I looked around I could see that the soldier up stream of me had just gotten the same lecture. I finally interrupted him…
“Sir, could you please remove you finger from my face and step back.” “What, you don’t agree?”
“Why are you still in my face sir…don’t you have some baggage to claim?” “Why is it that soldiers are the most afraid to respond to my question? Don’t you know that you are stepping on my constitutional rights?”
“First of all, that is not fear..it is professionalism. Your annoying prattle gets ignored because you are free to do so. By the way… are you talking about that same constitution?”
“What?”
“The same constitution that I swore an oath to protect? The same constitution that gives you the right to pester the very soldiers that serve to preserve that freedom? Is that the one you are talking about? Is it the same constitution that my father and his father fought to defend? Is that the…” As the mans face turned red with shock.. cheers from his fellow passengers erupted. He began to mumble his discontent with my response but I couldn’t hear it over the crowd. I stopped him before he could walk away. I then told him.. “ Do not speak to any of my soldiers in this airport. Understand?”
“I have a right to speak to any one I want to.. what are you going to do about it?”
The passenger behind him replied what I was thinking…. “ I’m going to exercise the right to kick your monkey ass!”
One of my shift SGTs replied over my shoulder… “See we like him more than you but we would still have to protect you….. your welcome.”
“Thanks for your opinion sir.. I have had enough. I suggest you move out before I end up having to protect you .. again.”
I found out in the debriefing that day that most of that crowd had thanked the soldiers on the way to their baggage and made sure that our friend kept his opinion to himself.
We made it clear that whether people like us or not…they are also who we are serving. We serve the US constitution, our President, and the US people. We may not agree with all of them, or any of them.. but we serve nonetheless.

[hank]

Now that is a patriot. You can protect my constitution anyday.

Everybody who wants to call libs names and get people kicked off this forum think about what Warpig posted. There is nothing in the constitution that says you have to like somone's opinion to defend it.

You don't monopolize anything - we are all better off for having read this.

hank

[Roger Rabbit]

Define patriotism.

[scoone]

Define patriotism.

For me is the way in which love for your land is shown, To love the land where you live, to protect it from any danger. To cry for it when you are away.

Vox diversa sonat: populorum est vox tamen una, *** verus Patriae diceris esse Pater.

There are many different voice and languages; but there is but one voice of the peoples when you are declared to be the true "Father of your country"

[WARPIG]

Patriotism
****unciation: 'pA-trE-&-"ti-z&m, chiefly British 'pa-
Function: noun
: love for or devotion to one's country

Nationalism
****unciation: 'nash-n&-"li-z&m, 'na-sh&-n&l-"i-z&m
Function: noun
: loyalty and devotion to a nation; especially : a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups

[WARPIG]

Patriotism
****unciation: 'pA-trE-&-"ti-z&m, chiefly British 'pa-
Function: noun
: love for or devotion to one's country

Nationalism
****unciation: 'nash-n&-"li-z&m, 'na-sh&-n&l-"i-z&m
Function: noun
: loyalty and devotion to a nation; especially : a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups

[scoone]

Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.
Author: Charles de Gaulle

[Roger Rabbit]

I would consider myself to be patriotic by those definitions.

[cut]

"patriotism is the virtue of the vicious" 'SAS' Sean Connery in 'The Rock'

[scoone]

"patriotism is the virtue of the vicious" 'SAS' Sean Connery in 'The Rock'

That's from Oscar Wilde

[cut]

"patriotism is the virtue of the vicious" 'SAS' Sean Connery in 'The Rock'

That's from Oscar Wilde

yeah but the rock is more recent, and he credited oscar wilde when he said that.

[scoone]

yes, you're right :D

[HooyahCQB]

"patriotism is the virtue of the vicious" 'SAS' Sean Connery in 'The Rock'

Oscar Wilde is suspected of being homo******

I don't like his literature anyway

[fred_engles]

Oscar Wilde is suspected of being homo*******cough* Suspected?

[citizen-k]

"patriotism is the virtue of the vicious" 'SAS' Sean Connery in 'The Rock'

Oscar Wilde is suspected of being homo******

I don't like his literature anyway

"America had often been discovered before Columbus, but it had always been hushed up."

"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between."

"They say that when good Americans die they go to Paris. — Really! And where do bad Americans go when they die? — They go to America."

"The youth of America is their oldest tradition. It has been going on now for three hundred years. To hear them talk one would imagine that they were in their first childhood. As far as civilisation goes they are in their second."


"What are American dry goods? American novels. "

"American girls are as clever at concealing their parents as English women are at concealing their past. "

"Perhaps, after all, America never has been discovered. I myself would say that it merely had been detected. "

Well, he sure hell didn't like you! rofl

[Fargin]

"patriotism is the virtue of the vicious" 'SAS' Sean Connery in 'The Rock'

Oscar Wilde is suspected of being homo******

I don't like his literature anyway

"America had often been discovered before Columbus, but it had always been hushed up."

"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between."

"They say that when good Americans die they go to Paris. — Really! And where do bad Americans go when they die? — They go to America."

"The youth of America is their oldest tradition. It has been going on now for three hundred years. To hear them talk one would imagine that they were in their first childhood. As far as civilisation goes they are in their second."


"What are American dry goods? American novels. "

"American girls are as clever at concealing their parents as English women are at concealing their past. "

"Perhaps, after all, America never has been discovered. I myself would say that it merely had been detected. "

Well, he sure hell didn't like you! rofl

Ouch, the pen is pointier than a nuclear carrier.

[mustamato]

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/patriot.jpg

I´d say that my patriotism is 45/53, and the 2% left over mixed around the world.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Aw hell yeah, I consider myself patriotic. I got all kinds of American Flag stickers all over, play the John Phillips Sousa music on the 4th of July etc.

I guess some of us see different visions of America when they see the flag. Some see Iwo Jima, some see the "man keepin' 'em down".

But how can you not support a system that lets you change things you don't like? I could see not being patriotic in say, North Korea, where you have absolutely no say so in how things get done.

In the US, being patriotic is kind of like rooting for a football team that gets moved every 4 years. If the leadership & agenda changes every 4 years, what exactly am I rooting for? The system, I guess.

Having been military for many years, I sort of automatically support the troops. I supported the troops under Clinton, didn't like his foreign policy decisions, but still considered myself patriotic anyhow.

[hank]

"patriotism is the virtue of the vicious" 'SAS' Sean Connery in 'The Rock'

Oscar Wilde is suspected of being homo******

I don't like his literature anyway

Engles nailed this, Oscar Wilde was unabashedly homo******.

hank

[serbian boy]

http://www.bulba.eu.org/mil/free/t72/m84(3).jpg

http://home.hiwaay.net/~craigg/g4c/serb-boy-skopje.jpg
Young Patriotism

http://www.fotw.net/images/y/yu!srst.gif

http://www.asbandeiras.hpg.ig.com.br/mundo/07estunidconfed1860.JPG

[hank]

serbian boy, bet you can't tell me what the one at the bottom is. define it, I dare you.

hank

[cut]

a rip off of this flag p-)


http://www.midcoast.com/~martucci/flags/images/gb-scot.gif

[California Joe]

I can in great detail. Oh yeah, you knew that....dammit......*kicking stone*

[hank]

The point is that serbian boy can't and most people who wave it don't know what it is. I know Joe will expound on this, but let's give serbian boy a chance to respond. As soon as he finishes that 10th coke.

hank

[kinghk]

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/patriot.jpg

I´d say that my patriotism is 45/53, and the 2% left over mixed around the world.

Is Sweden 45 or 53?

[California Joe]

a rip off of this flag p-)


http://www.midcoast.com/~martucci/flags/images/gb-scot.gif

yes, St Andrews cross is an integral part of that flag.

[hank]

In fact St. Andrew himself was scheduled to take over in case Jefferson Davis was unable to continue in his duties. Little known fact. serbian boy! Where are you?

hank

[California Joe]

Yeah but that's only because they were 1st cousins on his mom's side Hank. Jeez.

[Haiw]

Isn't that the southerners flag in the civil war? Not that I know anything about those things ;)

[usa320]

Get decaf next time.


rofl

[serbian boy]

Ok now that I'm done with my coke,mmmmm, oh right! I'm on an forum, okay basically the confederate flag isn't displayed in an racist way, but is rather an flag of defiance and tradition, this flag was in numerous places, from what I've heard in friends war stories, flown by Serbian forces during the war in Bosnia. Also the Republika Srpska received numerous donations from American Southerner Organizations who supported the serb cause throughout the war against muslim terrorism, and even donations from the Ku Klux Klan from what I've heard, although I'm not sure. So thats basically why I posted that flag there. :D

[duck]

I've got African-American friends from the South. Are you denying their equal rights to live and prosper there? :slap:

[serbian boy]

Buddy, I just said the flag I posted was IN NO, I REPEAT, NO way meant as racist. If you would have read my post it explains everything about the flag I posted and it's relation to serbs. :D

[hank]

serbian boy - now that you've put the coke down - READ my question! I did not accuse you of racism I asked what that bottom flag was. The point is that you post it but you don't know what it is. I know what it is and therefore I know its meaning - but you do not and I knew you did not.

I don't think you are racist, stupid maybe, but not necessrily racist.

Ok Joe, now you can give us all the low-down. I know it was the battle flag for the confederacy but you know a lot more details than I do.

serbian boy - pay attention - you might actually learn something here.

When Joe is finished I'll tell you why the University of Mississippi used to display it and now does not.

hank

[serbian boy]

Hey I know what it is! It's the confederate flag used during the American Civil war, it was used by the southern states who did not want to conform with the new slave laws and formed their own country, the Confederacy, what more do I need to know about It. The only reason I posted it is because it has been used as a sign of defiance and by serb forces in bosnia. :)

[Shadow]

I am Euro-Patriotic! :D

[California Joe]

Confederate Stars and Bars
The First Official Flag of the Confederacy.
Although less well known than the "Confederate Battle Flags", the Stars and Bars was used as the official flag of the Confederacy from March 1861 to May of 1863.
The pattern and colors of this flag did not distinguish it sharply fom the Stars and Stripes of the Union. Consequently, considerable confusion was caused on the battlefield.


The seven stars represent the original Confederate States;


South Carolina (December 20, 1860)

Mississippi(January 9, 1861)

Florida (January 10,1861)

Alabama (January 11, 1861)

Georgia (January 19, 1861)

Louisiana (January 26, 1861)

and Texas (February 1, 1861)


The second Official Flag of the Confederacy
On May 1st,1863, a second design was adopted, placing the Battle Flag (also known as the "Southern Cross") as the canton on a white field. This flag was easily mistaken for a white flag of surrender especially when the air was calm and the flag hung limply.
Efforts to secede failed in Kentucky and Missouri though those states were represented by two of the stars. *(see note below)
The flag now had 13 stars having been joined officially by four more states,
Virginia (April 17, 1861),
Arkansas (May 6, 1861),
Tennessee (May 7, 1861),
North Carolina (May 21, 1861).



The third Official Flag of the Confederacy
The third Official Flag of the Confederacy. On March 4th,1865, a short time before the collapse of the Confederacy, a third pattern was adapted; a broad bar of red was placed on the fly end of the white field.



The Confederate Battle Flag
The best-known Confederate flag was the Battle Flag, the familiar "Southern Cross". It was carried by Confederate troops in the field which were the vast majority of forces under the confederacy.
The Stars represented the 11 states actually in the Confederacy plus Kentucky and Missouri.



Confederate Navy Jack is actually the one you posted.
Used as a navy jack at sea from 1863 onward. This flag has become the generally recognized symbol of the South.


The first recorded use of the lone star flag dates to 1810. On September 11, 1810 a troop of West Florida dragoons set out for the provincial capitol at Baton Rouge under this flag. They were joined by other republican forces and captured Baton Rouge, imprisoned the Governor and on September 23, 1810 raised their Bonnie Blue flag over the Fort of Baton Rouge. Three days later the president of the West Florida Convention, signed a Declaration of Independence and the flag became the emblem of a new republic. By December 10, the flag of the United States replaced the Bonnie Blue after President Madison issued a proclamation declaring West Florida under the jurisdiction of the Governor of the Louisiana Territory. With this rebellion in mind, this flag was used by the Republic of Texas from 1836 to 1839. On January 9, 1861 the convention of the People of Mississippi adopted an Ordinance of Secession. With this announcement the Bonnie Blue flag was raised over the capitol building in Jackson. Harry Macarthy was so inspired that he wrote a song entitled "The Bonnie Blue Flag" which became the second most popular patriotic song of the Confederacy. The Confederate government did not adopt this flag but the people did and the lone star flags were adopted in some form in five of the southern States that adopted new flags in 1861.
Bonnie Blue

[farmgirl]

This history lesson brought to you courtesy of California Joe..... just one of the many services he so willingly provides..... ;)

[hank]

Joe, I feel like I am in the presence of greatness. Thanks for laying that out so eloquently. Much appreciated, and I learned something. You da man.

Now about Ole Miss (University of Mississippi) and a lot of the bigeer state universities in the South. Ole Miss football fans used to wave the Stars and Bars at football games. Occasionally, an over-imbibed studetn or two would actully storm the field and run the filed's length with the stars and bars waving proudly. I never saw it, but I hear tell that this also happend at U Ala., U Ga., Auburn, etc. Not now b/c all the big Southern schools have banned the stars and bars in their football stadiums.

When I first heard of this I was appalled, and for many years after I resented the fact that current Ole Miss students could not wave the flag as I did. Then I did a little research about the issue. Ole Miss did not start using the flag at football games until the late 50's. So, the idea that the flag was Southern tradition and all was not true, the reality was that the falg only started getting used when civil rights became an issue.

So, if you see seom Civil Wars reenactors carrying the stars and bars, give em a little respect b/c it represents Southern heritage and not necessarily racism. But, if you see people who don't know about these facts surrounding the stars and bars, give 'em a wide berth b/c they don't REALLY know what they are waving or even what it might represent.

hank

[California Joe]

(I copied some of it from one of my books) Wanted to get the dates right and all. ;)

[Trigger]

CJ could you possibly be more gay?

er,ummm I mean Great Post! woot

[farmgirl]

CJ could you possibly be more gay?

er,ummm I mean Great Post! woot


dammit Trigger... I'm warning you....
that's twice in one hour!

nobody puts CJ in a corner.... I mean... he's not gay.... he's just really.... um.... artistic... yeah that's it p-) ;)

[Salty Dog]

CJ could you possibly be more gay?

er,ummm I mean Great Post! woot


dammit Trigger... I'm warning you....
that's twice in one hour!

nobody puts CJ in a corner.... I mean... he's not gay.... he's just really.... um.... artistic... yeah that's it p-) ;)

artsy little ****o

[hank]

He is just in touch with his feminie side in a way that is consistent with homo******ity, that don't mean he's gay, just . . . how shall I say . . . enlightened, yeah, enlightened.

hank

[WARPIG]

CJ doesn't believe that it is "gay" as long as the gerbils... or powertools he shoves up his cornhole have female names.

How is "Big Shiela" any way?

sorry joe.. I havn't really insulted anyone all day and was starting to get the DTs.

[California Joe]

I display an amazing historical acumen and get called gay as a result? Bastards, the lot of ya.

"The British are a strange race, they speak like women but fight like tigers" Gen James Longstreet remarking on the Coldstream Guard who's name I can't recall travelling with the Confederates before *****sburg...

[memphiz]

I display an amazing historical acumen and get called gay as a result? Bastards, the lot of ya.

"The British are a strange race, they speak like women but fight like tigers" Gen James Longstreet remarking on the Coldstream Guard who's name I can't recall travelling with the Confederates before *****sburg...
im going to put that in my sig

[farmgirl]

I display an amazing historical acumen and get called gay as a result? Bastards, the lot of ya.

"The British are a strange race, they speak like women but fight like tigers" Gen James Longstreet remarking on the Coldstream Guard who's name I can't recall travelling with the Confederates before *****sburg...


If the pastel colored smock fits..... wear it..... p-)

[California Joe]

I don't have a smock. I wear an old denim shirt....



Yeah, that's about it.

[farmgirl]

I don't have a smock. I wear an old denim shirt....



Yeah, that's about it.


wait.... trying to get a mental picture.....

are you saying that you paint in JUST an old denim shirt???

Hmmmmm I find that a bit disturbing..... p-)

[California Joe]

OK, wore leather chaps too while I drew you, happy now?

[Trigger]

He left out the thong 'cuz he didn't think you could handle it.

[California Joe]

To paraphrase Jack: "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE THONG"

[farmgirl]

He left out the thong 'cuz he didn't think you could handle it.


that was probably a good call.... I'm not sure I like the thought of Joe in a pair of grape smugglers..... :roll:

[California Joe]

I rarely wear underwear and when I do...... ;)

[Trigger]

"The Thong Remains the Same"

[farmgirl]

"The Thong Remains the Same" :cantbeli:

[Trigger]

I rarely wear underwear and when I do......

...It's usually something unusual... :D

[hank]

Thong thung blue, eveybody knows one - sing along you know you know the words - Thing thung blue, . . .

hank

[farmgirl]

I rarely wear underwear and when I do......

...It's usually something unusual... :D

That's a fact, Jack ;)

[Apogee]

Come on Farmgirl, everyone knows thats a Stripes quote

[farmgirl]

Thong thung blue, eveybody knows one - sing along you know you know the words - Thing thung blue, . . .

hank

Hank Diamond...... ;)

[farmgirl]

Come on Farmgirl, everyone knows thats a Stripes quote


I know honey.... that's why I answered with another.....

"that's a fact, Jack....." ;)

[Jack Mehoff]

Babe. You call me?

[Trigger]

"Thonnng, thong of the thouth. Thweet potato-pie and-a shut mah mouth..."

sorry, couldn't resist.

[MARINO]

Being patriotic in Spain is quite difficult on these days.

True but i used to wear all spanish flags i can't .In my back pack my belt by woorkbook, etc..

[Durandal]

The wrong question was asked I believe.

It should have been:

Do you consider yourself a patriot?

Who cares if you are patriotic. Anyone can be patriotic and it is as easy to say as saying..."I like the Color Blue." I mean, its nice and comfortable when you talk about it around the grill cooking up hot dogs and July 4th, but what value does it REALLY have?

BEING a patriot.

Now that is something...

[farmgirl]

The wrong question was asked I believe.

It should have been:

Do you consider yourself a patriot?

Who cares if you are patriotic. Anyone can be patriotic and it is as easy to say as saying..."I like the Color Blue." I mean, its nice and comfortable when you talk about it around the grill cooking up hot dogs and July 4th, but what value does it REALLY have?

BEING a patriot.

Now that is something...



Well said, Durandal.....
now when are you picking me up for the big shoot out??? ;)

[Durandal]

Well said, Durandal.....
now when are you picking me up for the big shoot out??? ;)

That depends on whether you want to go the long route and stay in Barbados for a night or two, then maybe Chicago for a another couple of nights. We might want to leave a little bit earlier. Just to make sure.

;)

[California Joe]

I'm so gonna cockpunch you.

[farmgirl]

Well said, Durandal.....
now when are you picking me up for the big shoot out??? ;)

That depends on whether you want to go the long route and stay in Barbados for a night or two, then maybe Chicago for a another couple of nights. We might want to leave a little bit earlier. Just to make sure.

;)


Well yeah... isn't Barbados on the way to Kentucky? ;)
(Don't listen to joe... he won't punch you....he might draw you naked though) p-)

[gaz]

I'm so gonna cockpunch you.

I'm truly overjoyed that "cockpunch" is becoming a term in common usage on this board. I'm so proud I might just have to go and buy a new hat for my dog to wear.

[Durandal]

I'm so gonna cockpunch you.

rofl

Awww Joe, you know I am just teasing.

P.S. : Just a reminder... you need to send me the dimensions for a certain would blank....I have yet to receive....the sooner I get them to sooner I can cut it. Takes a good year or two for that stuff to REALLY dry.

[California Joe]

Coming right up, hey I figured out what "quarter sawn" means....

[Apogee]

Come on Farmgirl, everyone knows thats a Stripes quote


I know honey.... that's why I answered with another.....

"that's a fact, Jack....." ;)
oops.

Sorry about that. Its been a helluva long week (even though its a short week) out here.

[farmgirl]

Come on Farmgirl, everyone knows thats a Stripes quote


I know honey.... that's why I answered with another.....

"that's a fact, Jack....." ;)
oops.

Sorry about that. Its been a helluva long week (even though its a short week) out here.


awww.... that's okay.... I'm used to being questioned. ;)
It was a short week here too, but it seems like it's been really long to me. TGIF! :)

[Durandal]

Coming right up, hey I figured out what "quarter sawn" means....

Rock on...

Order up! One Walnut blank...over easy...

Cheers!

[Durandal]

Well yeah... isn't Barbados on the way to Kentucky? ;)
(Don't listen to joe... he won't punch you....he might draw you naked though) p-)

You know farmgirl. I think I deleted my reply to this four times...so, I'll keep it simple.

Yes, it can be.

I like to listen to Joe...

I know.

Ummm....well....how about we bring him along and he can draw us both nekkid? rofl

[hank]

Durandal probably knows this, and so does Joe, but for the sake of the rest of you guys. You know the difference b/w "naked" and "nekkid", right?

naked = without clothes

nekkid = without clothes and doing something you are not supposed to do

Courtesy of the late, great Lewis Grizzard.

hank

[farmgirl]

Durandal:

Ummm....well....how about we bring him along and he can draw us both nekkid?



Hank:

naked = without clothes

nekkid = without clothes and doing something you are not supposed to do




Okay.... well this does add a whole new dimension......

I was not aware of the difference..... between Naked and Nekkid.....

*pulling on coat and getting car keys....*

Durandal..... I'm on my way..... p-)

[Durandal]

Damn, now I have to tell the roommate he cannot come home from work.

Oh, and farmgirl?

Nekkid... ;)

[hank]

I am not sure if the distinction applies north of the Mason-Dixon, but certainly in TN and GA it is a known fact.

hank

[farmgirl]

I am not sure if the distinction applies north of the Mason-Dixon, but certainly in TN and GA it is a known fact.

hank


Hey... I'm glad to know it.... who knows how many opportunities I've missed by not having that information. I'm in your debt, hank.

Durandal.... I'm counting on it.... ;)

[Durandal]

Durandal.... I'm counting on it.... ;)

Well damn, its, like, 4:10 AM here and no farmgirl....just a tease...bah!

I am going to bed. The door is open.

;)

[farmgirl]

Durandal.... I'm counting on it.... ;)

Well damn, its, like, 4:10 AM here and no farmgirl....just a tease...bah!

I am going to bed. The door is open.

;)


damn.... got lost on my way to Kentucky.... ended up in Barbados....
so now I guess I'll just spend the rest of the weekend here on the beach. ;)

[Jack Mehoff]

<---my door is also open

[Durandal]

so now I guess I'll just spend the rest of the weekend here on the beach. ;)

*calling sick for all of next week and buying ticket*

[farmgirl]

so now I guess I'll just spend the rest of the weekend here on the beach. ;)

*calling sick for all of next week and buying ticket*


When are you getting here, Durandal? I need someone to put some oil on my back. ;)

[memphiz]

so now I guess I'll just spend the rest of the weekend here on the beach. ;)

*calling sick for all of next week and buying ticket*


When are you getting here, Durandal? I need someone to put some oil on my back. ;)
I'm on my way :D


http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/images/smilies/***.gif ;)

[Durandal]

When are you getting here, Durandal? I need someone to put some oil on my back. ;)

When you say "back" you really mean "chest", right?

:P

[California Joe]

*casting MORE bullets*

[farmgirl]

When are you getting here, Durandal? I need someone to put some oil on my back. ;)

When you say "back" you really mean "chest", right?

:P


duh p-) (I just didn't want the boys to get all excited)

[Durandal]

*casting MORE bullets*

Isn't Black Powder a great hobby!

:|

[farmgirl]

*casting MORE bullets*

Isn't Black Powder a great hobby!

:|


Don't mind him.... he's busy drawing Haiw naked. ;)

Hey D.... tried to check out your website but couldn't get it.... what gives?

[Haiw]

Is not! I'm only helping him casting the bullets!

He said I'd get a free ride if I helped him.

[farmgirl]

Is not! I'm only helping him casting the bullets!

He said I'd get a free ride if I helped him.


:petting: It's okay, Haiw.... I'll protect you from the bad man. ;)

[Durandal]

Hey D.... tried to check out your website but couldn't get it.... what gives?

I am lazy. I have been redesigning it, or rather not...

The first website I did a couple months ago was a a 2 month .Mac account. I let it expire and got a new one with a new user name. I haven't completed getting it together yet.

I have been spending a lot of time painting my bedroom and renvoating a basement room into a jazzy workshop/gunsmithing room. Painting any part of the room or replacing wood work tends to be a pain in the ass with 15 foot ceilings...uggg.

I think I should have bought a shorter house. :)

[Haiw]

Puh. I don't need no protection from a woman. I'll rip his ********s off myself.

[Durandal]

Puh. I don't need no protection from a woman. I'll rip his ********s off myself.

*Looks at Haiw*

I know that wasn't directed at me.

:D

[Haiw]

Yours got ripped off already?

[Durandal]

Yours got ripped off already?

Nor will they ever be...

[Haiw]

You never know what life has in store for you... ;)

[Durandal]

You never know what life has in store for you... ;)

Strong words coming from a guy that has to FLY across an ocean to a country that allows its citizens ownership of firearms. :D

Have a good weekend man!

[farmgirl]

You never know what life has in store for you... ;)

Strong words coming from a guy that has to FLY across an ocean to a country that allows its citizens ownership of firearms. :D

Have a good weekend man!


and besides.... Durandal's going to be busy being my beck and call boy..... ;)

[Haiw]

Hey I didn't say I would have to be the one ripping 'em off...but what if some crazy dog at a farm in Iowa would rip 'em off? :D

[memphiz]

Hey I didn't say I would have to be the one ripping 'em off...but what if some crazy dog at a farm in Iowa would rip 'em off? :D

a crazy dog with wooden shoes ;)

[Haiw]

And tulips in his mouth of course... His doghouse is in the shape of a windmill.

[memphiz]

And tulips in his mouth of course... His doghouse is in the shape of a windmill.
:lol:

[Durandal]

And tulips in his mouth of course... His doghouse is in the shape of a windmill.

rofl

Ok, that is just odd...

[farmgirl]

And tulips in his mouth of course... His doghouse is in the shape of a windmill.

rofl

Ok, that is just odd...

and you are surprised by that..... why????? p-)

[Haiw]

And tulips in his mouth of course... His doghouse is in the shape of a windmill.

rofl

Ok, that is just odd...
It's what you call a 'patriotic dog'.

[Durandal]

Hey D.... tried to check out your website but couldn't get it.... what gives?

Back up now...just click on my sig or go to: http://homepage.mac.com/thesw0rdofroland/Menu8.html

That will dump you to the firearms portion of the website. Just click on "main" to get to main menu if you want to see non-firarms related stuff.

I going to put up a nice shot of the sections of Walnut I cut last week to turn into at least, one stock, for Joe.

[farmgirl]

Hey D.... tried to check out your website but couldn't get it.... what gives?

Back up now...just click on my sig or go to: http://homepage.mac.com/thesw0rdofroland/Menu8.html

That will dump you to the firearms portion of the website. Just click on "main" to get to main menu if you want to see non-firarms related stuff.

I going to put up a nice shot of the sections of Walnut I cut last week to turn into at least, one stock, for Joe.


Thanks Dr. Evil.... ;)
I enjoyed looking at your stuff. You are kinda cute.... when you gettin' to Barbados.... my tan is uneven.... and no one wants that! p-)

[Durandal]

Thanks Dr. Evil.... ;)
I enjoyed looking at your stuff. You are kinda cute.... when you gettin' to Barbados.... my tan is uneven.... and no one wants that! p-)

All I have to do is find a Mini-Me.

I'll be down in a second.

Oh, and farmgirl, take off the swim suit, then your tan will be MUCH more even. :D

[farmgirl]

Thanks Dr. Evil.... ;)
I enjoyed looking at your stuff. You are kinda cute.... when you gettin' to Barbados.... my tan is uneven.... and no one wants that! p-)

All I have to do is find a Mini-Me.

I'll be down in a second.

Oh, and farmgirl, take off the swim suit, then your tan will be MUCH more even. :D

Thanks Durandal.... I never would have thought of that! You're so smart! ;)

[Haiw]

You'll get skin cancer though. Just warning ya.

[farmgirl]

You'll get skin cancer though. Just warning ya.

damn, haiw.... why you gotta go and ruin all my fun!? How about if I take my suit off....but I stay inside? Will that work? ;)

[Haiw]

Nah...better stay outside. We didn't spend all this money on binoculars for frikking bird watching.

[farmgirl]

Nah...better stay outside. We didn't spend all this money on binoculars for frikking bird watching.


rofl It's okay.... Joe's gonna draw me. :)

[Durandal]

rofl