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Violet Fashion by Mindy
01-05-2006, 10:33 PM
Bring back the draft, cries Young ALP
By Jonathan Pearlman
January 6, 2006

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/01/05/conscription6106_narrowweb__300x305,0.jpg

Protesters burn their national service papers at an anti-conscription rally in the 1960s.
Photo: Fairfax Archives


THE youth wing of the party that repeatedly opposed conscription during the Vietnam War wants to bring back national service.
NSW Young Labor, Australia's largest political youth group, is backing compulsory national service for high school students as part of their graduation.

The group's president, Sam Dastyari, said there were too many young people who were not willing to contribute to society. "It does not mean you would have to do military service or be an army cadet," he said.
"The community service could take many forms, from being an army cadet to helping with chores at the local retirement village. It could be helping community groups or churches or charities."
Mr Dastyari, 22, said the plan would ensure students received a "well-rounded education".
"You can learn more from working in the community than you can behind a desk in a class," he said. "It is only fair that after having been given so much from the community during your schooling years, students should be required to formally contribute to Australian society."

National service was last introduced in 1964 as a response to "aggressive communism" and "recent Indonesian policies and actions" and a "deterioration in our strategic position". Men aged 20 were required to serve in the army for two years, followed by three years in the reserve.
The policy sparked mass protests and was opposed by the ALP at elections in 1966, 1969 and 1972. One of Gough Whitlam's first actions on being elected prime minister in 1972 was to abolish it.

The federal Labor leader, Kim Beazley, who was exempted from the service ballot during the Vietnam War because he was studying, said last year that any future national service should be "either all in or all volunteers".
Mr Dastyari said the service would be a formal requirement for completing high school and was based on a similar scheme in Sweden. Community bodies such as sports groups, churches or retirement homes would be able to apply to the Government to take part in the scheme.
The plan was adopted unanimously by the 400 delegates at Young Labor's annual conference last year. It will be presented to the party's state and federal conferences this year and if adopted would be incorporated into policy for next year's election.

Young Labor, with more than 5000 members, has previously been at the forefront of changing Labor's policies on mandatory detention and the establishment of the radio station Triple j.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2006/01/05/1136387573218.html

Macklin backs national service plan

By Clay Lucas
January 6, 2006 - 12:40PM



Federal ALP deputy leader Jenny Macklin has endorsed a call by NSW Young Labor to introduce national service for high school students.
The youth wing of the Labor Party, and Australia's largest political youth group, yesterday called for the resumption of national service for high schools students as part of their graduation.
The national service would not necessarily take the form of military training, the group's president Sam Dastyari said.
"The community service could take many forms, from being an army cadet to helping with chores at the local retirement village,'' Mr Dastyari said. "It could be helping community groups or churches or charities.''
Ms Macklin said that it was an effective way to get young people more involved in society.
"We would encourage volunteering. I'd like to see it as part of the school curriculum, to encourage young people to volunteer, but I don't see it as being compulsory.
"Labor certainly would like to see young people encouraged to volunteer. This could be done as part of a curriculum at school, to make it possible for young people to include volunteering during their time at school.
"I think it would be a good oppportunity for the young people concerned to contribute to the community and also important for the voluntary agencies.
"But we wouldn't propose that (this work) be compulsory. The whole point of volunterring is that it's voluntary.''
The Salvation Army was also supportive of the scheme.
"We're fully supporting this initiative," said Salvation Army spokesman Pat Daley.
"There is a growing awareness in the community about the need to assist people who find themselves in difficult circumstances.
"Anything that's going to educate young people about the need to assist the less fortunate is a step in the right direction."
When national service was last introduced in 1964 all Australian men aged 20 were required to register for two years in the army, followed by three years in the reserve.
Almost 64,000 were conscripted and more than 19,000 served in the Vietnam War.
National service sparked massive protests and was strenuously opposed by the ALP, with Gough Whitlam scrapping it when he was voted in as prime minister in 1972.
"They're talking about volunteering, not compulsory military service. It's community service. The big campaigns we all ran in the 1960s and 70s were opposing compulsory military service, and that's not what Young Labor is proposing,'' Ms Macklin said.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/macklin-backs-national-service-plan/2006/01/06/1136387602777.html

zonk
01-05-2006, 10:34 PM
the draft has its ups and downs, i think they need to weigh this option very seriously

goldman
01-05-2006, 10:34 PM
Man Hippies, nobody understands them!

Kilgor
01-05-2006, 10:43 PM
makes you wonder why labor hates work for the dole.

I just dont understand the ALP

Violet Fashion by Mindy
01-05-2006, 10:44 PM
Because Work for the Dole is nothing more then slave labour.

Kilgor
01-05-2006, 10:48 PM
slavery ?

They do get a dole cheque.

Its called mutual obligation... you work - you get paid.

Resurrection
01-05-2006, 10:53 PM
The system here is hardly compulsory anymore since the end of the Cold War.

ShotOver
01-05-2006, 11:04 PM
It's about time, I lose sleep at night thinking about the horrible fact that I have to grow up with these teenagers of today.
Can't stand it.

They need to do somthing, give them some good old discipline which their parents seem to refuse doing.

Do a little military service, don't make them join as reserves/full time Army, simply because if we get in the **** I don't want them in combat.

Army Cadets sounds good, this has to be the ONLY labor idea i've ever agreed with.

Oh and Minardiau, the dole is a great idea. The people on it are pathetic and therefore should be doing the ****ty jobs to get their dole check.
If anyone thinks they can drop out of highschool, surf and not work then they have a surprise waitin for them..

BloodyTalon
01-05-2006, 11:07 PM
I don't see anything beneficial about drafts. A volunteer force is better than a conscripted force.

Kilgor
01-05-2006, 11:09 PM
If anyone thinks they can drop out of highschool, surf and not work then they have a surprise waitin for them..

and smoke cones, wake up at 1pm and complain about how bad the government is, when in any other country they would have starved to death from being lazy.

Ea$y-8
01-05-2006, 11:15 PM
Do a little military service, don't make them join as reserves/full time Army, simply because if we get in the **** I don't want them in combat.

I don't understand why people look down on draftees, Like the guy on Black Hawk Down said "once that first bullet goes pass your head politics and all that other stuff... Goes right out the window.'

Michael RVR
01-05-2006, 11:18 PM
and smoke cones, wake up at 1pm and complain about how bad the government is, when in any other country they would have starved to death from being lazy.

Too right.

sickpup
01-06-2006, 12:09 AM
I don't understand why people look down on draftees

Because an all-volunteer force means everyone wants to be there (or, at least agreed to the potential of being there). A draftee is only there because he has to be. Just look at the effectiveness and conduct of the US military during the Vietnam war and compare it to the professionalism found in the US military of today.

Anthony91
01-06-2006, 12:47 AM
In the words of Cartman:

GOD DAMN HIPPIES

digrar
01-06-2006, 01:00 AM
Because an all-volunteer force means everyone wants to be there (or, at least agreed to the potential of being there). A draftee is only there because he has to be. Just look at the effectiveness and conduct of the US military during the Vietnam war and compare it to the professionalism found in the US military of today.

Or you can have a look at Australia during Viet Nam, where they worked very very well, they were well trained, well led and performed brilliantly. Granted we were on a smaller scale and could give them a better grounding in the skill of arms, we also deployed as complete units rather than the American trickle replacement system which helped with morale and unit cohesivness. But it can work, if you want an American example look at WWII.

usa320
01-06-2006, 01:17 AM
i think teens should have to do something as far as community service in order to graduate... I know when i was in highschool we had to do "10 hours of community service" to meet a grad requirement, but it usually meant either getting someone to sign the paper for you, or doing something like shoveling the neighbors driveway in the winter...the last year of school they did away with it all together because no one was actually doing it. i think some kind of real service should be mandated... not saying a military draft...but a choice should be given...military, fire/rescue, security, helping the church or poor, ems, directing traffic..ect...something...

Resurrection
01-06-2006, 01:20 AM
usa320 is on to something.

Opening Batsman
01-06-2006, 01:47 AM
I reckon it would be good for a range of things, but not if they all had to go into the military. I wouldn't want 90% of the people that I know in the military.

Thor
01-06-2006, 03:56 AM
I think the military should be some mix of draft and volunteering.

oregongrunt
01-06-2006, 04:02 AM
I never figured out why the ones that were never in the military are the ones that always want a draft.

Thor
01-06-2006, 04:47 AM
I never figured out why the ones that were never in the military are the ones that always want a draft.
Not really true. In many countries the officer corps are the ones advocating it or a mix.

RAA_GnrCheck
01-06-2006, 05:47 AM
i think teens should have to do something as far as community service in order to graduate... I know when i was in highschool we had to do "10 hours of community service" to meet a grad requirement, but it usually meant either getting someone to sign the paper for you, or doing something like shoveling the neighbors driveway in the winter...the last year of school they did away with it all together because no one was actually doing it. i think some kind of real service should be mandated... not saying a military draft...but a choice should be given...military, fire/rescue, security, helping the church or poor, ems, directing traffic..ect...something...

thats what the draft is about, the community service before before graduating was metioned in it. it doesn't help with the name "draft" since everyone will thinks of military conscription.

Thor
01-06-2006, 06:28 AM
Military concription is great when is great when it's used right, in my opinion.. You got to mix it though and deployments abroad must always be voluntarily.

Crna Legija
01-06-2006, 07:05 AM
I can't imagine the pack of farkwits from my neighbourhood (western Sydney) doing anything productive after they have been taught how to shoot and fight.

Community service? Definitely. Teaching bad eggs how to put down a target at 400m? No way.

Pai Mei
01-06-2006, 07:55 AM
Germany has a system like this. Military service is nominally mandatory, but can be substituted for various forms of community service.
See the article in wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Germany)

Maybe our German members can comment on this...

sp2c
01-06-2006, 08:05 AM
military draft is extremely expensive because the troops only stay in the army for a year or so and a new batch has to be trained from scratch every year.

JoaMei
01-06-2006, 08:12 AM
Germany has a system like this. Military service is nominally mandatory, but can be substituted for various forms of community service.
See the article in wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Germany)

Maybe our German members can comment on this...

Its ****, because only a small part of those who actually would have to serve are being drafted. So those who dont want to serve in the military can serve civil service in healthcare, THW(Disaster relief) or Fire brigade.

Im for a volunteer army in Germany.