USMC Scout Helicopter question

[thatguy96]

Has the USMC ever used the OH-6 or OH-58 families, and did they ever have dedicated scout helicopters or did they just use gunships of varying types in this role? I can't find any evidence of them using either of these families or any truly scout oriented helicopters and I was wondering if this was basically true.

[JoaMei]

Has the USMC ever used the OH-6 or OH-58 families, and did they ever have dedicated scout helicopters or did they just use gunships of varying types in this role? I can't find any evidence of them using either of these families or any truly scout oriented helicopters and I was wondering if this was basically true.

Isnt the Cobra for both, attack and scouting?

[thatguy96]

This was what I thought the accepted tactic of the USMC was, to use the AH-1 for both of these roles. In the US Army it was different, and the AH-1 was used more as purely a gunship, while the OH-6 and OH-58 were used in the scout role.

[usm2b]

As far as I know the usmc only uses
ah-1 - attack
ch-53 - transport
uh-1 - transport
f-18c/d - fighter/attack
av-8b - attack
f-35b - fighter/attack
c-130 - transport
ch-46 - transport
mv-22 - transport.

46,av-8b will soon be replaced by mv-22 and f-35
anything I'm missing?

[Greek soldier]

The USMC should had used the OH-56 Kiowas. It proved very reliable since the 1970's, but maybe they wanted few helicopter types and merge 2 activities to one helicopter.

[Resurrection]

Why didn't the USMC replace the CH-46s with CH-47s? Was it just because of the V-22 program or did they find that the Chinook was not suitable?

[Ratamacue]

Why didn't the USMC replace the CH-46s with CH-47s? Was it just because of the V-22 program or did they find that the Chinook was not suitable?
The CH-47 is a much larger helicopter than the CH-46. Its role (heavy lift) is already fulfilled by the CH-53 in USMC service. The CH-46 is a medium lift transport, for which role the MV-22 is better suited. It's also very possible that the CH-47 can't be stowed aboard our amphibious ships.

[baboon6]

The Chinook is a lot bigger than the CH-46 or the Osprey. They are in fact almost contemporaries, but the USMC got the CH-53 instead of the 47.

[Resurrection]

Oh okay thanks for the replies.

[thatguy96]

Okay, thanks for further clearing this up. Another question that people reading this might know, does anyone have a timeline for the adoption of the various Seasprite models (H-2 series) by the USN?

[baboon6]

Uh-2a: 1962
Sh-2d (lamps): 1971

[thatguy96]

Do you know when the UH-2C comes online? Apparently these were used for CSAR before the purpose built HH-2D was developed, and both apparently shared a similar armament suite.

[KEEPER0311]

The CH-47 is a much larger helicopter than the CH-46. Its role (heavy lift) is already fulfilled by the CH-53 in USMC service. The CH-46 is a medium lift transport, for which role the MV-22 is better suited. It's also very possible that the CH-47 can't be stowed aboard our amphibious ships.
X2. Aswell that the Marines have limited funds, and replacing all the 46's with 47's is costly. Especially seeing how they osprey will be going into service in 2007.

[thatguy96]

Hasn't the CH-46 already been slated to be phased out by the CH-53?

[Ratamacue]

Hasn't the CH-46 already been slated to be phased out by the CH-53?No. Like said above, they fill entirely different roles. The CH-46 is a medium transport. The CH-53 is a heavy lifter. The CH-46E is going to be replaced by the MV-22 over the next few years, and the CH-53E will be upgraded to the CH-53K starting in 2015.

[AOCBravo2004]

The UH-1N's are assigned to HMLA squadrons. UH-1N's and AH-1W's are at times utilized in the hunter killer role, 2 AH-1W's and 1 UH-1N since the Huey is equipped with a FLIR sensor under the nose.

[JoaMei]

The UH-1N's are assigned to HMLA squadrons. UH-1N's and AH-1W's are at times utilized in the hunter killer role, 2 AH-1W's and 1 UH-1N since the Huey is equipped with a FLIR sensor under the nose.

Thats interesting, the german Army has demand for a CH-53G replacement. Will they go for CH-53K or will they develop their own?

[thatguy96]

Is the EH-101 large enough to replace the CH-53? That appears to be a popular choice among European air arms and armies, and is even making inroads in the US.

[Ratamacue]

The EH-101 is a medium helicopter like the CH-46. However, the US-101 (American version of EH-101) was chosen as the replacement for the VH-3D Sea King as Marine One, the President's helicopter.

[AOCBravo2004]

No. Like said above, they fill entirely different roles. The CH-46 is a medium transport. The CH-53 is a heavy lifter. The CH-46E is going to be replaced by the MV-22 over the next few years, and the CH-53E will be upgraded to the CH-53K starting in 2015.

The CH-53E will not be upgraded, the CH-53K's are going to be new builds.

[JoaMei]

Is the EH-101 large enough to replace the CH-53? That appears to be a popular choice among European air arms and armies, and is even making inroads in the US.

No, because you cant fit a "Wiesel" in an EH-101 and not to speak of two.


http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/wiesel-001.jpg

[ArmyJonHall]

To answer the original question, which no-one else seems have to done yet, yes the Marines use the UH-1N in a scout role in conjunction with AH-1Z fire teams. The UN-1N is used in a mini-AWAC role, during the ground invasion in 2003 it was used to co-ordinate all Marine fire support assets- F/A-18's, Harriers, AH-1Z's, and more commonly, artillery.

[thatguy96]

I would think what you're describing as "Mini-AWAC" is probably better described with regards to the UH-1N as Forward Air Control or FAC. Thanks for the answer though.

[ArmyJonHall]

Yes, FAC, that was the term I was trying to remember. Had a blank spot for there for a while.

[thatguy96]

Okay, so here's a new question, the US Navy used the HH-1K/UH-1L starting around 1970. Were these aircraft replaced by UH-1Ns in USN service or were they simply withdrawn and only the USMC operated the UH-1N? When did the HH-1K/UH-1L get replaced/withdrawn from service?