Michigan is now a full-auto state!

[nognig]

From Eric Larson, on subguns.com:

"Michigan Attorney General Cox issued Opinion No. 7183, dated December 27, 2005, which supercedes former Michigan Attorney General Frank Kelly's Opinion No. 5210, dated August 10, 1977.

Boiled down, it means that Michigan residents are legally entitled to lawfully possess NFA firearms and devices, as long as they are legally registered with ATF and ATF approves the transfer application (i.e., that the Michigan resident has no convictions that would prohibit possessing a firearm, and gets his/her paperwork signed by a CLEO or done through a corporation). Anybody who wants it should be able to obtain a copy of the foregoing Opinion by contacting the Michigan Attorney General's office.

Opinion No. 7183 (http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/datafiles/2000s/op10259.htm) clarifies that an approved application to transfer an NFA firearm or device meets the requirement under Michigan law as a "license" required to lawfully possess a machine gun. If you get the Opinion, and read it, it will answer all of your legal questions. I understand some folks are in the process of sending the Opinion to ATF to get it implemented in the National Firearms Act Branch so applications by Michigan residents will be approved. This covers all NFA firearms and devices, in addition to those classified as curios or relics."


Before the above was published, you could only own Curio and Relic machine guns in Michigan (guns of historic value). You couldn't own supressors or short-barrelled rifles. Now you can own any of them (as long as you go through a federal background check)!

NN

[Greek soldier]

Oh no! Now there's going to be a super competition: Oklahoma VS Michigan Full Auto Show Contest :) :) :)

[towelie]

I wonder if texas is full-auto legal?!

[nognig]

I wonder if texas is full-auto legal?!

Yup!



State TX
Machine Guns Y
Sound Suppressor Y
Short Rifle Y
Short Shotgun Y
AOW Y
Large Bore Y
DD Explosive Y
DD Y


State by State Chart of NFA Restrictions (http://www.mp5.net/info/sbsconr.htm)

NN

[Greek soldier]

See this full machine gun show. Shows how to waste WWII ammunition!
(especially Greek 8mm!!).

Now Michigan can experience this too...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3589957073685259267&q=Greek

[Durandal]

Welcome, Michigan, back to the real United States of America...

Ohio and Kentucky both allow NFA so long as you have approval from local LE, a judge, or DA.

[towelie]

Yup!



State by State Chart of NFA Restrictions (http://www.mp5.net/info/sbsconr.htm)

NN

ahhh good old texas

[nognig]

Welcome, Michigan, back to the real United States of America...

Ohio and Kentucky both allow NFA so long as you have approval from local LE, a judge, or DA.

Yeah, that's a federal requirement. Have to get permission from the Chief Law Enforement Officer (Sherrif, etc) or someone at a similar level. That is usually the sticking point in getting a NFA weapon, especially if you live in an anit-gun area.

If you buy the weapon as a corportion, however, you don't need the permission!

NN

[Durandal]

Yeah, that's a federal requirement. Have to get permission from the Chief Law Enforement Officer (Sherrif, etc) or someone at a similar level. That is usually the sticking point in getting a NFA weapon, especially if you live in an anit-gun area.

If you buy the weapon as a corportion, however, you don't need the permission!

NN

Actually, it depends on what State you live in.

The nice thing about going the corporate route is that the corporation holds ownership of the weapon, not an individual, so if your children or friend inherit the weapons there is no transfer needed so long as they are an officer of the corporation.

[Belrick]

Nice, the next 'columbine' could be carried out (does anyone here think there wont be another?) with a higher ROF in this state.

[Laworkerbee]

Nice, the next 'columbine' could be carried out (does anyone here think there wont be another?) with a higher ROF in this state.

It's highly doubtfull any of these weapons would generate a Columbine type event Belrick, Owners of these types of arms are required to have serious gun cases/safes and decent security for thier firearms. Not the type our used by most people that might give someone access to someone with a bolt cutter.

There are age requirments as well.

[perdurabo]

so you need only normal background check up and sheriff permission? no special licenses??

[nognig]

so you need only normal background check up and sheriff permission? no special licenses??

No, it's not a "normal" background check. To get a automatic weapon you get fingerprinted and a FBI background check is done, much more complete than a simple NICS check you do to buy a firearm.

Note, you have to go through this each time you buy an NFA item. The wait to get a Form 4 approved (you need this to take the gun home) is measured in months.

This will have no impact on criminals since the legally owned weapons are much more expensive than illegal ones (try $25,000 for a Thompson sub machine gun).

NN

[nognig]

Actually, it depends on what State you live in.

The nice thing about going the corporate route is that the corporation holds ownership of the weapon, not an individual, so if your children or friend inherit the weapons there is no transfer needed so long as they are an officer of the corporation.

The need to get the police to sign off is a Federal requirement. However, you are right, different states may require additional paperwork.

Good point about going the corporate route!

NN

[Durandal]

Nice, the next 'columbine' could be carried out (does anyone here think there wont be another?) with a higher ROF in this state.

An interesting comment coming from someone living in a nation where it is actually EASIER to get machine guns than in the United States. :roll:

I somehow doubt that a child, in high school, is going to be able to purchase a weapon that ranges in price from 2000.00 USD to 705,000 USD, plus a 200.00 tax stamp, plus a federal background check more detailed than anything anyone goes through to purchase a pistol, AND takes as long as nine months....AND is subject to age laws...21 or older.

But yeah, you COULD worry about that...

rofl

[jd123]

still need sheriff to sign off, not all of them will sign off, still have to go thourgh corporation, trust route...

[Belrick]

It's highly doubtfull any of these weapons would generate a Columbine type event Belrick, Owners of these types of arms are required to have serious gun cases/safes and decent security for thier firearms. Not the type our used by most people that might give someone access to someone with a bolt cutter.

There are age requirments as well.

Yeah but whos going to bet money that these outstanding citizens of today cant turn into tommorows monsters through tragadies in life etc? What method is there that predicts a future psychopath?

[Geezah]

Nice, the next 'columbine' could be carried out (does anyone here think there wont be another?) with a higher ROF in this state.

An interesting comment coming from someone living in a nation where it is actually EASIER to get machine guns than in the United States. :roll:

I somehow doubt that a child, in high school, is going to be able to purchase a weapon that ranges in price from 2000.00 USD to 705,000 USD, plus a 200.00 tax stamp, plus a federal background check more detailed than anything anyone goes through to purchase a pistol, AND takes as long as nine months....AND is subject to age laws...21 or older.

But yeah, you COULD worry about that...

rofl

The funny thing about Belrick's post is, I don't think there has ever been a recorded case, like ever of a Class III firearm being used to commit a crime.


Belrick, stop being so emotional and start posting facts.

[perdurabo]

Yeah but whos going to bet money that these outstanding citizens of today cant turn into tommorows monsters through tragadies in life etc? What method is there that predicts a future psychopath?
more than few years ago, one student in Wroclaw didn't passed some finals, teacher was real bitch. He took axe from store and went to university. He chopped her head off. Two or three years ago some japanese guy went mad and attacked schoolgirls with knife. Year ago some german dude started to slashing pedestrains with sword....
what is the conclusion? NOTHING will stop psychopath from going mad and killing ppl. Only armed and trained citizens could stop psychopath from killing ppl.

[Greek soldier]

I remember an incident in Germany 3 years ago near Berlin when a boy (Robert sth) grabbed a gun and killed some of his teachers because he got dropped for 3rd time in a row!

[LtVacan]

The National Firearms Act (NFA) was passed in 1934. From then until now, something like 250,000 legal machine guns have been registered in the United States. Exactly one of these weapons has been used in a crime, by a police officer that moonlighted as a hitman. He used a weapon owned by his police department.

[Durandal]

The funny thing about Belrick's post is, I don't think there has ever been a recorded case, like ever of a Class III firearm being used to commit a crime.

They have, but not a legally obtained NFA controlled weapon. Remember, this includes, saw-ed off shotguns, short barrel rifles, and of course automatic weapons. If a guy takes a lower receiver for an AR, drills a couple holes, swaps out triggers/sear and makes it full auto, this is an NFA controlled weapon.

There are plenty of those violations.

But not with one purchased through a Class III dealer with the extensive FBI background check.

I believe the weapon used by the police officer above was an issue weapon...maybe I am wrong.

[Durandal]

I remember an incident in Germany 3 years ago near Berlin when a boy (Robert sth) grabbed a gun and killed some of his teachers because he got dropped for 3rd time in a row!

Completely irrelevant to this discussion. Robert Steinhäuser used a pistol and a shotgun not a silenced, saw-ed off , or fully automatic weapon.

Same with the Columbine nut jobs...

Both are perfect examples of poor parent supervision and have little, if anything, to do with a State controls over weapons already controlled by the National Firearms Act.

[Belrick]

more than few years ago, one student in Wroclaw didn't passed some finals, teacher was real bitch. He took axe from store and went to university. He chopped her head off. Two or three years ago some japanese guy went mad and attacked schoolgirls with knife. Year ago some german dude started to slashing pedestrains with sword....
what is the conclusion? NOTHING will stop psychopath from going mad and killing ppl. Only armed and trained citizens could stop psychopath from killing ppl.

No ones denying that. Just that you among many are denying the fact that an madman or woman with a gun can carry out far more harm than the same person armed with a knitting needle or knife or axe.

At least those last 3 objects have legitimate purposes that aid societies whereas a guns only purpose is to kill.

[Belrick]

AN interesting statistic i found is that by 1995 there were 240,000 registered fully automatic weapons within the US of which 7,700 had been reported as since being stolen.

But by and large your right, the preferred weapon of choice for crime is the pistol and will continue to be the pistol due to the convenience of its size.

[Oddbod]

No ones denying that. Just that you among many are denying the fact that an madman or woman with a gun can carry out far more harm than the same person armed with a knitting needle or knife or axe.

At least those last 3 objects have legitimate purposes that aid societies whereas a guns only purpose is to kill.

So how about the 800,000 - 2,000,000 defensive uses of firearms every year, in the US alone?
Often, the mere knowledge that a potential victim was armed has dissuaded a criminal from going further.
A survey amongst imprisoned criminals in the US shows that they fear armed citizens far more than the Police or the Courts.

If firearms were outlawed, then only outlaws would have firearms & where would that leave the defenceless, law abiding citizens?

[Durandal]

No ones denying that. Just that you among many are denying the fact that an madman or woman with a gun can carry out far more harm than the same person armed with a knitting needle or knife or axe.

At least those last 3 objects have legitimate purposes that aid societies whereas a guns only purpose is to kill.

Silliness.

Absolute silliness. A purpose of a gun is NOT to kill, but to, through certain controls in design and material project a "bullet" down a barrel at a certain velocity and accuracy at a certain range.

Like any tool the choice of use of a firearm is up to the owner.

99.9% of the use of my firearms (and I have a lot) have been to shoot a paper, wood, or steel target. I have killed a couple deer with a shotgun and had to put down a wild dog attacking our horses...all perfectly valid uses where the purpose was not to kill, but to provide food AND to protect.

People bitch about firearms as if they are some horrible killer...

Yet, if you break down the math...32K total deaths in the U.S. roughly, 2 thousand are from accidents and 16 thousand are from suicides. The last, about 14 thousand, are caused deliberately...

14 thousand seems like a lot, but lets be honest, numerically speaking, in a nation with a population of 290 MILLION, there are far more dangerous things out there to spend time and money on...LOTS of things...LOTS AND LOTS.

I have never understood the fear or the logic behind the attack on something guaranteed by the Constitution.

[Geezah]

Silliness.

Absolute silliness. A purpose of a gun is NOT to kill, but to, through certain controls in design and material project a "bullet" down a barrel at a certain velocity and accuracy at a certain range.

Like any tool the choice of use of a firearm is up to the owner.

99.9% of the use of my firearms (and I have a lot) have been to shoot a paper, wood, or steel target. I have killed a couple deer with a shotgun and had to put down a wild dog attacking our horses...all perfectly valid uses where the purpose was not to kill, but to provide food AND to protect.

People bitch about firearms as if they are some horrible killer...

Yet, if you break down the math...32K total deaths in the U.S. roughly, 2 thousand are from accidents and 16 thousand are from suicides. The last, about 14 thousand, are caused deliberately...

14 thousand seems like a lot, but lets be honest, numerically speaking, in a nation with a population of 290 MILLION, there are far more dangerous things out there to spend time and money on...LOTS of things...LOTS AND LOTS.

I have never understood the fear or the logic behind the attack on something guaranteed by the Constitution.

Don't expect any type of response to your logic, Belrick's only arguement is an emotional one, and he will never see the light.