Chechnya First War Photos (rare)

[RomanS]

Here are some photos I scanned

First Chechen War 1994-1996

Druged up Chechen and a Ukranian Merc
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/6673Untitled-32.jpg

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/6673Untitled-30.jpg

Chechen fighter tries to put out a fire on a Russian soldier, so he can scavange some ammo off of him. Ambushed Sverdlovskii OMON 1995.
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/6673Untitled-27.jpg

Funeral of Sverdlov OMON Colonel.
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/6673Untitled-28.jpg

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/6673Untitled-26.jpg

Samashki - fighter of Perm SOBR checks the locals for bruises on his shoulder. (if you carry a rifle and shoot, you will have bruises on it.
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/6673Untitled-23.jpg

Zavodskoi District of Grozny.
The writing as following

WELCOME TO HELL

Chechies are Assholes
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/6673Untitled-22.jpg


Spetsnaz operator of V V fires a VOG
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/6673Untitled-21.jpg


SOBR operators take cover at Starie Promisli, Grozny 1994
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/6673Untitled-8.jpg

SOBR Ural advances through Grozny 1994
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/6673Untitled-7.jpg


Starie road. Dead civilian or fighter rests in peace on the side
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/6673Untitled-6.jpg

Combat of OMON
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/6673Untitled-4.jpg

SOBR Ural, storms a house where sniper took out 2 of their members 1994 New Years eve
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/6673Untitled-3.jpg

Ambushed
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/6673Untitled-1.jpg

Copy from our archive. Letter was adressed to Yeltsin's office.
Chechens claim to keep all the weapons left in the Republic to themselves after the collapse of USSR.
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/6673dok.jpg

Vityaz fighters pose
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/6673Andrei.jpg

[Seoulstriker]

these pictures make me so sad. :( what a troubled place south eastern europe and southwestern russia. :(



thanks for the excellent photos.

(why was the chechen drugged?)

[Jack Mehoff]

thanks for the excellent photos.

(why was the chechen drugged?)

When you are high, you are fearless.

[George W. Bush]

I guess they like to get high. Lots of morphine/hash/etc everyhwere.

[RomanS]

They would smoke Hash all the time.
Mix it with tobacco, and go into fight.

[George W. Bush]

Wow, that's stupid lol.. All the times I've been buzzed to totally stoned I wouldn't be able to hit the broad side of a barn.

[RomanS]

They also would mix opium with other drugs before engaging our troops.

If they get shot, they won't feel as much pain.

Lots of executions of Russian soldiers were commited by drugged up Arabs.

[Kingpin]

They use drugs also because Koran prohibit consuming alcohol. :)

[16 OBr SpN]

Chechens have always loved drugs. Even long before the war.
Many of them were using hard drugs like heroin. Therefore we only had to keep them for 2 days in prison, and they would tell us everything we needed to know.

Promedol was available, but was used by them in order to get high, rather than to kill the pain. First thing they would look for on dead bodies (whether ours our theirs), was always promedol.

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

[wreck]

Quite amazing material, thanks for posting them.

[Marmot1]

But AFAIK drugs are not only chechen problem... I'v read a book of a mercenary guy who was a sniper on chechen side and he mentioned some atack done by russians in open field!!! He decided to take out officer first and he had to shot him 3 times before this guy stoped advancing... after first shoot he was hit in shoulder and did not reacted at all , after third shoot or so he colapsed only becuse his leg was hit and bone broken...

Great Photos, but next time put links instead of pics to GRAPHIC material, I'm not sensitive but some ppl may, and it is also against forum rules....

[Kingpin]

But AFAIK drugs are not only chechen problem... I'v read a book of a mercenary guy who was a sniper on chechen side and he mentioned some atack done by russians in open field!!! He decided to take out officer first and he had to shot him 3 times before this guy stoped advancing... after first shoot he was hit in shoulder and did not reacted at all , after third shoot or so he colapsed only becuse his leg was hit and bone broken...

Well, it can be due to many reasons. Not only drugs.

[SeanAshi]

Grozny looks like Berlin, 1945

[Marmot1]

But AFAIK drugs are not only chechen problem... I'v read a book of a mercenary guy who was a sniper on chechen side and he mentioned some atack done by russians in open field!!! He decided to take out officer first and he had to shot him 3 times before this guy stoped advancing... after first shoot he was hit in shoulder and did not reacted at all , after third shoot or so he colapsed only becuse his leg was hit and bone broken...

Well, it can be due to many reasons. Not only drugs.

Come on if you advance in open field without taking cover and you don't react after beeing hit how you want to explain it...

[Kingpin]

Come on if you advance in open field without taking cover and you don't react after beeing hit how you want to explain it...

Let's ask 16 OBr SpN. He have more experience how its looks like.

[Javehn]

Good hashish this guy had in first picture . Very hard to tell he is stoned ...

I know in our place they liked to consume some weed . A guy that stand 2 metter infront of tank and 8 soldiers , and firing his AK in the middle of the road is defenetly smoke some good quallity weedso . Or they are suicidal .

[Uninen]

Thanks for the pics, btw.. if they get stoned.. i dont think that Alluha likes it? So that much for the paradise.. ;)

[16 OBr SpN]

But AFAIK drugs are not only chechen problem... I'v read a book of a mercenary guy who was a sniper on chechen side and he mentioned some atack done by russians in open field!!! He decided to take out officer first and he had to shot him 3 times before this guy stoped advancing... after first shoot he was hit in shoulder and did not reacted at all , after third shoot or so he colapsed only becuse his leg was hit and bone broken...

Great Photos, but next time put links instead of pics to GRAPHIC material, I'm not sensitive but some ppl may, and it is also against forum rules....

I tend to really question that "author".
How the hell does our guy run in the open field (!) when there are snipers operating?? It's against all our rules and tactics!!
What did others do? Did they all keep on running after 3 (!) shots??
How did that sniper operate, alone or within a certain group?


Even if it did happen (although I doubt it)... Have you ever heard of pain shock? Again, you make ASSUMPTIONS based on what that "author" saw. You assumed that our guy made drugs strictly based on that fact?

What's the name of book anyway?

[Catch22]

Great Pics as always Permskii - thanks :D

As for the use of drugs - I'd say alcohol and accidents that happen because of it are more of a problem in polish army, and I guess in VSR it's similiar situation :roll:

[tony6]

Marmot:
Would You please chill out a little bit?
Things are becoming little nervous here :)

[Kicius]

16 ONr SpN wrote:


What's the name of book anyway?

AFAIK there are two books of this author:

1. "Chechen spetsnaz - tactics of the special forces"
2. "Empire on the knees"

And his name is Mirosław Kuleba.
And both of this books are full of BS.
Unfortunately Mr. Kuleba is only one author whose books about Chechnya you can buy in Poland.
Waste of time and money.

[16 OBr SpN]

16 ONr SpN wrote:


What's the name of book anyway?

AFAIK there are two books of this author:

1. "Chechen spetsnaz - tactics of the special forces"
2. "Empire on the knees"

And his name is Mirosław Kuleba.
And both of this books are full of BS.
Unfortunately Mr. Kuleba is only one author whose books about Chechnya you can buy in Poland.
Waste of time and money.

Thanks, Kicius!

From your words, now I'm even more skeptical about that guy. Did he openly admit that he was a mercenary?
Or was he someone a-la Tom Clancy? :lol:

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

[tony6]

I haven't read that but I've seen those books in bookshop.

[tony6]

Kicius: And wasn't there book called simply "Sniper" by some guy who fought as a mercenary in Czechnya?
I don't remeber his name...Wladyslaw something (I believe).
I remeber that there were pretty hardcore photos in it (I haven't read that-just went through it in the bookshop).

[Chmiel]

Kicius: And wasn't there book called simply "Sniper" by some guy who fought as a mercenary in Czechnya?
I don't remeber his name...Wladyslaw something (I believe).
I remeber that there were pretty hardcore photos in it (I haven't read that-just went through it in the bookshop).

Wladyslaw Wilk aka Mehmed Borz.
IMO this guy is a fictional person... but I must admit that I've seen pics of chechen fighters with polish flags on their arm patches and Poland (Lechistan) writen in arabic ...mercs?

[Kicius]

Kicius: And wasn't there book called simply "Sniper" by some guy who fought as a mercenary in Czechnya?
I don't remeber his name...Wladyslaw something (I believe).


Władysław Wilk - hmm, maybe that is the problem.
Mr. Kuleba's books includes stories told by him.

It means that there are three books about Chechnya. I haven't read "Sniper" so i just forgot about it. Sorry.

"Chechen Spetsnaz" - have some nice fotos too. Most of them - chechen fighters and commanders.

[Javehn]

I also heard about many Polish percenaries . Specialy about Polish women , that used to be sportsmen in , how to say it , when you go on slides and then you shoot targets . They became a mercenary sniper women .

[Chmiel]

and Photo from first war
http://czeczenia.weblab.pl/640/cz12km.jpg

look at "BANZAI" wroten on the hatch :D

[Kingpin]

More from your site:

http://czeczenia.weblab.pl/800/cz13km.jpg

http://czeczenia.weblab.pl/800/cz5km.jpg


Winter camo?

http://czeczenia.weblab.pl/800/cz16km.jpg


This was posted here some time ago

http://czeczenia.weblab.pl/800/cz24km.jpg


Err... Freedom fighters...

http://czeczenia.weblab.pl/800/cz34km.jpg


???

http://czeczenia.weblab.pl/800/cz31km.jpg


Mercs?

http://czeczenia.weblab.pl/800/cz26km.jpg


This one good illustration how chechens prefer to solve disagreements :)

http://czeczenia.weblab.pl/800/cz6km.jpg


Russians

[Kingpin]

And this is supporting hand of Poland to Chechen terrorists

http://www.ipolska.pl/__extra/czeczenia.gif

[Javehn]

I couldn't not notice the boots ... That's just wrong .

http://czeczenia.weblab.pl/800/cz16km.jpg

[Kingpin]

Собачья работа у поляков :)
http://www.pah.ngo.pl/18496.html


Уборка туалетов. С апреля 2002 г. ПГА покрывает издержки содержания ассенизационной машины, очищающей туалеты в медицинских учреждениях построеные ПГА, а также места в публичном и частном секторах, указаные Управлением Районов г. Грозного

[tony6]

Note that is Polish Humanitarian Action site.
As for Polish mercenaries in first Czechen war-I think their motivation was to help people who fight for their freedom by fighting with them against Russians (kind of Polish tradition:).
They didn't give a **** about religion/dzihad/muslim stuff.
We're all catholics in Poland.

[tony6]

Also-I don't think You can even call them "mercenaries" cause I don't think they were paid for that-probably were doing it "for the cause" (we are considered to be idealists:)

[Kingpin]

Well, Chechens much more practical.

1. They always leave bodies of mercs/volunteers (any non chechen to be short) on battlefield while always take their fallen.
2. When merc unit (ok, volunteer unit) said that they don't fight anymore and going to leave base camp and go to Georgia Chechens killed them... Well just in case they will be captured by Russians... This last case have only few evidences and 16 OBr SpN, if you something know about this case please can you enlighten us please.

[hist2004]

Article:

If the West isn't exactly repeating its Kosovo blunder in Chechnya, it's only because Russia has a nuclear arsenal.
So, instead of bombing Moscow as we blitzed Belgrade, we're standing on the sidelines chanting that the Kremlin is conducting a genocidal war.
The poor Chechens only want to be free — free to pursue their national pastime of kidnapping for ransom, run terrorist training camps, blow up Moscow apartment buildings and spread Islamic revolution to neighboring states.
Here's the Chechen War, round II, in context.
In June, NATO turned Kosovo over to our narco-terrorist allies in the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA). Several weeks later, fighting erupted in the Russian republic of Dagestan. Coincidence?
Muslim guerrillas from Chechnya invaded with the announced intention of establishing an Islamic state. The Dagestanis — Muslims who would rather not have the equivalent of Afghanistan's Taliban regime forced on them — resisted. The Chechens destroyed villages, murdered men in front of their families and displaced more than 32,000.
Russia sent in the troops to meet the menace. In retaliation, a series of explosions rocked Moscow and other Russian cities in September, killing more than 300 people. How would America react if terrorists from Mexico started blowing up apartment buildings in Los Angeles?
At this point, the government of Prime Minister Vladimir Putin decided enough was enough and took the war to its source.
Moscow initially lost control of Chechnya in 1996, when Islamic separatists fought it to a draw. Thereafter, what passed for a government in Grozny has proved incapable of keeping order.
In the past three years, militant bands have taken more than 1,000 hostages. Russians and foreigners are seized and tortured. (A 13-year-old Russian girl had two fingers cut off.). Videotapes of the ordeals are sent to relatives with ransom demands. The money raised finances Holy War throughout the Caucasus.
International Islam advances on many fronts — Bosnia, Kosovo, Chechnya, Dagestan, the Kashmir and the West Bank. These campaigns are connected and coordinated.
Osama bin Laden, the Saudi architect of embassy explosions who also supported the KLA, has ties to Chechnya via Khattab, the Jordanian-born co-commander of the Dagestan incursion.
Yossef Bodansky, director of the Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare for the U.S. House of Representatives and author of "Bin Laden: The Man Who Declared War on America," notes that Khattab has been a bin Laden protege since 1987.
In 1994, the Saudi sent Khattab to Tajikistan to aid Islamic revolution there, then transferred him to Chechnya in 1995.
Bodansky says forensic tests show the explosive devices in the Moscow bombings are similar to those used to blow up U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania last year.
While we fretted about the terrorist mastermind attacking America on New Year's, the Clinton administration continued to slam Russia for using excessive force against bin Laden's Chechen allies.
National Security Advisor Sandy Berger urged Moscow to "deal with it (terrorism) within the constitutional framework." How? By inviting the terrorists to a parliamentary debate? Resolved: That bombings and torture aren't nice.
Russian forces in Chechnya are waging a brutal war against brutal people. It's true, there have been incidents of indiscriminate shelling and looting.
What the '60s antiwar activists who run the Clinton White House fail to understand is that there will always be moral lapses in a counterinsurgency effort. (There were in Vietnam.) But, just as America fought for civilization in Southeast Asia, Russia is doing the West's work in the Caucasus.
Our miscalculation in Chechnya is consistent with a foreign policy that sees the Kosovo Liberation Army as heroes, the Serbs as a threat to European stability, China as a "a strategic ally" and Israel as the party which must sacrifice its security as the price of Middle East peace.
If providing moral support for Islamic revolution in the Caucasus weren't enough, by condemning Moscow's Chechen offensive, we are signaling Russia that, even after the Cold War, we are still its enemy and driving it into the arms of Beijing. Dumb and dumber.

Regards & Thanks,
Hist2004

[Dalleer]

http://czeczenia.weblab.pl/800/cz13km.jpg

I really like this particular picture, what with the man wearing em' sunglasses and all...

[Catch22]

Just to clear things out - those who fight as mercenaries are legally prosecuted by polish courts. I know some guys from "Free Chechnya" organisation here in Poland and I must say they are two kinds of them: one being kids fooled by "freedom fight" slogans, and the other cynical individuals looking for measurable profits - I am ashamed of both. I dont have a clear opinion how Chechenya case should be solved, but creating some freedom fighting myths and heroes, while using terrorist methods and basing on fund raised from clearly criminal activities (hostages, drugs) always makes me oppose :| .

[tony6]

That's Your opinion, man.
I have my own.
And speaking about two kinds of people "one being kids fooled by "freedom fight" slogans, and the other cynical individuals looking for measurable profits" sounds rather bull**** to me. Another one black-and-white-world activist?
Sorry but things are not so simply, buddy. I know few people from Kaukaz and they are not either of Your "two groups".
But I agree that according to Polsih law these guys were mercenaries.

[Catch22]

Hmmm...I can only speak about the ones I've met. I'm not dening there are others - motivated by other - more noble, idealistic or humane causes. But one thing is sending humanitarian aid for Chechs and other is being a merc paid with dirty money... That was my point :roll:

Anoter one all-grey-world-activist? ;)

[jamesp]

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/6673Untitled-32.jpg




Hahahhahahaha, look at this guy. What a ****ing loser.

Anyways, the Zulus used to actually take drugs before going into battle. It made them fearless, and to see red.

I heard some quotes from a zulu warrior who fought at Isandlwana, he wrote that the drugs made them fearless etc etc.

[tony6]

Hmmm...I can only speak about the ones I've met. I'm not dening there are others - motivated by other - more noble, idealistic or humane causes. But one thing is sending humanitarian aid for Chechs and other is being a merc paid with dirty money... That was my point
So it was a good point.


Anoter one all-grey-world-activist?
Let's say "coloured" :)

[Sergei]

Also-I don't think You can even call them "mercenaries" cause I don't think they were paid for that-probably were doing it "for the cause" (we are considered to be idealists:)

Idealists :lol: were paid quite enough to swallow their pride and shut up about the real cause.
Like shall I bring the pricelist of the atrocity in chechnya and how much does a usual merc earns in Chechnya depending on his performance?
Killing a russian soldier - 300 $
Killing a russian officer - 700$
Taking out a BMP - 1000$...

That's just the start of the list, but they don't include the price for the number of people decapitated. :(

"Christians just don't go around the village cutting off heads and ****.." "Platoon" - the movie about Vietnam war.

The good news is two weeks ago they showed on TV how spetsnaz has apprehended another bunch of Allah warriors totalling 17 pieces of ****, including one german citizen :roll: , two from Turkey, and one from Marocco. No Poles this time. They all had Georgian visas in their passports.
Looks like Chechnya is drawing all kinds of worldwide scum like a magnet.

[Herrmannek]

I think that there is no any polish "idealist" in Chechenya now. Mercenaries or Mobsters improving their combat skills maybe...polish idealist other than humanitarian aiders...NO

[tony6]

Idealists were paid quite enough to swallow their pride and shut up about the real cause.
I was talkin about first Chechen war-I haven't seen any pictures prooving Polish involvment right now in Chechnya. I guess this war and things that happen there are not so obvious any more (those bomb attack in Moscow, Dubrovka, etc.) so "idealists" can have a doubts about it.


"Christians just don't go around the village cutting off heads and ****.."
Christians were burning cities and murdering people for ages my friend.
It's not very appropriate aphorism :)
I said that we were catholics because here in Poland we actually haven't got any religious wars ever. In fact muslims were living in our country for ages (Tatars). There was no bigger problems with that minority and stuff like dzihad wars and so on are completely unknown for us.

[Sergei]

I said that we were catholics because here in Poland we actually haven't got any religious wars ever.
Hehe, :D I wouldn't generalise like that. Every nation had its share of religious wars in the past. So did Poland.



In fact muslims were living in our country for ages (Tatars). There was no bigger problems with that minority and stuff like dzihad wars and so on are completely unknown for us.

That's very good to hear and consider yourself lucky. I bet the muslim minority never exceedes the 10% of total population in any given area in Poland, right? Because whenever muslims become a majority in the area, the **** starts to hit the fan. Remember Kosovo, Chechnya.
Now, in Ukraine we have Crimean peninsula, where just 0.9% of population were Tatars before the breakup of Soviet Union. Now they are some 12% minority and growing, and some of them are starting to stir the ****, although Tatars are considered moderate muslims and don't fall for vahabi piece of crap.
Unless you lived next to at least 5 chechens you don't know what it is like. I had to accompany my sister to the shop or any other place otherwise she would get that really annoying chechen "companion" who would comment on her woman assets for the whole street to hear and then try to go free with his hands. Once I had to fight some dude for him to get lost from my sister. The next day he brought some 15 thugs along to make me pay. Fortunately my friends helped me and probably saved my life and that was back in good old 1990 when everything was still quiet.

You are really lucky that you don't live next to the chechens, cause if you did, you would know what I am talking about.

[Sirpad]

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/6673Andrei.jpg
RPG, tandem HEAT warhead. maybe PG-7V (i'm not sure about the marking).


http://czeczenia.weblab.pl/800/cz24km.jpg
weird - i saw a similar elder cheering in the BBC documentary "betrayed". it's an excellent movie, about a group of russian mothers trying to find their POW sons in grozny.

[anonymous individual]

... I am speechless by the amazing pictures. woot

[Dmitri]

I completely agree about the statement that it is pretty hard to deal with poeple of muslim background. There are plenty of them now in Moscow, and when I was there, there were always troubles with them. They always hang around in pretty large groups, and because of that they feel they can do anything. They would come up to people when we were playing soccer and just talk **** out of nothing!!! Then we played against them, and every time I would dribble through one he would start cursing and trying to hit my legs, or if I hit them accidently, they would start threatening about beating folks up... :cantbeli: Too bad my friends weren't with me at that time, otherwise they would STFU.... its just impossible to deal with them!! :fork:

[Loco]

Congratulations for your photos, they´re very interesting and some of them really beauty and genuines.


They would smoke Hash all the time.
Mix it with tobacco, and go into fight.
Regarding the drugged chechen, I think is very risky, for saying the less, to explain why is he drugged or what drugs he took. Perhaps he didn´t take drugs for being more brave but for being relaxed and forgetting things, who knows...And, certainly, Hash and other cannabis drugs don´t give you agressiveness but the contrary thing, you feel very quiet and "in peace with the world". If you want more excitation and sharpening your killer instinct, anphetaminas and/or alcohol specially are the cheapest resource of losing the fear, and I think russians know a lot about vodka. My grandfather, once a teen soldier in the war, and others of their generation talked to me about lot of free brandy given to them before and assault with bayonet.

[Uninen]

RPG, tandem HEAT warhead. maybe PG-7V (i'm not sure about the marking).

Yeah, it is and i belive that PG-7V is the correct name.. anyhow i wonder.. so powerful warhead.. maybe their in combat with some Chechen armor? As Chechens did have plenty tanks in that first war..

[RomanS]

ПГ-7ВР «Резюме»

is not HEAT !

It has a sabot style rod for penetrating armour.

Chechens used their tanks very briefly in the first war. I am proud to say that our guys destroyed all of their armor in less than 8 days.

Major fights took place at Minutka and Zavodksoi district. The Dudaev batalion of T72s made a mistake, by using tanks in the same tactic of guirella. They would shoot and run. Not a good Idea with a TANK!!!

Therefore 503rd MSP (19th div) regiment with T-80s and T72s used the Chechen tankers for practice shooting.

A friend of mine was a T80 comander from that regiment. He said Chechens are great fighters on feet, shooting out of bushes and running and all. But using tanks, they embarassed themselves.

The only challenge with armor we faced was the Bamut regiment of Dudaev.
They had BMPs and MTLBs left to them (see the document in the photos). They would trick them out by puting ZU23s on them, and use it against our light armor.

They were more active with light armor, so it made it dificult for our tankers to track them. Plus that created a huge problem for us.
Tankers would engage Chechen light armour, and find themselves being hit with RPGs and PTURs from other corners.

Thats what the spooks wanted, to draw the tanks in. Basically make them chase the BMPs, to a place where PTUR sniper would take them out with Konkurs.

After we lost a goot portion of our tanks, we only used Interior Units to recon the area, and stay there till the tanks arrive.

Bamut area towards the 1996 was a mess.

[Javehn]

Chechen inside the tanks , hahahaha
Stoned Chechen inside the tanks , hahahahahaha

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/6673Untitled-32.jpg

Now I've seen a few people stoned before, that dudes higher then a bird off opium (take a look at his eyes). No weed can do that, he looks like hes blacking out.

Believe it or not, getting high before battle has been practiced for as long as man can remeber. There was an South African tribe that were called the "hashish warriors" because they would get so high, they'd lose it in battle. These guys were feared alot by there enemies.

[Herrmannek]

Or maybe he just makes stupid/funny face to his firends..

[Javehn]

"Mustafa , pass me the bang .... "
"Oh , Rahib , i am so stoned , this is a good ****"
"Arbi , you dropped the head , you pot face !! "

[mustamato]

Believe it or not, getting high before battle has been practiced for as long as man can remeber. There was an South African tribe that were called the "hashish warriors" because they would get so high, they'd lose it in battle. These guys were feared alot by there enemies.

Yeah, and also the first farmers, atleast here in Europe only produced "luxury
products", in the hunting economies. Archaeological evidence of booze and also
narcotica exist since the stone age. The need for bread and such became big first
during the later parts of the stone age (neotlithic period) because of growing
population and and the lack of resources in the area (animals to hunt etc).

And of course primitive people have always known a lot of medicine, what leafs to
mix and boil to get narcotica etc. But there is no archaeological evidence of that
(obviously since organic materials have a tendency to dissapear), so it´s only
speculation.

[Dennis G]

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/6673Untitled-32.jpg




Hahahhahahaha, look at this guy. What a f*** loser.

Anyways, the Zulus used to actually take drugs before going into battle. It made them fearless, and to see red.

I heard some quotes from a zulu warrior who fought at Isandlwana, he wrote that the drugs made them fearless etc etc.

Same thing with the Bazerkes(spelling :oops: )

[khukuri]

They use drugs also because Koran prohibit consuming alcohol. :)

drugs are as prohibited as alcohol

[LeMat]

But AFAIK drugs are not only chechen problem... I'v read a book of a mercenary guy who was a sniper on chechen side and he mentioned some atack done by russians in open field!!! He decided to take out officer first and he had to shot him 3 times before this guy stoped advancing... after first shoot he was hit in shoulder and did not reacted at all , after third shoot or so he colapsed only becuse his leg was hit and bone broken...


Vodka not drugs. In one of our military magazines there was an article about it. Not drugs but vodka.
But sniper who hit in shoulder and leg isn`t a good sniper. Real sniper will kill by 1 shot - not 3 shots in legs ;)

[Marmot1]

OK

1. As for the books about chechenya in poland there are more than tree..

Czeczenia 94-95 / Zygmunt Czarnotta, Zbigniew Moszumański.
Czeczenia dziewięćdziesiąt cztery-dziewięćdziesiąt pięć
Czeczenia - miecz Proroka
Czeczenia : rys prawdziwy / Piotr Grochmalski.
Czeczeński specnaz : taktyka działań specjalnych / Mirosław Kuleba.

and mentioned
Sniper
Empire on knee.

2. One of them is a photo album of 1 chechen war, in one of them but I don't remember which there are photos of poles fighting on chechen side and also photo of armpatch "POLAND" in arabic.


3. AFAIK there were 3 polish citizens fighting on chechen side.

4. Władyslaw Wilk is a nickname since serving in foreign army is illegal in Poland he published his book under nickname...

And about this oficer I need to get this book and then I can tranlate this captionand post it, but unfortunatelly I'm leaving for couple of days so maybe next week.

[RomanS]

OK

1. As for the books about chechenya in poland there are more than tree..

Czeczenia 94-95 / Zygmunt Czarnotta, Zbigniew Moszumański.
Czeczenia dziewięćdziesiąt cztery-dziewięćdziesiąt pięć
Czeczenia - miecz Proroka
Czeczenia : rys prawdziwy / Piotr Grochmalski.
Czeczeński specnaz : taktyka działań specjalnych / Mirosław Kuleba.

and mentioned
Sniper
Empire on knee.

2. One of them is a photo album of 1 chechen war, in one of them but I don't remember which there are photos of poles fighting on chechen side and also photo of armpatch "POLAND" in arabic.


3. AFAIK there were 3 polish citizens fighting on chechen side.

4. Władyslaw Wilk is a nickname since serving in foreign army is illegal in Poland he published his book under nickname...

And about this oficer I need to get this book and then I can tranlate this captionand post it, but unfortunatelly I'm leaving for couple of days so maybe next week.

3 polish fighting on Chechen side ahahahahahahhahaha

what happened to those fags? Did they return home safely?

[Marmot1]

Grozny before bombardment
http://wiem.onet.pl/wiem/bmp/121577-7869.jpg
And after...
http://wiem.onet.pl/wiem/bmp/121715-8005.jpg

[Marmot1]

OK

1. As for the books about chechenya in poland there are more than tree..

Czeczenia 94-95 / Zygmunt Czarnotta, Zbigniew Moszumański.
Czeczenia dziewięćdziesiąt cztery-dziewięćdziesiąt pięć
Czeczenia - miecz Proroka
Czeczenia : rys prawdziwy / Piotr Grochmalski.
Czeczeński specnaz : taktyka działań specjalnych / Mirosław Kuleba.

and mentioned
Sniper
Empire on knee.

2. One of them is a photo album of 1 chechen war, in one of them but I don't remember which there are photos of poles fighting on chechen side and also photo of armpatch "POLAND" in arabic.


3. AFAIK there were 3 polish citizens fighting on chechen side.

4. Władyslaw Wilk is a nickname since serving in foreign army is illegal in Poland he published his book under nickname...

And about this oficer I need to get this book and then I can tranlate this captionand post it, but unfortunatelly I'm leaving for couple of days so maybe next week.

3 polish fighting on Chechen side ahahahahahahhahaha

what happened to those fags? Did they return home safely?

AFAIK yes.

And have you ever heard about polish guy kiled in chechenya??? Becouse I don't.

[RomanS]

I dont see the differences , just the shadow placement. Because of the sun

[RomanS]

thats beacause I've never heared about a polish being there in the first place.

Chechens don't eat pork sausages!

[RomanS]

Here marmot

This is the Dudaev presidental palace.

Lots of Chechens said, that Russians won't get there!

yeah, you have to disagree a lot.

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/6673Untitled-y1.jpg

["sniper" tom]

:( really, these pictures make you think about what you russian soldiers are going trough,or went trough !
but, really great pics PermskiiOMON !!!
thanks allot !!

[RomanS]

Sniper Tom

Thank you

Our guys made it through. We lost brothers, fathers, sons, and friends - but we defeated the Dudaev's rule.

Through blood, sweat and dirt my brothers destroyed the chechen scum, and sent the arabs to their ****in god.

Look at Mashadov now. He is hiding like a dog, like a coward, like Sadam was hiding till Americans owned him.

What happened with bravery? Organizig terrorist atacks from some stinky forest near Mesker-Urt, that sounds like a victory for us.
CHICKEN ****

LONG LIVE RUSSIA!

[khukuri]

OK

1. As for the books about chechenya in poland there are more than tree..

Czeczenia 94-95 / Zygmunt Czarnotta, Zbigniew Moszumański.
Czeczenia dziewięćdziesiąt cztery-dziewięćdziesiąt pięć
Czeczenia - miecz Proroka
Czeczenia : rys prawdziwy / Piotr Grochmalski.
Czeczeński specnaz : taktyka działań specjalnych / Mirosław Kuleba.

and mentioned
Sniper
Empire on knee.

2. One of them is a photo album of 1 chechen war, in one of them but I don't remember which there are photos of poles fighting on chechen side and also photo of armpatch "POLAND" in arabic.


3. AFAIK there were 3 polish citizens fighting on chechen side.

4. Władyslaw Wilk is a nickname since serving in foreign army is illegal in Poland he published his book under nickname...

And about this oficer I need to get this book and then I can tranlate this captionand post it, but unfortunatelly I'm leaving for couple of days so maybe next week.


Any of those books exist in english?
regards

[Marmot1]

OK

1. As for the books about chechenya in poland there are more than tree..

Czeczenia 94-95 / Zygmunt Czarnotta, Zbigniew Moszumański.
Czeczenia dziewięćdziesiąt cztery-dziewięćdziesiąt pięć
Czeczenia - miecz Proroka
Czeczenia : rys prawdziwy / Piotr Grochmalski.
Czeczeński specnaz : taktyka działań specjalnych / Mirosław Kuleba.

and mentioned
Sniper
Empire on knee.

2. One of them is a photo album of 1 chechen war, in one of them but I don't remember which there are photos of poles fighting on chechen side and also photo of armpatch "POLAND" in arabic.


3. AFAIK there were 3 polish citizens fighting on chechen side.

4. Władyslaw Wilk is a nickname since serving in foreign army is illegal in Poland he published his book under nickname...

And about this oficer I need to get this book and then I can tranlate this captionand post it, but unfortunatelly I'm leaving for couple of days so maybe next week.


Any of those books exist in english?
regards

No idea. Maybe Czeczenia - miecz Proroka is translated since i remember hearing title in english somewhere and one of them (photo album is dual polish/english as I remember but it was long ago so maybe I am wrong.

Permski look at shadows on first one and on second one of course they are diferent size but some of building don't have them at all guess why??? since they are destroyed and only pile of rubble is visible, take a look also on streets and examine carefuly... My father is a mapmaker so I know how to find damage without any problem but maybe you can't and need help?. Maybe glases or someting since your sight seems to be bad...

[RomanS]

What is your point Marmot?

[Marmot1]

Look at right bottom corner of photos and you can see diference...

[RomanS]

Marmot, you are now scaring me

what am I suppose to look at?

The city was destroyed in the war

DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENS IN THE WAR???

where is the polish dictionary .....

[Chmiel]

yep, this is WAR. Both sides are far from "flower-power" bull****...
When the Chechens started to act like terrorists (hostages, kidnaping, suicide bombers) I've started to don't care of them...
I know about Russians acting like war criminals , too....but this is war. I belive in Chechen right to independence but I that corner of the earth , democracy and human rights, even in free, independent country is impossible for me. Too many bandits, clan wars...to many hate and violence.

[RomanS]

yep, this is WAR. Both sides are far from "flower-power" bull****...
When the Chechens started to act like terrorists (hostages, kidnaping, suicide bombers) I've started to don't care of them...
I know about Russians acting like war criminals , too....but this is war. I belive in Chechen right to independence but I that corner of the earth , democracy and human rights, even in free, independent country is impossible for me. Too many bandits, clan wars...to many hate and violence.

Untill there will be a VIDEO document that proves massive atrocities commited by Russians, I will treat every single bull**** comment "Russians acting like war criminals" with disrespect towards me, and my country and my people.

This can casue a big nasty flame war.
Thank you !

[Marmot1]

Well I only posted photos... you said that there is no diference so I wanted to show you that there is.. did I said that it was war crime or so??? No, I only posted it to show how damaged that city was... nothing more, no hiden intentions... But as I see you seek anti russian intentions in everything is it your obsesion???

[Catch22]

Hmm... I'm also bit puzzled - next time Marmot you'll surprise us with discovery that there are human casualties, rapes or atrocities at war?

I know that vast part of Grozny suffered during the both wars, some of it was razed to the ground. But...I always thought that happens in urban war - its no bloody trench WW I, where you can go back 30 km behind frontline and relax at some cabaret, in pleasant, tidy town before you'll get cut down by some Spandau fire during sensless bayonet attack :|

Enlighten me pls - whats your point with those maps? I dont think that Permskii was suggesting that their attack jets and artillery never made harm to Grozny or used smart bombs to prevent collateral damage ;)

Ah - and Permskii pls - we dont want to start that quarell again. I'll try to put this in a simpliest way - I dont think there are any planned acts of what we could call a war crime from russian side. But I dont think you'll tell me there are only heroes in VSR or MVD forces...its even statistically impossible. There are acts of bestiality in every army, at every war - just as there are acts of heroism, bravery. It seems Chechenya is one of the most brutal wars fought since Vietnam - so there's rather small chance that you'll persuade me that there are no behaviours that we could call a "war crime" on russian side. To be honest - after some of those f***ken films and photos that I've seen at this forum I can understand some ou your guys wanting to get revenge at all costs on Chechs. I despise such acts, but I understand them. And they'll most probably happen... C'mon I think we both know what would be our thoughts and intentions after we see our brothers in arms having the throats cut by some bastards. So don't feel offended - but noone can guarantee hounorable conduct of every man in any army in such a war.

Got me?

[RomanS]

Well I only posted photos... you said that there is no diference so I wanted to show you that there is.. did I said that it was war crime or so??? No, I only posted it to show how damaged that city was... nothing more, no hiden intentions... But as I see you seek anti russian intentions in everything is it your obsesion???

I only warn your type of crowd!

In real world away from internet, my friends always say.

Мы не минздрав, мы не предупреждаем

[RomanS]

Hmm... I'm also bit puzzled - next time Marmot you'll surprise us with discovery that there are human casualties, rapes or atrocities at war?

I know that vast part of Grozny suffered during the both wars, some of it was razed to the ground. But...I always thought that happens in urban war - its no bloody trench WW I, where you can go back 30 km behind frontline and relax at some cabaret, in pleasant, tidy town before you'll get cut down by some Spandau fire during sensless bayonet attack :|

Enlighten me pls - whats your point with those maps? I dont think that Permskii was suggesting that their attack jets and artillery never made harm to Grozny or used smart bombs to prevent collateral damage ;)

Ah - and Permskii pls - we dont want to start that quarell again. I'll try to put this in a simpliest way - I dont think there are any planned acts of what we could call a war crime from russian side. But I dont think you'll tell me there are only heroes in VSR or MVD forces...its even statistically impossible. There are acts of bestiality in every army, at every war - just as there are acts of heroism, bravery. It seems Chechenya is one of the most brutal wars fought since Vietnam - so there's rather small chance that you'll persuade me that there are no behaviours that we could call a "war crime" on russian side. To be honest - after some of those f***ken films and photos that I've seen at this forum I can understand some ou your guys wanting to get revenge at all costs on Chechs. I despise such acts, but I understand them. And they'll most probably happen... C'mon I think we both know what would be our thoughts and intentions after we see our brothers in arms having the throats cut by some bastards. So don't feel offended - but noone can guarantee hounorable conduct of every man in any army in such a war.

Got me?

understand, but don't have to agree

We jsut didn't ****in wake up one day, and started throwing darts at the map looking for some country to **** up.

It takes a match and gasoline to start a fire.

Research the reason why we had to send our pitbulls there.

The hungry, thirsty wolves didnt want to sit down at the table and talk.

Its ok, let us just evacuate Russian speaking crowd. How did that go?

Now lets add the icing on the cake. You crusify our headless soldiers in the windows, cut off their private part and rpg them to us during the first days of fighting - You will be ****in smacked.

[Backis]

understand, but don't have to agree

We jsut didn't f*** wake up one day, and started throwing darts at the map looking for some country to f*** up.


Could you give us your view/info on the dagestani incident leading up to the present hostilities?

[RomanS]

which one ?
KIZLYAR ?

[Backis]

which one ?
KIZLYAR ?

If there were several, your choice. This wasn't exactly widely covered over here (and wich pov books published here takes you can guess...).

However...

There were Chechen incursions into Dagestan reported before the start of the second Chechen War, with thousands of (civilan) casualties.

Quickly forgotten by newsrooms of course, since the Russians couldn't be morally justifed in invading, right. ;)

[RomanS]

what the **** are you talking about?

I can hardly understand.

Dagestan was invaded by Hatab and Basaev's forces. But before that, there was a wave of wahabi spreading in the area of Hasavurt and Mahachkala.

Chechens used it as a great reason to start the new mess. They couldnt go to Osetia since there weren't any "strugling" muslims to save from the Russian occupation.

what is your main question?

[hist2004]

PermskiiOMON,

Let him read the article I posted on page 2 of this thread, thanks for all the great photos you've added.

Regards & Thanks,
Hist2004

[RomanS]

I don't think he's gonna get it!

[Backis]

PermskiiOMON,

Let him read the article I posted on page 2 of this thread, thanks for all the great photos you've added.

Regards & Thanks,
Hist2004

Whoops, missed it. Thanks for the tip.

[Backis]

I don't think he's gonna get it!

You don't get what I get, get it? :roll:

[Backis]

PermskiiOMON,

Let him read the article I posted on page 2 of this thread, thanks for all the great photos you've added.

Regards & Thanks,
Hist2004

Probably surprises you that your article just about reflects my view of the situation...

I AM aware of the double standards applied by the West against Russia regarding the Chechen situation.


Quickly forgotten by newsrooms of course, since the Russians couldn't be morally justifed in invading, right.

This comment was about that.

Permski, perhaps I was so difficult to understand because you expected to read things into my text that wasn't there, bud...

[RomanS]

Thank you for the article Hist.

Very accurate and right to the point.

Where is the COME back from our European friends?

[jamesp]

There are acts of bestiality in every army,


hahahahahahaha

sorry.

In a wierd way I like looking at Chechnya pictures, really because it shows how ****ed up the world is, and how lucky I am. Powerful stuff.

[serbian boy]

Hey PermskiOMON, you guys did some good work In Chechnya, too bad the west didn't stay out of our INTERNAL buisness in Kosovo :(
And I like the after Russian bombarment picture of Grozny, you guys really ****ed that place up! :P
Anyway, I was gonna ask you, did you see or hear about any Serb or other Orthodox or Slavic brothers volunteering on Russian side in Chechnya because I read about it somewhere? :D
Thanks in advance!

[RomanS]

Hey PermskiOMON, you guys did some good work In Chechnya, too bad the west didn't stay out of our INTERNAL buisness in Kosovo :(
And I like the after Russian bombarment picture of Grozny, you guys really f*** that place up! :P
Anyway, I was gonna ask you, did you see or hear about any Serb or other Orthodox or Slavic brothers volunteering on Russian side in Chechnya because I read about it somewhere? :D
Thanks in advance!

My Serb brother,

Not just heard , i talked to one.

He was a student in Moscow State University. His family lived in Novi Pazar back in Serbia. He's been living in Moscow since the mid 80's. During the Sarajevo fighting, I think his father was captured by Horvati side, and killed him.

He became very good friend of mine, since we lived in the same neighborhood in Moscow. He always invited me to Novi Pazar many times. And he went back home every summer to visit his mom and his grandmother. I think later they moved to Ivangrad when the new conflict began in 99.

ANyways, he traveled back and fought the ****in Albanians with his friend, and met some Russians fighting on Serbian side. Most were VDV (not KFOR), ex -vdv, and some even from GRU.

I'm sure 16 OBR will have more info on his side about Russians (GRU) fighting next to Serbs against muslims.

When the second Chechen war started he actually returned to Moscow, with his Russian buddies and went with them to Dagestan-Chechnya border.

He was written as a contract based non-Russian born /Russian citizen. He quickly took the citizenship, and went to Mahachkala first, and to Botlih.
When the full scale operations against Chechen fighters began, they merged with Krasnodarskii OMON, and were helping them clean the Itum-Kali area.

He wrote to me last time in 2000, right after the Perm Omon tragedy (which is next month their 4th year aniversary), and he was saying that a lot more Serb brothers joined them hehehe.
I'm not sure if he was joking or serious. But my friends in higher agencies won't deny that Serbs helped us in some way or another.

Much respect bro!

[Kingpin]

About photos of Grozny destruction. I have two ones showed above in incredibly high resolution. And on them destruction of central part of city can be clearly seen. But also we can see on them that other parts of city mostly survived without heavy destruction.

[Kingpin]

Good song.
Grab your copy until it wasn't deleted (33 mb, in russian)

http://forum.vif2.ru:2003/nvk/forum/files/Kingpin/Lube_-_Soldat.avi

[RomanS]

What would people be more interested in seing here?
This way I can save our precious space, and satisfy a good crowd???

First Chechen War
Second Chechen War
Spetsnaz
Infantry

would be helpful to know your tastes and requests.


Thanks all

[Javehn]

Spets

[Herrmannek]

What would people be more interested in seing here?
This way I can save our precious space, and satisfy a good crowd???

First Chechen War
Second Chechen War
Spetsnaz
Infantry

would be helpful to know your tastes and requests.


Thanks all

Some real battle scenes...so we can discuss about those little stupid things like advancing, taking cover, tactics, errors...and such...eventualy we are just bunch of wannabes and warm chair commandos....

[Dennis G]

I want to see them all. But if I had to chose--Infantry & Spetsnaz

[anonymous individual]

What would people be more interested in seing here?
This way I can save our precious space, and satisfy a good crowd???

First Chechen War
Second Chechen War
Spetsnaz
Infantry

would be helpful to know your tastes and requests.


Thanks all

Some real battle scenes...so we can discuss about those little stupid things like advancing, taking cover, tactics, errors...and such...eventualy we are just bunch of wannabes and warm chair commandos....

yeah

BTW If there is any graphic materials post them too. just make sure to add a warming sign for others (and maybe for myself). ;)

[serbian boy]

Hey thanks permskii, that really made my my day. :D :hug:

[muede]

PermskiiOMON, do you still got the pics? Only one still working, and i would love to have em.... or anybody that has em.. please, RESHARE! :)

[Dennis G]

yes please share, Always great photos